“The Wedding People” Full Discussion

Summary

---

The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Episode: “The Wedding People” – Full Discussion

Date: September 22, 2025
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

---

Episode Overview

Sarah and Jon dive into a full discussion and review of "The Wedding People," unpacking its darkly comedic take on weddings, personal transformation, and the messiness of adult relationships. Their conversation is candid and full of humor, exploring the book’s nuanced characters, surprising plot turns, themes of friendship, self-discovery, and the delicate balance between selfishness and growth. Spoilers abound as they analyze favorite moments, character arcs, and the book’s handling of sensitive subjects.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Remarks & Structure

• [00:36] Sarah: Introduces the episode as their in-depth monthly book discussion, emphasizes spoilers, and teases the next episode featuring McKenna from Love Struck Seattle.
• [03:02] Jon: Asks where to start; Sarah urges an all-encompassing discussion led by Jon.

2. Book Context & Immediate Impressions

• [03:19] Jon explains the novel starts “kind of dark” with protagonist Phoebe’s intent to end her life following a brutal divorce.
• Both hosts express how the dark opening is surprisingly handled with humor and self-deprecation, making Phoebe’s journey feel endearing rather than bleak.

Quote:

“It’s very genius because when I started reading, I’m like, this is a really dark start. When you’re starting the book off with suicide and somehow you bring it back around.”
— Jon [03:59]

3. Phoebe’s Character & Dark Humor

• Phoebe’s plan for suicide involves her late cat’s painkillers—injecting an odd note of comic relief.
• Sarah and Jon both agree the author balances sensitive themes with a sense of hope and sarcastic wit.

Quote:

“For whatever reason I never—I kind of knew that Phoebe was going to be fine...I just really liked the way that that entire subject was handled.”
— Sarah [05:00]

4. The “Wedding People” and Character Dynamics

• Phoebe’s introduction to Lila and becoming part of the wedding “family” is identified as the catalyst for her transformation.
• The hot tub meeting with Gary (who turns out to be the groom) is discussed as a pivotal, oddly intimate moment.
• Jon highlights Phoebe as “the only person in the book that everyone can talk to,” making her a conduit for revealing other characters’ secrets.

Quote:

“Her character is the only person in the book that everyone can talk to because no one actually knows them...everyone can open up to her.”
— Jon [08:25]

5. Lila: Narcissist or Nuanced?

• Jon judges Lila as selfish and lacking redeeming qualities, but Sarah disagrees, highlighting subtle acts of care and the lack of “real friends” in Lila’s life.
• The “food in the teeth” motif (Lila having spinach in her teeth with no one telling her) emerges as a metaphor for true friendship.

Key Discussion:

• [11:16] Jon: “She has no redeeming qualities… but they bond instantly.”
• [13:06] Sarah: “I liked how in this book you see the arc of Phoebe oddly becoming that friend and truly caring for Lila…”

6. Themes: Friendship, Loyalty, and Honesty

• Sarah and Jon analyze whether Phoebe’s loyalty to Lila is narcissistic or selfless, especially as Phoebe develops feelings for Gary.
• They discuss the “fork in the road” moment where Phoebe chooses not to sabotage the wedding.

Quote:

“Now I’m one of the wedding people. I’m the bridesmaid now. I’m supposed to be loyal to Lila, even though I don’t want to be loyal to anyone anymore…”
— Sarah [14:18]

7. The Jim & Gary Dynamic and Supporting Cast

• The hosts enjoy the nuanced relationships, such as between Jim and Lila, pondering whether there’s a deeper connection.
• The group discusses the oddity of the wedding party and the lack of compatibility between Gary and Lila.

8. Trauma Bonds & Settling

• [20:00] Jon asserts that Gary and Lila’s relationship is a “trauma bond” stemming from loss, not real compatibility.
• They ponder why people settle and the psychology of relationships formed during intense periods.

Quote:

“It was a trauma bond...I’ve seen people trauma bond in real life, and it never works out.”
— Jon [20:41]

9. Symbolism, Growth, and Transformation

• Jon spots symbolism in Phoebe flipping the books’ spines at the hotel ("HGTV style") at the beginning and end of the week, marking her transition from passive to proactive.

Quote:

“She’s finally becoming that person that she wanted to become just during that week.”
— Jon [28:51]

• Sarah jokes about Jon getting “more and more passionate” as he makes his point [28:56].

10. The Ex-Husband Twist & Flashbacks

• The surprise return of Phoebe’s ex-husband is dissected, with Sarah forgiving Phoebe for sleeping with him as a decision for herself rather than out of obligation.
• Both praise the way flashbacks are woven into the narrative, adding emotional depth and context.

Quote:

“I thought she was just trying to get laid.”
— Sarah [32:10]

11. Broader Reflections: Do People Change in Relationships?

• Jon raises the adage: “Most women marry men hoping they’ll change; most men marry women hoping they won’t.”
• The hosts share personal anecdotes and broaden the discussion to real-life dynamics.

12. Minor Characters and Hotel Life as Symbolism

• The role of Pauline, the hotel clerk, is interpreted as a symbol for the fleeting importance of guests and weddings.
• The abrupt transition to the next wedding is seen as a meta-commentary on the ephemerality of life’s milestones.

13. Closing: Endings, Open Threads, and Ratings

• Phoebe takes a job at the mansion; Gary remains nearby — open-ended but satisfying.
• The fate of Jim and Lila is left ambiguous, as is Phoebe and Lila’s friendship.
• Both hosts rate the book highly, praising its wit and the memorable, dry banter.

Quotes:

“Five out of five martinis. Loved it.”
— Sarah [47:10]

“11 and a half out of 12 beers.”
— Jon [47:15]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Lila’s self-absorption:
  “You just told me not to ruin your wedding.” — Sarah [10:24]
• On friendship:
  “There’s friends that tell you you have something in your teeth, and there’s friends that don’t.” — Jon [13:06]
• On growth:
  “She’s finally becoming that person that she wanted to become just during that week.” — Jon [28:51]
• On banter:
  “Their banter is almost like between two people who don’t really care what they say to each other because they just met, or two people who’ve been friends for 40 years…” — Jon [43:31]

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Book Introduction & Spoiler Warning – [00:36]
• Phoebe’s Dark Beginning – [03:19]
• Humor in Darkness – [04:05]
• Phoebe & Wedding People – [06:27], [08:25]
• Lila’s Character Analysis – [11:16], [13:06]
• Phoebe’s Loyalty Decision – [14:18], [15:26]
• Jim, Gary & Lila Triangle – [17:22], [19:06], [20:00]
• Symbolic Book Moment – [28:51]
• Ex-Husband and Flashbacks – [30:28], [32:10], [34:14]
• Do People Change? – [36:06]
• Pauline the Hotel Clerk – [39:32], [40:16]
• Wedding as Facade – [41:59]
• Ending Reflections – [44:09]
• Final Ratings – [47:10]

---

Tone & Language

The episode is filled with irreverent humor, candid language, and sharp observations. Both hosts use sarcasm and self-deprecation, often speaking as if confiding in old friends. Their banter is engaging, vulnerable, and insightful—a blend of comedic and heartfelt commentary on relationships and personal growth.

---

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Dash Ryan.

[B]

Do you. Ryan Colonna or Kelowna Ryan? Is there a proper way to do it?

[A]

I think it's Colon Orion. I mean, nothing's. I'm legally your wife, but my name is still Sarah.

[B]

Yeah, you're legally my wife.

[A]

We are at the last. Well, no, the fourth Monday of September already, which is crazy. So this is the full book review of the wedding people. So if you are worried about spoilers, get the fuck out of here. Just kidding. Listen, anyway, no, we are. This is it. Every fourth Monday we do the full book review. We're very excited to do it. And we have five Mondays this month. So what do you do when you have a fifth Monday and you have to always have your book review on the fourth Monday? You think of something else to do. What are we doing this for? This fifth Monday we're talking to McKenna, the. The owner of Love Struck Seattle. She has a romance bookstore in Seattle. It's super cool. She started as a pop up, she turned it into a brick and mortar. They're opening the brick and mortar in October. So we get to talk to her and we think that's. It fits right in. Because Seattle Romance, John Ryan. I mean, could it be any better?

[B]

It's going to be fun.

[A]

Yeah. We're excited to talk to her and we do patreon. It's only $5 a month. You can support us way by joining. We do three exclusive Patreon podcasts every month. One of them is a short story. Last month we did the Lottery, which is a short story from 1948 and it was real effed up and we liked. We. So we have so much fun doing the short stories. We do other stuff and I think we're gonna maybe pivot to always doing. We did that as a video this month because John was out of town, so we didn't have. It doesn't matter. You don't need all the explanations. But we're thinking about maybe making all of our Patreon ones just what we did and just recording with our iPhone and doing a little video version for you so you can look at our faces. Why do you want to do that? I don't know.

[B]

They do.

[A]

I don't know. Come see me at the woodlands November 14th come see me in Spokane. John will be there, too. December 31st. That is New Year's Eve. Come see us at Tacoma Comedy Club, January 2nd and 3rd. There's more dates at way after that, too. A lot of them. Sarahcolona.com and join the book listeners to get all the business out of the way, I think. So can we start talking about this book? Because I've been dying.

[B]

Yeah. Where do you. Where do you want to jump in?

[A]

All of it. Just overall. Everything. Just. You lead. It's your book. It's your month.

[B]

We are reading.

[A]

Hold on. By the way, we're reading the good lie by A.R. tori for October. That was my pick. It's real different from this one.

[B]

Well, this one does. It starts off kind of dark because. Yeah, Phoebe gets divorced from her douchebag husband who cheated on her with Maya or Mia, depending on where you're from. Maya. And then we got a lot of noises going on in the background here.

[A]

You hear that? The iRobot vacuum is dumping its own. It's fine. I don't think they can.

[B]

It's fine. No. Okay.

[A]

And if they can, it was this first.

[B]

So she's going to the Cornwall Hotel, this beautiful hotel she does want to go to. No luggage, no nothing. She's going there to kill herself.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Very, very dark start.

[A]

Dark start for a beach.

[B]

It's very genius because when I started reading, I'm like, this is like a really dark start.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When you're starting the book off with suicide and somehow you bring it back around. So it's. I don't want to say it's funny by any means. Suicide's not funny, obviously. But she finds. She spins it into a very positive.

[A]

Well, to that point, I think Allison. I'll just go by her first name. Like we're friends.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The author is. It is. It's so. I find it to be so well written and I understand that everyone's going to have a different opinion when it comes to a dark subject like that, but I find it to be so well written, for me personally, that her way of dealing with it was. It was self deprecating and it was this. And it just. The writing style in general for me was very endearing. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So to me, her writing style felt that there was this self deprecating and all of these things. But for whatever reason, I never. I kind of knew that Phoebe was going to be fine. Does that make sense from the beginning? I didn't. Yeah. So I didn't. I think that It's a very dark subject, of course, but there was something about her attitude where I. I knew that she was going to be okay. I. I don't know why, but I just. I really liked the way that that entire subject was handled.

[B]

Yeah. And I think it's. They do put. She does put a little bit of humor on it where she's going to attempt to kill herself with her cat. Her. Her dead cat, Harry, with his painkillers.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so she's like. I was questioning herself. When she goes to do it. She's like, I don't know how, like a small cat. On how it kind of weighs out human to cat. And then she goes and eats them and she's like, oh, they're tuna flavored. It's kind of like a little funny part where it's like, oh, shit, like I'm doing this and then it's like tuna flavored. Just to remind you of my dead cat as well. And then obviously she kind of goes through with it. But then she. She hears something downstairs. I think Lila's mom giving a speech. She's like, okay, I gotta hear the end of this. So she goes and like pukes up the painkillers, right?

[A]

Her. I mean, her introduction to Lila, to the family, to the wedding people is really the catalyst. Of course, that's what the whole book's about. But of her finding herself, finding her new life, finding her voice, finding feeling, realizing that she was very stagnant in her marriage, realizing she was very unhappy in her marriage, realizing, I mean, that there was one point after she. Because the groom. Since we've all read this, we're not, you know, we can do it.

[B]

Gary.

[A]

Yes, Gary. Since Gary. Since Gary is the person that she meets in the hot tub. And then later she finds out who's the groom and didn't realize that at first. So she asked if he wanted to have sex and then he was like, well, I'm here with someone. And then later at 4am yeah, but she. There's a point in the book where much later, because she becomes attracted to Gary and Gary to her, and he and Lila don't end up getting married. We know all this from reading the book. But there's a point where she says when her husband comes back, the douchebag. The husband's such a loser, Matt. But when he comes back and she ends up, you know, she has sex with him. She. Of course she thought she missed him this and that, but she starts comparing things and there's a point where she says, I never. I was never myself, so so much as I was with Gary. I've never looked someone in the eye and said I wanted to die the way that I did with Gary. Like she met him and just said it because she was like, I don't have anything to lose. I'm here to off myself. Right. It was just. And so I thought that was a really interesting and oddly sweet take on how she views.

[B]

That was kind of the start of when, like, her week kind of turned and how like, she went from that night attempting suicide, going down to the hot tub at 4am meeting this Gary guy. Normally she'd be. Basically was like, this is the time I'd usually get out of the hot tub. And Gary even gets in. He's like, don't worry, I'm not going to talk to you. She goes, no, I actually would like you to talk to me. And this is where you can kind of see her starting to change right away, where she's like, oh, like, I can open up to this guy. And I think that's what is so brilliant about this book, is that her character is the only person in the book that everyone can talk to because no one actually knows them. So you get insights to every character through her because everyone can open up to her later. Like Marla opens up to her about cheating on her husband later. Phoebe or Lila obviously opens up to her right away. Jim opens up to her and Gary right away opens up to her. Or more so later.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In that hot tub. It's kind of like the first one where she's just like, like, fuck it, this is my new life. Like, you want to go have sex? Like, it's like. It's like the new. The new Phoebe is starting.

[A]

Yeah, that's a really good point. She definitely is the person everyone can open up to because, A, we see that she doesn't give any Fs anymore. Right. Even when she and Lila. Throughout the whole. Of course we see Lila as selfish. But then there's. She's well written because you like her, even though you know she's an asshole. But you see these moments where she's like, don't ruin my wedding. Don't. Yeah, right.

[B]

The first time she meets her in the elevator, she's basically like, oh, like, here's your welcome bag. Or whatever. And she's like, I'm actually not here for the wedding. She's like, what? Everyone's here for the wedding. What are you doing here?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And on the elevator, she's like, I'm actually here to kill myself. And she wasn't like. Or maybe that was in her. It doesn't matter.

[A]

But she was.

[B]

I'm here to kill myself. I'm only here one night. I'm here to kill myself. And she wasn't like, don't do it. Like Lila wasn't like, don't do it. You can't do this. She goes, don't do this at my wedding. Yeah, it was all about Lila. She's like, you cannot do this at my wedding. Matter of fact, I will pay for one more week in this hotel for you to kill yourself after my wedding.

[A]

In fact, that. And she brings that up right later. Phoebe brings that up to her way at the end of the book, which I love, where she says to her, she says, when I. When I told you I was. What I was doing, you didn't ask me why. You didn't try to talk me out of it. You just told me not to ruin your wedding.

[B]

But Gary talked to her about it later on. But I was just like, you're not doing this at my wedding. And then, matter of fact, she comes in the next morning, just barges into her room. No knock. Nope. There's one mosquito in here that's driving me crazy. She goes into her room and she goes, huh? I told you you wouldn't. I knew you wouldn't do it. Yeah, like, not like, thank God you're alive. She's like, ha. I knew you wouldn't do it. Well, what I like, Lila's character is, like, she has no redeeming qualities. She's a selfish. She comes across like a terrible person. Which is so interesting because Phoebe comes across such like a beautiful, amazing human being, but they bond instantly.

[A]

Okay, so I'm going to disagree with you.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

I'm going to disagree with you on Lila not being so. She does come across as selfish, narcissistic, all the things. And she. When you first think about her saying. Not asking her why she was suicidal, not asking her anything other than, don't ruin my wedding. But then she's constantly checking on her.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

She's constantly checking on her. And so I felt like our author was letting us know. This woman is doing her best in this situation. She's not great at caring about others, but here she is. She's constantly checking in. She's barging in her room. And is it partly because she's realizing through the book, we realize, you know, with a neck pillow and high high pony or whatever, they. I forget their nicknames, but she doesn't seem to have great friends. Right. We have that in the very beginning. We see that she walks around with food in her teeth through this whole thing, and nobody tells her, and she freaks out, and she's like, well, I have no good friends. Nobody. And yes, you're definitely your good friend. And then it comes full circle at the end when Phoebe tells her she has food in her teeth. And then I'm like, why can't this girl fucking get a mirror? Yeah.

[B]

I just felt like so much. The book is, whenever Lila went to Phoebe, she was looking for something for herself.

[A]

I agree, she was.

[B]

And so maybe it was her own way of checking in, like how you saw it. But. But I always felt like it was something for herself. And I think there is a combination of both of that. And I love that part because Phoebe goes, I guess she doesn't have the type. This is like a powerful thing. Phoebe says she doesn't have the type of friends that would tell her that something's in her teeth. That sums up the whole fricking world right there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's friends that tell you you have something in your teeth, and there's friends that don't. And one of them looks good to your face, and the other one will have you talk to you good behind your back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So the person that's like, hey, you don't smell good today. You might not want to brush your teeth, or you have food in your teeth, or, hey, your fly is open, or, hey, you shouldn't do that. That's the same person that if someone comes up to them and go, do you see that? So and so had food in her teeth. She's like, fuck you. Shut up. Who cares? We all have food in our teeth. That's the same friend that says that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas the friend that says won't say anything. Tom will go, did you see that? She had food in her teeth. It's like, yeah, isn't that disgusting? But she'll be so nice to her face. Two types of friends in this world.

[A]

Yes. And I think I liked how in this book you see the arc of Phoebe oddly becoming that friend and truly caring for Lila, even though she ends up having feelings for Gary. Because there's a couple moments, but especially the night before the wedding when she takes them to the barber and they run all those errands and. And there's an opportunity for her to tell him how she's feeling about him. And he starts the conversation because he's feeling the same way. And he basically leans into it. And she sees this fork in the road where she can either say to him, I feel the same way, or I can tell you that this is inappropriate. And she goes with inappropriate because she's trying to be the friend. Because she says, whatever. I'm. Now I'm one of the wedding people. I'm the bridesmaid now. I'm supposed to be loyal to Lila, even though I don't want to be loyal to anyone anymore. Even though I found myself again, it's still not right for me to. Is it narcissistic or is it selfless to do this? And she decides. Narcissistic, I think, and doesn't tell him.

[B]

It's a great. Because she has obviously, like, as the reader, we know that she really likes Gary now. And it's a frustrating part of the story because now you're like, oh, she can finally be like. Because Gary comes to her first. Like, I really. I actually like, really like you. I should go through this marriage. And she basically says, like, no, you have to go through this marriage.

[A]

I know. And we're all kind of.

[B]

It's a frustrating part because you're like, no, you want her to be like, yeah, let's run away together.

[A]

Yeah. Because you see so many signs of. Lila has settled. Lila's. He settled. They're both. I mean, he. He basically, you know, he lost his first wife tragically. And so then he's got his brother in law, who is his best friend and his best man who throws him a bachelor party. And that bachelor party is the same one he threw.

[B]

Yeah. That's so awkward.

[A]

I know. For him, when he married his sister. So he's just. This guy's just going through it. And you can really tell with his daughter. She likes to call herself Juice. Juice. So. And Lila's gonna be her stepmom. And it's just you. You can tell their personalities don't fit. I did like learning a little bit later on that originally Jim thought he was gonna go out with her, the brother in law.

[B]

And Jim took Gary to the art exhibit. Art museum, whatever they call the art store, whatever the fuck you call it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was trying to like hit on her basically, and he just kind of dropped the ball. And Gary did. And then Gary, the next. Whatever. A few days later, she finds out that her dying father, Gary, is actually the doctor.

[A]

Right. And we see it play out later where it seems we didn't. It didn't end with anything happening with them, but kind of feels like Jim and Lila should be Together. Right.

[B]

Do you think? I. I don't know. Because Lila kind of talked about him like he's an idiot. Like, she didn't really trust him with anything. Like, I almost. At the end, I almost felt like everything was leading to them getting together. And then at the end, I'm like, I don't think they're going to get together.

[A]

I was. I was curious to talk to you about this, but what I did think was, so when he. Jim gives the very awkward speech the night before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And cries.

[B]

Really focusing on his dead sister.

[A]

Yeah. And that upsets Lila. And then she's upset about the palate cleansers. And then she's upset because we got to get to the beach for the fireworks and blah, blah, blah. And then they. They skip the palate cleansers. And she focuses on that because she has to focus on something to be upset about because it's clearly she's upset about something else. But Jim calls her out on that, right? He says, oh, here we go. This is. You're going to be upset. And then Gary's going to do this and. And he knows her so well. And then she. When she kind of loses it on him and she says, caring about something is why you get shit done. I'm. I'm paraphrasing here, but, yeah, she has been watching him not follow through on things now for a while and she cares about him. So I thought that was. I. I thought that was leading us to see if maybe. And no, they didn't. It didn't go anywhere in the book from there, but neither did Gary and Phoebe. We just. I mean, it did, but it didn't. But we assume they end up together. But I thought it was interesting to see her kind of lose it on him and say, like, the reason. I'm so sorry I'm anal, but I get shit done and I follow my dreams. That's why you don't. And it's about that. That's her way of caring for him, is saying, I want you to do.

[B]

More and talk about, like, the seaplane that you've been talking about building for all these years, you've never had. You don't have one freaking part to it. And all you talk about is building the seaplane. But what was nice about that moment after she got upset with him? What does. What does Jim do the very next day? He goes and gets those 159 palate cleansers and steals them back for her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And obviously no one's gonna eat them. No one's gonna use them. But it was kind of like. Like showing that he. Like, he cared. And he wasn't, like, mad at her for yelling. He's like, look, I can follow through on something. Look, I got the palate cleanses back.

[A]

Yeah. His little way of caring for her, which I thought was sweet, so. Because they. It was funny how once they revealed more about them, I. I just went, oh, these two. Yeah, put these two together. Let's put Phoebe and Gary together, Lila and Jim. Let's have a sequel.

[B]

Yeah. Even at one point, not that age matters, but she's kind of talking about how, like, oh, I'm gonna have an older husband. Like, oh, how old is he? And it happened to be like, Gary and Phoebe are actually the same age. And I think Jim and Lila were actually the same age. If you switch, they'll be the perfect age for each other. Whatever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And also, so I think it's clear that Gary and Lila. Gary and Lila, they bonded. A trauma bonding. It was a trauma bond where, you know, he. They. That Gary was the doctor of Lila's dad, and they brought him in and they're like, I think we can give him a few. A little bit more time. Like, oh, my God, I can't believe that you were the guy in the art place the other day. And they kind of bond over that. And then it's like, oh, I'm gonna save your dad. And he doesn't. Dad ends up dying, but dad left this money for her for the wedding. $1 million. It's all like, I've seen it in real. I've seen people trauma bond in real life, and it never. It never works out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think there's probably a lot of psycho. There's probably a lot of psychology behind that about when, you know, when you're at your worst or you're at your lowest and you meet someone and it feels so amazing. And then you, like, you can never get that. That feeling back.

[A]

I'm sure. And yeah, that's. I think it almost feels like because there's a little bit of you that goes, well, why is he settling into this? Why is she settling into this? But I think it's probably too early for him.

[B]

He's not really in love with her. He even says he's never happy. He's. He just kind of goes through life just flat now since Wendy died. So it's kind of like, what. Why are you even doing this then?

[A]

But he does. He likes the energy that she brings to it. He likes that there seems to Be. There's life in her and she's. I mean, he. He. Clearly they care about each other, but, yeah, they're. They're settling into something that isn't there. And so that's why I think they both. I mean, I love that at the end, as you and I discussed earlier, right before we started recording that how she. She decides the car isn't right, so that's why she's not going to get married. And she's been looking for something the whole time to, to get her out of it. And I think it's funny because if she would have just listened to Phoebe, I think Phoebe almost gave her the out all the time. Phoebe?

[B]

Yeah, because.

[A]

Yeah, because she was so blunt. After deciding to live and, and, and feeling like she had a renewed lease on life, Phoebe's character is just. She. She gives no Fs. I mean, she just says whatever to everyone. She just. She. She doesn't hold anything back. I, I like that there's. There's such funny quips in this, in this book, like, where she says she says something about the bridesmaids and, and how they're all telling stories, and I think this is from Phoebe's perspective, but how they're all telling stories about the bride to kind of bond and get everyone laughing. And she says bridesmaids need stories to justify what they do. Like soldiers.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And. And I thought that was such a funny and very accurate take where people go, like, I have to. Yeah, no, they're so in love. Remember this one time, blah, blah, blah. But, yeah, but there's a lot of very dry humor. There's, There's. I think there's a one point when they discover that someone had sex with the tailpipe of the car that she was all excited about having, which they.

[B]

Come in, like, the car got like. The car's like, what. What are you talking about? Like, it got hit. Like, like, no, the car got like, what the car? Like, no, someone put their dick in the tailpipe in the car.

[A]

And Lila's like, wait. And she's. And she says, why would somebody do that to my wedding car? And then I think it was Jim that says, why would someone do that to any car? It's not. Oh.

[B]

Then they start debate, like, is it. Like, is the person turned on to a nicer car? Or like, would they have. Like, would they screw a ugly car?

[A]

Yeah. It's just funny because there's so many moments where things like that happen and Lila seems. She's only seeing her. Her part of it. Like you said, she's definitely selfish. I'm not. But she's only seeing her part of it. And then people are like, well, yeah, but I don't think he did it to your wedding car. I think he. I think he's weirdo that put his dick in a tailpipe. And. And he probably would. I don't think he went to go, like, let me get Lila's wedding car. So you see how she makes a lot of things about herself. And then Phoebe. Phoebe's character, in my mind of the book, is the person that's there to kind of bluntly pull her out of it, but also. Right. I mean, I think even towards the end, when she says she's debating, Phoebe's debating maybe telling her how she feels about Gary, and then she realizes that wouldn't be the right. And she says, can I be honest with you? And Lila goes, I'm good with honest. I'm done with honesty. I've had too much honesty. You're just my bridesmaid. Right. Like, just. Or you're my maid of honor. Right. And I almost wonder if she knows what she's about to tell her and she doesn't want her to.

[B]

Right. That's a good point. Yeah. That's why I love Phoebe's character so much, because she has no past with any of these people. There's no. There's no path where you're, like, making decisions because of something that happened before. And she's just, like, straight up blunt with everyone. And that's also because she came to the situation in kind of a dark way. She's just like, fuck it. I'm telling everyone what I think. And I'm. Now I'm kind of one of the wedding people, but I'm just telling everyone what I think.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny how she just gets sucked into being in this whole thing. I mean, people don't know she is. And then they. And then Lila's like, yeah, whatever. She's my maid of honor. I met her at the art store and she's like, oh. Or at the art shop, whatever it is. But she just becomes one of them with opinions on all of it, too. When she hears the mom the night that she was going to, she hears the mom giving the speech, and she's like, oh, Jesus Christ, this mom's a nightmare. And, you know. But I think what's good about their relationship is that because Phoebe doesn't give any Fs at this point, she can be honest and she's not holding back. And then when Phoebe, or then when Lila says things to her too that are towards the end when. The night before or whatever, when it seems like Phoebe and Jim are kind of flirting and he says to her, do you want to have sex? And she's like, do people have sex just because you ask? Whatever. But people are at the. Gary and Lila are checking them out, and I think we're wondering if they're both jealous, right? Is Gary jealous because of Phoebe and is Lila jealous because of Jim? But she. She asked her later, she says, are you. Is there actually something happening between you guys? And she says, yeah, maybe, why not? And she's like, well, you're just not really his type. He likes like the cheerleader type and you're suicidal. And it's just their. The bluntness of their back and forth. I just really love the dialogue in this book in a weird way.

[B]

Yeah, it's great. I think. Well, first of all, going back to the way that Gary and Lila met, that he goes into the shop, he buys a naked painting of her mother.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

I thought that was so funny how they fairly like, oh, that was that naked picture, that naked woman you bought. It's actually my mother.

[A]

So it's creepy.

[B]

Like. Like, no offense to your mother, but I'd have to burn it and then like, probably burn my eyeballs.

[A]

Can you imagine if we had a naked painting of my mom in our house and they.

[B]

And they actually bring it to the wedding? Yeah, they put it on display at.

[A]

The wedding and the mom's so happy and proud of it.

[B]

Yeah, it's really funny. But I thought so over the week, one thing that I'd caught that maybe was more obvious than I thought about her growth over the course of the week. And she's checking into the hotel and she sees like a bookshelf and she's like, fucking hgtv. Like, all these books are turned around the wrong way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, that's style. Now put the spine out. And her new attitude. Her attitude was kind of like, fuck this, I'm going to fix it because whatever, I'm killing myself anyways. I'm putting this. Like, this is annoying. I'm going to change it because that's what it. So she changes them back and she steals a book. Then the very end of the week, she comes back and she's gonna return the book and she goes to put it on the shelf and she puts it spine out. Which I thought was a real symbol of. At the start of the week, she Was kinda like, fuck it. I'm doing this because this kind of person. I wish I was a person that would go to a bookshelf, A person that would tell someone that they're wrong to tell someone to fuck off. And so the symbolism of her bringing that book back and putting it spine out is like she's finally becoming that person that she wanted to become just during that week.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

Just by the base, that small thing just on the book.

[A]

Wow. Are you. You're out of breath making that point.

[B]

Oh, man. When I drive home a point, I want it to stick, baby.

[A]

I get to see you were getting more and more passionate as you said it.

[B]

And then.

[A]

And then he just took a deep breath after. He was like, got it.

[B]

But it's not what it was. Like, it was a symbol of, like, her progress over the course of the week.

[A]

I 100% agree. I think it definitely was. I think her. Her progress over the course of just going from. Because you. You slowly realize in her marriage and so her husband cheated on her with her only good friend at work. And basically they did it right under her nose. It was crappy. She. You kind of get the idea. She's just not rolled over, but a little bit right where it feels like she. I mean, she's. She says it many times towards the end of the book that she just never. Even though she thought she was in love and had the love of her life, she never really was herself or was open to. And then now, of course, he comes back. Now when this guy comes back. I wasn't expecting that twist in the book. I was not. I thought, of course, because she's gone. She. They work at the same place, so she. They assume, you know, he hears that she didn't check in, didn't show up for work. He starts freaking out. He's worrying about her. Now he's been banging this other woman and they're. I mean, they're Maya. Maya. And I think they're already officially divorced at this point.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But yeah. So it's a couple years now. He's been doing it with Maya. He's become the stepfather to her baby. Him and Phoebe couldn't have babies, all the things. And of course, the minute he doesn't hear from her.

[B]

Texts her a hundred.

[A]

Times, calls her a hundred times. Yeah. And she's like, I don't. What do you. What, you weren't worried about me when I lived down the street from you after you banged Maya under it, right underneath my nose. I'm not gonna check in with you. I mean, it was a little weird that she left her dead cat in the basement. I'll say, if you ever.

[B]

Poor Harry.

[A]

Yeah, poor Harry. He was. We love a cat. You guys know that. And I was concerned that she left Harry in the basement, but she couldn't deal with it. Luckily, douchebag ex husband ended up going over to check on her. He ended up having to deal with the dead cat. That's the way it should be. But of course, he comes showing himself back up, finds out where she is, and yes, she. She has sex with him that. That first night, which I get. She basically says, it's been a long time, someone's coming back caring about me. I think the guy that I like now is getting married tomorrow, so might as well bang my ex husband. And good for her because again, she's just making choices for herself. It feels like that was. That was a point in the book where it could have felt like she was making an a. Try to make him happy or trying to plea. But in that I felt like she was making a choice for herself there. So I didn't mind it. I thought she was just trying to get laid.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

And when she woke up the next morning and saw him, she was like, oh, Jesus Christ, this one. And then, you know, kind of go. Was going on with her day, even though he was going to be her date at the wedding. But it just. It did feel. I was. I was torn at first that she had sex with him, but then the. The more I kind of read the rest of her journey with him, I thought. I think she just was getting hers. And I don't think she was gonna. She wasn't ready to settle back into things. She just got swept up in the moment. She. True. I mean, the end of that chapter, right before she has sex with him, she just says, and it's been a long time. She's just like, I know it. I know the dick. I'll. I might as well, right? It's not a stranger dick. It's like it's all safe. Yeah. You didn't like that?

[B]

No.

[A]

How did you feel about her and the ex husband hooking up?

[B]

I didn't like it. I didn't want her to do it because. But you have. You bring up a good point. But I just like, thought it was such like a. A ass move for him to come back at all. You're divorced. What. What I'm doing right now has nothing. It's none of your business. There's none of your business. What I'm doing right now.

[A]

No, it was so. It was so typical. Oh, she's. Now she's not responding to me now. I'm worried about her now. I want to know what she's doing now. I miss her. And so typical. And I thought it was. It was well written in the sense that I didn't see it coming. And. And. But yet he had all the stereotypes of being the guy who only regrets something when he. When she won't. When he can't hear back from her or whatever. Right. When she's. Oh, no, she. She doesn't miss me anymore. I guess I'm in love. So. But I like that. That all those stereotypes were sort of subtly woven in. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, it's.

[A]

It's. I didn't see it coming. So.

[B]

I like the way during the book how they have like, the flashbacks to their relationship throughout the book. Did you like the way they did that?

[A]

I loved it.

[B]

The way that it was written. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I thought it was really good because it'. Like, you don't just spew it all out at first. It kind of. You, like, learn why she's acting the way she is based on past events that happen between her and her husband.

[A]

Yes. I think that it. It gives you a very good overall take on her period. You just. You. You get the. Because sometimes going back and forth can get a little confusing. But you just. With this. With Even like the Thanksgiving dinner that they went to, where it first became kind of obvious to us as the readers that his. Her husband was going to be into Maya. Right? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even that. Just story and. And her basically saying, I just felt like I was sitting there listening to these two people bond. I'm paraphrasing again. But you. You got a good idea for how she kind of felt like an outsider looking in on her whole marriage. I don't think I ever really got a full take on why she would have been as desperate as she was to end her life at the beginning of the book. But that's why I sort of appreciated the. Not sort of. That's why I appreciated the writing style to where it didn't feel. Even though that's such a desperate move, she didn't feel as desperate. It just was this weird balance of something that took the. I mean, it's. It's such a serious thing and she was trying to do it. I'm not taking that away. But it just. I don't know. It was just well written to where I didn't just. I'm not making any sense.

[B]

No, you are totally making sense. But here, here's my question. Just. This is an overall question. And I read this somewhere. I don't know where I read it, but most women marry men hoping they'll change. Most men marry women hoping they won't. And so when I look at their relationship where it's like, all he wants to do for vacation is go to the Lake of the Ozarks, he's boring. He even says, like, I just like how, like, normal we are. We're just normal people. Like, we're not exciting. We're not doing anything exciting. And we work this job that we both think is okay. I'm ahead of you, you're behind me. I'm just very comfortable in this. Another civil. Like, he rolls up his belt every night. It just like something like. Something like that, you know, it's just like, so boring. And so when they got married, they started to be together for longer and they're like, I want to go to the Cornwall Hotel. And in Newport. It sounds amazing. He's like, let's just go to Lake Ozarks. That's just where I go. Like, I. I'm kind of a. I haven't changed. I just want to be the same person where it's like, maybe she's the one that's progressed, which is probably better, and changing. And he didn't do that along with her because he's just the same as they were before their marriage. That's any truth to that, though, because I talk to women all the time. I have friends and stuff, and they're like whores. And a lot of time women are like, my husband. All he does is he's 45 years old. He sits on the couch and plays video games when he gets home from work. Like, it's so unattractive. I'm like, well, what did he do before you got married? Like, he sat on the couch and played video games. Like, well, you married him. You married him. I think that, you know, it's a bit of the Peter Pan complex that a lot of men have, but also it's like a lot of men don't really change and don't really progress.

[A]

Yeah, I mean.

[B]

I mean, you married a man who played a child's game till he was 41 years old for a living.

[A]

I know, but you are very driven and motivated and you turned it into an adults game where you got paid for it.

[B]

It. Yes.

[A]

So I don't know. It's hard to say because I. I've I've heard that too. And maybe. I'm sure if you did. It's like anything you do, stats, there's probably.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A certain amount of it that goes. Okay. It does lean towards over 50% is that way. But it always kind of feels like a generalization to me because that. All that stuff feels case by case. But in this case, obviously, in the book, we see that she. I think a big problem of theirs was wanting children and her not being able to, and the struggle with that and how sad it was for both of them. And then him going and being with someone that had just had a baby. And also that husband, by the way, having huge issues, too. So. So we'd never. That was. The only thing is I. I almost. I kind of wanted to know how he was doing.

[B]

Right. They never even talk about him again, Right?

[A]

No. Yeah. It's like. It's like he had this awful moment, too, and then his wife left him for her husband. And I thought, I want a little follow up on. Is he good? Could he. Maybe he could have shown up at the wedding. I don't know.

[B]

Maybe it's just like. What? Maybe it's just like one too many characters to talk about.

[A]

Yeah, I just wanted to. Even if it was a tiny blurb, I just wanted to update. No, he was good, because quickly.

[B]

Okay, go ahead. Sorry.

[A]

No, go ahead. I'm done.

[B]

One. One character that was interesting. And I thought it was just. I don't know if it's just like a nothing thing, but Pauline, the girl that worked the front. The lady that worked the front desk, young, she's pretty new to her job, and she's just, like, willing to do everything. So friendly. I need this. Even at the end, they're like, kego, run Pauline a bath. Yes. The very next day, another wedding party is coming in and she's basically like, get out. Like, bye. Like, I think that even. Even Phoebe goes and asks, like, can I stay for one extra night? She's like, no, you're done.

[A]

She's been bending over backwards from Phoebe up until that point.

[B]

Is that, like, is that. Is there some kind of symbolism there or is it just like when you stay at a nice hotel, they're just. They're just, you know, bending over backwards for you while you're there. And then they move on right when you walk out.

[A]

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I know we're getting towards the end and I wanted to talk about this because it was something I highlighted, like, the moment. Basically, they change the sign to a new wedding. And the focus knew. And I do think it's a symbolism about that. I think it's because there's one moment where, where Phoebe also even talks to Lila about your wedding's kind of right. Weddings are, they're all this big thing, nobody gives a shit online. She's like, you're not making me feel any better. But then she ends up giving her kind of a nice message about it because then she says, however, I showed up at this wedding suicidal and look at me now, right? She says, I came out of this up here, I'm good. And kind of gives Lila props for that in a lot of ways, which she deserves because in a weird way, all her interactions with Lila made her feel alive and all, all the other interactions too. But I thought it was so funny when. Because Pauline's bending over backwards, this and.

[B]

That, like above and beyond.

[A]

Yeah. They changed that sign to a new house and she's like, get out of here. And then like neck pillow and it is, is talking about how we couldn't even get another night. She was like, get out of here. We got people coming tomorrow. So I did think there was some symbolism in that of your old news. We're going to treat you the way we're going to treat you when you're taking up our hotel. And even when you berate me, I'm just going to. Okay. But I'll tell you what, when the next person comes, you're. You don't get to berate me anymore. They get to berate me instead. I'm out. I'm done. Yeah, I like that.

[B]

I don't know, I don't know if someone said it or if it's just like a general statement, but they said the more wedding you need, the less happy you must be. Which I thought was a really good line because you know when you see these million dollar weddings and then they can't even go to the altar because they're so unhappy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, but you know, I've seen, I've seen weddings held in church basements that, you know, cost $5 and they're divorced five months later too. So I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's all relative. I mean, I think there's. I think in this case they were looking to spend more money on their wedding and make it a big scene because that's what she was focused on instead of the relationship. And she didn't love his sideburns and did think he was older and they didn't have a Ton in common. And it was all. So the party was gonna give her the facade of happiness, but I think people can do that too and be over the moon. But I did love. I really. I thought this book was just. I just loved all the dry humor and sarcasm. I loved the banter between Lila and Phoebe. There were so many times where I felt like it could just be. I could watch this, I thought. I mean, just little things like, oh, how does Motrin know where the headache is? And just.

[B]

You're right, right, right.

[A]

Yeah. Or when she bursts into her room and she's trying to orgasm in the bathtub and she's like, I was trying to fucking masturbate. And you, like, you just have no boundaries. I. I liked being.

[B]

It's almost funny. Their banter is almost like between two people don't really care what they say to each other because they just met. Or two people that have been friends for 40 years and can say whatever they want to each other because they've been friends. Kind of like opposite ends of the spectrum. If you just started seeing some of the banter, you wouldn't know which direct. What side of the spectrum they were on.

[A]

That's a really good point. And because we do hear that Lila seems to not have very good friends. It's like Phoebe turns into the realest friend ever pretty quickly. And Lila does for her, too, in a lot of ways. By. By saying, just bluntly, you know how she feels. So.

[B]

So before we go, the ending, you know, Lila. Lila comes out, she won't. She won't get into the car because it wasn't the car she wanted to go get into. And clearly she's trying to find an excuse. And Phoebe's just like, pauline, go run her a bath. Take off your dress. I'll go tell them where you're not getting married. How did you like the wedding? The. The ending?

[A]

I liked it. I liked it. I liked that I knew that Phoebe was going to come back and work in that mansion. I liked that.

[B]

I love that. Yeah.

[A]

I. I liked that Layla and Gary didn't go through with it. I, like, Lila just went to Canada, I guess. Right. And ate poutine with her mom.

[B]

Poutine.

[A]

I, in a weird way, do. Did I want a little bit more of. Of Gary and Phoebe riding off into the sunset, I guess. But it wouldn't have fit the way this book was written. No.

[B]

But I think also by her working there now, when Gary's office is basically around the corner, you start to be like, oh, now they're in the same vicinity of one another. I think they're def. I think they're definitely together.

[A]

Yeah. I mean the minute she finds out he's in the hot tub and then she goes there and then the sister in law. Who. Sister slash sister in law for would have been sister in law for Lila was a interesting character too. But yeah, I think we all kind of know where it was going and I think it was, it was, it followed the way her writing style. She didn't bail on her style at the end. She gave us a. Yeah. Kind of an open ended. We know they're.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Gonna figure it out and yeah. I thought it was great. Good pick.

[B]

John, are Jim and Lila together?

[A]

That's. That's the thing is I just felt like there was this moment again. I go back to when she calls him on, she's like, that's why you never build a seaplane. It's like she was. That's her way of caring about him. She was calling him out. She's like, just because you don't do anything, that's why nothing gets. That's why your dreams aren't fulfilled, which is you only care that someone's dreams aren't fulfilled if you care about them. So yeah, I would have liked a little, I don't know, little. Maybe. Maybe a little bang in the bathroom on the way out or something from those two little.

[B]

Okay, last one. Are Phoebe and Lila still friends?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Really? What, what if Phoebe marries Gary? Well, Phoebe's dating Gary and now we're friends.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think Lila gives a shit. I think she'd be like, great, good for you. I'm glad you're not suicidal. I'm glad that he like found the right person.

[B]

If she started dating Jim and Gary started dating Phoebe, then they would, then they would be. It's like the family stone. If you ever watched it, they switch partners, if you will. And I think that's the only way they'd be friends otherwise. I don't think they ever talked again.

[A]

Okay. Okay, listeners, what do you think? Do you think they're still talking? You think they're chilling, hanging out? All four?

[B]

So what's your final, what's your final rating of the book?

[A]

I give her five. Give her a five out of five martinis. Loved it.

[B]

11 and a half out of 12 beers.

[A]

Wow. That seem might be your highest rating yet.

[B]

I think it is. Other than Ellen Hildebrand.

[A]

But yeah, right. I know. I never think about giving halves. Mostly because I'll just never leave a half a martini behind. But wow, good one. Yeah. Thank you, John. This was a great pick. Super fun. We I love this. I love doing these book podcasts with you. Bonding over books ar Tori the Good Lie is our October book. It is darker. You know, this had some dark undertones, of course subject matter. But yeah, air Tori the Good Lie Join us on Patreon if you want to support us there. A free way to support us is to rate, review and subscribe. Leave us a little five star review with a little note. I love them. That's all. Takes you no time. Thank you. And next week we will be talking to McKenna, the owner of Love Struck Seattle, a romance bookstore bookstore that only carries romance novels. So that's going to be super fun since we have five Mondays this month. Don't forget to listen to that too and go support her at her bookstore. And we'll see you guys later.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

The Book list, the book lisp. The book list, the book lisp. The book lisp.