Date on the Line

Summary

The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Episode: "Date on the Line" – April 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Book Lisp finds Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna in true form: playfully chaotic, locked into familiar banter, and veering off course in hilarious and sincere directions. While the nominal theme is their ongoing April book club pick—Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier—they spend much of the episode discussing travel adventures, relationship trust, the gritty details of Seattle geography, and an in-depth true crime tangent. The official “spoiler” discussion around the book is held off until the fourth week, so listeners get plenty of tangential book-inspired life talk—with laughs and some thoughtful moments of reflection on relationships, trust, and the current state of airline travel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Office, Tour Life & 90s Jams

• Sarah’s office update (00:25–01:49): Jon and Sarah chat about their podcast setup—a new desk arrangement, book display, and the beloved neon sign’s displacement.
• On tour and gratitude (02:19–03:04): Sarah thanks Book Lisp listeners for coming out to her shows, humorously “thanking in advance from the past.”
• Nostalgic music detour (03:30–05:02): Sarah and Jon reminisce about 90s bands (Little Texas, Matchbox 20), connecting music to memories. “Every time over the past couple years, when I hear a good 90s jam that I forgot about, I'm like, we had some good music.” — Sarah (04:20)

Book Club Logistics: Upcoming Reads & Patreon

• Next month’s pick (06:03):
  • Jon’s May book is Summer Romance by Annabelle Monaghan, a “classic, feel-good beach read.”
  • “It's a very me pick. You know where it's going, you know where it ends. But it's going to be fun getting there.” — Jon (06:13)
• Patreon short stories (06:31):
  • April’s Patreon pick: If He Finds Us by Daniel Hurst. Sarah praises the discovery of new authors through short stories.
• On favorite books from the podcast so far (09:02):
  • Jon cites 28 Summers by Elin Hilderbrand.
  • Both hosts appreciate how the book club introduced them to each other's genres—romantic beach reads for Sarah, darker thrillers for Jon.
  • “It's a nice balance to my murder.” — Sarah (10:10)
• Patreon perks & drink tickets giveaway (08:35, 19:31):
  • Listeners are invited to join Patreon for additional content.
  • Sarah notes that listeners can DM for unused airline drink vouchers:
    “Everyone needs a cocktail up in the air right now. It's tough out there.” — Sarah (19:58)

Main Book Talk: Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier (No Spoilers)

• Preface and structure (12:36): Book spoilers are always saved for the last week, but this week’s chat explores book-inspired topics—especially relationship trust and secrets.
• Genres and origins (10:23–12:24): Sarah explains the darker tone of her pick (child kidnapping) and her love of psychological thrillers, crediting Tess Gerritsen’s The Surgeon as an early influence.

Seattle as a Character

• Pike Place Market debate (20:00–22:17):
  • Jon debunks the myth that locals never go to Pike Place Market.
    • “Locals never go on that main strip.” But, he says, there are “secret” local spots nearby.
• SODO definition debate (22:24–23:52):
  • Jon clarifies SODO means "south of the Dome" to locals—not “south downtown,” as described in the book.
  • “I don't think a local would ever refer to SODO as south Downtown.” — Jon (23:52)
  • Seattle listeners are urged to weigh in.

Relationship Themes: Trust, Surveillance, and Tech

• The “Shadow” app and relationship snooping (25:27–30:23):
  • In Little Secrets, a character uses a fictional “Shadow app” to intercept a partner’s texts.
  • Sarah and Jon debate whether they’d want that capability:
    • “If I had to read every message from Feels in the Hot Tub, I would kill myself.” — Jon (26:26)
    • They agree: Once the trust is broken, more detail only hurts.
    • “Once I know what's going on, I don't need the nitty gritty details... I'm not going to keep on hurting myself more.” — Jon (27:51)
    • Sarah quips about snooping:
      “If I'm being lied to and I need to prove it...here's the proof. But I don't need to then go see what's been doing before that.” (28:25)
• Modern tracking apps (30:58–33:06):
  • Discussion of real-life tracking: family location sharing (Life360, Find My iPhone).
  • Sarah references her friend Jackie’s Pacific Trail hike and how adventure travelers use tech for safety.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “This is your favorite [book]. Can't remember the fucking title.” — Sarah, razzing Jon over “28 Summers” (09:17)
• “I trust you beyond 100%. But if I got all your messages on… If I had to read every message from Feels in the Hot Tub, I would kill myself.” — Jon (26:26)
• “It’s a nice balance to my murder.” — Sarah, on alternating between romance and psychological thrillers (10:10)
• “If you join Patreon, you can go listen to all of that. That’s on the 15th of every month we do a short story. I’m loving that because we are introduced to new authors such as Daniel Hearst.” — Sarah (07:15)

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True Crime Detour: The Dinghy Disaster

(33:06–43:44)

A discussion of trust and digital snooping pivots swiftly into a real-time true crime breakdown:

• Dinghy case commentary (33:06–41:53):
  • Sarah introduces the trending story of a wife, a dinghy, and missing keys in the Bahamas.
  • Meticulous breakdown of the husband’s reported actions, suspicious texts, and their unconvincing emotional tone.
    • “If you had just floated down a river... I don't know where you are, and you're probably dead 12 hours later. I'm not texting, 'Oh, yeah, brother.'” — Jon (41:01)
  • Both hosts point out what sounds “off” in his version.
  • Acknowledgment that social media always suspects the spouse.
• Balancing humor and dark reality (41:53–43:44):
  • Jon jokes about always wearing a body cam around Sarah after watching The Staircase.
  • Sarah notes her clumsiness, and both hosts laugh about how this very podcast could one day be used as evidence if something “ever happens.”
  • “We have too many opinions and zero facts.” — Sarah, on why they'd be terrible at professional true crime podcasting (44:19)

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Next Steps & Listener Engagement

• May Book Reminder: Summer Romance by Annabelle Monaghan (45:04)
• Social Media/Patreon Rally
  • Instagram: @thebooklisp
  • Facebook group: Book Listeners
  • Patreon for bonus content and short stories ($5/mo)
  • DM for unused airline drink tickets offer

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Banter/OFFICE TALK – 00:00–03:04
• Upcoming Books/Patreon Short Stories – 06:03–07:00
• Book Club Reflections – 09:02–11:08
• Seattle, Pike Place, SODO Debates – 20:00–23:52
• Digital Snooping & Shadow App – 25:27–30:23
• Location Sharing & Tracking – 30:58–33:06
• True Crime Dinghy Story – 33:06–43:44
• Closing & Call to Action – 44:00–45:16

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Tone & Takeaway

This episode is a spirited, winding journey through modern relationships, trust, literary genres, and local trivia—with the hosts’ marriage and personalities as the real stars. Book spoilers are avoided, but life spoilers abound. Whether you love romance, thrillers, sarcasm, or a slice of true crime skepticism, Jon and Sarah’s rapport makes for a lively, relatable listen.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan in Sarah Colonna. Dash Ryan.

[B]

Dash Ryan.

[A]

Yeah. How are you, sir?

[B]

Looks like you're in a new office, but you have a new backdrop.

[A]

I know. So I'm in the same room. I know you guys can't see all of this, but we do clips, and so you'll see it in the clips. But John decided that we were misusing the space of our office, so we move the desk around, and he's correct. And I think it was meant to be this way because there's shelves behind me.

[B]

Yeah. And if you can see behind the desk area.

[A]

Yes. So it makes sense. This is what it was meant to be. I don't know if it was meant to be for a podcast, but that shelves behind the desk makes sense. And I mean, I have two books, and this is a book podcast, so I might as well put my books on the shelf behind me so that when people are watching videos, maybe they go, oh, look at those two books. Sarah Colonna wrote those. I'll buy those. But before, we had it flipped around against just a wall. But the reason was was because John so sweetly bought me a neon sign that said, are you my podcast? In the font of my other podcast. Are you my podcast with Mary Radzinski? Very funny. Check it out if you don't listen. So we had moved it so that it could hang there, which, in this space, it doesn't have a place to hang. So I'm happy. But I missed the sign. But I do like the look of the shelves behind me. And when I wear this, it looks more grown up.

[B]

Before, there's like a random desk in the middle of the room facing the wrong way. Now it looks like we're grown ups.

[A]

Okay, fair enough. There's a lot of things that probably need to help us look more grown up, John, but.

[B]

Yeah. Well, good luck.

[A]

One step at a time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, here we are. It's April. What, 13th?

[B]

Yeah, 13th.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

Yeah, the 13th.

[A]

Okay. There we go. I was just in Arlington, Virginia, this past weekend. We are recording this the night before I leave. So right now it's April 9th. I was doing shows April 10th and 11th to put a little end to this long run of shows I've done since January. So little break from standup roadwise, at least. For now, until August, But I'm sure I'll add some stuff in between because that's how I do. But we. I'm sure there were some book listeners in Arlington, Virginia, that saw me last weekend because you guys always come out. So I want to say thank you in advance from the past.

[B]

Hopefully you guys weren't.

[A]

And hopefully. No, the booklet splitters are never.

[B]

They never. They never happen yet.

[A]

No, no, no. Not yet. That's true. There's always the first time for everything. First time for everything.

[B]

I don't know that song.

[A]

Since you said goodbye. Oh, really? Oh, John, I'm gonna play it for you. I want to say little.

[B]

You have to.

[A]

No. Yeah. Oh, John, you would love this song. So. Yeah. Little Texas. So John loves country music. I love country music.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so if I. I'm telling you. Do you know Little Texas?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You don't know. The First Time for Everything. It's one of their best songs.

[B]

Well, now I'm having to look them up as well.

[A]

Well, I'll play it for you after this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Just like I played matchbox 20 for you the other night. Yes.

[B]

But I knew exactly who they were. But you wanted. We got home and you wanted to play Matchbox 20. You wanted to play it so badly that you played one song on repeat for 45 minutes.

[A]

I wanna push you around. And let's cut the obvious. I was overserved that night.

[B]

That song gets better with time. I swear to God, though, I mean, it's a good song.

[A]

There's something about some 90s songs and. Hi, guys. This is a book list podcast. You know, it's. You know, it's doing over here. It's week two. We're reading Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier. We don't do book spoilers until week four. We do random topics inspired by the book, but they don't spoil anything for you. But right now we're just on a random tangent about Matchbox 20. I. There's something about. I don't know. I don't know if it's my hormones that are, you know, not regulated, but trying to get there. I don't know what's going on, but every time over the past couple years, when I hear a good 90s jam that I forgot about, I'm like, we had some good music.

[B]

We did. And I think. I think part of it is there's certain songs that you hear, especially for me in the 90s, that take me right back to, like, A Place in Time, even if it's not specific.

[A]

Some. Some Bitch's bedroom.

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

Some horror you used to see in Regina, Saskatchewan.

[B]

No, but it, you. It take you back like a grade in school or like a football game or like something that I just like. I. It stands out in my mind. There was no bedrooms, as you would say, Sarah. Nope.

[A]

I like when you don't bite. You know, when I try to bait him, he doesn't bite. I like that. It makes. Was a. Bye. Bye.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Oh, we loved her. Yeah. So we're all over the place already. John, remind everybody what your May book is.

[B]

My May book is Summer Romance by Annabelle Monaghan and it is a very John pick.

[A]

Okay, well, okay, it's.

[B]

It's a very me pick. You know where it's going, you know where it ends. But it's going to be fun getting there.

[A]

So it's a. It's a two people who find their way back to each other.

[B]

Over 100%.

[A]

Yes, I got it. I already knew when you said that

[B]

total perfect May beach read.

[A]

Okay, can't wait. I'm going to read it on the beach in May with when we go to Cabo to celebrate our dear friend Chris Franola's birthday. I'm gonna read it right on the beach. Cabo I. And then our Patreon short story. Because we do a short story on Patreon that comes out the 15th of every month. That is if he finds us by Daniel Hurst. Because we read another short story by him and we really like him. And eventually I'm going to do a full novel by him.

[B]

Have we read any of his full length novels?

[A]

No.

[B]

No. What was the other short story?

[A]

Why would you do that to me, John?

[B]

I don't know. Sorry, I thought you might have it on the. The tip of your tongue.

[A]

Something about the body maybe.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Short story.

[B]

The Body put you on the spot. But yeah, I remember his name, but I don't remember if it was from a full length novel or.

[A]

It's called the Body. A wife's body lies on the floor of the home member. And then he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay. Anyway, if you join Patreon, you can go listen to all of that. That's on the 15th of every month we do a short story. I'm loving that. Because we are introduced to new authors such as Daniel Hearst. Can't wait to read a full length book by him. But I just had to do another short story by him because I loved his last one. And. And then we do Patreon episodes on the 5th and the 25th as well, that are not short stories and they're just John and I sometimes talking about what we're reading. John was telling me all about how he's reading Liza Minnelli's book on our last one. And sometimes it's just us talking and having fun. So that's only $5 a month. And it's just, you know, we just have some fun over on Patreon. If you want to join us. Rate, review, and subscribe. That is a free way. I have to always say free because one time somebody thought I said I. It was a three way.

[B]

There's lots of three ways going on on the comment section on Patreon.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

There's not. There's not.

[A]

I know. He's just trying to get people to join.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes.

[A]

No. It's a free way to. To support us by rate, reviewing and subscribing. So I, as you guys know, picked Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier for April Obs Obsessed. Love it. Thought it was. I kind of think. Do you have a favorite so far on the book list from all of our. Mine or yours? Doesn't matter. You're probably gonna pick one of yours as one of your favorites, but.

[B]

Oh, yeah, my. My 28 Days by Ellen Hillenbrand. One of my favorite books ever. But yeah, you. I didn't when we started this.

[A]

Or is it 28 summers or 28 days?

[B]

28 summers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right. I can't remember. It doesn't matter.

[A]

This is your favorite. Can't remember the fucking title.

[B]

I've been hitting the head a lot at the start of this, when we started this, like almost two years ago, I didn't think I'd like your books as much as I have and I've really liked all your books.

[A]

Well, thank you. And samesies back at you.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Twinsies. I. Well, what. What I think is nice is we've been both introduced each other to our style of reading and even though we already knew and I knew what you read and I knew who they were, but I had never read this many. I've never read this many beach reads. Romantic guy gets the girl. Girl goes away to summer camp. Guy comes back gets the girl again.

[B]

Yeah, talking about language, girl.

[A]

I know. And I've never read this many of them. Now I read six a year. But I like them. It's a nice balance to my murder.

[B]

It mellows things out a little bit.

[A]

It does mellow things out a little bit. I, I think it, it's. It's interesting because I. The books That I pick like this month's read is based. It starts off, the story kicks off because a child gets kidnapped. And, and that's dark. And a lot of times they're dark. I have discussed many times that the first books that ever hooked me into psychological thrillers or maybe I don't know if they were the first ones, but, I mean, maybe I got hooked on an author called Tess Garretson that I've talked about many times. And her. I can't. I don't think I can do her book that hooked me for the.

[B]

Oh, you've talked to us before. Where you're like, it might be too dark.

[A]

It might be too dark. And, and it's, it's called the Surgeon. You guys can look it up. I highly recommend it. It's a great book. She was a, I think she was a medical doctor too. So she writes from a place of having this medical background. And then it's a serial killer. So you can kind of put two and two together there. But then there's, you know, there's some trigger, warning type stuff in there. So I don't know that I, I, I, they can do some of her other books for sure. But that's the one that first hooked me on these kinds of books. And I don't know what that says about me. It also. We watch Dateline every night. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know why. We all love true crime. I'm not. That wasn't a true crime story, her book, but anyway, it doesn't matter. She also kicked off. Not kicked off, but Rosolian Isles was a TV show that was written based off of her books, based off the characters in her book. So, and that was on, I think, like USA or tnt. So. And they lightened it up a little bit and made it more of like a police drama, which some of her books are. But it's just, you know, sometimes the subject matter can be tricky. I don't know why I'm going off on this tangent. John, help.

[B]

Keep going, girl. You're, you're, you're on fire.

[A]

Rain me in.

[B]

I just let you go.

[A]

I don't want to be let go. I need to be rained in. Need to focus.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So back to Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier. It starts off a little dark. A kid, someone being kidnapped. But it is an interesting story and we won't talk about it until NE2 Mondays from now when we wrap up the whole book. But review the whole book. But of course we're going to give you a little insight into dumb things that won't spoil the book for you. One is last week we talked about the fact that this is based in Seattle.

[B]

I love a Seattle book. And you talked of Seattle.

[A]

I know. And you just went there. Tell everybody why you went there.

[B]

Well, I went there out of nowhere on Thursday. Now on Monday morning, on Sunday morning, a good friend of mine called me and he said his girlfriend of a year and a half broke up with him out of nowhere. And I said, I'll get on the first plane tomorrow morning and I'll be there for you. So I went there, made sure he was doing okay, took him out. First five beers is great. The next five beers, the wheels fell off. You know how it is right after you break up with someone we're broken up with. But I just wanted to go there to make sure he was okay.

[A]

We should also note that this is his first girlfriend since he got a divorce.

[B]

Divorce from a woman he was married to for 20 plus years.

[A]

So it's just like, I think that first person that you date after something like that, it's you, you go, I don't know, I don't, I never met her. But I think a lot of times you go opposite of who you were with for a long time and you,

[B]

you just have different, you have better. But she came to our Christmas party.

[A]

Oh, okay. All right.

[B]

You probably are very brief, but yes,

[A]

but you get my point. I'm just saying. Yes, you, you try to do something different. You try to do it or, and you just are having fun or, or it's not even that different. Maybe in some circumstances. But whatever it is, you're, you're, you sometimes you just dive right in because it's the first person after being with someone else for a long time. So when that person breaks up with you and you weren't expecting it, it can be a real bummer.

[B]

Real bummer. And he was, he was very bummed, very, very bummed out about this.

[A]

I know. So it was so great that I love that you were just like, I'm going to be there tomorrow. I mean, so much so that. And if you know John Ryan, this is crazy. He booked a flight that was full, didn't even get to pick a seat. They assigned it to him at a gate.

[B]

It was successful. And let's. Sarah, as we've said so many times, we fly a lot. We're both diamond medallion, the top of the frickin food chain for Delta. So we're usually upgraded to comfort or probably first class if we don't pay for use an upgrade, whatever. This flight was fucking full. So I go to the gate, they give me seat 15D. They go to close the door. Sarah, woman walks back with a ticket in her hand from Delta from the front desk right before the closed door. You know how that if, if you're an experienced flyer and you're not in first class and someone walks up and you're like, you know, you know they're coming for you. You know they're coming for you. You know it's going to be fucking good. Is Jonathan Ryan here? Jonathan Ryan looking for. Oh, yeah, right here. Swee right here. She's like, oh, we upgraded you. I'm like, yeah, you did. To Delta Comfort. Like that. That's the row in front. So I go, okay, thank you so much. I grab the ticket, I grab all my stuff and move two seats up and sit right back down.

[A]

Wait, you didn't even tell me this.

[B]

No. So I was.

[A]

Because comfort Z. I know, but comfort's better than economy just because you, you have a little bit more space. I mean, every on. Let's be honest, on these fucking airlines, every little inch counts.

[B]

I'm not complaining. And then, you know, you're in comfort. Plus it's free alcohol. But I only had two drinks for the whole flight. But my thing is, is the door was about to close and there was no one beside me in the sold out flight. So I'm like, oh, baby. At least like, I mean, I'm not in comfort. I'm not in first class, but I have an empty seat beside me. So I'm like, I'm still winning, right? And then they move me to like this, this couple who are taking up the whole freaking thing. The woman had already moved over to the aisle. She thought she won too, because she thought they had three seats. I'm like, oh, sorry. They just, I just go where they tell me to go. But then they brought on like a family of like two people that were on the wait list that sat in my seats. But anyways, I kind of got upgraded.

[A]

So I didn't even know this because I. Because John was so excited that he. He not excited, but he was so thrown off, I guess would be the better word than excited that you were going to be in not comfort. And again, this isn't a flex. It's when you fly all the time, you just get an automatic. Delta gives you an automatic upgrade to comfort when you pay for Maine if you have status like, like 99 of the times. Yeah.

[B]

I booked this flight 12 hours before takeoff.

[A]

Yeah. But my point is. So this. The reason I'm saying this is because what they also do is they give you drink tickets as a medallion member every year. They give you. Oh, so you can buy a free drink or you can get a free drink with a voucher. Well, we never use them because we're always upgraded to comfort at least. So John was like, oh, my God, I'm in comfort. Where do I find my drink tickets? He's texting me. He's like, where are they? And I'm like, they're in the wallet on your app. Go under vouchers. And so anyway, I didn't. We never talked about this, so I didn't know that you never got to use those. So they're still sitting in your wallet.

[B]

There's all 20 of them. Was also I said when. When Dave picked me up, I go, you know that I love you so much that I flew coach to come here and see you. And also, did you know that in the back of the plane there's a bathroom? I've never been back. He's like, shut the up. I was just messing with them. Obviously, I knew there's a bathroom back there. But he. He.

[A]

Hey, listen, any of you guys flying times are tough. The. The flipping airfares are out of control, truly. Because I saw someone do this online, and I think we talked about it before, but online sound like my mom. I saw that someone do this on the interweb. On the Google. No, I saw it on threads, I think. But someone was sharing their drink vouchers. And the problem with the way they did it was she. She posted it, and then someone could screen. Screen, grab it. But once it was used, it was over. So all these people thought they were gonna get to use it. But if it was used once, it's over. But anyway, truly, if any of you listeners are flying in the next year, honestly, because we both are given, like, 20 and we never have a lot

[B]

of them, we DM us.

[A]

Yeah, DM us on the Book Listeners. That's our Facebook, our Instagram page. Or write in the comments on the Book Listeners Facebook group at the Book Lisp is Instagram Book Listeners Facebook Group. Tell us and we'll send you specifically a drink ticket that we know won't be used because everyone needs a cocktail up in the air right now. It's tough out there.

[B]

Sure do.

[A]

Anyway.

[B]

Sure do.

[A]

Back to the point of this podcast, Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier. You went to Seattle. We talked last week about how Pike Place Market is both a tourist and a local place. And I know that you wanted to follow up on that because you literally just went there.

[B]

So I know we have a lot of people on here from Seattle and this is kind of a topic that some people don't agree with. It's just like umbrellas. Yeah, I think we talked about this last week. A lot of people, locals don't use umbrellas. Well, I don't like to have my shit wet, so yes, I do. But a lot of locals say, oh, I never go to Pike Place. Like they talk about in this book. She's like, oh, local never goes to Pike Place. Which is false. Okay? And I went to Pike Place to investigate. So when you think of Pike Place, boots on the ground, boots on the ground. You think of the frickin sign. And underneath the sign there's like a main hallway right through the entire market. Guys throwing fish, people selling chocolate, people selling flowers for miles. Locals never go there. Locals never go on that main strip. Then there's kind of an alley, kind of like not an alley. The streets, like Pike Place Street. Locals don't really go there either. Okay? That's where there's like Starbucks, the first ever Starbucks. Everyone that lives in Seattle, everyone that's ever visited Seattle has been to that Starbucks exactly one time, right? You never go back a second time to that fucking Starbucks. But then there's a bunch of little places off the market that are still part of the market that locals go to. So I went to this bar, Pike Bar and Grill, whatever it is. But it's like a little bit off and a little bit upstairs. A little bit harder to find unless you're local. And I sat at the bar, I was talking to the bartender, and he goes, like, everyone at this bar, they're all locals and regulars at my bar. It even overlooks the market sign. He goes, there's, you know, some tourists kind of wandering for the restaurant side. This is very local. And then I talked to my buddy Dave, who I went there to see. And he's like, born and raised on Bainbridge Island. He's like, Seattle through and through. He went through like the grunge rock scene, the 90s. He is like Mr. Seattle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he agreed with me. He's like, there's a lot of places around the market that aren't in that main street that you think about that locals go too often. So I was right.

[A]

You were right.

[B]

And then what I brought up, which also brought up this book was Soto.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

So I want to get some people on the. On the listbreakers group. If you're from Seattle, if you say Soto, that means south of the Dome. And in this book, she goes, it's south downtown.

[A]

She says, it's south of downtown. And I asked you about that because I didn't know.

[B]

And I've never ever heard someone say stto referring to south downtown.

[A]

So when you. When in the. Just to explain real quick for non Seattle people, because there's plenty here south of the Dome means of the.

[B]

Okay, so where the Mariners and the Seahawks used to play, there was a big dome, right? That was right there. And that's where both teams played. They tore that down and built two stadiums. And this is like well over 20 years ago now, 25 years ago now. So I think there's a whole generation now where they're trying to change it. Because I looked this up and actually my buddy Dave, he goes, no, no, it's south of the Dome. He goes, actually, I just looked it up and they're trying to refer to it now as south of downtown.

[A]

Oh, is it because the dome's gone.

[B]

The dome's gone. And all these kids growing up now, the kid could be 30 and never remember the Dome because it was torn down 25 plus years ago. So they're trying to make it more south of downtown. But I wanted to know if you're from Seattle, if you're true Seattleite, you still say Sodo and you're referring to south, the Dome. Right. People out there tell us in the. I don't think a local would ever refer to Sodo as south Downtown.

[A]

South of. Yes, well, and then the newer ones wouldn't know not to call it anyway. But you got it anyways. Now, speaking of things to call things in this book, at one point, there's an affair going on. I want to give any spoilers, but there's an affair happening and the person that finds out about the affair is gets an app. It's an imaginary app. It's not a real thing. But I do think things like this might exist. I was googling it. I think they seem tough to get. I think there's probably less invasive versions available. But in this book, this person and not giving any spoilers is able to get a. A thing attack because she. Or. Yeah, well, she and the guy share a phone plan. And so she can attach this trip tracker to it where she gets his messages on her phone so she can start reading all the messages between the person that's Having an affair and the other person that he's having an affair with. And first of all, amazing. It's made up. It's not real. I forget what it's called in the book, but it, It's. When I looked it up, it says it's not real. But there are some versions of it. I mean, I know people have. What's the. There's one for like families that could. But. But always it's more like tracking each other. It's not reading the. That comes in on each other's phone. So if you guys know different and if there is an ability to read that comes on people's phone, I mean, tell me. But I don't. I. I can't. I would want it in her situation. Yes, clearly, once I found out. But other than that, I mean, if you have to do something like that. So she's done it once. She's already found out. Right. So she's like almost trying to figure out how long it's been going on. How much information can she get? But I'm sure people. Oh, is the shadow. I think it was called the Shadow app, Right? That's what it's called in the book.

[B]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[A]

But. But I mean, that's just the way more advanced version of just knowing someone's passcode and going through their phone. And we've talked about this before. You and I are, you know, we don't need that shit. We just don't. Thank God.

[B]

We don't need. I don't need that whatsoever. I trust you beyond 100%. But if I got all your messages on. If I had to read every message from Feels in the Hot Tub, I would kill myself.

[A]

Oh, yeah. One of my. One of my girlfriend's group chats. It's called Feeling in the Hot Tub. Don't ask why. And it's just four of us. And honestly, sometimes it overwhelms me to have to read all those. Because when, you know when on a group chat, when one person. When, when one person's away from their phone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And it's. And everyone else is. And then you get to your phone and you go, oh, Jesus Christ, I have 30 messages and feeling in the hot tub. And it's a lot. You wouldn't want those. But I think, I think in the book, because it's fiction, she was able to only get them from. Oh, no, you're right. She was getting them from everything because her phone kept dinging.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, would you want to. If. God, I mean, you know, you don't have to worry about with me and I don't have to worry about you. But just people in general. I don't. I'm trying to put myself in that situation. Would I want to read those texts?

[B]

I wouldn't. I would not. I would not. I. I'd already want to kill myself. So I wouldn't put myself through that torture.

[A]

Because there's one point when she.

[B]

Once I know what's going on, I don't need the nitty gritty details of the thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm just like I. I'm not going to keep on hurting myself more that I've already been hurt.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I think because in the past, the only time I've ever. We've discussed this before but gotten to someone's phone was when I knew that they were doing something and they were lying to me and gaslighting me and lo and behold.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Hey, your passcode was your birthday and you were lying like I was right all along. So fuck you.

[B]

Right? Yeah, I've always said it, but stuff like this.

[A]

But I wouldn't need to see, I don't need to if I'm. If I'm being lied to. And I need to prove I know that you're cheating on me. Here's the proof. Right. So that I can get out of this relationship or whatever it is. Or maybe you should get out just when you think are actually looking anyway, you know, but. But then I don't need to then go see what's. What's been doing before that or what's. Or you know, the dirty or the, the more evidence.

[B]

Don't torture yourself.

[A]

Yes. Because once she gets into it, into this shadow app thing in the book, she, she. They start. She starts seeing their text back and forth and, and it's actually very fun. It's written with a little bit of a wry sense of humor, which I enjoyed. Where she, you know. The what the girl sends a naked photo or something and then the guy writes back, I'm going to lick you all over. And she's like, I'm going to kill them both. You know. But you can't. I can't. I was putting myself in that, in that space. I thought I can not imagine reading this shit. I mean that would make me. And, and she still at this point hadn't confirmed. Confronted him about it again. I'm not getting into that detail until the book review. But I. How, how can you know something like that? And oh, hold on to that information. I would. My hands would be around your throat, her throat, the. The AT&T's throat. They didn't even have anything to do with it, but they just allowed the text to happen. I can't imagine holding on to that kind of information. Of course, there's backstory in the book of Morse going on with them, so that's why. But it's just when I'm reading this, I'm just. My blood's boiling.

[B]

I go, oh, God. I wouldn't.

[A]

Never. You would be locked out of this house or you'd be inside of it while I burned it down. I don't know which one.

[B]

Oh, I agree. A guy. I wouldn't last a minute. I'm just going to hold on to this information for a while. No, no, no, no. Couldn't do it.

[A]

That was a tangent. I didn't mean to go on, but I was.

[B]

You went there.

[A]

I did. I don't even know why I brought that up. I guess just to wonder if anyone has any kind of apps or stories of.

[B]

There is a lot of apps now, and even I think on. Maybe I'm not very good with Instagram or Snapchat, but I think that some people can make their location public so people can, like, follow. Like my buddy Dave the other day, he was showing his brother's like this crazy, like 4x4 off roading camping guy, and he showed me where he was just like in the middle of freaking nowhere. But he can track him through his phone. Oh, I think there's something like that.

[A]

Well, we do that. Like our friend Jackie, my. One of my best friends that John knows. Well, she goes. And she goes on adventures. She went on that. She went on that hike that the. The woman that wrote straight. Cheryl Stray. Cheryl Stray. Don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, you do. The book, though. She goes on the long hike.

[B]

But wasn't it the hike with

[A]

Cheryl Strayed? She went on the hike.

[B]

But who was the. Oh, my God. The actress that played her.

[A]

Wild. Was it Wild?

[B]

Yes, that's what. Yeah.

[A]

Reese Witherspoon.

[B]

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Wild. That was 2014. I just googled it. That's crazy.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

I thought it was way more recent than that, but that was the hike where. It's the long one, Pacific Trail.

[B]

And she went on that one.

[A]

Yeah, Jackie went on that. She goes on things where you have to. I. I remember, like, we had to send her a. A box ahead of time to a certain address to give her provisions. So I sent her Some US weeklies and a few things that I knew that she would be missing because she loves a little celebrity gossip in her downtime. And so I was sending her like that for. But then by the time she got it, it was probably old news anyway. But she wouldn't have known because she didn't have any cell service. But she does shit like that. So my point is, she's one of the people in my life that I do know. I don't have it. But our friend Erica always knows her location. Someone always knows her location, just in case. Yeah, you got to know. I mean, she's not. You got to know. Someone's got to know where you're at.

[B]

And bitch goes off the grid.

[A]

I mean, we got this guy that just got. Got arrested in the Bahamas or I don't know who's in the. I think he was back in the US when he got arrested, but his. His wife, quote, unquote, falls off a dinghy. Now, listen, this is all allegedly. Here's what's. Here's the problem with when people go missing now is we always go, oh, it's the husband or, oh, it's the wife. Right? And usually it is. It just. A lot of times is. Especially when it's just the two of them and it's dark outside, it's. Right. But the problem is. We don't know that. But this is. We're recording this on Thursday. You guys are going to hear this on Monday. If there's any development between now and then, like, he admits it, then. Forgive me for recording from in the past, but he got arrested today because his wife and they were on a dinghy and she fell off in the night. And he said that she fell off with a. With the key to the dinghy in her pocket. And so then he couldn't start the dinghy, so he couldn't go for help. So he had to swim for help. And that's why.

[B]

It's a paddle. He had a paddle.

[A]

He had a paddle. Oh, right in the paddle in the

[B]

boat because there's no engine, couldn't start. So at the paddle in the boat,

[A]

you've had to remind me of that like four times.

[B]

Because I.

[A]

We keep talking about this story because I'm fascinated. And John's like, he didn't. Because I was like, how did he swim in the water for eight and a half hours? He's like, no, he was in the dinghy, but he paddled the dinghy. He didn't swim because I was like, what about sharks?

[B]

What about it's like eight foot, hard bottom. Dinghy had to look up. That was. What'd you call me? Yeah. And with her, with a small. With a small mortar. Wife goes over with the key in her hand. So at this point she goes over, she has a key in her pocket or whatever. As a husband, I go in after her.

[A]

Yeah, you do.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

And you're not even a good swimmer.

[B]

Look. That's a hell of a current taking her away.

[A]

Yeah. Bye, honey.

[B]

My. Bye.

[A]

It doesn't add up. It's. It smells fishy, but it's.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Maybe. Why maybe the guy.

[B]

So you said that it's out and they were out in the dark when this happened.

[A]

Yeah. I don't want to get all this. Are you sure?

[B]

Why would they be out in the dark in a freaking dinghy in the middle of the ocean in the Bahamas?

[A]

Well, because they were. So first of all, her last name was Hooker, so I just put in Hooker, Bahamas, which is not something. Yeah, so. So. Okay, I'll tell you, I can. I'll read it to you a little bit now. This has now become a true crime podcast for the moment. So it says that they were sailing together. Okay. No, they were sailing together for more than a decade by the way. And her daughter. It's not his daughter, it's. It's his stepdaughter. But her daughter says he was always in charge of dinging. So she, the daughter thinks it's suspicious.

[B]

Dingy years.

[A]

Yes, because she. Well, no, it yers. And then I think they took. Were taking the dinghy. So somewhere else. So he said she fell from an eight foot dinghy near Elboque in the island Saturday evening as they were traveling back to their yacht. So they were on a dinghy going back to their yacht. Okay, got it.

[B]

Okay, that makes more sense. But here's another thing. Why don't like a dinghy? Isn't the safest thing in the world on the ocean. Why do they not have life jackets at least close by or on. On preferably. But if not, you know, like to the point where if you fell over. Oh, I can't swim. I can throw you a life jacket pretty quickly, right? Unless this guy fucking hit her in the head, tossed her overboard and then paddled this motherfucker for eight hours. That's likely what happened.

[A]

Or God forbid it was an accident. I'm just giving devil's advocate, even though I don't believe it. I think he's probably did something. But I think, you know, there's There could always be the situation. This is what I mean by we all just think he's guilty, even though probably is. But it could be a situation where everyone had a couple too many cocktails. Right. He didn't handle it the right way, but it says he says. So she was. They were traveling back to their yacht on the dinghy. Strong currents carried her away. He lost sight of her is what he told them. She was wearing the keys and when she fell off the dinghy, which made the boat lose power, so he tried to paddle to shore, according to his account shared by the police. So he says he last saw his wife swimming toward the shore. And then the dinghy drifted toward another Harper harbor, where he ultimately was beached. And he traversed through the bush till he made it to Marsh Harbor Boatyards, where he made contact with the local police. They were notified at 5:12am but this happened several hours before that. And they were saying that there was another place that he could have gone that was much closer. But then they don't know if he just was confused because of the currents and the darkness and that. But doesn't sound great for him is what we're saying.

[B]

But yeah, but as you said, Devil's advocate, if it was just a complete accident, then you feel. That's the thing. It's like there's been a couple things. Like a couple have gone hiking and the woman just falls over the edge. And it's like, well, how do you. How do you prove it?

[A]

Right? That's the. That's the part that makes all this hard is. So they are. I don't know what they arrested him on as of today. I mean, we know what they. They arrested him on suspicion, but we don't know what the evidence was. So I don't know if they're just question, but if arresting means they think they have evidence against him. Right.

[B]

Here's what this is. What. Yes. Yes. They have to have enough evidence to arrest, I'm sure. Unless the Bahamas are different. I don't know what country he ended up in when he came to shore. Bahamas. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Well, wait, I have. Did you know this. Did you know about the text he sent some. A friend some texts. Now this is a friend you don't want to have.

[B]

Here we go.

[A]

This is your text. So his friend just says, do we just see on the news, ABC World News said Lynette fell off the boat. He wrote back, yes, brother, I'm afraid so. Off the dinghy and some choppy seeds on the way back to the sailboat wind blew me away from her. She swam towards the sailboat, and we lost sight of each other pretty quickly. As it was just about sundown, I drifted and tried to paddle with one oar for the next seven hours until I washed up behind the shore of the next island over and was able to get some help. Finally. We are still searching. A lot is going on right now, but I thank you for checking on us. Being on the news is a huge burden, and I just had my first ever news organization. Call me. Okay, I'm. I'm gonna say this doesn't help this guy.

[B]

No, I don't think so. But he. But the thing is, he thought it was. If he's guilty, he thinks this is helping him.

[A]

Yes. And I don't want to say what people would say in emergency situations. And again, God forbid, this guy's cleared by Monday, and this was a terrible accident. I'm sorry, but I would think. John, I don't want you to write that detailed of a text to anyone. If I go flying off a dinghy and with the key and you can't paddle after me, I just want you to write, oh, my God, I can't find Sarah.

[B]

The number one thing that I took away from this is if you had just floated down a river. I don't know where you are, and you're probably dead 12 hours later. I'm not texting. Oh, yeah, brother.

[A]

I'm afraid so.

[B]

I'm not quite taking it like, yeah, I'm afraid so, brother. That's a little too calm for me. Yeah, my thumbs aren't probably working properly right now. The text, oh, hey, brother.

[A]

And then he wrote, good morning, Daniel. Thank you for reaching out and supporting us. I got the boat back to Marsh harbor yesterday after the fire department. It just sounds like he's laying out too many details also, and he's like,

[B]

oh, it's really weird to have a news organization. I'm like, I want every fucking news organization. If I just think you're missing and I want you found. I, like, I want every news outlet in the history of the world to text me right now. Call me right now, because I want to talk to everyone to try to get everyone's eyes on this. Yeah, wouldn't that be a better response? Yeah, real weird right now, brother. Just going through some stuff, maybe. Probably.

[A]

Thanks for checking, bro. She. She. I don't know that she. Swept away, man.

[B]

Yeah, I think he's a little bit like, hey, hey, you can look at her, but nudge, nudge, wink, Wink. I wouldn't waste my time.

[A]

Yeah. It just seems this. How do we get on?

[B]

This is what I'm. This is what I'm learning lately. And I've learned over the years. I have a camera at the top of every stairwell. After I watch the staircase, I have a life jacket. And I'm never going to be on a boat alone with you. I'm never going to go.

[A]

Well, I guess people were talking about we have staff. Staff.

[B]

Like two people.

[A]

Neither. We don't belong on a dinghy by ourselves anyway. I don't want that kind of pressure.

[B]

And I'm never just going hiking in the middle of nowhere with you because if something should happen to you, it's going to be my fault. And I don't want that to happen. Like, then my wife's dead, and then I have to also go to prison forever because you don't have good balance. Oh, this may. This might be all coming out wrong right now.

[A]

Well, I was gonna say, I feel like. I feel like if something does happen to me, this episode is going to be pulled up.

[B]

I know somewhere. Yes, most definitely.

[A]

And you better hope you get extradited to Canada where they're a little bit nicer, because no one's going to wear

[B]

a body cam everywhere we go. Just. It's called the. The backup cam.

[A]

I mean, we might have to start having people wear body cams when they go on vacation together by themselves on hikes and dinghies, because this is crazy.

[B]

Crazy times. Crazy times are living. I have no clue how this podcast went this. This direction, but we pretty much got to the end. And I don't know if we've talked about anything yet.

[A]

I know, but this is what I like about talking to you on a podcast. And hopefully it's what I. Our listeners like, too. A little all over the map. We have some fun. We'll be back next week with more things inspired by the book question.

[B]

Hopefully we're both back. I don't know. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, well, don't.

[B]

Someone pushing me on a hike or going on a dinghy with me gonna push me over the edge.

[A]

Now it might just become a podcast about that lady and her husband. And next maybe we'll have an update

[B]

for you if this takes a weird turn and we turn this into a true crime podcast out of nowher where

[A]

we'd be so bad at that we can't.

[B]

We would be too many opinions.

[A]

We have too many opinions and zero facts. And then we would also just. And then I. And then I would Google in real time. And I'd go, I don't know. Now it says the dinghy was the bl.

[B]

We just jump all over the place. Then eventually we'd probably just get sued.

[A]

Yeah. And I was like. And I would. And then I would. I'd probably up like countries and cities and anyway, thanks listeners, for being here. Join the list for book listeners on Facebook at the Book Lisp on Instagram Patreon. Super fun. If you want to join us, $5 a month with the short story and then other bonus episodes. We will see you next week. And John, remind them their May book

[B]

Summer Romance by Annabelle Monaghan.

[A]

See you next week.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

The Book List, The Book Lisp. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

The Book Lisp.