Are You Believing a Lie? How Do You Know What’s True? - Jonathan Pokluda

Summary

The Candace Cameron Bure Podcast: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Are You Believing a Lie? How Do You Know What’s True?
Guest: Jonathan Pokluda
Release Date: June 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Candace Cameron Bure Podcast, host Candace Cameron Bure is joined by her son Lev Bure and guest Pastor Jonathan Pokluda. The trio delves into the theme of deception, exploring how individuals can discern truth from falsehoods in their lives. The conversation intertwines personal testimonies, spiritual insights, and practical advice on maintaining authenticity and faith.

Personal Testimonies and Faith Journeys

Lev Bure shares his journey to faith, detailing how his parents' marital struggles led them to seek counsel at their church. This experience eventually influenced Lev to give his life to Christ at the age of twelve. He candidly discusses his challenges in living out his faith consistently, particularly before fully committing to a life dedicated to Christ at around twenty-five years old.

Candace Cameron Bure reflects on her upbringing in the entertainment industry and her early exposure to faith. She recounts her own struggles with sin and the transformative power of her relationship with Jesus, emphasizing the importance of community and genuine relationships in sustaining one's faith.

Understanding Deception and the Villain

The discussion centers on the concept of the "villain" as a representation of deception in one's life. Candace illustrates how the enemy manipulates perceptions by making insignificant things appear valuable and vice versa. This metaphor extends to personal experiences, such as misdirected youth and the allure of materialism, highlighting how these deceptions divert individuals from their true purpose and relationship with God.

Pastor Jonathan Pokluda expands on this by connecting personal insecurities and the search for significance to broader spiritual battles. He emphasizes that pride and the desire for public recognition are often rooted in deeper insecurities, which the enemy exploits to lead individuals away from spiritual truths.

The Reality of Hell and Its Misconceptions

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the often-misunderstood topic of hell. Candace passionately defends the traditional biblical view of hell as a place of eternal separation from God, devoid of the comforts and pleasures that deceive the living world. She challenges the modern tendency to downplay the severity of hell, arguing that recognizing its reality is essential for genuine faith and repentance.

The trio discusses common misconceptions, such as the idea that hell is simply a place of punishment or that it can be dismissed as an outdated fear tactic. They reaffirm that hell is a profound reality that underscores the importance of choosing a life aligned with God's will.

Evangelism and Overcoming Fear

The conversation shifts to the challenges of evangelism, particularly the fear of rejection and misunderstanding. Lev shares his personal convictions about the importance of sharing the gospel, recounting experiences where his efforts led to meaningful transformations despite initial resistance.

Candace offers practical advice on approaching evangelism with compassion and honesty, emphasizing that sharing the truth about hell is not about instilling fear but about leading others towards the hope and salvation found in Christ. She underscores the importance of stepping out of comfort zones and the role of divine support in these endeavors.

Listener Engagement and Practical Advice

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts address a listener's question about navigating a work environment where kindness is promoted towards children but not among adults. Candace and Pastor Pokluda provide empathetic and actionable advice, encouraging the listener to model genuine kindness as a reflection of their faith, even in challenging circumstances.

They highlight the impact of being a positive example and the potential ripple effects that one individual's consistent kindness can have within an organization.

Conclusion and Resources

The episode concludes with a brief mention of a free resource titled "No Fear Guide," designed to assist listeners in having spiritual conversations without anxiety. The hosts encourage listeners to utilize this guide to foster meaningful and fearless dialogues about faith.

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Key Takeaways:

• Discernment of Truth: Understanding and recognizing deception is crucial for maintaining authentic faith and purpose.
• Personal Transformation: Genuine relationships and a committed relationship with Christ are foundational for overcoming personal struggles and living out one's faith.
• Reality of Hell: Embracing the biblical perspective of hell reinforces the importance of choosing a life aligned with God's will and rejects the allure of worldly deceptions.
• Evangelism: Overcoming fear and stepping out to share the gospel can lead to profound personal and communal transformations.
• Modeling Kindness: Consistent and genuine kindness, especially in challenging environments, serves as a powerful testament to one's faith and can inspire positive change.

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Note: This summary intentionally avoids direct quotes from the transcript to adhere to copyright policies.

Transcript

[Candace Cameron Bure]

We had a giant boat of a car that had an eight track player and it's my first cassette tape was New Kids on the Block. What Pro paint days are back at Lowe's and my Lowe's Pro Rewards members can save even more with limited time deals right now. Buy one, get one half off select HGTV Home by Sherwin Williams Primer and ceiling paint. Plus get free same day delivery to your job site when you order by 2pm Offer valid through 6 13. Delivery by 8pm Subject to driver availability. Additional terms apply. C loads.com SameDay Delivery for details.

[Lev Bure]

Close.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Lev Bure]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

And breath, breathe.

[Lev Bure]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

1-800-Contacts.

[Lev Bure]

Life is like a roller coaster, but it's better when we go through it together. Welcome to the Candace Cameron Bure podcast. We're here to share conversations about life's challenges, celebrations and everything in between. And we are calling this season you, story has a villain with my son Lev and guest host Pastor Jonathan Pacluda. We call him JP and remember, if you are watching on YouTube, click to subscribe and make sure you tap the bell so you know when you when a new video comes out, come join us.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Bury practicing over the weeks I almost have it down.

[Lev Bure]

I read someone's tweet and they said I can't believe that Candace Cameron Bure has a daughter and they didn't name her Raspberry.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

What?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Raspberry Beret.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Speaking of names, you know how many.

[Lev Bure]

People there's the snort Raspberry.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

You know how many people call you Cameron?

[Lev Bure]

Yes.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

As a first name.

[Lev Bure]

Yes, I do.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

A lot of people do always like wow, it's amazing. Like I love Cameron. Is she going to be here today?

[Lev Bure]

Really? I love like yeah, to my face.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Candace Cameron, I feel like is like such a. I mean iconic. Dare I say that? Is that okay?

[Lev Bure]

Sure.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

It's pretty iconic.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

It is iconic. Well, Cameron, I mean they haven't been off television in how long? Like how long has it never. Right?

[Lev Bure]

I haven't because. Because Full House has never been off the air in almost 40 years.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Were you when you. Your first time on TV.

[Lev Bure]

Oh, five.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Five years old.

[Lev Bure]

Five. Yeah. I've been in the entertainment industry.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So it wasn't full house.

[Lev Bure]

40 years. No, I worked for 5 years before full House, but Full House was my first series.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

How did you become a believer?

[Lev Bure]

Oh, well, here we go. It's my testimony.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

So I became a believer. My parents were on the brink of divorce when I was 12. A friend invited them to go to counseling at their church. My dad was not a believer, my mom was a believer, but my dad agreed to go to counseling and start going to church because they really did want to reconcile the marriage but didn't know how to. This gave him a start. This started our journey, going to church. So at 12, you know, probably after a couple of months of going, six months of going, I gave my life to Christ.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Wow.

[Lev Bure]

And loved Jesus, but I didn't start living my life for Christ and having a relationship with him. And until I was about 25 years old, thought a lot about it, but kids changed me. And then I was like, I don't even know what to teach my kids about God because I don't really know God myself.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Were your parents, like, were they into acting?

[Lev Bure]

No. So my dad was a public school teacher for over 35 years. But we lived in LA, born and raised in LA. And my mom was a stay at home mom raising the four of us kids. And she had a friend whose son was in the business and she would tell my mom all the time, oh, your kids are so cute. Let me give, give me their picture. I'm going to take it to my agent. And one day my mom was just like, okay, here you go, you can have it. And the agent said, sure, I'll look at them, the four of us, because I have two older sisters and an older brother. And the agent interviewed us, took my brother right away, took one of my sisters, didn't take the other one, and told me, because I was four at the time, said, bring her back in a year.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Wow.

[Lev Bure]

So I came back at five.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Come on.

[Lev Bure]

And by then my other sister that the agent had taken realized she didn't like it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Wow.

[Lev Bure]

So she dropped out. And then there was me and my brother.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That is. So here's what's crazy about your testimony. As I hear the, the part about your parents on the brink of divorce. So to tell you the other side, those kinds of stories, I think that if someone, like, if I had a meeting today, it's, it's this family and they're on the brink of divorce, like, and I'M you know, the temptation for me would be for that to feel toilsome. Like, I wouldn't think, I wouldn't have the foresight today unless I'm really walking in the spirit. Really got a great quiet time. Like the Lord is, you know, supernatural discernment. But I would think, oh, this is going to be like such a challenge to meet with this couple. And, you know, it's going to be this thankless job and I'm going to point them, I'm going to try to tell them the right things, but they're going to tell me that I'm crazy, which is how those, those meetings happen in real life. It's like, hey, guys, you need to love each other and you're being selfish and you need to work out your marriage and, and it's kind of like this. Hey, thanks, but no thanks. But as I hear your testimony, like, I'm strengthened. I'm reminded, like, wait. Some of my biggest messes are future missionaries. Some of my biggest problems are future pastors. And you know, I wouldn't. You, you got to think like, hey, you never know how many generations, right. People are going to be. Are going to be impacted by this conversation. If the spirit of God moves through my words and restores this marriage. It's awesome to hear that.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah, yeah. And to follow that up, my dad is a believer now, but my dad wasn't a believer for probably like 30 years or so. I think even within my parents have been married over 55 years now. But anyway, yeah, my dad became a believer probably in my like late 20s.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yes.

[Lev Bure]

Maybe early 30s, something like that. Anyway, pretty cool. Praise God.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I think that's how you know. I know as we talk about the villain, that's how he deceives is. I think he tries to convince us that our, our work is in vain, that it's futile. And it's not really. It doesn't matter. That's. That's a big lie that they say is like, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you do. This is. You're just wasting your time. You know, you're just kind of going through the motion. So as I hear, heard that it actually ministered to me, my, like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I got her. I need to. I was thinking about our staff. I was like, I need to remind our staff that, hey, that our work matters so much that as you, as you minister to people that it might feel thankless. But you don't know what God is going to do on the back end of that, right?

[Lev Bure]

Yeah. So we're talking about God, God deceiving today and the villain deceiving the. I'm sorry. No, God doesn't deceive us. I'm so sorry. That was me being distracted. That was our conversation last week. I was distracted because I was gonna ask you some really fun but silly questions. But I feel like we already got into the conversation. But you had talked about. In the chapter of your book, this chapter, you talked about a story switching price tags on a Boys to Men cd. So of course I'm like, wait, let's talk about.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Let's talk about what CDs I do know. Yeah, you know. All right, you know what?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You know, boys.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

I was really enjoying our time together.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Okay. I'm just asking.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

No, no. Yes, I, I know. Boys to men. Okay, I know. Boys to men.

[Lev Bure]

So what other kind of music did you listen to growing up? Or what other CDs were you buying when we bought CDs?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

My first.

[Lev Bure]

Well, yeah, what was your first CD?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I'm gonna date myself because my first CD was a cassette tape.

[Lev Bure]

Okay, I respect that. Ours too.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

I respect that.

[Lev Bure]

Listen, my brother and sister bought a record. We had the Go Go's record single and the Bangles.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

There was a short lived. We had a giant boat of a car that had an eight track player in it. And I remember we would go on road trips. My dad would play this song. I don't even know who it was. My first cassette tape was New kids on the Block. What? Yeah. Hold on.

[Lev Bure]

Because I go to their concert every year. Yeah, they have a residency in Vegas this year. So some friends and I, we're all gonna go see their show. We see it every year. They have such a fun concert.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

What's your favorite New Kids on the Block song?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

You know the one that goes like in that one way? That's my favorite. I love that one.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Come on.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

I remember my first streaming service. It was great. Yeah, I loved. Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

What was the first Apple music?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

I remember, you know, 10 years ago, it was.

[Lev Bure]

What was it?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

I, I, I am so old. I remember the days where you had to purchase songs individually, you know?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Here we go. Okay. Boomer.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

My very first cd. This is so strange. But it was Smokey Robinson.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Oh, yeah.

[Lev Bure]

Don't know why. Went to Tower Records. But I loved Smokey Robinson. But, you know, different generation. But he was my first cd. And then, and then George Michael the Faith cd. That was my second CD I ever purchased.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Oh, second was Vanilla Ice.

[Lev Bure]

Oh, nice. Yeah, I wrapped with Vanilla Ice.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

See, this is why I just.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Bringing.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Something like hanging out with new kids, like V she. Oh, I was on that album. I was on a Forest Frank album. Nice.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Yeah, you were.

[Lev Bure]

Wait, this is so obnoxious of me, but he has a lyric about me again.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

He does stuff and it's a 100.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I got nothing.

[Lev Bure]

Levit Lev found it and he told me about it.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Actually, you're mistaken. I believe it was Holy. It was Holy's lyric.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. The Forest Frank song.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Okay.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Like DJ Tanner.

[Lev Bure]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. But I was like.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Which he's. Yeah, he's incredible.

[Lev Bure]

That was.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I think I sent that to you. I said. I did. I really. You sent it to me straight up via Instagram. I really did. I was like, hey. It was.

[Lev Bure]

Maybe I didn't.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

It was like a.

[Lev Bure]

Realize it, though.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You don't follow me on Instagram, so you probably never. You never got the. You didn't get the. You didn't get the message. But I did send you because it was a clip they made.

[Lev Bure]

Okay.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That hobby did with forest. And it was a clip. Yeah, it was like the clip and it was that. It was that part. And I was like, hey, shout out it.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Where I'm going, you can't get there with a pj. It's so full inside this house. I feel like. Dj, dude, you got it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

It's so full up in this house.

[Lev Bure]

I feel like you had to explain to me what a PJ is.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I was like, wait, what's a pj? Yeah, Yeah, I gotcha. I'm tracking the private jet.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah. Private jet pj. I was just.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, dude, Shout Out Forest.

[Lev Bure]

But you gotta. Yeah, okay. I gotta bring it back because we. I love this, though. But I want to know that Boys to Men cd.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

Cooley guy Harmony story that you're going to tell me about.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

Because what is that story?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So I was like, misdirected youth. I mean, I was in a small town. I just. I was getting a lot of trouble. My dad was a cowboy. Like, we lived on a farm, cows, the whole deal. And I didn't want anything to do with that. And so I. When I got into high school, I ran with the wrong crowd. And they would steal. Like, they would go and steal stuff. And I was raised in the church. I had this, like, moral compass of sorts. Kind of. You're gonna hear, kind of. And so I couldn't steal, like, the traditional way. Probably just a lack of courage, honestly, fear. And so what I Would do. And I made this right before you guys. You know, I've actually gone back to the Walmart, asked for forgiveness, said, hey, how can I make this right? But what I would do is I would switch price tags. Like, I would take the price tag of something expensive and I see. And I would take the price tag of something cheap and put it on something expensive, right? And then I would go and I would buy. So this is back in the day, there's like, now it's all barcodes and whatnot. Back in the day, it was like, price tag. You would, like, look at the price tag. You would know it's something else. You could switch the barcode or whatnot. And so they would ring it up and I would pay for it, but I was wasn't paying the correct price or paying for the correct item. And I had learned that in high school. You wouldn't get away with that today. But I just. As I think about how the villain deceives, what he does is he takes things that are really cheap and he makes them look expensive, and he takes things that are eternally of eternal value, and he makes them look really cheap. And I'm gonna try to give way to that by saying this. Like, I understood the world. So then when I graduated from college, like, I'm not a believer. I moved to Dallas. I'm kind of everything wrong with Dallas in a person. I'm pretentious and I want to be a millionaire before I'm 30, and I'm chasing the dollar, and I live in the penthouse condo, and I drive the Jaguar and, you know, all the things just. Just chasing the world. And I. I start going to church, and I'm like, man, church is kind of lame. I'm like, I don't. I'm not. Like, the club is a lot of fun, but church is kind of like. Now when I say the club is fun, I think about how many ha overs, how many pregnancy scares, how many, you know, am. I don't feel well this morning. I don't know that I can go to work. I was addicted to pornography. It's, like, completely enslaved to it. I would call in sick so I could look at porn. So all this stuff that I'm calling fun, as I describe it today, I'm like, man, I was a slave. I was a slave to sin. So then when I became a Christian, I came into a right relationship with Jesus. Like, people, I'm starting to experience real community, like deep friendship, real relationships. I remember I went on a mission trip to Africa like when I would. When I would drink, you know, to the point of just, like getting blackout drunk or wasted or whatever, my friend and I, we were like, one day we're going to backpack through Europe. One day we're going to go here. One day we. But what we would do instead of one day we would just go back to the club, run up another bar tab, and then go home. You know that, like, sin robs you of creativity. It just completely strips you of creativity. Creativity. But now I'm a Christian, all of a sudden, I'm like, going to a foreign country to train the government on conflict, on reconciliation and conflict resolution. And it's like, what in the world will, like. God has a real plan and a purpose for your life that goes so far beyond sin. But the enemy will use sin to deceive you, to make you think that life is there so that you don't find the full life that Christ has for us.

[Lev Bure]

How have you been fooled by people?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

Or fooled by something? I guess. I guess my. I was gonna say I feel like I've been fooled by people, but is there something that you've been fooled by either one of you?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

I mean, that you've been deceived A lot.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

A lot of things. I. I worked, you know, my first job in ministry was at a. A really a wealthy church. I mean, just like in a wealthy area. But it might. But I'm doing pastoral care, so I'm. I'm sitting with couples who have everything, but they don't know how to stay married. You know, they. They have, you know, everything, but they don't know how to be happy. They have all these. They have access to all things, but they. They can't find real, true, sustaining joy. And so I. That kind of was this wake up call for me of like, oh, man, I think I'm buying the lie. You know, the Instagram highlight reel.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

This is where life is totally. But then when you get it, it's like, hey, man, there's still. There's still depression amongst, you know, billionaires. There's still suicide amongst hundreds of millionaires. Right. And we see that here especially. It's just like. So that's one. I think every time, you know, that I. I pursued sex outside of marriage, it was like, hey, here's. There's life here. Like, there's significance here. There's. There's pleasure here. And I think, you know, that was a way that I was deceived. Believing a lie. I think that. I think finding significance in a promotion or in corporate America, like, that was a lie. So there's. There's just countless.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Ways throughout my life.

[Lev Bure]

Do you have anything personal that you would share with us, Lev, in a way that you have felt deceived or fooled?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

For me, it's definitely putting worth into things that are of very little value. For me, that's pride is huge. Significance is huge. I think some of my, you know, where I feel in my flesh on top of the world, but really I'm at my lowest low is where, like, I want to be important and I seem important for a lot of people. And I think a lie that the enemy feeds me is that it's this fear of like, almost like the lack of significance, but public significance where really fighting that with the truth that, you know, being significant, significant for the kingdom and being on mission is of, you know, eternal value. But that's, for me, it's definitely rooted in pride. And even like that, I think goes with insecurity as well.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I think about the search for significance. I'll sometimes, like, be in an arena. I mean, a lot of people, you know, I've, you know, I'm not this in a flex, but recently, 55,000 people, and I'm like, who here knows their great great grandfather? You know, in 55,000, who. Who knows their great. Not your grandfather, not your great grandfather, but your great great grandfather. And sometimes there's like two hands that go up, three hands, and I'm like, who could come up here and say, tell me, you know, his hobby, his favorite color, you know, what he did for a living. And you can see those hands kind of go down, right? And I'll go, his name. Like, who can tell me his name? Your great grandfather's name. So the vast majority of people, like the vast majority of our viewers and listeners right now would not be able to do that. And here's what I want you to know. And this is where I'm going. He was alive. You do the math. He was alive 50 years ago. Okay? 50 years ago. So here's what that means. 5, 0, 50 years after we're gone, okay? Nobody's driving down the road saying, oh, thank you so much, great, great grandmother, Great, great grandfather, J.P. thank you for the legacy that you've bestowed upon me. No. To dust we return. You know what's going to happen? Six people are going to carry us in a box in a room, okay? They're going to stand there, they're going to say amazing things about us. They're going to tell. They're going to tell some funny stories, they're going to cry, and then they're going to go get Italian food and fill up on breadsticks and go on about their life and they're going to die too. And then the next generation will have no idea who you are. And you may even like pass on your inheritance to them. Like, they may go to college on your money, but they're not going to know your name. And that perspective is so important for us to understand as we search for significance, as we try to find meaning in this world, we have to understand there's a whole nother world, you know, that we're actually living for, that we're going to die and we're going to be face to face with our Creator. And so the enemy loves to get us like bogged down, you know.

[Lev Bure]

But that is depressing to think about.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Totally it is. If there's not another world, right?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Amen to that.

[Lev Bure]

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[Candace Cameron Bure]

Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait, is that an enemy Enterprise sales solution. Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply. It's really depressing.

[Lev Bure]

Gosh, I just sat here in this world because I'm like, that bummed me out.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

I mean my Val's dad passed away late last year and so, you know, I'm thinking about our time at the funeral and everything that you said. And it's true. Every day goes by and I mean if you're close to someone, you're still thinking about that person, but it's less and less.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

Might as we were maybe, you know, thinking about them every day and then it's a couple times a week and then, you know, anyway, and what I'm.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Saying, and I want to be sensitive to where you're at, but. Or not, but. And Val's dad has a. Had a dad, you know.

[Lev Bure]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And his dad had a dad. We don't know his name. And he's really close family.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You know, really close relative. And like that is life. And so we have to understand that there's this other thing that we're living for that relationships matter because they matter to God. And I mean Jesus. They come to Jesus and they say, hey, your mother and brothers are here. And he goes, who is my mother and brothers, except for those who do the will of my father. And so there's going to be people in the kingdom that we're closer to than non believing relatives. Right. Because we're going to be with them forever and ever and ever, you know, and so we have to maintain that supernatural, spiritual, eternal perspective. And the enemy loves to distract us into the temporal, earthly, you know, natural perspective.

[Lev Bure]

So when we have that heavenly perspective, I want to talk about on the other End of that. Yeah, we talked a little bit about it a couple of weeks ago, maybe in the second episode or something. But a little bit about hell. Yeah, I'd like to talk about that.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I think. Well, I think a great way the Enemy deceives us is trying to make light of hell. You know, it's like, oh, it's not that, you know, I'll share the gospel with people and they're like, oh, I'm going to hell. I'm like, man, if you really knew the horrors of hell, you wouldn't be able to get out of bed if you were going there.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Like, you. You would collapse under the weight of the horrors of hell. Because it's not. Some people are like, oh, it's a party, you know, I'm gonna do drugs in hell. There's no drugs in hell.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Right?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

There's. There's nothing to numb pain in hell. It's. It's all of the pain of this world concentrated and realized. There's. There's. There's no, you know, there's no laughter in hell. Hell is. It's. It's eternal fomo, you know, FOMO is the fear of missing out. Hell is the realization that you could have had paradise with God. But you chose self.

[Lev Bure]

You.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You chose, like, you. You. You really fully engaged in the distractions of the enemy. I. Candice, you may appreciate this, just being a mom, but when the girls we have. We have daughters who are 22 months apart. So before Weston came along, or he was a. Maybe an infant, but when they were little, like, I don't like 2 and 4, they loved lollipops, like. Like, just more than anybody's loved anything. And so I can remember, and I just. You know, you. They have them at the bank and that the. Anywhere you go, like, sometimes there's a bowl of lollipops, and I would Just. When I see them, I'd get them. And. And if I came home as a dad, if I came home with a lollipop, it was just. It might as well have been Disney World, you know?

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And so I. I was at. Getting Monica's car repaired. I was at the mechanic and. Or the dealership getting it worked on, and they had a bowl of lollipops, and I got one, and I was bringing it home for Presley. And when I was on my way home, Monica said, hey, Presley made some bad choices today, and you're gonna have to discipline her when you get home. And I was like, oh, man. Because I, you know, I was gonna come Home a hero. And now I've gotta come home and be the bad guy. And so I come home and I sit her down, and I was like, hey, I understand you made some bad choices today. And she was like, yeah, you know, I was mean to Finley. I was disrespectful to Mom. I said, well, look, I brought you home something today. And I pulled out that lollipop. And I think she thought, oh, I'm gonna get Grace. You know, like. And I threw it away. And, I mean, you would have thought. You'd have thought I hit her thumb with a hammer. I mean, she just. I mean, talk about demonic possession. I mean, I'm kidding about that, but she just, like, goes crazy. She's like, I can do whatever I want. And I was like, whoa.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Right?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

She just had this tantrum.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah. And it reminds me of someone in our family.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah? Who?

[Lev Bure]

Natasha as a child.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I thought you were gonna say him. That's why I said, I'm sorry, Natasha. That wasn't nice to me.

[Lev Bure]

Natasha was on here. She. She would lie. She would admit it's true. She's not like that now.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Anyway, I ended up at Canica because.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

They sent her away.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Wow.

[Lev Bure]

But keep going. Keep going.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So. So she, like, throws this tantrum because I threw away her lollipop. That was her discipline. So I said, oh, really? And I'm trying to, like, as a dad, I'm like, all right, what do I do? Well, recently, I had gotten this box of, like, seas Candy lollipops that I was, like, saving for, like, a birthday or something. Like, these are the expensive stuff.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And I went. And they didn't even. She didn't even know I had them. And it's like, the good stuff, you know? And I went and got it, and I showed it to her, and I slowly poured it out in the trash can, that box. And. And she was just like. When she saw what I had, like, I had a goodness that she didn't even know existed.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Oh, wow.

[Lev Bure]

Wow.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And. And she. Her eyes got really big, and then the realization that she lost that forever.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's hell. Every second. Forever and ever and ever. And I'm not talking about lollipops. It's the full realization of the goodness of God that was available to you. Paradise with God forever and ever and ever. A place where there's no sadness, no death, no disease, no heartbreak. Laughter and joy. The fullness of joy forevermore. Forever and ever and ever and ever. And the realization that you missed out on it forever and Ever and ever. In Luke 16, the rich man and Lazarus. He can see Lazarus. Like he has a perspective. And he's so delusion in his sin that he's like, hey, I'm in torment here. Can you bring me some water? You know, can you cool my tongue? And it's like, no, there's no way for me to get to where you are. There's eternity. We are separated for eternity. And like, that's the realization of hell. And I think the way that the enemy deceives us is to, to convince us that it's not a big deal.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah. I often wonder when someone hears that and they, and they're thinking like, you're just trying to scare me with that brimstone and fire stuff. And you're just, you're trying to scare the. Or put the fear of God in me. And God should be all loving and kind and why are you trying to scare me with hell?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

How do you resp. I mean, I know how I respond to someone like that, but I'd love to hear either of you respond when someone thinks like, that's not nice of you to talk about hell in that way because you're only trying to scare me into a relationship with God.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Well, different people respond to different things in different ways. I really appreciate the truth. And so if, if something is truthful, I think it's loving. And, and the, the, the truth can feel like hate to those who hate the truth. And if, if hell is real, if what I said is real, then the most loving thing I can do is, is tell you about it. So I would say the burden of evidence is on you, listener person, to show me that what I said is incorrect. Because this is what I. Here's how Jesus talked about hell in Luke 12. He said it's just really graphic. He said they will be cut up into pieces and sprinkled into the outer darkness. That's what Jesus. That's what Jesus like peace sign, throw up the deuce, hold a lamb, like.

[Lev Bure]

Walking around loving Jesus right in red letters says it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's what he said.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And so what I'm saying, I'm using even kinder words than King Jesus. And so if you believe in Jesus and you believe in God's word, it describes hell as weeping and gnashing of teeth. It describes it as gehenna, which is a, A, A never ending burning dump where there's, you know, the flesh decomposing because that's where they would throw out dead bodies. I mean, it's, it's A really horrible, horrific place. And, you know, I would. If you said, well, you're just trying to scare me, you know, out of hell, I would say, did it work? You know, I don't know. Yeah, I don't. I'm just trying to communicate the truth. And.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And, and really it is the kindness of God that leads people to repentance. And I think hell, you know, C.S. lewis said hell is locked from the inside, that the only people that go there are those that just said, hey, I, I so much, so badly don't want anything to do with God, that I will end up in a place where there's nothing there that remotely resembles God.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah, thanks for sharing that.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

That's crazy. Now, do you, do you think that, like, as you share the gospel, both of you, with people, I think there is this interesting dichotomy that you mentioned between, like, scaring people out of hell, but also I think in reality is showing the goodness of God. And how do you, how do you present that to people in a way where they're not saying, hey, you're just trying to scare me out, but you're, you're really saying that there's a God who's above all, that's good and he's the, the best thing ever.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. You said, you know what you would say when you asked that question to me. Something come to mind.

[Lev Bure]

I kind of forgot now, but a lot of a good analogy that I like to use with people is if you were in a house that was burning, you are asleep, and I'm your neighbor, and I saw that your rooftop was on fire.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

And I ran to your house and I started burning, banging on your door. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. You're asleep.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

And you're like, why is that neighbor banging on my door? And you'd be annoyed at me. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Not stopping, not stop it. You'd be so grumpy. And if you finally got out of bed, bang, bang, bang. And I opened the door and I'm like, dude, your house is on fire. You'd be so appreciative. Thank you. Thank you for getting me up, getting me out. Like, let's get out, let's run. But without knowing that that reason you would, you might be mad at me that I'm banging on your door at three in the morning. But once you understand and see the bigger picture, that outside perspective of what I see, dude, you're going to die if you stay in there, you'd be very appreciative of the good news of someone rescuing you.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, there's a really, I mean, that's, that's incredible. I'm stealing it and I'll forget where I heard it. I just came up with this, there's this thing, I just came up, there's a famous clip that went viral of pen of Penn and Teller. And so they're, they're magicians have a show in Vegas, arguably, or, or some of the most famous, most well known magicians, illusionists, if you will.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And he, he's an atheist. I mean a renowned, I would say a renowned atheist of our day, a naturalist, doesn't believe in God. And someone at his show was kind to him, gave him a Bible and just very earnestly and sincerely like shared the love of God with him, told him God loves him and talked to him and he went home and like tearfully, I mean, like choking down tears, just said, hey, I, I respect that person who has such a deep conviction of their belief that they would tell me the truth. And he said this famous line that stayed with me because how much do you have to hate a person to not tell them? And so it's like if you, if you see your neighbor's house on fire and you don't want to inconvenience yourself to walk across the street or walk next door to tell them, it's like, how much would you have to hate that person to sit in your home hoping that their house burns down and with them in it or, you know, that they come to some resolution on themselves.

[Lev Bure]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And that's why a lot of, you know, it's been said is a lot of us are like functioning atheists because we, we say we're Christians, but we're surrounded with, by people who we believe are going to go to hell by their own volition one day and we do nothing about it. And I think there's such a command in the scripture for us to share the gospel and I think the enemy deceives us.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Into silence or like keeps us from that.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah. And it's, I think it's all, it's a, it's a comfortability and it's a, it's a, I'm forgetting, I'm not thinking of the word I want to use, but I would say there's a comfort in that we are comfortable and not wanting to inconvenience ourselves or oftentimes we can think, well, if it's not me, God will bring someone else to share. Yeah, I don't want to, I'm Scared. I'm nervous. It's not the right time. I don't know how. I don't feel comfortable enough. I'm not confident enough. Someone else will do it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. I think it's all of those things in fear of man. Galatians 1:10 says, Am I now trying to win the approval of God or of man? Or am I trying to please God or of people? Or am I trying to please people? Or if I'm trying to please people, I would not be a bond servant of Christ. And he presents this dichotomy that you're either a bond servant of Christ where you're afraid of people.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And I, I think all of this, like the whole thrust of the scriptures, that we're to go out and tell everyone how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the Good news. Ephesians 6, a chapter that we've referenced many times, just talks about the feet fitted with the readiness of the gospel. And so I think it's. It's paramount that we do not fall into the enemy's lies. You know that I talk about evangelism all the time and people are like, you know, it's like, what do you think people are afraid of? Like, if they, if they like the person who says, hey, I'm a, I'm a believer, but I don't share my faith because I just. It. Like, what do you think they're actually afraid of?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

They're afraid of what other people think of them.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah. It's rejection ultimately, I think.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So, like, let's just play that out. So like, they, they, their worst fear, they share the gospel and, and they think X is going to happen. What do you think that is?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Someone's gonna attack them.

[Lev Bure]

They just don't know the answer to a question that's going to be asked of them.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. So, like, isn't that like a beautiful deception of the enemy? Like, when I say beautiful, I mean I'm like, fantastic, huge deception of the enemy. Because, like, I have efforted. Again, not a flex, but I've tried to share the gospel every day of my life since becoming a Christian. And no one has ever resorted to any sort of violence toward me ever. Not one time. And then like, the worst that has ever happened, I was in the corporate world and a guy threatened to turn me into hr. And that's bad. You know, you could lose your job, I guess. But I didn't. And that guy ended up becoming a Christian. He got baptized.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Wow.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

His wife became a Christian. She got baptized. And his daughter became a Christian, and she got baptized, and that's what God did. And it's like. It's like God did it, not me. Like, I'm sitting there afraid for my job, and the Lord saves their whole family. And so, like, that's what the enemy, like, that he. He deceives. And if you don't. If you're sitting there and you're like, well, what if they asked me a question? And I don't know, like, I'm going to teach you three words to say in that situation so that you have it for the rest of your life. I don't know.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's okay. You're like, I can. But let me. Let me get back to you.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Chat GPT or Google or something.

[Lev Bure]

I've been really convicted about lately, because in my life, I have always done my best to share the gospel whenever I can.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

And whether. Whether I'm sitting next to someone on an airplane or, you know, and I used to pray about it all the time, and I've gotten really lazy about it. And I was just filming another movie, and there's a lot of crew that I work with that's the same crew. I work with them about three or four times a year.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

And, yeah, this last time, I thought, because I don't get alone time with a lot of these people. We're on a set, we're working there is the HR thing. But every once in a while, you know, a couple of us will go out to dinner after work. And I was sitting there and I got so convicted, and I was like, candace, I. I talk about God all the time because it's in my daily language whether or not someone's a believer. But I thought I actually shared the gospel with the people that I'm sitting at dinner with right now. Have I actually done that? And I was like, nope, I haven't. So it really convicted me. And I'm very prayerful over it now because I'm like, oh, that's just. I'm, you know.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, you.

[Lev Bure]

You get a little too comfortable. That's what I was talking about. I got a little too comfortable. And. And. And I want to feel that conviction, but I just know I need to pray about God. Give me the opportunity. Who do you want me to talk to today? Open up the conversation and. Or just help me find the right words to get us into. Into the conversation and just ask. And it's true, the most people that I've shared the gospel with or just opened up the conversation to say, you Know, like, well, what does your faith look like? Or how did you grow up? Was there. You know, most people are willing to talk about it. Most people are. And, you know, you just take it from there.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Totally.

[Lev Bure]

Okay, we have to get to a listener question because the time goes by so fast. I know. Okay, this. This question is from Jenny.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

First real name.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Not real name.

[Lev Bure]

Traditional name or something.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

I'm sorry, Everyone. Everybody. Exactly Right. Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

What's left? Short for Guess.

[Lev Bure]

It's not. Oh, sorry.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Oh, it's not.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

It's not. It's just Lev.

[Lev Bure]

So Lev. Honestly, Lev is.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Was my great grandfather's name. Can I raise my hand?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

No, no. Great, great.

[Lev Bure]

Not great great, but great. And so that was. That was. Val's grandfather's name was Lev. And we both liked the name. I loved it. So I was like, let's name him Lev. What I didn't realize at the time I. And it is so fitting for Lev is that Lev means heart in Hebrew.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Come on.

[Lev Bure]

And it. Yeah. It just couldn't have been a better matching name for Lev, because this kid is all heart and sensitive in all the best of ways towards people.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Thanks, Mom.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Is that the. The watchmaker?

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

It was his. No, no, that's two more generations back.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Wow.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Two more generations.

[Lev Bure]

Yeah.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

So. But Lev. Yeah.

[Lev Bure]

Okay, so, Jenny. We're gonna get to Jenny's question.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

I think you have a beautiful name.

[Lev Bure]

It's great.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You know, I bet it's short for Jennifer.

[Lev Bure]

Okay. She writes in. I work at a school where the administrators emphasize and reward kindness to the children. However, kindness is not often shown by the administrators to others, especially towards other adults. Do you have any advice for thriving in an environment like this? It can be. Feel very defeating.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. Yes. A great irony for us is, you know, there's like a. We talk about being canceled or cancel culture, you know, and I think a lot of it. We talk about fear of. Of sharing the gospel or upsetting people. Fear of man is like this fear of being canceled. What I don't think we realize, or I think we often forget, is at the crux of our faith is our savior getting canceled. I'm saying in air quotes, if you're listening, in the most heinous way. I mean, brutally tortured naked on the side of the road. And he's the most innocent human being that has ever lived. And so he was kind of the first person to face that kind of persecution. So what I would say for Jenny is I want to first empathize with the challenges of that environment. A hypocritical hey, let's teach kindness, but we're not going to be kind. I know that that's hard and difficult and incredible opportunity for you to display your faith, for you to shine brightly, for you to be the kindest person there because your kindness is really going to pop in a sea of unkindness and, and to lead the charge and, and I don't think we think about that enough that it's like, okay, for me to be like Jesus, for me to be Christ, like, it really is easier, it's actually easier to display Christlike kindness when you're surrounded by unkindness. And so lead the charge there and be the example. And we just pray for courage for you, for the spirit of God did not give you a spirit of timidity, but one of power, love and self discipline. So that's my prayer for you.

[Lev Bure]

Amen.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Come on.

[Lev Bure]

It was great.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Love it.

[Lev Bure]

That was perfect. We're gonna wrap up this episode, okay? And we're gonna come back next week.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Let's go next week.

[Lev Bure]

Pastor JP and I made a free resource for you this season and we're calling it the no Fear guide. Spiritual conversations can be scary for some people, but we know that perfect love casts out fear. Go to Candice.com to find the link. It's also in our show notes. Until next time, be grateful all day, every day. Candy Rock Entertainment. All rights reserved. Learning through play starts with Lego Duplo. With Lego Duplo, toddlers can develop real life skills while having fun with colorful bricks made just for them. Large, easy to grip and safe to explore. When children express themselves with Lego Duplo, they build patience, problem solving and empathy. See your child learn perseverance and self expression with everything they imagine and create. Visit lego.com preschool to learn more.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

We're shipping Father's Day gifts with a rapid fire round of questions. Ready?

[Lev Bure]

Yes. My gift. Can you pack it?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yep.

[Pastor Jonathan Pacluda]

Ship it?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yes.

[Lev Bure]

Guarantee it? Of course. Oh, send a set of golf clubs. Oh.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Hole in one.

[Lev Bure]

Protect electronics dog. Proof it. Return it if they hate it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yes, no and yeah.

[Lev Bure]

Are you the UPS store?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Hey, we have a winner.

[Lev Bure]

Visit theupsstore.com guaranty for full details. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. The UPS Store Visit US Store today.