Sometimes We're Clueless!

Summary

The Candace Cameron Bure Podcast

Episode: Sometimes We're Clueless!
Date: June 9, 2026
Host: Candace Cameron Bure
Co-host: Jason VanRuler, Licensed Therapist

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Candace and therapist/author Jason VanRuler explore the ups and downs of communication in relationships, focusing particularly on how people unintentionally disconnect—or take "off ramps"—from each other. They examine the practicalities of staying emotionally present, offer relatable personal experiences from marriage and parenting, and answer thoughtful listener questions about mental health, emotional regulation, and maintaining connection in busy family life. The tone is warm, candid, and both hosts blend humor with empathy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Intentional Connection

• Jason reflects on why connection is his mission, noting his own childhood loneliness:

  “If we want to change the world, we have to change relationships. There’s a lot of hard stuff going on right now. And so if we could do conflict better, if we could do connection better... literally the world would be a different place.” (03:40–04:12)

2. Daily Practices for Mental Health (“The Daily Five”)

• Jason's Daily Five:

  • Gratitude journal
  • Time in the Word (e.g., daily Bible reading)
  • 50 burpees (physical activity)
  • Do something for his kids
  • Make his wife laugh (07:01–07:26)

• Candace shares her variations:

  • Time in the Word/prayer
  • Push-ups instead of burpees
  • Family-related actions—still under consideration
  • Emphasizes daily physical movement
  • Considers what’s truly needed for her well-being

  “When I make her laugh, she’s like, ‘He loves me. This is him loving me.’” – Jason (07:11)

3. Communication “Off Ramps”: How We Disconnect

Jason breaks down “off ramps”—the subtle, often unconscious behaviors that derail genuine connection:

a. By Communication Style (10:59–15:22)

• Advocate: Rushes to what’s “true or right”, often making assumptions, which leads to checking out before others have shared their perspectives.

  “If you know where it’s headed, how much do you need to invest in the process?” – Jason (11:21)

• Peacemaker: Avoids saying anything that would threaten peace, resulting in passive disengagement and emotional absence.
• Thinker: Withdraws inward, processing in silence; disconnection is shown by absence rather than words.
• Harbor: Loses self by over-functioning for others, appearing “busy” but emotionally unavailable.
• Spark: Deflects discomfort with humor or distraction, lightening the tone to avoid the messy stuff.

b. Why It Hurts: The Cycle of Disconnection

• Over time, repeated “off ramps” lead to deeper feelings of alienation:

  “You’re going to end up being completely disconnected from self and others... that creates a cycle.” (15:22–16:11)

• Lasting health in relationships comes from consistency, not intensity or quick fixes:

  “You don’t become really fit by not consistently doing the work. You don’t become great at communication by not consistently practicing.” – Jason (16:11–17:03)

4. Raising the Standard: Awareness & Intentionality

• Set a reasonable standard for how long “off” periods last before addressing them.
• Know your and your partner’s patterns—some address issues immediately, others delay.

  “In my marriage, we’re allowed like an off couple of days, but if it’s an off week, we gotta do something about that.” – Jason (17:16–18:04)

5. Real-life Marriage Lessons (24:26–26:27)

• Candace shares on lasting connection after 30 years of marriage:

  “We showed up every day... sometimes you feel like you’re hanging off the cliff and you’re holding on by fingertips, but you manage to just get yourself up and you just hang on every day.” (25:07)

  • The “secret”: two willing people who keep working at it, communicate honestly, and still have fun.
• Both hosts value being best friends with their spouses and working as a team.

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Notable Listener Questions & Therapist Advice

1. Managing Anger as a Mom/Wife (26:32–28:16)

• Anger is not inherently bad—it may point to legitimate hurt or be masking other feelings.

  “Sometimes anger is a secondary emotion... sometimes it’s just easier to be mad than to say, ‘I feel really rejected.’” – Jason (27:00–28:05)

• Pause, check yourself emotionally, and clarify what's beneath the anger.

2. Breaking Down Emotional Walls (28:50–31:54)

• Examine why the wall was built—often for protection in childhood.
• Healing comes by gradually testing vulnerability, not leaping from guardedness to total openness.

  “Every behavior we have makes sense in the context it was created… the challenge comes in, the environment changes.” – Jason (31:11)

3. Balancing Emotions with Strong-willed Teens (32:11–36:39)

• Candace: “I have to remind myself that I’m the adult.”
• Take breaks if needed, and sometimes bring in another adult for support.
• Jason: “We don’t have to be outraged if we don’t want to be.”
• Practice active listening and reflect back—eventually, kids self-regulate when they hear their feelings mirrored without judgment.

4. Maintaining Marriage with a Busy Schedule (37:31–41:12)

• Focus on what truly matters to yourself and your partner; efficiency is key.

• Identify and act on each other’s love languages (i.e., Candace prioritizes walks and conversation for quality time).

• Transitions matter: passing the “baton” smoothly when a spouse returns from travel reduces friction and helps family stability.

  “You have to know when to pass the baton... Sometimes couples aren’t good at it... I had to learn to kind of pass the baton and just say... when I come back, I’m going to ease into it.” – Jason (40:23–41:22)

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Memorable Quotes

• “You don’t become really fit by not consistently doing the work. ...Relationally, you don’t become really engaged and connected by just reactively tending to [problems].” – Jason (16:11–17:03)
• “We showed up every day. ...The secret is two willing people.” – Candace (25:07–25:26)
• “You have to know what matters. The busier you are, the more efficient you need to be.” – Jason (37:31–38:12)
• “[If] I’m doing something else, that doesn’t count as quality time… so my phone goes away or my computer goes away.” – Candace (39:42)
• “Our childhood was a blueprint for how we see the world... every behavior... made sense in the context it was created.” – Jason (30:51–31:11)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jason’s “Daily Five” for mental health: 04:42–07:26
• Candace’s take on daily habits: 08:24–09:27
• Explaining “off ramps” in communication: 10:14–15:22
• Cycle of relationship disconnection: 15:22–17:03
• How to ‘raise the standard’ of connection: 17:07–18:36
• Candace’s 30-year marriage reflections: 24:26–26:27
• Dealing with anger & emotional walls: 26:50–31:54
• Parenting strong-willed teens, emotional balance: 32:11–36:39
• Maintaining marriage during long absences: 37:31–41:12

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, supportive, gentle but honest, infused with humor (“We only have great days at my house” – Jason) and practical wisdom. Both hosts share personal anecdotes, own their flaws, and invite listeners to reflect on their own habits without shame.

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Summary

This episode is a toolkit for anyone wrestling with the complex, daily realities of relationships—be it marriage, parenting, or self-care. By demystifying how we disconnect from one another (often without noticing), Candace and Jason empower listeners with self-awareness and simple but effective ways to foster connection, resilience, and joy in everyday life.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Meanwhile, Jason's is great and only great.

[C]

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[A]

Life is like a roller coaster, but it's better when we go through it together. Welcome to the Candace Cameron Bur podcast. This season, my special co host is Jason Van Ruler, a licensed therapist, author and communication coach. And if you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe and tap the bell to find out about new episodes. Come join us. Hi Jason.

[B]

Hey, we're back. We're back. It's great to be here again.

[A]

Yeah, thanks so much for coming. This has been. These conversations have been so insightful. Been love, loved having them. And we're going to just keep talking about how we communicate better with the people in our lives. And this week we're going to talk about how we disconnect. Is that right?

[B]

Yeah. About off ramps. So I believe there's on ramps and off ramps to communication. And so what are the things we do that maybe get in the way of us connecting?

[A]

Okay. Okay, good. So we're gonna talk about that. But I wanna ask you a little bit about yourself because you told us several weeks ago about you being a little 8 year old and wanting to be a therapist. And I wanna know today, why is helping people find connection been so important to you in your life?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think looking back, just who I am, who I've been, it's just always mattered to me because I didn't always have it. So I kind of knew what it was like not to have it and to be kind of that lonely person. As I've grown up and wanted to help people, what I've really noticed is if we want to change the world, we have to change relationships. There's a lot of hard stuff going on right now. And so if we could do conflict better, if we could do connection better, we could do relationships better. What I believe is that literally the world would be a different place. And so that's for me, a big driver.

[A]

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. So all of these stories and these tools have been just really, really helpful. And it takes a lot of work, again, on two, on two people's parts when it comes to relationship, but you can always work on yourself, which is great. And our opening listener question today is actually kind of a simple one. It's from Julie and she asks, what is one thing you do for your mental health every day?

[B]

Yeah. Yes. It's a great question. I have what's called my daily five.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's just five things I do every day and they're non negotiables. So the deal is, is if we want to build like confidence, we have to be consistent. We want to build discipline. That's how we do it. So I'll tell you my daily five and then you can make your own up.

[A]

Okay. I love this.

[B]

So my daily five. First one would be to do my gratitude journal. So that's one of them.

[A]

We've talked a lot about that on the podcast here.

[B]

So important, so important. And it just really sets my mood for the day. Second thing is to be in the word every day. So be in the word or do a devotional. I use the Glorify app is something I've used for a long time.

[A]

I just heard about this app the other day. I've been living under a rock, apparently.

[B]

That's great. I mean, they're short and accessible, but you can do it y. Otherwise, you know, the youversion Bible. There's a lot of other stuff.

[A]

Yeah, I've used the youversion and the Doell Bible.

[B]

Apple.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Also. Yeah. And so then the third thing is I do something physical. So usually I do 50 burpees a day because I don't know why. There's no good reason for that. I just feel like you should.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I feel like you should.

[A]

I agree with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I like fitness, and it's a huge component to my mental health and keeping a clear mind. So do you do the burpees right in the morning?

[B]

I hope to. I don't always, but again, because this is a daily commitment, sometimes it's like 10:30 at night, and my wife is like, what are you. What are you doing right. Right now? Like, getting the burpees done.

[A]

Have it done.

[B]

So it's better to get them at the beginning of the day, but sometimes it's the end.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The fourth thing is I do something for my kids each day. So I have a list of, like, kind of what lights my kids up and what they really love. And so I do something for them every day, just something small and then the last.

[A]

And it could be. Sorry, I like to expand upon things. It could be a little gift. Is it words of affirmation, a little

[B]

note, a little attacks. My daughter likes to draw somebody. Like, draw her something funny or something that's kind of tailored to who they are and what matters to them.

[A]

Okay. So sweet.

[B]

Yep. And then the fifth thing is for my wife, and when we got together, I was sure my wife only wanted me for my looks. And so imagine I'm not laughing at that. Sure, you can laugh at that. But imagine my surprise when I said, you know, we were doing this couples retreat. I said, what do you really like about me? And she said, you know, you always make me laugh. That's really important. And so one of my daily five is to make her laugh. Now, I'm going to tell you, we've been married 19 years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Hard to not run out of material. I'm really having to earn it. I don't know how this will be 40 years in, but every day I try to make her laugh, because when I make her laugh, she's like, he loves me. This is him loving me.

[A]

Oh, I love that.

[B]

So the daily five helps me a lot because I know I did something, and I have a job where I don't always get to see the results. You know, it's like if you mow the yard, you know you mowed it because when you're done, you can see you did it right. When I work with a couple or an organization, I don't always get that. You don't always really see movement. And so for me, doing this allows me to say like, I did a thing and there's proof.

[A]

Oh, I really like that. Yeah, I know. I always think of that in terms of planting seeds just in ministry and going out and being a disciple. You will rarely see the fruit of that. I mean, sometimes you do and it's amazing.

[B]

Those are great days.

[A]

Yeah. Come to Christ and give their life and. But oftentimes you don't. And you just, you don't know what you planted along the way and. But I like this Daily 5. So you do something and you see the result from it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Let me, let me think about what. My five.

[B]

Yeah. What would they be? The burpees. Are you definitely keeping the burpees?

[A]

I think I'm more of a push up girl.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I really hate burpees. I do them.

[B]

I don't know many people who like them.

[A]

Yeah, I don't love them, but I'd say, I'd say push ups. Actually, I gotta see, because of my, my 50th birthday this year, I gotta see if I can do 50 push ups. I'm not sure. I know I could easily do 35 or 40.

[B]

You could break them down.

[A]

Yeah, no, I'm too competitive.

[B]

Can do all at once.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, well, might have to work up to that.

[A]

Okay, I might. I'll let you know. I'll keep you posted how the bishops go. But I would definitely say time in the word. That's a non negotiable for me. Every single day in prayer, some kind of physical exercise like showering. I might not shower every day, but mostly.

[B]

Is that on the list?

[A]

What, what else?

[B]

Yeah. One of the fun things about this is it helps you know what you need.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we were kind of talking in earlier episodes about like, how do I know what I need? Right. This is a great testing ground because what happens if you don't get it? Right. And if you notice you didn't get it, it's probably something pretty important.

[A]

Okay. I love that I have a little more thinking to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I want to think about it in terms of my family too, but I don't know. I'm not sure yet. Okay, well, let's move on to actual communication and understanding the different types. Well, we talked about conflict already. And how to. How conflict affects every different type of communication. And today we're going to talk about the off ramps. So let's break that down again.

[B]

Yeah. So what are the things outside of conflict? I mean, conflict's kind of the big obvious one that gets in the way. But what are the other things that happen that get in the way of healthy communication and connection? Things like distractions. Right. We talked earlier about, you know, someone's looking at their phone, they're not being present. That would be an off ramp. Right. Because it's getting in the way of us connecting. So it's things like that, that despite our best efforts, like, they just redirect that communication and connection.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

So how does each path type disconnect? Should we go through each and every one of them?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, totally can.

[A]

Well, let's. Let's start with the advocate. We're gonna jump to the A and pass.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So what should I be aware of in.

[B]

Yeah, I think. I think rushing. Right. To escalating it to being about what's true or about what's right. Right. It's kind of. I think the risk for the advocate is they make a lot of assumptions at times. Right. So.

[A]

But I think of Paul when he's like. But whatever is true and right and lovely and think upon those things.

[B]

That's fair. It's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. But how do they disengage? Well, they disengage because they kind of believe that they know where it's headed. Right. And so if you know where it's headed, then how much do you need to invest in the process? Right. So it's. It's sort of like if you, you know, if you take the same drive every day to the same place, like, pretty soon you don't think about it too much. You just end up there. And so the challenge for an advocate is like, they just. They. They know where they always want to end up. Right. And so they don't think too much about how they get there or they make assumptions about how they're going to get there. And so what happens is that an advocate can sometimes miss that people are even willing to change because they're just jumping to what's right and true and real.

[A]

Can you give me a practical example?

[B]

Yeah, I think. I think what happens is that, like, if we're having a discussion, right. And I'm sharing with you how I feel, you might just jump to what's true. Right. So you might not even honor what I just said you might just assume. Yep. Well, we're going to talk about it. He's going to have to figure that out. This is what's true. And I think that jump right. Without kind of walking alongside me, that's checking out, right? That's checking out of that conversation. Yep. Because at that time, you've lost me and I've lost you.

[A]

I see.

[B]

And the thing is that people will walk alongside you if you walk alongside them, you know, so you have to kind of slow yourself down from jumping to that end point.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Makes sense. Okay, let's go back to Peacemaker.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So how do they disengage?

[B]

Yeah. So the problem for a peacemaker, again, is that if they're going to say something, it's probably going to challenge the notion that things are peaceful. Okay. And so what they'll do is they'll just say, it's not even worth it. It's just not even worth it. They'll raise the bar so high to leaning into that that they're just like, doesn't matter, let's not do it. Now, some people are really sensitive. They'll say anything about anything. Right. They're always willing to say it. But a Peacemaker goes, it's not. It's not worth the struggle. I just won't. And they kind of remove themselves. And so they become a person who then is present but not really present.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Now the T thinker, they go into the logic, right? So as we talked before, the thinker's doing all the internal processing and strategy and kind of analyzing what's all happening. And so they just go internal, right. They kind of disappear. So sometimes if you are in a relationship with a thinker and they're in an off ramp and there's a big problem, like you'll know because of their silence. Not because always what they're saying, but because they're just inside doing all this stuff, Right. They're kind of cycling through what's happening, how am I processing it, what needs to happen, but it's not being spoken about.

[A]

Okay. And the spark.

[B]

Yeah. Or do you want to do the harbor?

[A]

Oh, sorry, the harbor. I didn't mean to skip over you.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

That was not enough.

[B]

I've got some feelings about that. I've got some feelings about that. That's okay. I'll allow it this time. Yeah. What they do is they over function for others. So they will kind of disengage by just kind of completely abandoning themselves and making it all about the other person. And they get lost in that. Then. So what's hard for a harbor is that when they disengage or there's an off ramp, it actually looks like they're working harder. And so it's a little tricky because it's like, wow, that's really great. But what they're doing is they're losing themselves and that. Because they're saying, I'll just double down.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And now the spark. Disengage.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, in the spark, you could probably guess, right? They. They kind of just take off running. Right. Or they'll try to be humorous about the thing, or they'll try to bring up the energy level. Even if it doesn't.

[A]

It's that person that always cracks a joke when it's actually this uncomfortable conversation.

[B]

Yeah. And it's usually pretty funny. I mean, I love those people, and those jokes are hilarious. But. But what they're really trying to do is they're like, I don't like how this feels. Can we bring it to this place instead?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so what's the impact of disconnecting on people's lives over time?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I. I think the. The impact is that you're going to end up in a place of being completely disconnected from self and others. And. And so even though maybe today that doesn't seem like a big problem because it's like we had an off night or an off week, what people don't understand is that creates a cycle. Okay? And so I will see couples where they'll call me up and they'll say, jason, we have neglected each other. We've been doing all the offerings. We've been disengaged. We gotta come in and we gotta do an intensive. Okay? And I'll say, great, fine. So they'll fly out to me, we'll do the work, and I'll say, okay, now you gotta keep working on this. Right? And they'll go, yep, we're totally. We're totally gonna do that. Okay, you. We're totally gonna do that. And then I won't hear anything.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And six months later, the phone will ring, and I'll be that same person. And they'll be a little breathy on the phone, you know, and they'll go, hey, you'll never believe what happened. And I go, oh, I'm actually a pretty good guesser. I think I know what happened. Right. And what will have happened is the same thing that brought them in in the first place. Right? Which is that they just weren't Consistently doing the work. Okay. And so the challenge is it's kind of like fitness or anything like that. You just. You don't become really fit by not consistently doing the work. Yeah, this doesn't work. You don't become great at communication by not consistently practicing. And relationally, you don't become really engaged and connected by just reactively tending to. Makes movement. But that reactive, what I call reactive intimacy is really damaging to people because it's kind of like you get close and then you end up flying apart and you come close and apart. Close and apart.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's not the relationship dynamic we want.

[A]

Yeah. So how can people be intentional and aware of. Of when and how that happens in their relationships?

[B]

Yeah, you have to kind of raise the standard on your relationship. So you have to say what. What justifies someone to say something and, and not say something in an attacking way. But. But who is going to say something if we've drifted apart a little bit? And how long do we let that go? And every past self struggles with that to some degree, either doing it too soon or too late. But how do we kind of figure out when to say something? You know, in my marriage, we're allowed like an off couple of days, but if it's been an off week, we gotta do something about that. Yeah, okay. But what I see sometimes in couples and teams is they're like, off couple of days. We've had off months. And so if that's where your standard is, you just gotta. You gotta up that standard a little bit and just say, like, how long are we gonna let this go before we have to have a conversation?

[A]

Right. No, that's hard. I. I don't, I don't like any. I hate things swept under the rug. I'm like, let's have it now.

[B]

You're like, I wait 30 seconds, Jason. We were disconnected for 30 seconds. We fixed it. We fixed it. It's great.

[A]

Pretty much. But I know sometimes that can be like, dude, just chill out. Like it's a day, or someone just doesn't feel well that day. But you're reading into. Yeah, a lot of it, but yeah, but if it's. If it's been more than a week or you're going on months, then yeah,

[B]

why aren't we tending to that? Yeah. And everybody's different. I laugh when you say it because my wife is similar. You know, she's. She's a doer. And it's like, well, you presented a problem. Fix it immediately. You know, And I'm like, well, let's talk about how it feels for a long time. And she's like, I just want to solve it. So you know, we are all going to have a different approach, but the biggest thing is to know who we are and who our person is and then how we manage that in our relationship.

[C]

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[A]

I really

[C]

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[A]

I know how it goes.

[C]

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[A]

I can't wait to put some of this in practice when I get home. Yeah, I. I really can't. And I feel like, honestly, my husband and I communicate really well. And it's just, we've been married, we're celebrating 30 years, okay? And so it's taken a lot to get there, but we have. And not every day is great. And we have an off day here and there.

[B]

Not every day is great, okay? We only have great days at my house.

[A]

So that's gonna be used in a soundbite. There's gonna be another headline that says, candace, Cameron Burry's marriage is terrible and not perfect.

[B]

Meanwhile, Jason's is great and only great. Yeah, this is fantastic news.

[A]

But I get. I can look back at 30 years of marriage and see the improvement over the years and where it is today. And I'm really Proud of the two of us together as a couple to just keep working at it and keep talking. And that excites me, and it gives me great gratitude in my heart to have a loving husband that wants to do life well together with each other,

[B]

you know, and is pointed the same direction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Would you say. I'm curious. Would you say, you know, to get to 30 years, was it some big secret or trick that you did, or was it just like, we just showed up every day?

[A]

We showed up every day. I mean, sometimes you feel like you're. You're hanging off the cliff and you're, like, holding on by fingertips, but you manage to just get yourself up and you just hang on every day, you know? But again, it takes. I think the secret is two willing people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right there.

[B]

If you don't have that.

[A]

If you don't have that, it's very difficult. And so I don't. I don't have a big secret. I would say, too, there's a lot of love. The communication, obviously, is incredibly important.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And like your. Like your wife says, like, we love to laugh with each other, and that makes. I want to have fun with my buddy, my partner, my person, my best friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it makes life so much enjoyable when you can find the fun things in life to do together.

[B]

Yeah. I always. Sometimes people will say, you know, you don't have to be best friends with your person. And I'm like, but I want to be. You know, that would be so disappointing if you couldn't be best friends, you know, But. But I think it's that what I hear from you is just being on the same team.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, some of the best moments that we have in our marriage is when I look at my wife, and we'll take. Kind of take this pause, and the kids are fighting. You know, I'll go, hey, we're getting killed out there. And she's like, we totally are. What are we gonna do?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But those moments are the best because it's like we're just on the same team doing life together in the same direction.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Well, let's go to our first listener question today. This is from a woman who gave us her username, Timeless Royalty18. And she wants to know, how do I become a better. How do I become a better mother and wife when my emotion for anger

[C]

and rage takes over so quickly?

[A]

I don't want anger to control my life. What do you suggest to help overcome that emotion?

[B]

Yeah, well, I'm going to be a therapist here.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. So I'm going to say, you know, anger is not a bad emotion. I mean, I think even if we look biblically, I mean, there's righteous anger. Right. So I think it's how it comes out. What it's about is really important. What I often think when someone comes to me and they say they're struggling with anger is, is there something legitimate to be angry about? Sometimes there is. You know, sometimes people say, well, I'm really angry. I'll say, what are you angry about? And they'll say this completely normal, reasonable thing to be mad about. If that's the case, okay, well, put that energy to good use. Right. So you say, okay, well, what are. What are the parameters of the season? How long is it going to last? What do I need to do? The other option is that someone's really angry because it's easier to be angry than to feel what's really going on. Okay, that one's a little tricky because sometimes anger is a secondary emotion. And so what it means is, if I'm feeling sad or rejected or disappointed, that'd be really hard to feel. Right. That'd be uncomfortable. And so sometimes it's just easier to be mad than to say, I feel really rejected.

[A]

Right. Makes sense.

[B]

Yeah. And so to that person, I just say, which one is it? And what needs to happen? Right. And so if it's like, well, I'm really sad. Okay, is there a good reason to be sad? Or what do we need to do with that?

[A]

Okay. So they really have to stop and have an emotional check with themselves.

[B]

Yeah. And it's usually just take a breath, you know, so it's usually what a lot of people, and I fall into this, too. We're just running so fast all the time that we don't even just stop to go, hey, wait a second. What is this really about?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Well, our second question is from Karen. How do I break down the wall I've created to protect myself and others from my emotions?

[B]

Okay. Want to break down a wall. So what I hear this question as is, how do I kind of let people in? Is that how you.

[A]

I think, yeah. How do I break down the wall I've created to protect myself?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

From my emotions? Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, where I'd go is, why'd you create the wall? Right. And have we done some healing around that? Because people build walls for good reason. And so it's okay to honor that. That maybe was necessary then and isn't now. And then what I would Tell you. So I see a lot of people do this. They go, I've been really guarded, and I've been defensive, and I played it really close to the vest, and. And I don't want to do that anymore. So now I'm going to go from here to the other side, and I'm going to be a wide open book. Okay. But what inevitably happens to that person is they get hurt almost instantly because they go and they share too much and they're too vulnerable with someone who doesn't have capacity for it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. And so what I would say to that person is, remember, there's a middle ground. Okay. And so we can incrementally let people in and see what they do with that vulnerability.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But you have to have some patience, because if you. You just break the whole wall down, you go, great, now I'm completely vulnerable and open.

[A]

Right.

[B]

A lot of people aren't good stewards of that.

[A]

Right. Do you think if someone has those walls built up, like you said, there's probably some. It's coming from somewhere. Are you a therapist that takes people back to childhood or tries to find the root causes of that? Do you think that's important for people

[B]

to do as much as you can, you know? So the thing about childhood, and it's been interesting to see kind of how therapy works, because a lot of people would say, well, I don't care about my past. And that's got nothing to do with anything.

[A]

I was one of those people, too, the first time. I'm like, the past is the past. Let's just talk about the present.

[B]

Yeah, I love that. That's great. And. And sort of factors in a little bit. Yeah. And so what we have to remember is whether we wanted it or not, our childhood was a blueprint for how we see the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And maybe we don't like what that taught us, but it still is a blueprint. And so what we did with that is we learned to exist in a certain way to keep us going, because kids can't really opt out. You know, you can't be six and kind of pack a bag and say, decided, I don't want to live here anymore. Take care. It doesn't work that way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So what kids have to do is adapt. Right. And they adapt by doing things like building walls. Right. So you say, I'm getting hurt. I got to build some walls that I'm protected, or I need to do this or do that. And so what I try to help people understand is every behavior we have makes sense in the context that it was created. Right. We created it to deal with a very real issue. The challenge comes in, the environment changes. Okay, so maybe you grew up in a place where having walls was how you got by.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But now you want to have a healthy marriage. Now there's a problem. Right. And so sometimes it's just going back to the source and saying that made sense then and I can grieve that I had to do that. But there's new rules today.

[A]

Yeah, great. Thank you for that. We have a third question here. This is from Jessica. How do you balance your emotions while raising two very strong minded teenage girls?

[B]

Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. What would you say? Do you have a thought on that?

[A]

Oh, how do I balance my emotions? I have to remind myself that I'm the adult. That's honestly when, especially in the teenage years when it's like hormones are.

[B]

You sort of forget because they can even be tall and like adult size, you know, and so it can.

[A]

Everyone's adult size in my world. I'm a petite, short person, so my kids outgrew me a long time ago while.

[B]

So when you look around, it's like, it's hard to see. Oh, I'm actually in charge of the adult.

[A]

And a lot of times when those emotions are flying, it is so easy to just jump on the same train that they're on and, and talk in the same manner that they are. Because you're, you know, if they're screaming and yelling, you just, it's like you're, I don't know, you're trying to out yell them as the parent. And yet I'm like, I'm the adult. I'm the adult. The adult doesn't respond that way. I'm the one with maturity. And I have had so many conversations with myself in the moment, or I just take a deep breath and, you know, walk away for a few moments and saying like, we'll, we'll continue this discussion. I need a break right now to collect my thoughts and often will remove myself if I feel that my emotions are just too heightened to have a civil conversation with my teenagers.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And sometimes if I've really flown off the handle, I'm like, I'm just waiting till your dad gets home so we can all talk about it together. Because I need a buddy. I don't, I, I don't even trust that I'm gonna be able to keep control of my emotions. So I need an advocate with me to make sure that I'm holding my maturity in the conversation. Not about, you know, being against my children or anything like that, but just

[B]

that we need reinforcements.

[A]

I need a reinforcement, but it's more about my responsibility as being an adult.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

So I. I guess those are the. The few tools that I've used to control my emotions when my kids were teens. What would you say as the therapist?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, and that is tough. And I would agree with everything you said. So those are all good strategies and approaches. Something we'll say in our house is like, we. We don't have to be outraged about this if we don't want to be. So just kind of giving the choice because, you know, kids in that age group are like, I'm outraged. And it's the biggest thing in the world.

[A]

And.

[B]

And so we're always just kind of reminding them, like, we. We don't have to do that if we don't want to. We can. Could be kind of fun, but we don't have to. Then what I try to do is

[A]

there's nothing more annoying than that, though. Can I tell you which is so good and how it should be? But when you're emotionally charged and the other person comes in so calm, it's so annoying and frustrating.

[B]

It is. It's like, come on, get in on this, get in on this.

[A]

Get in and suck everyone in into your little pity party. But anyway, keep going so you can.

[B]

The other thing is, I like to just kind of say and just act of listening, like, here's what I hear you saying. And the reason for that is, and I think God did such a good job with us and put this in our heart, like, we'll catch ourselves eventually, you know, so with the kids, I'll say, so you know, what I hear you saying is, this happened at school. It'll never be the same. The whole world is ending. And you know, and I'll just kind of go. And they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And eventually they'll go, I don't know, I don't know. And they'll just kind of wear themselves out. And so if I can just kind of say, hey, I'm listening, I'm here. I care about you, but this is what you're telling me. We have this great kind of self regulation that eventually even teenagers, angsty teenagers, go, maybe I overshot that a little bit. And so it's kind of a cool moment. And why I love that is then they've learned for themselves.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

Yeah. So when they go, that doesn't Sound quite right.

[A]

So it's sitting, it's listening to them and then saying, here's what I hear you saying and repeating. So you gotta listen and not judging

[B]

it, even, just not judging, even if it sounds, you know, even if as a parent you're like, I don't know what is going on.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Your job is just to say like, here's, here's a recap of what you're telling me.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And is that right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And eventually they're gonna go, they'll hear

[A]

some of the ridiculousness in it.

[B]

Yeah. And then they go, well, maybe I'd say it like this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. That's really good advice. I will say I'm really happy to be out of the teenage years.

[B]

I'm really happy to be in them. Yeah, it's great. I'm loving it.

[A]

This is great. This is from Danielle. All the listeners are so happy too when we get to answer so many questions. So thanks for this. Any tip on how to maintain a great marriage when your hubby is out of the house for 12 plus hours a day? We're doing great right now. It's only been three weeks of this after seven months of unemployment due to government layoffs. But I want to be proactive to safeguard our marriage in a season of something new. So they're doing fine, but her husband's now working 12 hour days. So how are they going to maintain their great relationship when they don't spend it much time together?

[B]

Yeah, I'm happy to answer this, but I actually want to hear too from you because I know you're busy and doing stuff too, so I'd be glad to hear your take. I'll tell you my take. You just have to know what matters. Okay. So the busier you are, the more efficient you need to be. And so what I see couples struggle with sometimes is they don't really know what works. And you think about communication types, love languages, how people are lit up, what they enjoy. Like you have to know all of that and then do that. And what I would say is if you know it and you do it, it actually doesn't take that much time. Like most people don't need so much maintenance. The, the thing that takes a lot of time is if you're doing everything and you don't know what matters.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, that's a great answer and great insisting. So I'll piggyback on that and say the same thing. Because we, we are a couple that does travel a lot. But I travel more than my husband, so I'm always the one leaving and out of the house. And my husband very much values quality time. That is his number one. He loves time together. And so great that I have the job that I'm leaving for three to four weeks out of a month, and I'm like, peace out. He does come visit me because we put different practices in place over the years, so. So he will come up and visit me while I'm filming a movie. So we're not gone for four weeks without seeing each other, but when we're at home, because I know that that is important to him. We've just made practices, like you said, that we have our time together. I know that if we're together, but I'm on my phone or I'm on my computer, that doesn't count as quality time because I'm not actively with him. Not that we have to be talking, but it's engaging. It's being with one another. And if I'm doing something else, that doesn't count. So my phone goes away or my computer goes away. We're intentional about taking walks together and. And having those conversations and we work out together, but we do all of those things. So it becomes very easy because.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And. And in the opposite, he knows what my. What resonates with me to that in which I feel loved. And it really is the conversations and the words that we share and the communication. Like, I like words in that way. And so we, I guess, double that up. Going and taking a walk fulfills his time with me alone, uninterrupted, and I get the conversation out of it. I mean, so does he. And it's a win. So I love that advice. Is that you just really have to know what's most important within the relationship that sparks both of you to feel loved and connected and communicating.

[B]

Well, yeah, yeah, all of that. We do the walk, too, and, you know, sometimes it's colder than other days. We do the walk, and we love that. And the other thing I would just say is you have to know when to pass the baton. And what I mean by that is, if you're leaving and they're staying, you have to know how to hand that off. And so sometimes where couples will get in trouble is they're not good at passing the baton. Right? So say, hey, I'm going to leave, but I'm going to try to remotely manage everything. You can't do it. Right. And so you have to just kind of get good at saying, like, who's running the show on this? And Let them do it. Right. Because otherwise sometimes, and I've even experienced this traveling a lot, too, is I'll come home and then I'll say, well, now I'm going to parent. I'm going to tell you guys all how everything should be. That doesn't work so hot. Yeah. It's not a great reception when that happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had to learn to kind of pass the baton and just say like that when. When I come back and I've been gone, I'm going to ease into it instead of come in and sort of say how I think it should be.

[A]

Yeah. I wish I had learned that 20 years ago or 25 years ago. Would have. It would have helped along the way, but same thing, because it's something bulldozed my way back in after being gone because I wanted to be a part of it right away.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But it.

[B]

Oh, I was just like a bull in a china shop. Yeah. I would just get home and, well, this is how it should. What about all this? And then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

About the time we'd get kind of a sen. Calm and stability. Then it'd be like, where are you going, dad? Well, off to the speaking thing. And so what I had to understand is that in some ways, that was very normal for me because that's how I grew up. It wasn't how I wanted my kids to grow up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I said, like, hey, you're going to be the stable person. Because my wife's home all the time. I'm going to be the person kind of dipping in and out. But then that means I'm going to let you do the stuff that's stable.

[A]

Yeah. And really establish those rhythms. And then. Yeah. Come back in and ease out. Well, thanks. This was another great conversation. And we're gonna finish up one more week and we're gonna put all of this together, all of our communication together. So come back.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I hope that you'll come back, too. And remember that we have a free healthy connection guide for you [e-mail] that'll help you discover your own communication path to connect with other podcast listeners. The Together community is a place for private podcast discussion, more connection, and a place to encourage each other to get the app and learn how to join. Go to Candice.com together until next time. Be grateful all day, every day.

[C]

Candy Rock Entertainment. All rights reserved.

[B]

Sam.