← The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
“One Day” by David Nicholls - Full Discussion
00:51:39
It's Week 4 your March Book Lisp, which means it’s time for Jon and Sarah to discuss this month's read, “One Day” by David Nicholls. Jon and Sarah discuss all their thoughts on “One Day.” Emma’s fate reminds Sarah of a certain movie. Jon defends the page length. Sarah discusses perspective shifts and “padding.” It wouldn’t be an episode of the Book Lisp without a creepy Jon laugh. Plus, so much more. Enjoy!
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.
- [00:02]
B
And I'm John Ryan, and you're listening
- [00:04]
A
to the Book List. The Book List.
- [00:08]
B
The Book Lisp.
- [00:09]
A
Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello. Welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hi, John.
- [00:21]
B
Hello there.
- [00:22]
A
Hey. It's the big fourth Monday of the month. Time to review your pick One Day by David Nichols.
- [00:31]
B
Yeah. Got a lot of notes here. A lot of notes.
- [00:35]
A
You have a lot of notes. Is that because the book was a little bit long?
- [00:41]
B
No, just because the book was not good. Oh.
- [00:44]
A
So you.
- [00:44]
B
I mean, you've mentioned many times how long this book was, so. Oh, are you liking the book? Oh, it's very long. Oh, are you liking the book? Just, you know, it goes on. It goes on, and it goes on. Do you like the book? It's. Yeah, it's a lot of chapters, a lot of pages. That's the response get every time, if you like the book or not.
- [01:05]
A
Well, I wanted to do as we try to do and discuss it with our listeners. You know, get into. I didn't want to give you too much away. There's been. Listen, I think you guys can hear it in John's voice. He takes it personally if a book isn't loved and it's okay. You don't have to take it personally. You didn't write it. David Nichols is a great author. I'm going to give you my opinions on the book as we talk about it. I didn't dislike it. I didn't love it.
- [01:49]
B
Okay. I loved it.
- [01:51]
A
Okay. And that's why our marriage works. Difference of opinion is okay. As I have to. Seem to have to remind you right now, because you are getting upset.
- [02:04]
B
This is like my kind of book. You know, it was almost like. Almost some of like what Dexter was, was Little Catcher in the Rye, a little Holden Caulfield, a little bit here and there.
- [02:14]
A
Okay. I like that reference. Mm, yes.
- [02:18]
B
Sorry, did I jump in? Just. You. You have to say all the other stuff, but our podcast and our.
- [02:22]
A
No, no, no. Well, I'll say it when I want. When, whenever. But in the book listeners group on Facebook, which you can join if you're not in there. There's been some. Some chatter about the book and what
- [02:33]
B
are they saying up in there?
- [02:35]
A
Well, it's. A few people. We. We don't. A few people didn't like it as much as they normally like your picks. Now, that being said, plenty of people did like it. It's not. This is what happens. We're reading books and sometimes people love them and sometimes people don't. What are you going to do? I liked it. I didn't like it as much as you did.
- [02:59]
B
No, I loved it.
- [03:00]
A
There you go. And I like that you're. I like what you're comparing it to. We're going to talk all about it. If you happen to be listening to the. Listening to this. This week I will be in Appleton, Wisconsin at the Skyline Comedy Club, March 26th through the 28th. A couple weeks after that, I'll be in Arlington, Virginia at Arlington Drafthouse doing my stand up comedy. Telling the jokes, you know, doing your bits. Doing my bits, my skits, my sketches. So. And more dates to come. There's Vegas in August and Batavia, Illinois in September. Already on the books, but more to be added. A little bit of a break after, after April since I did like six weeks in the row in February. And then, anyway, more to come. But come see me. Those dates are on sarahcolonia.com join the Facebook listeners group the book listeners. Follow us on Instagram at the Book list and listen to us on Patreon. We do three episodes a month that are exclusive to Patreon. One of them is a short story, which is so much fun. I love the short stories. We've discovered great authors that way that I haven't read before or we sometimes read once by our favorite authors and get a little taste of how they write a short story. And that's really cool. And then the other ones are just ransom. And next week. We do have a fifth Monday this month, so it'll be a random podcast. We'll probably talk about reading. Maybe we're going on John's Got Ideas. So you will have a podcast next Monday just because it's a bonus Monday. It just won't be specific. It won't be a book review. Nor will it be specific to next month's read, which is Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier, which, gotta say, loving. Yeah, I'm, I think I'm halfway through and I think one thing I'm liking about is I'm halfway through and, and I, I, I, I'm on like, I don't know. I forget what page. One day seemed a little long. Okay, can we say it?
- [05:05]
B
I don't think so at all.
- [05:07]
A
Okay.
- [05:07]
B
Just. Right.
- [05:08]
A
Okay, well, let's talk about it. Okay, go ahead, give me your overalls.
- [05:13]
B
Overall, it was a great book. It was, you know, it, it had a little, a little bit of everything I wanted, you know, at first when I Set up one day. And it was. Everything was set on July 15th between 1988 and 2007. 2008.
- [05:26]
A
Oh, yeah, let's do that real quick just. By the way. Let's just do a little quick synopsis of what it is about for some people that.
- [05:34]
B
Okay, it's about a college guy and a college gal that meet each other. They basically get together, hang out on the last day of college, the day after they graduate. The day they graduate on July 15, 1988. And then from there on, we kind of catch up with them once a year for the next 15, 20 years. And it's not the same day. It's not like same day next year or like 28 summers where it's the exact. Well, they're always together and they meet up again some day time. Some years they're together, some years you're not. You just get a kind of review of what they're doing on July 15th,
- [06:13]
A
we catch up with them. That one day. Yes, yes. And that one day becomes the fateful day, too. Correct.
- [06:20]
B
So it's also what you find out at the. Very. Closer to the end, 3/4 way through the book, chapter whatever, is that she dies on July 15th.
- [06:32]
A
Right. Got hit by a bike. I mean, on her bike by like a truck. Yeah, very much. Remember City of Angels to 2004.
- [06:43]
B
7-15-4, she dies.
- [06:45]
A
Yeah. After they had. So. Yeah. And they, so they had been friend. They were best friend. They had hooked up and then they were best friends.
- [06:52]
B
They had fallen out, they had fought.
- [06:54]
A
Yeah. They had falling outs. He. And then they end up getting married and being together and then she dies. Anyway. Remember City of Angels with Meg Ryan?
- [07:05]
B
Yeah.
- [07:06]
A
It's like she's like on her bike and then a truck just comes out of nowhere. That's. It felt like the same kind of death, because it was. Anyway. But so. Okay, so there, there, there was a little bit of confusion for me. We. I did bring this up to you before we talked about it because it, the way it was written was a little confusing in the sense that their first hookup, they didn't have sex.
- [07:38]
B
Right. On the night after the night of their graduation when they were 22 years old.
- [07:43]
A
Right. They just hooked up, messed around. What. What do you want to call it?
- [07:48]
B
It was unclear, but yeah. It seemed left to assume.
- [07:51]
A
Yeah. Left to assume. And then later, way down the road, after they've been friends forever and after he's been married and all these things have changed in their life, they end up having sex and he talks and he Says, oh, I want to talk about you and me finally getting together. Because then this is it. This is at the point where she's become successful because it. For a long time, she was struggling. She's a waitress. She's trying to make it, you know, in. In what? She's not sure, but she's writing or working on, like, theater and doing different things. And he's a TV presenter, as they say. They kept calling him a TV presenter. So he's basically hosting this.
- [08:31]
B
Like, I think it was during that time period, like the mid-90s, that was really big. Like, we had VJs, you know what I mean? Like, the MTV. That's what I kind of imagined him to be like, the MTV guy, the host, the Carson Daly. Not Carson daily now, but Carson Daly when he was on trl. I think that's kind of. That was a really big time for TV presenters in that period, which they were very popular. And I think that's. That's what he was. And that's what he had a lot of success doing.
- [08:57]
A
Yeah. And that kind. It was interesting because that kind of came out of nowhere. And you're like, oh, so he's kind of famous and she's sort of still his friend that. She's like, whatever. You're still just like the douchebag that I know. And so I liked there. You know, I like. She didn't. I think that he. His character liked that. She didn't give a shit, really, about that. But. But she wanted him to be successful. But what was my point?
- [09:20]
B
Well, you're. You're saying about how you said that, how they hooked up, but the number of times they hooked up.
- [09:24]
A
Oh, yeah. So. So when they do end up hooking up, like, actually having sex, he says, I want to talk about us getting. To get. Finally getting together. He says, finally getting together. And she goes, we slept together once. And. Or. Or something like that. And then the conversation got weird. And then he said. She said, I'm not talking about intercourse. I'm talking about how many times we slept together, which was only once.
- [09:49]
B
So this. I'll clarify for you.
- [09:51]
A
Okay.
- [09:51]
B
This was in chapter 15. The year before, he had gotten divorced from his wife because he found out that she was cheating with Callum, his roommate and also his boss, who was a big douchebag. And so Dexter comes to visit Emma on the train in Paris. And So this is July 15, 2001. They're 36 years old. And when she gets there, when he gets there, they're like, we have to Talk about what happened. So what they're referring to when you're talking about that is what happened two months ago in May that we don't know about yet as readers.
- [10:23]
A
Right?
- [10:23]
B
It's like, we need to talk about this. And they're talking about how many times we've been together. And she said. She says, we slept together once. Dexter. Like, talking about two months ago, we slept together once. Dexter, right? And he goes, we slept together three times. Saying we had intercourse three times that night. Because then she goes, I don't mean how many acts of intercourse, Dex. So they're talking about two months prior to that, which would have been, like, May of 2001.
- [10:55]
A
I found it confusing because I thought he. She was saying. I thought she was saying, no, we've slept, like, the night that he spent with her back in college and then another time, I guess. And then I thought that meant, like, yeah. And that's why I thought it was worded confusing. I was like, wait, why is she clarifying saying intercourse? Because now I thought they only did it once.
- [11:16]
B
They were just referring to that one time, trying to clarify what happened two months prior.
- [11:20]
A
I see. I see. Thank you for clarifying. This is. You know, this is a great. It's an educational podcast.
- [11:28]
B
And then after wife's podcast, she's like, no. Dexter goes and kisses her. This is when they're 36 years old. They're starting to figure things out. She wasn't. Kisses her on the table. She goes, what are you doing? Like, I have a boyfriend.
- [11:40]
A
Yeah. What the.
- [11:41]
B
Then he gets pissed. Like, well, you didn't talk to me about this. You've been living here for eight weeks now. You have a boyfriend. She's like, calm down. I've been dating for four weeks. And then she's like, whatever. Like, we're going out tonight. We're going to meet my boyfriend. Whatever. She goes and gets ready. And then while she's getting ready, she's like, what the. Like, I want. I want to be with Dexter. And then she calls them, says she has, like, laryngitis or something. And then she. That's when she gets with Dexter.
- [12:02]
A
Yes.
- [12:03]
B
And so that's when they. That's when they decide they're going to
- [12:06]
A
be together after all these years. And so. And I liked that. I like that a lot. I liked their friendship. I liked that you could always tell. I mean, she was always a little bit in love with him, but. But more so you could tell he was always in love with her. You could. She was more. I mean, she was always in love with him, but. And she didn't want to get her heart broken and. But. But just. He was for sure always in love with her because she was the one he always wanted to reach out to. She. Even when. Or, you know, even when he got married and when they grew distant, he always missed her. She was the one.
- [12:44]
B
He was the. He was like the drunk caller all the time, leaving drunk messages every time. Like he missed her.
- [12:50]
A
And he had a big drinking problem, which he. And drug problem, which he cleaned himself up on. He got very drunk and visited his sick mom.
- [13:01]
B
He was really sad part. He go. He goes and goes to his mom. He's. He's drunk and he's on pills or something. He said, he said he needed like, I know, don't upper or downer to get whatever. Then he's like speeding in the freeway, lose control. He's. I got to get my together. Gets to the house and the. Obviously his dad knows he's drunk or high or whatever, goes and talks to his mom, and his mom says something to him, which I don't know if this is a British thing in the US or in Canada, we'd always say like, if you, you, you made your parents mad, they'd be like, I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. And that was like the ultimate, like, knife to the chest. Yeah, but apparently in the uk they say something that's way worse than that. What? And it cuts deeper because his mom said this to him and then his dad said this to him right after. I think you've become not nice.
- [13:48]
A
Oh, do you know, if you say
- [13:50]
B
I'm disappointed into you, that means just, I am disappointed in you. You said you've become not nice. That means no one thinks you're nice anymore.
- [13:56]
A
No one. Nobody likes.
- [13:57]
B
You're addict to everyone. And his mom said that to him and. And his dad said that to him after. And I was like, well, that's a good one. If you are wrong, that cuts deep. That cuts deeper than I'm disappointed in you.
- [14:08]
A
Yeah, that does cut deep. You're right. And yeah, he was very. That one. And the one thing about the David Nichols writing is like, all of those things were so well written and so well described. I mean, I could picture his mom sick, wishing, you know, him trying to visit her, him trying to struggle with his own demons and just failing on every count to be there for her and be sober and alert and then letting down, you know, the dad, because then he goes to sleep in a room all day and Basically misses dinner with his dad and the m. And it's just. You could just really sense what a disappointment he was. And I kept waiting for him to see it, but he didn't. It's like it took a long time. His.
- [14:59]
B
Took a long time. See, even then he. Even then he comes out of the room after he slept the day away by accident, and then he's still lying. He's like, oh, I'm taking Emma to Jurassic park and Princess Die is gonna be there. Whatever.
- [15:10]
A
Yeah.
- [15:11]
B
You know, I mean, like, he's. He's like, continues to, like, lie and try to be like. He's right. He's trying to impress his own family with his, like, fame.
- [15:19]
A
Right. And he's not even when they.
- [15:21]
B
When they don't.
- [15:22]
A
Couldn't give a. Yeah, they just want him to be, like, a decent person. And then even, you know, I kept waiting for something to happen. I. Further and further into the book, I realized some. Some. I was like, somebody's gonna die. Something's gonna happen. Something bad's gonna happen. And there was when he was watching his. His kid. His. When. When his wife. When Sylvie was off with her lover slash friend. Yeah. Callum, who also gave him a job basically to. As a favor to Sylvie, which is super weird because they were. But he. He got like. He got up during that. And then I started thinking, oh, my God, is something bad gonna happen to the kid? And that's what's gonna make him. I. There's all these sort of, like, moments of tension, which I loved.
- [16:16]
B
Yeah. But he gets fucked up when he has to. Like. Like, apparently Sylvie is going to a girls night. Or like, what do they call it? Something weird.
- [16:24]
A
A hands.
- [16:26]
B
Hands. It seems really.
- [16:27]
A
Yeah.
- [16:27]
B
Condescending or really, like.
- [16:29]
A
I know, but that's what they call it in the. The British should call it that. Hen.
- [16:33]
B
Okay. But really, she was going to pound town with old Callum, the old Dexter's roommate. And so during that time, Callum, or Dexter's, like, babysitting his kid. Jazz. And he's like, starts, like. I think he starts, like, drinking and he starts, like, text or like, calling old girlfriends.
- [16:52]
A
Yeah. He's calls the one that he was dating when they were both on TV together. Yeah.
- [16:58]
B
Yeah. And he calls her and he's drunk, obviously. And he's like, hey, I just saw you on tv. Just wanted to say what's up? He's like. Like, who is this? Like, you guess. And she's like, I don't know who this is. Like, come on, why don't you guess? She's like, shut the fuck up. Who is this?
- [17:11]
A
Like, yeah, and then. Yeah, yeah.
- [17:15]
B
And then. And then she's like, oh, I haven't seen you in five years. Like, what? Like talking a little bit. And he's like, oh, whatever, we should go out for lunch sometime. And then I think he says, I have a kid and a wife. He's like, why the. You, like, go away, you losers. Basically, what she said, she's like, yeah, I have a. I have a man waiting for the table. I have a friend, I have a boyfriend. Like, get away from me, you loser.
- [17:37]
A
Yeah, and she's basically like, and you have a wife and a kid and it's inappropriate that you're calling me. Yeah.
- [17:42]
B
Yes. So I think that that means, if you think, then again that he's actually going to be like a rock bottom moment, but doesn't really come to that because he finds out right at the end of that chapter that Sylvie is with Callum. And then the very next chapter is when he goes to meet up with Emma in Paris and they. They get back together or get together.
- [18:03]
A
You know, one thing that I really liked in the. On the writing end was the sort of quick perspective switch in Chap. In within a chapter, within even paragraph to paragraph one, was what you're talking about when he is watching his kid and, you know, he thinks that she's on the head night, whatever. And then in the next paragraph, it says, in a hotel room in Westminster, 10 miles further east, his wife sits naked on the edge of a bed with a phone in her hands and quietly starts to cry. And. And there's a lot of. There's. I mean, I highlighted so many examples of that, just because I know that's probably. I know that's not. I know that's something that a lot of authors do. I just liked the way it was done in this. It was just. It wasn't. They didn't switch perspectives chapter to chapter, which I love too. We read that on a quiet street where it was like, you know, each. Each chapter was written was from someone else, but someone else's perspective. But I just liked that within a paragraph. I think it was even when he was getting married and Emma was there and he's thinking about something, and then all of a sudden the next sentence is, emma sits quietly and watches him from the back of the church. And so I. I don't know, I just really enjoyed that. I like that style. Just thought. I. Yeah, I think.
- [19:34]
B
I think he's a. He's a really good writer. I Don't think he's written a lot. I think he's one of those guys only writes every few years type thing.
- [19:39]
A
Oh, really?
- [19:40]
B
I think maybe I'm wrong, but he's.
- [19:42]
A
It takes him a long time because he writes 500 page books.
- [19:45]
B
I think that was longer than 500
- [19:46]
A
pages, but it was long. And I look, I think what I. My honest opinion, this is just my perspective. Everyone has a different perspective when they read books and doesn't matter. It also comes from. You have to remember what type of books I am drawn to are quote unquote, page turners. Right. I like a psychological thriller. I can't wait. Right now, I'm deep in my pick. Little secrets. Jennifer Hillier. Not to pat myself on the back, but it's got me like, I don't want to put it down. It's one of those I'm carrying around because we work out and I'm reading it, we go into the sauna, I'm reading it, we're like. I'm like. Because I just want to know what happens next. This was just. It was a great story and it felt slow to start. The letter writing was a little like losing me a little bit. I remember we were watching. I remember I started it and I go, john, is it. How long are they going to write letters? How much letter writing? And he was like, not long. And I go, oh God, it's just so much letter writing. He goes, how many pages have you reft? I was like, I'm 3% in.
- [21:09]
B
I personally, I think this is the type of book, if it's not already, it's going to be a book that's studied in colleges, it's going to be studied in high schools. Because I think that that deep of a book, it's like Catching the Rye. It's like Hands Made Tales. It's like these books that we read in high school. And that's why I think that this. That's what this kind of book is.
- [21:25]
A
Are you his publicist right now?
- [21:27]
B
Yeah, I'm his hype man right now, apparently.
- [21:29]
A
You are. You're David Nichols, hype man. No, he's. He's an incredible writer, author, all the things. I just personally found it to be a slow start. And then in the middle, I was really into it. Especially like when they went on vacation together
- [21:47]
B
too.
- [21:47]
A
Yeah. And he was. And they had all these rules because he had a girlfriend. And they were supposed to make sure they were keeping it not. Not getting weird because their friends who are a male and a female who wants hooked up? Oh, go ahead.
- [22:01]
B
Okay. So if you go on a vacation with a friend of the opposite sex, I guess. And if you have to set rules, then you probably shouldn't go on that vacation, because it's deeper than that. Unless you want to. You know what I'm saying? I'm just saying, like, if you and Chris Franzola went on a vac, you wouldn't have to sit down together and write out rules. What's going to happen?
- [22:18]
A
We should.
- [22:19]
B
Where's that are like? They're like, no skinny dipping, no being naked around each other, no cuddling, and no Scrabble, which is really funny.
- [22:27]
A
Yeah. That part was rules. I'm like, that might be a rule that Franco and I would have.
- [22:31]
B
Yeah.
- [22:31]
A
Other than that.
- [22:32]
B
But if you have to make all those rules that it's like the friendship is a little bit beyond a friendship. And you could tell it was when they went on that vacation together.
- [22:39]
A
Yeah, agreed. Because he's. He's coming up with this. Or they both came up with this list to go over with his girlfriends, too. And I. If I had to sit down with you, if you were going. I don't mean. I don't know. I'm trying to think, like, Erica are really good friends, and John. And John and Erica are really good friends. So if you and Erica were going somewhere together, which, I mean, I can't imagine anyway, but if you were, I wouldn't care. I sure wouldn't have to be like, guys, we need to set some rules. No cuddling. Gonna need two separate rooms to be like, yeah, already, like, I'm not sharing a room with anyone else of the opposite sex, including a female friend. Whatever. That's just weird. But he. Yeah. In his. In this story, you immediately got that Dexter, even though they've had these rules, he gets a little horny, I guess.
- [23:44]
B
Horny.
- [23:45]
A
Horny. During the trip, he tells her that the hotel only has one room with a double bed, even though they do have two rooms. And we know that because we hear him. We have the scene written out where he talks to the person, and she says, yeah, we have two rooms. He's like, oh, okay, great. And the next thing you know, next scene is they only had one room, so he's already kind of trying to push it and see what happens. So, you know, And I don't think anything happened on that trip. Yeah, they. You know, it didn't.
- [24:16]
B
They were skinny dipping together.
- [24:18]
A
Yeah, they went skinny tipping. But I'm just saying, like, they. There were moments where it seemed like something was going to happen.
- [24:24]
B
Right.
- [24:24]
A
And then it didn't. And I almost wanted something to at that point.
- [24:33]
B
But on the trip too, like if they near, like when they're in like bed together, he's like, I love you. She's like, what? And she's like, you love every girl? I was like, well, yeah, I guess I do love every girl.
- [24:43]
A
Yes.
- [24:44]
B
He's like, I'm just horny.
- [24:46]
A
He is that. Yeah. Let's talk about his character a little bit, because he is kind of the worst and he loves her so much. And then later when they get together, you know, it's the interesting trajectory of him being famous and getting blotto and being addicted to pills and alcohol and her just kind of being like this guy, but he's still my friend, but worries about him, but still checks in on him. And, and, and she's struggling and then she becomes incredibly successful. She writes. It's a children's book or teen fiction. Yeah, teen. Yeah, sorry. And she, she becomes incredibly successful. Their whole sort of dynamic shifts as far as that goes. When they actually end up getting together. He's no longer a TV presenter and she is doing really well for herself and has basically three signed on to a series of books and they're talking about an animated series and all this stuff. So she's doing pretty well. And then she gets hit by a car and dies.
- [25:50]
B
Okay, let's not jump ahead too much.
- [25:53]
A
Well, I'm just saying, by the time you've seen.
- [25:55]
B
It's interesting, the trajectory of both their lives in their careers. It's like Dex is like incredibly successful right off the top and he doesn't have his shit together whatsoever, but it's successful. And she has her shit together, but she's not successful.
- [26:13]
A
Right.
- [26:14]
B
You know, I think two chapters in a row it wakes up with, oh, she wakes up, listens to the radio, wakes up every morning at 6:30, listens to the radio, listen to NDR or whatever it is, and drinks 250 milliliters of water, which is 250 milliliters of her 1.5 liters of water that she drinks. Like she has her shit together, but she's not.
- [26:30]
A
Eats her fruits and vegetables. Yeah, she's not going anywhere where he has.
- [26:33]
B
Does not have a shit together. And he's like crushing it. And then as it keeps on going there it's chapter 11, 1997, when they're. What, what year would that be? They were like 31 years old at that point. It's where like that Chapter is where their life's, like, crossed. They don't really know it. Like, she has this big interview to become an author with an editor. And he goes into the office. They're like, your. Your show just got canceled. And she thinks she has this big interview. And it turns out they thought she was interviewing for a nanny job. So she goes in, she's like, this is a huge interview with this editor. And they're like, it's actually, I thought you were applying to be my nanny. And so at that point, it's like both their careers are kind of like in purgatory. And then it turns out that hers, like, it goes up from there and his just keeps on going down from there.
- [27:19]
A
Right.
- [27:20]
B
And that's right around when they're like 31 years old. And then it just, like, it keeps on going where they're kind of trying to like, oh, he's like the young hot guy that's on. On TV every day. Then all of a sudden it's like, oh, my hairline's going back. I'm losing some pounds. I don't have a jawline anymore. And she starts writing all these books and killing it. And I think part of that is I feel like they can't be together until she's successful. And his ego has been beaten down a little bit by Hollywood, even though it's not Hollywood.
- [27:49]
A
Right.
- [27:49]
B
Does that make sense?
- [27:50]
A
Yes.
- [27:52]
B
Because if they had gotten together anytime before, that wouldn't have worked out. He would have cheated on her. He was whatever. And she didn't.
- [27:56]
A
He would have blown it.
- [27:57]
B
She didn't quite have her confidence yet. When she started being succeed successful, that's when it took off.
- [28:04]
A
And because when she did become successful and he really wanted to be with her, I wondered if that was. If that dynamic shift was going to be a problem. But it didn't end up to be, which I liked it did. You know, I was. It didn't. You know, he wasn't. It's not like he turned into some raging because he couldn't handle her success or whatever. Like, he was always genuinely wanted the best for her, but. And she always wanted us for him.
- [28:33]
B
Right before that chapter is the first time when you see, like, Emma's kind of, like, lost. Started to lose her shit a little bit. Just kind of gets it back when she's, like, sleeping with the headmaster, which in the US we call, like, the principal.
- [28:42]
A
Right, right, yeah, she's sleeping with the headmaster, who's married or whatever.
- [28:47]
B
Yeah, yeah. And then she's like, she goes to the. She's just like, fudge this. And she goes to the liquor store, she buys a bunch of liquor and she's like smoking and she's walking out. And then one of her old students like comes up, turns like, oh, Miss Emma was like, oh, like, oh, like I looked up to you. And she kind of, she kind of had a moment there were like, I got to get my shit back together. Yeah, it was a very slow. It was a very, like one very small moment where she's like kind of. You thought she was starting to lose her shit and then she got it back.
- [29:14]
A
No, but that's interesting that you bring that up because that is. I didn't really think about when I was reading it. I liked how it was written because we have, yeah, we know that Emma is, you know, she drinks, she hangs out, she does her thing. But she is like, for the most part we see, she keeps her together, this net. So for her to have that kind of sliding doors moment where it could have gone one way and almost, almost like she could have gone his direction to where she. Instead she just saw like the disappointment in someone is in someone's eyes pretty quickly. And she's like, oh, Jesus Christ. Like this.
- [29:51]
B
I gotta button this up.
- [29:53]
A
Yeah. And speaking of that, Ian, her boyfriend.
- [29:59]
B
Oh, God, Ian.
- [30:00]
A
So Ian is a terrible comedian. I've known many of them. And Ian is, you know, his character is written to be that he wants to be a stand up comedian and he says things to her like, I've just written this bit about how men and women are different. She's like, awesome. Can't wait to hear it. And so, and, and so it's well written to know that he's coming up with the most cheesy sort of. He's like, I've written this bit about airline food basically, and he doesn't say that, but kind of, you know, so he is. But he loves her and.
- [30:40]
B
Yeah, he does. I don't think he's a bad guy.
- [30:43]
A
No.
- [30:43]
B
Annoying. It wasn't the right person for her.
- [30:46]
A
Right. And. And they ended up moving in together. They had worked together and then they end up moving in together. And he's her boyfriend and he's of course jealous of Dexter a little bit because he knows they've always had this connection. And so that comes up a little bit in her. And him and Dexter can't really be big buddies because of it. But when they break up, there's a moment where he comes to the place because they live there together and he is really Sad about the breakup. And really she's moved on and she's just in. And he basically is like, who are you seeing? And that's when she's banging the Dean or the headmaster, whatever you call it. And she ends up telling him that she is. And he doesn't even believe her. He thinks that she made that up because it sounds so far fetched for her. He's like, no, tell me who you're really banging. And she's like, no. Really? Okay, well, never mind. But there's this. He gets really kind of crazy during that scene. And I. That's another thing where I thought, like, this is gonna escalate, something up is gonna happen, he's gonna hit her, something weird's gonna happen. But then it really. He ends up just breaking down and he's like, I'm sorry I'm such a mess. I just miss you. And then. And she's like, I know, and I'm sorry that I. I can't love you back and kind of thing. And they end up kind of hugging it out. And I just thought that was an interesting character.
- [32:08]
B
Yeah, he even, he's like, oh, I read your diaries or your journal or whatever. And he's like, he's like, I was so basically just saying, I'm so jealous, I couldn't handle it. But there, there's a moment during their relationship near the end where she's already kind of annoyed with them. And today we'd call it the ick. But now it's like, there's always like that one moment relationship where you're like, that was the moment where I knew. And it's the night when she's doing Oliver and he wakes up and he has, he's sick. In the morning, he comes to the bathroom and he says, I have an upset tummy. Oh, that's when you know, you know what I mean? Like, there's just some things that grown men can't say. They can't have to pee. I have to pee. I have an upset tummy. Guys, if you want to give the girl the ick, say stuff like that.
- [32:55]
A
Say stuff like that. And also I would like to add, don't say. And you know, I don't like this word.
- [33:02]
B
What?
- [33:03]
A
I don't want you to say I have to pee. I also don't want to say I got to take a piss. I don't. Don't. Why would you do that, John? Why would you say that?
- [33:11]
B
I just say I have to go to the bathroom. I don't even say that sometimes they just disappear for 90 seconds. No one in the room even fucking knows.
- [33:18]
A
Exactly. It's not why we have sex on the red. Okay.
- [33:25]
B
Yeah.
- [33:25]
A
Because I don't hear him say, I gotta take a pee. Or I. I do kind of joke and say. I sometimes say, I have to make you.
- [33:33]
B
You. You're joking. Then I say, I'm joking.
- [33:35]
A
And now,
- [33:39]
B
yo, I gotta go pee. I go.
- [33:40]
A
You go make a p. So, I'm sorry, we shouldn't.
- [33:43]
B
This is.
- [33:45]
A
Anyway, that could get a lot of people also.
- [33:47]
B
But we don't. We don't fart in front of each other. We don't use the same bathroom. We have separate bathrooms inside of our primary suite or primary bedroom. What do you call it?
- [33:56]
A
Yes.
- [33:58]
B
I don't want to know reasons why we have. Yeah, but if regular intercourse.
- [34:02]
A
If we ever. If I woke up and John said, hold on, I gotta go take a dump, I would. Then my vagina would crawl up inside itself. It can't crawl. But it would. It would learn to.
- [34:12]
B
It would.
- [34:13]
A
And.
- [34:14]
B
Yeah. Sahara Desert.
- [34:16]
A
So, yeah. So you just have to. I. Listen. You guys do you. But my suggestion is we'll keep doing us. We'll keep doing us, and we're gonna. I'm not gonna. Don't say. Just don't say. To a woman, I gotta go take a piss. I don't like it.
- [34:35]
B
Well, I think it's worse. I gotta go pee. Well, you're a grown.
- [34:38]
A
Well, don't say either. Just say. You just gotta say, I have to use the restroom and go to the restroom, wash your hands and come back.
- [34:46]
B
Listen, listen. If we're out for dinner, you and I are out for dinner, and I randomly stand up. There's a pretty good. Guess what I need to go do. It's use the restroom. I don't need to announce it. I'm not going outside for a siggy. All right. Because I don't smoke ciggies. I'm not going to take a call because no one calls me ever. I'm just going to use the restroom. No announcement needed.
- [35:10]
A
If. If you got up and went out and smoked a cigarette, I would be like, what just happened?
- [35:18]
B
Like, anyway, got to go smoke a sticky. Have a quick bump in the B room. I'll be back.
- [35:27]
A
Okay. Anyway. Well, that was a fun rant. Ian gave her the ick. But then they ended up having. You know, this is what you see with Emma. Her tra. Her trajectory, other than with the headmaster, I guess, is like, she's not an
- [35:44]
B
even.
- [35:44]
A
With Ian. She was Gentle. She even forgave him for acting like a weirdo reading her journal. She's just like, I get, I know that you're miserable, but you're just not.
- [35:54]
B
She's a very understanding person.
- [35:56]
A
Very understanding to a little too understanding. Probably at times didn't understand to look left and right before the car came.
- [36:05]
B
Oh, boy. Too soon.
- [36:07]
A
I know. No, I, I. Okay, so that part I do want to talk about.
- [36:13]
B
Okay.
- [36:14]
A
That. Felt like after she died, there were a lot of pages left.
- [36:28]
B
Well,
- [36:30]
A
I just want your opinion. We're just talking. We're having a book review.
- [36:34]
B
There's only a couple chapters left.
- [36:36]
A
It felt long. I felt like 1, 2, 3, 4, 4 chapter.
- [36:42]
B
Five chapters left after she dies.
- [36:43]
A
Okay. That's a lot. And because it was already 400 something pages by then, it felt like. So if you need a refresher after she passes away, there's a lot of reflection. He takes his daughter to, like, where they went to college. Right. Like her old apartment. There's a lot of reflection. His wife as ex wife who had cheated on him is now actually super understanding and cool because she understands that she effed up pretty badly by.
- [37:19]
B
And his new girlfriend is. Seems cool with it too.
- [37:21]
A
Yeah. And his new girlfriend knows that this one day, which we go back to the title of the book and the whole theme is something that he reflects on. I think it's been two years. I think we go one and two years. Right by the end, probably could have just done one. But it just. No, I just, I'm telling you, it just felt like, you know, you, you've been to many comedy shows, right?
- [37:50]
B
Yes.
- [37:51]
A
At this point, you've seen a lot of comedians and you know, when they're going on too long. Myself excluded from this. Yeah. Because I never go on too long because I know when to get the fuck out of there. But you've seen where you go. Wrap it up. John's seen me with my, you know, I've had some, I have some amazing features I've worked with, but every once in a while you get one where you're like, wrap it up, buddy. It's not going great anymore. And also, your time's up. Give them the light. Give it again. Wrap it up. And that's an extreme example. But I just, I did feel like I struggled, to be honest, to get through the last couple chapters. It just felt a little bit drawn out and I wasn't sure what the point was. Okay, this is not a personal attack just because you picked the book. I know you take it as one.
- [38:46]
B
Do you think it was weird that Ian wrote her letter, wrote him a letter on the one year anniversary of his wife's death? Was that, was that nice or was that weird?
- [38:56]
A
I actually thought it was nice. I thought it was nice. And I, I see you avoiding the question of whe, whether or not you thought it went on too long, but I, I thought it was nice.
- [39:06]
B
I, I didn't think it went on too long. Go.
- [39:08]
A
Okay, it was probably weird, but I did think it was nice because they didn't have a good, you know, connection or relationship. So in some ways you go, that's just weird or self indulgent. But it felt to me that, that he was really acknowledging who Emma's true love was and sort of giving grace to all of it and thinking and, and I don't know, I think she would have liked it. Emma, I felt like, wanted everyone to
- [39:43]
B
get along and like Ian for a long time too. Right?
- [39:46]
A
Yeah. And I think. And she truly cared about him. You could see. I mean if she didn't care about Ian when he had the meltdown at her at their old apartment, she would have said, get the out of here, you absolute psycho. And don't ever, you know, and so the, the way that scene ended, which is another shout out to how well it written these characters are and like how well rounded they were by, by David Nichols. Like you, you know how much she cares about him just as a human being. And you. And, and the minute he feels like he might be a psycho because of this, because I was like, I didn't see that coming. I thought he was just a bad comedian. I didn't think he was a psycho. But the minute you think he is, he's. She and him have that conversation where he's like snot nosed and crying and just like, I'm sorry, I don't know, I just miss you. And, and you completely realize like, oh, he's not violent, he's not a dick, he's just fudgeing going through it.
- [40:46]
B
In that letter he says that he has a wife and three kids now. And he said when he met his wife, he took her as his future wife. He took her to one of his comedy shows. And after the show she said, you're not a comedian, you need to quit. He goes, that's when I fell in love. That's when I first knew I loved her. I was like, that's pretty cool.
- [41:03]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think. Are you trying to say that to me right now? Just.
- [41:11]
B
Yes, you've been doing it for 25 years, hundreds of shows.
- [41:15]
A
He. No, I just think that I did like that. I liked that, that there was a little bit of a relationship between them at the end because like you said, she was with Ian for a long time and of course Dexter was the real love of her life. But I think our Emma, who we did grow to love throughout this very long book, was. Would have been pleased that they had some. Had some contact. What did you think? Did you think it was weird?
- [41:46]
B
At first I thought it was weird, but the way you just put it, I think it's. I think that you're right. Emma would have liked it, wouldn't appreciated it because they didn't. Never got along. They always butted heads a little bit just because of their. The mutual Emma in between them.
- [42:02]
A
Okay, quick question. It has nothing to do with the storyline, but something that's been on my mind to ask you for pretty much every book that we've read and I always forget to bring it up. Why do authors use the term padding so much? Padding down the stairs, she patted into the kitchen, she patted down the walkway, she patted this, she patted that. I googled it because they say it all the time.
- [42:35]
B
I've honestly never noticed it.
- [42:37]
A
Oh, well, now you're going to notice it because I brought it up.
- [42:39]
B
Okay.
- [42:40]
A
Okay. Authors frequently use the verb pad or padding. Describe walking. It specifically conveys a soft, quiet and often barefoot or slipper clad movement which adds sensory detail and intimacy to a scene. While some readers find it's overuse a cliche like maybe this one does. It is a popular alternative to simply say walked, which I could see. I guess you, I mean, I, I do know. I. Listen. I've written a couple books you can buy. Find them on Sarah Colonna.com please purchase them. I. I know that you don't want to use a word over and over and that you try to find alternatives, but now I feel like everyone just uses the word padding over and over. She patted down the stairs, she patted here, she patted there.
- [43:26]
B
Okay, well.
- [43:28]
A
Oh, you're gonna notice it now. There's a, There's a Facebook post that comes up when I put it into Google. Please tell me I'm not the only one. So in books, why do they have to pad? Can't they walk? For the love of God, stop padding. I love it. So I'm wondering if anyone else notice. It's in. It's in. This is in every single book. This is not a David Nichols thing. This is in every single book, period. I already know that. I highlighted it a couple times in. In Little secrets that we're reading for April. As a reminder, your Patreon short story hasn't been announced yet, but it'll be announced on Patreon at the very beginning of the month, as it always is. But yeah, it's. I don't know. You didn't notice it. So this conversation went nowhere, I guess.
- [44:17]
B
I'm sorry, but I do want to go back to one topic that I. I start here. That was in the very first chapter. Okay, so he's laying with her in bed after they do whatever. We don't really know. There's maybe fooling around, whatever. Finger, a little finger bang blast. A little hand gibber, little butthole play.
- [44:36]
A
And
- [44:39]
B
his headset in his head, he goes, should I compliment her on her tremendous tits? He goes, no, a guy can't even say that anymore. And that's what made me. Because this is 1988, this is 38 years ago, and guys are still saying that stuff like, oh, I can't even comment on her tits anymore. I was like, so that made me realize it's like on the very first day, God created breasts. On the very second day, men are like, oh, I can't even talk about her breasts in public anymore. Oh my God. Like, I realized that this has been going on forever. So guys, stop saying that. Oh, I can't even comment on this. I can't even say this to a woman anymore. Like there's some kind of like weird fantasy world where guys used to just be able to walk around, just comment on girls bodies openly all over the place. And that was acceptable. I know guys still do. It's not acceptable. I'm saying guys think that there was some kind of mythical amazing world back in the day where you just walk around, go, nice titties, nice boobs. That never existed.
- [45:36]
A
Right? It's been a problem.
- [45:37]
B
This made me realize that that like, it, it. It's gone on forever. It's never been appropriate. You fucking idiots. Oh, I got a guy can't even tell a girl she has nice tits anymore. Oh my God. Where will that day happen? It's never. The day never existed. I wished it.
- [45:56]
A
I wish you guys could have seen John just doing it like he was you the way he just did. Oh, oh, guy can't even.
- [46:01]
B
It's gonna be a rotten Dangerfield.
- [46:03]
A
Oh, it was like a Rodney Dangerfield meets Andrew Dice Clay body.
- [46:07]
B
Oh my God.
- [46:08]
A
Takeover.
- [46:09]
B
Oh, I only want to be one of those people I know.
- [46:12]
A
It was pretty good. I'll mark this. Maybe we'll do a second little oh, God. Clip out of it.
- [46:16]
B
I don't want that mark. But it's not. That's what made me realize that 40 years ago there. It's been so much lately, like, oh, God, can't even say this anymore. God, you never could.
- [46:28]
A
Yeah, you never could. You never should.
- [46:30]
B
You never.
- [46:31]
A
You can tell me I have nice tits because I like it. Okay, well, there's. It's not a. It's not an episode of the book list because John pulls out creepy old man.
- [46:48]
B
Let me just end this with my last question.
- [46:50]
A
Yes.
- [46:51]
B
So when they go back in the very last chapter, how the very last chapter is actually the day after the first chapter or the day of the first chapter, right. Where they go to go for a hike and whatever. And then he's like, why don't you come back to my place? And they're walking back to his place the whole time. She's like, oh, my God. Like, we're going to. We're going to screw. We're going to hook up. We're going to do this. And then her parents kind of interrupt his show up in their car and interrupt.
- [47:15]
A
Yes.
- [47:16]
B
Okay, so here's my two questions. Had his parents never shown up and they just had gone and hooked up, it probably would have never gone anywhere ever again. It probably been over. Do you think?
- [47:27]
A
Yes.
- [47:29]
B
The second one is the when they
- [47:31]
A
do come would have been a much shorter book.
- [47:33]
B
Yes. So his parents do come out, and then he's like, okay, well, I'll see you, Emma. She's like, okay, I'll see you. And she starts walking away. She's like, oh, well, I mean, I guess I'll never see him again. This is literally the last, you know, two pages of the book.
- [47:47]
A
Yeah, I did like it. I liked the way it wrapped up.
- [47:50]
B
Okay, whatever. And then he comes out, he goes, hey, like, can I get your number? And so if not. And then it got me thinking. Like, I think we talked about an earlier podcast. Like, little moments like that could then change the trajectory of your entire life. If I never would ask Matt Ross Matthews. Hook me up with Sarah Colonna in that one moment when I was running off the football field. This might have never happened.
- [48:12]
A
Yes, I do. Like, you mean this podcast.
- [48:16]
B
Well, just this whole love affair.
- [48:20]
A
I. I did. Like, I liked. That's the part that I liked about the ending was like, going back to that day and hearing what we didn't hear at the beginning and sort of seeing the nervousness they both had and how much they both really did like each other. Because at the beginning, when it's written, he's like, oh, how long should I stay? Because usually they get mad when I leave. And so all you think of is like, douchebag, Douchebag, douchebag.
- [48:46]
B
And then he's like, I'm gonna call my parents and see if I can maybe get them to stay longer. Then he calls the time lady, and it's like, it's all fake.
- [48:53]
A
Yeah. So then.
- [48:54]
B
Getting a lot of douchebag vibes.
- [48:56]
A
Yeah. And so. And then at the end, we find out that there was, like, this real attraction for. On both their. On both of them. And so I did like how that wrapped up.
- [49:07]
B
And then you realize that he was doing all this, like, douchebaggery, because it was almost like just his habit.
- [49:13]
A
Yes.
- [49:14]
B
Is that he would hang out with a girl or do whatever. And then, like, out of habit, he'd, like, find a way to get out. And so he was doing that out of habit. And then you realize in the last chapter that that's what it was. Just have it. When he didn't really want to do that and he wanted to actually hang out with her.
- [49:27]
A
Yes.
- [49:31]
B
That put a nice bow on the whole thing, baby.
- [49:33]
A
It did. Listen, I liked it. I think I would. I would for sure read more by this author. I don't.
- [49:41]
B
Just the Coles notes. Read the Coles notes next time, baby.
- [49:44]
A
I read the Coles notes, even though I don't know what those are. But that's like Cliff Notes, right?
- [49:48]
B
Cliff Notes. Coles Notes in Canada.
- [49:49]
A
Clips. Cliff Notes.
- [49:51]
B
It's just. It's the same as Cole's notes, Just more expensive and more taxes I am
- [49:56]
A
gonna give for me.
- [50:02]
B
Oh, boy.
- [50:03]
A
Out of five martinis, I'm gonna give it three.
- [50:06]
B
Oh, okay. I'll give it 11. Out of 12 beers.
- [50:09]
A
Okay. And I don't think I've gone to a three before. And again, this is not. I thought it was a lot that I liked. There was just a. I just. I would have. There's some cutting around I would have done maybe for my taste. But I enjoyed the story very much. I thought the characters were incredibly well developed. I was. I was. I was hooked on their story. I should clarify. Like, I was very much like, where is this going? What's going to happen with these two? And to both of their separate personal lives and their personal life, I guess, together. So. Thank you for introducing us to David Nichols, John.
- [50:57]
B
You're welcome. You're welcome.
- [50:59]
A
And book listeners. Facebook group. That's where we discuss all things that we want. You can post whatever. Well, I mean, don't post whatever. Nobody wants to see your dick, but you know what I mean. Book list on Instagram. Little Secrets by Jennifer Hillier is your April book. Join us on patreon. It's only $5 a month. Super fun content. And next week you will have an episode. Fifth Monday, Bonus Monday. John has ideas. Look forward to it.
- [51:29]
B
Yep.
- [51:30]
A
Bye.
- [51:31]
B
Bye.
- [51:32]
A
The Book List.
- [51:33]
B
The book lisp.
- [51:36]
A
The Book list.
- [51:37]
B
The book lisp.
- [51:38]
A
The book list.