"The New Wife" by Sue Watson Discussion

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The New Wife" by Sue Watson Discussion

Podcast: The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
Episode: "The New Wife" by Sue Watson Discussion
Release Date: February 24, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Book Lisp, hosts Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna dive deep into Sue Watson's gripping psychological thriller, "The New Wife." Recorded remotely from Phoenix and Los Angeles, Jon and Sarah offer a candid and humorous analysis of the novel, exploring its intricate plot, complex characters, and unexpected twists.

---

Introduction to "The New Wife"

Sarah opens the discussion by expressing her excitement about the book, mentioning that despite not having discussed it extensively beforehand, both she and Jon were intrigued by the unresolved elements and the lengthy epilogue. Jon concurs, adding that the book maintained suspense as it seemed too much was left unresolved when the supposed killer was apprehended.

Sarah Colonna [05:03]: "Overall thoughts? I liked it a lot... there was a lot of book left when they supposedly found the killer."

First Impressions and Initial Reactions

Jon shares his initial suspicion of James being the murderer, highlighting how he found other suspects too obvious or far-fetched. However, he was unsettled by the substantial portion of the book that remained unresolved after James's arrest, leading him to anticipate a significant plot twist.

Jon Ryan [05:09]: "I thought James did it the whole time. There’s too much book left... someone else did it."

Sarah echoes similar sentiments, appreciating the book's ability to mislead readers with red herrings and multiple suspects. She discusses her surprise at the epilogue revealing both James and Tim as antagonists, which she hadn't anticipated.

Sarah Colonna [06:04]: "I never suspected James and I really liked the book because I liked that there were so many turns."

Character Analysis

Georgie and Her Relationships

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Georgie, the protagonist, and her intricate relationships with other characters. Sarah criticizes Georgie's passive nature, especially during critical moments when stronger reactions could have altered the narrative's direction.

Sarah Colonna [16:57]: "I wanted Georgie to yell it out a little bit... but she kind of just did that."

Jon adds that Georgie's inability to stand up against injustices surrounding her son Sam adds to the tension, making her a more complex and relatable character.

Jon Ryan [07:21]: "Georgie was like... you think Sam didn't do it... she couldn't wrap her mind around that."

Helen and Her Transformation

Helen, Georgie's friend and Sam's mother, undergoes a significant transformation throughout the novel. Initially portrayed as a party-loving individual, Helen's grief after her daughter's death pushes her into destructive behaviors, including alcohol abuse. Sarah appreciates this character development, relating to Helen's struggles and the impact of loss on relationships.

Sarah Colonna [17:15]: "Helen was pretty hard done by... I related to her the most."

Jon discusses Helen's manipulative actions, such as her affair with James and how she leverages relationships to protect her interests, further complicating the story.

Jon Ryan [34:33]: "She screwed Helen, screwed Georgie, screwed Sadie... He's the only one that obviously George doesn't know this."

James: The Elusive Antagonist

James remains a central figure as both a suspect and a character shrouded in mystery. Sarah finds his continuous presence and manipulative behavior frustrating, while Jon criticizes James for his lack of accountability and the superficial way his misdeeds are revealed.

Jon Ryan [44:21]: "This guy's really... he screwed Helen, he screwed Georgie, screwed Sadie..."

Sarah Colonna [35:22]: "Need more information on why you thought it was James the whole time."

Plot Twists and Suspense

The book masterfully weaves suspense through its plot twists, keeping readers on edge. The revelation that both James and Tim are culpable adds layers to the narrative, challenging initial assumptions and highlighting the complexities of intertwined relationships.

Sarah Colonna [49:19]: "Never saw it coming... both James and Tim were both bad guys."

Jon appreciates how re-reading the book unveiled hidden details and connections he hadn't noticed initially, enhancing his understanding and enjoyment of the story.

Jon Ryan [49:22]: "I liked it even better the second time... a lot of the holes were kind of answered the second time."

Themes and Psychological Insights

The discussion delves into the psychological aspects portrayed in the book, particularly the nature versus nurture debate. Jon and Sarah explore Sam's character, questioning whether his actions were inherent or shaped by his upbringing and environment.

Jon Ryan [20:09]: "I don't think you're born evil... it's nurture, not nature."

Sarah Colonna [21:03]: "Sometimes people have given birth to say... like a psycho serial killer... they probably set their fault."

They also touch upon the portrayal of grief and its effects on relationships, emphasizing how characters cope differently with loss and trauma.

Unresolved Elements and Reader Satisfaction

While praising the book's suspense, both hosts express frustration over certain unresolved plot points, such as the mystery surrounding the pink fur coat and Sam's erratic behavior. They highlight how these gaps left lingering questions, though they acknowledge that some ambiguity is intrinsic to the thriller genre.

Sarah Colonna [27:17]: "Never got closure on the pink fur coat... didn't get closure on that."

Sarah Colonna [51:15]: "She thought Sadie did it... that felt like a small hole for me."

Ratings and Final Thoughts

As the discussion wraps up, Jon and Sarah provide their ratings for "The New Wife," reflecting their overall appreciation and areas of contention.

• Jon Ryan: 10 out of 12 Beers
  "If there's a 12 pack, there'll be two missing. It's 10 out of 12."

• Sarah Colonna: 4 out of 5 Cocktails
  "I just want to know what happened to the pink fur coat... giving it four out of five cocktails."

Both hosts conclude that despite minor frustrations, the novel's engaging plot and character dynamics make it a worthwhile read.

Conclusion

"The New Wife" by Sue Watson offers a compelling blend of suspense, intricate character relationships, and unexpected plot twists. Through their lively and honest discussion, Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna provide valuable insights into the novel's strengths and shortcomings, making this episode a must-listen for fans of psychological thrillers.

---

Listener Engagement:
Join Jon and Sarah on Patreon for exclusive bonus content, including video recordings and special segments. Share your thoughts on "The New Wife" in the Book List Spinners Facebook group and stay updated on future book discussions.

Transcript

[Sarah Colonna]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[John Ryan]

And I'm John Ryan.

[Sarah Colonna]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[John Ryan]

The Book Lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. John, great to see you.

[John Ryan]

It's good to see you too. We're not in the same house right now.

[Sarah Colonna]

We're not in the same house. John is in Phoenix and I am in Los Angeles. So we are truly just recording from. Well, not that far away, but further away than normal.

[John Ryan]

It felt long during the six hour drive today.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. How was your drive? I didn't ask you.

[John Ryan]

It actually wasn't that bad. It wasn't, you know, it's like the first three hours are always like rough because you're going all the way to Palm Desert. All through that area is always like a lot of congestion.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes, a lot of congestion. And then it opens up wide just like. Just like my legs. Anyway. Hi, guys. Welcome to the Book List. We are. This is the fourth week. This is the fourth week of the month. The fourth Monday of the month, probably. I love the in between weeks so much, but I do get excited about actually discussing the entire book because John and I have this thing where we won't even discuss the book together. Little things here and there. But I haven't asked him what he thinks about it other than that we both realized there was a lot of book left when they supposedly found the killer, so. And we were right. Long epilogue to.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that. But yeah, okay.

[Sarah Colonna]

If you're watching us on Patreon, it is. Well, that's where you get the video. So we have a patreon. It's only $5 a month. And you can watch the video, the podcast, you can obviously still just play it as normal as well if you don't want to watch the video. And then they. But there's also bonus content. So that's your other reason to join. It is on the 5th, the 15th and the 25th of every month, we have bonus content. The 5th and the 25th, it's a fun segment called John and Sarah Hit Record where we'll talk about some book stuff, but it's nothing you need to read. It's mostly just us talking, talking shit, talking smack, talking life stuff, whatever's going on. And on the 15th, there is a short book, short story, book review of every month. And we've done Frida McFadden twice. Her short stories We've done an Ellen Hildebrand short story. Those are all available. If you join now, you could still get them. And I don't know what the next next month says yet.

[John Ryan]

I don't know trying to think of that. But we have. We have time.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay. So we'll let you know here. Even if we just post it, we'll probably let you know on the 25th when we do our hit record. But if we also. We'll just post it with the short story as in case you want to read it. They're always a very quick read, so they don't interrupt your book list. Read. John's March book list is Liane Moriarty's what Alice Forgot, which I just started a couple days ago and I'm already super into. I'm really excited about that one. And I'll announce April after we start March so that people don't get confused.

[John Ryan]

Perfect.

[Sarah Colonna]

And then also John and I are going to be in Everett and Enumclaw, Washington, together. He's not doing standup, but he goes with me and he does the meet and greet. So that's March 14th and 15th, and I'm going to be in Montana with John as well. And Mary Radzinski, if you guys came here from Are you my podcast. She's going to be featuring for me in Montana in Missoula and Bozeman on April 4th and 5th.

[John Ryan]

And for the rumpers, Mark is also going to be there the whole dance that the whole band is back together.

[Sarah Colonna]

You get the whole rumper bands. If you're an. Are you my podcaster. You know all of us, so. And if you're not, you'll get to know all of us. And there's that bonus, too. Okay, John, ready? Oh, also just John, are you excited because Canada just won the hockey game.

[John Ryan]

Just won. If you're listening to this right now, Canada just won about five minutes ago.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, they're not listening right after because.

[John Ryan]

No, I'm saying if you're listening. It just happened right now. I'm saying.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. Yes.

[John Ryan]

In real time. It just happened for us right now that Canada won't.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. And John's very excited. As you know, he's Canadian and I watched the game even though you're not here. I watched the whole hockey game. And I mean, I'm a sports girl, but I don't totally follow hockey. And that was a really good game. So congratulations. Yeah, both. Both played very well. This isn't a sports podcast. This is a book list.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

The New Wife by Sue Watson.

[John Ryan]

Yes.

[Sarah Colonna]

Just tell me your overall thoughts to start.

[John Ryan]

Overall thoughts? I liked it a lot, as you said. At one point, the person that I thought did it, I thought James did it. The whole time. I'm like, james did it. James did it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Wait, you thought that the whole time?

[John Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, the whole time. Wait, why? I just. I just was like, everyone else was too obvious.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Or too far fetched. Too far fetched or too obvious? So I have to be James the whole time. And then as I said, there's like 30% of the book left when he gets arrested.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, right.

[John Ryan]

He gets arrested. And I'm like, there's too much book left. He couldn't have done it now. Now you got to go back to the drawing board. Someone else did it. It was a lot of. A lot of good ups and downs. I'll talk about it later. But I did not like the ending at all.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, you didn't like. You didn't like the ending ending or you didn't like the epilogue ending?

[John Ryan]

I didn't like the epilogue ending.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, it was a little much.

[John Ryan]

I thought it was later on, but I didn't like it.

[Sarah Colonna]

What does it matter? We don't have to really go in any specific order. But I just. It's funny that you say that, because I never suspected James and I really liked the book because I liked that there were so many turns. I thought if I. If I'm totally honest and this is not a bash on the author by any means, it was just like. I thought there was a little bit like, we get it. They've been friends for a long time. We got it. You're the single mom. Like, I kind of felt that those moments were a little bit just over. Not overwritten. I don't want to say overwritten, because everything she wrote, I enjoyed reading, but there was a little bit of like, okay, I know, I know. We get it. You guys have been friends for a long time. They've always been good to you. You're the third wheel in a way, but he takes care of Sam. I felt like maybe that was. But. But then when I got to the end, so that was my initial feeling. But then when I get to the end, I thought, oh, I was. I. This was. This was made to distract me from the fact that it was all going to be bullshit, sort of in the end.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

This was not a good. A happy couple. Her perception of reality was totally gone of what their marriage was and of who Tim was. So I think she actually turned out to do a really good job by distracting me with that. Does that make sense?

[John Ryan]

Yeah, it does. But when I remember, like, during the book when you told me that you thought they were, like, overdoing. Like, we were family. We were like, the. What do they have, like, a nickname for the Jack? Yeah, the Jackmores. And I thought Georgie, it was just like, she was so, like, in shock and so stunned, and she, like, back and forth in her head, like, so many times. Like, you guys are like, we're still best friends, right? Like, you still believe my son. Like, your daughter's dead. That's awful. But it's not my son, right? It's almost like we're friends. Like, I felt like it was almost like her. Like, I cry out, like. Like, you guys were still friends. And, like, he obviously didn't do it. And then it go back and they kind of be like, well, maybe he did. Like, no, we're still. You know what I mean? Like, it was like, almost like her just being, like, numb and just being like, no, like this. You guys are creating something's not real and we're still friends. Like, that's how I took it.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, it. No, because. And you're right. And that's why I'm saying, like, my initial reaction, I feel, was wrong and. But in a. In a good way. And that's why I like books. Like, that's why I like twists and things that I don't see coming. Because although I knew it was gonna be a problem in their relationship because people were accusing Sam, I definitely never thought Sam did it because that felt too obvious, certainly. But, yeah, the stuff of. Of. Of her kind of becoming desperate and reliving their past because she couldn't start. All of a sudden, they were acting weird on the phone with her, and she felt like he was whispering when she was on the phone, when he was on the phone, when Tim was whispering on the phone because he didn't want Helen to know that he believed Sam was innocent. Because Helen didn't believe it. And she's just like, you guys, we're. We've been family. So I. Exactly what you said. I'm just repeating it, but. So I actually feel like Sue Watson did a really good job of almost getting you slightly annoyed with Georgie to where you're like, girl, we get it. You guys are friends. And then you're like, oh, you're just. You're just trying to keep what you've known all your life together. And then it blew up, too.

[John Ryan]

And that friendship group is such an interesting dynamic. The way she wrote it, because, like, a single mom with a son who. They've just been together their whole lives, and then they're best friends, like the.

[Sarah Colonna]

I thought you were going to start singing the Reba introduction.

[John Ryan]

And then.

[Sarah Colonna]

Single mom.

[John Ryan]

I don't know.

[Sarah Colonna]

Anyway, go ahead. Sorry, Tim.

[John Ryan]

And him and Helen are best friends with Georgie, and they're like. Almost like he calls her his second wife. And the kids have been best friends forever. And then they get married, and then it's like. It's such, like, an impossible. I tried to put myself in everyone's shoes the whole time. Just been like, we've been best friends forever. How can you be accusing my son of doing this? And they are like, well, someone had to do it, especially Sam. You know, it was like. It's so, like, an interesting dynamic. That would be, like, just impossible. It's like you. But the whole time. They can never recover from this as a friendship.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, as it turns out. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what. One thing about reading this book that I realized is I'd be a terrible mom. And it's a good thing I'm not a mom, because. Because they lived in the middle of nowhere. She fell down the stairs. Nobody else was around. And I would have been like, sorry, my son did it. Arrest him. He definitely did it. I never.

[John Ryan]

The minute. Yes.

[Sarah Colonna]

The minute he said he didn't, I'd have been like, yes, you did.

[John Ryan]

We. We don't have that quality. But I believe that, like, when your kid's, like, in trouble or in, like, you. Like a serious trouble and they need you, you believe them.

[Sarah Colonna]

That's true.

[John Ryan]

When.

[Sarah Colonna]

Ralphie. You know, when someone. When one of the cats peed in the house the other day, I believed all three of them when they looked at me like they didn't do it.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I was. Ralphie.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, I just. To that point, I was joking, of course, that I would. I would hope that I would believe my own flesh and blood. But the. The sort of reaching for someone random must have done it, because I guess that's why she had a prison nearby, so that we could try to think maybe there's this random.

[John Ryan]

Right?

[Sarah Colonna]

Because for everyone else, you're like, who else could have done it? I mean, they're in the middle of nowhere.

[John Ryan]

Right from the start. They really build up. They're like, oh, you're buying this house in the middle of nowhere with a marble staircase that looks very slippery.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, yeah.

[John Ryan]

Oh, and there's no one out here, and it's kind of freaky and you stay at work too long at night. What's his face? Sam? You know what I mean? It's like. And there's a prison right behind you. They keep building up to be like, there's other possibilities that could have happened.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And she really hits it home on that staircase. And if you haven't listened to the leading of episodes, we had a really fun episode discussing scary staircases. But that's what I think she did such a good job of, is setting so many. What are the red herrings? Is that what they call it when there's something out there that just know that there was a lot of different things floating in your head. I. I didn't think Sam ever did it from the book. I wondered about Sadie, but then I thought there was a moment because there was so much about them being good friends and the covering up and. And how everyone always thought it was Lauren covering every Sadie. And we find out the opposite, obviously, later. I didn't really see that coming.

[John Ryan]

No.

[Sarah Colonna]

But it felt too easy to be Sadie. But then I thought maybe there was because they talked about how they had the same hair color at one point and dress. And I started thinking maybe, maybe there's some sort of switched identity thing that happened and a single white female type thing. But none of that happened either.

[John Ryan]

Well, one of the most frustrating characters this book was Sam. He was very frustrating. They acted like he was just like, oblivious to everything. And you get so frustrated with him. And you're like, him and Sadie are like flirting together. It's like your wife died like last week. Just like put up. Put out a different face right now. Like, you shouldn't be acting this way. And even if you are, don't you have like, the wherewithal to be like, I shouldn't be acting like this in front of the parents of my dead fiat, dead wife.

[Sarah Colonna]

He was frustrating and he never really got any redemption because when he was. When they. When they did the. Like when they had had the barbecue at the beginning and everyone goes to the house and Sam gets irritated with Sadie or with Lauren by the fire pit and starts saying, I guess you want. It's not a good enough fire pit. You always want your parents to clean up your messes or whatever. He didn't know then. He didn't know until after she died about her. Them cleaning up her messes and that and the. And the. And the car accident and all of the things. So, yeah, I. So when you go back to that, you go, well, what was that about.

[John Ryan]

At that point? He still thinks that she had cold feet and that's why she's acting weird before and now she does. She even said to. He said to Lauren or said to his mom sorry to Georgie that she's. We're not like having a great marriage basically like three months in.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And he didn't even know. Yeah, he didn't even know about the fake cold feet conversation. He just knew that she was acting weird. Which we later find out is because she killed somebody. And then. So that. But. But. So I guess we would just assume he was being irritated with her because she. He felt like the marriage was off. But then. And then there was a moment where at that barbecue and it ended a chapter which. Which I know is. Was her teasing and. And trying to get us to think there was something going on with Sam and Sadie when there never was. But even in that chapter it ends with he came out of a room and then she followed right behind him or something and she. So I just felt like that was a little bit of a piece that never got resolution. Even the fact that he went by her place the night before the night Lauren died and a witness saw the car there. Well, we know why did he go by there? Right?

[John Ryan]

That.

[Sarah Colonna]

That only ever came out. I know they were friends, but that.

[John Ryan]

Part was that whole barbecue. Did set up a lot of stuff though because that's when she brings James to the barbecue. Right. And then they get all weird. Why everyone's being weird.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I think. I guess that was the second. There's two barbecues, right?

[John Ryan]

Was it two barbecues? Okay.

[Sarah Colonna]

I don't know. You're right. I think you're right. That's the same one.

[John Ryan]

Now you think back, you're like. Lauren's like, oh, my real dad is here.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right. And. And you're get. And you're so frustrated with Georgie during that. That part because she was asking. She said to Helen, why are you being weird? You guys don't seem excited that I brought James and everyone's. But there you kind of want Georgie sometimes to be like, why are you guys acting fucking weird? Don't tell me you're not acting weird. You're acting weird. Don't say you're not. You. You didn't even approach me when I walked in with James. I was all excited to bring a date. I thought you'd like it. Tim gave him my phone number. You're acting weird. Lauren's acting weird and Tim is even acting weird. So I wanted her to yell. Yell it out a little bit. But she Kind of just did that.

[John Ryan]

All right. But I think that that's not in her character or else she would have been like, stop fricking talking to me. Like, as well, stop talking to me. I know my son didn't do it. Screw, you're being crappy friends. I'm done. Later on, like, she just would have been like that and she was just still kind of like trying to suck up to them almost. She was like. Seemed like a bit of a pushover.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And then the book wouldn't have been the same book.

[John Ryan]

No. It would have been a short story book.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. But I just like. I just like to get. I like it when characters frustrate me like that and I want them to do something that if they did, it would change the whole book and it's not my place to do that because then the book wouldn't have been as good. So. I know that. But yeah. By the way, just speaking of Helen, on that note, when it comes to James, so we don't have to go in order of how it happened, right?

[John Ryan]

No.

[Sarah Colonna]

So when we find out that James is Lauren's father and how he couldn't have.

[John Ryan]

It was a bit of a soap opera moment when she's like, she couldn't have killed. He couldn't have killed her because that's her father.

[Sarah Colonna]

You're right. That's totally a. Totally A General Hospital moment. And I would. And that's probably why I eat this stuff up because I love General Hospital too. So, yeah, it was totally a. Helen was drunk, admitted to Georgie that that's. He. I know he didn't do it, he was her father, but. And then. And then Georgie, because she said a couple times, or she said once in the book, we woke up together and she said, second time he spent the night. So I'm to assume that Georgie and James are banging, correct?

[John Ryan]

Yes.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. So she's. She's like, oh, oh. My best friend had an affair with my new boyfriend. Oh. So I didn't know that, otherwise I wouldn't have gone out with them. And Helen goes, oh, whatever, it's been over for a long time. Which clearly it wasn't given the end of the book, but she. And she kind of downplayed. She goes, oh, she's kind of downplaying my minor role in this, my bringing James over, blah, blah, blah. And then later on when. When everything comes out and Tim goes to jail and Lauren and James are just. I mean, Helen and James are just together now because they've been in love all along. And Georgie's like, oh, I just felt right. It did feel like another pushover moment.

[John Ryan]

I wanted to be like, yeah, totally.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Helen's kind of a shitty friend, Georgie.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Blame your son for killing my daughter and now I'm just going to take your man.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. I felt like I wanted her to, I didn't want her to just think, yeah, no problem. Hope you guys are good. Clearly she wasn't gonna get back together with him herself, but. No, maybe. I don't know. It just seems like Helen kind of steamrolls everybody.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, she's, yeah, she's a little.

[Sarah Colonna]

She'S really been through it a lot of the book.

[John Ryan]

Georgie's like, oh, like, I, like she's all worried about Sam. Like, kind of like that's what keeps the thought, like maybe he did do it because the father that he didn't really knew was super abusive.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And she's like, oh, but she doesn't know that, like her son is like super abused or her son's dad is super abusive. And it really goes back to like the nurture based versus nature thing. And which I think it's nurture, not nature, that I don't think you're, I don't think you're born evil. Like, she's like, she's saying she's worried that Sam might be.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, really?

[John Ryan]

Yeah. No, I don't, I don't think, like, I don't think you can be born evil.

[Sarah Colonna]

I mean, I don't know. It's hard to know because I agree with you. Just because someone else you were born to, somebody bad, doesn't mean you're going to be bad by any means. But I also think it would people who have given birth to say, I don't know, in psych, like a psycho serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer or somebody like that, I mean, they probably, they set their fault.

[John Ryan]

Well, I think that some people may have, like, tendencies that they act, are like more apt to act on.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

You know, where other people are able to, if they do have something in suppress it. Yeah, I just, I just, I, I, I see what you're saying, how, like, there's no way Dahmer was born a good person. But it's, it's interesting now that I think about it. I mean, I took psychology in college and I didn't really pay much attention.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, I know you did take psychology in college and your dad was into psychology. And so I've this. And it's funny, it's like, it's like we're having A married conversation we've never had before. Because I've never. I just. Sometimes I think, of course, upbringing and opportunities and things you're. You're surrounded by and people, you're. So they can lead to things. I mean, if you're grow up and. And you. And you're not given as many opportunities or chances or people are, of course, that can influence the way. And it can also influence to a different way that other people aren't expecting. Who knows? But I'm talking about violence. When somebody can just be violent, it seems like, yeah, of course, sometimes you learn that by. By behavior around you, and then you go, oh, God. It's not. How could this person have a chance? They grew up watching violence. But then when you just hear of people like that go nuts and become serial killers, and their parents were like, totally cool and seemed normal, you just go, oh, what happened?

[John Ryan]

There's a lot about psychology with, like, how you're. How you're raised, like, as a baby, even.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, really?

[John Ryan]

How much attention you get as a baby and stuff like that. Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Do you think I got enough. Do you think I got enough attention as a baby?

[John Ryan]

You get enough attention now, babe.

[Sarah Colonna]

But do you think I got enough as a baby?

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I think I got the appropriate amount.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay. God, that was about to get weird. Guys needed to hear that. I think you got enough attention as baby, too. Just so you know.

[John Ryan]

Thanks, babe.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I can see why, though, she. The strike. I liked that they planted that seed. I like that Sue Watson planted that seed just to sort of make you think. Oh, I. Again, I didn't ever think it was going to be him, but in fact, I kind of wanted him to have a little bit more balls at some point.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Just. Yeah. I guess I just felt like that whole thing with him and Sadie, I never really got enough. And Lauren, like, the times that they were fighting and stuff, I never really quite figured out if those were just to throw me off or if that was a more significant part of the story.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. But no, you right. Sometimes you want Sam to kind of, like, be like, step up and be a little more. Because he just said so many annoying things that he just, like, so obligated. He's at the funeral at the after, not the party. What do you call it? I call it after party, funeral after party at the dead woman's house. And he's like, I think I'm gonna start jogging again. It's like, what are you talking? Like, you just shut up until tomorrow.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And I Think we're just supposed to know. Sometimes in grief people just are. Who knows? They're trying to plow through, they're trying to move on. But on that note, all of them, I mean, even when Georgie went to the house to wait for the couches to be delivered and they still don't know who did it and she still thinks it's an escaped prisoner from the nearby facility and she's just willy nilly go. I know she didn't really want to. And then she, okay, I'll go out there. So Sadie doesn't go. And then Sadie ended up there anyway. But I just thought, you guys really want to go back to this house bad and you still don't know who did it. I wouldn't want to go back there at all.

[John Ryan]

Well, the way they make it sound like it's so scary, like out in the middle of nowhere, like. Yeah. Why do you, why do you keep on going there alone? And then, and then when she's there waiting for the coaches alone, Sadie, instead of knocking on the front door like a normal human, she starts banging on the windows with like a hood on.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And then making fun of her for being freaked out by it.

[John Ryan]

They make Sadie and Sam sound like they're 13 year old annoying kids, you know, like doing dumb shit. And I think like Sadie, Sadie's really annoying too. Even though we find out that a lot of bad stuff happened to her and she's dealt with it, but she's still annoying all the way through. And I feel like everyone kind of like knows the city or went to high school with the Sadie and that. I think I was thinking of some of the girls under high school with that were like that and just like, you know, just always like almost like shock value things around adults, stuff like that, you know?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And I can't fucking stand people like that.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

So Sadie always, you know, rubbed you the wrong. Just annoyed me.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Rubbed you the wrong way a little bit.

[John Ryan]

Rubbed me the wrong way.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. She's fair. She. You feel bad for her later when it comes out. And even when she and Sam sit down and tell Georgie the whole story. Well, as much as they know, because they still don't know Tim did it, but they start telling her what they know. Even then Georgie, her opinion of Sadie is just so low that she goes, well, I mean, I guess Lauren was a little. I guess the Lauren was a little mean. Maybe that's possible, but you probably deserved it. That's basically her.

[John Ryan]

She couldn't wrap her mind around that.

[Sarah Colonna]

No.

[John Ryan]

But yeah, it was when Sam and Sadie sat down and told Georgie, like, everything. I mean, that's kind of like what you're talking about, right? Like a little bit. Like, at first he's like. Which is. So when you find out everything, it's so insulting. And she's like, oh, just tell me, are you pregnant?

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, I know.

[John Ryan]

You think what happened to her, like, so insulting to both of them.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. She's like, no, but what I was going to tell you was all these awful things happened to me and I've been covering and this family's been taking advantage of me and I've been taking advantage of them, but I've been covering and now I don't really know. And then I liked that tie in a lot during that. Of what happened with the mugs.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

The fact that she had actually just taken him because Tim wanted her to so she could get the DNA and frame James, basically.

[John Ryan]

James, yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

But she thought she was helping him nail James until.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

She got here. Do we ever. The one thing I don't. I. I don't remember ever having closure on as far as the. Because we got closure on the dress, having the lipstick. Yeah. It was Kate, we got the. And the frame and it was all because she got freaked out when she was trying on her dress and Laura came upstairs and then we got the mugs. But do we ever find out about the coat?

[John Ryan]

Oh, the coat that was in the house when Georgie went over there to wait for the coaches? It was. Yeah. Pink fur coat or whatever.

[Sarah Colonna]

Fur coat, yeah.

[John Ryan]

Why? We never found out why I was there.

[Sarah Colonna]

Did we know? Because she. Because it was gone. And then. And then Sadie said, well, because I gave that coat to Lauren, that's why. And she's like, but it was there the night Lauren died and that. And I. And you guys, listeners, correct me if I somehow missed it, but I even went back through when I kind of do my little review before we talk about it.

[John Ryan]

Was it just placed there in the book for Georgie to be more suspicious of Sadie?

[Sarah Colonna]

I guess. But it was. It was. I guess so. It was. They said. She said it was there and then she said it was there the night Lauren died and then it was gone when she went back. And so she said, who moved it? And then she said, well, that was Lauren's coat. I didn't take it. I gave it to her. Something like that. I'm not probably mixing it up a little bit, but I just never got closure on the pink fur coat, guys. So in case any of you Did. And I missed it somehow in my travels through the book and my re. Listen of the audiobook, which, by the way, I liked it just as much the second time when I re. Listened. Isn't that weird?

[John Ryan]

I like the audiobook. I love all the English accents.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. I. I will say this is one of the first audiobooks that kept me. I know a lot of our listeners are audiobook people, and John is a very big audio book person. I trend to. To. My mindset tends to travel when I'm listening to an audiobook, so I don't like them as much. I get I'm better at reading, but I. With this book, I stayed pretty tuned in, unless I missed a whole pink fur coat thing. But I. But I. Yeah, and I liked the. I liked the narrator a lot, and I liked how she flipped between the men. And it wasn't super aggressive. She was never like, oh, no, I'm Kim.

[John Ryan]

I know. It's so distracting. We've talked about before. It's so distracting when they do that, when they try to. Like I've said it before. Like when a woman tries to do, like a sexy man's voice or vice versa.

[Sarah Colonna]

It's like, that was 28 summers, I think, Right.

[John Ryan]

Hey, you want to get over here?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, but it's a tough job. And I. Any. But yeah, the. The narrator of this one did it. Did a great job, I thought. I really liked it. Side note, in case anyone.

[John Ryan]

Well, I also like. I like a lot of the English terms because they're similar to. Some of them are similar to the Canadian terms.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, yeah.

[John Ryan]

Mom. Mom. We actually. We usually spell mom. M O M in Canada, but we always say mom. We spell it either way, but mostly MLM. But we always say.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I was gonna say, I noticed that you write it out as mom, but you say. You guys say mom but in. But in English version and British, they say mom. What were your other terms that you enjoyed?

[John Ryan]

I can't remember. One of them is like, we'll say, like, I'll take that with a grain of salt. And they say, take it with a pinch of salt. Oh, well, you know, if you take something. No, I'll take that. I don't remember them saying hard done by. Hard done by is my favorite term that Americans don't use.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know, I know.

[John Ryan]

Canadians use it all the time. It is good Europeans.

[Sarah Colonna]

And once you know it, it's like you would say in this book that Helen was pretty hard done by, right?

[John Ryan]

Oh, Helen was so hard done by.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. She was an Interesting character. Because she was, like I said, kind of a crappy friend. Sort of.

[John Ryan]

Crappy wife.

[Sarah Colonna]

Crappy wife because she.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Was having an affair. And then. And then she's always the life of the party kind of thing. Oh, they were talking about at the wedding in the very beginning. They're talking about the wedding and how Helen's partying and Sam's like, oh, you think she was a teenager? This and that. But then she also had some sort of. A waiter did some kind of prank at the wedding.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

I was like, oh, my God, she sounds exhausting. This one you pulled some kind of. If my mom had some kind of prank at the wedding with a waiter, I would be like, what are we doing?

[John Ryan]

I was cringing during that part because I thought about, like, our wedding, how nice it was if, like, your mom planned a big prank for a waiter to come out and spill all over. I'd be like, I'd throw your mom and the waiter in the ocean.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, to be fair, it would have been my dad if anyone would have done that, but nobody. Yeah, that would have been your brother.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are gonna be the candidates for that.

[Sarah Colonna]

Now, tell me. I need more information on why you thought it was James the whole time. Cause I truly never. I honestly was like, what's this guy's role? And I guess that's why I should have figured it out. Kind of the same with Kate, which hers really came out to be.

[John Ryan]

I felt like he was a character that was always on the peripherals, and it's like he's at the wedding, but, like, why are you here? Oh, I used to teach these kids. And then it was like, oh, catch me. So you're kind of a teacher. And then he tries to hook back up with Georgie, and then all of a sudden, like, him and George get together, and then one night, he just comes out of Sadie. Like, she sees him coming out of Sadie's. Which also, now that we know what we know at the end, do you think something happened that night between Sadie and James?

[Sarah Colonna]

I don't think so. Because only. Because I think Sadie would have even said it if it had been. I think she knew she was truly just reeling him in with the pretense of. Or whatever, helping her out. But she needed to get his DNA so she could get herself in this money from Tim and. And the family. But. But at the same time, if you think about it, this guy's a dirt bag. Now, this.

[John Ryan]

This guy's really. When you look at this guy's overall Career in this book. So he starts off that he has an affair, or she has an affair. Helen has an affair on her husband Tim with this James guy and secretly has the baby, has Lauren. And then James still sticks around on the peripherals enough so that now he's her school teacher, like, later on in high school. And always, like, around her, knowing stuff. Probably trying to, like, be friends with Tim, too, a little bit. Like, he's cool.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. They would all go out to dinner, the four of them and his wife, and then.

[John Ryan]

And then he goes after his former lovers, his baby mama's best friend, even though they're still best friends. And he's the only one that obviously George doesn't know this. Then he sneaks his way in there, and then we find out he was screwing Sadie when she was 15.

[Sarah Colonna]

And that's his daughter's best friend.

[John Ryan]

Yes.

[Sarah Colonna]

And he knew it was his daughter. Yeah.

[John Ryan]

I mean, this guy, he. He screwed. Screwed Helen, he screwed Georgie, screwed Sadie, fucked Tim, and he fucked Sam.

[Sarah Colonna]

You're. It's so funny. You're right, because I didn't. I didn't even put his timeline together because it was. He knew since she was born, so he just said, okay. And then he goes on with his wife, who. And they were all become friends, and they go out to dinners and stuff. And then all this time in high school, when you find out at the very end that he really did do something inappropriate with Sadie. Really inappropriate, illegal with Sadie. Then you fight. You're like, oh, but she was Lauren's best friend at the time.

[John Ryan]

But we. We look at all the way through, he looks like the good guy. Like, oh, he has this. He has this kid, and he still. Even though he's not in the picture, he still sticks around to make sure she's okay. Then, oh, his poor wife dies. And he's been giving so much attention to these kids. Now he's like a widowed, widowed husband and is. He's taking care of these high school kids with all this. Meanwhile, he's fucking them and doing all this. Oh, and then. Oh, my God, now your husband's in prison. Now I'm going to come back and I'm going to be so nice to you guys. I'm going to be back. And then it just. The book is almost over. No one actually confronts him in the book. And he just. He skates through the whole book.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. And then the epilogue, we find out.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

All along. And so I think. I think when Sadie. So that is interesting, though, because for. For him to have gone over there under the pretense of helping her out with her classes or tests, whatever. Whatever it was that she got him over there to get the DNA. I can't remember the exact words, but she knows that he. That they had a past sexual relationship and that she broke that. She says he broke his heart. She broke his heart, or he broke her heart. And then. And now you're gonna have him over and you're gonna not think that he's gonna expect something to happen. So did he go over there thinking something could happen and then it didn't and he just leaves? Or was he not gonna mess with Sadie anymore? I don't know. Like, that's kind of the. That's sort of a weird. When you think about the moment of him going to the apartment and then, you know, the end of the story. It is weird now that you brought that up.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. And then it's just not funny. But. Because Sadie's like, to Georgia, Georgie, at the end, she's like, oh, like, is it hard seeing your friend with James? She's like, no, I'm happy with them. You know, it's okay. And she's like, oh, I was destroyed when he broke up with me. This is the last page. She's like, don't worry, it was a long time ago. That's worse. That's even worse.

[Sarah Colonna]

So much worse. And then.

[John Ryan]

Don't worry. I was only 15. It was so long ago.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. It's like, oh, no. And then. And then you're. And then you're glad. Georgie's like, I'm gonna. I gotta tell her. And then she says, I gotta. I got something to tell you. And then you think, how. How's Helen gonna take that? Because Helen hasn't been taking things great this whole.

[John Ryan]

No, she's. She's back on the bottle hard right now.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, I. Yeah. When she. It's funny because you see the setup of. Of. Oh, they have this perfect marriage and everyone was friends. I never expected it to be Tim.

[John Ryan]

No.

[Sarah Colonna]

Pushed her down the stairs. I. The. I only caught on to it being him once they started blaming Helen because when he came back in the house and he was act. I was like, oh, somehow he did it. And then I. And I. But I didn't know how. And then, of course, it was quote, unquote, accident because they got heated.

[John Ryan]

But he has like the greatest cover up too. Like a very respected high police. High ranking police officer. He kind of like had some input. Like he def. He took. Remember he took over the case of her hit and run. Yeah, he had a lot of, like. He came across as, like, the great guy the whole time. And, like, Jordan, even at one point, Georgie almost made it sound like she kind of had a thing for him for a bit, but she kind of, like, suppressed that because he's such a great guy. Now looking back, they are building him up to be too good of a guy now. I see it.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know, I know, I know. I know. When you look back, you see it. And also when you look back on that, you go, okay, first of all, once again, I'm back to Georgie. So she had a crush on Tim at one point she said it. She's like, oh, it was kind of awkward, but it went away. Of course. I had a moment of feeling that way about it. And then her next crush after that, that we know of, basically, is James, and both of them are Helen's lovers.

[John Ryan]

Yes. It's very. This is a very interesting book, in my opinion. Every character kind of stayed the same the entire book. Oh, Like, I was never, like, I was never, like, oh, well, Georgie, now you're excused for being, like, kind of a bitch. Well, no, like, you put that on yourself by cheating on your husband and having a child away from him. What did I say?

[Sarah Colonna]

Georgie.

[John Ryan]

Helen. Helen. And then, like, Georgie's a pushover right to the very end. Like, right to the very last scene, she's a pushover, giving, like, letting James go back to her friend.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, no, she says. She. She goes and tells her, I guess.

[John Ryan]

That'S the very last. I guess that's the very, very last. But I'm saying, like, right before that, she's like, oh, I'm okay with James going back with her, so.

[Sarah Colonna]

Going back with her. But then. Yes, you're saying that not. Not the part where she finds out what he did. Right. Yes, Agreed.

[John Ryan]

And then, like, Sam and Stadia are kind of, like, weird the whole time. Sounds like kind of, like, kind of always stupid. Like, not really, like, putting things together. And Sadie's kind of oblivious and kind of a bitch. Like, I feel like the character is the same the entire time.

[Sarah Colonna]

I see. I think. I think that Georgie, like you said, was always kind of on her, on her defense or sort of on her tippy toes or, oh, my God, am I losing everything? Now my son is huge, accused of murder, and now my best friends think he did it, and it was their daughter. And so. And there were times that she didn't push back, but then she would. Like, there was even one time this was more towards the End right before we find out what happened. But there was one point when she was talking with Helen and she said something about when you guys saw Lauren's body. And Helen says we didn't see her body, we couldn't face it. And then. And Georgie never says anything at that moment. But then later that's the aha moment for her.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

So I was wondering why she didn't put together at that moment. It just sometimes she would sort of think she was just like, hey, we're the Jackmores. Why can't we just get back to being the Jackmores?

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

And also my son didn't do it, but she was a dog with a bone when she started. You know, she wasn't going to let him get blamed. I've never seen anyone try to solve a crime other than me like this.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

But I also think that Helen, for me, I thought she changed a lot from the beginning as, as you expect, right. Because her character loses her daughter and, and you kind of expect. Not expect. But of course it's going to just be a hard on a marriage and of course it's going to drive this wedge between them and of course about all the things. So when you see that disconnect between her and Tim, I kind of. That that's what you expect. Oh, she's drinking and she's pissed. But then when it comes out later, all the other things behind it, like at one point when she's like Georgie, you don't know anything. And then she's like, she's like our marriage was like a dying dog for years and nobody would put it down and she swigging from a bottle in my mind at that point and just losing it. So I, first of all I related to her the most. But just as the, as the character who's like just the loose cannon at some point, probably like that's who I would want to play.

[John Ryan]

Interesting character though actually was Kate because for a moment I thought, oh, maybe it was because she was another one that was kind of like always in the peripherals, always on her phone. Georgia kind of always talked about how she was kind of like there and kind of like teenager and kind of annoying. And then in reality she was really gathering information like crazy. Even though she pretty much put James in prison. But she was like listening to a lot more than people thought.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, it was funny because there was a little bit of where I thought what's her, what's. What's her role in this book? Because there was a few times where she Just felt like the gratuitous sort of pouty teenage daughter, sister, sibling, whatever. And. And then she. When she comes up and she. Oh, she's heard the phone or got the phone number, and then it turned out to be James's phone number. And. And she really starts opening up to Georgie and then she tells her, I tried on the dress. So she kind of. That's not. So the epilogue, I think, but that she puts all that together. But yeah, she's kind of a. A strange floating character throughout the book that then ends up being this kind of silent witness to a lot of things. But she thought Sadie did it. She was ready to throw Sadie.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Under the bus for that.

[John Ryan]

And then remember when she, like, got that the first, like, five digits, that phone number that turned out being the same as James phone number. So, yeah, she was. She had a lot of info, but it was all wrong. She's really a man. It wasn't. Wasn't the best. You know. What do they call them? A gumshoe?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gumshoe Detective.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

I don't even know what that means, but I know that.

[John Ryan]

I just remember from Carmen Sandiego. Where in the world is Carmen? San Diego. Do you watch that?

[Sarah Colonna]

No.

[John Ryan]

Carmen Sandiego. Is that a Canadian thing?

[Sarah Colonna]

I think maybe. What is that?

[John Ryan]

It was a show about gum shoes, and they tried to find. Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? That can't be a Canadian thing. I'm looking at my phone now. Do you think I was Canadian?

[Sarah Colonna]

I don't know. But just you doing that brings all of us joy, I think. And was his name Carmen Sandiego?

[John Ryan]

Her name.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, I'm sorry. Because now it's. Oh, Carmen Sandiego. Animated movie series night debuted in 1985. The first.

[John Ryan]

Like a. Like a. Like a.

[Sarah Colonna]

Like a TV series. Animated action adventure television television series with educational elements based on the. Yes. And it doesn't. I don't know if it's. Says it was. I don't know, babe. I don't know. I'm confused by a lot of things because right now it was.

[John Ryan]

It was in 1991. It was a game show for four seasons.

[Sarah Colonna]

A game show?

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

And then it became a TV show.

[John Ryan]

I don't know. I guess. So this is.

[Sarah Colonna]

This. I'm not getting enough information from you right now. Well, she sneaks around the world from Carolina.

[John Ryan]

Are you sure you don't know this?

[Sarah Colonna]

Never heard of it in my life.

[John Ryan]

Good, right?

[Sarah Colonna]

It's a pretty catchy song, I have to admit. I have to admit, it's. Yeah. Geography based mystery video game released in 1985.

[John Ryan]

Well, Kate would have been great on that show.

[Sarah Colonna]

She.

[John Ryan]

Getting back to the book. Kate would have killed that show. She was born in the wrong generation.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, she would have, but I am. God, I'm so annoyed right now because I'm gonna have that song in my head for at least another two days. Can't wait. Download for the list spinners to tell us. I think it was turned into a TV show at some point. I'm reading all of these things, but we need to.

[John Ryan]

But was it. Was it Canadian?

[Sarah Colonna]

I didn't see that anywhere. You're just trying to take credit.

[John Ryan]

No, no, I'm. I'm wondering why you haven't heard of it before.

[Sarah Colonna]

Because I was 11 in 1985, so I was probably watching soap operas already.

[John Ryan]

Oh, my bad girl. God.

[Sarah Colonna]

Busy was probably drinking peach schnapps. No, not at 11. I waited till I was like 16.

[John Ryan]

In 1991. You weren't 11, babe.

[Sarah Colonna]

This is 1985.

[John Ryan]

Oh, well, the game show said 1991.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, we're getting conflicting information because it says 1985, a geography based mystery video game released in 1985. You play Paul, agent who tracks down Karma San Diego and her criminal organization.

[John Ryan]

And then the first episode of the. Of the game show was in 1991.

[Sarah Colonna]

September 30th, and then apparently became on Netflix in 2019. I mean, this.

[John Ryan]

Oh, I know we're doing next weekend.

[Sarah Colonna]

Not that, guys, sorry. We got a little off track there. But that's kind of the fun of this show, so. Okay, overall thoughts? I really liked the twist. I didn't see it coming. I oddly liked listening to it the second time. I'm normally not. I only do that for this. Just so you guys know, like, we'll go back and we both kind of listen or I go through my highlights on my Kindle usually. But for this one, I wanted to listen because I had finished it kind of early on and I wanted to really refresh my memory. And I. I don't know if it just means I have a weird attention span that there were some things I was like, oh, wait, what? I don't remember that. And that. But then I had already highlighted it. But I. There was a lot of little. Do I want to call them Easter eggs now, I guess Easter misleading Easter eggs or something that she planted all along to try to lead you in one direction. And I just never. I definitely never saw it coming. That it would basically both be James and Tim. That were both bad guys.

[John Ryan]

Yes.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Overall, the same for me is the second time, like, I read it the first time that I listened to it. And I think I said this about another book lately, but I liked it even better the second time. I feel like a lot of the holes that maybe I just, you know, didn't think of anything the first time reading through were kind of answered the second time, and I. I liked it. And I think someone said they want us to, like, rank the book. Not rank them, but give it like a whatever out of five.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, yeah. However many cocktails out of five.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I liked it. I was still bad. Like, I was still back in. Anything less than a five out of five.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know, but it is kind of fun. Well, no, but it's kind of fun. It's kind of fun. Someone has suggested in the booklet Spinners Group, by the way, if you're not there. It's called the Book list Spinners on Facebook. And we pin all the books we're reading at the. In the Features tab, so you can always look there if you forgot what we're reading. And it's just a fun group. We get suggestions and we just chat in there about books. But they said to rank them instead of stars. It's okay, because I do Goodreads. Now that someone has suggested that, by the way, we have a book list account of Goodreads, too. I do. I re. I rate. But, yeah, I tend to do four or five. But I don't. I also don't. I don't. I can't think of anything I've read where I was like, oh, that was a three or a two or. I would give this one. I would give this one four and a half cocktails. Only because I. Because I can't remember. Because. Because I want to know what happened to the. With the fur coat was ever a big deal, and maybe that's my fault. And also, I kind of was. Was only a little bit thrown off by. Why was Sam so angry around that fire pit at her? Was it just because of her behavior after the accident? And he didn't know about the accident? That felt like a small hole for me.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

That was never filled. But also then we found out Sam, like you said, just kind of blew everything off. So it could have just been he was in a bad mood that night, and then he just got over it. Because that's. Because that's Sam.

[John Ryan]

Well, I can hear Ralphie in the background, by the way.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, that's our cat Ralphie. He'd like to say hi.

[John Ryan]

He misses me.

[Sarah Colonna]

He's actually rubbing up against our bookshelf right now.

[John Ryan]

So my ranking system is going to be out of 12 beer, and I'm gonna get 10 out of 12 beer.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, I like that. Okay.

[John Ryan]

Yes. If there's a 12 pack, there'll be two missing. It's 10 out of 12.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, actually, I think that's. That's better because a 10 out of 12 is solid.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, it gives me more leeway.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. All right, 10 out of 12 beer. John Ryan gives a 10 out of 12 beer. I give it four out of five cocktails, preferably a vodka soda with a splash of cranberry ginger ale or whatever that. Fruit splash ginger ale, zero sugar. Delicious. And not an ad, just a thing. So what do you think, John? Do you have anything else left to say about the new wife?

[John Ryan]

No, I think we covered it all.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh. I do have one thing to say. I feel like the COVID doesn't match the book.

[John Ryan]

And if the problem. When I read everything from Kindle, I never see a cover of a book.

[Sarah Colonna]

So I order the book as well. Okay.

[John Ryan]

It's like two rings. The one has blood on it. Like two wedding rings. One has blood on it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And it says the new wife, but it says, you trust her. You shouldn't.

[John Ryan]

That's a little misleading, I guess.

[Sarah Colonna]

It does feel like. It doesn't feel like. That feels like to me one where like some new wife is coming in and she's blowing shit up and doing bad things. I mean, which I guess Lauren was. At the end of the day, she. She did something awful, ran from an accident. But it comes across more like she's some sort of deceptive. There's somebody. So that part confused me a little bit. Although. Oh, and on that point, she's been like this since she was not. She's been like this since she was in. Since he's an owner, right? Yeah, he's always. She's always been like this, throwing. Doing messed up things. And then the first time he met.

[John Ryan]

Her, she was throwing a fit when she was five years old and he calmed her down.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. And he put his hands over his ears, though, and said, stop making that noise. And I've never related to anybody more than. Than him in that moment because that's what I would do if somebody, if I was a child, was yelling around me. But no, she. At one point, Sadie says that Lauren was going to take responsibility for this accident before she died, and she was really going to try to make things Right. Because Sam had really changed her. And I'm like, no, Sam knew her her whole life and she was an asshole her whole life. Yeah, she'd been doing the graffiti and letting Sadie take the blame for things and. And had a drunk driving thing and let Sadie take the blame all her whole life. So, yeah, that's why I was kind of like, so maybe that's the trust her you shouldn't part. But it just felt the title doesn't match the book. I mean, the COVID doesn't match the book, which is like, not even a big deal.

[John Ryan]

But when you read the COVID you read that, that little saying on the front of the book, you almost think like, oh, she had it. She had it coming, you know, Like. Like, don't trust her because she has it coming to her.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, oh, I see.

[John Ryan]

But she doesn't. I mean, she's killed someone too.

[Sarah Colonna]

But no, I thought of, I guess just when I see that as the way I read books and the way the books that I read, when I see that kind of COVID I'm like, oh, we got a new wife in town. She's come. She's doing shit behind people's back. She's taking him for all his money. She's joining his. I don't know, she's going to his work and making friends with his friends and getting to his bank account. I don't know, just whatever I'm thinking, like, you trust her. You shouldn't to me, doesn't match the storyline of this book. I don't know why I'm stuck on that and trying to explain it to you or to the listeners because probably I'm the only one thinking about this. And that's fine. I'm still giving it four out of five cocktails because that has nothing to do with how much I liked the book.

[John Ryan]

Okay, well, 10 out of 12 beers.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay, thank you. I'm done with my rant on my cover. And if any of you listeners agree with me or try can decipher what I was trying to say, I would love to hear from you in the book list winners Facebook group. And join us on Patreon for all the bonus content, the video, as well as the bonus episodes, the 5th, 15th and 25th of every month. A lot of content there for only $5. And we love you and thanks for supporting us and listening. And the best way you can support us for free is to rate and review and subscribe. It really helps us. So thank you. Yes.

[John Ryan]

See you next week.

[Sarah Colonna]

Bye. Oh, yeah, and that's for Leanne Moriarty. What? Alice forgot March book. That'll be the first week of that book. Can't end this podcast. Sorry, I just can't do it. Just want to keep talking to you, John. Okay, Goodbye, everybody. The book list.

[John Ryan]

The book lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

The book list.

[John Ryan]

The book lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

The book lisp.