With Friends Like Paul…

Summary

Podcast Summary: "With Friends Like Paul…" – The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Release Date: June 9, 2025
Episode Title: With Friends Like Paul…
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

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Introduction

In the June 9, 2025 episode of The Book Lisp, hosts Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna delve into the intricacies of their chosen book, "A Beautiful Couple" by Lesie Wolf. As regulars of their weekly book club podcast, Jon and Sarah bring their unique blend of humor and insightful analysis to dissect the psychological thriller, setting the stage for engaging discussions over the first three weeks leading up to a full review in week four.

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Book Overview

"A Beautiful Couple" centers around Paul, a local LA news anchor, and his wife Amanda, a healthcare professional. Externally perceived as the quintessential perfect couple, their marriage is anything but idyllic. The narrative kicks off with a shocking event—someone dies—forcing Paul and Amanda to confront the underlying tensions and deceptions in their relationship.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Character Analysis

• Paul: Described vehemently as a "douchebag," Paul embodies the facade of a perfect public image while harboring deep-seated flaws. Sarah emphasizes Paul's manipulative nature, stating, "Paul is the absolute fucking worst" (06:50).

• Amanda: As a healthcare professional, Amanda seeks to escape her toxic marriage primarily for the sake of their child. The couple's dynamic highlights the disparity between public perception and private turmoil.

2. Themes Discussed

• Perception vs. Reality: The hosts explore how the couple's outward perfection masks their internal dissatisfaction. Jon remarks, "Perception versus reality. Which is a lot in this book, by the way" (20:37), highlighting the deceptive appearances the characters maintain.

• Staying Together for the Kids: A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the idea of remaining in a dysfunctional marriage for the sake of children. Sarah shares personal insights, reflecting on her parents' divorces and the impact of staying together for image over happiness.

• Public Image and Hypocrisy: They critique the hypocrisy often seen in public figures who champion noble causes yet fail to embody them in their personal lives. Jon comments on charity events, saying, "Not being sexist, but... they just want their image" (29:19).

3. Personal Insights and Experiences

• Sarah's Personal Reflections: Sarah draws parallels between her parents' marriages and the couple in the book, emphasizing the importance of authentic relationships over socially mandated ones.

• Jon's NFL Background: Leveraging his experience in the NFL, Jon discusses the prevalent issues of maintaining appearances while battling personal shortcomings, drawing a comparison to Paul's character.

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Notable Quotes

• Jon Ryan on Character Hypocrisy:
  "I've been to ton of events like that. You're just like, what. What's. What's going on?" (30:16)

• Sarah Colonna on the Perception of Couples:
  "Perception versus reality. Which is a lot in this book, by the way." (20:37)

• Jon Ryan's Take on Public Figures' Integrity:
  "Let's just stay together for the kids. Like, I knew, I knew so many kids whose parents were, like, miserable, but they're just staying together." (12:32)

• Discussion on Authentic Relationships:
  "Because so many times you see people who are like, oh, this guy's just... They're trying so hard in public to, to... Let someone know I'm shocking, I'm crazy, I'm this, I'm that." (36:34)

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Conclusions and Upcoming Content

Jon and Sarah wrap up the episode by teasing their discussions for the upcoming weeks. They emphasize that the first three weeks will explore various topics and themes from "A Beautiful Couple" without revealing spoilers, culminating in a comprehensive review in week four. Additionally, Jon announces his July pick, "Meet Me at the Lake" by Carly Fortune, promising a refreshing beach read.

The hosts encourage listeners to join their Patreon for access to video content and exclusive bonus podcasts, including short stories and additional discussions.

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Final Thoughts

The Book Lisp episode "With Friends Like Paul…" offers a deep dive into the complexities of maintaining appearances in relationships and the often harsh realities behind them. Through candid conversations and personal anecdotes, Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of "A Beautiful Couple," setting the stage for thoughtful engagement in the weeks to follow.

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For more engaging discussions and to support the podcast, listeners are encouraged to rate, review, and share their favorite episodes on platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Transcript

[Sarah Colonna]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[John Ryan]

And I'm John Ryan.

[Sarah Colonna]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[John Ryan]

The Book Lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book List. Hello and welcome to the Book List with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. I mean, some of you may not recognize John Ryan right now. If you're watching this on Patreon, where you can watch video, you may be like, who's that guy? Because he got a new haircut. Got a new haircut. Got a haircut. It looks really good.

[John Ryan]

I actually went ahead and got them all cut. Dad joke. Ears lowered. You said you got a haircut, and I go. Actually went ahead and got them all cut.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, I see.

[John Ryan]

It's a classic dad joke.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

No, nothing.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, it's fine if you want to tell those jokes. It's just that I have the right to refuse laughter when you do. Okay. No, John, look at you. You're handsome. He's got his. He got his hairs cut. And we are over here recording week two of your June book list, A Beautiful Couple by Lesie Wolf. If you're new here, don't worry, there's no spoilers until week four. That's when we discuss the whole book. Weeks one, two, and three, we just kind of pull topics from the book, but without spoilers, and we riff off of those and also discuss haircuts when they happen. John, you just real quick, just tell everybody about your haircut.

[John Ryan]

Well, I haven't. I've had relatively the same hairstyle for the 10, 11 years we've been together. Maybe sometimes a little bit shorter.

[Sarah Colonna]

Same, by the way.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, but now I just decided I'm going to get it cut and just, you know, switch it up a little bit.

[Sarah Colonna]

So cut today. He did. He's messing with it right now. So if you. Yeah, we do have Patreon. You can watch video on Patreon, but then also the main draw to Patreon, as we do bonus content. So the 5th, the 15th, and the 25th of every month, we do random podcasts, but on the 15th is always a short story. So we stick to the book Lisp theme and we do a short story the 15th of every month. This month. Why do we keep forgetting the name of it right before I talk about it? John.

[John Ryan]

Look at the couple. The. The Perfect Couple. No, the Beautiful Couple.

[Sarah Colonna]

A Beautiful Couple is the June book, but the short story.

[John Ryan]

Oh, 11 numbers.

[Sarah Colonna]

11 numbers by Lee Child. Thank you. So a Beautiful Couple.

[John Ryan]

Also. Also, if you want to listen to it, On Audible. I downloaded today. It's 88 cents.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, what is audible?

[John Ryan]

The 11. 11 numbers.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, 11 numbers by Lee Child is.

[John Ryan]

88 cents on Audible Sense on Audible. Yeah. If you don't listen to it instead of read it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. The short story is. I don't know. They're always available in your library, but they always are available on Kindle or Audible for. For like a dollar or 88 cents. So that's what we choose for those. You can obviously listen to them at any point that you can catch up on, but they're always available on the 15th. Go ahead.

[John Ryan]

Speaking of libraries, we just came from the wine bar, and did you see what happened to my left at the wine bar?

[Sarah Colonna]

No.

[John Ryan]

The bathroom's turned into a library. The woman comes out of the bathroom. She goes, what's the deal with your books in the bathroom? They're like. I don't know, they're just books. And she goes, well, my reading club is reading one of the books in there, and I've been on a wait list to get it in the library, but it's in your bathroom. Can I take it? Oh, and they said, yeah, go ahead, take it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, you can just take books out.

[John Ryan]

Of there because I turned to go. Now, is your bathroom a library now? What's going on?

[Sarah Colonna]

I did not catch that. Yeah. So as you guys, if you might have heard, if you've been listening, our local wine bar does a book club night, a silent book club night, where people just show up and read, but they don't all read the same book. So they do have a lot of books floating around. So, yeah, I guess if you are looking for a book that you may not have, they did have. I remember they had the Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and they had a couple other books that we've read, but good book anyway, that's going on in our neighborhood.

[John Ryan]

I meant to tell you that, but I knew you. I thought you missed it.

[Sarah Colonna]

I did. What were we talking about before you cut you off?

[John Ryan]

About 11 numbers.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, 11 numbers by Lee Child. Yeah. So that's a short story. But then John just announced his July book. It's very exciting. John, tell them your July book.

[John Ryan]

My July book is Meet Me at the Lake. It's a very summery read. It's the definition of a beach read. Meet Me at the Lake by Carly Fortune.

[Sarah Colonna]

By Carly Fortune. That is John's official July read. I did already announce it on the book list spinners Facebook group, which you can join. I announced it on the book list on instagram where everything. And on the book listeners on Facebook, I keep a features tab of all the books we're reading, which also includes the short stories for Patreon. Patreon's only $5 a month. Join us if you can. It's just a way to support and, you know, that's how we do. So this month, though, now back to. Back to me. We're reading my book, A Beautiful Couple, which I'm very happy with. My choice.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, it's up book.

[Sarah Colonna]

Are you done with it yet?

[John Ryan]

Nope.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay.

[John Ryan]

About halfway done.

[Sarah Colonna]

Halfway done. Okay. It gets crazy and. Well, it's already crazy. It starts crazy. I mean, they kind of.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, well, they come right. They come right out of the chutes with it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I like that. I like it.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. No Tom foolery. Right to the point.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right to the point. Someone dies right in the beginning. Always one of my favorite moves. And I think we'll get into my thoughts deeper in the book when we do week four and talk about the book. But one thing, since we kind of just pull topics from the book and discuss them during these first three weeks of the month, one thing I. No matter how far you are into the book, Paul the husband is a douchebag.

[John Ryan]

The worst.

[Sarah Colonna]

It doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't matter. This is no spoiler. If you've read four pages, you know, Paul is the absolute fucking worst. Okay? And I. Every. Every. I. I really do. So one thing I really like about this author is her characters are very vivid to me. I can. I can. Is that the right way to say it?

[John Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

I.

[John Ryan]

She paints a good picture of every character that you can, like, visualize who they are. And you probably know someone who. Who has a lot of those characteristics right off the bat.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. People you'd avoid as fast as possible. And because. And one thing she does well too, on that topic is this couple is they're famous in their neighborhood again. It's. I mean, that part is set in California. Malibu. They're.

[John Ryan]

They're local LA famous.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, they're local LA famous. He's a local anchorman. She's a doctor. And doctor. Right. Yeah. And they are just this. And everyone thinks they are the, quote, unquote, perfect couple, therefore a beautiful couple. They're fucking miserable. Okay? They're miserable. And this is exactly how I like my book to start. Two miserable people, they hate each other and someone dies, and both of them have to figure it out. So. But he is. It's funny because she's so professional. She's so successful in such an opposite. Yeah, but in an opposite field. Right. She helps people.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Is she a doctor?

[John Ryan]

I thought it was a nurse, but I thought she was she some type of nurse?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Maybe I'm googling it.

[John Ryan]

Okay. What are you finding?

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, I know it's. Now I'm just annoying everybody because I, I listen, I, I finished the book a bit a bit ago and this is when I feel like I annoy people. So all we know is she work. We know she works in the healthc care profession.

[John Ryan]

Yes.

[Sarah Colonna]

She's either a doctor or nurse. I think he. That's that. I think she's a nurse. Doesn't matter. But she's helping people for a living. He's a news anchor for a living. On the outside, everyone thinks they are the perfect couple, a beautiful couple. They're clearly not. And what we find out very early on is that she has wanted to. To divorce him for a long time. He wants to stay together for image reasons, which makes me laugh that you think you need and not. And he's not wrong. That's why the book is so entertaining is he's not wrong. You people have to. People think the public needs to know that these two assholes are happy so that they can go to sleep at night. Right.

[John Ryan]

And I feel like he wants to stay together for image and she wants to stay together for the, the, the kid.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, she's, she is staying together for the kid because he's, he said you'll all take. Basically he says, I'll figure it out. I'll, I'll get full custody. He threatens her like he, he makes her. She's trapped in her mind. She's trapped. Now do I believe that? No. Do I think. Of course you can divorce and say, I want shared custody. This, you know, he's a morning news anchor, but he's not going to get to take my kid away from me. She hasn't done anything up until this point. Right. Which we find out, like I said right at the beginning. So he's basically telling her we have to stay together. I'm off track from where I started, but it doesn't matter.

[John Ryan]

All right?

[Sarah Colonna]

He's saying we have to stay together for my image or I'm going to make your life miserable with our child. Or I'm going to take, I'm going to get full custody. I'm going to do this and that. Okay. Is that believable? Not really. Is a mom going to lose custody and not be able to see her son or her small Child. Because her hotshot news anchor, California husband, ktla. Exactly. Probably not, because again, she works in healthcare and she's doing, she's doing real good out there on her own. So that's a little bit stupid. But that topic alone, I started with talking about what a douchebag Paul is, but now that I'm onto this, we'll start this first. Just the topic of people staying together for the kids. Yes, I want to talk about that.

[John Ryan]

I think that doesn't happen as much as it used to. I think people are a little bit smarter now. I mean, like, when I was a kid, it was so normal. It happened all the time. When the kids turned 18, the parents got divorced. Like, I swear to God, it felt like it always happened.

[Sarah Colonna]

Really? Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Especially in our hometown. It was like divorce. It was like, even though it's like a bigger city, it's 200,000 people, but you know, you've been there, it feels really small. Everyone knows everybody because everyone that's born there dies there. I'm not saying that negative thing. I'm just saying that's how it is, that's how why it feels so small. And so there's such, like a negative. What am I such a negative connotation involved with getting divorced back in the 80s, right. And 90s. And so just be like, oh, everyone in town's going to know. Let's just stay together for the kids. Like, I knew, I knew so many kids whose parents were, like, miserable, but they're just staying together.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And it, I mean, as I'm sure plenty of, you know from listening for a while or, or maybe you're new here, so you don't. But my dad was married four times, my mom twice, and my parents got divorced when I was very young. And I say, thank God. Yeah, thank God. They got divorced when I was young. And did I feel that way at the exact moment? No.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

But did I? And, and, and every situation's different. Of course. There's different pressures on people, different situations, different religions, different. I mean, there's a million factors that go into all of this. I understand that. But overall, for me personally, had my parents stayed together, I'd be way more up than I am now.

[John Ryan]

But instead of that, you, your mother met a terrific guy. Now your dad wasn't terrific, but a terrific guy for her. And you got to grow up with a great role models as parents.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes.

[John Ryan]

Where your parents would have stayed together probably would have been miserable, and you would have been growing up thinking that was a totally normal Thing to be just miserable in the marriage.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. And that's my main thing is people that stay together for the kids or think, you know, just like, like Paul does in this threatens her. Oh, we need to stay together for my image. You're all, you're only giving your child the, the worst example of marriage. So. But that kid is now going to grow up thinking that marriage is supposed to be like X instead of like it is. So I grew up saying, oh, even though my dad got married four times, but with my mom, he figured it out.

[John Ryan]

He figured it out. He was very happily married. This is fourth time 30 years.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. And very happily. And I got to see him be very happy. And I got to see him find his soulmate. And with my mom, same thing. And I got to see. But. But I grew up in that house, so I got to see my stepdad and my mom and exactly what I thought a marriage should look like. And therefore I found I, I believe a very similar relationship. Not, you know, not in a creepy way, but in a good way. In the way of, I think I mimicked finding someone to love me for me. But you guys get it. It just seems that that mentality of staying together for the kid or for an image, which only makes Paul more of a douchebag in this book.

[John Ryan]

I would go as far as to say back in the 80s and 90s, it was actually admirable to stay together for the kids. Yeah, people are almost like, good for you guys, you know, just sticking this out for the kids. Yeah, I'm, I'm glad that's changed. I know it still happens, but it's changed a lot, I'm sure.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I'm sure it happens a ton still, but you're right. Yeah, it has changed. But, yeah, in this, in this situation in the book, it's like, not only are you a douchebag who says things like, oh, look at the tits on that one, and this. He's just so gross.

[John Ryan]

Drives me freaking crazy. Because it was a really, it was a. It was really brought to the forefront of the media about nine or ten years ago when someone who was running for election said, grab her by the pussy. And a lot of people said, well, that's just locker room talk between men. Listen, this isn't a political show. I'm just saying. I basically lived my life in a locker room by the time I was seven, till I was 41 years old. And the people that talk so, like, crudely are the guys that have never been in that situation and they think What? They think it's something different than it is. Does that make sense?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

I have. I have a guy that I know I'm friends with. He's in his early 60s. He's never really been in that environment, but he thinks to fit in, he has to say, like, outrageous things like that. When I. When I want to be like, dude, we used to spend 30 hours a week in the locker room. Do you think we just ran around naked and knocked each other over the head with, like, raw meat in clubs? Like, we weren't cavemen. Like, we think we sat around all day talking about sexually assaulting women. That's not what happens in a locker room. So it feels like locker room talk. That's not locker room talk. And it pisses me off. And guys like this, in this book are the guys that think, oh, yeah, I'm like, I'm a Joe. Cool. This is what all those NFL guys are talking about, right? Yeah. Grabbing that girl's titties.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Really? John was like, no, we just talk about who won the Bachelorette.

[John Ryan]

Oh, me and Jermaine curse. We go on the. Every. Almost every day during. After the practice, there's about a group of four or five of us. Jermaine was always one of them. And we talk with a bachelorette. We talked about making a murderer. That was, like, number one subject for. It was like, an hour a day for a month. We talked about making a murderer. It was. We went around the room in the sun and just talked about every single scenario.

[Sarah Colonna]

You guys are all just sitting around in the sauna sweating your asses off, talking about making a murder and the Bachelorette. And everyone's like, yeah, those guys talking about the locker room. Locker room.

[John Ryan]

Also, I've had women come up to me. They're like, I don't know if some women have, like, a fantasy about what it's like in a football locker room, but one woman said to me, like, who has, like, the hardest, like, towel whip on the team? I go, what? You know, you flick each other with towels. I'm like, bitch, no. What are you talking about? Like, you think we run around naked just flicking each other? Like, this isn't, like your fantasy, girl. This is, like, where we work.

[Sarah Colonna]

You imagine?

[John Ryan]

I used to always. I thought we. The weirdest questions from women about locker rooms.

[Sarah Colonna]

That is really funny.

[John Ryan]

I can't even imagine what would happen if someone just walked up to someone else and just flicked them with a towel in their ass. It would be like, a brawl.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. I feel like there'd Be a report afterwards. Instead of anyone laughing. You guys would be like, you got. You guys need to go to the coach's office.

[John Ryan]

I just got. I just got. Me too. Ed by Brett Favre. What the hell? That's not right.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Image always drives me nuts.

[Sarah Colonna]

Perception versus reality. Which is a lot in this book, by the way. There's a lot of that. So I was mentioning. We just brought up a lot about Paul, the main character, the husband, what a douchebag he is. Just.

[John Ryan]

What.

[Sarah Colonna]

And. And part of that, which I'll get into more when we get to week four. But it does always frustrate me, even though these are the kind of books I just. Just, Just put it in my veins. It's my perfect type of book. But it does frustrate me to read a woman with this guy who's just like, always cheating and always scouting out other people and just. And his. I mean, we all know a murder happens early or a quote unquote, accident happens. It's an accident. Not. It's an accident.

[John Ryan]

Ten pages.

[Sarah Colonna]

So, yeah. And we know he's involved. And at. At one, he's such a douchebag that he goes to work a couple days later and he's worried about getting caught, but then he hears a couple of interns talking about how hot he is, and suddenly he's like, oh, whatever for. For. For now I've forgotten about all my issues. I'm like, your issues? Someone's dead. Your wife's helping you cover. She was cleaning your shoes yesterday and you were like, calm down, they're Gucci. Or how do you say I always Hermes or me?

[John Ryan]

Hermes. Hermes.

[Sarah Colonna]

Hermes. Hermes.

[John Ryan]

Hermes. I think you definitely don't say Hermes.

[Sarah Colonna]

Definitely not Hermes. But he's. He's just such a douchebag. And she paints him very well. The author in that light, Leslie Wolf, of. Of what a D bag he is. But it just made me think about perception versus reality when it comes to. And I know it. Just like you said with the NFL locker room, people have this perception. And it's another thing. And probably any locker room, probably a million. And there's probably some people slapping each other on the ass with a towel here and there. Not for sure.

[John Ryan]

I mean, but Burke Williams still is out there.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, that's right. And. But it made me think about, do we know any couples? And we won't name names.

[John Ryan]

No name names. Let's just blow up all our friendships.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, but do you ever think of any. And not even couples necessarily, you know, personally, but you know of, but that you. You see how they act in public, and then, you know, they're a different way. Behind closed doors, or they just are perceived one way. Like, this couple is like, the. I don't even know that this. The couple in this book asked to be perceived this way. They just are, right? Like, she's this rock star in her field. He's a rock star in his field. Together they raise money for this charity together. They're always seen together. That's why he thinks he has to keep the marriage together, for his image. As if anyone gives a shit if an anchor, a news anchor, is single or not, but he thinks they do. So do we have anyone in our lives that. That reminds you of or that you just think of?

[John Ryan]

I think, yes. I think I know a lot of people, especially in the NFL world, okay, that kind of had that. Some of them are better now, and some of them got divorced. But it was always like, we have this perfect marriage. My husband's playing the NFL. I'm done up in makeup every game, and we have a little child, and it looks so perfect. And then I'm just like, but, yeah, I know you hate your wife. Your wife hates you. And, like, as soon as you leave the NFL, you're getting divorced.

[Sarah Colonna]

And then they did.

[John Ryan]

And then they did. Yeah. But also, I think. I think that now that I get older, I see that there's a lot. I grew up with two parents that had, like, an unbelievable marriage. Like, as close to perfect as you can get. You know, it's. They went to sleep at the same time every night. They woke up the same time. They ate breakfast together. My dad would kiss my mom before he went to work, get home, kiss her again. They'd eat dinner together. They'd watch tv, they'd go to bed. Like, you know, I mean, they just had, like. It was. And then I see, like, little things. As I was growing up, I remember just to go to my friend's house, and the parents went to bed. Like, different times. I was like, well, that's messed up. They're not happy. You know, Like.

[Sarah Colonna]

Like.

[John Ryan]

But so as I get older, I see that, like, there's different marriages and they have different things going on, but they're totally happy, and it can work. You know, we have a lot of friends that don't sleep in the same beds. And if I was a kid, I would have been like, oh, my God, that's like. That's crazy. How could you not do that? Even. Like, you and I. I don't know. You And I couldn't do that. Maybe you could, but I couldn't. But you see, like, oh, they're totally happy, but they. They have different bedrooms.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. So. And.

[John Ryan]

Or a bunch of things like that. Like, that's not, you know.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, no, no. But it is one. It is one example because it's a. It's a pretty common thing now, and I couldn't do it. Like, I think I've discussed this for sure before with Mary on. On our. My other podcast. Are you. My podcast. If you want to tune in, A lot of you already listen, but if you'd say don't, you should. I wouldn't. I wouldn't enjoy separate bedrooms from you. I wouldn't enjoy us sleeping in separate bedrooms. There's been maybe a handful of times in our 11 years together that we have slept in separate bedrooms. Usually it had something to do with either someone being sick or a snoring situation that usually neither of us have. But when you are sick or maybe had a couple too many, then sometimes there's a snoring. But for the most part, we sleep well together, therefore, it's not an issue for us. But that's the point. We sleep well together, so it's not an issue for us. A lot of other people, like, we have really good friends that they have completely separate bedrooms. They have a great sex life. They come together when they need to conjure visits. Yeah. Conjugal visits. Yeah. And. And they separate at the end of the night and they both sleep great and they're as happy as can be. There's no, there's no judgment on that. And I think people need to realize that because. And this is all, again, off, just sort of pulling this topic from the book of what. What you perceive as a perfect couple versus what it. What is. It can be very different because whatever. Whatever works. And. And for this couple in our book, it. It's not working right. Because Yas feels like a prisoner in her marriage because he's threatening whatever it is to take the child away, which, again, makes no sense, but it's part of the book, so she wants to stay together for that reason. But for the most part, when you see people and you think they're doing well, maybe they're not, maybe they're not, or maybe they have it figured out so well that when you think it's not going well, it's actually perfect. You never know which way it's going to go.

[John Ryan]

That's true. I know couples who. They seem like they're fighting all the Time. They're constantly bickering and. But they're like. They're totally happy together. That's just how they function.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

So I've seen it the other way too.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, that's true.

[John Ryan]

I will say, I. I didn't realize how many couples don't sleep together, like, in the same room. I asked one of our other friends. I'm like, they're like, no, we've never slept in the same bed. Like, never. Like, like, we. We have friends that are two. The. The. The happy. One of the happiest couples we know. They don't even live in the same house. They've been together for 20 years.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Truly. Truly the best. And love each other so much.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. It's just.

[Sarah Colonna]

It's whatever works. But if it's some. If it's not working and there's children involved. I get where it gets tricky. However, if you're married to a guy like Paul or a woman like Paul, get the fuck out of there as fast as possible because that guy is the worst.

[John Ryan]

Well, he's definitely the worst.

[Sarah Colonna]

I was thinking. Go ahead.

[John Ryan]

He's such, like, the typical. Like, you and I have met 100 local news people, maybe a thousand local news people, and 900 of them are great. And 100 of them are the biggest douchebags you'll ever meet.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And that's what Paul is. Because there was some people who think they. Oh, like, I'm super famous in whatever town, small town America, and they think they, like, run the shit and they, like, act like they're like, fricking this massive star that demands all this tension. You know, reading to their 300 fans every morning from nine to noon, it just. It's just hilarious to me. And, like, I just don't know where that attitude ever comes from. But I see it more in local news people and local radio people than any other. Like, even more than actors and athletes. Like, those people want to be famous so bad and they take advantage of it and they just want it. They're, like, so thirsty for it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, it's funny because in this book, because he is not all of them. Yeah, but. No, but it's funny, but in this. In this book, because it's in Malibu and it is sort of what's entertaining. Like, he is. He's in. He's. He's in a big pond, right? He is in a big world of celebrities and flashiness and all this and that. So he does. He. He. It's a little bit Opposite of what you're talking about. So he does feel like this big fish in quite a big pond, really, which just leads to sort of the narcissism of this character in general, which we'll get into more in week four. But I. You know, like, the. Because it starts off really right with them going to their charity event and them supporting this charity that is supposed to be bringing down the number of drunk drivers. And then, of course, he hops into a car with booze in him, and off we go. In the book, how many charities do you think are run like that? How many hypocrites do you think are in charge of, like, kind of.

[John Ryan]

I don't go to that many, like, charity events anymore. Like, when you play in the NFL, you have to go to a freaking ton of them. You go to, like, 10 a year. You know, the biggest swinging dicks in town come with all their money and their wife and their. Or vice versa, whatever. Not being sexist, but, you know, they all come in, they want to flash everything, and they're, oh, you know, we love the kids or whatever. They make their big, like, donation, then they fucking go home and beat their kid and drive home drunk or whatever. But it's like, there's. I think there's so many hypocrites in that field.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Big rich person. Let's go. Let's donate. Let's look all fancy in front of everyone and then just kind of go back and do everything opposite of what we're preaching right now.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Waiting for the moment, their big moment on stage to like, look what I did. Look what money I raised. But also, I'm the perfect cliche of everything that I've.

[John Ryan]

I've been to some of those events where there's a thousand people and you're like, oh, there's probably 500 cars out front, and all of them are going to get driven home tonight. And I don't see one person here that's sober.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

Like, I've been to tons of events like that. You're just like, what. What's. What's going on?

[Sarah Colonna]

It's depressing.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, it really is. There was one event, one annual event in Seattle that was always, like, crazy, crazy, crazy. And I'm just like, all you. All you assholes, valet your car out front. All these fricking Rolls Royces and Mercedes, they're all getting taken out of here tonight by one of you.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, well, don't say what event it was.

[John Ryan]

No, no, no. It was one I hated. Go ahead.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, we're not trying to make this a depressing podcast by the way trying to still have some fun with.

[John Ryan]

We're just. It is observations baby.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes observations. And, and I think that whole. So this book I feel is truly based on at the jump at the beginning very much a what we always hear and I've already said it once this episode but an Instagram versus reality type life right where people are perceived one way and then their real life at home is another. And what's interesting to me in this book is that people seem to know it right. Like but also not. It's just there's so many. They have so many quote unquote close friends and co workers that they interact with in this book and all, all of them seem. Are they oblivious do you think? And again this is no spoilers but do you think they're oblivious to their relationship being complete shit and that Paul's a complete douchebag who cheats on her every second he gets?

[John Ryan]

No. I.

[Sarah Colonna]

Or, or do you think that they all just sort of just go with this image because that is what it is is what they've are known as.

[John Ryan]

I think they go with it because as time passes you kind of figure people out. You can even fool people for a little bit even in a relationship but after a while, if you really know that person, you know what the really the relationship is behind close doors to a certain degree, I think.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I would think so. I mean I would. I'm trying to think if I've ever been surprised by a couple's demise or a couple's infidelity or something. I don't really know. I don't. I don't have any. I don't really have that many relationships in my life friend wise that I know of cheating happening.

[John Ryan]

No, I don't either. Well, football world, there's a few but.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, but. But like you're. I'm talking about your close friends. I'm talking about.

[John Ryan]

No, yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

People that you spend time with so. Because, because in this right they're. They're. They have close friends who seem sort of rocked by the news that these two aren't this golden couple. And I don't know that I feel like it would be so jarring to find out that a couple that I have known for a long time have dinner with, go to charity events with blah, blah, blah are completely the opposite at home as what I expected. But is that. Which is a great part of the story and is also the world that Leslie Wolf set up. But isn't that Sort of what she's saying, that no matter what your public perception is, even with your closest friends, when the door closes at home, shit can be real different than people think.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I think that's. I think for me, the biggest sign of that is for men. Men that talk completely different when they're around guys than when they're around their wife or other women. It's like my biggest red flag about men. I know people like our friend Thomas. He says outrageous shit. That's hilarious. And he says twice as outrageous shit when he's around Tilly, you know, because he's just. He's the same guy, right? You know, he's the same guy either way. Where I see guys, they talk like crazy, and then around their wife, they're like, oh, I don't swear around my wife. I don't. I'm so respectful. I'm a gentleman.

[Sarah Colonna]

But just to clarify, when you say outrageous shit, he's not like. He doesn't.

[John Ryan]

No, no, no. I'm just. I'm just, like. Just funny stuff.

[Sarah Colonna]

I'm just clarifying for a friend.

[John Ryan]

No. Yes. Thank you.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes.

[John Ryan]

Just funny stuff that you'd be like, that's. That's hilarious. And it's like. Like a little offside. In a good way. Like a hilarious way. And he do twice as offside stuff around his wife.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. And I feel like. Yes.

[John Ryan]

You know what I mean, though, right?

[Sarah Colonna]

I do. Same for you. I feel like you will say anything and everything on your mind around me, and it would never. So. It. So in public, I would never be surprised. I would never be like, john, talk like that. Right, right. And that's what you want. You want your. Your partner, your spouse, your whatever significant other to be someone that everyone knows in public at a certain. In a certain way. And I'm gonna. I'm. I'm gonna try to say this as clearly as possible, but then also, like, wouldn't be surprised. Oh, he said that behind closed doors. Like, I never want. I never want anyone to be caught off guard. Like, what do you mean, caught on. Caught on tape. John Ryan said this. Caught on tapes.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, that's who he is. And I mean that in the good way. I don't. I'm not talking about the people that use shock value. Like in this book where Paul.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

Constantly. Shock value, for sure. But also that's how his mind works. So he's a gross pig. And that's not what we're talking about. But now I feel like I'm just going in circles.

[John Ryan]

No, no, you're good.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. But I think, like, I think the best quality is people know who you are. You are who you are, but it's not because you're trying to be something you're not.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

Does that make sense?

[John Ryan]

Totally.

[Sarah Colonna]

Because so many times you see people who are like, oh, this guy's just. Oh, he. Or this girl, she, whatever, this woman. They're trying. They're trying so hard in public to, To.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Let someone know I'm shocking, I'm crazy, I'm this, I'm that. And then. And they want to make a people uncomfortable.

[John Ryan]

And I, I can't stand those people.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, it's my.

[John Ryan]

It's so annoying. It's like the, it's like the, the bottom of the barrel comedy.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

When people think they're funny, they're like. They say something outrageous. Like, I just speak my mind. I just, I'm just honest. Well, I would like you to honestly shut the up and not speak your mind. That's what I'd like.

[Sarah Colonna]

And we would like you to be nice.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

It's just a lot of times I think people think that being I am who I am, take me or leave me is.

[John Ryan]

And we all know these people.

[Sarah Colonna]

That's the. And it's always if someone says, take me or leave me, it's always someone. You're like, I want to leave.

[John Ryan]

I'm good.

[Sarah Colonna]

Please leave. Yeah. Because I don't want your bullshit. Yeah. I don't. I mean, I have, I have. We. And I have talked about this many times in the past where I've. I had a couple friends growing up or in my early 20s where it was like, I get it, you're shocking, you're. You're challenging people, but you're making people uncomfortable. Not every. You can't expect everyone to meet you at the level that you're at. You have to understand that everyone has a different personality. Everyone's coming from a different place. Sometimes especially in public, sitting at a bar, whatever it is, people aren't always ready for your antics. You gotta. And then. And that doesn't mean they're losers or suckers for. For not sort of picking up on your I'm out here to rib people today kind of thing. And I don't think it's actually funny because I actually think in this book, Paul is the opposite of that. I think in public he's very buttoned up.

[John Ryan]

Buttoned up? Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And he's the cool guy. And in his brain. But then in his mind, he's such garbage because the things that he does say that we hear him say, like I said, or hearing about the interns talking about him or when he's. Or when he's. When he's sitting at this, at the. At the very beginning, at the charity dinner, and the woman that he's obviously banged from his office and he's talking about, in his mind what her. What her body is like. I think that's the only thing that I struggled with from the beginning of this book. So, again, this isn't a spoiler because it starts from the beginning. Was. I don't understand the relationship of the characters. At some point, the marriage. A little bit of me doesn't get why. What is. What is the. What is the wife's name, Babe?

[John Ryan]

I forget.

[Sarah Colonna]

Awesome. This is. I know I keep doing this, but I'm gonna. I'm just gonna. Sorry, guys. I'm just gonna Google it while. While we're sitting here, because I Pa. Amanda. Amanda. Thank you, God. Thank you. I said to myself, yep, Amanda. Part of me doesn't ever reconcile why Amanda is with Paul. And this is from the beginning, and it carries through to the end. So we'll get into that more in week four. But a lot of me, it would be my only thing about a book like this, where I get. Where we set up, okay, the fucking marriage is over. The guy wants the marriage to last because they. He has this image to maintain as a family man. So when she says she's going to divorce him, he's like, you, we're staying together. Blah, blah, blah. We're going to do this. I'm going to. In. In. And she feels trapped. And I. But what. What did she like about this guy in the first place?

[John Ryan]

I know. It's interesting, though. It's very interesting. I was with a buddy this weekend or this week, my buddy, who have been friends for 30 years. His mom is an absolutely lovely person. His dad is like a guy's guy. Maybe a little bit like Paul, you know, but like a good guy, a good man, but just. They're complete opposites. And I have said somebody this week. I'm like, how were your. They're married. They got divorced when he was like, five months old. But I was like, how were your parents ever married? They're exactly. He's like, thank God they got divorced before I could even. Because it's like, I have no clue what my mom saw in him, you know, when they were young. He's just like this guy, like, out on the prowl doing, like, things like Paul's doing. And he's just like. Like, thank God they broke up because I can never, Like, I love him. I could never see how they were ever together. Like, it made no sense that my mom, who made great decisions all the way through her life for some reason decided that she's going to marry this guy and then get divorced five months later.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And I do think there's a world where you can be a really good parent and a really shitty spouse.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

I think those two things can. Can exist. You can be. You can maybe be meant to be a parent and not meant to be a spouse and. Or vice versa. And I think that in that, again, that's why we talk about. Listen, walk. We cut your losses, walk away when you can, and give your child the best chance of seeing a healthy marriage. But in this situation with this guy, I don't. I don't even know if they really paint him ever as a decent father. I guess so a little bit. But just all over, you just kind of feel like, what are we doing with this guy? What are we. Which. Which I like different things about him because I like when he gets a little bit desperate. I like when he feels a little bit threatened. I like. You like seeing sort of their journey. But anyway, Leslie Wolf does a very good job of painting.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Douchebag. And a Complicated World. And I am excited to dive way deeper, fully into the book in week.

[John Ryan]

I know there's some things that I want to talk about because I want to save for the week four.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know it's hard.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

The weeks leading up, we always have so much fun. I do. I know that they're a little bit different when it's a psychological thriller, AKA my picks. Because when it's a John Pick, it's like, oh, there's sort of these loose topics that we talk about.

[John Ryan]

Rainbows and butterflies and love and marriage and.

[Sarah Colonna]

Cause we're always pulling. We're pulling things from the book. But in these, I'm like, so someone died immediately and the marriage is shit and everyone wants out and the couple isn't who you think they are. So it gets a little bit different for our conversations, but I still find them to be very fun.

[John Ryan]

They are very fun. And thanks for doing it with me.

[Sarah Colonna]

Do you mean like sex?

[John Ryan]

Yeah, girl.

[Sarah Colonna]

See, that's his. That's what Paul talks like in my mind.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Paul's like, look at that. Look at that piece of ass. Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Stop it right now. Especially with your nice, new handsome haircut where you just look like a nice, innocent person. Don't talk like a creep. You can listen to us on Patreon, where you can also watch the video of us on Patreon. But we also, we have a. We have ton. We have bonus content there. The 5th, the 15th and the 25th of every month. It's only $5. If you'd like it to support us there, we would appreciate it. If not, support us for free by giving us a rating or a review on Apple or Spotify, where or wherever else you listen and tell a friend. And John, don't forget to re announce your July pick, which is.

[John Ryan]

The July pick is Meet Me at the Lake by Carly Fortune.

[Sarah Colonna]

By Carly Fortune. So we have lots more coming for you. Next week's gonna be super fun, too. And then week four will be our full review. And then there's a fifth Monday. So stay tuned, bonus, stay tuned for what we're gonna do for that week. And we love you guys. Thank you for listening. Good night. The book list, the book lisp. The book list.

[John Ryan]

The book lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

The book lisp.