B (3:29)

Who wrote the book?

A (3:30)

Frederick Bachman.

B (3:31)

Oh, isn't that Randy Bach? Randy Bachmann from Bachman Turner Overdrive. Remember that?

A (3:37)

I remember Bachman Turner Overdrive.

B (3:39)

And then his son is tall Bachmann who, who sang that one really popular song in the 90s. Like she's so high.

A (3:48)

Above me.

B (3:49)

She's so lovely.

A (3:51)

She's so high.

B (3:57)

That, that was a.

A (3:58)

That's my favorite. When he sings, when you sing like that. Oh, and then also on Patreon last month we did a little thing where we found this alternate ending, the original ending to Then She Was Gone by Lisa Jewel. And so we just discussed it. It was a quick like 10 minute thing that we discussed over there. So we do random stuff over there. If you want to join support. Like I said, five bucks a month. Anyway, also come see me in July 18th at the Grand Theater in Salem. I don't do a lot of touring in the summer, but I just added a date to Salem, Oregon, July 18th. And John will be with me if you want to meet him too. Or not. Or you can ignore him.

B (4:40)

Either way, I'm good.

A (4:41)

So this is Beach Vibes Month by Susan Mallory. And as we know, I am always waiting for a Dead body. And I'm really. I'm actually. I'm almost done with this book, and I just started it two days ago because I keep wanting to know what happens.

B (4:58)

There's a lot of dead parents in this.

A (5:01)

Sure.

B (5:01)

That's true.

A (5:02)

Yeah. They don't die during it.

B (5:04)

That's Dead wife. No, they all. They all die in the prequel.

A (5:07)

Yeah.

B (5:07)

That hasn't been written yet.

A (5:09)

I prefer to listen to how they all die. Just kidding. I think after. Then she was gone, which I loved. But I think it. I think it's a refreshing thing for me to be reading something a little. Like.

B (5:23)

I went right. I went right into this book from the last book, and it was like. It was a little. A little refreshing. It felt like more up my. More in my genre.

A (5:33)

Yeah.

B (5:33)

My wheelhouse.

A (5:34)

It is. And I'm so. I'm really liking it. I know everyone has their preferences to what kind of books they read, but I'm really liking it. I'm almost done with it. I only have, like, two chapters to go. Oh, girl.

B (5:46)

That's why you're so late last night.

A (5:48)

I know. I was. And I was like, I was gonna push through and just finish it, and then I thought, just get some sleep, Sarah. You're still gonna find out what happened when you finish it. It's not that deep, and. But I do. I really. I like it. I think. I mean, some of the characters are frustrating, just like they're supposed to be.

B (6:04)

Yeah.

A (6:05)

And that's. That's just how books go, so. Yeah. Good pick so far, in my opinion, John. I like it.

B (6:13)

Some. Some people thought it was a little. I heard you say from the. Our book group that some people thought it was a little tough to get into.

A (6:22)

Yeah, I thought. I kind of found the opposite. I didn't think it was tough to. I mean, not that, I guess. Not the opposite. Yeah, I didn't think it was tough to get into, but I think that's with any of our books. I mean, some people. I mean, any book club. Sometimes you're all in. Right. When you start a book, sometimes you're not. It's just how it goes. That's why we're changing it up and making people think.

B (6:45)

Yeah, there's a. It's a lot of setup, but it's good. I like it so far. I am happy with my pick.

A (6:52)

Yeah, I enjoyed it. Or. I don't know how it ends yet, but I have a feeling. I know. Hopefully don't. Okay, well, we talk about the book. Not until week four, if you're new here. Every Monday we have an episode. The fourth Monday of every month is when we actually dive into the book. These weeks we just talk about things we pull from the book but they will not spoil any part of the book for you. John, what did you decide that we should talk about today? First Monday of May, pretty early on.

B (7:21)

In the book, so this isn't much of a spoiler. Beth, one of our main characters has been divorced from her husband Ian for about a year. She hasn't dated, she doesn't have a lot of friends, she's worked, she volunteers, she's going to, she has, she has her own sandwich shop. So she's busy with that. And so she's going to get something from Costco and there's a big billboard, a proposal, A proposal billboard. And it's her ex husband proposing to his new girlfriend on the billboard. And that's how she finds out. So I want to talk today because I love engagement stories, how people get engaged. I want to talk about engagement stories, maybe how we got engaged, but just some of your favorite engagement stories and some of the most cringe worthy ones. And also notice that like most other people's engagements are a little cringey for some reason.

A (8:11)

Yeah.

B (8:12)

But for whatever reason, I don't know why I think it's so personal and that you look at someone else. One of the most popular ones that everyone always talks about is like the jumbotron at a sporting event.

A (8:24)

Right.

B (8:26)

And 99% of women that I talked to are like no, definitely not. And I think there's probably 1% that be like well we met at a Dodgers game and this is so romantic.

A (8:37)

Yeah. I also think we cringe and then, but then you think like you said, you don't know the people, you don't know the story behind it. And had you proposed to me on a billboard, I mean on a jumbotron. We both love baseball. You're a football player. I mean it would have made sense and I don't and even, I mean probably other people would have thought it was cringe but I probably would have loved it even though when I see other people do it, I cringe worthy. So it's like it's all sort of relative. I think a lot of not of our business to cringe at people's engagements but it's just for fun.

B (9:14)

A lot of, a lot of football players do the after game engagement. I've seen, I've been teammates with three or four guys who did it after the game on the field.

A (9:25)

Yeah. I've seen a bunch of those. They usually put them on the, on the old NFL or ESPN Instagram and I end up seeing them some. Somebody kneeling down there.

B (9:35)

When, when we got engaged, I wanted there to be like, no, like, no, like, like a lead up in terms of a bunch of things had to go, right. Like if you're a professional football player and you're getting engaged after the game, you have to win that fucking game. You know, you're not getting engaged if you lose. You know, I mean, like you. So I never wanted. And a lot of guys, I've seen a lot of guys, they plan these big things and it's like this, this, like so many things have to happen. So many people. I was like, that's. It's already. When you get. We ask your girlfriend to marry you. It is so nerve wracking. Like it is like a week full of nerve wrack. You've already picked out the ring. And then I had like, I had the whole thing planned out, but it was only going to be you and me. Like when we got engaged, it was during, like we played on the 28th football game. Then I had it all planned out. Like after the game you're gonna be in the air on a plane. So I was like, that's when I have to call her parents. Because your dad, he could talk like no one else. So I'm like, if he ruins this surprise for me, I'm gonna kill him. Your mom can talk like nobody else. So I'm like, if she wrecks this, I'm gonna kill her. So I had it all planned out. Like when you were in the air right after the game, I was literally driving home from the game and I pulled over. I got like the courage to do it and I called both your parents separately. They don't live in the same state. They're no longer together. And then that was like a big relief. And then when I kind of like it was big relief or a big like nerve wracking to like ask you.

A (10:57)

Now let me ask you about that because I've never proposed to anybody and I've only been proposed to once and it was the from the right person. Thank God.

B (11:05)

Well, thank go.

A (11:06)

I. You knew that I would, I would say yes.

B (11:14)

Yeah, like I was 99.9% sure. I mean, we hadn't been dating for a super long time, but I think we both had talked about it. We thought that we were gonna. We were obviously both in this, on the same page going in that direction that we wanted to Marry, wanted to. Didn't want to be with anyone else for the rest of our lives. And you just kind of thought that it was gonna happen like in the off season, right?

A (11:32)

I always figured it would happen in Mexico, and I guess he just assumed that was a little too on the nose because we were always vacationing in Mexico and. Yeah, and I figured during the off season because that's when football players, athletes, whatever, you know, they have so much going on during the season. You just assume, okay, it'll be at one point when he's not thinking about a million other things. And. And this was December, too, so it was almost the end of your season. So there was a lot going on because you guys were. Back then, the Seahawks were still always making the playoffs and blossom middle days. Go Hawks. So I, I think my question about someone proposing it being ner, what is the nerve wracking piece of it? When you knew that my parents loved you and I'm not. I'm. I mean, this is a genuine question. It's not like, why would you be. I'm like, what makes a guy nervous when you already talked to both my parents and you already knew that they were going to be obsessed with you. They. That they were going to be happy. And you knew I was in love with you and was gonna say yes. And you knew you got a solid ring. I mean, hi. If you're on Patreon, you can see it when I held it up. So you knew that you hit the jackpot on all those things. You knew that you made me. He made me this very romantic scrapbook that he presented to me after we opened our Christmas presents because I basically came there after spending Christmas with my family. So now you know my question. I'm rambling.

B (12:59)

You want it to be perfect because it's going to be a story that you tell the rest of your life. You want it to be perfect for the person you love because they're going to remember this forever. And you just want it. You just want it to be perfect for them, really. And it's, you know, you. This is a story you're going to tell until the day you die. And so you want it just to be perfect.

A (13:16)

Okay?

B (13:17)

And I know people always say, like, oh, it's so traditional of you to call her parents and ask for permission. And I was like, oh, I didn't ask for permission. This is the untraditional part of it. Because they're like, oh, it's so, like, traditional of you to call your parents. I called. What I did is I called both your parents. I said the same thing. I said, talk to your mom. And I said, I'm really in love with your daughter. As you know, she's coming here right now sometime this weekend. I'm going to ask her to marry me. I think it'd mean a lot to both of us if we had your support.

A (13:50)

Yes.

B (13:50)

I think that's how I worded it. I didn't say, can I have permission to marry your daughter? I said I'm going to. I didn't say it like a dick, but I'm saying I'm going to ask your daughter to marry me. Like, just. And I want you to be the first to know. And it'd mean a lot to me and a lot to Sarah. I think if you had our, if we had your support.

A (14:06)

Yeah, I think that goes on. That depends so much on a. What people's separate beliefs are on all of that.

B (14:15)

Sure. Yeah. Age.

A (14:16)

Age comes into play. I can see, I can see an 18 year old feeling like they might need to approach the father. Right. And say, but I think it would be weird if I was 39 when you were proposing.

B (14:30)

Yeah. But I also don't agree with like just calling the dad. I think you should have this conversation with, with both parents if they're still alive.

A (14:36)

Right. Yes, I agree.

B (14:38)

It's also, I always think of it like, like I wasn't going to give your dad two goats and a handful of gold for you know what I mean? Like, wasn't an. I wasn't offering anything up. So. Yes. So I was, it was untraditionally traditional. But you said yes. No, actually you didn't say yes for a while.

A (14:56)

But okay, well, I, he, I, I just hadn't answered. I was so happy. And then he was like, I guess that's a yes. I'm like, sorry, did I not actually say anything? So, yeah, it was very romantic. We were by ourselves and when I was reading this story and Beth passes. Beth, right. Messing that up. Yeah. When she passes the billboard, first of all, I was like, yes. So cringe as they talk about in this. Like, okay. He had to put a billboard up next to a. It was basically on the way to a Costco. It was next to a Costco. And she's like, why is this here? I mean, did they meet at the Costco? Like, what a random place for this to just be. Is this like on the way to her house? Maybe. I mean, what's the deal? Deal? But it just everyone in the book kind of that she tells Sort of agrees, like collar pole that he did the billboard, but also like, so she's. The billboard thing is so weird because I understand a skywriting thing if you, if that's your style. I understand it because you see it at a certain time and then you go, oh, look. And then the person sees it and then they say, yes, and then it's gone. But a billboard's there for like a while.

B (16:09)

Well, and that's. I think skywriting be more nerve wracking because that motherfucker's up there for like a minute and a half. And half the time you can't even read it. You're like, what?

A (16:17)

Yeah, Gary. What?

B (16:19)

Gary wants to do what?

A (16:21)

Yeah, you miss it. And you know, and then, and then. And then there's like another Linda and Gary hanging over nearby, and they're like, wait, did you propose to me? And he's like, no, I guess that was from someone else.

B (16:31)

I think the thing that, I think that. I mean, I mean, obviously everyone has their own things, as we already said, but when we. I want to get engage is always like intimate, just you and I. Whereas when people do it like on the jumbotron or on a billboard, it's kind of like, hey, everybody, look at us. Yeah, it's almost like the man is peacocking a little bit. You know, he's like, oh, look at me. Look what I'm doing for this girl.

A (16:52)

Yeah. But also, maybe that's what the girl wants. Maybe she wants all the attention on her when she gets engaged. I mean, we saw when we were in Cabo.

B (17:01)

Oh my God. This is. I had written down this story because I really want to tell this story.

A (17:05)

Yeah, I know that. I. I'm sure I talked about it. This is forever ago. And are you my podcast or something?

B (17:11)

It's a story that deserves to be retold.

A (17:13)

Oh. No matter what. And even so it was a. There was. We were at which hotel was. It was Esperanza.

B (17:20)

Esperanza. Where we actually got married.

A (17:23)

Yes. Where we got married. And there's this beautiful place on the beach for weddings, which is where we had ours. And that weekend. This weekend that we're not. When we got married, but just. This was last year, right?

B (17:34)

Yep.

A (17:35)

There was this couple that had ob. Had just gotten engaged and then there was another couple that was about to get engaged. Now for. For context that they are setting up this. Like, I'll find the photos.

B (17:49)

Yeah.

A (17:50)

And I'll post them in our listeners group.

B (17:53)

We're at the pool at like 2:33 and they start setting up this engagement. Like, they take about four or five hours to set up this engagement. Sorry, go ahead.

A (18:00)

Yeah, no, you keep going because.

B (18:02)

So it's kind of a place where I think everyone has like a romantic dinner on the beach, or that's where we got married. Or there's kind of a couple spots where they do it. So they're setting this up. It's the most elaborate thing ever. Like, will you marry me? And as they actually come down later, it's like all in fire and it's all, like in fireworks, and it's like over the top. I'm talking, like, it had to have been some kind of like reality stars or something, because there's no way this was even, like a secret. Like, she knew this was coming. She had to have known this was coming.

A (18:31)

Well, remember, didn't we find it? She was like a dancer for the Chicago Bulls or something.

B (18:36)

Oh, really?

A (18:37)

We ended up finding them because we found it tagged people. After I told. I think I told the story on, like, Jeff Lewis and people were tagging me, finding kind of like similar ones. But then we found the one tagged at Esperanza and that couple. And she was like a dancer and he was. I don't know what. I forget.

B (18:53)

Yeah, but it. It felt so sad. Like there was camera, like. Like there was like a film crew.

A (18:57)

Oh, there was a film crew. And then. And at one point she was late because she obviously knew it was coming because you can't.

B (19:03)

They had someone walk her down.

A (19:04)

Yeah, you can't surprise someone with. When there's already fireworks that say, will you marry me? And he's pacing around and there's like this long red carpet. And I mean, it was so over the top. And she was. I think she was dressed in white, right?

B (19:17)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (19:19)

And the guy had like a.

B (19:20)

They had like a. Like a harmonica and a violinist.

A (19:23)

Oh, God. They had. There was a videographer taking the whole thing. And. But. And, you know, good looking couple, Very Instagram looking. Meaning, you know, they probably. They probably get some likes just for their beautiful faces here and there. So they're like, why not pump up our engagement, too? And. But the funniest part was so on the other side of the. Of this thing where there's another spot another couple had just gotten engaged, like 30 minutes prior. 30 minutes prior. And he just did it pretty normal. Just proposed to her on the beach. And I was like, oh, this poor. Either his fiance is like, what the. Where are my fireworks? Or she's like, thank God. Thank God. You do that. Which is what I would have been doing.

B (20:10)

They got engaged on the beach, and then they set them up a table, and they were gonna have dinner on the beach. So it was just like, you know, like a very simple. Just how you want it to be on the beach. Just a table, had a thing of flowers for her, two seats. And then they're just facing back to this couple who's doing, like, fucking fireworks. That's like. I mean, there's, like, monkeys jumping out of barrels. It's, like, incredible. And then you just pan over, and they're sitting there at their little table, and it's like, oh. Like, I hope that, like, just this might be wrong to say, but just as an outsider, I'm like, they have a better chance of making it than you guys do. I just. I'm telling you, they probably do.

A (20:47)

Yeah. As an outsider, that's what you would definitely think. You're like, she. And. And I would think. I would imagine that the. That the woman. I would imagine that if it was you and I, I would say we don't know these people at all. But if it was you and me sitting over there, I would certainly have gotten a laugh. I would have been like, why didn't I get it? Why. Why didn't you come up to me with sparkler shooting out of your asshole? Why not? You don't love me. Like.

B (21:11)

And then when she said yes, the fireworks went off, really? The whole thing. We. We watched the setup. We actually watched the setup with another couple from Seattle that we met there. Anyway.

A (21:20)

Yeah, we did. We all start. We all started.

B (21:22)

We were. We were, like, laughing the whole time. Yes. And it took hours and hours and hours.

A (21:26)

But we weren't laughing, though, at the.

B (21:28)

No, no.

A (21:29)

The guy to. Yeah, we were, like, supportive, but also.

B (21:33)

Yes. No.

A (21:34)

Couldn't take our eyes off of it.

B (21:36)

Yeah, it was like a train wreck. But the thing is, it's like it was so over. And then the whole thing lasts, like, two minutes. Like, she just walks down. She's like, oh, my God. Like, as if she didn't know that was coming. Oh, my God. And she walks down, and there's freaking firecrackers all over and rose petals in the sand. Then he gets down on one knee, says, whatever. I do. I think that thing even said, like, she. She said yes or something in fire. And then there's fireworks. Like this. I've been to that hotel and, like, had, like, nice dinners and done stuff. It's like, this is a hotel. It's not, like, an all inclusive hotel. This is like a $30amargarita type hotel.

A (22:12)

Yeah.

B (22:12)

So if that thing cost him less than 30 grand, I'd be shocked.

A (22:18)

Yeah, that's a good point.

B (22:19)

Like this thing was costing tens of thousand dollars and it lasted two minutes.

A (22:24)

Two minutes. And took an all day set up. I mean there was a very stressed, you know, like a stressed lady with a clipboard. Yeah.

B (22:30)

There was like an, or an organizer and like eight employees going back and.

A (22:33)

Forth and yeah, all the employee. I think they. I feel like at one point I remember seeing an employee like go over to the other couple and just like give them a bottle of champagne.

B (22:43)

I mean it would for me I'd feel like a little bit emasculated. I just would for the other guy a little bit.

A (22:51)

I, I know, I hope not. You know that guy did it because his. I hope so too, because to me he did. And this is no shade. It's just what, what everyone's preference is. But to me that's what that guy did. But is perfect. Right? Just proposed to her on the beach. There was no nobody. There wasn't a donkey that ran by with like a sign or anything. And then just they had a beautiful private dinner that they thought was going to be private, but then there were fireworks.

B (23:17)

Yeah, fireworks shooting on their table.

A (23:20)

They had a good amount of space in between them. I feel like, I feel like for that couple, they have a better story for the rest of their life than the couple that had the big engagement.

B (23:30)

They do. But I'm saying as a hotel that does this all the time, that coordinates amazing dinners, that coordinates our like weddings like ours, like crazy stuff like that. I feel like they should have took the guy aside and said, hey bud, you want to maybe do it tomorrow night? You know, when there's not fireworks coming to this guy's asshole. Like, like maybe tomorrow night be better off for all of us. If you did it, then yes, I.

A (23:53)

Do think, and maybe they did. Who knows. But I do think a heads up of like, okay, I know you're going to propose. I just want you to know that like five minutes after you do, there's like a social media couple that is doing it all for the gram. I mean this is, this is all for the gram and, and just, you know, you make your decision from there, buddy. But we wanted to give you the heads up.

B (24:16)

We need to post a picture because everything we're saying about this engagement is basically underplayed to how it actually was.

A (24:22)

Yes, I will.

B (24:23)

We need to post a picture on it.

A (24:25)

I. I will put them in the book listeners Facebook group and then I can put them in our story on the book list on Instagram. I don't want to do like a post on the stories on the profile grid on Instagram because it might be confusing for people that come by, like, who is this? But that people that aren't listening along yet. So knowing that you guys all listen, I'll put it in the Facebook group and then I'll also put it on our stories.

B (24:50)

I had a friend. I had a friend get engaged. I always say people like, just do it simple. Like, just do it simple and do it YouTube. And then if you want to have a party in a week, have a party in week or whatever. But some guys that I played football with, I had a friend, a guy to play football with and he had this big thing like all we're going to have, like, he's going to have like 40 of his friends at the house right after and this and that. Like, so many things had to happen. And then I'm like, dude, it's like, it's like you're organizing a surprise party. How often do you do you do a surprise party, A massive surprise party, and the person at the party never finds out, right? Like never. Like, you don't want them to find out about your engagement. And of course she found out about the engagement.

A (25:26)

Oh, she did?

B (25:27)

Yes. I was like, I told them it was going to go like that, but this particular person never listened to me.

A (25:32)

Anyway, I have a feeling I know who that was.

B (25:37)

Yeah. Anyways, I'm a big fan of simple engagement people.

A (25:42)

Yeah, I am too. To each their own. But just, it is. I mean, it's fun to watch other people.

B (25:49)

Oh, absolutely. You know, you know what I hate now? And I don't. I can never tell now if it's a real thing or a fake thing because the freaking social media world and all these people think they need to like, get likes or whatever is like, oh, the guy likes on a boat and he drops the ring over the side. Or, oh, I saw a guy like, under like a water. Not a water. Not a water fountain. What's it called?

A (26:10)

Hose. No, a water slide. Fall.

B (26:15)

Waterfall. You're under a waterfall. Like, who gets engaged under a waterfall? Unless you are stupid.

A (26:22)

He got engaged under a waterfall.

B (26:24)

Yeah, the ring, like, falls. I'm like, you guys have been married for five years and you're just doing this for the gram. So now I don't even feel bad when people's engagement goes wrong because I'M like, it's not even real. You guys are wrecking it for me. Yeah, I like the old days when people. Shitty times are actually shitty times, you.

A (26:40)

Know, when nobody faked something awful going wrong. It just actually went wrong.

B (26:46)

Yes, yes.

A (26:48)

Take us back to the days of America's Funniest Home Videos.

B (26:53)

Yeah, imagine. Can you imagine how hard that used to be? Like, you. Your dad had to have the VHS camera out on his shoulder and just suddenly somehow catch Grandma falling off the swing set like that. Like, that's like a one in a million. Now we videotape everything. It's like everything that's possibly funny is out there. Like back. Back in 89, if you captured that. It's hilarious. Yeah, yeah. Grandma falls off the swing set every afternoon. We got them all on video. Who cares?

A (27:21)

Yeah, right. Good point. Nice rant.

B (27:25)

Yeah.

A (27:26)

Well, I can't think of any friends that we have that had, like, weird engagements or engagements gone wrong. Right.

B (27:36)

No, I think. I think most are pretty simple. We just had a friend get engaged, like, two weeks ago, and they just. It was simple at their house.

A (27:44)

Right. Who?

B (27:48)

Bivens.

A (27:49)

Oh, right. Yeah, well. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I thought you were saying it like we were there. That's why I got confused. No, I was like, we were at an engagement, and I don't remember it. No, yeah, they. Yeah, those are our friends that. They had a. A very beautiful private engagement. And then they're getting married, though, in Austria, and we get to go. I said, john, I'm not sure. Yeah, John's gonna. Oh, yeah, we talked about this, I think, on. Or maybe on Patreon. But yeah, John is gonna officiate his first wedding. Reverend Ryan, I like Justice John better, but everyone thinks that that sounds like a character from a. I don't know, one of those HBO dramas. Anyway, go ahead. What else do you got?

B (28:30)

John, well, after Best Divorce, talked about how she didn't have, like, all that many friends. She's busy at the sandwich shop. And she kind of made it sound like she kind of, like, lost a lot of the friends in the divorce.

A (28:42)

She said that basically. She said that. Some of them even said to her. And this again, not a spoiler. It's early on, that they basically said, like, while we. We chose. We chose whatever his name was. Ian, I think.

B (28:55)

Oh, yeah.

A (28:57)

I find that to be. I mean, I understand it can be difficult to maintain relationships with both people when you were friends with both of them. And I understand. Say. Well, if. Say you're like, it started, you Know, like, Logan's one of your best friends and. And has been since you were a kid, so something happened between us. He. Of course, I wouldn't expect him to, like, come hang out with me from Canada on his own, because that would be weird. Like, that's. He's your best friend. But for the most part, I feel like if it's friends that you guys, you know, either met together or grew into close friends together, I think everyone can. And unless someone did something awful, it's like, why can't people be adults and also just be like, I'm gonna be friends with both of you?

B (29:49)

And especially in this case. They made it sound like they just kind of, like, grew apart. They went to therapy, and then he was just like, no, it's not working for me anymore. I think. I think a lot.

A (29:57)

Yeah, she was trying. She wanted to make it work.

B (29:59)

So I think a lot of times, if there's cheating involved, then one person is more likely to maintain the friends.

A (30:11)

Yeah, I remember. So, like, my. You know, the. The last boyfriend that I had, that was, like, a decent amount of time together before I met you, which was several years before I met you still. But he. He and I had a bunch of mutual friends. We kind of met. I was bartending at this place, and then he. His friends would come in, and then because I got close with his friends, I met him, and I became pretty close friends with a lot of these guys. And then when we broke up, we were on and off for. For a couple, like, three or four years. But then when we lived together, very brief amount of time, because that's when you. That's when you figure it out real fast, by the way. I was like. Thought I was in love with this guy. And then we moved in together, and I was like, oh, no, no. Get out. So why are you not responding?

B (31:05)

Because were you. Were you worried when you moved in with me?

A (31:08)

No, not at all. No. No. I mean, we'd already done, like, staying with each other a bunch. I don't know. I just. Whatever we were. And you and I weren't on and off. I mean, it was. It was just all the. All the cracks that I already knew were there were just. Because we were on and off were like, more. The light was shown on them because.

B (31:28)

We were on Hot and Heavy Girl.

A (31:30)

Right. And. And he and I were not. Oh, so. But I just remember after. I didn't really hear from a lot of those guys anymore, and I think they felt that they were in a position. Some of them. I did here and there. And I could, you know, I could tell they more wanted to check in, but like, they didn't think it was probably cool to hang out with me. And I was like, all right, I mean, fair enough. Whatever. Maybe this is how guys are. I'm not gonna even. I met them separately from him. It's not like he introduced me to them. So I was kind of like, shouldn't I get to still be friends? Right. Or. But anyway, I just, I didn't. I just was like, my feelings were hurt, but I didn't talk about it or, or call them out on it or anything. And then I remember there was one. One of them I. I've actually made. Gotten back in touch with a few of them and maintained a good relationship. And. And we never talk about that at all. It was just like, okay, it was an awkward time for people to deal with, you know, this breakup, fine. But I just remember hearing from one sort of out of nowhere and then. And basically saying to me, like, what's your deal? I mean, I thought we were friends. And I was like, well, I mean, I feel like that was kind of on you. I.

B (32:46)

Right.

A (32:47)

I was around and you never checked in. And I don't know. I mean, not that it wasn't. It's a two way. I mean, it's a two way street. And I'm sure that I. I had.

B (32:58)

Yeah, but if you're. If you're friends with someone and you break up, I think a normal friend would check in with you to see if everything's okay.

A (33:05)

Yeah, I just felt like everyone was sort of. Yeah. Hanging out with him and checking on him and I. And I was like. Well, I mean, maybe because they knew that I was the one who was like you. Well, the dumper. But I was just. By the time I had the nerve to. To tell this person we shouldn't live together anymore, I was pretty much already over it. And so. And so that's a way, I think a lot of women. Not to. Not to put it that. Not to break it up into male, female, but I do think a lot of women sort of deal with things that way. Like, by the time they actually break up, they're already done with you. And so the breakup hurts. Hurts. You just feel bad about the person, but you don't feel as sad yourself. And he was doing it the opposite way, where he hadn't been present at all. And then all of a sudden he was like, wait, I love you. And I was like, what? So anyway, I think guys do that too.

B (33:59)

As well, because I've been in relationships before, and then people are like, oh, how'd you move on so quickly? Or like, what. How you. Like, how are you not upset? I'm like, because in my head, we've been broken up for six months.

A (34:08)

Yeah.

B (34:08)

Like, I. I didn't. Like, I. Not that I would cheat on someone, but I'm like, I. In my head, I'd already moved on.

A (34:14)

Yeah.

B (34:15)

But you know, just like, I don't know.

A (34:16)

No, that's what you're saying. It is. It's like taking the. It's called being a. I guess, like, we didn't break up sooner. We were trying to go. I don't know. I guess. I guess I better wait a little bit longer. Maybe I'll figure it out. But then you wait a few months, and then by those few months, when you finally pull the plug, you're just like, whew, that's over. And you don't feel really sad. You just feel bad.

B (34:41)

I know this is. I think probably guys do it too, but girls seem to do this more. And when. And I always know when people have, like, good friends or, like, people that think they're good friends. And the difference is whenever someone breaks up with someone and all their friends go, oh, good, he was trash anyway. You're better than him, girl. Blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, I just dated him for two years, so I was just like, you know, I mean, like. Like a good friend's like, oh, I'm so sorry to hear about that. Like, he was actually a good guy. Yes. When you weren't. Right. Together, Whatever.

A (35:09)

Yeah.

B (35:09)

I think some people think that being a good friend is having someone's back no matter what. And it is having someone's back no matter what, but it's not agreeing with them no matter what. And this I learned from football and just not to brag. Team captain, four years in the NFL. That's why I really learned. I go, sometimes helping a guy out is getting in his face and screaming at him and telling me he's being an idiot.

A (35:29)

Yeah.

B (35:30)

Doesn't mean that's actually having his back. Whereas some friends, they think that they have to have their back by having their back is agreeing with them blindly on everything.

A (35:40)

Yeah.

B (35:40)

And I can always tell you when people have actual good friends, when something like a breakup happens and I see how their friends talk to them.

A (35:47)

I agree with you very much. As you know, I had a. I had a relationship not at, like, a friendship that. That had that exact problem. And. And it Was like, no, sometimes calling you out is me loving you.

B (36:05)

Yeah.

A (36:06)

And. But, but. And that's funny too about breakups. You're right. It's funny to think of somebody just being like, oh, good. You could have done so much better than him. And he's a piece of shit. You're like, oh, well, we were living together for five years and you were at my house.

B (36:21)

It was also back. Back in high school and college. This used to happen all the time. Like, I always hated that piece of shit anyways. And then that's like a weekend. The next weekend, like me and Tom are getting back together. It's like, well, fuck me then.

A (36:34)

Oh, good, I love him.

B (36:35)

Yeah. Yeah. Pretend like last week didn't happen.

A (36:39)

Yeah.

B (36:40)

That was like the classic high school college thing.

A (36:42)

Yeah. And you know, in my. In my friend group still can happen into the adulthood and a lot of people friend groups. So do be careful what you say when someone breaks up with someone, because that person might be coming right back around the bend and Ben. Ben bend.

B (36:58)

I did it. I think I did it with. I did it with my college roommate one time, Pete.

A (37:02)

What was that?

B (37:03)

I think. And he. He broke up as a girlfriend. And then I was like, oh, good, man. You're better than that. Blah, blah, blah. Like now I'm thinking about like, why would I say such like, you know, it was such a college thing to say. Now they've been married for 20 years with freak. Well, I guess I was wrong, buddy.

A (37:19)

Oh, I know him.

B (37:20)

I stood up for this wedding and she. She's terrific. And I'm just like, oh, buddy, I screwed up. I was just trying to be that. That guy for a weekend. I'm sorry.

A (37:28)

Yeah. Sometimes we try to be over supportive and it can backfire, especially at a friendsgiving.

B (37:35)

I know you don't watch the show, but on Vanderpump Rules, Ariana or Adriana.

A (37:40)

Whatever, even though I don't watch it, I know it's Ariana because they can't.

B (37:44)

Ariana, they've been dating for like 15 years. And the whole friend. They've all been friends for like 20 years. But when they broke up, she's like, nope. If you're friends with him, you're not friends with me. Drawn a line in the sand one or the other. I don't want to talk to anyone that talks to him. I was like, Are you fucking 14 years old?

A (38:02)

Yeah. That's really stupid.

B (38:05)

That's really. I think that's pretty gross.

A (38:07)

I mean, I understand if someone. And you know, that's a, that's a. Actually a part of this book. But we'll. I don't want to get too far into that because it'll be a bit of a spoiler. But you know that, that kind of comes up in this a little bit in a different way. But yeah, it's. I don't think that as adults we should say you can. Can't be friend now if someone abused you or. Right. If there's a. There's obviously different levels of all of this, but if someone's just. It just doesn't work out. I mean, didn't he though, like cheat on her for. With her like her best friends?

B (38:44)

Like. Yeah. Like another one of their friends? I guess.

A (38:46)

Yeah.

B (38:47)

Rachel. But back then she went as Raquel.

A (38:51)

Yeah.

B (38:52)

And then she, when she cheated, then she went to Rachel.

A (38:55)

Oh, I see.

B (38:57)

As it goes.

A (38:58)

Yeah. You just change your name a little bit when you can.

B (39:04)

Yep.

A (39:05)

Yeah, I think in. Yeah, that does come up in this book. So I mean we won't, we don't have to get into the, to that aspect of it that, to give anything away, but just that, that also plays into like who you. When it's right to step in and when it's not when you know something's going on. Because if you're with. I mean I had this come up when I was like much younger but you know, I was friends with a couple and then there was some cheating involved and I found out and I didn't say anything because I didn't know.

B (39:45)

I was friends to be in ever.

A (39:48)

It's a terrible position to be in and you don't know if you're doing the right thing or not. But you're like, I found out. I, you know, it's just, it's, it's a no win. It's a no win. It's a no win situation. Because if, then if you do you want to tell the truth and you. Because and I was younger then, so I mean I think I would know what to do now. But at the time it's like, well, if you tell then the person that is doing the cheating is going to, you're going to lose that friendship. And then if you don't tell, are you going to lose the other friendship? And that is a, that's a little bit that you all. You'll see when you read this book. But it comes up. That's a tough position to put anyone in. So just don't do it, guys. Don't cheat.

B (40:26)

Seems like that's a common topic that Comes in.

A (40:29)

Up.

B (40:29)

In a lot of TV shows and movies, they put one person on an island. Like one person's a friend with both people. Then they find other. What you just talked about is like that same topic comes up in a lot of books and movies and TV shows.

A (40:43)

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a. It's a struggle.

B (40:48)

Sometimes I look at our friends, I wonder who would take my side and who would take yours. You know, I don't think I'd have many friends. I think I'd have even less friends than I have now. Something.

A (40:59)

No, that's. That's. That's actually what's funny is I was thinking, I'm like, there's a couple of them that would probably be like, sorry, Sarah, we. I know that. I know that I met him. I know that I met him through you, but I'm gonna have to go with John here.

B (41:11)

I think that most of our friends would stay in touch with both of us. The friends that you met for me, like, I don't think Logan would not talk to you ever again.

A (41:20)

No, I guess it would depend. But we don't really have to worry about it.

B (41:24)

No, we don't. But sometimes that's wonder. I want to know people's loyalty and where they lie.

A (41:30)

Well, like my. Our friend Erica, she's one of my best friends. And then she and John have grown so close. Like, they'll. If I'm out of town, they'll hang out, things like that. So I feel like Erica would just be like, listen, you can't take John away from me, so I'm gonna have to be friends with both of you. And I would understand. Yeah, I don't think I would make someone choose again unless you did something shitty.

B (41:52)

Cheating. Always the one cheating and abuse.

A (41:56)

Yeah. And then it. And even it's funny because. What was that? Oh, what's that show we're watching? Oh, your Friends and Neighbors.

B (42:04)

Oh, God. Yeah.

A (42:06)

So I don't know if you guys are watching that on Apple tv, so it's. It's so good. It's Jon Hamm. And like, this is it. I don't know. Even if you don't know what's about. Doesn't matter. No spoilers. But it's like he. You know right away that he and his wife divorced because she cheated on him with his friends, who's like a famous basketball player. And it's so bizarre to me because everyone seems to. They've all stayed friends with her, everything. See, and. And he's. And then. And like the guy just try. He tries. He's like, I know I did this wrong, but can you hang out with us? Like, invites. Invites him over. Like, tries to still be friends with him.

B (42:47)

They all live in, like a really high end gated community, so they all seem like they all, like, hang out all the time.

A (42:51)

Yeah. But, like, it's so I. And maybe we'll get. I know that they're. I know that we're seeing there were some cracks in the marriages as there was, but it just seems as if she has no remorse. She doesn't seem to show any remorse that she cheated. She's just. Anytime he brings it up or something, she's like, whatever.

B (43:09)

You know that again.

A (43:12)

Yeah. Because they still. They have kids, so they're stopping to parent and this and that. And he. It's this weird thing where it seems like he's not allowed at all to be pissed off that she cheated on him. And that's like. Even if there were cracks in the marriage and she needed attention and this and that, there's still another way to go about it than they're banging his basketball player best friend. So I. That part of the show is so confusing to me, and it just like. Because I'm just like poor John Ham. Like John Ham. I feel bad for you that she cheated on you with. With your friend. I'm sorry.

B (43:43)

Amanda Pete. It was Amanda Pete.

A (43:46)

She just sort of. You could tell that she has some regret, but when she's around him or when he's pissed off about it, she's just like, whatever, give me another Mick.

B (43:54)

Get over it.

A (43:55)

Yeah. It's like, wait, no, that's not. It's so weird. That part's. Yeah, I would.

B (44:01)

I think we. We covered. We covered all the topics I want to talk about this week, but I got some good ones for next week.

A (44:06)

Oh, okay. All right. You had some good ones today, too, so. Well, thank you. Well, you guys, that was the book list, your first Monday of this month. Reading Beach Vibes by Susan Mallerie. I will put up in the book listeners and on the book list, but Instagram what we are reading for June for those of you that like to either read ahead or check it out of your library. All those things. And if you're on Patreon, the short story is the Answer is no by Frederick Bachman. Join us there. We have a lot of fun and we're going to keep adding more stuff like we did with that alternate ending by Lisa Jewell last month. We love you. Thank you. And rate review subscribe that is a huge way to help us out. Thank you. See ya Next Boot. Next. Bye. The book list the book lisp the book list the book lisp the book lisp.