The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo Discussion

Summary

The Book Lisp: The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo Discussion

Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
Episode: The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo Discussion
Release Date: January 27, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Discussion

The episode kicks off with Jon Ryan expressing his nervousness about discussing "The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo," highlighting his deep appreciation for the book. Sarah Colonna reassures him, noting the pressure that comes with reviewing a beloved book, especially when it holds personal significance. They briefly touch on personal anecdotes, setting a relaxed and friendly tone for the discussion.

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2. Overview of "The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo"

Jon selected "The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo" by Taylor Jenkins Reid as January's book pick. The novel chronicles the life of Evelyn Hugo, a legendary Hollywood actress who reflects on her glamorous yet tumultuous life, marked by seven marriages. The story delves into themes of love, fame, sexuality, and legacy, offering a deep exploration of Evelyn's complex character.

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3. Key Plot Points and Twists

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the unexpected twists in the book. Both hosts were taken aback by the revelation that Monique, Evelyn's biographer, is actually her father. Jon shares, “It was a big twist” [06:37], emphasizing how it recontextualizes the entire narrative. They also discuss Evelyn's plan to die on her own terms, highlighting her desire for control over her legacy.

Sarah adds, “I think it's a sad story” [11:12], reflecting on Evelyn's struggles with maintaining her true self amidst the demands of Hollywood and societal expectations. The couple delves into the intricacies of Evelyn's relationships, particularly her genuine love for Celia, juxtaposed against her strategic marriages designed to protect her personal life and career.

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4. Character Analysis: Evelyn Hugo

Evelyn Hugo is portrayed as a multifaceted character whose actions oscillate between manipulation and vulnerability. Jon questions Evelyn’s morality, pondering, “I still question whether or not you like Evelyn Hugo or is she a good person?” [09:32]. They explore her ability to navigate the male-dominated film industry, often at the expense of her personal happiness.

Sarah counters by acknowledging Evelyn's relentless fight to protect those she cares about, stating, “I ended up still liking her no matter what because I felt like she fought so hard” [11:12]. They discuss her relationships, particularly with Celia, highlighting the sacrifices Evelyn makes to keep her love concealed, ultimately leading to her profound loneliness.

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5. Favorite Husbands and Their Impact

The hosts share their favorite husbands from Evelyn's seven marriages, noting that Rex stood out as a sincere and decent partner. Sarah mentions, “I think my favorite husband was probably Rex” [07:04], appreciating his authenticity compared to Evelyn’s other husbands, who often served more strategic purposes.

Jon reminisces about Harry Cameron, Evelyn's best friend and the love of her life, discussing their 15-year supportive marriage that provided Evelyn with emotional stability amidst her public life. He remarks, “Harry Cameron is everyone's favorite husband” [35:12], underscoring the depth of their bond and its significance in the narrative.

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6. Themes and Insights

The discussion delves into overarching themes such as the cost of fame, the pursuit of personal happiness versus public image, and the complexities of love and identity. Jon reflects on the paradox of Evelyn's fame leading to personal isolation, stating, “Everyone wants to live forever, but they don't realize the consequences of living forever” [30:12].

Sarah highlights the exploration of bisexuality and the challenges Evelyn faces in embracing her true self within the constraints of her time. They discuss the societal pressures and the double life Evelyn leads to protect her relationship with Celia, emphasizing the emotional toll it takes.

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7. Comparisons and Real-Life Parallels

The hosts draw parallels between Evelyn Hugo's experiences and real-life issues, such as LGBTQ+ representation and the struggles of maintaining authenticity in the public eye. Sarah references their own lives, relating Evelyn's need to hide her true identity to societal expectations they’ve encountered.

Jon mentions how the book reflects historical contexts, comparing Hollywood's past to present-day struggles with fame and personal identity. They also touch upon how Evelyn's strategic thinking mirrors real-world individuals who navigate complex social landscapes to achieve their goals.

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8. Conclusions and Final Thoughts

Both Jon and Sarah conclude that "The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo" offers a profound and layered narrative that transcends typical celebrity stories. They appreciate the book's ability to intertwine personal struggles with broader societal themes, making Evelyn Hugo a relatable yet enigmatic character.

Jon summarizes, “Overall, it was a good book... it gets more and more layers. It's pretty deep” [53:01], while Sarah echoes the sentiment, appreciating the emotional depth and character development. They express excitement for future discussions and upcoming book selections, inviting listeners to engage through their Patreon and social media platforms.

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Notable Quotes

• Jon Ryan [06:37]: “It was a big twist.”

• Sarah Colonna [11:12]: “I ended up still liking her no matter what because I felt like she fought so hard.”

• Jon Ryan [09:32]: “I still question whether or not you like Evelyn Hugo or is she a good person?”

• Sarah Colonna [07:04]: “I think my favorite husband was probably Rex.”

• Jon Ryan [35:12]: “Harry Cameron is everyone's favorite husband.”

• Jon Ryan [30:12]: “Everyone wants to live forever, but they don't realize the consequences of living forever.”

• Jon Ryan [53:01]: “Overall, it was a good book... it gets more and more layers. It's pretty deep.”

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Join the Conversation:
Listeners are encouraged to join the "Book Listeners" Facebook group, leave comments on Instagram, or engage via Patreon for bonus content. Upcoming discussions will explore "The Housemaid's Wedding" by Freda McFadden and "The New Wife" by Sue Watson, with detailed schedules provided for consistent engagement.

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Thank you for tuning into this episode of The Book Lisp. Stay tuned for more insightful discussions and book reviews next month!

Transcript

[Sarah Colonna]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[John Ryan]

And I'm John Ryan.

[Sarah Colonna]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[John Ryan]

The Book Lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. John, how you doing?

[John Ryan]

I'm good. I'm nervous for this because I feel like I have so much to say that I don't know if we get it all out.

[Sarah Colonna]

I want to make sure I get it all out. He's been. It's very cute. John's been nervous about doing this all day because he loved Evelyn Hugo so much. And it's. I think it's. When it's your book, you feel a little more pressure.

[John Ryan]

Yes.

[Sarah Colonna]

About. About a lot of pressure. Yeah. Don't. It's gonna be fun. We're gonna have a lot of fun. We have a lot to talk about. I do want to address right away for those that are watching this, because you can watch the full video on Patreon. I just realized I'm wearing the same sweater that I wore last time we recorded.

[John Ryan]

It's your warm sweater.

[Sarah Colonna]

It. Well, it's not that. It's not. I just put it on because it's not that thick, but it keeps me warm in the office because right now our heat's not working in the office. So many problems. And that my hair also looks a little crazy. I don't. I just washed it today, and when I first wash it, it gets.

[John Ryan]

You should have seen it when you woke up this morning.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. He. I woke up this morning and John was like, your hair looks bananas. And I just. I didn't even look. I just went right into the shower because I. That's. Because I didn't wash it for two days. It's a whole thing when you have curly hair. I don't have to explain it. Okay. But I sometimes will. Just wet it and. This isn't a hair podcast. I'm not getting into this. It looked crazy when I woke up, and it looks a little crazy now. That's that. I'm drinking some Twisted Roots hard cider from Julie that sent us. She's a listener. She sent us wines from her winery in Carmel, Twisted Roots, and they've been really good. I went with the cider today because John didn't feel like drinking. He's not. He's being a hero and not having any wine today. So I had to crack a cider.

[John Ryan]

A couple glasses later on.

[Sarah Colonna]

What are we going to watch tonight?

[John Ryan]

We're going to watch Traders. The new episode of Traders comes out tonight, I think. I don't know if it comes out at 9:00 or what, but we'll be watching that. Yeah, maybe another episode of Wags to Riches.

[Sarah Colonna]

You guys, we started watching this show called Wags to Riches, and it's about. What do you know? Wags, Wives and girlfriends of athletes. Hello. Safe to say, doesn't quite represent my experience as a Wagner, but it's real entertaining to watch.

[John Ryan]

They talked about some things that you talked about when you were Wag people that. Things that people don't realize that doesn't matter who you are. You have to pay for a suite on the road. You got to do all this stuff. Your team doesn't. You don't fly there with the team. They were talking about some of that stuff that you can relate to.

[Sarah Colonna]

Do you think Taylor Swift was watching it?

[John Ryan]

No, I don't.

[Sarah Colonna]

I'd like to believe that she does that. She's like, what's happening? Um, anyway, and I mentioned Patreon already, but. So we have a schedule now for Patreon. We kind of had to figure out what. What you guys want to hear over there, what works. It's only $5 a month. And. And now there's going to be a lot of content, so you can watch the full video. Like now that's already been a thing. And then we do bonus things called John and Sarah Hit Record, where we just like have a couple glasses of wine and then record a podcast that's not really about books, just kind of silly stuff. But books come up, of course, because we're always reading. And. And then we are reviewing short stories on there now, discussing short stories, but one, one a month, because we know that's a lot of reading. It's one a month. They'll always be pretty short. Last month we did the gift by Freda McFadden, which was really fun. And so that if you join, you can go back and listen to all of these. So now there's going to be a schedule on the 5th, the 15th, and the 25th of every month, because John likes the schedule and he's right, that's when you will get. So on the 5th, you'll get a John and Harris Sarah hit record. On the 15th you'll get your short story, and on the 25th you'll get another John and Sarah Hit record. The short story for February is It's another Frida McFadden one, but it's the Housemaid's Wedding because we know a lot of you have already read the Housemaid series, so. And also you don't, from what I understand. I've started reading it and it doesn't feel like you had have to have read any of those to enjoy just the short story.

[John Ryan]

This book fills in the gap between book number two and three, because I feel like it was like a 10 or 15 year gap between book two or three, and all of a sudden it just picked up and Millie and Enzo are married all of a sudden, and you didn't really have an explanation for it. Now this kind of is 90 pages of explaining that.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes, but it's kind of. It feels like a standalone so far too, because she talks much like the one with 28 summers. Because we did that one too, the sixth wedding. We did that one on Patreon as well. And much like that one, it was like she kind of tells you what's going on as you're reading it. So if you hadn't read the book, you would still enjoy the short story. So suggest any short stories to us that you would like to hear us do on Patreon and we'll, we'll keep a list and we'll always give you a lisp and we'll always give you that information so you can read ahead. And then February is the New Wife by Sue Watson. John isn't ready to announce March's book yet, but that's coming really soon.

[John Ryan]

I'm gonna announce it next week because I do know what it is. I'm gonna. I'm gonna hold off. Just so you know, the book, the next book we're reading is Sarah's book. And then we'll let you know early next week what the next book is for March. March.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay. Goodness gracious. I can't believe you already know and you didn't tell me. The secrets this man keeps. Okay, and join the book listeners. Let's get into it. Let's cut the shit already. The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo John's January pick, a very big hit with the listeners, with the world with me. I did say more than once that it took me a minute to get into it, but then I really did. And I think it's a great book. I did not expect the twist. I did not expect Monique to be. I didn't expect it to be her father that was in the car with Harry at all.

[John Ryan]

It was a big twist and it was, yeah, we can talk about a bit more later. But that was a huge twist. And it kind of makes like to the very start, you're like, why is she hiring this, like, lower level, maybe writer Turns out to be a really good writer. But at first she goes to this company and says, I want someone to write this article about me. And then they're like, okay, well, we obviously want to sound like a more senior writer. And then she says, no, I want Monique, like, more of a junior writer. Everyone's kind of like, why?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And you're guessing along the way what it could be. And then it turns out not only is it the twist of her father was the one in the car with Harry, but also that she wrote this right to die piece. And we know that Evelyn is planning to die peacefully on her own terms rather than suffer from her cancer. So that's the ending of it, obviously. And that's. But we don't have to go in any particular order here. John. I just wanted to say I didn't see the twist coming, and I like it.

[John Ryan]

I did not see it coming either. I think that we kind of have to jump all over. I don't want to go in order of husbands and stuff. I. I keep on reading. I'm just like, reading of like. Did you want to go in order.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, I just wanted. I was going to say, I think my favorite husband was probably Rex. Other than Rexy.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Just because he was, like a decent guy. He never.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. But that was also like a completely marriage. To promote both of them. Right. Basically to hype the movie they're in together.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. And.

[John Ryan]

And because they slept in separate rooms, they. They. She said, you can see other people. Just keep it discreet.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. But I think, unfortunately. So there's the one time when she and him are in the bedroom and he kind of approaches her and he's like, why don't we try this the one time.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

And. And she gets him out of there. I was getting nervous that he was gonna do something to her just because she. The way Don had treated her and then and there. And I was. So. I was getting a little nervous that. That that was going. And I was glad that it was not. And she even said later on about him. She's like, he left my room when I asked him to. And a lot of men wouldn't do that, you know, the people that she'd been around. So. So I. But then I just. I think what I liked about him was just that when he really did fall in love and he went to Evelyn and was like, look, yeah, I gotta. I'm actually in love now, and I gotta do this and they ended it friendly. And she was happy for him. And anyway, other than Harry, he was my favorite husband, I guess just cause the other ones were such D bags.

[John Ryan]

Well, yeah. Well, she marries ernie Diaz at 14. But even. It's so crazy. Cause like right from the start, everything she does is to like benefit her own career, benefit herself. Like, that's why for a very long time, even at the end, I still question whether or not you like Evelyn Hugo.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, that's a good question.

[John Ryan]

Or is she a good person? Because everything she does is just for like. Can you imagine at 14 years old, tricking a grown man into marrying you? That takes some skill. I mean, maybe not. I mean, especially back then, a lot of dirty old men, but it takes a lot of, like. I wouldn't have had that, like had that ability to trick someone into marrying me at 14 and making it act like I was 18 or whatever.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

Right from the hop, she's like. She's like a game player.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And it's just the same way she was with Ari. She had Ari's number right away. She knew exactly what to do to get him to gross, by the way. He was 45 and she was 17, I think. And he went down on her in his office and then she was under his. You know, she wanted these parts and she knew exactly what to. She always knew what to do to get what she wanted. And I think there was. It's hard to reconcile for sure if she's likable at times. I find her very likable. The. The death part with. With Monique's father's tough because you know that she's. She says it to Monique. She says, I don't have any regrets. Everything I did was. Was to benefit people that I cared about. It was for people that I cared about, even if it was hard. But that's a good. It's good to think about. I don't know. I did. I ended up still liking her no matter what because I felt like she fought so hard. And she's also talking about such a different time with her and Celia and Harry and John and all the things that they had to do to cover who they really were because they wouldn't have been accepted.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Yeah. That's like the heartbreaking part of it where it's like, I feel like she's really. She's only herself when she's with Harry, Celia and Connor. Anything else, she's trying to advance her career. Even when she first meets Celia, she's like, remember they went out for like burgers or something. And she's like, basically, I'm like, I'm using you right now. She's like, well, what? It's like, well, maybe I'm using you. She's like, oh, no, sweetie, I would know if you're using. If you're trying to use me type thing. She was just like, all constantly on constantly. And then she, like, slowly falls in love with her and then became like the real her. But it's. It's. Overall, it's kind of a sad story in a way. Like, she had to hide what her. The love of her life. Her pretty much her entire life. The only time she really got to spend time with her is when she had these other fake marriages to cover it up. It's. It's. I think it's a sad story.

[Sarah Colonna]

It is. And you. I think because towards the end or. Well, when Celia. When she and Celia break up the big breakup because she went and did the sex scene with Don.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Before she asked Celia. Which you still kind of it.

[John Ryan]

It.

[Sarah Colonna]

You get Celia's hurt and all of this. And yeah, she should have discussed it with her before, but I was glad later that Celia admitted she was being jealous and petty because it's like, yeah, I get what you're saying, but this is. It's still a sex scene in a movie. It's not real sex. And.

[John Ryan]

I know, but she was going from a place where it's like, okay, but like, I. I've. I've given you up for other men so many times. Even though I didn't really like, you were being with all these other guys to cover up that we're together. Like, I'm kind of sick of it and.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

You. You went a little too far getting back with your ex husband in a movie without talking to me first.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right. She did. But also, she. She asked her not to do it. Before Evelyn admitted that she did it, she said, I can't handle it if you do it. So I'm just saying that was a little bit. You're like, I get it, but also you're telling her not to do this. So I liked later when Celia called her and basically said I was being jealous and petty, and I saw the movie and I'm glad that you did it, even though it ruined their relationship for a certain amount of time. But that was also a moment then when Celia said, actually, even though it angered me how much you protected me, every time you did protect us, I was relieved. You know, she ever. I was secretly relieved, even if I was Angry because she knew what it would have been like to. To. To put that truth out into the world.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, that's so sad. I mean, I feel like we still have a long ways to go, but we're, like, such a better place than we were like, back here, like, in the 60s when, like, people wouldn't even, like, dream. Like, literally, they would have been like, my career would have been over if I would have came out.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

You know, so I think we've come a long ways since then.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. It's just a very. I like. The story feels real. In some ways.

[John Ryan]

It does.

[Sarah Colonna]

The stories of her. You could see this happen. You could see this. Being an actress in that time and having the. All these stories. And, of course, as we discussed in an earlier podcast, all of our. On this book this month, of the hot spots that they discussed you. I could picture it easily because I'm like, I worked at Formosa. She's saying she went to Formosa. Little tidbit about that. She. I forgot to mention this when we talked about that, but when she says she went to Formosa to get a job, she said that. The guy basically said, that's Booth one. That's Booth two. And the rest you can figure out.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

And I. That's totally how every. Not that a lot of places don't do that, but we. We did do that at Formosa all those years later, because.

[John Ryan]

Really?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. You know Mike Gould, my friend Mike Gould that you've met, that he used to be a regular at Formosa. He was called Mike. Mike 8, because he was always at table 8.

[John Ryan]

So even the other day, you weren't talking about Formosa, but you're talking about Maribel with your friends, and you're like, so and so, table. Whatever.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, yeah. P7. Yeah.

[John Ryan]

20 years later, 15 years later, still know what. What. What did you think? Very first, when she's like, I want to write a book about my life.

[Sarah Colonna]

What did I think?

[John Ryan]

Well, for me, I was like, I want to write a book about life, but I don't want to come out until I'm dead. So I'm like, well, that's like a. Kind of like a really. In a way, like, arrogance. Like, I want my. I want my. My whatever to live on forever through the. The words of this book that I am writing to you, my gift to the world as I die. That's how I took it to the start.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I could see that. Because if you write it while you're still alive, it's because, you know, People are interested. And I mean, you and I have discussed this before because I've written two books, and they are based on my life and experiences, but comedy and ways of just trying to make people laugh with these stories and with a couple serious ones sprinkled in the. In the second one. But I. I mean, I've talked to you about this. I remember thinking, well, why am I going to write a book? Who wants to read it? I'm not Carol burnett. I'm not 90 with this whole career to talk about, blah, blah, blah. And that's when my. And my book agent was like, well, you like to read, right? And I said, yes. And he said, and do you know the life of every person, you pick up their book? And. And I'm. Even though I read a lot of fiction, but still, his point was, if you like to read and you like to write, then you would. Why wouldn't you want to contribute a book to hopefully make people either laugh or think about things? So I think, in a way, I know what you're saying about Evelyn because she was also like, I'm going to leave the world with this book and this information. But I think, yes, once you later find out that she's doing it, probably to not only just speak all of her truth, but kind of give. Maybe help people in the future.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. I think at the end, I did switch my opinion on it because I think she says to Monique, like, basically, tell my story. I don't care if they know it's me or they even know who I am, because Evelyn was just a character I created for you guys.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Which is kind of cool because you can kind of see what I was saying before. Like, she acted kind of like a character in all these things, except for when she was with, like, her three or four people.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. She's a. She's a complicated lady.

[John Ryan]

She's a complicated lady. Okay. She also says, I have no regrets.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

I feel like that's complete bullshit. I feel the whole reason she had. The whole reason she hired Monique, the whole reason Monique is writing her entire book. Because why? Because she pulled her. Her dad into the driver's seat to try to save her friend when, well, her dad, Monique's dad died.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. And. Well, he was already dead, she said, but basically to protect Harry's image after he died.

[John Ryan]

Well. And then. But destroying her dad's image.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. No, I know. Because she. She does say. She says, I have no regrets, no matter how hard some of the decisions I made were. And she also says you know, she has no one left to protect because everyone she ever loved is dead. And that. That kind of indicates to me that she's also saying, and. And when I'm dead, I don't have to protect myself so I can come clean. And all this stuff, it's maybe a little bit of a. A cop out in some ways to make sure people get to hear everything, but not until after you're dead.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. But then I was kind of thinking the question, like, can you completely fuck up as anyone fucks up through their life and not regret it?

[Sarah Colonna]

I. I think she has. I think that. I think that her saying that and then other parts of the book contradict that because she even talks about when she and Celia are finally together and Celia has emphysema and she's dying. And she. She does. She regrets all the time they didn't get together.

[John Ryan]

There was like 15 years or something. They didn't. They weren't together because of their. Their fight when they had a great arrangement going for them.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And there's. I just feel like there's no way. You cannot regret that.

[Sarah Colonna]

I agree with you. I think, and I think that's part of the way she's written as this. As this complicated person, is that she's also someone who can be like, I don't have any regrets. And she's, She's. She's lying. Right. But she wants to appear strong at all times because she always has.

[John Ryan]

Okay. Another thing that I want to talk about related to that, about her pulling, you know, Harry out of the car or whatever, that she had a driver with her, that they had just picked her up. They're going to the airport, right. And she's like, go home. After they, she see the driver sees all this, he's like, go home and think of like, what, you want to shut up forever type thing.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And then he calls her the next day after she watched her best friend die or things. He's like. He's basically like, make me famous.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

At that point, she's just like, fudge Hollywood. This is like, she helps him. She gets him famous and admits later on that he was actually a good actor and he probably would have done it on his own.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

At that point, she just like, screw Hollywood. The fame is so disgusting at this point.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. She said basically this guy didn't even blink an eye over what he did the night before. Which, you know, is of course, her being a little bit hypocritical because she was the lead chart, the one charging the Whole idea here. The leader, you should, I should say. But yeah, of course, when he does that, there's a few things about that part, but we, I guess we can kind of get to that a little bit at the end because, like, there's a little bit about the, the crash that's kind of confusing. Or I can just say now, I guess. Doesn't matter.

[John Ryan]

Talk about it. Go ahead.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, not confusing. I guess it's. We're just supposed to assume that everyone shot up for her or she paid because the.

[John Ryan]

It.

[Sarah Colonna]

She talks about how there's a slash below his neck where the seat belt cut his throat. Right. And I think that's what he ended up dying of because it cut an artery. He's mangled, he's all these things. And she said people saw her in a, in a, in a blood soaked suit and that's why she asked to go into a private room and, and talked her way into a private room before the paparazzi came. So I just don't. It was never addressed. And I went even back to. I'm like, did I miss this? But it was just never addressed how she got everyone involved to just say that he died of an aneurysm.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

[Sarah Colonna]

That's it? You got nothing?

[John Ryan]

No, I mean, I, I actually, I actually listened back to that part for the third time today and I, you know, I don't know.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, it's just kind of glossed over that. I guess we're supposed to just assume.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

I mean, she had the one staff member that asked her what happened or something. And she said, how much will it pay for you to leave me alone?

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

And then she gave him money and he left her alone. But still there's the doctor that told her he was dying. There's just all these people involved that I thought, where, where's the. How did that happen? Just a little of a leap. I wanted a little tiny two lines.

[John Ryan]

A little more, a little more detail into how it happened.

[Sarah Colonna]

I mean, she's the best PR person in the world. Right? She's her own pr. She's her own. She knew how to set up. I mean, she and Harry together, they knew how to manipulate and set up everything from, from going on dates, when she first signed with Sunset Studio and the people that she went out with and the marriages, the, you know, getting snapped with Don Adler so that they could, they could be the it couple. Like all those things.

[John Ryan]

That was, that was before tmz.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, that was just Some guy running around with a real camera had to.

[John Ryan]

Wait 48 hours for the pigeons to be developed, put them in an envelope, send them to cb, cbs, the whole thing.

[Sarah Colonna]

I gotta get these out in the paper. Evelyn was out with Don Adler. You guys, time's a ticking.

[John Ryan]

Okay? We got lots here.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay, go ahead.

[John Ryan]

I don't know where to go next, babe. There's just. There's so much.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, just go. Just talk. What do you want to talk about?

[John Ryan]

Well, I want to talk about Monique a little bit.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay.

[John Ryan]

Because she is about to get divorced. We find out right at the start, before anything goes on, and then. Do you think Evelyn changed her life in those two weeks that they were together?

[Sarah Colonna]

I do, because she. So there's this point when. When Evelyn says to her that she's not. She wasn't heartbroken when she and Don split up. I mean, I think it. I think she was at first when he started hitting her and when she felt, you know, and. And he was cheating on her, like she was. Because she did love Don. Like, that's the first person she loved, especially of all the people that she was being set up with and left and right. But she says, I wasn't heartbroken. I was just sad that our marriage failed. And when Monique's husband comes back to see her and tells her we made a mistake, we were being too rash, we can make this work. We can be long distance for a little bit, blah, blah, blah. She basically repeats that line in her head, and she's like, I don't. I was just trying to make this work. So it wasn't a failure. I'm not happy. It's been lackluster. You don't feel like my other half. I mean, kind of brutal. But I think that all of that. I don't know that she would have had any of that insight if she hadn't met Evelyn.

[John Ryan]

I think. Yeah. Because Monique says later on in the book that she would have never stood up to Franco without. Evelyn should never stood up to Franco. She would have never written a bestseller should another. Never understood the depth of her father's love, which. Because that letter that Evelyn gave her, she realized that my parents weren't madly in love the way I thought they were. In fact, they were just living almost like, as friends. But they made that work. They weren't, as they said, trying to rip each other's clothes off. So I think the mom probably, in a way, maybe knew that he was gay. Yeah, potentially.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. I wondered that. I wondered if she was indicating that she knew and because her, if you think about that letter, the way that her dad wrote that letter to Harry saying, this is why I can't go with you.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

And I, even though, you know, I, I. My family is everything, my daughter, it's like, in a way that her mom and her dad were living a kind of a similar life as Evelyn and Harry were.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

You know, in. In some ways a little bit the opposite, because they got to. They had their child ticket. No, A lot the same, actually. Just not in the limelight.

[John Ryan]

It's so hard because I was trying to put myself, like, in her shoes. Like, what would you think in that situation? Because obviously her initial reaction is to be, like, completely pissed. Like, you made me think of one way of my dad since I was seven years old. You made me think that he was drunk, out of nowhere, drove into whatever killed himself and the person he was with. You made me think this. Like. And when someone dies that way, I think there's always a bit of, like a gray cloud or top of it being like, oh, it's kind of like a negative. Obviously a negative. But I was like, you point a finger a little bit.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Like, why did you do this stupid thing and, and end your life so soon. Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Then she also has, like, all this kind of good come of it in a way that she realizes how much her dad loved her and how her dad didn't leave her mom for Harry because she just. He just wanted to be a good husband and a good father to her.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

So he kind of. He kind of gave up the same way that Evelyn gave up her life to be famous, but he gave it up to be like a good dad because he didn't. You know what I mean?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

It's kind of like parallels there a little bit as well.

[Sarah Colonna]

I think there were a lot of parallels. And I think that's probably why she ended up. I don't know that she forgave her, but when she met her mom and she knew that Evelyn was. She came to the realization that Evelyn was going to take her own life and, and that she had, you know, connected with her over her right to die piece on top of who her father was, there was this internal battle of, do I go and stop her? Do I. Is it my business? And I don't think if she hadn't reconciled some things and appreciated her in some ways, then she would have just been like, f her. She wouldn't have had as much struggle, I think. I don't know.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. It's interesting when you listen to that. Or I read it and then I want to listen to it back. About how when she got to the house, they're going to do the pictures. There's the last day of. Basically they were going to be together, and everyone was like, all done up, the whole thing. And like, near the end, when she's about to leave, she's like, you know, like, the. The maid is about to go on holidays. All this. And then she was just like. It kind of hit her like, oh, shit. Like, Evelyn's ending her life this weekend.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

You know, Evelyn, like. And in a way, it's like such a. Like an Evelyn thing to be like, I'm going to go out when I want to go out. Like, I know I have breast cancer right now. I'm not going to lay in a bed for however long or do whatever. I'm gonna go out on my own terms. And it's like, it's such a sad ending, but it's like such like a ending that it should have been, in my opinion.

[Sarah Colonna]

I agree. And also. And people will have mixed feelings about. About the right to die and things like that when you're. When you're sick. But in Evelyn's case, it's definitely the most Evelyn thing. And also, if you think about it, she. I mean, she said at the beginning of the book, everyone she loves is gone. I mean, she cares about this woman who's. Who is. Who she's sending on vacation. You know her. I guess she's her assistant, man. I mean, she lives with her, right? Yeah.

[John Ryan]

More of a living assistant type situation.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Or. Or works there constantly, but she doesn't have anyone either, so. I mean, she lost her daughter, which is obviously terrible, and 41. Yeah. So I think she's just. That's the other piece of it is you go, what am I going to do? Just lay in a bed by myself until. Yeah, right. But there was one.

[John Ryan]

So sad. Sorry, go ahead.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, go ahead.

[John Ryan]

I was gonna say it's so sad that, you know, everyone wants to live forever, but they don't realize the consequences of living forever. You know what I mean? Like, as she says, like, I outlived seven husbands. I outlived the love of my life, Celia. I outlived my daughter. I outlived my best friend. Like, the older you get, the more people you watch die.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

It's like, it literally at the end, like, it's kind of weird. It's kind of like. I don't know if it's like saying that, because I don't think fame necessarily did this to her, but it's almost like you had, like, the whole world that you were the most famous person. Then at the end of the day, though, you still died alone.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I know. Well, she. And she even says. She said something like, life doesn't. Life doesn't get easier just because he gets more glamorous. And her. Her story is full of that. It's full of bits and pieces and proof of that because she's suffered in so many ways. Even though she had the fame and she got everything she won and she got her Oscar, but you still know that she had this big hole in her life because she couldn't always be who she wanted to be. I mean, she wasn't really. I don't think he ever really got Evelyn happy until she was with Celia, married to her brother and doing the whole thing they could do so that they could. They could be together.

[John Ryan]

Christopher Wallace once said, mo money, mo problems, also known as the Notorious B.I.G. and I think that's a little bit of what Evelyn Hugo went through is mo money, mo problems.

[Sarah Colonna]

I think you're right, John, and thank you. Just. It's just wild to me that she just never came out and just said it that way in the book.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I know.

[Sarah Colonna]

The Taylor Jenkins Reid just wasn't like, you know what she did?

[John Ryan]

I have a way with words.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. She did bring up hate, which I thought was really funny. She said. I think she was talking about. Was she talking about Dawn? She was talking about one of them, but basically she says there's. There's. Oh, yeah, it was. She was talking about Don. Because I wrote the note. She said, you learned you can desire someone even when you don't like him. Especially. Even. Especially when you don't. And then she jokes that she goes. I think today they called that hate. Go ev. Go ev. I think one of my favorite parts, one of my favorite husband moments of hers was Mick.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Mick River.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Because he was the.

[John Ryan]

He was the singer, right? The lounge singer.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, he. Not. I don't think he was a lounge.

[John Ryan]

Singer, because I made up my mind.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, he was, like, playing at the Hollywood bowl maybe. But he was. He was a singer, and she just had him pegged. She knew exactly. She was like, I'm not gonna sleep with them. I'm gonna tell him we have to get married first. Because she needed. I think this was another time she needed the scent thrown off of her and Celia. Right.

[John Ryan]

Yep. Yeah. Someone caught them, like, trying to hold hands or something.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Yeah. They went to see his show. And they, and she said that these people basically looked at her with disgust because she, they, they caught kind of a moment between her and Celia. And she. Anyway, she has him pegged. She's like, I'm not going to sleep with him. I'm going to get him to go to Vegas. I'm going to make him want me. He's going to decide he wants to marry me. And then the next morning after, everyone gets. It's. Everyone gets their, their, their, their prints approved. And a couple mornings later, when they hit the paper, like John was saying, they took no instant gratification from tmz. But once it hits the, I loved the, the, you know, the little articles, the old clippings.

[John Ryan]

They were good. Yeah, I like that. Between the chapters. Yeah, I really like that.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. But anyway, and then she's like, and then I'm gonna be a terrible lay and I'm gonna be needy in the morning and I'm not gonna brush my teeth and he's gonna be completely disillusioned and he's gonna think he made a mistake. And I, I mean, and it happened to the T. Clearly this is fiction. So it got to happen the way she wanted it to. But I just really enjoyed that.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. She was like, it's our wedding night and I'm going to give this guy the worst lay he's ever had. It was, it was perfect.

[Sarah Colonna]

I tell you what, I did the opposite. I gave you. I gave it all I got just to make sure I could keep that punter running.

[John Ryan]

Wow, babe. Yeah. I mean, I was looking through.

[Sarah Colonna]

On top, on bottom, sideways.

[John Ryan]

God.

[Sarah Colonna]

Anyway, just kidding, guys. That's not what happened. We went to sleep.

[John Ryan]

It happened. What was I gonna say now? You distracted me, so obviously I can.

[Sarah Colonna]

See you turning pink.

[John Ryan]

I was reading like all these like book club questions. And they're all so lame, by the way. No wonder everyone listens to this show. The other questions are lame.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know sometimes the book club questions are like. Or they're just. Maybe I was thinking that too. And then I'm like, maybe they're just smarter than me. Yeah, maybe these questions are just more intelligent. But I think it's just because we just kind of like to discuss our feelings about it rather than the. But read me one that you were thinking.

[John Ryan]

No, I was just the one question, everyone. The first question, everything was, who was your favorite husband? Where I was like, obviously Harry Cameron is everyone's favorite husband. Right? Like they had like a 15 year marriage and it was, it was perfect. Because they're best friends. And then he was. He was basically dating Celia's husband, the football player. It was perfect. They had a perfect arrangement for 15 years.

[Sarah Colonna]

They did. And she even said. When she proposed it to him, she said, if I have to have another fake marriage, at least it can be with someone I actually love. Right. And.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

And because they did love each other, and it. There were the benefits with. With Celia and with her, and with her being able to be with him, being able to be with John, and the fact that they did go ahead and have sex because they wanted to. They both wanted to have a child and they could have a child. This was the best way for them to have a child. So they. Yeah, he's definitely the favorite. I was just saying I liked Rex. Second. Because he.

[John Ryan]

No, I know.

[Sarah Colonna]

Seem like a nice guy, but.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. John dies young, too.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know.

[John Ryan]

Former quarterback John. I mean, everyone dies in this book except for Evelyn. And Evelyn dies.

[Sarah Colonna]

God. Real uplifting.

[John Ryan]

Yes. So this is a good quote, because at the end, or near the end, Monique says, I hate Evelyn, but I like her very much. I wish she never existed, yet I can't help but admire her a great deal. That's kind of like wraps it all up, doesn't it?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Not that I'm trying to wrap this up, but I'm saying that quote just came to me. We're talking about that. Because it's like. It really sums up Evelyn Hugo.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, it does. And I think probably Celia felt that way about her at times. Right. Because there was like, that. That stretch that they. They didn't see each other, and then they both saw each other at the Oscars. And then they went into the bathroom, and then they. And then they kissed again. And they both lost the Oscar that night to Ruby. Yeah. And. And there's all these moments of, like, it's almost. Evelyn's almost going for it. She's. She knows that someone could walk in at any moment. There's. You know, and when she. Even when she did the movie with Don, and then she didn't tell her about the sex scene till after, it's like, yeah, she was being petty, I think, Celia. But that was just another example of, like, you're still not doing everything for me or to be with me. Like, you're still at that point again. I still feel that's like a disconnect because the movie is a completely different thing than real life. But I think it's because it was with Don and was with someone. She was intimate. I mean, basically, I think Celia even said at one point, you. You know, or. No, I think Evelyn said at one point, I. The way. The reason I protect you, I'm kind of all over the place here. But she's not the reason I have to protect you because, like, I'm. I could go. I could have a normal life. Like, I have to protect what we have here so that we can have our secret love. Because I could go have a normal life. I could just be with a man and have a baby, and I could fall in love with a man. Like, that won't be as easy for you because you aren't. You're. You're. You're a lesbian. Like, I'm bisexual. And that was an interesting conversation that she had with Monique, too.

[John Ryan]

So I wanted to bring that up, but they. Kind of delicate. It's hard as a. A straight white male, it. Did Evelyn have it easier than Celia being that she was bisexual and that she could go and date men and marry men and, like, live that part of her life? Even though she wanted to be with Celia, that's the person she really wanted to be with. But Celia, at that point, still couldn't come out, and so she was stuck faking it.

[Sarah Colonna]

I think that's interesting because I think. I guess she almost admits it that way when she says to Celia, I have to do all of this because if I. If we just walk away from each other, like I said, I can go find someone. And I think there is a point. There is a. I think there's an indication that it was easier for her in some ways because of that, because she's saying, I can. I can fall in. I was in love with Don. I can fall in love with a man. And just like when Monique says to her at the beginning, are you coming out as gay? And as a gay woman? And she's like, don't put me in that box. Just because I said I was in love with a woman doesn't mean, you know, I'm bisexual. And then Monique relates because she realizes that because she's biracial, she's been put in different boxes her whole life. But, yeah, I think. I think that's a good point. I think she. I think we're supposed to feel like she had it a little bit easier now. Was her life easy, and was it sad that she couldn't be with the woman that she fully loved and her. The person that her was her soulmate? Of course that was not easy, and it was hard. But in the time that we're looking At. And yes, it was easier because she was allowed. She could be caught with men. She could be out with men. She could do a. And Celia, she had John as her fake marriage and nobody was like, on to her. But she couldn't have been happy, right. With, like, she wouldn't have been in love with the man. She wouldn't have enjoyed sex with the man. Like, she wouldn't have had a physical relationship with the man. So she. I think that was kind of the way of saying Evelyn had it a little bit easier because she had the ability to have this other life and actually enjoy it, if that makes sense. Right. So I think it's a long answer.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. No, I think I agree with you. I mean, I, you know, as best I can.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. I mean, we don't know. It's all. It's fictional, but it's like that part, that piece of it is where you go. Yeah, I can see where she was even kind of admitting it could be easier for her in some ways.

[John Ryan]

What about her marriage? Her second last marriage to Max Gerard? This one reminded me. Remember when. Maybe you don't remember, you know what? Sex in the City. Like, I did when Carrie Bradshaw, she dates the Russian guy or wherever he's from. The English guy, the older guy. It's near. Like one of the. Near the end of the. The. The first go around.

[Sarah Colonna]

The most thing I know about Sex in the City is that we see Mr. Big over at Panzanella quite often.

[John Ryan]

He might go to Panzanella more than we do. I've seen him in there so many times.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

I've never talked to him, said hi.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, yeah, we see him in there. We don't know when he's not in there, but we know when he is. Okay. Yeah, go ahead.

[John Ryan]

Just that. That it. They had worked together years before, and then they had a marriage that, you know, he kind of almost talked her into this marriage, like, I love you, whatever. And then he turned out to be a real D bag. One thing he said, he's like, you can't be a lesbian. I think he actually used more derogatory word than lesbian. He used a slur. And he goes, you can go around with other guys as long as you're discreet, I don't care. Like, yeah, you can cheat on me. Just be discreet, but you're not going to be a. A lesbian. Yeah, I'm not married to a lesbian. But a worse word for that.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And he also said something to the. To the effect.

[John Ryan]

Not a worse word, a bad word. Lesbian's not a bad word. That's what. You know what I'm trying to say.

[Sarah Colonna]

I use the back word. Yes, we know what you meant, babe.

[John Ryan]

Thank you.

[Sarah Colonna]

Don't worry. I think, yeah, he said also he said something to the effect of infil. Infidelity. Doesn't matter. Just don't leave evidence. I think he was also basically admitting to her, like, I've. And that she even went, oh, and now I just realized Max has been banging around this time too. Yeah.

[John Ryan]

He kind of proves himself guilty there as well. And then. Then she marries another. It's similar to the Harry Cameron where she marries Celia's brother.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

And then they move to Spain. Right. That's kind of a nice part of it where it's like because her daughter Connor was getting some trouble, she got caught having a three way at 14.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. She only 14 when.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. She got caught with two other schoolmates in bed. I didn't even know what to do with myself at 14, let alone two other people.

[Sarah Colonna]

That's true. And good.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, she was.

[John Ryan]

Tabloids.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, it was in the tabloids and it was like. Right. It was reeling. It was right after Harry's death. So you pictured it.

[John Ryan]

I thought it was a nice part of the book. She's like, you're gonna move with me to Spain. You're gonna like, clean up your stuff. You're doing. You're gonna have dinner with me every night. You get to pick your own room. But it felt like they were kind of like a nice family for a little bit before. And then also when they're in Spain, that's where she got married for the eighth time to Celia. They're in bed together and they kind of do their own vows and they get married.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. They put hair ties on each other's hands.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Cheap skates.

[Sarah Colonna]

Hey, bitch, you could have at least got me a ring. I know you got the money.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, but it was a nice little bubble in the book where it's like, oh, they're really like living a real true. Or as close to a true life as they have with each other with their child.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, it is nice. And. And when. When they lose her, when Celia passes and then she goes. And she's at the funeral and then she goes. This is. This was the second time something like this was referenced. It was. I think it was. She goes up to Harry's grave. Grave. And just wails. Right. About her loss of Celia, about her loss of him, about. But mostly it's about Celia at that moment because that's the person that can comfort her the most about Celia. Because he knew how she felt about Celia.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

And the tabloid picks up basically, oh, Evelyn Hugo at ex husband's grave. And she's like, they always get it wrong, right? I wasn't. I was. Yeah, I was. I was grieving Celia in that moment. And then. And him and the life and all these things. But. But there was another moment I thought was interesting.

[John Ryan]

Back to that moment. She says about that moment. She says, it costs so much caring, I don't have the currency to spend on it. I thought that was a really good line.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

It was another point where she's like, fudge, you paps. Like this. Screw off. Like, it felt like the same moment when that guy told us he wanted to be famous. That was the repayment. And she was like, you guys are all gross. That's another moment where she's like, everyone's gross.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Yeah. And she's also like, I don't care anymore what they print about me, this and that. Because in her head, I guess maybe she thought maybe they'll put it together and realize how much I was grieving, but they don't. They're. But there was another moment she talks about. And I have the exact quote written down, but kind of doesn't matter. It was when her and Celia and John and Harry would be out all the time, Right. Because they were all good friends. They were out, and she's like, there was all these rumors that maybe we were swingers or blah, blah, blah. And she's like, isn't it amazing how that would have. Was just sort of juicy gossip to people and they wouldn't have cared at all, but they would have cared. It would have been. Seemed more nefarious somehow if they just found out that we were all gay or in love with. I was in love with Celia and he was in. And John and Harry were in love, blah, blah, blah. So I thought that was kind of an interesting thing. You're like, that's right. Like, people were like, ooh, this is so juicy. But if they knew the truth, they would have. I mean, this is. She's talking about a time when Celia thought they could go to jail. She wasn't sure. They thought they could take Connor away if people found out. I mean. Yeah, there was like so much uncertainty around the decisions for them to. To be honest.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Crazy times back then. Hopefully. It's gotten better. I think it's gotten better, but I'm not the person to speak of that. So what were your overall I mean, I think I kind of covered everything I wanted to cover. Babe, how about you?

[Sarah Colonna]

I mean, yeah, there's. I guess there's a few husbands we didn't really touch on, but that doesn't matter. I mean, we. We know a couple were quick couple were. But the. The ones that had the most influence on her and, and for the reasons they did it is. Oh, there was another thing, though. Her first husband. What was his name? Ernie.

[John Ryan]

Ernie Diaz.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And that made me think of another thing about the time and what I think if they do make this into a movie, I gotta say, I want it to be a series. I want like, each husband. I want it to be like a special series and each husband has Sarah.

[John Ryan]

I think if it's a movie, it's going to be three hours long and it's going to be annoying. And if they shorten it, they're going to have to skim over things so quickly that you won't really get the right feel of it. So. To be a miniseries.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes, I'd love it. Be like, call her.

[John Ryan]

Go ahead, continue.

[Sarah Colonna]

Call her. Go ahead. So. But just speaking of the time. So Ernie, like you said, she was 15. She. His dad. Her. Her dad signed off of it. She lied about the age, but thanks. D. Ernie knew and she had to. When she got the job at Formosa, she started making money and was doing okay. And then she asks him if she can spend her money on acting classes. And she's like, it made me so angry that I had to ask this guy how I could spend my own money. And then he's like, yeah, sure. I mean, maybe you'll get better and maybe you'll get yourself in a picture one of these days. And she's like, I'm gonna be a huge star in her head. She's like, you're an idiot. But. But it just sort of all puts you in the time frame of. Of those kinds of things. Like women still having to ask permission.

[John Ryan]

To spend their own money. Yeah, don't get me started.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, is it okay if I. If I buy a new Kindle? By the way, John, I feel like mine's not. Not as great as yours now that I got you a new one.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, just bring me the receipt.

[Sarah Colonna]

That's creepy. Yeah, I. Look, I think I. I have kind. I have the questions about. Oh, I know one thing that I wanted to ask you. Do you think that there's any world where Harry. I mean, it's not indicated at all. But not everything has to be indicated, right? They can Leave us. Leave us with some questions. Is there any world where Harry angrily ran like he did this accident on purpose Because. Because the guy told him he wasn't going to be with him. Because the letter. The letter was in Harry's pocket. Right?

[John Ryan]

Right. Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

So he'd read it.

[John Ryan]

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't even think of that.

[Sarah Colonna]

And then it's not. She says it wasn't his car, so I guess it must have been Monique's dad's car.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

James. Was that his name?

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay. And. And so you're like, well, why is he driving? And he already knows that basically he's broken up with them. So I'm like, I wonder if there's any world where we're supposed to think. Harry was like, I don't want to live anymore. I lost John, now I'm losing you, and I don't give a shit. But I don't think he would. I don't think he would want to.

[John Ryan]

Hurt the one stretch there is that they had just met. Really. Like he said he, like really. He met this guy on set, he really, really liked him, but it was like a really new thing.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, no, because I mean, the letter was like, I'm in love with you. I. I can't. But I can't give you what you need. And I need to stay with my wife because of my daughter. But no, I don't think he wasn't.

[John Ryan]

Like a three or four year relationship and he broke it off, I don't think. But it sounded like it was a short term thing that he fell really hard, really quick. I don't know if that would be something you'd kill yourself over.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right. And also now that I'm saying it out loud, I don't think he would do that to him. I don't think that he would take someone else. I think if he was gonna hurt himself, he would have.

[John Ryan]

But also I don't think himself to Evelyn and Connor too.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, and daughter. Right. Good point. See, I. Listen, this is why. No, I had to ask a question.

[John Ryan]

I think it's a really good argument. Yeah. Because it's, you know. Yeah. I think I. They say he's just drunk and then. I don't know.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, because he had talked to Evelyn that morning and she said that she smelled something on his breath. So I. I wasn't putting together that she was about to then find him wrapped around a tree by any means. I was shooketh by that. But. But yeah, I don't think so either. I think it was Just a tragic accident. That. Yeah, that.

[John Ryan]

Overall, I thought it was a good book, and that's why I picked it. But also, you know, I read it and then I listened to it, and then I listened to it again. Overachiever. But every time you, like, listen to it and think more, it's. It gets more and more layers. It's pretty deep.

[Sarah Colonna]

It is. Especially. I think. I think the other person that gets that you get that's pretty deep in the book is Don, because he's completely like this stereotypical, basically Hollywood playboy drunk. When she marries him, right. He immediately starts hitting her. He says things like, oh, she says one line about Don that is. So be wary of a man who thinks he has something to prove. Something like that. Um, yeah. Be wary of men with something to prove because he first gets so angry at her because she doesn't change her last name. And he's like, all these. All these people are saying, why are you still going by Hugo? Who? And she's like, who's saying that? He's like, everyone. She's. I've never heard anyone say that. And it's. His ego's bruised. He can't. He's always got to be on top when he doesn't start doing as well in the movies and whatnot. And then. And there's that interesting layer of Harry has to keep Don happy because Don makes the studio money. And he is like, I'm not working for your best interests, Evelyn, right now, because my boss needs me. Error. Ari, I guess, needs me to keep Don happy. So they have it. But. But Evelyn understands that. She's like, whatever, we're best friends. I get it. And that's why I was glad when he got released, when he was on his own and they could work together with all that bullshit away. Was happy for Harry and Evelyn then. But Don's layer of, like, become being that person. She catches him cheating. She basically goes to find Celia right away, and then that's the first time she kisses Celia. So he. Right. So in a way, he kind of took the shackles off her a little bit in some way of her sort of going like, why am I hiding who I am? If this douchebags up at a party with, you know, and Ruby has to come tell me that he's banging. Somebody catches him with his pants down. And then his evolution to being. Getting sober, they go have a. Have a Reuben at Canter's Deli, which, by the way, is delicious if you're ever in Los Angeles. And. And all of that, he Ends up being a good guy, right? He ends up gets his shit together, redeeming himself. And when she, you know, she does the movie with him and it helps his career and it helps her career. And then, even though it ruins her relationship with Celia. But then they. You could tell that they stayed in touch after all of that because then once this. She covers up Harry's death and calls the first person she calls. What are you looking at, John?

[John Ryan]

The cat on the counter just. Ralph is on the counter acting weird.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay. I just saw you making a face like, sorry, sorry, guys. I could see him making a face and I thought, oh, God, there must be a cat doing something. So anyway, long story, long winded rant short. When Nick says, the thing I need is for you to make me famous, basically that's after me helping you to shut up forever. She calls dawn and she says, I need him in your. You know. So I. I thought it was kind of a nice bow on their relationship that the other person she loved, truly, other than Harry and Celia, loved once, at least dawn actually ended up in a. In a sort of peaceful place with each other.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

[Sarah Colonna]

That's it.

[John Ryan]

A plus. I like that.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Guys, the book Listeners is the Facebook group where you can give all your thoughts. And if you're. And on our Instagram, you can leave comments that the book list. If you're on Patreon, you can leave comments there. Don't forget that that is in February. You will have consistent bonus content. The 5th, 15th and 25th. The 5th and the 25th will be John and Sarah Hit Records. These just fun podcasts that we do. And the 15th will always be a short story review. Next month it is the Housemaid's wedding by Frida McFadden. Again, I believe it's standalone. If you haven't read the Housemaid series and you can just enjoy us talking about it. And the February book is the New Wife by Sue Watson. I finished it. I am once again proud of my pick. I can't wait to talk about it because there's a lot of twists in it. So I'm excited to talk to you guys about that in February. And as always, our first three weeks of February will be things that maybe come with, like, subjects in the book. But there will be no spoilers until week four. So you have until week four to finish the New Wife by Sue Watson for February.

[John Ryan]

Absolutely. Looking this month.

[Sarah Colonna]

Anything else you like?

[John Ryan]

It was fun.

[Sarah Colonna]

It was a really fun month. I've really enjoyed the interaction and I enjoy hearing you guys talk about how you are back to reading again because of this. And I am, too. And I'm reading a lot more like now. I just finished the New Wife and then I already figured out April's book, but I can't say it because we need to wait till John announces his March book, which he will do next week. And I'll post it in all of our socials always. We have a running list featured pinned in the book listeners that if you ever forget what we're reading, you can go to that, too. That's it. See you guys next Monday. Thank you, John Ryan, for joining me in our home today to discuss your amazing pick. All right. Bye. Bye.

[John Ryan]

Bye.

[Sarah Colonna]

See you in a second. The book lisp.

[John Ryan]

The book lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

The book list.

[John Ryan]

The book lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

The book lisp.