“Sometimes I Lie” Full Discussion

Summary

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The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Episode: “Sometimes I Lie” Full Discussion

Date: August 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna dive deep into Alice Feeney’s twisty psychological thriller, Sometimes I Lie. They unpack the novel's labyrinthine plot, grapple with unreliable narrators, explore character motivations, and candidly share both confusion and admiration for the story’s many layers and ambiguous ending. The discussion is lively, informal, and peppered with both personal anecdotes and genuine attempts to make sense of the book’s most shocking turns.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Initial Impressions & Format

• [03:54] Sarah kicks off with her overall love for the book and notes that the plot twists greatly affected rereading:

  “I loved the book… when the twist comes that you realize Claire is... it’s Claire’s diary, not Taylor’s.”

• Jon admits to being so surprised by the major twist that he needed to pause and literally map character relationships on paper:

  “I wrote Amber, Taylor, Claire to, like, sort it out because I was like, I’m screwing up my head again.” (05:12)

• Both hosts highlight Alice Feeney’s meticulous plotting and foreshadowing, noting the impact of a good audio narration on their experience.

2. Character Confusion & Unreliable Narration

• [07:10 & 08:25] Sarah discusses the significance of obsessive counting and threes, both as character quirks and narrative clues.
• The duo explores how Feeney expertly blurs the identities of Amber, Taylor, and Claire, continually forcing readers to question character reliability.
• [09:08] Sarah delves into the questionable motives behind Amber’s pursuit of revenge, asking if she was manipulated by Claire or acting of her own volition.

3. Major Plot Twists & Theories

• Twist #1 – The Diary’s Author: The discovery that the diary presumed to be Amber’s is actually Claire's upends reader expectations and prompts both hosts to revisit earlier events in a new light.
• Revenge & Identity:

  “She was already ready to frame Madeline for Claire’s murder. So... she was planning to murder Claire pretty early on, right?” — Sarah [11:32]

• Paul’s Role: Both question Paul’s transparency and love for Amber, questioning his erratic behavior and if he knew more than he let on.
• Claire’s Intent: The pivotal car crash—was Claire purposely trying to kill Amber? Both revisit the details and swap theories.

  “[Claire’s] driving the stick shift… going faster and faster, when [Amber’s] like, slow down… led me to believe that she was purposely crashing.” — Jon [20:46]

4. The Ending: Open Questions & Wild Theories

• [23:18] Sarah outlines the ambiguous final vacation scenes: Is someone stalking Amber? Did Claire escape the fire? Did Paul read the diaries and is now tormenting her?
• Bracing for the Bracelet: The sudden reappearance of Claire’s bracelet sparks fierce debate on whether Claire is alive, Edward is still a threat, or Paul is playing mind games.

  “Are we to believe that she got out and is now, like, stalking her...?” — Sarah [23:24]

• Jon ponders: is Paul now complicit or controlling, using knowledge from the diaries against Amber?

  “Could it be Paul? And he’s trying to keep her in line and... put a power move...” — Jon [24:08]

• [29:01] Both acknowledge the deliberate ambiguity: “It’s a choose your own adventure in some ways, right?” — Sarah
• The phrase “sometimes I lie” is dissected for clues, suggesting the book’s resolution purposely keeps the truth murky.

5. Thematic Deep Dive

• Toxic Family and Identity:
  • The hosts empathize with the psychological damage inflicted by parents and failed sibling relationships.
  • Sarah observes:

    “No wonder both these women were so messed up.” [19:39]

• Imaginary Friends & Easter Eggs:
  • Jon notes the psychological instability:

    “If you have an imaginary friend when you’re like in your mid-30s, you’re having like a mental breakdown.” [48:49]

• Recurrent motifs like “threes,” the color red, and missing objects are called out as clever foreshadowing or red herrings.

6. Edward’s Subplot

• [41:30] Both question the need for the Edward subplot, ultimately suggesting he represents another aspect of Claire’s destructive influence and the book’s psychological dread.

• “Is he just another representation of something that Claire did that almost ruined her life?” — Sarah [42:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Big Twist

  “The turn of events, the big twist was so much that I pretty much had to put down the book… I had to completely rethink the entire book to that point.” — Jon (05:01)

• On Ambiguity

  “This is the most unsatisfying book review anyone’s ever done... if you aren’t quite sure what happened at the end, you’re not alone, but you’re free to make up your own, choose your own adventure.” — Sarah (50:22)

• On Rewarding Complexity

  “I really love a book that makes me think and that I don’t quite... and then there could be different theories...” — Sarah (45:19)

• On Paul’s Creepiness

  “You couldn’t pay me enough to read a fricking 13- or 11-year-old girl’s diary. That's the creepiest thing I’ve ever heard.” — Jon (31:58)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:02 – Episode introduction and setup
• 03:54 – Initial impressions, Sarah’s Goodreads/Reddit research
• 05:01 – Jon’s reaction to the plot twist
• 07:10 – Discussion of reliability, character OCD, and motif of threes
• 08:25 & 09:08 – Alice Feeney’s foreshadowing and character clues
• 11:32 – Amber’s plan to murder Claire and set up Madeline
• 20:15–21:05 – The car crash and Claire’s intentions
• 23:18–29:01 – Post-ending debate, bracelet mystery, and open questions
• 31:01–32:19 – Paul’s odd behavior and the diary-reading scene
• 41:30 & 42:49 – Edward’s subplot and its impact/themes
• 45:19 – Reflections on loving an ambiguous ending
• 50:22 – Invitation to audience discussion and final review ratings

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Final Thoughts & Listener Engagement

• Both hosts rate the book highly for its ability to spark discussion and leave them perplexed:
  • Jon: “11 out of 12 beers” [51:03]
  • Sarah: “5 out of 5 cocktails” [51:07]
• They strongly encourage listeners to join their Facebook group and weigh in with theories.
• Sarah sums up the episode’s spirit:

  “And just because I’m confused doesn’t have anything to do with not loving it.” [51:13]

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Next Episode Teaser

• Next month’s pick: The Wedding People
• Weekly episodes build toward a full-review in week four.

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For in-depth debate and more listener theories, check out the Book Lispners Facebook group or interact via Instagram and Patreon!

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List. The Book Lisp. Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Oh, hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. It's week four, which means we finally get to talk about my effed up pick, Sometimes I Lie by Alice Feeney. Hi, John.

[B]

Hello. You're excited about you.

[A]

I am. How do you like my setup?

[B]

It's fine. No, it looks like you're in a set. It looks like you're in a sad hotel, but I know you're not.

[A]

No, I'm not. I'm in a nice hotel. The mjm, the Signature. That's where they put me up in Vegas when I do Brad Garrett's club. Club. It's great. But I kind of had to, you know, you have to sort of rig yourself a little podcast spot. And so I'm in front of a window, but then the curtain's brown and I didn't like that. So I've got just the white thing. You'll see when you see a clip, you guys, you'll see that it's not ideal. It's not. It's not a fancy studio, but we do what we can. We. So to keep pumping off the podcast, no matter where I am.

[B]

Oh, it's hot here.

[A]

It is. Yeah, it's hot here, too.

[B]

Hotter there. Oh, 97 right now.

[A]

Well, that's going to be nice for our. Well, it's going to be warm for our pool party. We're having a pool party next weekend. It's going to be warm for that.

[B]

But 89 would be nice.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, don't forget. So this is the last week of August, which is crazy. And then the September pick is the Wedding People, which I've been reading and really enjoying. Trying to read it a little slower than I normally read because I realize I finished the books too early. And then I have to refresh my memory, which we talked a little bit about on Patreon. So on the book list, we have a Patreon, and we always put out episodes on the 5th, the 15th, and the 25th. So today being the full book review is the 25th. There's also a Patreon, and we discussed a little bit about that. If you want to hear my. My woes, that actually turned out to be pretty good re listening to it. I actually quite, quite enjoyed listening to it. I think I might be getting into audible Books all of a sudden. More than I used to.

[B]

Yeah, this is a good audible book.

[A]

Yeah, the narrator was really good and it was just interesting to listen to it after reading it so that I knew what was coming. And you hear it, you kind of listen to it with a different perspective. And we talked a little bit about that on patreon too. It's $5 a month. We also do other stuff. We do a short story every 15th. We've done bonus chapters. We've done these. Just different fun stuff. It's really fun over there. You can support US$5 a month if you'd like. Rate, review and subscribe. I had to move my show in the Woodlands in Texas to November 14th, so I'd love to see you guys there. I'm probably going to add something and maybe in September, October, but we're traveling a bunch, so I'm not sure. It's kind of depends on anything that can is open while I'm actually home, but November 14th at the Woodlands and then I can't believe I'm already saying New Year's Eve, but New Year's Eve, Spokane Comedy Club, Tacoma Comedy Club, January 2nd and 3rd, and then in February I'm in Chicago and St. Louis at the City Wineries. So all that's on my website and would love to see you guys there. I would love for you guys to pack the Woodlands for me since I had to reschedule it because I'm hoping all the people that had bought tickets before are still coming and maybe it's even easier for you to come because it's November. Okay. It's at Do Si do. So I'm so excited. Okay. Let's just dive in. John. Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. There's a lot to talk about. Yeah. Well, I spent this morning actually on Reddit and Goodreads reading people's some people's thoughts about the ending because I, I, there's some things I, I didn't really think about until I like, listened back. Anyway, overall, I, I loved the book. I thought it, I think specifically this, the stuff that she sets up that you, that, that then when the twist comes that you realize Claire is. It's Claire's diary, not Taylor's.

[B]

Because Taylor is Amber and Amber is Taylor.

[A]

Amber. Yeah. And all of that becomes pretty. It's just, it threw me for a loop. I was of course expecting that it was setting up how, how this girl was all effed up and that's why she was Taylor and blah, blah, blah. Now just set up another effed up Girl. But. But I really liked that aspect of it. I think that I'm definitely going to read more by this author for sure.

[B]

And as I said earlier when we couldn't talk about it, but the turn of events, the big twist was so much that I pretty much had to put down the book and kind of like, rethink it. Because I was thinking one way, I had to completely rethink the entire book to that point. When you found out that it wasn't Amber's diary, that Amber's Taylor and Claire is actually writing the diary, it flips everything on its head. And like, literally, even when I went back and I listened to it again the second time, after a half an hour, I had to stop and literally on a piece of paper, I wrote Amber, Taylor, Claire to, like, sort it out because I was like, I'm screwing up my head again because I got so sucked in. So twist is amazing.

[A]

Twist is amazing. We'll get to that. I don't want to, you know, we don't go in like, order of the book or anything. I don't want to get too quite into the ending yet, but I. I still have questions. Right. And I'm really excited. I want to discuss your theory about the ending, but I want to talk about other stuff first. Like her. The ocd, which I can totally relate to, of everything, is three times. She even talks in threes, but so does Claire, which is interesting, right? Because in Claire's diary, she says there are three, you know, three things that she does a lot of threes in there. But she does the locking the door three times. She does the turning of the oven on and off three times. And I am someone who does that with my alarm clock and someone who does that when I. When you're not home. I usually do a little bit of checking around the house three times before I go to bed. It's just I can relate to that aspect of it. And I just don't want everyone to think that everyone that counts things three times is also a psychopathic murderer who might or might not burn her sister up.

[B]

Well, not yet. But yeah, I think it adds to it that. Because you can't really tell who's who. When you look back between Claire and Amber. They're kind of the same person in a way, right?

[A]

And I think so. Even Claire writing that stuff in her diary, like, there are three reasons for. Blah, blah, blah. So that's another reason you for sure think it's Taylor, right? Because you know that she, as an adult, she does all These things in her three times I. There were a lot of little things that like you said, when you question it, when you know the twist and you start questioning things. But she covered her. She knew she's a great writer. So it's not like she made any mistakes there. I mean, everything was there. It was like when the. There was. I remember there was something about guests. A guest that had been maybe on Taylor show before or something. And then she. And then this person is like fawning over Madeline but they don't remember Taylor. And she's like, oh, I guess I'm easy to forget. Well, if she was on the show, the person would have known her. Right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So the fact that she's a PA is kind of is right there. And the things. Like a little bit of what I mentioned on Patreon, like. Oh, the. The. The. The first scene where you meet Joe, people are staring at her. She says she's being too loud. Not for a second did you realize they're staring at her because she's talking to absolutely nobody else. Yeah.

[B]

Joe's not real self.

[A]

Joe's not real. And there were things like the. Just like a lot of little things like that were. Were well thought out because clearly Alice Feeny had a. Knew exactly what she was writing and where it was going. Because she's.

[B]

I know one thing. It was like she was saying like, oh, this job is like so far beneath me type thing. I was like, why. Why is it beneath you? Like you're. But that she was trying to say like, oh. Cause she used to be on TV and now she's on radio.

[A]

So Right.

[B]

First I was like, why is that beneath. Like this is a good job. Like you're a radio host. But then she tried to play it off like because she was on tv. And then you figure out because she's saying that because now she's a PA and not actually on air talent and.

[A]

She'S a PA only because. And she only got the job so she could get revenge on Madeline for Claire.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's the one thing I don't feel resolution with. Because then there's the scene towards. Of. Well, there's a few things I don't feel resolution with, but I'm not mad at it. I just don't. There's some things I'm interested to see everyone's take on. And we have the book Lispners Facebook group too. So discuss in there. When I post the photo of. Of the episode being up today, I'd love to hear your Theories and everything in the comments now that we can all talk about it. But so when, when they're at that like Christmas market, Amber and Claire, and she says, now that I've done what you asked, leave Paul alone. And when there's another time when she's yeah. When she's talking to Claire about. She's like, is it done? You know Madeline? And she's like, yeah, it's done. She says, well what, what was her reaction when you told her? And she says, well, I just handled it my way. So basically she was saying, you know, the way she got her fired and did all that thing she did her. She did it her own way. Maybe didn't tell her whatever Claire wanted her to tell her, but she. We're supposed to assume that Claire kind of forced Amber to take this revenge.

[B]

I guess for her. And what. But did. Do you think Claire wanted her to be like. You know, when Amber's like I took care of it my own way.

[A]

Did.

[B]

Was Claire saying like I wanted you to like confront her and be like you're. You're Claire's godmother and you screwed her and like you.

[A]

I think so. Because she said what was, you know, what was her reaction when you told her is what she said or something like that. Basically like you were. She was going to right. You know, out her or tell her. I don't know. So that was a little bit kind of confusing. And then, and then I'm thinking like, okay, so did she do all of this for Claire? But then the whole time she was. When she took Madeline home and we just. She got her get petrol card and all that, she was already ready to frame Madeline for Claire's murder. So it's like she, she was planning to murder Claire pretty early on, right?

[B]

Hmm. I never thought of that because that's what's sort of.

[A]

Because you know all that stuff, all the things that happened with Meline happened before the coma and she talks about how she wiped down the steering wheel and she did this and she did that and she got the ghost and she asked about the CCTV and so she, she was already setting Madeline up for something and what she did was frame her for burning down Claire's house. So, you know, I guess we're supposed to believe she was planning this all along, right?

[B]

And she. Oh yeah, I think that. But yeah, it means that she's been planning it for a while because it happened before the whatever the one week coma that she was in. She'd already been planning it. Interesting. Also, if you're going to commit a crime at a place, don't go back and ask how long you keep the CCTV for. Oh, just by the way, that's the most random. If you go to a gas station. Oh, by the way, like, how long do you guys keep that surveillance video for? Seven days. Great seeing. Eight days. Not a great criminal mind there.

[A]

And she said the guy didn't even ask. He was like. He wasn't even like, why or anything. I was. If someone asked me something like that. Oh, how long is your. How long do you call.

[B]

Yeah, and then I call the FBI.

[A]

Yeah, I'll. Well, there's. So there's a lot of. Around those things that I have questions about that that I want to ask more when we get to the ending. But first of all, Paul is. There's a few things that people could have done to help her out. Claire's husband. When. I mean, when am Paul's. Amber goes over, well, Paul's a dipshit, but when Amber goes over to, To. To Claire's and Paul's car is in the driveway and we're kind of being led to think like maybe there's something going on with them, but really later we find out, well, the car was just in the driveway because he, He. Her husband works on cars and he was doing. He was fixing something for her for him or whatever. And he goes, like, when, when Amber asks, says Paul's car is in the driveway, he just kind of looks at it. He doesn't say, yeah, because I'm doing such and such for him. Instead he just, like, he could have cleared all that up right then. I mean, I know that that's not what the author wanted to do, but it just. There's a little bit of a hole, like why he didn't say something, but I guess he got distracted by when he said, oh, I thought Claire was with you. And, and then Paul, I, I feel like I have a lot of questions about Paul because first of all, in the beginning, you know, he's telling her, you know, he thinks she's acting weird every time she's in front of the oven and he's like, stop doing that. That's crazy. And blah, blah, blah. And it's clear that they've grown apart and it's, She's. It's clear that. I mean, she does say at the beginning too, my husband doesn't love me anymore. When she lists the three things. And then. And so I think that's the lie because her husband clearly is. Loves her because he Goes from seeming like a big turd to getting a book thing and then being like, I love you so much. Come with me. Let's go travel the world. And, you know, all of a sudden he does a real flip. So I guess that's. I guess. I guess the. The not love part is like. Is just in Amber's head.

[B]

Yeah, I think so. But also he's acting shady with. I mean, if you found a bag of lingerie in my. In my closet that wasn't in your size, you'd be like, what the fuck?

[A]

Yeah, right?

[B]

Like, literally one time you. One time you called me or texted me. You didn't call me. You text me and said, what size is my bra?

[A]

That's true. John knows my bra size. And I forget it. I was shopping and I was like. And I guess I probably had a bra and probably could have looked, but it was just easier to ask John.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And then the car and then the. The acting is kind of shady with Claire. Like she comes over and Claire's with Paul and then they act all shady about it.

[A]

Yeah, there's a couple times that. Yeah, there's a couple times that. That didn't. We didn't find out why she was over there and her favorite wine was there and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Different things. So. Well, you know what? So let's just talk about that, because this is what. I don't care if I'm going to the end already, because I want to discuss this. So unless. I mean, it doesn't matter, right? We're going. We go all over the place with this. So he. He's so in love. Suddenly after the book sells and, you know, he doesn't listen, this guy. I feel like you would notice if someone attacked me and put their hands around my throat and did all these things to me and then just walked out the door. And then you were home. I feel like I. You would notice. I just think I'd be too.

[B]

Yeah, I think I'd be tuned in enough.

[A]

Yeah. The whole Edward of it all, you know, that was a tough scene in the hospital. Clearly the thing that got filmed and.

[B]

Yeah, listening to it was worse than reading it.

[A]

I know the. The Edward of it all. It almost. It. It made for compelling because it made for. Why she was in the coma longer. He was medicating her. He had it out for her. It was just a little. It was almost like one extra thing that I wasn't sure needed to be. I mean, I know why it needed to be there, but also just this guy who's been stalking her for all this time because she almost ruined his life. But really, we find out it was Claire who was writing letters. Yeah. So I think it was also just a way of letting us know this is another way that Claire almost ruined her life because Claire took her mom and dad away, basically by killing her own mother and father and then them deciding to foster Claire, which again, when we first think they're sisters. Great writing by Alice Feeney, where things were like, oh, every at. When Claire first arrived, she was always crying and screaming and nothing was first born. Yeah.

[B]

But I think she even says when she brought her home from the hospital.

[A]

There was a point she said something about brought her home from the hospital.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I wonder if that was. Yeah. After the fire where they were checking her out or something. Right? Yeah, but. Because for a second I was like, oh, is that a mistake? But no. However, the. We're led to believe that Taylor slash Amber has this amazing mom and dad and they're so loving, while Claire has this terrible, shitty one. And then they get. We listen to her talk to her mom about kids, and she's like, you're too selfish to have kids. I didn't want you. I thought you ruined my life when you were first born. I'm like, this woman sucks, too.

[B]

Yeah. She was like, you were a mistake. Your father and I just went too far one night.

[A]

Yeah. Drink.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You.

[B]

You're. They're awful, too.

[A]

Yeah. So that was kind of strange. And that's why, you know, that part was a little bit confusing. They. I. So I don't know if we're supposed to just sort of go with, okay, she's. She's just so messed up that she kind of. Her parents basically saw this other child as a second chance to have another child. Because this woman.

[B]

Right. Because.

[A]

I mean, they take.

[B]

Because they clearly take Claire in as one of their own and kind of put Amber on the back burner. So much so that when they died, Claire got everything.

[A]

I mean, could you imagine. That's not right. I mean, I understand playing favorites and maybe. But you give her the whole house and then enough to your. To your actual daughter who you've told that you didn't even like, it was a mistake. I mean, this is a little brutal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No wonder both these women were so messed up.

[B]

No kidding. It was. You kind of go back and forth. You're like, who's more messed up and who's the worst person? And then it is at the end, there's like, oh, they're all they're all. They're both terrible, right?

[A]

Yeah, they were. But so, okay, so with the ends, you know, we, we, we hear. We see Amber leave her house. Well, first of all, do you think that Claire did. Was your takeaway that Claire wrecked the car on purpose that night, that she put Amber in a coma?

[B]

Yeah, that was my takeaway.

[A]

It was. I'm back and forth on that now. I'm back and forth on it because she does always see this girl in the pink dress, Amber. Right. In her dreams. Right. And.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So she's clearly. And so, and then, and then when, when Claire says she saw someone in a pink dress in the road and told her to stop, it's like, well, she doesn't know what she's been hallucinating in her, in her coma. So she clearly.

[B]

Her driving the stick shift and going like, going the first gear, second gear, third and keep on going like fourth gear, going faster and faster when she's like, slow down.

[A]

Right. And she does.

[B]

That's what, that's what led me to believe that she was like purposely crashing it because she was all upset about the journals and that, that Paul saw them.

[A]

Right. And that she said I. And she does say something like, I love you right before the crash is what she remembers. So I think probably it's just so, so after that and then after she goes over and, and she sets her, you know, she poisons cla. Cla. And her husband has the twins over at her house, sets their house on fire and takes the twins and, and, and, and, and basically says I. I finally have the life I deserve. Like the life that was taken from me. She thinks Claire is. She says it a few times. Cla always takes everyone I love from me. It's about her parents. I think at some point she thought she was going to take Paul and, and, and, and she had, and she was able to have kids and Amber wasn't. So she's like, this is the life that I always wanted. Now there's a couple things though, at the end. So. Yes, first of all, they're on this vacation and Paul is. He, he's still acting weird, right? Yeah, he's gotten, he's, he's acting bizarre. We know that he for sure has like a doggy camera on at home. Okay. Because there's a reference to that, so bear with me. He's. He's acting weird. He acts, he acts weird about when he's on the phone and then she catches him and he's like, well, it's supposed to be A surprise. I. I called up room service and so. Okay, so we think. Sure. He just. He got. He ordered some champagne because that's what comes. And then while she is. Well, he gets in the shower. She sees that the TV is on. The murder trial for Madeleine starting because she set her up to. So he's watching this murder trial, he is acting weird. And then there's the bracelet that appears at the end. And yes, we're. I think my first takeaway was that Claire made. Made it out of the house somehow. We never really hear anything about the bodies, although I assume. Okay, Yeah, I mean, I guess because she. Remember she was kind of. She was like. She was still awake when.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When Amber set the house on fire. So are we to believe that something.

[B]

Three times.

[A]

Right. Yep. And are we to believe that she got out and is now, like, stalking her somehow and letting her know she's alive? Because she was the last one with the bracelet. There was a moment that she came in the hospital and she said, I hoped you could remember who we used to be. Here's my bracelet. And she said, you know, and then her. Amber turns her back to her and says. And she says, my sister's gone and so is the bracelet. So she was the last one with the bracelet. I don't know. And then there's also the confusion of which one of them killed Edward in his tanning bed. But then they never found a body. So then people are like, oh, could be Edward is still alive and he knew about the bracelet, so he's stalking her again. Okay.

[B]

Or could it be Paul? Could be Paul. And he's trying to keep her in line and has the pat now he's like, trying to put a power move like you're. I'm gonna make sure you're always scared and always, like, I can always, like, control you.

[A]

Yes. Did Paul actually read the diaries? Because come on, who wouldn't?

[B]

Oh, right, right, right. Yeah.

[A]

You have access to all these diaries and someone acts like a psycho about them, then I mean. Okay, and we know that the last entrance, one of the last entries of the diary. Clara says, taylor told me to do it. So you start to wonder.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay. Did. Is this. Was Taylor actually the mastermind behind burning the. The parents house down because she wanted Claire to be happy again or and live with them or something? Although it did always seem like Claire was the one that wanted to be with Taylor more than the opposite. But.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I. I feel like there when I didn't even think so you had already thought that it might have been Paul.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't.

[A]

Where did he get the brace?

[B]

A great. I didn't come up with a great theory on any of that, but he was. They. The two were. Was he in the house when they were being poisoned in the bed.

[A]

Like, when he. The food that she made them that poisoned them? I'm not. I can't remember, but maybe.

[B]

I don't think they really said. But he could have been there.

[A]

Yeah, I think so. Here's what's.

[B]

I think Claire is so crazy that I don't think she'd play games. She'd just, like, come back and kill her, right?

[A]

Or she just knock on the door and be like, you have my kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think she'd play around. I think she would, like, go right for the throat.

[A]

Right. Okay, so here's one theory. I cop. I copied a couple of theories that I read on Goodreads because I thought I wanted to read them to you. So after it says, Amber paints Claire to be the bad guy, but she's orchestrating everything. She did kill Claire and David. Paul did read the diaries and believes Amber made clear or kill her parents. At the end, he states, it's their anniversary. That's another thing, right? He says, it's our anniversary. And it's. She's like, it's not our wedding anniversary. But we both smile, knowing what anniversary it is. Which is.

[B]

Oh, right.

[A]

What? Yeah. And we never find out. So this one says at the end, he states, it's their anniversary, not wedding. And she smiles because she knows what he means. This is the anniversary of them becoming parents. He gave her the bracelet to let her know that he knows Edward is dead. The police find blood and burns and in his flat. It's not clear who did it, just that neither Claire nor Amber have an alibi. Amber and Claire are mentally ill. Claire did try to kill Amber to possibly free herself from her sister. So that's kind of a theory that Paul read everything and was kind of privy to it all.

[B]

I mean, there's. Now that you. The more we talk about, the more loose ends there really are.

[A]

Now I know there are, and it's. And I think I. I think on purpose. I think it's a. Choose your own adventure in some ways, right? I think it's a little bit of that, which I don't mind. But I also want. I. I want Alice Feeney to sit down and tell me exactly what she believes happened and what. Like what her intention was, who did what. Because then you talk About Paul. Like. Like I said, there was points of acting weird when he meets her on the beach at the end. Obsessively watching the news of the fire. Had time to read the diaries, had cameras put up around the house. So he knows Amber left that house that night, probably when the fire was set. Right. Okay. And why else do they bring up the doggy camera at all? Why. Why do we even have a dog? We got a dog out of nowhere so that she could talk about camera.

[B]

Originally started talking thought originally they started talking about the cameras just because then that she had. He had a reason to put it in her hospital room.

[A]

Right. I. Yes, but I'm just saying. Right, that's true. Because. But he first brought them up because he was going to get them so she could feel safe because she thought someone was in the yard.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Probably it was. Right. Yeah.

[B]

Right. Because he. Because he said, I'm going to have to go to America for a while and if you have to stay here, I'm going to have to get those new cameras that have. They're wireless and they are movement activated. So you feel safe.

[A]

Right. I got another person's thing that just was like, oh, yeah, the bracelet happened while the firefighters probably saved it after the fire assumed it was Claire's because of the same birthday. They called Paul and Amber's house and Paul answered. So he decided to price surprise Amber with a gift to remember her sister. I like it. It's a. Like, I like. It's a long, very.

[B]

It's a very. It's a very lame response. It's very lame.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Very lame and not very. In the spirit of this book.

[A]

No. Yeah. All of a sudden we have a firefighter who's like, oh, I got to call the house and let people know what was. What was here. But there's also, you know, so. Because in the beginning she says she's in a coma. Her husband doesn't love her anymore. Sometimes I lie. And then she. They end it the same way with I was in a coma. My sister died in a tragic accident. Sometimes I lie sometimes a lot. So her. So is the. The lie is that her sister didn't die in a tragic accident. If you're to believe that it goes with the. The way the first one was written, which was. The second one was the lie. Right. Two truths and a lie, if you will. So is. Is she saying, I. It's just. I don't know. I don't know. And then all these. And then I was reading things that had. People were Like I think she's both of them and, and some of the. But I don't see how that could happen because he could. Because there are twins and they do go over to their house for Christmas and he does. Right. So I think.

[B]

And there's two, there's two husbands and she already has them. She already has an imaginary friend that they've talked about. So I doubt if they have like another, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They have two husbands and the husbands know about each other. So I don't if it's one person.

[A]

Right. And. Yeah, exactly. So I, I was just, I think a lot of people were trying to figure out when I was doing some deep dives on my Goodreads, just some people were like, is it possible? But then, yeah, the most of the thing most people were saying, there's just. That would be too, there's too much elaboration on the other woman's life. Um, so, so that I, I think they both exist and I think. I just don't know what. I think Paul is somehow more shady and.

[B]

Yeah, I mean he, he, he knows exactly what's going on because all of a sudden now he has twins.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like I, I mean they, they could, but he has to know more than. He's not just, you know, innocent guy.

[A]

Right. But I think, I don't know, it's just very, it's interesting because it's very open ended. And the more I think about it, the more I don't know what happened.

[B]

I mean, 31 minutes ago I didn't think it was that open ended and now I think it's really open ended. The more. Because we literally. We didn't talk about this until now, even though we both read it a month and a half ago and now it's. I really bring up more questions than answers all of a sudden.

[A]

Yeah. And I think because when, because when he wants to read the diaries in the first place, when he says, don't you think it'd be a bit of fun, whatever. Which is super weird already. I feel like, I mean, you can.

[B]

Pay me enough to read a fricking 13 or 11 year old girl's diary. That's the creepiest thing I've ever heard. Like, I mean, pay me enough. You'd have to freaking pulled my eyes open like Clockwork Orange style to freaking do it. Like.

[A]

If I found anyone, I wouldn't.

[B]

Be interested in reading anyone's diary, to be honest. But go ahead.

[A]

No. And if you read mine from when I was really young, I used to because I Used to think that I had to keep a diary. And so I, I basically would just. Right. And this was even when I was younger. So probably by the time I was 13, I had some sort of heartaches and, you know, or pretend heartaches and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ricky Walden didn't pay enough attention to me at school that day or whatever. But eventually we dated. But, you know, not at first. So I. When I was really young, I had a diary and I would just write things just because I thought I had to put something every day. Today I played. Today I played. Today I played again. Oh, yesterday I played. So if. I feel like you probably would really not want to read my 13 year old girl diaries, but I, or really even younger. But yeah, if you, if you found out I had, If I found a diary and I said, do you want to read this from when I was 14, you would not want to, right?

[B]

No. Please. No. I wouldn't know. It would be awful. Unless, I mean, there's probably funny parts in it.

[A]

Yeah, I guess. So you'd say, you just say, read me. You know, if you find something funny, read it to me. But I'm gonna leave that up to you. So the fact that he's all. It says, like, don't you think it'd be a bit of fun if I find the, if we, if I, if we read these diaries together? No. And then, but then he says, well, they're not mine, they're Claire's. That's when we find out they're Claire's.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so I, I wonder. Because they weren't destroyed after that. And that's when I wonder, did he decide? Because he does say something like two peas in a pod, right? He says that, yeah, that's what tips her off.

[B]

That's what tips Claire off.

[A]

So I wonder, are we to believe that he did read more of them, figured out Claire was a little bit of a nut job, and then thinks that she burned her house down, but then also reads the end, finds out that Amber was actually the one that suggested she burns the house down. And because I don't think Claire's gonna write that for no reason, I don't think she's gonna say. And then, and then, and you. And you see, when Amber sees it, it says, Taylor told me to do it. She, she, she's like, that's it. And she throws it in the fire and burns it. She doesn't dispute it. She doesn't. She basically is like, I'm getting rid of this shit. But Paul maybe already read It. And however he got the bracelet and he decides to. I don't. Or he says they will bring a room service. It's supposed to be a surprise. Does he somehow have the bracelet and think she's gonna think it's awesome that he has it?

[B]

Possibly.

[A]

Is it that simple? I don't think so.

[B]

No. It can't be that simple. But that's what. That's what I kind of thought.

[A]

But is that what you thought?

[B]

Kinda. No, no, I don't. I don't know. I. I was really just kind of wanted to talk about it and it's not making me any happier.

[A]

I'm so curious what everyone else thinks. So. Yeah, like I said in the book list spinners, we can have a discussion. You can obviously leave those comments on Instagram too. But I. Yeah, I would give anything to. To be able to talk to Alice Fe. And, and. And, you know, maybe we'll get to sometime. I don't know. I doubt that she's going to come clean and tell us what her intention was. No, but I think there's more with.

[B]

More about. With Paul with the diaries though. Something about that. That I think he read them now. I didn't think at the time and now I think he read them.

[A]

Yeah. And he, you know, he. He goes off, leaves his phone behind when he goes to see his mom. It. It doesn't make a ton of sense. And. But then he did leave her a message and he did leave her a note, even though at first she thinks the note he just now left it there. But then she realizes he did leave her a voicemail after all. So that was there. So I think those. I assume those things were just things that were. That Alice was doing to Alice Feeney was doing to have. We're on a first name basis now that she was doing to throw us off to make us think that Paul was doing something shady when all along he was just. Because then of course the next time he says there's another text from his mom and there isn't one, but really it's because he wants to surprise her with the news about the book. And then when he tells her this news about the book and she says we have to keep it secret for now, he's never like, why?

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, also why.

[B]

Why is he keeping all this secret from her in the first place? Like, I understand sometimes we have. You think something good is gonna happen and you don't want to tell like a friend or something. You don't want to jinx it or whatever, but You. You got to tell your wife that I'm working on this book, and I have a lot of good momentum going.

[A]

Don't you? Yeah, I. I would. I would think so. But he's. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it adds to Paul's shady behavior.

[A]

Yeah. And. And for him to all of a sudden go, I'm so in love with you. And those underwear for you. And I realized they got you the wrong size. And you can go look. And then the right size is there now. And. And so, again, I think part of this is for us to believe, because I. If you're. If you're to believe. The second lie in the beginning was that when she said, my husband's not in love with anymore. It's like that he is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And is. He is. Does he end up kind of becoming her. Her teammate in all of this in a weird way at the end, But I don't know why he's in love with her. She seems, like, a lot.

[B]

Yeah, she does. Do you want to know what I think what a real, like, straw that broke the camel's back with Amber is? Amber goes over to Claire's house originally. Claire goes over to Amber's house when she's a kid, and she goes, they have, like, such a perfect life. There's even a spot in their kitchen where they measure. Where they measure Amber every year and.

[A]

Mark it on the wall, Right?

[B]

And then Amber goes over to Claire's house at the end, the house that she used to live in, and she goes, oh, I still remember over there where they used to keep my height on the wall, but Claire painted over it. Oh, there's a real. You know, little things like that are just shots to the gut.

[A]

Yeah, that's. You're right. So that's a good point, because she does say this at the end. She's like, this is my life. The life that was stolen from me. This is the life I've always deserved. So at the end of the day, the fact that if she. When she was setting up Madeline all along, right. She was helping. Helping Claire take down Madeline and then also in turn, setting up Madeline to kill Claire, it's almost like when Claire came to her and said that Madeline Frost bitch is the one that. Right. And they figured it out or whatever, and they decided to ruin her life, she was like, okay, I'm gonna get rid of both of you, and I'm going to. Because she was, like I said, she was framing her for her. For Claire's murder all along.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you know why she's doing the. Wiping off the steering wheel and putting the cans in her garage and all that stuff. So she was doing this all along. This didn't all. She didn't. It's not like she went back to work for Madeline after a coma and then. And did all this. This was all before. So, yeah, I think. I think this. The way her parents embraced Claire. For whatever reason, Amber must have just been a real troubled child. And we know that the father and her weren't talking anymore when she died and that she saved his message. And we don't really know why, but we know that they basically just embraced Claire. Or at least that's the way Claire sees it. Because it is a lot in the. In the book, you see. I mean, in the diaries, when. When she's talking about Taylor and she's saying things like, you know, Taylor didn't seem as excited to see me, or Taylor didn't this and that. You could kind of tell that Taylor was like, she was her friend. And then. But then she was becoming indebted to her because Cliff, Claire would come over and help her when the kids were picking on her at school. But she was always. It was definitely. Claire was the one that was. Was really pushing that friendship at the beginning. And then you're. I think the takeaway would be that Amber wasn't so excited when she ended up coming to live with her permanently. And then, like you said, she basically took over her life and erased it. And then she had the kids and. And Amber really wanted kids. I mean, I don't even know if David really did, but she says he did.

[B]

I mean, Amber says near the end, she goes, when Claire chooses to love you, it's forever. And she wasn't saying it like a positive thing, you know, like, no, like, you're. And I kind of. I kind of know some people like that. Scary.

[A]

You do? Like who?

[B]

I don't know. Do you remember, like, crazy people in high school and stuff that were just like, I love you. I'll find you. If you ever leave. I know where you live. I saw you sleep last night. It was fun.

[A]

I will find you.

[B]

I will find you.

[A]

Yeah, I think. And so what was your take on the Edward of it all being in there?

[B]

Super creepy. You know, like, we kind of find out when he shows up, like, outside her Christmas party, and he's like. They had gone out the night before, and he's like, unshaven, unkept. And he was like, oh, I wasn't accidentally in this area. I just. I found you Basically. And just the whole thing with Edward is creepy.

[A]

Yeah. And I'm wondering if. Aside from just the psychological trauma of her being in this coma and him keeping her in it, although. Right. Without him, you could have just kept her in a coma too. Right. She could have just been in karma, but without all the psychological trauma that comes with, like, this guy. It's so creepy. And this guy is in there and the awful thing that he does to her and all of that stuff. Well, w. Without all of that, I think is. Yeah. Is he. Is he just another representation of something that Claire did that almost ruined her life? Because he. Because she wrote those letters and said they were from Amber.

[B]

Right. That's a good point. Because I, I. When I listened to it and read it, I'm like, I don't really see the point of his character.

[A]

Right. That's. That's kind of. That's my question is, is. Yeah, I think we could have had the whole story without him. But is that another way of saying, like, I was protecting you? He was a weirdo.

[B]

I guess so.

[A]

Whatever. I almost got him to lose his job. And then she's like, jesus Christ. This is another thing. This did that almost.

[B]

It's a. It's a major one, too. I mean, it. Basically, I don't want to say got her raped because there's no. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Get yourself raped.

[A]

No one's. Yeah, yeah, I know.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it's like, that's a major thing that cla. Cla's fault.

[A]

Right. A major. He's seeking revenge on her because something cla did. And so. But like I said, she was planning to kill Claire. If we're to assume that she's setting up Madeline this whole time. She was already planning to kill Claire before all of this happened. And that's the part that I didn't really put together until we started talking about it.

[B]

Still don't think I'm putting it all together now. I thought I had it all together now.

[A]

I don't know, but she must have been, because she was asking about the CCTV and getting the extra cans and putting them on Madeline's card and all this stuff. So this was all. This was all thought out before she went into the coma. Right, Right.

[B]

Yeah. But I thought that was just because she was just going to murder Madeline.

[A]

Okay. Possibly. Oh, see, I see. Okay. Okay. And then she was like, oh, I got all this. This is what I can do with it. Instead, I can set her up for Claire's murder.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

When she came out, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like when she came out of the coma, she's like, oh, now like now Claire's gotta die too.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like Claire just tried to kill her basically. That's why. I think it was on purpose why they got in the accident on purpose. Like Claire's basically trying to kill her.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now she's like, now Claire has.

[A]

To die and I've already gotta die and I've already bought all this petrol with. Petrol with her credit card. Yeah. I don't know. I just feel like it must have been. She must have been planning it all along because she's wiping down the steering wheel. She's doing this, she's doing that. She's got the letters like I don't know. So.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? This was all happening while she was working for Madeline or like when. Right, right when she drove Madeline home. So that's the part that's a little. Everyone weigh in now. All this being said of how much I am confused by some things. The more we talk about it. I loved it. Like I really love a book that makes me think and that I don't quite. And then there could be different theories about what happens. I. There's a. Of course as. As I'm. I'm a girl who likes to. We'll look up the ending of, you know, Bachelor instead of watching it. Whatever. I would love to know for sure what happened. So I want everyone to tell me.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna. I might get in on this Facebook group for a bit.

[A]

I know you never go on Facebook.

[B]

No, I. I've been on it a few times.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

I'm not welcome. Yeah. I'm gonna go on more now.

[A]

Of course you're welcome. They love you in there. What are you talking about? They usually just say something and they say, tell John. Cuz they assume that you're not in there because you're not.

[B]

Listen, I. I've been on Facebook in five years.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And then once a week I download Instagram to, you know, put up our stuff and. And then if I ever again. Well yeah, because if whenever I catch myself as like like scrolling for no reason and then I delete it because I'm like, I hate that. So it's such a waste of time.

[A]

Yeah. Anyways, I'm going to Google something right now. Was Amber okay?

[B]

What's it going to be?

[A]

Setting up Claire. But I mean Meline, if she was.

[B]

Just trying to kill Meline, wouldn't she already be wiping down everything in her car? Right, because she goes, she went back to pay, pay for the gas with her credit cards, kind of saying, and now the CCTV is gone, there's no proof that I was ever there. And the gas was paid for with her credit card. So wiping down everything in the car is taking away the proof that she was ever in the car.

[A]

Right. Well, the first thing it said, it says Amber planned to kill Claire. Months as the culmination of a long standing scheme rooted in her twisted relationship, Amber began meticulously setting up Madeline well in advance of the murders. Before the Christmas party where the final Blackwell note was delivered, Amber had planted fuel cans in Madeline's car. By eliminating Claire and pitting the crime on Madeline, Amber was free to adopt Claire's twins and have the idyllic family she always wanted with her husband Paul. So, okay, well that's, I mean that's just an AI summary. So I'm sure that there's. Everyone's going to have their own.

[B]

I will, I will say I read it once and listened to it once and now that we're talking about it, I feel like I missed some pretty major things. I think there's some pretty, some pretty major connect. Not, not things, but just things that I should have put in my head that I didn't. And now I feel kind of stupid.

[A]

Right. Well, don't feel stupid. Don't feel stupid. There's just a lot. And there's like, and there's a lot of things because we were talking about like the Easter eggs that she planted in the book, that, that it was that. That Joe wasn't real. By the way, did I don't think Paul ever said, hey, I looked up your friend Joe in your phone and she wasn't there. So. And they say nobody named Joe works there. Like, I feel like Paul should have maybe asked her about that.

[B]

But I mean, if you have, if you have an imaginary friend when you're a kid, it's, it's fine. If you have imaginary friend when you're like in your mid-30s, you're having like a mental breakdown.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like it's some kind of schizophrenic type thing that you need to get that looked into.

[A]

Yeah. You need. Yeah. Yes. But I think, yeah, there was all these little Easter eggs, but anything, I mean, because there was things like the color red, like, I love red wine, I take red pens, the red studio lights.

[B]

Like, yeah, I read they mentioned, they mentioned the color red like 42 times or something.

[A]

Yeah. So that's one of the things. Right. So there was something with a lot.

[B]

This was like the.

[A]

In there.

[B]

This is like the deepest book we've ever covered.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In terms of it being a lot more things than just on the surface.

[A]

Yes. And I know that hospital scene was tough for some people, and I apologize. They didn't know it was in there. But I didn't know it was in there. And I. Well, I'll. I'm gonna. I mean, listen, I'm still picking a psychological thriller for October. It's not changing. This is my favorite kind of thing. I mean, I read this book so fast. That's why I had to go back and listen to it, because I was just like blowing through it. Because I was just like. This is. I needed to know what was going to happen. And I still don't know what happened. But at least I. At least I read. But I was like. I was. I thought. I mean, it was. You talk about a page turner. I gave a page turner. Okay.

[B]

No kidding.

[A]

Do you have any other thoughts, John?

[B]

Oh, no, just a lot of questions. Now.

[A]

Is this. I hope this isn't the most unsatisfying book review anyone's ever done or. Well, but hopefully it makes people think and also tell us their thoughts. And also know that if you aren't quite sure what happened at the end, you're not alone, but you're free to make up your own, choose your own adventure.

[B]

Like, I think there's going to be a lot of theories.

[A]

Yes. And I'm. I'm excited to read them. And I think that's why I'm glad we have the Facebook group and Instagram and you guys can comment everywhere. And then if you're on Patreon, you can leave your comments in there too. So all kinds of ways for us to discuss this, but is that it?

[B]

I think that's it.

[A]

How many beers do you give it?

[B]

Like 11 out of 12.

[A]

Yeah, I'm giving it five out of five. Cocktails.

[B]

Yeah, it's as good as it gets.

[A]

Yeah, I loved it. And just because I'm confused doesn't have anything to do with not loving it.

[B]

Yeah, I'm confused, too. More confused than I was at the start of this episode.

[A]

But in a good way. We had a conversation.

[B]

And now we need. We need help from our listeners.

[A]

Our listeners. We love you guys. Please do give us. Drop us a rating or. And a review. A little five star review and a little note that says you love us helps us, raises our little profile over there and Spotify, Apple or wherever you are allowed to review on your podcasts. And we're we'll be back with the first week of the Wedding People next Monday, which is John September Read. And don't forget that if you're new here, we don't review until the fourth week. You can still listen. Every week we pull topics from the book, but nothing that's a spoiler and we just have fun conversations. So listen to every week, please. Bye.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

The book list, the book lisp. The book list, the book lisp. The book lisp.