“Summer Romance” by Annabel Monaghan

Summary

The Book Lisp Podcast Episode: “Summer Romance” by Annabel Monaghan
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
Date: May 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

Jon and Sarah—husband-and-wife duo and self-proclaimed book nerds—dive hilariously and thoughtfully into Annabel Monaghan’s latest romance, Summer Romance. In between biting banter and personal anecdotes, they break down the classic "beach read," its strengths, weaknesses, and its deeper themes of love, identity, and loss. The conversation is peppered with laughter, relatable asides, and moments of surprising poignancy—especially regarding family dynamics, self-worth, and the value of choosing love (even when it’s hard).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Impressions and Meet-Cute Setup

• Summary of the Plot:
  Jon recaps: “Summer Romance. Bit of a beach read. Ali, our main character, was getting divorced from her husband Pete. Piece of douchebag. He asked for divorce on the one year anniversary of her mother’s death.” (08:40–09:02)
• The hosts laugh about the “classic meet cute” where Ali’s dog pees on the new love interest’s shoes at the park.

2. Small-Town Dynamics and Identity Struggles

• Character Note: Ethan, former nicknamed “Scooter,” is Ali’s love interest (and her best friend’s kid brother).
• Jon: “When you grow up in a small town, people always know you for this one character that you are, right?...My nickname stemmed from my first failure in life.” (12:47–13:18)
• Both relate personally to feeling pigeonholed by childhood memories despite adult achievements, leading to a discussion on how small towns (and families) often don’t let people outgrow their past selves.

3. Family, Familiarity, and Belonging

• Sarah: “His family’s kind of like, ‘Oh, hey, cool, Scooter, how’s your life over there?’ And he’s like, ‘It’s great.’... You don’t act like you’re proud of him.” (14:41–15:14)
• They riff on how (in both the book and their real lives) family sometimes celebrates outdated or embarrassing moments rather than current successes.

Memorable quote:
Jon: “Whenever I go home… I’d been in the NFL for eight years… Do you want to talk about that? No. You want to talk about the time I got fucking drunk at Craven in 1998, you sons of bitches.” (13:37–14:15)

4. Romantic Choices and Sacrifice

• Jon objects to Ethan moving back to his hometown for Ali—a place where he felt undervalued. Sarah pushes back, noting Ethan had a fulfilling new life and questions the necessity of such sacrifice.

• The debate gets personal, as Jon compares it to his real-world choice to move for Sarah.

  • Jon: “All I want to be is with you. So now what do you have to say, bitch?” (23:10)
  • Sarah: “Ethan made the right choice...I just appreciated that they ended up making it his decision, that he even made kind of without her...He decided...‘I do want to be here after all, the family’s here’...” (26:42–28:57)

Timestamps for This Segment:

• Discussion on Ethan returning: 19:46–29:16

5. On Divorce and Gender Roles

• The hosts intensely dissect Pete (the ex-husband), his obnoxious entitlement, and how Ali loses herself in the relationship.

• Jon rails against the notion that breadwinning confers dominance:

  • Jon: “Money is no more important than the person that’s raising the kids. That’s an absolutely ridiculous thing.” (36:43)

• Sarah: “My only criticism would be, I never quite understood her fall...She just fell apart around Pete and became silent in their marriage...But now that you say it, that actually makes sense because there never is a why.” (37:16–40:09)

Highlight Moment:

Discussing how divorce shifts the basic dynamic in parenting, as when Ali’s kids thank their dad for lunch post-separation—a striking, subtle moment in the book (33:57–34:27).

6. Pet Ownership as a Metaphor for Love and Loss

• The recurring motif of adopting dogs knowing inevitable loss.
• Sarah: “We go through life knowing there’s going to be loss. And a perfect example is choosing a pet, because those are things that we have to make decisions for.” (47:06)
• The book’s wisdom: It’s worth the pain, relationships and love are worth potential heartbreak.

7. Emotional Climax: On Grief and Life’s Fairness

• Jon shares a moving story about his father’s perspective while terminally ill:
  • Jon: “So it’s easy to say ‘life’s not fair’ when shit’s going bad, but when shit’s going good, no one says, ‘life’s not fair.’ Right?” (48:29–48:45)
• Sarah: “Your dad was a smart man.” (48:33)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Face down, ass up—that’s the way we like to fuck. Remember that song?”
  (Jon, 02:02; keeping the show’s playful, irreverent tone!)

• “I didn’t expect to basically get my period during this episode.”
  (Sarah, 50:02; after a tearful wrap-up)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment Description | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:40–10:50 | Book summary, the "Scooter" nickname, and meet-cute details | | 12:47–15:14 | Life in a small town, identity, family expectations | | 19:46–29:16 | Relationships, sacrifice, and the ethics of moving for love | | 30:41–37:16 | Pete’s character, divorce, and shifting family dynamics | | 43:03–45:22 | Love, pets, and loss—metaphorical deep dives | | 47:06–48:45 | Jon’s father on grief and life perspective |

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Ratings & Final Thoughts

• Jon: “I go 11 out of 12 beers.” (49:54)
• Sarah: “Four out of five martinis...I didn’t expect to basically get my period during this episode.” (50:02)

Both agree the book surpassed their expectations, offering genuine laughs, sharp observations, and surprisingly deep reflections on love, loss, and self-worth.

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Closing

Listeners are encouraged to share their own thoughts on Summer Romance, and are teased with next month’s pick: “Kill For Me, Kill For You” by Steve Kavanaugh (a pendulum swing to psychological thriller land!). Patreon members get extra content—short stories and candid conversations.

“We don’t always end our book reviews in tears, but we usually do.” (Sarah, 48:55)

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Summary prepared by The Book Lisp—your hilariously heartfelt book club podcast!

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hi, John.

[B]

Oh, hey, girl.

[A]

What's up?

[B]

I'm just very annoyed by the technology that these podcasts run on. I mean, these. These nerds are so smart and they can't even figure out the simplest thing, just how to run a podcast anyways.

[A]

Or is it a you problem?

[B]

More than likely. But when in doubt, blame the nerds.

[A]

Yeah, we just had a second. Honestly, it wasn't that big of a deal. We just had an issue logging on. But John's mad because nothing's going to his hot Hotmail account. Let's be honest about what you're mad about. Your Hotmail account is showing its ass.

[B]

Yeah, I have several other accounts, but I like to stick to the 2000.

[A]

No.

[B]

What year was it when I signed? 1996.

[A]

We've just tested already.

[B]

I know, I know. I have other accounts.

[A]

Okay, well. What? I agree with you, but when it gets to the point where you can't get a email, this is not summer romance. This is John and Ryan, non room. John and Sarah, non romance. I don't know. I was trying to go with that.

[B]

Anyway, I'm gonna romance you all weekend, girl.

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna get it real good all weekend. In case anyone's interested, we're going to Cabo. So we're recording this ahead of time, this Wednesday night in the real World, and then you guys are getting this on Monday because we are recording ahead of time. Because, no, we don't want to record in Cabo. And so while you're listening to this right now, I'm probably getting fucked real good by John Ryan. Isn't that right, John?

[B]

You sure are, girl. Face down, ass up. That's the way we like to fuck. Remember that song?

[A]

I do now. I wish this was a video podcast because we've already made so many faces at each other.

[B]

Ah, I said that aloud.

[A]

You did? Anyway, John, did you see the other day, speaking of saying things out loud. Okay, we're about to get into it. This is week four month. The fourth Monday of the month. So you're about to hear all our thoughts on summer romance by Annabelle Monican. Your June book is Kill for Me, Kill for you by Steve Kavanaugh. It's real good. And what else? What else? Oh, we have patreon. It's only $5 a month. We do short stories where we have so much fun on the short stories and we either find new authors or talk or read authors that we already love doing short stories.

[B]

We've had a lot of fun.

[A]

And then we. Yeah, we do episodes on the 5th and the 25th. The 5th, the 15th and 25th. The 15th is always the short story this week. Just saying. Are reminded. If you're a Patreon member, your Memorial Day episode for Patreon, you're getting your regular episode on the 25th of this month because they fall on the same day. But your Patreon episode will come out that night because John and I are getting back from Cabo on 25th, and so we're going to record that night at home, a video podcast, talking about what we read, what we did, all the things. So $5 a month. Patreon's fun rate. Review subscribe what was I going to say, John?

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

So I post the other day. Okay, Olivia. Shout out Olivia. She is our editor.

[B]

Olivia Newton John.

[A]

Yes. Olivia and John. Yeah, she came back from the dead just to work for a podcast.

[B]

Olivia Newton John's dead.

[A]

John. Yes.

[B]

Has anyone told the guy from Greece, John Travolta? Yes. God damn it.

[A]

For some reason, our house is doing a weird thing right now where the way you just screamed, it just, like, bounced into this room really loudly, even though you're just in the other room. It doesn't usually do that, but you got real upset. Yeah, she's dead from cancer. Anything else?

[B]

How's Betty? How's Betty White doing?

[A]

Magic. All right, stop it. Can I tell you what I wanted to tell you? Guess so. I posted a clip the other day that Olivia made where you made a joke after I said abreast. Oh, we're gonna keep you abreast of what we're reading. And then you. Yep, that happened. You giggled. You can't help your. Your mom commented.

[B]

No, she didn't. My mom did.

[A]

On Facebook, on Instagram. She said, maybe I breastfed him for too long.

[B]

Maybe she didn't breastfeed me for long enough. That's the problem. That's why I'm having these brain injuries.

[A]

She said. She said, maybe I nursed him too long. He did like it.

[B]

Here's a story. She didn't.

[A]

Your mom is hilarious.

[B]

She's very hilarious. She's very, very funny.

[A]

Get closer to the microphone.

[B]

71 years old. She's hilarious.

[A]

Get closer to the microphone. Okay, baby, I'm just Helping.

[B]

Okay, so she breastfed all four of us. But the last child, my brother Stephen, she breastfed him so long that he could describe what the breast milk. Breast milk tasted like.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And they say that's actually good. You breastfeed a kid till, like, four. And I think that he was, like,

[A]

really good for kids.

[B]

I think that he was, like, 14.

[A]

Not seriously, but.

[B]

But, like, when you can, like, actually explain to your mother what the breast milk tastes like, that's a long time.

[A]

A long time. Listen, I don't really know what's doing with your mom. She's the best. It made me laugh. No, it made me laugh. Do I think if anyone got breastfed too long, it was definitely Steve, just based on his personality. But, yeah, other than that, it just made me laugh. And I want. I don't think you knew that because you don't do Instagram. So I wanted to share it with you live.

[B]

That's really funny. I didn't know. I didn't know. My mom followed the podcast.

[A]

Oh, she sure does.

[B]

And I actually got a text message from your mother the other day commenting on something we said about her on the podcast. And I said, oh, I didn't realize that she listens to the podcast either.

[A]

She doesn't listen. She wouldn't know.

[B]

I think someone tipped her off.

[A]

My cousin. Yeah, I forgot. What. What was that one about?

[B]

Something about Luke Bryan.

[A]

Yeah, but it was my cousin. That. That one I always know because my cousin Leslie listens, and she always tells my mom what we said about her that. You think she. She could figure out how to listen to a podcast? Are you crazy?

[B]

No, your mom. Your mom. I love her. She has no filters. Thinking of this, you know, I remember when one of the first times I met her, she goes, we always hope to Sarah. We. We really love you, John. We love you. But we always hope that she would have married a country music singer.

[A]

Oh, I didn't even know that. They hooked me. That's nice.

[B]

Yeah, well, I mean, it wouldn't be NFL. Yeah, but that's not played in the NFL. Is that not good enough for you?

[A]

It's not country music.

[B]

And I said, contra girl. Psych it for me, girl. Shake it for me, girl. Country girl. No Super Bowls. I wasn't shaking my hips. I was winning Super Bowls.

[A]

Anyway, we are here to actually do something, which is discuss summer romance. Yeah, we're done. Annabelle Monigan, summer romance. Very John pick. I did really like it. Let's break it down. Okay, you start. Since it was your pick, this Is a classic.

[B]

Me pick. Summer romance. Bit of a bit beach read. Ali, our main character, was getting divorced from her husband Pete. Piece of douchebag.

[A]

He.

[B]

He asked for divorce on the one year anniversary of her mother's death.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let that sink in for a second, please. And then she meets a guy who she's like. At the dog park. At the dog park. Classic. Meet cute. Meet. Meet cute. I was gonna say meet.

[A]

I like meat cube. I like meat cube.

[B]

It's. It's from always sunny in Philadelphia. A meat. A meat cube. Okay. So she meets this guy. Classic. Meet cute. Her dog pisses on his shoe and they urinates on his shoe.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

They start to talk and then she. They go out on a date. Eventually go on date. She's like, this guy's so hot, I want to go on a date with him. And then here's the problem that I have with this story, Sarah. So she goes on a date with this guy and he doesn't tell her, even though that he knows. He's actually known her, admired her from afar for 24 years. Since he was 14. He was a freshman in high school. She was a senior. And he loved her. Also the brother of her best friend.

[A]

Yes. Okay, I'm gonna counter this in a second.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

So you.

[B]

They go on their first date. It goes great. And then they find out that you are the brother of my best friend.

[A]

And.

[B]

And she's like, I had no clue. How do you not have any clue? They live in a small town. Beechwood, Connecticut. Small town. Her family runs the inn, runs the local diner. Is the family of all families. Her best friend since ninth grade. She doesn't know who. Who her brother is.

[A]

Okay, so we're on the same page. So I. So I thought you were going to say you had a problem with him going on the date with her and not revealing who he was. No, we're on the same page. Yeah, it's that she didn't know who he was. How do you fucking not know that's your best friend's brother? Nobody changes that much in that amount of time.

[B]

And so I. They. They went to high school at the same time. She was a senior. He was a freshman.

[A]

But yeah, but she knew who he was then. She's.

[B]

I know.

[A]

He is now.

[B]

Oh, little. Little Scooter.

[A]

She was like, what? Scooter.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so that was his nickname. His real name is Ethan.

[B]

Ethan.

[A]

And he hates that people still call him Scooter. But then she keeps calling him Scooter throughout the book. Which I thought was shitty on her end for someone who's getting divorced. Okay, she did a lot. She did a lot. She. She called him Scooter a lot. And because I highlighted it a bunch in my Kindle, she called him Scooter a lot. When he specifically told her. I don't. I'm not Scooter. I'm Ethan. I'm a grown man. Don't talk to me like that. So even though, listen, we all know how this book ended up. They ended up together, rode off into the skate park together, and we knew they were going to, and I wanted them to, but of course, she. In that way, she kind of sucked because she kept calling him Scooter. There was like kind of a joke where he liked that her kids called him Scooter or something because it was familiar, this and that, but. But she called him Scooter when he made it clear that he didn't like that anymore and that he thought his parents disrespected him and his family. Understand that he had a big life and a real life. He was a successful person in this other town, all this stuff. And she's just like, okay, Schooner. And I. So she. A couple of times, rub me the wrong way, okay?

[B]

Because his whole point was like, when you grow up in a small town, people always know you for this one character that you are, right? And he goes, my first. My first failure in life was that I couldn't. I couldn't crawl. So I scooted along on my butt and they called me Scooter. So my nickname stemmed from my first failure in life. And now it's what everyone knows me for. Not that they know me for that activity, but they know me for that nickname. And I relate it back to my first failure in life. And then I go on to Manhattan, have a successful career, is a lawyer. I moved back to this other town that's a few miles away, 120 miles away, whatever it is, Devin. And people love me there. People think I'm so great. And then they come back here and they're like, hey, Scooter, are you gonna get kicked out of high school again? It's like, oh, no, I'm 35 years old now. I'm not getting kicked out of high school. And a part of me can really relate to this because whenever I go home. Yeah, but like, I still remember going home. Like I'd been in the NFL for eight years going home. Like, hey, John, remember that time you got drunk at Craven? I'm like, oh, I guess. Yeah, I was 24 years old. I'm 44 years. That was 20 years ago. But that's what you guys want to talk about, by the way. Since then, I played in the NFL for 13 years, won a Super Bowl. Do you want to talk about that? No. I talked about the time I got fucking drunk at Craven in 1998, you sons of bitches.

[A]

Because that's their memory. And I can relate to that. I can, too. And it was something I'd written down to talk to you about because this isn't the same thing, but just family. Because a big part of this is Ethan slash. Scooter's family won't let him out of this box right where she sees him.

[B]

Ali's kind of shitty about this, by the way.

[A]

Yeah. His family's kind of like, oh, hey, cool, Scooter, how's your life over there? And he's like, it's great.

[B]

Remember you went to Manhattan, got successful, now you're back in Devon. It's like, dude, I'm doing my thing.

[A]

And. And he has a great business there. And he. And he. And. And they make him a real har. Hallmark movie guy. Like, he changes someone's smoke alarm battery. You know, I mean, it's real stupid.

[B]

I love it. I love it.

[A]

It's great. But that part where he talks about how his family now they're belittling him and, and then.

[B]

And.

[A]

And later Ally sticks up for him to his sister and. And even says something like, you know, you guys act like he doesn't have a good life there, and he does. And she's like, oh, no, that's not how we feel about them. We. We love him. We. We love him. And. And Ali's kind of explaining, you don't. I know you love him, but you don't act like you're proud of him. There's a whole. And I related to that in that sense of my family doesn't do that to me. But just not career wise. But like, you. I mean, you had a good reference with the Craven thing and all that. But just. Even just adult wise, just my mom and a lot of members of my family are like, oh, oh, what's Sarah gonna bring to cook tonight? She can barely, you know, to go thing. And I'm like, no, I actually cook all the time and very good cook. You know, they. Yeah. And they. Well, let's not get crazy, but very good cook, baby. These things stick.

[B]

Very good. Yes. And that's what they want to go back to.

[A]

Yeah, they want to go back to And. And I think that's across the nation, across big cities. Small, mini. Small city. Doesn't matter. But I do think in smaller towns, like you said, it is. Your friends wanna. I think it's a. It's more of a we never left here. So that's our favorite memory type thing, right?

[B]

I guess so.

[A]

And I'm not on that because I'm from a very small town, as you know.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

But yeah, I don't. I don't. My last memory. There doesn't need to be your last conversation with me.

[B]

It's not. It shouldn't be your last memory of me. I've done a few things since then.

[A]

And even if. But. And even if they haven't seen you since then, do you. Do you want my last memory of you to be you, Me holding your hair back over the trash can or whatever. So that's what he was fending off. It felt like. And so he builds this nice life in this other town. And so my only. My biggest problem with this book, for those of you that didn't read it, most of you I know did. But if you didn't read it, it's the. Yeah, they. It's the old school. They see each other, they fall in love. The. He's ends up to be the brother of his. Her best friend. She's getting a divorce and she's married to a real douchebag.

[B]

Just a piece of.

[A]

Oh, just a piece of Pete.

[B]

Pete is just a piece of.

[A]

Just an idiot. And. And they have kids, so she's staying in her town. He comes into town, he lives about a couple hours away. They fall in love. She thinks it's just a summer romance. He thinks it's summer romance, but he's been in love with her his whole life. And are they going to end up together? Are they not? Of course. There. So she. My only issue was he's built this nice life where people think he's this scooter, this dumbass. And he's built a wonderful life for himself in another town a couple hours away. And I didn't like that at the end he ends up deciding to come back to where she is and come back to his hometown, even though they. Annabelle Monaghan did a really good job of making the story say, hey, he ended up deciding to come back here and being with Ali because he wanted to. And he. There was a. I think I. I took a screenshot of a quote that he's. That where he said like he was happy, but I got it. Hold on. He was happy, but shit, now I can't find it. But he, he's like, I was happy there, but I was happy when I, when I found you and got with you. I feel as I can be happy anywhere as long as I'm with you kind of thing. Beautiful, Great, wonderful. It ends up fine and it ends up a good choice, it seems like, but these two, they live two hours away from each other. You can tell them, exhausted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With the story. They live two hours away from each other and they act like there's just no way to make this work.

[B]

Well, well, okay.

[A]

Is it really that hard? You're full blown adults.

[B]

She has two kids, three kids. She can't just pick up and leave. He has the whole thing. He has a whole thing against this Beechwood community where they've treated him like a little scooter. Like a little guy that freaking up in ninth grade that's still treating him. He's 35 years old. They're treating him like the, the little local community who screwed up in ninth grade and now he moved to a community 200 miles away. They treat him like gold because he opened a skate park for these people.

[A]

So he should stay there.

[B]

He's saving these, this community from terrible landlords because he's a lawyer and he's trying to save everyone. And he's like. She goes, the first time she, he goes, would you like to come to my hometown or my, my town I live in, in Devon? She comes with him and she's like, oh my God. Like this, this guy is like the mayor of the city. He's like. He stops by a hot dog stand, he's like, hey, you know Ethan, we love you. He's not Scooter anymore. He's Ethan. In this new town they go to

[A]

a cute little Italian restaurant. I want to go there.

[B]

I want to go to that place.

[A]

I know, babe.

[B]

It's like the Yoohoo Room. Someday we're going to go to the Yoohoo Room.

[A]

Oh, I don't know what the UHU Room is. It was a place I'd draw.

[B]

It was a dream you had.

[A]

Yeah. It was in. I was in a plane and then I felt. And then I came out the bottom of the plane and I floated over this beautiful little city. And then I went to a bar called the Yoohoo Room. It was all a dream, but it was so fun.

[B]

Well, seven years later, I still talk about. I want to go to the Yoohoo Room.

[A]

Babe, it looked real good.

[B]

Okay? I'm on board. So I'm saying that he lives in this town where he's like, finally accepted. He's kind of like the hero of this town. He's like the mayor of this town. And then he goes to this back his hometown and he's like. People are like, oh, are you okay? How you doing, bud? You doing okay?

[A]

Heard.

[B]

I heard you. You're not doing so well because you got in trouble in ninth grade and now you're 35. So he is basically saying, I'm going to give all this up and come back to this town because I'd rather be with you than to be with that.

[A]

Yeah. And I disagree with that.

[B]

But, but, but. Okay, but tell me why stay in the.

[A]

Because stay in the town where you. Everyone respects you. Why are you coming back to a town where you have to keep fucking proving yourself?

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

You're having a nice life. That Italian restaurant sounded great. The hot dog stand stand sounded great. Sure, you got to change whatever faces, smoke alarm batteries every once in a while. But why are you coming back to this town? Scooter, even your girlfriend.

[B]

Oh, okay. Sarah Colonna. I live in this town called Seattle. People love me there. I had a great life. I loved it so much. I met you. I said, I'll move to wherever you are. I left Seattle and moved to Los Angeles.

[A]

Dare you throw that one in the face?

[B]

And I would not take it back in a million years because I just wanted to be where you were. A guy moved to the city. I don't know anyone. I know nobody. I have zero friends here. I left the city where I was the Ethan of the city.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And I came because all I want to be is with you. So now what do you have to say, bitch?

[A]

Ethan made the right choice. I. Well, for one, okay, you weren't. You were. Your family, your friends, whatever. I mean, you were. You're successful. I don't know. Now I'm fucked.

[B]

Yeah, I really backed you into a corner there.

[A]

You did. But no, I still have. Because I didn't ask you to move. I guess she didn't either because she kind of did. But we figured it out for several years. For several years we didn't live.

[B]

I don't think we touched on this.

[A]

Okay, yeah, I'm.

[B]

We had a long, delicious relationship. Let me finish.

[A]

Stop yelling. We had a long distance relationship for the first nine years.

[B]

That's what I just said, baby.

[A]

I know. And so I didn't ask you to make a decision. You know, these two acted like, oh, my God. We have to drive an hour and a half. We're never going to be able to survive. Okay, so that I was like, come on, guys, figure it out. I know she has kids. I know she has an ex husband. I know. But yeah, so go on the days that you don't have the kids once. Because Ethan did the thing where he dressed up and played the lawyer, which he is really a lawyer. And that was fun. I love that he like fudge over the, you know. Yeah. It all in the ex husband's face and all that stuff.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

But. But they acted like they couldn't figure it out. Like you guys drove there and back in a day.

[B]

The same day.

[A]

There was an episode. There was an episode. There was a chapter where they drove back and forth in a day. So it's not that far. And so you and I did that for a long time further nine years. I flew almost a day. And then when you decided to move here, I will say in my defense and in.

[B]

You don't have to defend. You don't have to defend yourself.

[A]

I know, I know. But I am going to. And in defense of my stance on this book is you were never going to stay in Seattle after you finish playing.

[B]

You have moved to Phoenix, Arizona.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Build a big old mansion outside of town.

[A]

Philadelphia. So you weren't. You were not going to stay in Seattle anyway once you. You loved it there. Loved it. In fact, now you talk about trying to get a place there because now we. We love it so much.

[B]

We do. I love it.

[A]

You weren't going to stay there. You weren't when I met you. It wasn't. You didn't say, hey, I live in Seattle and that's that. So that's different than what happened in this book. Okay. Right. Is it not different?

[B]

It is different. Yes.

[A]

I don't. Why are you so defensive?

[B]

I'm not being defensive at all. I said, yes, it's different.

[A]

Okay. Did you not want to move from Seattle, where we're getting at? I don't know what's happening right now.

[B]

I just said, I want to be wherever you are until the day I die.

[A]

Okay, so you're saying Ethan wanted to just be where. Listen, I liked the way they ended up wrapping it up. I liked that he ended up saying, I'm buying this house. And he didn't do it for her. In. In his mind. He did it after she broke up with him. He go, he made all these decisions without her. So I did like that. He goes, I fucking sold the house. I sold it to the city. Kids are going to come. I'm going to take care, you know, the kids that are edged out of the system like he was. I'm going to take. Yeah, I'm going to take care of him. This is what the whole thing is. My parents know because it was his parents house before. He did a great thing and he did all, he did do all of it without consulting her because he knew that. He decided, he ended. He was like, I do want to be here after all the family's here. I. I want my nephew to be able to walk because they, they. He made a joke that he's never gonna be able to walk. They're gonna want there. He's gonna be scooter at the end of the day. And his parents who went to Florida ended up coming back anyway. So he did make the decision on his own to come back there. So she did. Annabelle Monaghan did a good job of making it so that he didn't sacrifice. It wasn't a sad sacrifice for him. It was because that was the whole thing where I went, this guy loves his life and he's got this beautiful life there. He's gonna give it up to come here because she can't move because she has kids, which is fine. Of course, people have to make decisions like that in life. I just appreciated that they ended up making that. She ended up making it his decision that he even made kind of without her. And he even said to her at one point, she said, thank you for doing this. And he said, I mostly did it for me because he realized he could be happy there. So I. All this arguing that we've been doing, and boy, have we been arguing. I think we ended up in the same place that she did a good job of making it his decision. And then Allie didn't have to feel guilty for it because he was doing wonderful things with his decision.

[B]

He was. And he says, I'm going to go back one day a week to go to the skate park and look after these kids. And then I have some of these kids, when they age out of the system, they're going to come here and live in the house that my parents donated to me. I inherited from my parents. They're not dead yet, but you know what I'm saying? So it's all going to work out.

[A]

I'll tell you what that Pete, the husband, here's the.

[B]

I'm gonna tell you a story.

[A]

Okay, Go ahead. Oh, boy.

[B]

I played football with a guy when I was 22 years old. I was the Youngest player in the league and the oldest player in the league also happened to be on my team. And his name was Troy west when he was 38 and we were best friends right away. And he, he was talking about one of the coaches one day and he goes, I just want to take him, put him over my knee, pull down his pants and spank them. He goes, every time I look at him, that's all I can think about. And whenever we talked about Pete in this book, that's all I can think about. Say I want to take him and spank him. A little asshole.

[A]

Little asshole.

[B]

You know, he's a little prick.

[A]

So he is. Yeah, he's her. Ali's ex husband. They're getting a divorce through this misogynistic piece of shit. Yeah, total piece of. And, and, and so they're separated, they have kids, but they're separated. They're getting a divorce. And of, of course the fun part is Scooter Ethan ends up being the. Her lawyer and with p. Which is really fun, but I like that part of it. But he, he, she has the house. She gets the house and it's her house for I think she says 14 more years or something and this guy

[B]

until her youngest son turns 18 or something. Then they, then they'll sell it. But they want to keep the kids in the house that they were raised in. And that's part of the divorce agreement.

[A]

But it's her so it's hers so. But he keep. He just comes in and out as he pleases.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

He goes upstairs to change around her bedroom. They tells her about her crossword looks. Fuck you. Get out. That's not cool.

[B]

And just Alison Monaghan paints such a good picture of a guy. Annabelle, sorry, I apologize that you just don't want in your house. You just a guy that just went on a 10 kilometer bike ride and now he's with his shorts. His like he's like spandex shorts and comes in like walks into your house and walks up to your rooms like I'm just going to change real quick. Alley. She's like this is my house now.

[A]

You don't just walk, you know, remind him. You know, it reminded me of. I don't, I don't think you've met him.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

My ex. Step brother in law. Is that how that works? Yeah, my stepsisters.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know the guy.

[A]

That's who it reminded me.

[B]

I've never met him though.

[A]

Big mom.

[B]

I met his mom.

[A]

Yeah, she's great. She's awesome, Fantastic, endless. You know, he's fine, but he has a big, he's a big bike guy. Owns a. Owns. He's big bike guy, Loves his bike rides. Big bike for sure Prior for sure prioritizes bike rides over people and life and children and families and whatnot. As Peters. So it reminded me of him so much that I was a little bit triggered during it that I was like, oh really? This guy? This guy's a dick. Fuck this guy. Because it just, it couldn't, I mean it basically was him, him, his overall like comfortability.

[B]

It's so disrespectful. Just that he comes down, he grabs a Gatorade over fridge and he's like, well the kids going to be home? He's like, I don't know, like when I feel like it. He's like, well no, I. What, what, what time? And then she's been obviously walked all over for the last however many years where she's like, so when, when are you gonna bring the kids back? Like, oh, maybe early, maybe late. I gotta see. I might have a big bike ride tomorrow. We'll see.

[A]

Oh yeah. And then at one point he says that he's gonna, the kids are gonna stay over and then he changes it because he decides he wants to do a bike ride in the morning. He's very disrespectful. One thing that she, Annabelle Monicans did a great job of, of writing about him that made him really clear was and this is, you know, for all the divorced kids out kids of divorce out there. But he drops the kids off after taking them to lunch and this isn't his fault. This is just, I just thought it was a great, well written sort of comment on, on life after divorce. But he drops the kids off and they thanked him for lunch and she and Ally was like, I they've never had to thank him for lunch before. That was just basic life.

[B]

You get lunch providing for your kids.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So but now when, now dad picks you up and takes you to lunch and so you thank him when he drops you off. And I, I thought that was a pretty cool little, I don't know, just slice of life sort of. Because I thought about that and I went, oh. As you know, because my parents were divorced and yeah. So my dad used to, when he took me places, I would thank him. But it's like, oh, but I never, I don't think I thanked my mom because she, I lived with her.

[B]

Well, I think, you know, you saying that. Which also triggered me I guess is what the kids say now is that in their relationship he, they, she said like I kind of lost myself because he was the one that went home, went out to work and I stayed home and took care of the kids. And so I felt like he was, he was kind of making it instilled in me that he was the, the breadwinner, he was the one contributing more to our relationship than I was. And I think because I grew up in a household like that, but the exact opposite of that in that my mother stayed home, took care of us four kids. She also worked her ass off in the home babysitting kids, not making nearly as much money as my dad did. That was never ever, ever, ever a fucking issue or any ever talked about. It was always 50, 50, everything. There was never like, well, dad makes the money so he gets to decide this. That was never ever something that was ever talked about. It was so it was, and it was something that was instilled in us. Not that they have to ever say that to us, but it was obvious. Whereas like mom stays home and takes care of these fucking four kids all day. So you're going to say that's less important than the other person going out and making however much money in a day? Absolutely the fuck not.

[A]

And now when I preach, John Ryan preach, this is why.

[B]

But when you see that I don't

[A]

have to say anything.

[B]

Yeah, when you see especially, I mean, we, I, you and I have a brother in law who stays at home and takes care of the kids. Well, my sister goes out and makes a ton of money and it's never like, oh, she gets to decide where the money goes. She gets to decide who gets the nicest.

[A]

Partnership.

[B]

It's a partnership. So you're saying money is no more important than the person that's raising the kids. That's an absolutely ridiculous thing. So growing up, even though I was from a family that I never thought that like, oh, dad is more powerful than mom because he brings home the big box. That's not how it fucking works.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so in this story how she kind of said like, I started to lose myself. She even started to say something very small, how he wanted cinnamon in his coffee. I believe it was. Yeah, she was like, used to. Because now he's going out to make the money. So as if like he's more important than me because he's making the money and I'm taking care of the kids and I fucking hate that. Yeah, I'm saying I feel bad for her that she felt like she was losing herself when she shouldn't be. When she was doing actually a more important role than he was doing, even though he was bringing home the money.

[A]

She was. I mean, I think my criticism book wise and this isn't about what you just talked about because beautiful speech and like may you all find yourself a John Ryan or if you haven't already, but, or just be a John Ryan. You don't have to be married. Just be smart like John. I, my only criticism would be I never quite understood, I don't think I understood her like fall or. I know losing her mom was a big impact and, and I can relate to that. We all can. Any of us that have lost a parent can relate to how hard that is. And him being in the end her husband was, I mean, I obviously didn't have that issue. My husband was right there by my side the whole time. But her husband was kind of just like a shit and didn't really recognize her loss and, and she felt like she lost herself and then losing her mom compiled on that. But I don't think I was ever clear on like what it was that, that made her this sort of just what's the, I don't know the words, but the, the, she just fell apart around Pete and became silent in their marriage and didn't stand up for herself anymore and let him all over her even in after their split. And I'm not, I know that happens and, and it's awful and I know that there's several reasons that like that happens to men and women both ways. But I, I don't think in this book I ever fully got a picture of, of why she just kept talking about how she lost herself. But I never really, I wanted a little bit more of a why. Does that make sense?

[B]

No, it does. I, I, I just kind of took it as it was like a gradual process like they both were, she was an accountant and she's a, you know, a, a big city accountant and then just kind of like it fell back and then it kind of naturally felt like she wasn't doing as much because she wasn't doing what her college degree set her out to do and then kind of took a backseat because she had kids and then her, now her husband's going out and like moving up the corporate ladder or whatever. And then it felt, that's what it felt like to me. But there wasn't, as you said, there wasn't like an exact, like this is why it happened. It just felt.

[A]

Yeah, but now that you say It. That actually makes sense because I don't think there ever is a why. Right. So you laying it out like that helped me because that doesn't. There is never a why. I understand that.

[B]

But

[A]

I think, I guess my point was there. It felt like from what she was describing, from her pov was almost like there was such a big fall off between who she used to be, who she was now. And. And so I wondered where. Where that happens.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But. But that's smart. What you're saying is, oh, it was a gradual decline. And then. And she's married to this douchebag who's obviously not supporting her. So she just get. She's getting kind of used to just being the lesser, the lesser, the lesser. And he's like, oh, that's just Ally. And she's. And, and so. And then she's like, I'm gonna organize other people's life. Well, mine falls apart because that's what a lot of people do. Right? We find ways to help others when we can't help ourselves. And that made perfect sense to me. Like the best advice, you know, the best advice givers never take their own advice kind of thing. Right. But yeah, that makes sense. It was more of a gradual decline. I mean, I. Listen, I. I wanted her. When you read a book like this, you just want her to tell Pete to go blow himself. Himself. F. Himself.

[B]

Go.

[A]

Like, he's such a D bag. I love that. She brings in Ethan slash Scooter to be the lawyer and he just kind of acts wacky and this guy's like, who's this clown? And then it turns out, well, that's the clown that's banging your ex wife and making her better.

[B]

Yeah, like, yeah, that's so. Yeah, that's so great. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But of course I wanted her to find her voice a little bit earlier because you get frustrated with her at times. You're like, oh my God, this guy coming in the door, going upstairs to change for soccer. Just disregarding looking at your crossword, which is way too personal. Don't look at my wordle. Don't look at my wordle.

[B]

How dare you.

[A]

So I wanted her to find things sooner, but that's also the mark of. In my brain, a good author is when you, you get, you get, you. You get the reader rooting for the character or wanting things go. Come on, don't you know, Right. Even though we probably knew where it was going to go because of the genre of the book, we knew it was going to be because it's One of my books. Well, no, just. I mean, I knew, you know, it's. They're not going to not end up together. It's not. That's not the kind of book. It's not going to be summer romance with a colorful cover and then end up where one of them dies. It's just not. That's not the book we know.

[B]

And you know what? The more we talk about it, the deeper I think this book is. Baby, I think you got to give me a little bit of credit here because I thought it was a bit of a surface level book. Now that we talk, it's a pretty deep book.

[A]

Okay, you know. You know what? Let me tell you something.

[B]

Okay, go ahead, Color.

[A]

I'll agree with you on that. She. A couple things that are deep in this book. One, there's a quote where she says, I want to know if I could spend one more day with him before he goes, because there's value in a single good day.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So she's talking about thinking it's going to be over this and that, but starting to realize just the value of a good day. Right. And I like that. And then the other part that we obviously cannot end this podcast without talking about is a lot of references to pet ownership and how they say you get a dog and you know you're going to fucking lose the dog one day and you know it's going to suck, but you do it because you're setting yourself up for pain. Why the fuck will people do that? And then at the end of this book, she goes, I'm always going to have a dog because it's worth the pain, is her point. She's talking about the dog. She's talking about him. She's talking about love. She's talking about loss. She's talking about her neighbor. She's talking about everything when she says that. And as big, obviously pet people in this family. And John has never had. Had to do that yet. Right?

[B]

I have. But yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah. As a kid. Right, right. Which I. I forgot. But yes. You had dogs. Right, when you were a kid. Yes. Yeah, but I like that. I like that that was a reference point in this book of, oh, we put ourselves out there for something that we know is going to end badly. Like, not necessarily for relationships. You. You do assume your relationship. Like, we didn't get married ever thinking it's going to end. And I mean, it won't. But. Does someone die? Probably. Maybe this weekend in Cabo. We don't know. We recorded this ahead of time.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

Hopefully that doesn't come back to bite.

[B]

There might be a candlelight vigil for us tonight on Monday the 20th.

[A]

Whatever it is, 5th Happy Memorial Day weekend. It's gonna be fun.

[B]

You know, maybe. Go ahead.

[A]

Sorry. No, just. I just liked that. That this woman who has squashed some feelings down and hidden some things, kept kind of referenced a few times because of course, they met from. They met in the first place or saw each other in the first place, even though she should have known who it was because it's her best friend's brother, but they saw each other in the first place because her dog sniffed him out and peed on him. Whatever. So at the dog park. So there's references there to that. And I just think that's an overall sort of life. Lovely lesson of. Yeah, we. I mean, the first time I. Not first time I'd lost several. Several pets in my life, but first time, my own, on my own as an adult, out of my house, not a shared pet with my parents, had to put my cat of 16 years down that I had on my own. I was like, I am never getting a cat again. This is the worst feeling in the world. And then you go, I mean, I. And I did take a while. I. And Which I understand if. If any of you do, but I would say do it faster. Get another one faster. Because what you do is you save another pet, another life out of a shelter, and you then honor your deceased pet. Anyway, I just thought that was a beautiful sort of reference throughout the book of. We go through life knowing there's going to be loss. And a perfect example is choosing a pet, because those are things that we have to make decisions for.

[B]

Yeah, I. I really like that, because I am going to lose my mind when we lose one of these three cats that we have in our house. But is it too late? I'm going to bring this one thing up. Is it too late? Because it reminded me of this story of my dad. And whenever we talk about your dad, my dad, we usually end up crying. I know, but my dad, when I first made the NFL, it was kind of a big deal in my hometown, and he happened to be terminally ill with cancer, and he only had a couple months to live when I made the team. And they had interviewers to come to the house and they're talking to him. And the guy at the end of the interview, the guy goes, life's just not fair. My dad, the guy who's on his deathbed, he was. Life's not fair. My dad Goes, what are you talking about? He goes, when I walked my daughters down the aisle, no one said, life's not fair. When my son was playing college football, my younger brother, when he started playing college football and I got to watch him in the stands, no one said, life's not fair. When I got to see John play in the NFL, no one said, life's not fair. So why is it now that we say life's not fair?

[A]

Your dad was a smart man.

[B]

So it's easy to say life's not fair when shit's going bad, but when shit's going good, no one says, life's not fair. Right?

[A]

I don't have much more to say. I know. I'm like, you got me. All right.

[B]

All right, baby. Let's go to Cabo. Let's go to Cabo, baby.

[A]

All right. We don't. If you're new here, we don't always end our book reviews in tears, but we usually do. But maybe so emotional in this home. Thank you guys for listening. And your June book is Kill for Me. Kill for you by Steve Kavanaugh. How much lighter reading. Just a couple of ladies killing people. And we will. Don't forget that we have Patreon the 5th, the 15th, and the 25th of every month. The 15th is short stories. This month, the 25th, which is memorial Day, we will be coming back from Cabo, so we will give you your episode that night, but it will come out that night instead of the morning of. And we will recap what we're reading. Cabo. Just a bunch of silliness. And thank you guys for being here. Let us know your thoughts about this book. Oh, you have to. How many out of the 12 pack, John?

[B]

I go. I thought I was gonna say 10, and then once we talked about it, I go 11.

[A]

I. I'm doing four out of five. Four out of five martinis. Yeah. Because it. I didn't expect to basically get my period during this episode. So. Four out of five martinis. Eleven out of 12 beers.

[B]

Beers.

[A]

Yeah. And I'll see you guys next week. The book list.

[B]

The book lisp.

[A]

The book list, the book lisp. The book lisp.