← The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
“Summer Island” by Kristin Hannah - Full Discussion
00:48:27
It's Week 4 of your January Book Lisp, which means it’s time for Jon & Sarah to discuss this month's read, “Summer Island” by Kristin Hannah. Jon & Sarah share all their thoughts on “Summer Island.” Ruby was frustrating, Dean really hit the gas on marriage, and Nora had lots of layers. Plus, do people who give advice always have to be perfect? What did we learn from Eric? And much more. Enjoy!
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.
- [00:02]
B
And I'm John Ryan.
- [00:03]
A
And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.
- [00:08]
B
The Book Lisp.
- [00:09]
A
Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hi, John. Happy afternoon.
- [00:21]
B
Hello. Happy afternoon, baby.
- [00:24]
A
How's it going in the living room?
- [00:26]
B
Good.
- [00:27]
A
Yeah, Yeah, I saw it. So I came home from getting my nails done and saw John was eating a sandwich. And when he eats a sandwich, he's got a lot of friends, a lot of cats. They were hoping for Ralphie.
- [00:40]
B
Once again, Ralphie was in the closet on the second floor in the corner of our bedroom. And I very quietly opened the door where all the meat is. And as soon as he hears that door open, he could wake up. He comes back from the dead. So someday when we have to put him down, we just open that drawer and he'll just shoot back to life. I swear to God.
- [01:01]
A
I. It is funny. He. I mean, that's a place he shouldn't be able to hear. I. It's the. It's not just. Yeah, it's not just the refrigerator. It's the specific drawer. He knows that that's where the meat is. And then same in the pantry. He doesn't show up at the pantry every time I go in the way Ruby sue does. But if he hears what's doing in there, if he hears me grab a snack thing that he knows is his, if he hears a rattle, I try to do it so quiet earlier to give just Cindy one and his fat ass came hopping down the stairs. Anyway, he's food motivated. Cat. Guys, welcome. Welcome to week four of your book list where we get to finally get into full discussion of Summer island by Kristen Hannah. I loved it and we have lots to talk about with it. Your February book list is my pick. It is. Look Closer by David Ellis. I have already read it. I am rereading it with you guys for those of you that are reading it now. And John, because we read it at night in bed together, but he's ahead of me. We don't talk about it until week four, but other than to say if we're enjoying it or not. But I had read it before, but I'm rereading it because it's so twisty turny. There was no way I could give like a good.
- [02:19]
B
A lot of characters too.
- [02:21]
A
A lot of characters. Yeah. And it's goes. Chapters go from character to character, which I always like that. But anyway, that's what we're reading for February. Our Patreon short story. I haven't announced yet, but I'll post it on Patreon and then I'll post it in the Booklist Spinners Facebook group. We do that on the 15th of every month, so you still have a lot of time. By the Monday that you guys hear this, you I might have already posted it, but you'll hear it soon. We do the short stories. They're so fun. We've discovered really fun authors that we hadn't read before this way, and it seems like people are really enjoying this, so that makes me happy. And then we also do random podcasts on the 15th or the 5th and the 25th, so that's all on Patreon. It's only $5 a month. Just a little something extra dose of John and myself, if that's what you're looking for, or if you're looking to read some short stories and discover new authors. It's very fun and we do video podcasts there. I should also quickly just mention that I'll be performing a lot in February and I'd love to see you guys out on the Road. February 6th in Jefferson, Iowa, with Mary Radzinski will be with me February 12th through the 14th in Springfield, Missouri. Springfield Comedy Club, February 20th at the Chicago City Wineries, the 21st at St. Louis City Winery, and then the 27th and 28th in Emmitsburg and then Clinton, Iowa. The Iowa dates are all at the Wild Rose casino and resorts. March 26th through 28th at the Skyline Comedy Club, where Mary will be with me, too, for that. She'll also be with me for the Springfield dates I mentioned earlier. And then April 10th and 11th at Arlington Drafthouse. Mary will be with me for those too. So, you know, you got a great headliner and a fantastic feature and you should come to all of those shows. You should just travel the world, travel the US with me in February. It's I hear it's a great time to travel.
- [04:12]
B
Yeah. Hopefully this weekend, apparently.
- [04:16]
A
Yeah. So we are, of course a lot of you are Seahawks fans that listen are just football fans. So don't be disappointed that we're not mentioning anything about the game yesterday on Sunday the 25th because this episode is being recorded on Friday the 23rd because John is leaving for Seattle tomorrow and then I'm leaving for Seattle a little bit later after him and we are going to be at the game, but we can't say anything about it because it hasn't happened yet by the time you hear this, it will have happened. So just so you know, don't be confused.
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B
You guys know whether or not the Seahawks go in the super bowl, and Sarah and I do not know.
- [04:56]
A
No, that's not how that works.
- [04:58]
B
Yeah, it is. Right now they all know whether or not the Seahawks go in super bowl because they're listening to this on Monday.
- [05:02]
A
They're listening to it on Monday. But we.
- [05:04]
B
So they already know.
- [05:05]
A
Right, but we would have already.
- [05:08]
B
No, we don't know when we're recording. When they listen to this. When it released on Monday, they're gonna know. And we're not. We don't know because we're.
- [05:16]
A
We.
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B
We can't see into the future, but.
- [05:18]
A
By the time when they hear it, we will know by then. Yeah, but just not when we're recording the podcast. Boy, did that one throw me for a loop. That was more twisty turny than any of my psychological thrillers have ever been.
- [05:30]
B
Oh, boy.
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A
All right, let's talk Summer island by Kristen Hannah.
- [05:35]
B
Jump on in.
- [05:38]
A
Listen, I liked it. I liked the story. I liked that it was. I like that there were a lot of layers to what happened in their family that Nora. And so for those of you that didn't read it, because we do have a few people that jump in. It's a story about a woman who is a very popular radio host and she gets busted. Or basically her past comes back to haunt her. She had had an affair, but she's this big, like, marriage advice giver and all this stuff.
- [06:10]
B
Yeah, she's not just a radio host. She's like a. She's like. What. What are those call in shows? They used to have the one really famous. I guess Dr. Drew was kind of famous for a while for. You call in.
- [06:20]
A
Yeah, like Dear Abby. Dear Abby. That's a really old reference. But just. Yeah. So she would give advice on family and marriage, and then the guy that she had an affair with decides to blackmail, but she doesn't bite. So the story gets printed and everyone turns on her and she has to go hide out. And she has an estranged daughter. And this is a good recap just for anyone, everyone that even read it. She has an estranged daughter. She has two daughters, but they're both kind of estranged. But she still speaks to the one Caroline. And then Ruby, she doesn't talk to. And Ruby's trying to be a standup comedian in Los Angeles. Hey, girl. And. And then there's a guy named Eric and a guy named Dean, and. And they're brothers. And they grew up with Ruby and Caroline. And Eric is now dying of cancer. And Dean is a successful businessman who feels empty inside because he's always loved Ruby. And there you go. And then Ruby goes to take care of her mom. So I like all the layers that there was about Nora. Right. I think that she initially, I have feelings. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's fiction. So it is what it is. I get that. But I, I, I had some feelings about her being exposed as someone who had cheated on her, her husband in the past. And now all these people are going, she's a fraud. I've called in for marital advice. She told me to save my marriage. She told me to do this, to do that. And then it turns out she also hasn't spoken to her daughter in years. And so they feel like she's a fraud because she gives advice on all of that stuff. And I thought, in a way, who better actually in it, right? In a way isn't, isn't is someone saying, learn from my mistakes and don't do it. I understand the concept. I understand that we want the people that we're putting on this pedestal that are saying family, blah, blah, blah, to have always followed that rule. And I'm not saying that she's, I don't, I just don't think it's like hypocritical in the sense some things are. I guess she was never honest about it. So had she been honest about it, then it wouldn't be, it would just be like, this is who I am. Don't do what I did. That would probably have been a better take for her instead of building it off of this falsehood.
- [08:35]
B
I guess you can give great advice from experience, even though it was a negative experience to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like so, like, I guess I just think she wasn't forthcoming with that and saying, I, obviously I gained a lot of this knowledge and I can give you a lot of advice because of my screw ups in my life where she tried to come out holier than right, being like, listen to me because I am also perfect.
- [09:00]
A
Right. So that, and that's where she made her, her big mistake. Because they, yes, sometimes who better than someone that's made the mistakes? But if you've never admitted to it, then people are kind of blindly taking your advice as if you've fought through all this hard stuff and come out on the other end with this beautiful marriage. Although the only thing that was a little confusing is I thought nobody is. They all know she's not married. Right.
- [09:23]
B
Right.
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A
I mean, she's a celebrity. She's famous. So nobody's like, oh, how do you give all this marriage advice but you don't have a husband. I never really.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Did that ever get addressed?
- [09:35]
B
No. But also, I think even, like 25 years ago when this was written, I think even then it was a different time where you can't. Couldn't just automatically go on Google and find everything about everybody right off the top.
- [09:46]
A
Right. Or. Or. Yeah, I guess so. I just think she would have. I guess you would expect someone to talk about their marriage if they were doing that, but that's a little bit of a hole. Maybe. But later she does. Like, it doesn't matter. There's not. You know, you guys have all read it, so I'd like to jump around. But one thing I thought later in the book, when her daughter, Caroline. So this is way after she's already, you know, everyone. Everyone knows now that her. The reason that she actually cheated on. Not everyone, but her daughters know the reason she actually cheated on her husband was because he was cheating on her constantly and humiliating her. And she ended up being on.
- [10:28]
B
Right on island, like. Like screwing her kids. Like soccer.
- [10:31]
A
Soccer coach. Yeah. Yeah. And he admits it. He tells Ruby. The father tells Ruby that that's what he did because he wants her to give her mom a chance and understand, like, she didn't leave you guys and walk away and to go have an affair in a career. She left because, like, I. I humiliated her. I didn't love her the way that she loved me. She ended up, you know, taking Valium, being on pills. Like, she had a really hard time. So.
- [10:56]
B
And when. When. When Rand tells Nora. When Rand tells Ruby that. And then Ruby. Yeah, the dad, Ruby goes and tells her mom that she. She kind of understands now more than. Rand comes to the house to see Nora and he goes, I told her the truth. And this is where it was like when you see, like, Nora actually is a good mother at some times and she's becoming a good mother because she's like, you shouldn't have told her that.
- [11:20]
A
I know she's going to be crushed.
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B
Because she thought you were perfect.
- [11:23]
A
Yeah.
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B
I thought that was, like, really like, telling because it was like, she's still, like, looking up for a kid, even though it makes her look not as bad or better than it looked before. It makes him look like the bad guy who was also a bad guy. She. She didn't want him. Didn't want her daughter to think he needed less of her dad.
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A
No, she didn't. She never spoke bad about him. She never told them why she. And she's, by this point in the book, late. You know, this is towards the end when she. Or, well, I mean, closer to the end when Rand comes clean, when her dad. Their dad comes clean, and to Ruby and. And then ends up telling Nora. It's like she. She had our. She had. Had opportunities to even say, like, look, this is what happened. Your dad humiliated me. I didn't. And. And she didn't do it. She never. She was still not going to throw him under the bus or tell the truth. But I think it's good that he told her. I think it's good that he owned up. And I think one thing that was nice about that moment was when. When Rand comes back. So he's remarried, but when he comes and tells Nora what he. What he told Ruby. And then he sits. They sit down by the water. So we're just going to talk about Nora first, right? Um.
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B
Yeah.
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A
They sit down by the water and he tells her he's sorry. And all of a sudden she's like, oh, okay, I'm good now. Like, yeah, you know, it's so. It's so funny how sometimes that's all you need is just an acknowledgement. And she basically goes, God, I've waited all these years. And it's so sad because we had. We could have had this great thing. But now he's married, you know, now you're married again, and I'm happy for you. And honestly, like, thank you. Like, that was all I needed. I just needed a fucking.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I'm sorry.
- [13:00]
B
And they kind of didn't have to be like this. Like, she says, I was. I was so lonely. Or he was. I was lonely. And she was. I was, too. You should have called me. Like, we could have patched things up. And then there's a moment there where you think they're going to, like, kiss.
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A
I know. Yeah. I was wondering. I was like, ooh, I don't know if that's what I want out of this. But it didn't. Yeah. But did you.
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B
I was like, I could get to get back. Get back together story in books and movies.
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A
Well, they gave you that with Dean and Ruby.
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B
Yes.
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A
Because when. So when Ruby. Basically, Ruby's out trying to be in Hollywood, she's not talking to her mom, this whole story breaks. She ends up getting an offer to write an article scathing her mom for being a hypocrite. Blah, blah, blah. She wants to be A writer, she wants her moment in the sun. So she's like, fine, I'll take it. And then when Nora has a car accident because she got. Had a few cocktails in her and didn't. Didn't think straight, of course she. And then had. And that's why she ended up going to the island to recover. So Ruby ends up going to the island to take care of her. This is the house they grew up in and it's called Summer island. Just like the book. Which by the way, was confusing. Did you have any moment? Did you. You know, because they, they talk about how Dean and Eric are on an island and then how she's on an island. And I thought they were on the same islands, but they weren't.
- [14:26]
B
Yeah, no, it's confused. I should have known better about this because I lived in Seattle for over a decade and I don't think I visited the islands one time. But there's like a spattering of islands that kind of ferry just kind of hits one after the other. So it's just like a fairy ride from one to the other. Because at one point she jumps off early and the. The towns be like, what do you do? Or the people on the boat are like, what do you do? And the price think I'm a tourist. Doesn't know there should not be getting off right now when she goes and sees Dean.
- [14:49]
A
Right. But they went to high school together.
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B
Right. I just, I think some of those islands are pretty small. They can't have their own high school.
- [14:57]
A
Got it. And the other thing that was a little bit confusing for me was the grandparents at first because there was a lot of talk about how that Summer Islands, that house was their grandparents. And so the way she talked about her grandparents in the beginning or the way it was written, it sounded like they were still alive. And then when Nora talks about how she left home when she was young and. And didn't see her father again, I.
- [15:27]
B
Think maybe 16 or 17, she said, yeah, right.
- [15:30]
A
Well then I was like, whose grandparents are they? Oh, it was the dad's parents. It was the dad's parents house. And then they left it to the girls and so they don't. So Caroline basically upkeeps the house and spends the summer there, but she has. She lives elsewhere with her husband and kids. And Ruby hadn't been there in years since she left to go to Hollywood. So I got it, but it took me a minute. There was really a seriously a note in my Kindle. When he. When they talk about how his parents left the house, to the girls that I just wrote a note and I went, oh, okay, now I got it. I don't know why I was so confused by Ruby's.
- [16:06]
B
Ruby's character. Ruby is very frustrating.
- [16:09]
A
Yes.
- [16:09]
B
Which is very frustrating. This. Like, she can't. She can't get over the fact that she thinks her mom left her for. To get famous. Like, she chose fame over her family. But then she goes back, like, everything that she's, like, up on in her life, she kind of blames her mom. Like, she was with Dean and go, like, going into, like, their senior year, going into their first year college, whatever was on the island. And she just decides one night she's gonna go some other guy in Seattle and then come back and tell him.
- [16:34]
A
Yeah, I was trying.
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B
I was trying to make it. And she said something like, I was trying to do it to, like, something about you, Mom.
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A
Yeah.
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B
It's like, okay, come on. And then she's like. She can't get right. She, like, has a sitcom that they want to give her, and she, like, won't do the line. She won't follow the script, so they fire her. Just. She's very. She's a little bit frustrated. And then even, like, when they're. When she's taking care of her mom for those seven days, especially early on, it's almost like, cringy at times because everything her mom says, she'd be like, like, turn it around.
- [17:04]
A
Yeah.
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B
Like, oh, I need to. I need to go to the car. Oh, you would know how to go to the car and leave mom.
- [17:09]
A
Yeah.
- [17:11]
B
Every single thing was just like. Like throwing it back in her face that she left. I mean, it's part. I know it has to be like that for the book, but sometimes, like. Okay, we get it.
- [17:21]
A
Yeah. No, I felt the same way. She was frustrating because. Even when so. Because her and Dean. So she cheats on him, tells him this is all when they're 16, 17, whatever. Right. And then he leaves because he's so heartbroken. He goes off to boarding school or some shit. But he gets super. He's super rich because his family had all this money and they left in the business.
- [17:42]
B
And when we opened $100 million business or something.
- [17:45]
A
Yeah. And when we opened the book, he's like, you know, dating some girl and he's out with her, and she's. And he's like, I don't even want to fuck her because I'm just like, my. I feel so empty inside. And so you already see where this is going. He's going to go back to the island to see his brother that's dying of cancer. And he's going to run in. We assume he's going to run into Ruby because we know she's going back there too. And I kept waiting for them to run into each other. I think this is before I realized they were on separate islands. Like when she would go to the grocery store and whatnot. And they did it and they didn't. And then he. He finally, like, it's kind of later in the book than you would expect, but he comes. Or that I would expect that, I guess that he comes to see her. And because his brother tells him. Tells him that she's on the island, he goes to see her, and he's basically like, right out of the gate, haven't seen her in 10 years. It's like, I miss you. I want to get back together.
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B
But the. The locals don't stay on the island. They say on island.
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A
Okay, are you a local?
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B
No. That's what they say in the book. They say on, he's on island. So they. They.
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A
I didn't catch that. I just thought they left a word out.
- [19:01]
B
No.
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A
What are you, the island police?
- [19:04]
B
Yes. It's a hard job. Somebody's got to do it. Girl, I'm the new sheriff in town. This island.
- [19:14]
A
I'm sorry. He. When he goes on island to see.
- [19:17]
B
Thank you. Now I understand the question. So it go was. They talked the whole time about, you know, Eric and Dean and how Dean, they had this, like, fling, or they had this, like, basically a childhood romance 11 years ago is kind of what they say. Or longer than that.
- [19:32]
A
Who?
- [19:34]
B
Dean and Ruby.
- [19:35]
A
Dean and Ruby, Yes. Are you saying they basically have, like a.
- [19:38]
B
Sorry. They have, like, a childhood romance and then, like, they see each other. I'm jumping way ahead. But they don't. You're kind of like, are they gonna, like, see each other? And they go on a date and, like, slowly, like, see each other and they, like, hang out kind of, and, like, they make out and then they're like, have sex on, like, the dock or something. And then she's like, move in with me. And he's like, in Holly? Weird. Like, no, here. He's like, I won't move in with you. I don't want to move in with you. She's like, why? Because I want to marry you. Like, Jesus Christ, you guys just fucked 12 seconds ago, and you guys haven't seen each other for 11 years and.
- [20:13]
A
They hadn't had sex before? That part blew my Mind they. When she goes, oh, we should have done this before. I was like, wait, what? I just assumed they had, but I guess. I guess they were.
- [20:23]
B
No, because she lost her virginity when she went into Seattle when she was with Dean, and they never really talked after that.
- [20:29]
A
Oh, boy.
- [20:31]
B
Dean. Dean must have that magic wand, if you know what I mean.
- [20:36]
A
I think I know what you mean. I think everybody does.
- [20:39]
B
His dick. Oh, she liked. She liked the dick. And then she said, yeah, I'll marry you.
- [20:43]
A
Okay.
- [20:44]
B
12 seconds after. I didn't know if. I didn't know if you were clear on what I was talking about when I said magic wand, but now you get it.
- [20:51]
A
I got it. Oh, I got it. Yeah.
- [20:53]
B
We're good. Yeah. Yeah, you did.
- [20:59]
A
The creepy old man pervert laugh is alive and well on the book.
- [21:03]
B
Yeah.
- [21:03]
A
Everybody.
- [21:04]
B
Yes. Now I lost where we were.
- [21:06]
A
Well, no, you're talking about, like, it was like, three different parts where Dean tries to go after her, as in getting her back. So the first time. Yeah, she just kind of runs away from him. And then the second time, they go on a bike ride. And then after that, they have. They make out or something. But then she runs away from him again and again. She's frustrating. And I'm like, this guy hasn't seen you in a decade. And from the way that they were describing, he walks in, she's wearing, like, pink fuzzy socks. Hasn't got, you know, hasn't taken a shower in weeks or whatever. They're trying. So. What they said. But something. She's like a hot mess at the point when he first comes in to see her, and he's. All he wants to do, be with her. And she's like, I can't. I can't give you what you need. And then when they take. They go out on sailing. Okay, this is that one. This is towards the end, they go and they take Eric sailing. And it's very sad because he has not. They want to. Basically, he's dying of cancer. He wants to go sailing. He's very close to Nora. Nora's been like a mother to him. His mother rejected him because he's gay. So it's Nora, Ruby, and Dean and Eric on the boat, and they have a nice sailing day. And she talks to Eric. And then this is after she's blown Dean off a couple times. And then her mom goes up to the house. But I think she. Like, I was a little confused about this. I thought Nora went and sat on the. On the porch or something. And then.
- [22:29]
B
Yeah, that's what it sounded like because.
- [22:30]
A
Yeah, yeah. And then they just started banging on the boat. And like your mom is right there.
- [22:34]
B
Like Nora ducked in during that part.
- [22:37]
A
Okay.
- [22:37]
B
I'd like to believe, but I just assume.
- [22:40]
A
Okay, thank you. I feel better.
- [22:45]
B
Eric's character was really like the hardest, like, most gut wrenching part of this whole story.
- [22:50]
A
Yeah, I agree.
- [22:51]
B
Like, so Dean, which is like whatever it was, this book was written like 2001. 2000. So he said, like, I haven't talked to my brother since he told me he was gay in like 1990. Like, I guess things have changed for the much better. But 1990 seems like a. Like not that long ago to be like, I'm not talking to my brother anymore because he's gay.
- [23:13]
A
Yeah, it was. That's the. It was kind of a. It was tough because it felt like Kristin Hannah's writing Dean as this great guy who. Yeah, he's feeling a little empty and he inherited all this money, but he was just. He's. He's. He stunted love wise because he never got over Ruby cheating on him as. And. And so he's just sort of fulfilling his love life with women that throw themselves at him because he's loaded and everyone's try. He's the most eligible bachelor with millions and millions. And he does come across as a good guy. But that's like a big strike against him because you go, so it's.
- [23:49]
B
Your brother touched on that a little bit more because I think you're led to assume that because his. That his mom and dad were so against it and just basically like said, you're basically not our son anymore. But here. And then to Dean, here's the $100 million family business that he was almost like, I have to carry on the business and almost agree with them or like I have to choose my brother or this money in my family. Yeah, because his parents drove the wedge.
- [24:15]
A
Yeah, they did. And they don't even come in. His parents don't even come back to see Eric when he's dying. And they know he is, but at least Nora's there for him. So he. There was one point when Dean and Eric are talking, right. So Dean, the reason he's back is because Eric's dying and he's taking care of him. And so they're getting closer and closer. And there's. There's a couple moments where he says things like, let's remember the way we used to be. Which is the same thing Nora's saying to Ruby. So there. Those relationships are kind of Mirroring each other. And while. While Nora's trying to repair her relationship with Ruby. That is. And there's one point when. When Dean basically says that he left because Ruby broke his heart. And. And. And Eric never talked to him about it or something like that, and says. And so Eric goes, oh, you felt abandoned by me too? And he said, yeah, I was. I had a broken heart. I didn't want to hear about your love life. And it's like, well, that's kind of a cop out.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah.
- [25:15]
A
It's not that you didn't want to hear about his love life. It's that you didn't approve of it. And of course, there was his. He was. He was saying, I just felt that the person that I knew wasn't the person that I knew. You were different. You know, you're. I thought you were this jock high school, well, ladies man, and you weren't. And so my whole perception of you is different. Which. Okay. But in the decade goes by, you got to go, hey, maybe everyone. Him and Ruby both needed to grow up a little bit as far as getting over that happened to them when they were younger, because at some point, you got to take a tiny bit of responsibility on your own and go, okay, yeah, what do I want here?
- [25:56]
B
Yeah, it's. They. That Dean is a bit of a frustrating character in that sense as well.
- [26:01]
A
Yeah.
- [26:02]
B
But Eric has, like, a lot of, like, heartbreaking moments, obviously. No. Eric is on his deathbed. He's dying of cancer. Also, he called. He called his brother, and he goes, I'm like, I'm dying. And instantly, Dean goes, aids.
- [26:15]
A
I know.
- [26:16]
B
He's like, no, bro. People can die from a lot of other things besides aids. Like, it's just like, instantly he goes, aids.
- [26:22]
A
I know. Was it because that's what his partner died of? Is that what happened?
- [26:27]
B
Charlie's partner?
- [26:28]
A
Charlie?
- [26:29]
B
Maybe. I don't know. It seems like a really weird reaction when someone says, I'm gonna die, and you just lead with that, like, without asking what's going on.
- [26:36]
A
Yes.
- [26:36]
B
But then when Eric comes or when Dean comes to visit him and he kind of comes in and they're talking about, you know, the 10 years they've lost Eric, the heartbreaking thing. Eric says, our family was never good with bad news.
- [26:50]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [26:51]
B
Which I find really, like, being gay.
- [26:54]
A
Isn'T bad news, is not bad news.
- [26:58]
B
So it's sad that someone still, like, thought that their whole life.
- [27:01]
A
Yeah, he was. He was. You know, I. I liked the fact that. That Kristin Hannah had this character going through that journey because it basically kind of was the, the reflection for everybody else to go, I've wasted all this time. And sometimes you don't have that much time because he was probably, I don't know, early 30s or something. Right. And dying a very slow death from cancer and, and his parents didn't come see him. They've completely wasted their time. Like, you know, beyond the book. You assume somebody like that is going to have some regrets. Later about it, Dean comes back and repairs his relationship with him and gets to do things with him that he has missed out on and catch up with him and takes of care care of him and take some sailing. And so that's like his little redemption for time lost. But it's like you still can't get back that time. But I, but I thought I liked that that storyline was, was in there to sort of give everyone perspective, Ruby perspective even on not talking to her mom and time lost. Ruby perspective on losing touch with Eric. Everyone gets some perspective from that and Nora too, you know, so I thought, I thought it was a good story.
- [28:17]
B
Eric. Eric says at one point, says you don't realize how precious time is until you're almost out of it.
- [28:22]
A
Yeah.
- [28:22]
B
And I think that's kind of like, you know, a slap in the face to everyone to get their shit together.
- [28:27]
A
Yes, yes.
- [28:28]
B
And which I have some people in my life. I'd like to say that too as well.
- [28:31]
A
Same Z's.
- [28:32]
B
Yep. Twinsies.
- [28:34]
A
Yeah, I know. Yeah. Because you see this with, with the family thing and, and so the whole time during this book too is Ruby's thing is she's supposed to be writing this tell all article on her mom and now she's staying with her and living with her and now she's finally figured out, found out from her dad what really happened. And Noro opens up to her too about what it was like for her and now that article's due and it's her big chance and they've already paid her and she signed a contract and her agent's like, you're doing this article? And she says, I can't, I like her. He goes, I don't care, you got to do this article. And she's about to leave the house and this is, you know, after obviously they've are repaired and she tells her mom she loves her and all these things and she's about to leave the house and, and, and, and go up here on this Sarah Purcell show where she's gonna chat after her article comes out. And then she comes back and Tells Nora, this is the article. This is what I was going to do. And Nora actually reads it and encourages her to. To. She said it was beautiful. She's like, it. It started out hating me, and it gave me. It showed me as human.
- [29:45]
B
Yeah.
- [29:46]
A
Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
- [29:47]
B
She, like, gives. She like gives the article to her mom that she wrote and be like, I'm so sorry. And then she goes on the grass and starts like, thinking, like, now I'm gonna be chasing my mom. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be chasing her for. To apologize. Like, it's almost like a roll reversal now. I'm gonna try to get her back. And then Nora came out and she's like, you have to publish this. It's. It's hard, but it's our story. And we'll. We'll go and talk about it and we'll be on the shows together. And it's just, this is our story and we're gonna own it.
- [30:12]
A
Yeah. And she says, I'm gonna go on that Sarah Purcell show with you. And she says, well, they're gonna eat you alive. She's like, I don't care. No, they won't. But I liked that. I thought that was interesting. It's funny because there was one point where she was watching the Sarah Purcell show right before all of this happened. Nora was watching it and she talks about, oh, some woman named Sarah Purcell. And then there's a couple experts on there, and they're trashing Nora because she's still the big storyline, you know, in celebrity tabloids. And I thought that that was when Nora was going to find out that Ruby was coming on the show. I thought they were going to announce it or something and it was going to be. And I was like, oh, I was like clenching my butt cheeks waiting for it. And that's not what happens. But I like the way it. I like the way that. That kind of wrapped up. I figured she wouldn't write the article.
- [30:59]
B
But there's another frustrating thing about Ruby. She has no money. She just lost her job. $50,000 falls in her lap to write an article.
- [31:09]
A
Yeah.
- [31:09]
B
And she goes and buys a Porsche and a three thousand dollar dress. Listen, this girl, girl, get your shit together.
- [31:17]
A
Get your together. You know what else she did? You know what else Ruby did at one point is she littered.
- [31:23]
B
Yeah, she littered.
- [31:25]
A
She sure did. She was getting it. She got a parking ticket.
- [31:28]
B
Oh, right. She takes and throws.
- [31:29]
A
She takes it and throws it out the window.
- [31:32]
B
Yes. There's something like. Like if you have like a Rat nest or something like this. You shouldn't be able to have to pay a ticket.
- [31:39]
A
You don't litter. You put that. You put that parking ticket on the floor of your car like a proper adult and ignore it for 12 months.
- [31:47]
B
Yeah. Oh, another. Another thing written down here is I think that Ruby. You know, like, Ruby slowly starts, like, understand her mom.
- [31:54]
A
Yeah.
- [31:55]
B
The one point when her. Nora's agent or her assistant sent her a bunch of letters that she was supposed to respond to from fans that were. Some are good and some are bad, and then Ruby finds them, start to read through them. And I think that it was a kind of a weird point because she's like, oh, like, my mom really, really cares about these people. She gives some good advice. I see why people love her. But then I think she was also a little bit like, why didn't she do this to me? Do this for me?
- [32:18]
A
Right, Right.
- [32:18]
B
So I thought that was kind of interesting. I was like, okay, it's like a turning point. We're hitting, like, the. The tipping point. And then it kind of felt like you were still, like, in. In, you know, limbo.
- [32:28]
A
Yeah. Yeah. What did you think about. So Caroline, the other sister, her. Her storyline was that she was unhappy in her marriage. We don't really. It was kind of a weird storyline because there's not really an explanation for it. She talks about how she's lonely. She's got the kids. The kids are. Sounded a little bit chaotic. And her husband, I guess, is, like, working a lot, and they're well off, but she's always kind of. Ruby goes to visit her at one point, and she's like. She feels like she's about to break. And then when Caroline ends up coming out to see Nora and Ruby, after Nora and Ruby have kind of reconciled, and this is all before the. The whole thing with it.
- [33:12]
B
So I think. I think the reason her character was in there was to show Nora because Nora's like, I'm a terrible daughter. Like, I hate my mom, but I'm terrible daughter. Everything sucks. My life's in shambles. My sister's life is perfect. She has two perfect kids. She has the quarterback husband. They're rich. They even. They even talk about when she. They have no food in the house in the summer house. She's like, oh, I guarantee you your sister has emergency food here. It's probably even labeled for dinner. Like, she's so perfect. Blah, blah. So I think it was to show Nora to be like, oh. She saw the cracks. Be like, oh, even the people you think are perfect, aren't perfect. Like, she has cracks in her marriage. She's about to, like, lose it with having these kids. She finds out that possibly her husband's cheating and.
- [33:52]
A
But he wasn't, right?
- [33:54]
B
Right. It doesn't seem like it. Then Nora says to her, like, give it. Like, basically give it everything you got. The next day, the husband shows up, they go off together. You think it's going to be okay. So I just think it was to show that, like, even though you thought that you were perfect, like, you're not that far away from what they were.
- [34:10]
A
Okay.
- [34:10]
B
As a. As a sister, you know? You know, I mean, you compare yourself, someone else. Then when you see behind. Behind the screen, you can see that it's not as perfect as you thought it was. And maybe they weren't as far apart, and maybe the relationship wasn't as good as you thought with their mother either. Like, she had problems with. With Nora as well that maybe Ruby didn't know about. She's like, I. I think that was kind of like a measuring stick for Nora.
- [34:31]
A
Okay. I like that. And also, when. When she does come over and she. They get drunk, her and Ruby get drunk. And then. And Nora. And then Nora and Caroline are sort of commiserating about how she's unhappy and this and that. Ruby almost feels like she can't jump in and talk because she's always stayed, you know, kept herself closed off. Like, even when she talks about the guy, Max, that she lived with her for five years, y. She's. That wasn't even in love with him. And she says to Nora, I can't keep a relationship. I don't know why he left. And she said, well, did you love him? And she said, no. She's like, well, then it's not why did he leave? It's why did you stay? So she's getting all this, but she feels like she can't contribute to Caroline and Nora's conversation when they're having this heart to heart about her marriage. And so, yeah, it's. I. I guess you're right. It's another reflection there for Ruby. But I was just a little confused because it seems like I guess it's sort of meant to feel like the husband's kind of a piece of at first, but then he comes immediately to see her, and he says, you shouldn't have left and let's go home. And he's. And then. And that's after Nora basically says to her, don't make the mistake I've made. Don't Throw your marriage away, don't do. But which I was glad she acknowledged a little bit later. I know what I'm saying isn't true for everyone, because before the husband comes back, I'm like, if this guy's cheating on her and leaving her alone and he's a pos, you do have to leave. Because staying together for the kids sometimes gives a really bad. A worse example. Right. If you're. If my parents had stayed together, I can't imagine. I mean, you bet. You know, my mom and my dad, I mean, that's not a couple that.
- [36:14]
B
I could never have imagined those two together in my whole life. And then the person they met after that, people they both ended up with for 25, 30 some years where there's like the perfect person. I couldn't imagine them not being together. So it all worked out for all of them.
- [36:29]
A
Yes. And so I understand, of course, there's exceptions. And I like that she said that too, because at first I was kind of getting annoyed with Nora being like, just, I don't care if you're miserable. Give it all you got. Don't make my mistakes. Have your family's important. It's all you got. But it was. And then I guess when he came and she heard them talking and heard his tone, she said, I know I made the right. You know, I gave her the right advice because he's too. And she even. Caroline even says to her, I love him so much. So I guess we just never really found out what was going on with them. So that was the only confusing part to me. But other than that, I guess like you said, it was more of a. Of a mirror for people.
- [37:05]
B
Yeah. I think all we have really to talk about is like kind of the very end. But I have like three questions or three topics before we get to the very end.
- [37:13]
A
Okay. Okay. Please.
- [37:14]
B
Okay. For one, they say the island is the farthest thing from California. Here, hip hop is what bunnies do. And drive bys are what happens when you start. We drive by a neighbor and stop to talk to them. Do you see that part?
- [37:33]
A
I don't even remember that. But that's so cheesy.
- [37:35]
B
Yes, it's so cheesy. But also it's like there's. Honestly, people. I swear, a big portion of people in. Outside of California think California is Disneyland.
- [37:46]
A
Right.
- [37:46]
B
Or Hollywood.
- [37:47]
A
Right.
- [37:49]
B
Hollywood. The other, another huge group. People just think we walk outside with shields on because we're getting shot at at every corner.
- [37:58]
A
Right.
- [37:58]
B
Okay.
- [37:59]
A
It's.
- [38:00]
B
It's. It's not that. That's what. That's just what I felt when I read that. I'm just like.
- [38:03]
A
It's also like, you just live right next to Seattle, which is a huge city with it, and I love Seattle. But also, it's like, every big city has their whole thing, right? Yeah, I know.
- [38:15]
B
That's like a funny line.
- [38:16]
A
I tell you what, when Dean said to her, like, oh, what, I'm gonna come there in Hollyweird, I was like, that would have made my vagina dry up in Tusaka. Don't be that guy. This is Holly weird. What are you, my dad or my grandpa? I don't know.
- [38:32]
B
Here's another one that. This will make your. Your nether regions dry up real quick. I went. Every once in a while, I go to. I go to AI when we do these, and I just say, do you have any good book topics? Based on the story Summer island by Kristin Hannah? And they give you some topics, and every once in a while, one will hit. One of the first topics that came up was, you're gonna throw out your computer after this. Can a woman have a career and be a good mom? Discuss. I was like, is this. Is this an AI from 1955? Was this the first AI of all time?
- [39:09]
A
Listen, this is why people. I know I can do some good things, but let's not completely rely on it to be reasonable.
- [39:15]
B
I know. That's what I was like, I'm not getting any more topics because I know they just comb the Internet for shit is what they really do. They're just like, you know, grabbing crap from the Internet. But I was like, geez, what year is this? Yeah, okay, the other one, this was. I. I kind of picked up on it while I was reading it, but it's even more during the performance when I read it. When I listened to it again today on tape or on, you know, whatever they call it now.
- [39:39]
A
Audiobook audio.
- [39:41]
B
The two agents. Like, the way Nora's agent talks to her. She's like, wow, little Lassie. Looks like you got yourself into a dilly of a pickle, young lady. What am I hearing about? You're in cahoots with some young man pitching, posting pictures of you naked. My God, little lady, you got yourself into a dilly of a pickle. We need to talk asap. Like, it's just like. I'm like, that's like, what? Like the most stereotypical agent probably was like, 30, 40 years ago.
- [40:08]
A
Yeah.
- [40:09]
B
And then. And then. And then the same thing with Ruby's agent. It just seems like like the stereotypical comedian agent. It rhymes.
- [40:16]
A
Yeah.
- [40:16]
B
That agent that you had. Even though I'd never met him, and he used to tell me about how he used to always wear, like, tracksuits and have, like. Yes. I feel like every. Every agent talked with, like, a Brooklyn accent, like, in the movies or like, a book.
- [40:31]
A
He was. Yeah, Tim Scally always wore tracksuit. Once he was with me when I was getting. My book was being released, and I was in New York, I was doing the Today show and doing a bunch of press, and someone asked him if he was my bodyguard. And I go, this is your. This is your chance to start dressing differently. Someone just asked me for my bodyguard. And then the other story about him that I'll just tell for funsies is that when I sold out Gotham Comedy Club that weekend, it was a big deal for me. And he comes into my green room after, and he goes, it was a good show. And I go, yeah. I mean, I killed it. It was sold out. He goes, yeah, yeah. He goes, my friend didn't like it. And I go, all right, okay. Your friend didn't like it, Tim. Like, I started yelling at. And then he was, like, crying, laughing, because he knew. He was like, I don't know why I'm like this. I'm so sorry. Like, he was the best. He was literally like, I'm so sorry. What is wrong with me? I go, I don't know. But don't come in my green room and tell me that your dumb fucking friend from New Jersey doesn't like my show. I don't care. I just had a good night. Anyway, personal story for you.
- [41:43]
B
Yeah. Then we. Can we continue on to the last chapter where now it looks like, you know, things are good between, you know, between everyone. Nora and Ruby, they went on their little tour on the show, and they came back. They were coming back. They said they're kind of getting famous and they was fun. And then Dean is like, they're coming back to see Dean? It's the Fourth of July. It's very clear that Eric's on his last potentially few hours. They take him out, and they all start to have kind of like a party. But so Eric keeps on saying, are they coming? Are they coming? And then you kind of think that, like, he's asking about his parents. Right?
- [42:20]
A
Right. Yeah. I wasn't sure, but, yeah, I think so.
- [42:24]
B
And then. And so a very. It's like at the very end of Eric's life, and Nora's there, and he starts talking to Nora, and he's like, mom, mom, mom. And she's like talking to him. And then I was like, oh, like, is this weird? Like, should she be like, no, I'm not your mom. Like, you're not. You're talking to Nora, not my mom. And then he goes, mama. And he goes, nora.
- [42:44]
A
Yeah, he goes, you were. You always were like a mom to me. So you think she's. Yeah. You think she's basically just trying to comfort him and let him believe whoever she is, but then he actually does know who it is, which is very. I like, sweet.
- [42:54]
B
I don't think I ever cried during a book. I didn't cry, but I almost cried at that part.
- [42:58]
A
I did too. And then when he said, charlie, is that you? Right, yeah.
- [43:03]
B
Passed over. Yeah.
- [43:04]
A
Yeah. Teary eyed again. No, but before, before all of that. Just real quick. I don't want to brush past the sad part, but maybe because I got teary eyed, I should, but I. When they. When. When Nora had decided that she's going with Ruby, they're going to do the Sarah Purcell show. And then. And then it turns them famous, right? I mean, now Ruby's famous now. It's whatever. And Dean keeps talking about how she's famous now and he hasn't really heard from her. And when he hears from her, she's like taking meetings that. And then she ends up. And they just are like, she's famous now. This is what she's always wanted. And. And it's only been like a couple days, so it's just funny. It's just like I. When he's like, oh, she's just. She's so famous now. And she's like, okay, no, she just had a big. A big thing happens. And I get what you're saying, but he's acting like he can't. It's like I can't even get a hold of her anymore for months. Like two days or something.
- [44:04]
B
Like two days.
- [44:05]
A
Because then. Because I thought, how long was this supposed to have been? But Eric's still around and we know that he wasn't doing well. And Nora, when they do come back, Ruby does end up coming back. And she goes, I am famous now, but we can live on this island. Because I. She goes, being famous is. Is so hard. Or something like that. And then she's like, but we could stay on this island because I turned down the sitcom, but I'm taking a book deal because I figured I can write that from here. And he's like, oh, amazing. So then. And of course they get married, blah, blah, Blah. Happy ending. And when they come back, though, Nora's still in a walking cast, so I'm like, no time has passed.
- [44:40]
B
Yeah, that part was a little bit, like. It felt like a little bit of a hole.
- [44:44]
A
It was just like a little, like.
- [44:46]
B
Gone for 48 hours.
- [44:47]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Where. I get it. You're basically saying this overnight thing happened where she blew up because everyone wants to talk to her because this big thing on the TV show. I get what the point was, but it just was written a little kind of cheesy in that sense to me. Maybe that's just because I'm around it too much.
- [45:10]
B
Yes. But overall, I love the book, baby.
- [45:14]
A
No, I did, too. I think it's nice. At the end, we knew we're going to have to lose Eric, and it was sad. And everyone sort of honors his life in their own way by healing. And Caroline's back with her husband and she's good. And. And Dean and Ruby get married and live on island.
- [45:35]
B
On island.
- [45:37]
A
And live on island. And Nora is. I guess we don't really know. Just back. Back to it. Right. I mean, everyone.
- [45:44]
B
I think so. I mean, yeah. I think she's kind of sounded like she was accepted again, just being truthful with the people what happened.
- [45:50]
A
Right. Yeah. Her sort of redemption tour. And I thought it was great. I would. I would. I give it. What do I do? What do I do? Martinis. I give four. I give it four martinis.
- [46:02]
B
I give it. I give it 11 and a half beers.
- [46:07]
A
Oh, wow.
- [46:08]
B
Yeah, I really liked it. I'll definitely. I'll definitely read more of her books.
- [46:13]
A
For sure. I will, too. And I will probably when you pick them, just because I'm so busy reading murdery books. But I will read more books by her if you pick it. No, I'll. I'll read maybe like on a summer vacation, you know?
- [46:29]
B
Okay.
- [46:29]
A
So a good beach read.
- [46:30]
B
Good beach read.
- [46:31]
A
Really good beach reads. Yeah. Because I think it's weird sometimes when I'm reading my murdery books right by the beach and I find them relaxing. We can all admit that that's a little bit weird. But, yeah, I give it. I mean, maybe I even give it four and a half. I don't know. I don't know what's really missing other than sometimes some of the little frustrating things about characters. But that's what they're meant to be, to make it right. Riled up. Right. But I did really like how she wove Eric's storyline through and. And then what you told me about Caroline's storyline makes a little bit more sense to me now, too. Not. I mean, I didn't think it was random. I just didn't. I was a little bit confused about what she was going through, but I get that it was more for Nora and Ruby's story to kind of trudge that along better. Mm. Okay. You good?
- [47:20]
B
I'm great. Yes. I was very happy with my pick.
- [47:23]
A
Yes. Good job, John. We'll give you.
- [47:26]
B
Thank you.
- [47:27]
A
Clap for a great pick. I thought it was really fun. Look Closer by David Ellis. Is your February book picked by me? It is definitely very different than this one because that's what we do here at the Book List.
- [47:42]
B
It's very much different.
- [47:44]
A
And as always, we won't fully review it or give you any spoilers until week four of February. So the weeks leading up will just be fun conversations, random things we sort of pull out of the book and then send a set of us send us off on tangents, but won't spoil anything for you so that if you are not caught up until we give the review, you don't have to worry. Go to sarah colonna.com for tickets to the shows that I mentioned and join the Book List winners on Facebook and follow us on Instagram at the Book List. What else, John?
- [48:15]
B
That's it.
- [48:17]
A
Okay, bye. Thanks for listening. The Book List.
- [48:22]
B
The Book Lisp.
- [48:24]
A
The Book List.
- [48:25]
B
The book lisp.
- [48:27]
A
The book Lisp.