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- [00:00]
A
Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more@windows.com studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc. Welcome back all you listeners to the Bookcase with Kate and Charlie. We have reached the half year point and that means Kate gibson, Ta da.
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B
I don't know. I'm a half a century old. I'm 50 and one week old. I turned 50 last week and my father and I were talking about, well, halfway points and we saw that the New York Times had come out with their list of the best of the year so far. So we figured we should do our favorites of the year so far with your newly 50 years and one week old co host, Kate. Hello.
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A
Well, that's impossible because that means you had to have been born when I was 12.
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B
Yeah, sure, you keep telling yourself that.
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A
Anyway, it is halfway through the year and we want to remind you of all the books we've had an incredible six months, an incredible, I mean, just the I'm going to leave some people out and I do that with such regret. But we've had Ann Patchett and Elizabeth Strout and Tana French and Jenny Lawson, Louise Erdrich, Anna Quinlan, Tahari Jones Bell Burden, Jesmyn Ward. I'm leaving people out that we've had and I should remind people the way we approach this, which is that we each read different books and then if we see one that we think would be great for the show, we tell the other one to read it. We but there's a one house veto and if the other person doesn't like it, it doesn't make it so. There really isn't a book that we have done that we couldn't fully recommend
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B
that both of us couldn't fully recommend. Although we should add a caveat to that. Sometimes we use my mom as a tiebreaker.
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A
Yes.
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B
Like sometimes if I like it and dad doesn't like it as much or if I, you know, or vice versa, mom takes a look at it and goes, yes, it's a go or no, it's not.
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A
That's right. She's a tiebreaker. And if one of us says no, no, absolutely not, then it's gone. But if one of us says yes, and the other one says, maybe then Kate's mom and my wife Arlene becomes the.
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B
Has to stop what she's reading, becomes the tiebreaker, what she's reading, and pick up the tiebreaker.
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A
That's right.
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B
She does.
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C
She.
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B
She's sort of the unofficial employee of the bookcase. So. Thank you, Mom.
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A
She's the unofficial employee. I'm the unofficial employee.
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D
Right.
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A
Anyway, we have four that we want to mention, and we've gone sort of as far back in the six months as we can because maybe you need to be reminded of those. Just a couple of weeks ago, we did Ann Patchett. Her new book, Whistler and I would love anything Ann Patchett wrote. And this is very good. This is Whistler is the name of the book. So we're just going to give you a short bit of our interview with Anne because it was on just a couple of weeks ago. Whistler is the book. It is about a woman who is reunited through strange circumstances with a man who had been her stepfather when she was very young. For just a year, a couple years, I think, he was her stepfather. And they were in a very serious automobile accident together. And we talked to Ann Patchett about Whistler.
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E
Primacy in my mind, again, was just, how much love can I get into this book? But I'll. And I don't know.
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F
Is that a theme?
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E
I don't know. But I'll tell you two things.
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A
What I mean by a theme is what you come away with thinking about,
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E
okay, then love, then people's ability to be kind and supportive of one another, which is something that I feel is often underrepresented in literary fiction. But two things. One is, I really do believe that if a child has one person in her life who believes in her and sees her for who she is, even if it's for a short time, even if it's not a primary person in your childhood, that love can change your entire life. That's one. The second thing is, I have no idea where I heard this or read this, but at some point years ago, I heard or read something that said, the deepest and greatest childhood memories contain three things. This was somebody who had done this giant study of childhood memories, like seminal joyful childhood memories. Three things. An element of danger, the presence of the father, and fried food. I wish to God I knew. Maybe somebody will hear this and say, yes, I wrote that study. Because that also was something that really got me going. And it's so funny how you can hear things. They lodge in your brain and then think, wait, I Want to write a story about danger, a father, and fried food and. I did.
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B
You did? You did. Did you get halfway through and you're like, oh, I need some chicken nuggets in there?
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D
I know.
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E
I never forgot about the chicken nuggets.
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A
I'm always struck by the fact that love is a hard thing to write about.
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E
It is. It is. Thank you for saying that. And I think not enough people write about it. And especially good love and enduring love and the love that we hopefully find in our lives and wish for the people that we love. But, yeah, you don't see it a lot in books.
- [06:08]
B
I love this book so much because to me, too, it's also about revisiting your past and even past that you're angry about. And then you start to learn what everybody's role was and how everybody got hurt in this situation and how you have to give everybody grace. There were so many different themes to this book, and I loved it. It's Ann Patchett. Magic and Whistler does not disappoint. I thought it was fantastic. Plus, it has some wonderful New York City scenes, right?
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A
It does.
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B
That are terrific.
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A
It does. And as we said there in that clip, it's about love. I think she's a wonderful sentimentalist at heart. It's about love, and it's about the fact that this young woman really loved the stepfather, and then he disappeared from her life, and she was glad to have him come back. And I was worried it was going to get icky, that there was something that was going to happen between stepdaughter. It never does. It never does.
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B
It's just. No, because you can trust it. I mean, Ann Patchett is one of those great writers that you can trust. You know, you get on the ride, you pull down the seatbelt, and you go for. You know, you go for whatever ride she wants to take you on. And it's always rewarding. We go from a great writer in Ann Patchett to a great Southern novel. Tayari Jones wrote Kin this year, which I think will go down in the pantheon in the canon of Southern literature as one of the great Southern books. I should have you set up the clip because I really picked the clip from this show because you liked it so much that she was talking about how you build fiction.
- [07:32]
A
Yes. Well, I think sometimes you read a book and you think, gee, that was a lovely book, and I really enjoyed it. And. And sometimes you'll put a book down and you'll think, that was great literature. And both of us, when we decided that we Wanted to do this six month show of the best of. From the past six months. Both of us right away said to Ari Jones and Kin, it is. It's a terrific book. And it's a.
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D
It is.
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A
It's a terrific. Well, you should explain the clip because you picked it out.
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B
I love this year because dad's gotten sort of fascinated with interrogating authors about how their characters could possibly surprise them when they exist only in the author's mind. It's just. He keeps going. How can anybody surprise you? They're in your head when you're. You go where, you know, they. They go where you tell them to go. They do what you tell them to do. So he's been sort of interrogating authors about that. And I thought of all the authors he has interrogated about this. Explain yourself to me. Tyra Jones did, did the best job, I think, of explaining how fiction is built and how it takes you in directions that surprise you. So here is the great Tayari Jones talking about how she builds fiction and how she did it in the great novel of 2026. Kin.
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A
This continues to amaze me when authors say to me, the character surprises me because, darn it, the character is you. You're creating it. You're the person who is, as Sue Miller said, all my characters are my employees. Well, you're the person creating the character. So when it goes off in some direction you don't expect, you're the one who's going off in that direction.
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D
Well, they may be your employees, but I think about the people whose employee I have been. They're not in charge of me, they just pay me. But I think that the best way I can explain this is. Have you ever told a lie? Yes.
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A
You have? Never.
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D
And when you're telling the lie, you tell the general lie. You know, the dog ate my homework or whatever, and. And then you embroider. It was a big dog. It had on a collar. And I couldn't believe it ate my homework because I had just seen it eat a bowl of kibble that belonged to the poodle around the corner. And the poodle was mad. You see, it just builds as you go. And you can even see it with your students. If you have them, they'll be lying to you, right? They'll be like all into it. The lie is lying, right? Like the lie is swinging. And they can tell when they've taken the lie someplace it doesn't make sense and they have to back it up and they go another direction. They did not plan that Lie. They're following that lie. And in many ways, fiction is the lie. You're making it up as you go. And the details you provided build on for other details. So like when I say the dog ate the kibble that was meant for the poodle around the corner, then that opens my mind up right now to say, well, who owned the poodle around the corner? I was surprised that the poodle around the corner belonged to a very large man. It was such a small dog. But my mother said when his wife left him, the only thing she left him with was that little dog. So. So he cares for it. And he will not let another woman in that house because he thinks she might mistreat the dog. You see, I just came up with that, and that's how fiction works.
- [10:37]
B
That was a little terrifying in a way. So you wanna sit down? You think when these characters start talking to you, you think, okay, I'm not a historical novelist, so they're probably gonna be the parents. When did these two stories become first person for you? Like, did you start by writing them with the third person and you were just writing the story and then you decided, no, I'm of split it into two perspectives and make it first person. Like, what was that process like for you?
- [11:03]
D
It was. It was originally Vernice's first person. I like first person. I said I like first people. I like first person. I enjoy voice sometimes. I switch it up sometimes just to show that I can. But I. Because I do believe the most radical thing you can do in a story is change point of view. So when I decided to, I only decide to use a second point of view if there is something I want to know that the original point of view cannot reveal. And I will try every way I can to see if I can make it work with the point of view I have. One of the things I tell my students is that every story or novel has to be at a certain budget. You have a budget, and different things you choose to do cost money out of your budget. Like, every new character costs you money out of your budget. So you have to decide, is this, can I use my existing characters, or do I need to hire another character? Hmm. And now, if your story is under budget, it's boring. You don't have enough characters or not doing enough stuff. Like, coincidences are expensive. That's why you can't have too many. But. But if your story is over budget, if you have too many coincidences, too many points of view, too many settings, scenes, it's over budget. And it's too busy and the reader can't keep up. So switching point of view is expensive. And I only do if it is 100% necessary.
- [12:23]
A
Sometimes when you're reading a book, you're reading it because you enjoy it and it's going along and you're having fun and the characters are interesting. And sometimes you read a book and think, this is literature. This is really good literature. And when I'm in a book like that, and I was with Kin, I think about the revision process. Every sentence in this book, it seems to me, has a richness to it. When I was reading this, I would often go back and reread a sentence and then stop and put the book down because the sentence needed to be thought about for some period of time. And I'm wondering, when you do revisions, is it really granular? And are you working on it sentence by sentence and not satisfied until you have that sentence crafted in the way you want it?
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D
I want my sentences to be right. I want them to be right. And I want them to be. I want my sentences to be interesting. I like it because here's the thing with this story, Ken. It's a very kind of classic story. It's almost like, you know, when you go to a restaurant and you order the creme brulee. Creme brulee is basic dessert, but a good chef can make a spectacular creme brulee, even though it's one of the most basic desserts. Or the yellow cake with the chocolate frosting, very basic. But a good pastry chef can show out with that dessert. This is a very, very classic story. Two friends, lives diverge, but their friendship stays intact. And there's a tragedy. Very basic story. So if you're going to have. If you're not going to show off with plot, you have to make it happen with sentence.
- [14:03]
A
Next up, Allegra Goodman, who has written a wonderful book. It is called it's not About Us, but it is about the Rubenstein family in all of its glory. Lots of generations, lots of people, lots of different wings of the family. I went at this with trepidation because when you write about a family with this many characters, I think there's about 20 that we get to know. I thought, I'm going to have trouble keeping them straight. No problem. And it's a very, very funny book with parts of family relationships that you will relate to. And it is a family with all of its idiosyncrasies and all of its rivalries and all of its peculiarities that's probably redundant with idiosyncrasies, isn't it?
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B
Anyway, she talked a little bit in our interview about the fact that some of these were short stories in. In great short story magazines like the New Yorker. And she would get notes from readers saying, what happened to Deborah, what happened to Lily, what's going on with Richard? And so she would sort of extend these stories and eventually they wove themselves into this fabulous, funny, interesting book. In some ways, it reminded me of the conversations we've had with Elizabeth Strout, who's so fascinated with Lucy Barton and Olive Kittredge, she can't put them down. And that kind of struck me as how Allegra Goodman wrote the Rubensteins. It was just she couldn't really put them down. She got sort of fascinated with this story and that story, and I love that because it's ultimate reader satisfaction. She gives us what we all want in this book.
- [15:33]
A
I love the family. There's all kinds of passive aggressive relationships in the family, and yet they so obviously love one another. The book is. It's not about us. And here's a little bit of our conversation with Allegra Goodman.
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F
The Rubensteins, I would describe them as, you know, good people who are flawed, people who are funny, people who fight, who love each other and squabble and are trying to raise their children and don't listen to them. They're actually a lot like many of us. You know, I would describe them as real. That's how they seemed to me as I was writing them.
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B
Is there a story that, for you, is the heart of this book? Like, is there a story that you believe is the touchstone for the book?
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F
Well, to use a different metaphor, I think of the book as like a tree. So the first story, the apple cake story, which is sort of the beginning and the nucleus of the book is like the trunk of the tree. And then I wrote that first, and then all the other branches sprouted from there.
- [16:39]
B
So did you know when you wrote the Apple Cake, did you think, okay, these are the roots of my tree and I have to grow it from here? And did you know how you were gonna grow it at the very beginning?
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F
I just wanted to explore the lives of each of the characters, each of the family members who gather in that story, and sort of take the reader with me along each branch. And I did not, at the very beginning, have an endpoint in mind, but I would say it evolved organically. Like, I did grow it like a tree.
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A
Katie and I talked as we were reading about the fact that there are wonderful little vignettes through it which basically are. You could characterize them as short stories, but to say somebody wrote a short story book is kind of a kiss of death in terms of sales.
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B
Although we love them.
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A
We love them. But did you have a sense of how this was all going to come together and how you would keep it from being a book of short stories as opposed to a novel?
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F
I really think of it as a serial novel. You can read it from beginning to end like a novel and it has a narrative arc to it. So, you know, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And so as you read each, each chapter builds on the last. And I was also publishing these stories as I went in magazines, especially the New Yorker. And so I really think it's the closest I will come to writing a serial novel like the 19th century authors did.
- [18:04]
A
And you start it with a Family feud. Yes, that this is a spoiler, but it doesn't get resolved. It's still the family Feud. And I wondered about your decision making as to leave it.
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B
And selfishly I was hoping that the reason that you left it was because there's going to be more of the Ruby. But I could be wrong.
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F
Well, I think that to me, again, they are real people. You know, there are no heroes and. Or villains in this book. There's no, you know, one final, you know, fight one last battle, as it were. These are people who are very. Who are alive to me and I wanted to show them as alive and alive means that they keep growing and they keep. The children are going to get older and the. And the parents are also going to get older and they're going to change in many ways. And in many ways they're not going to change. And there's going to be no sentimental sort of tying up with a ribbon in this family. But you are so right. They love each other desperately. At the same time, to me, that's what's so beautiful and so tragic and so funny, you know, about all of us.
- [19:15]
B
So we've got all these sort of regional, fantastic, local color authors. Tayari Jones with a great southern book. Allegra Goodman with a fantastic epic of a Jewish family. I call that epic. But even though the stories are sweet and funny and anyway, and then we go to the amazing country of Ireland, to the great Tana French, whose new book the Keeper wraps up. And I'm sorry if it is wrapped up. Tana French, if you're listening, I'll take another Cal Hooper book in a minute. But I believe it wraps up the Kal Hooper series. And what an amazing way to wrap it up. These books are this incredible crossover mysteries that take place in rural Ireland. They also smack of the American Western. She said she was inspired by lonesome dove, Larry McMurtry, an author that she came across late in life. These are really amazing books and boy, the mystery is great. But she doesn't shirk on the writing. She is a brilliant writer.
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A
First of all, the fact that she is, she's Irish and her fascination is with Western Ireland, which still in my imagination is this wonderful, rural, beautiful, beautiful part of the world. But there's subtext to everything in Western Ireland and she found that subtext to be. And the stories that she's written to be very similar to American Westerns. As you point out, she sees Western Ireland and the American Western novel to have similar antecedents. So we talked about that and we felt we had to include a mystery. I mean, you can't do a best of for six months and not include a mystery. So again, the name of the novel is the Keeper. And Tana French, the author you've written in this Cal Hooper Series 3 Books about a small Western Ireland town, Ardna Kelty, on its surface, so simple and so inviting and as Americans picture it, rural and tranquil. But there is so much going on under the surface.
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C
Oh yeah.
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A
Is that your invention or is that, do you think true of towns in Western Ireland?
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C
Oh, I think it's definitely true. It's one of the things that fascinates me about tight knit places with a lot of history because I don't come from anything like that. Like I grew up moving around all over the place. My parents have like three, four cultures between them and so I don't have any experience of that kind of stability of that kind of rooted place. So to me it's fascinating the intricacy of places like that, where they look to an outsider, really straightforward, really simple. But the more you know them, the longer you're there, the more you realize that the tangles go deeper than they ever could otherwise because they go back centuries, because people have known each other for centuries. Your relationship with the neighbor isn't just based on, you know, the three years you've been living next door to each other. It's based on something your granny said to her granddad in 1962 and that is still an undercurrent in your relationship.
- [22:10]
B
The last time that we talked to you, my dad quoted you back to me this morning that it was, it's Irish software and Western hardware. And I, I read this book through that lens and it was like to me the perfect marriage of a western and Western Ireland. So is this in your mind, the most western of the Kal Hooper series? I mean, I count posses and bar fights and you know, the old woman in the rocking chair keeping nigh in town and everybody taking, you know. So I mean in your mind is this the most western of the Kal Hoover states?
- [22:41]
C
Yeah, you've got the bad sheriff who needs something to be done about him and his authority. I kind of feel like all of them are to an extent. But this one I think may be more deeply western toned because so many western series have a book about the death of the west in there. And that to me was something that resonated really well with the west of Ireland right now because there's, there's a way of life under threat. You know, farmers are finding it harder
- [23:04]
D
and harder to stay afloat.
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C
You've got young people emigrating because they can't afford housing and they can't compete against mega farms. Schools closing because there aren't enough kids. And I just thought that resonated in a really depressing way with those Death of the west novels that you get.
- [23:24]
B
If you read the Keeper again, you'll see how fascinated she is by sort of rural versus urban dynamics. And I think in some ways she captures rural versus urban dynamics in Ireland, in the US In, I mean my guess is there's no place it doesn't apply to. It's really, it's, it's, it's about the darkness of rural life, I think. And it's just a beautiful book.
- [23:45]
A
So what kills me as I tried to make reference to at the beginning is we've left out some books that I just loved the new Elizabeth Strout. I love the new Jenny Lawson which is a self help book of all things. I loved Louise Erdrich's short stories, the
- [23:58]
B
book of essays by Jesmyn Ward.
- [24:00]
A
Jesmyn Ward, who's twice won the American Book Award and a wonderful series of essays which are really important. Anna Quinlan's new novel is, is great. I left out Martha Raddus's book which I thought was wonderful about military heroes that she has run across. Not your typical military heroes. So anyway, we, we picked out those four. If, if you haven't read the four, go back and start with that and then let us know and we'll give you the other books.
- [24:29]
B
Yeah, we'll give you the other ones too, regretfully. Yeah.
- [24:31]
A
Yep. So we're going to take a break. We'll let you know who pays for a little bit of this podcast and then we got some notes from listeners about we enjoy when you do rapid fire questions for the authors. Why don't you give rapid fire to each other? And so we're going to do that after this break.
- [24:50]
D
Foreign.
- [24:55]
B
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- [25:28]
D
Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe?
- [25:30]
B
Or white chocolate mocha?
- [25:32]
D
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- [25:35]
B
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- [26:14]
A
So now we've got some rapid fire questions for each other. We've done some questions multiple times for various authors. I tried to come up with some that were original and also not necessarily ones that would be about Kate's reading habits. I know those pretty well. But I thought questions would show you a little bit about this daughter about whom I am so crazy that I love very much. So why don't you give me yours and I'll show you mine.
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B
Oh God, I'm not even going there. It's so horrible. Okay, rapid fire questions for Charles Gibson. Guest you were most excited about.
- [26:52]
A
Oh, Ann Patchett, Niall Williams, John Irving. Those three.
- [26:57]
B
Okay. Guest with whom you fell the most in love.
- [27:00]
A
No, it's a long list, Kate. It's a long, long list.
- [27:06]
F
I know.
- [27:07]
A
I love, well, Ann Patchett. Of course. I loved Mary Laura Philpott who wrote two very, very funny books and has and hasn't written anything recently. I just thought she was wonderful. We had on two librarians.
- [27:21]
B
Oh yeah.
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A
Who have challenged their communities that have tried to ban books have banned books in their areas and how difficult that is for a librarian. I just thought what they were doing in terms of resisting banned books, I thought was. Was really wonderful.
- [27:38]
B
If you haven't had a chance to see the movie, the movie is called the Librarians, and it's a PBS independent lens series. And I highly recommend to somebody who just got her master's in library science, you check it out. What's going on in libraries across this country is nefarious, and we need to protect our librarians and our public institutions of reading.
- [27:55]
A
Yep, Yep. I thought what they were doing is terrific, but. But I fall in love with so many writers. It's a list longer than when we could do in rapid fire.
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B
Yes, he fell in love with Jesmyn Ward, too. My mom is a very patient lady. My mom is a very patient lady.
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A
Tayari Jones. Tayari Jones, for sure. The list goes on and on and on, but there's nothing more that I admire more than the craft of writing and novelists who can bring me in and who can. First of all, I learn so much from novels. And secondly, I just enjoy being in their world for 300, 400 pages.
- [28:31]
B
Yeah. I always think a great novel or a great book is one where when you finish it, you think, boy, I wish I could talk to the writer for a half an hour about why they did what they did.
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A
And we get to do it.
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B
And we get to do it. And again, we had this great pinch me moment this year where we literally threw from Ann Patchett to more of our conversation with Jesmyn Ward. I mean, is that awesome or what? Okay, your favorite word in the English language.
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A
Hmm. Happiness.
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B
Your favorite aspect of working with your daughter.
- [28:57]
A
Oh, this is something that I hadn't expected that would come to me in retirement. And Kate called me up and said, we should do this podcast together. And it has been such a joy to work with one of your children. And somebody who is in charge of podcasts since we started doing this has said they've gotten a bunch of people who have called and said, I'd like to do something with one of my children. It's a joy. It really is a joy. We talk about books. We talk on the phone five or six times a day, and it. Is it saying too much that it's brought us closer together? I think. And if you have as much respect for one of your children as I have for Kate, in some respects, in many respects, even more than books, Kate is my hero.
- [29:35]
B
Aw, that's so nice. Least favorite aspect of working with your daughter,
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D
she.
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A
She feels it's her life's mission to bring me down to size. Dad, you're six feet tall, and I'm going to make you four foot two. And she knows all the buttons to push. And she does it with joy. Joy. And with an impish grin on her face.
- [30:05]
B
Impish. Anybody out there you want to say hi to?
- [30:08]
A
Isn't that an interesting question? I would want to say to all everyone who's trying to write a novel. You know, so many of the people we've talked to have said that the best piece of advice they've gotten is stick with it. Don't. Don't give it up. If you have something of a gift, follow through on it. And don't take all those rejection notices as being so personally hurtful. Keep doing it. And so I take my hat off to anybody who's trying to write fiction or nonfiction or poetry. Or poetry. But I have great admiration for all of you.
- [30:44]
B
Your least favorite thing about doing the Buddhaes.
- [30:47]
A
It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work.
- [30:50]
B
Ooh, I would have thought you were going to say technology. I got the answer that totally wrong.
- [30:55]
A
No, it's a lot of work, the technology. I admit I don't know anything about how to do it. Luckily, we have Tom Butler, who keeps us straight. But it's hard because I. You know, you get into a novel and you think, we're not gonna be able to do this novel. I don't love it, but I wanna finish it. So somebody keeps saying to me, you guys do so much reading. We do. We really do. And then I get behind and it. It preys on me.
- [31:19]
B
I know, it drives me crazy. But again, I also too know that, like, anytime a pop culture conversation comes up at the dinner table, I'm not gonna be able to participate. Have you watched? No. Have you seen. No, I haven't watched it. I haven't seen it. I may have read it. Like, that's all I can contribute. I can't. Last question. If you could give the Charles Gibson who began this podcast one piece of advice.
- [31:42]
A
Oh, don't hesitate. Do it. And do it with Kate, because it's going to be fun and she's going to make you laugh. Kate, for, as she said, 50 years, has made me laugh, and I love it when she does.
- [31:54]
B
Oh, wow. Well, that was not as sarcastic as I thought it was going to be. But those are my rapid fire questions.
- [32:00]
A
When you suck me into saying nice things about you, isn't that great?
- [32:04]
B
Isn't that great.
- [32:06]
A
That was your ulterior motive for Kate Gibson. Some rapid fire, best flavor of ice cream.
- [32:11]
D
Ooh.
- [32:12]
B
Right now I'm into cookies and cream book.
- [32:14]
A
You feel guilty for not having read.
- [32:16]
B
Oh, the Power Broker. It sits on my. My shelf and it mocks me. I also have never. Oh, this is terrible. I've never read the Holy Bible. Sorry, guys. I should. I haven't.
- [32:29]
A
Best TV show ever.
- [32:30]
E
Ooh.
- [32:32]
D
Ooh.
- [32:33]
B
I think probably right now. I don't know if this'll last my whole life. I think it would probably now be the Sopranos. I think James Gandolfini was the first person in my generation to make being bad so compulsively watchable and so compulsively. I don't know. You empathized for this man who was doing horrible things. And I think that was James Gandolfini's genius. And I loved the show.
- [32:56]
C
Hmm.
- [32:58]
A
Your biggest pet peeve.
- [32:59]
B
Oh. Photographs of kids where they make them dress up like adults.
- [33:03]
A
Hmm.
- [33:04]
D
I hate that.
- [33:05]
B
I hate that. The colorized photos where the kids, like, the. Gather kids in, like, a top hat giving the other kid a rose. Just don't. Don't pimp your kids like that. Let them be kids.
- [33:14]
D
Ew.
- [33:14]
A
Most handsome actor ever. Now or ever.
- [33:18]
D
Oh,
- [33:21]
A
wow.
- [33:22]
B
I don't know. I have weird taste. I like funny. I like funny.
- [33:27]
A
So, most handsome actor now or ever.
- [33:31]
B
I don't know. Michael Jordan of Sinners is probably right up there on my list right now.
- [33:35]
A
Whoa. High heels. Flats or sneakers?
- [33:38]
B
High heels.
- [33:39]
A
Movie you've seen most often.
- [33:41]
B
All About Eve with Bette Davis.
- [33:43]
A
Person whose biography you'd most like to read and haven't yet.
- [33:47]
B
Oh, by the way, Bette Davis. You should just, you know, just go check. If you haven't seen All About Eve, trust me, every time you see it, there's something funny. Somebody's bio that I haven't read yet
- [33:56]
A
that I want something funny in All About Eve.
- [33:59]
D
Yes.
- [33:59]
B
Oh, my God. The dialogue is hilarious. At one point, Addison DeWitt says to Bette Davis, margot, you made an unbelievable Peter Pan. You must remember to play it again sometime. I mean, that's brilliant. Let's see.
- [34:13]
A
Person whose biography you'd most like but haven't.
- [34:16]
B
Boy, you know, I would love to read the bio of people that I loved that are no longer with us, whose lives I don't know a lot about, like, the ordinary people in my life that were my heroes. Robert Pridham, who was a teacher of mine at Kempley School. Dr. Jane Cole, who was a teacher of Mine at Kempley School. I'd love to read their bios. Charles Moskos, who was one of my professors at Northwestern University, I'd love to read a bio of him. Just people that I admired and loved learning from. I'd love to learn more about what got them in the classroom.
- [34:46]
A
A person's life is not complete if they haven't read.
- [34:51]
B
Oh, I think my favorite book, which is A Prayer for Owen Meaney by John Irving. That's my all time favorite book. I reread it every few years and I think it reminds me about how to be a good person.
- [35:02]
A
Godfather one or two?
- [35:03]
B
Two. Two. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. And amc, if you're out there, if there's any executive at amc, stop doing the thing where you edit one and two together and do them in chronological order. Stop it. The whole point of two is the order in which it is shot. The whole point is that Michael is becoming his father while we're watching his father become his father. That's the whole point of the parallel. That's why the scene at the end where they're with the, with the, with the military birthday is so brilliant. Stop doing that. Amc. It ruins them.
- [35:32]
A
Okay, I asked you, what's your pet peeve? It may be people, people who, that's
- [35:37]
B
also a pet peeve of mine. People who edit the Godfathers together in chronological order and present them in like a four hour trope.
- [35:45]
A
An instant reaction. The best moment of your life so far.
- [35:48]
B
Oh, the birth of my kids. By far the birth of my kids. Now, David Sedaris wrote me a thank you note in which, in which he calls me very funny. That was right up there. But meeting my kids, like holding my kids and, and looking at them and they look back at you and somehow they just know who you are and, and they tell you who you are. And I, I, Yeah.
- [36:08]
A
A piece of advice you would give yourself before you started this podcast. And no fair saying, don't do it.
- [36:17]
B
Run. Run as fast as you can and keep running. No, I would say that, like, if there's any way that you could do the show without paying attention to whether or not it is successful because it is the best job that you will ever have. It is the most fun in a job you will ever have. And it is the best experience you will ever have. And the experience is not about where we are in the ratings and whether or not we're beating Terry Gross and all of that. None of that matters. None of that. We never will, by the way. But none of that matters.
- [36:48]
A
Not that you're competitive.
- [36:50]
B
No. But really, this is about doing something with my dad. And I get to read for a living. And I get to have these pinch me moments where I get to listen to James McBride, read poetry or throw to Jessamyn Ward from Ann Patchett, or listen to Tommy Orange and Kaveh Akbar talk about their friendship and how it has made their writing better. I mean, it's my dream job. So just sit back and enjoy the ride as much as you can. And try not to bring the anxiety and stress that you bring to everything.
- [37:19]
A
Okay. So much for rapid fire.
- [37:21]
B
So much chatty.
- [37:22]
D
Chatty.
- [37:23]
A
We weren't too rapid fire. Anyway, we'll bring you up to date night. We don't change it every week, so we'll tell you again. The people who make this podcast, do
- [37:31]
B
we have a coda? No, we don't have a coda, damn it.
- [37:34]
A
No.
- [37:34]
B
Okay.
- [37:35]
F
All right.
- [37:36]
A
Our coda is we don't have a coda, damn it.
- [37:38]
B
Oh. See you next week. Our coda is we don't have a coda, dammit. And we'll see you next week where we'll be back with an author and a bookstore. And I don't know, I mean, since we closed with these sort of feelings that we have about the podcast, I think it's worth thanking all of you guys who tune in. Thanks, mom, for tuning in on Thursdays and listening to us and for allowing this journey. I mean, it is you that makes the journey possible. And I don't know that any of you care that you've given me my dream job, but I'm really thankful for it. And so thank you for that. And please, if you get a chance to recommend us to somebody else or you want to leave a review for us, that always helps. We would love that as well. So a reminder about the folks who make our podcast possible. And then absolutely no coda, dammit.
- [38:20]
A
And. And tune in again next week where you'll find one more way that Kate can throw me under the bus.
- [38:27]
B
The book Case with Kate and Charlie Gibson is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions. Our executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg, Arielle Chester at Good Morning America, and Josh Cohan from ABC Audio. Follow the bookcase wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to listen, rate, and review. If you'd like to find any of the books mentioned in this episode, we have them linked in the episode description.
- [38:58]
A
To kids, summer isn't just time off.
- [39:00]
B
It's time building confidence and curiosity. But when school meals pause, millions of
- [39:05]
A
children lose the food they count on. Your support helps the Feeding America Network nourish every child's potential.
- [39:11]
B
Give now@feedingamerica.org summerhunger.