What Do You Do After Your Faith Falls Apart? - Jonathan Pokluda

Summary

The Candace Cameron Bure Podcast: What Do You Do After Your Faith Falls Apart? Featuring Jonathan Pokluda

Release Date: June 24, 2025
Host: CandyRock (Candace Cameron Bure)
Guests: Lev Cameron and Jonathan Pokluda

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Introduction: Balancing Life and Faith ([02:32] – [12:13])

The episode kicks off with Candace Cameron Bure and her son Lev Cameron engaging in a heartfelt conversation about balancing personal lives, careers, and faith. They reflect on their own experiences of navigating demanding schedules while maintaining a strong family foundation.

Candace Cameron Bure ([02:36]): "Life is like a roller coaster, but it's better when we go through it together."

Lev shares insights into his past decision to take a decade-long hiatus from acting to prioritize family, emphasizing the importance of being present for their children despite the challenges.

Lev Cameron ([03:08]): "Stepped away from acting to be home with the kids. And at that time, Val was still playing hockey, so he was on the road a lot."

Personal Journeys: Faith, Marriage, and Overcoming Struggles ([12:13] – [28:21])

Candace opens up about her personal journey towards faith and the challenges she faced in her marriage during its early years. She candidly discusses overcoming addictions and finding strength through her relationship with Jesus Christ.

Candace Cameron Bure ([11:03]): "And so year two, she got pregnant. And you know, that was just like, it's... having a baby was that mirror for me. It was like, I am so selfish..."

Lev praises Candace's deep knowledge of scripture and her ability to integrate it seamlessly into daily life, highlighting her role as a spiritual leader within their family and community.

Lev Cameron ([12:18]): "You're leading so many young people... it's incredible. What a testimony."

Deconstructing Faith: Understanding Doubt and Its Implications ([13:07] – [18:17])

The conversation shifts to the concept of deconstruction of faith, a process where individuals reevaluate and often question their religious beliefs. Lev introduces the topic by expressing concerns about the varying definitions and outcomes associated with deconstruction.

Lev Cameron ([13:17]): "When I hear deconstructs, I'm thinking of deconstruction of the church, deconstruction of faith, religion."

Candace elaborates on her own experience with deconstruction, framing it as a natural outcome of doubt and the quest for personal truth. She emphasizes that deconstruction involves stripping away inherited beliefs to rebuild a more authentic faith foundation.

Candace Cameron Bure ([16:13]): "I've been raised in the church... I really came to this place where I have all of these ideologies that were taught to me by people, and I just erased the whiteboard and I said, okay, what is the foundation of what I believe."

Reconstructing Faith: Building on a Solid Foundation ([37:04] – [41:56])

Moving from deconstruction, the discussion focuses on the reconstruction phase—actively rebuilding one's faith on a solid, scripture-based foundation. Candace outlines practical steps for individuals seeking to restore their faith after experiencing doubt.

Candace Cameron Bure ([37:16]): "Find your source of truth. For starters. You've got to find your source of truth. And so I believe it's the scripture, unapologetically, like, I believe the Bible is true."

Lev echoes the importance of community and surrounding oneself with like-minded believers to foster spiritual growth and resilience.

Lev Cameron ([40:02]): "You're going to become the average of your five closest friends."

Candace advises joining a church that prioritizes biblical teaching over superficial attributes, ensuring that one's spiritual gifts are nurtured and utilized effectively.

Candace Cameron Bure ([40:48]): "Find a church that teaches the Bible... they're going to deploy your gifts and go all in there."

Practical Guidance: Steps to Rebuild After Deconstruction ([37:04] – [41:56])

Candace provides actionable advice for listeners undergoing deconstruction, emphasizing the necessity of identifying absolute truths and aligning one's life with them. She discusses overcoming legalism and avoiding adding personal rules to biblical teachings.

Candace Cameron Bure ([37:16]): "Find your source of truth... the Bible is true. I believe it can be trusted."

Lev highlights the significance of faith over intellectual curiosity, stating that certain theological debates do not undermine personal relationships with God.

Lev Cameron ([34:17]): "It doesn't change for me who God is and my relationship with him."

Listener Question: Coping with Loss and Unanswered Prayers ([41:56] – [45:25])

The episode addresses a poignant listener question from Judith, whose friend is struggling with the loss of her unsaved daughter and is questioning the efficacy of prayer. Candace offers compassionate advice, emphasizing the importance of trust in God's sovereignty and the hope that God can work in ways beyond human understanding.

Candace Cameron Bure ([42:25]): "Prayer is not just us asking him for stuff. Prayer is actually us fostering a relationship with him and even listening to him."

Jonathan adds that moments of doubt can be an opportunity to deepen one's faith, suggesting that unresolved questions should be pursued through study and community.

Jonathan Pakluta ([28:48]): "He'll take one little doubt or one little possibility against the Bible and he'll just... spread like wildfires of possible other doubt."

Candace concludes by reinforcing the belief in God's grace and the hope that, even in tragic circumstances, God’s love persists.

Candace Cameron Bure ([43:21]): "I choose to believe that if someone shared the gospel with her and prayed for her, that God, in potentially the very last moments of her life, saved her."

Conclusion: Embracing Faith and Community ([45:25] – [47:06])

As the episode wraps up, Candace and Lev encourage listeners to remain grateful and seek supportive communities to navigate their faith journeys. They reiterate the importance of building relationships grounded in shared beliefs and continuing to seek truth through scripture.

Candace Cameron Bure ([40:48]): "... build a beautiful home."

Lev Cameron ([47:06]): "Yeah."

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This episode provides a deep exploration of faith deconstruction and reconstruction, offering both personal anecdotes and practical advice. Candace Cameron Bure, along with Lev and Jonathan Pakluta, navigates the complexities of doubt, community support, and the unwavering pursuit of spiritual truth, making it a valuable resource for anyone grappling with their faith journey.

Transcript

[Candace Cameron Bure]

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[Lev Cameron]

That's why we chose our kids friends. I first heard about Adele Natural Cosmetics on Ali Bastucky's podcast and I was really eager to try their clean chemical free cosmetics. And let me tell you, I was really impressed by Adele's luxurious heavyweight packaging and high quality products inside. I started off using the Highlighter Glow Glow stick and the Bronzer stick. I absolutely love how creamy and subtle both products are while also lasting all day. Adele carries everything for your daily skin care needs as well as colors, cosmetics and so much more. The newly released moisturizing foundation is rapidly becoming a customer favorite. Can't wait to try it. It's a game changer. Combining the benefits of skin care and makeup all in one convenient stick form. The cream blush is a creamy balm with a glowing pop of color. I cannot wait to try either. Follow Adele on Instagram. That's Dell Natural Cosmetics for lots of tutorials, behind the scenes and encouraging content and use my one time use code for 25% off your first order. Use the code CANDICE for 25% off your first Order. Learning through play starts with Lego Duplo. With Lego Duplo, toddlers can develop real life skills while having fun with colorful bricks made just for them. Large, easy to grip and safe to explore. When children express themselves with Lego Duplo, they build patience, problem solving and empathy. See your child learn perseverance and self expression with everything they imagine and create. Visit lego.com preschool to learn more. Life is like a roller coaster, but it's better when we go through it together. Welcome to the Candace Cameron Bury Podcast. We are in season 10 and we are having such great conversations with my son Lev and my guest co host Jonathan Pakluta, whose newest book is called you'd Story has a Villain. And if you're watching on YouTube, please click to subscribe and make sure you tap the bell so you know when a new video comes out. Come join us.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Come on, come on.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

And we're back.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I've got a question for you guys.

[Lev Cameron]

What?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Like just, I was thinking about this. Well, I talked to Monica last night and so I'm gone. I'm on the road right now and that's like not a. I won't say a point of contention, but it's a, it's something to navigate. And I was like, how did you do that? Like when the kids were younger, how like Were you, were you on the road all the time when they were young or how did that, how did you navigate that?

[Lev Cameron]

So I was always home with them for the first 10 years of their life because I, I took a 10 year break.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So you stepped away from acting.

[Lev Cameron]

Stepped away from acting to be home with the kids. And at that time, Val was still playing hockey, so he was on the road a lot.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Pro hockey.

[Lev Cameron]

Pro hockey, yep. And then, and then when it, it switched, he stayed home and then I went back to work and I started traveling more. And we always felt like as long as one of us was home the majority of the time, like that we were happy with that. And then we, you know, tried not to be away too much, but at this or, you know, I wouldn't. But at the same time, I mean there were definitely seasons where we did not get it right and I was away too much and, and it was hard, probably hard on the kids, hard on Val. And then there were other seasons where it worked really well. It's a weird balance, like, and I, I don't know that anyone gets it perfectly right unless you're just home every day for your kids. But there's always, I feel like there's always going to be resentment to some level and you might not hear it till later. Lev told me one time I was like never there for him and missed all of his hockey games. And I was like, I wasn't like 95% of them remembering the five that I, that I weren't at. And he was like, you weren't there for me. And like, do you still feel like that?

[Jonathan Pakluta]

No. You know, and I think it's, it's like child to child. Like every child wants something different and needs something different. And you know, I think the difficult part that parents probably have to do the difficult work is figuring out what it is for each child. Now that's just my, my, my guess. But I know, I think at least for me it was always important or I felt very loved and special when parents were there for important moments. Yeah, I didn't like, it didn't affect me as much if one parent wasn't there on the day to day. But you know, birthday celebrations, whatever it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Is, I hate it when my parents went to my games.

[Lev Cameron]

You hated it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. So it's a, it's a really interesting because you tend to give people what you want, you know, and, and it's really important to one of our kids that were there. The other ones, the one that's most like me is kind of like, eh, I don't care. But I didn't like it because I just felt so much pressure.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

When they were there. And I was never great at anything athletic, so.

[Lev Cameron]

You know what's so interesting, though, that. That you felt pressure from your parents. And then, like, for me, I felt like if they weren't there watching, I just wanted the pat on the back. So it was like, great job. Great job. Whether I did a great job or not, I just.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So funny how you feel, you know? Like, if I'm at the free throw line, I'm like, man, my parents are here. I'm gonna miss the shot. My. My, like, head. Head talk was not. Self. Talk was not good. But how did you and Val meet?

[Lev Cameron]

We met at a charity hockey game here in LA.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You play hockey?

[Lev Cameron]

He played hockey. And I was 18, Val was 20. And, yeah, it was a Luke Robitaille charity game, and it had celebrities and pros, so Val was one of the pros and his brother. And then Dave Coulier, who played Joey on Full House, He's a big hockey guy. So he was playing in real life.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Or just on the show?

[Lev Cameron]

No, in real life.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Because on the show he was too.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah, because they wrote it in. Because, like, he's a big Detroit Red Wings fan.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Gotcha.

[Lev Cameron]

So guy was playing in that game, and then Bob Saget was, like, the honorary coach on the celebrity side, and John Stamos was there, too. And then Dave invited me and Lori to go watch. So we all, the five of us, just went together to this hockey game. But then Dave introduced me to Val.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. Come on.

[Lev Cameron]

And the rest is history.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Let's go.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So did y' all. Y' all started dating when.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah, we. We literally met on, like, after, like, on an escalator.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

He loves telling that part of the story. He loves it. He's like, I was going up. Your mom was going down. I told her to wait, stop. And he's like, lev, if I didn't turn around and go down that escalator, you would not be here.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Wow. I love it.

[Lev Cameron]

It was so cute. Yeah. So he went back down, and he was like, give me your number. And I wrote my number on a blank check back in the day. So I was like, here you go. Gave him a blank check.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's a big flex.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Hey, here's a blank ch.

[Lev Cameron]

I didn't even realize it. I was just so nervous. I'd never given my phone number to.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Any guy on the check because, like, you know, the. In the on checks, it has a Phone number on it. Totally used to.

[Lev Cameron]

Totally. But he called me the next morning at like 10am he was like, can we go to lunch?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's.

[Lev Cameron]

Sure. So we did. And then. Yes.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

The rest is history.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Made it.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

I mean, into the scene somehow, some way. But we're here.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Come on. That's great. I love it.

[Lev Cameron]

How did you and Monica meet?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

My. She was my best friend's sister.

[Lev Cameron]

Oh.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yes. I wasn't a good guy in college. And so he and I were running buddies and just doing all the terrible college things.

[Lev Cameron]

Huh.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And one time. I mean, obviously, it's a terrible story. I was. We were at a party and I was, like, giving him a hard time. I was like, hey, you should invite your sister. And I had never met her. And I was like, you should invite your sister over here. And he did. And I have no idea why. It doesn't even make sense. But he did. And so she comes to the party and I was like, what? That's your sister? And. And so then I would just give him a hard time about it all the time. Again, I'm a bad guy. I'm thinking about last episode. Like, I'm. I'm the guy that needs the gospel, you know?

[Lev Cameron]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And. And so, you know, we. We started dating at first, secretly. This is a terrible story.

[Lev Cameron]

To hide it from her brother.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. And. And so then secret love. Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

Okay, maybe not. I don't know.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Maybe you were, I don't know, lover, you know, Romeo and Juliet. But anyways, so we start dating and we date for a while and I really, like. Then it kind of all comes to light. But he and I. So then we're estranged.

[Lev Cameron]

Oh, whoa.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, it doesn't go well.

[Lev Cameron]

Was he more mad that you didn't tell him or that you were. Were dating her? Because he didn't like you dating his sister.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

He didn't like me dating his sister. And again, I wasn't a good guy, so it made sense. But he saw a change in me because I was. I was, you know, in. Stayed in that relationship, which was not my mouth. And then I was at a club 22 years ago and someone invited me to church and I went hungover. I sat in the back row, smelled like smoke from the night before, you know? And I started wrestling with what do I Believe About God. And I started studying world religions because I was like, I've got to figure this out. And kept tripping over Jesus. And I went to Monica. And so she was raised in church of Christian Science and I was raised Catholic. And So we both had a little bit of Jesus and a lot of other things. And I said, hey, what do you believe? And she actually articulated the gospel. She was like, I believe Jesus died for my sins and raised from the dead, something like that. And I said, that's what I believe. Let's build on that foundation. And so we started going to church together. And I was messy. Like, she would come up and stay with me and we would go to church and we would go out to the club the night before, and then we go to church Sunday morning. And. And as we did that, I was like, hey, you know, I think we've got to cut out the physical stuff, you know, And. And she was so ready for that conversation. Like, she was like, man, I. She wanted to do the right things. And. And so we started pursuing Jesus. And really, like four months later, I proposed. And then four months after that, we were married.

[Lev Cameron]

Wow.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. So it was, it was really clunky. And the first year was like, amazing. And year two, the wheels fell off. It was like, how do we do this? Because I was just. I mean, I had never been in a committed relationship. I was recovering porn addict, sex addict, alcoholic. I mean, had all these like long list devices. And now I'm okay, I love Jesus, I'm in a marriage. I feel really stuck. And. And so year two, she got pregnant. And you know, that was just like, it's. They say marriage is a mirror to show you how selfish you are. Having a baby was that mirror for me. It was like, I am so selfish because we weren't sleeping. Presley didn't sleep for nine months. She didn't sleep for more than two hours for nine months. We had lost our minds.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And, and so then Community, like last episode, we talked about that Community piece that they really came in and saved our marriage and put the wheels back on. And now we've been married 20, over 20 years.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Let's go.

[Lev Cameron]

Congratulations.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, it's been, it's been amazing.

[Lev Cameron]

That's a great story. I mean, it's a great testimony.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. Praise God. Truly praise God.

[Lev Cameron]

I mean, it's incredible to. Just. When you, when you hear how I said earlier, I. I haven't heard anyone quote the Bible like you have. And just quoting scripture and knowing all the verse, I mean, it just, it just flows out of you in a way that is really impressive to me. Not that you're doing it in a. In a place to impress. It's just you spend time with God, you spend time in God's Word like, you know it. And that's the only way you can know that.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

And so to hear your testimony from where you started.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

To where you are now, and leading so many young people, so many young adults to Christ and people just all over the world in general, and every person that you meet at a coffee shop and sitting on an airplane or whatever, it's incredible. What a testimony.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Thanks for saying that.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah, we. I'm excited about today's topic because we're talking about that. The villain deconstructs.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

In the first. When I hear deconstructs, I'm thinking of deconstruction of the church, deconstruction of faith, religion. Because that has become wildly popular. That word in particular, like, oh, I'm deconstructing my faith. Oh, I grew up a Christian. But I'm deconstructing it now because I'm, what, pulling the threads of all the things that aren't right in it. I mean, tell me what you think that means, because I feel like it does have a different definition depending on who you're talking to. Some people may think it's coming from a healthy place, and then I just see people completely tearing it down.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. I think if we're going to rope in everybody on this word, I mean, it. It is a. It's a product of doubt. So if. If you don't really get your heart around the word deconstruction, I would think in terms of doubt, because everybody who is of faith at some point in their life has struggle with doubt. Now, if you continue, if you do something with that doubt, what people are calling that process today is deconstruction. So even we. We started in a beautiful place. It wasn't planned. I know, but as you think about my own journey, having been raised in the church, I mean, Catholic Church, Lutheran Church, Baptist Church, I had. I had a foot in each of those denominations growing up. I really came to this place where I have all of these ideologies that were taught to me by people, and I just erased the whiteboard and I said, okay, what is the foundation of what I believe? Well, after I looked at the Hindu faith, the Buddhist faith, the Jewish faith, Islamic faith, Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Church of Christian Science, Scientology, I really came to this place of, like, all right, I believe this is true. This is. This is the foundation of what I believe, which, you know, I had heard the Bible was changed as an example, like, oh, we can't trust that it was. It was changed. Well, I learned as I Studied. Wow. One of the greatest archaeological discoveries to date is the Dead Sea Scrolls. It actually predates the Dark Ages when people said the Bible was changed. And it actually shows us that the Bible hasn't been changed, that what we have today is very reliable to the. To the original text. And they. You people will say, well, there's lots of different versions out there. The niv, the nasb, the esv, the nlt, the King James, the new King James. Yeah. But I started looking at all those different versions and realized they all essentially teach the same thing. The version is really just a sentence structure that King James, for example, is written in, like almost Elizabethan or Shakespearean. And so you get rid of some of the eths and the eths, if you will, and see. Oh, it essentially says the same thing that the ESV does, which is just a different sentence structure and with a different. It gives different observations to words, but it teaches the same thing as the niv, which is so similar to the nasb. And when you begin to realize that, like, oh, wow, the message of the Bible hasn't changed, The. The versions don't teach different ideas. Yeah. They were just translated from Hebrew and Greek and a little bit of Aramaic. And so.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Wow.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I came to this place where I was like, I think I trust this as if there's a God, a creator of the heavens and the earth, and he's going to give us some kind of instruction. It makes sense that I think that that is the Bible and you have other options. The Gita, the Quran, there's other holy books. But I came to a place where it's like, you know what I believe it's the Scripture, the Holy Bible. And so that became the foundation that I built on, which is why I know those verses, not because I memorized them. I mean, there was one short season where I grabbed like 10 verses and tried to commit them to memory. But other than that, it's just living in this, teaching it for. For over a decade now. And, and, and so that. That was my reconstruction, which is what I will tell your listeners and viewers. If you deconstruct, you have to reconstruct.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I'm from Waco, and so there's a couple there that they're known for fixing up. House.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Fixer Uppers is the show. It was a TV show, and, and so they. There's something there called Demo Day, which is when they go into an old house and they start to tear out the walls. And they tear it, take it down to the studs and move Walls and. And reconstruct. You cannot stay at demo day. You know, you have to at some point say, all right, I'm going to rebuild now because your story has a villain. And as you deconstruct, that's when the demons come around and they say, all right, this is our moment. This is our chance. This is when they're vulnerable. Let's try to lead them towards some rogue ideology, some rogue theology. We are all. We can all be conspiracy theorists. We. We want to buy into, you know, the Da Vinci Code or some weird idea out there, some false ideology.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You know, the stars or tarot cards or anything. The horoscope, anything that will. Will put us in the position to be God, because that's the satanic spirit on the land. Don't worship God. Seek to be God.

[Lev Cameron]

Right.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

I love that. It reminds me of one of my favorite books of all time by C. S. Lewis. It's called the Great Divorce. And in it there's a quote, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he says something in the same way that thirst was made for water, in inquiry is made for truth.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Wow.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

And, you know, we were given this. This sense of being thirsty so that we would find water. And I love that. You know, our sense of curiosity, our sense of inquiry should bring us to a place where we want to find truth. I think I agree. That's what's missed, is there's a lot of deconstruction, but there's no reconstruction. And the whole reason God has given us an ability to be curious, to be inquisitive, is ultimately to find him and his truth.

[Lev Cameron]

When I scroll through TikTok and I hashtag deconstruction, most of the. The feed that I see come through are people that have deconstructed, stripped down their faith, but then have felt like it's just all lies.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

So they're just like, it was all a lie. It was all bs. I don't believe it anymore. This is what the church tried to teach me. I believed it for 20 years, and now I'm gonna do my life my way. But how does. How does that happen?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's. It's born out of legalism. So I'll give you a passage. It's 1st Timothy 4. It says the. The spirit clearly says that in the latter times. Let's call this the latter times. This was written 2000 years ago. Some will abandon the faith, Hashtag, tick, tock, and follow deceiving spirits. Okay, now we're talking about the Demonic and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars whose consciences have been seared with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abandon. To abstain from certain foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe, who know the truth. For everything God created is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. And then he goes on to say, if you point these things out. But, so there's, there's something taught by demonic spirits or deceiving spirits. It's rules that are extra biblical. So we talked about legalism, but I don't know that we've defined it. Legalism is when you add instruction to what the scripture says and you make it universal. Here's an example. I could say, it's not good for me to have a TV in my bedroom. You know, that's not, that's not, that lacks accountability. I don't really trust myself. I shouldn't have a TV in my bedroom. That's fine. That's a wisdom principle. If I say, you can't be a Christian and have a TV in your bedroom, well, now we're in legalism, legalistic territory. I've taken the scripture and I've added to it. So what was happening here is they say, well, you can't get married or you, you need to abstain from these foods. Now you can say, like, listen, I'm going to do keto. I'm going to diet. I'm, I'm not going to eat these kinds of foods. But you can't say, the Bible says you can't.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You know, the Bible says you need to lower, lower your carbs. The Bible says. Because that would be. Or you can't be a Christian and eat carbs. That would be legalistic. Legal. That would be legalistic. And so a lot of times people deconstruct because they were raised in, in a faith where they had these really strict rules or they, they found out, they start to read this for themselves and they realize I've been doing these things only because someone told me to. And that was a part of my story. As I, as I realized some of the faith that I, some of the denominational beliefs that I grew up in, I couldn't find them in the Scripture, right? And I was like, wait, I'm not going to keep doing that. I don't, I don't know why I'm doing that. And so I see, I started to deconstruct. But what's happening, Candace, is, you know, the as. As they are led astray, and they look at what they. They feel so angry by a person. People. People have church hurt. No one has church hurt. They have a person who hurt them. You know, if you're out there and you're watching, you're listening, you're like, the church hurt me. You have to identify who in the church hurt you, because the church is a really big institution. And it wasn't the institution that hurt you. It was a person, a representative. And you have a process to. To reconcile to that person or to at least tell that person that they hurt you. But you don't want to hide behind this banner of, like, the church. The. The billions of people on earth that represent the church hurt me. That. That wouldn't be true. That wouldn't be intellectually honest. But a lot of people sit there and it gives them the excuse they need to run and to go do the own. The thing that they want to do, which is really what I think we're all after. That's that satanic spirit.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah, that's.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I want to do what I want to do.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah, I like that you explained church heart that way also, because I hear that word so much.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So it comes down to these. These five questions is what I would challenge people to ask is, is God real? Is God powerful? Is God good? Is God for me? And then the last one is that church hurt. Can I trust God's people? And you know, or you might even say, should I surround myself with God's people? But I would just say, man, if God is good and God is powerful and God loves you, that's an unbelievable equation to get to your peace. God is good. God controls everything, and he's crazy about me. What am I going to worry about then? You know, God is good plus God loves me plus God is powerful equals my peace. I'm going to operate. I'm going to go through this world, and I'm going to say, okay, what is God's purpose for my life? And I'm going to do it. And I'm going to have peace. And I'm asleep like a baby at night because I'm loved by the creator of the heavens, the earth, and he controls everything. And he. And he's. And he's good, you know, so let's go.

[Lev Cameron]

Hi, friends. I know life can feel heavy at times, and we all need reminders of God's love and strength. So mark your calendars. My devotional 100 Days of Joy and Strength will be available on June 24, but you can pre order now. My friends at Zondervan created a fresh new edition just for you. This devo has daily encouragement, Bible verses and prayer prompts to help you stay grounded and hopeful even when life is tough. And there's more good news coming this October, my brand new devotional Rise and Renew comes out. Are you in? Join me on this 100 day journey of faith. Check out the link in the show Notes to order yours today and remember it's coming to stores on June 24th. I don't know about you, but I love to colorfully mark up my Bible. And Mr. Pen is the company dedicated to creating pens and highlighters specifically to be used in your Bible. How cute is this? The ink doesn't bleed through the page and there are so many color palettes to choose from paired with their other products like transparent sticky tape, Stick sticky notes and tabs and washi tape and you can create the perfect combinations to make studying Scripture an even more meaningful experience. With over 1 million 5 star reviews on Amazon, they are the most popular Bible highlighters and pens on the market. That's why I use them. Whether you're looking to deepen your faith through study and reflection or or simply need a reliable pen for taking notes During a sermon, Mr. Penn has you covered. To get 10 off your first Mr. Pen order, go to candicepens.com Join me in diving into the Word in 2025. Go to candicepens.com to get 10 off your Mr. Pen order. Grand Canyon University, a private Christian university in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, believes that we're endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. GCU equips you to serve others in ways that promote human flourishing and create a ripple effect of transformation for generations to come. Matthew 5:16 says, in the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give good glory to your Father who is in heaven. By honoring your career calling, you impact your family, your friends and your community. Whether your pursuit involves a bachelor's, master's, or doctoral degree, GCU's online on campus and hybrid learning environments are designed to help you achieve your unique academic, personal and professional goals. Find your purpose at Grand Canyon University Private christian affordable visit gcu.edu I think maybe we talked about this in a couple episodes ago, but I mean, either of you could answer this and you. You talked about looking into everything, stripping, stripping away all the things that you were raised in and then going, I'm just gonna read the Bible and find it for myself. But I want to know from you, Lev, was there ever a moment of real doubt about God in your life? Or have you always. Has faith always come naturally to you?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

No.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

And I think for me personally, one of the things I want to grow in more of as a Christian is faith. And there's been lots of moments of doubt. A lot of that for me comes from, you know, very philosophical or intellectual arguments that will compete with the Bible. And it's. It's not that some of those arguments even, you know, win, for lack of a better term, but they just make you think.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Sure.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

And I think that's the way even the enemy can work with deconstruction, is he'll take one little doubt or one little possibility against the Bible and he'll just. You know, that thought will sow a seed and it'll spread like wildfires of possible other doubt. And so, you know, what we mentioned in past episodes, like, ironically, my greatest struggles with doubt were when I was studying the Bible more intimately than I ever have in my life.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

What was it? Do you remember what it was that you began to wrestle with?

[Jonathan Pakluta]

So it started with actually a class about creation. And so I grew up with. With a one view of creation. And the class would present all the different possibilities that Christians have taken about creation over the years.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And it was theistic evolution.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Exactly, evolution. You know, young earth versus old earth. It just presented all the options. And then it kind of just made me think, like, man, if there's like so much diversity in belief about this one little thing, like, what does that say for the rest of the Bible as well and its validity and its truth? And. And I went on a whirlwind of emotion and doubt, and it really just made me think. But to bring it back, I think the point I got back to was being rooted and secure in those foundational beliefs and working from there.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, there's a. There's a contradiction in the Scripture. It talks about King Jehai Johaikin. One place it says he's 8 years old when he became king. Another place it says he's 18 when he became king. I found this early in my studies. I was like 8 and 18. And I just thought, there it is. Like, I've disproved the Bible. Like, there's a mistake, there's an error right there. I'm the first person to find it, you know, in my naivety.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And I just thought it can't be trusted. And somebody was like, hey, I bet, I bet you somebody has written about that. Lo and behold, there's like libraries of books written about, articles. I mean, so many people have, have found this, talked about it and it just showed me like, wow, there's nothing new under the sun. And there's really good explanations for this, you know, why this happened, why it's there. And I think that's so often our doubt. If we can narrow it down to a question and then ask the question, like that's all you have to do is like, identify. A lot of people just get stuck. They're like, I don't even know what my questions are. That can be a demonic spirit. Like that can be something that the enemy, it says really what is characteristic of the enemy in scripture is he seeks to confuse people. He seeks to blind minds. And so when we're sitting there and like we can't even find what our question is, it's a good indicator that the enemy might be at work. But if you can identify what your questions are, like, hey, is it six day creation? Is it tectonic plates? Is it, you know, there's, there's other theories of a global flood. What about evolution? What about Darwin? Didn't Darwin teach that we all came from monkeys? Or how does that fit in the, you know, Genesis 1 and 2 narrative? Like, you're not gonna be the first person to ask these questions. And you have to understand there's brilliant people. Like, we all have to intellectually grasp that there is someone much smarter than each of us that believes different than usual. I can take William Lane Craig, brilliant mind who's going to disagree with Richard Dawkins, another brilliant mind. Both brilliant minds of our day. Right now. Wesley Huff is a brilliant apologist, Canada. You know, he can debate brilliant scientists, you know, an atheist. And, and at the end of the day there's smart people who disagree. And so we have to individually do the work and, and come to this place. You might say, well, we don't have the original manuscript. The original Bible doesn't exist. It's like, yeah, but you got to understand, the more ancient manuscripts we have, the more they prove that, that the text that we have is accurate and, and true to what the original document said. Because we have over 20,000, you know, manuscripts, ancient manuscripts that we can, we can look at. And the more we find, the more accurate it gets, the more, the more it shows that, oh, the Bible is true, that it can be the, it can be trusted. It is true to the original text. So you just have to identify your question and ask. And there's great resources out there like yeah, got questions that org or harm carm.org and probe Dawg, which is backed by scientists. So lots of resources and then sometimes.

[Lev Cameron]

There'S certain topics and for me I'm like, I just don't care. Does it really make a difference, Monica? Does it make a difference in my faith walk if I believe in a six day or a seven day creation, is it going to change something about God that I do don't already know in a way that I have relationship with him? And for me I'm like, nope. A curiosity factor might be like, oh, I'd like to just know a little bit about that so I have some understanding. But it doesn't deeply affect my faith if I know those, if I have certain opinions on even I can we talk about like Calvinism and Armenianism all the time. Because it's just a fun conversation.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Most moms and sons do, right?

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Yeah, exactly.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

That's pretty normal. Yeah, yeah, we're sushi. So Jacob Arminians.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

No, I think.

[Lev Cameron]

But at the end of the day I'm just like, it doesn't change for me who God is and my relationship with him and my desire to honor him, to please him, to read my Bible, to know him, like all of those things.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think that's, it's important to note that we're all like, God wired us different. We're all products of our upbringing where we were born to the family, we were born to our religious upbringing. And so everybody's going to come to this place of like, man, I've just kind of taken this because it was fed me and now I need to make my faith my own. Maybe, you know, maybe you weren't fed anything. And now you say, okay, I need to figure out what I actually believe. But I, I think a lot of deconstruction is born out of feeling weird amongst Christians. And I'll give you an example. Like, like I love sunsets. I'm a big sunset guy. I mean I'm, I'm chasing sunsets. So I try to like take that in Lev.

[Lev Cameron]

Love sunsets.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

I mean, truly, like I, I was, we're, we're here in LA and I'm like, I don't care where we eat, but I need to, I'm here with a friend. Like we need to eat somewhere where I can see the sun sunset, you know, because it just stirs my affections for God. I've Got another friend. And he just, like, he just sees a ball of fire. And it's not beautiful to him. It doesn't stir anything in him. He's an engineer. He sees the world in ones and zeros, you know, and code and that kind of thing.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And so if I. If I say, like, look, don't you see God in that sunset? Then he feels weird, and that may drive toward a deconstruction. So to understand the manifold wisdom of God that there's diversity, we see this in 1st Corinthians 12, that. That some people are eyes and some people are ears and people are hands and some people are feet making up the body of Christ. And we all have different leanings and inclinations and wirings. And so as we. As you piece us together, we actually make the body of Christ, as in our gifts, operate in different ways. And so as you deconstruct, think, hey, how did God make me? How did he wire me? And how did he wire me to do. To. To live out my faith? Because if I can partner with someone different than me now we're strengthening. We're strengthening the church as we fight the enemy that exists here in the world, the villain.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Yeah, that's good. I love that. Even then, once you get to that place where you can approach that conversation humbly, that, you know, we all do look at things differently. I think that, you know, it even brings beauty to our eyes in ways that we haven't seen before when we get to have it explained or seen through the perspective of others.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

So let's talk practically a little bit. For someone that has. Is deconstructing. You said what you have to do after the demo day.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Lev Cameron]

Is now rebuild it.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Right.

[Lev Cameron]

So what are. What are some of the best ways to do that?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Find your source of truth. For starters. You've got to find your source of truth. And so I believe it's the scripture, unapologetically, like, I believe the Bible is true. I believe it can be trusted. I believe it tells us about the character of God. I believe it tells us how to have a right relationship with God through his son, Jesus Christ. I believe it tells us how to treat each other. The greatest commandment, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And the second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. It teaches a charitable way to live. There's something out there called Pascal's Wager, which is to say, like, if I'm talking to an atheist, and I say if. If you're right and I'm wrong, then, then ultimately I've just lived according to the Bible and I've lived an amazing life. I've loved people well, like I've, you know, and then we both die and we both end up in the ground and we both were worm food and we rot, you know, but if I'm right and you're wrong, you know, then, then you've lived a life that is, tends to be a little bit more self absorbed. But when you die, you suffer the greatest consequence and I inherit a kingdom, you know, to be with God in paradise. And so it costs you nothing to go my way, but it could potentially cost me everything to go your way.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Wow.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And so that's that whole Pascal's wager thing. And so I think you have to figure out for yourself, you have to do the homework, you have to put in the work, like, what is it that I believe? What's the foundation of, of my truth? And if you're, I say my truth. Absolute truth.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Because we live in a time where.

[Lev Cameron]

It'S like everyone has their own truth.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

My truth and her truth and his truth. And you know, so it's not my truth, it's what is absolute truth. And then you begin to construct on it. And here's. I can promise you this, I don't want to bait and switch you. You're going to run into something that's going to be really inconvenient for you, like meaning your life, the trajectory of your life. It's going to bump up against something where you're like, oh, that has to change. My, my buying habits may need to change. My, my dating life may need to change. The way that I live with my spouse, the way that I treat them may need to change. The way that I interact with my co worker. It may need to change that. My work ethic may need to change. But that's not where we start. That's going to come later. Where we start is like, do I believe Christ died for my sins? Do I believe that God raised him from the dead? You have to answer that question. And so as you start that, that as you find, identify truth, then you say, all right, where are the people that believe according to that and how do I surround myself with them? First Corinthians 15:33 says, do not be deceived. Bad company corrupts good character. And so I, you know, brilliant psychologists, I mean atheist psychologists have said you're going to become the average of your five closest friends.

[Lev Cameron]

Right.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

So I want to make sure that I surround myself with people who believes similar to me, I can still.

[Lev Cameron]

That's why we chose our kids. Friends.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

It's partly.

[Lev Cameron]

But. But partly true. Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

No, it's. It's true. I mean, and you know, parents, if I can give you some advice, it would be, learn to say no. There's something about today where I think parents feel like they can't say no. It's like, you can say no. I mean, say no ice cream. You know, have a. Make your house fun. I mean, laugh.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Play games like, enjoy. But you can say no.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And so, you know, find those people. Yoke yourself to them. I would say, like, meaning become a member of a church that teaches the word.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And. And now you're building up, you know, now you're reconstructing. You're moving walls and you're putting where they need to be, and you're making a beautiful home.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah. I want to do another episode on finding the right church help. Because, I mean, I have a great church, but even. Even with the kids and helping them as they go on their own and they move just to find the right church. Church in discerning good teaching and kind of fluffy Christian stuff. Anyway, that's for another episode.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

If you find the perfect church, don't go there. You'll ruin it because you're imperfect. But find a church that teaches the Bible. I mean, it's really. It's this episode. It's just like, go back to the things we talked about that they're. They're building on the foundation of God's word and they hold it in high regard. And, you know, you may not like the music. You may not like the length of the sermon. You may not like the comfort of the chairs or the temperature or how loud the music is, but find a church that teaches the truth and that they're going to deploy your gifts there, you know, because you have spiritual gifts. And so they're going to deploy your gifts and go all in there.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah. Great advice. Okay, onto our listener question. This is from Judith. Hey, Judith. She writes in I have a friend. Oh. Who recently lost her daughter, who was an adult. The daughter was not saved, and my dear friend had been praying desperately for her salvation. She's dealing with the thought, why pray anymore? Since God did not answer that prayer for her daughter, how can I help her?

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah. Wow. Judith, your friend. You know, one of the examples of God's grace to your friend is you, Judith. That she has someone that loves her so much that she would, you know, reach out through the. The website to a podcast and ask a question that we can discuss it today. And I think sometimes, often people wrestle with, why pray? If you really understand the sovereignty of God, you know, why pray? And I would, I would start Here back to C.S. lewis in Chronicles of Narnia. He says, because I think he likes it. And I think we lose the, the personal nature of God, that we're his children. And as a mama, you know this. As a daddy, I know this. Like, I love when my kids talk to me. Like, I, I love, like, I, I just, you know, one of the, my greatest regrets, I guarantee it right now, when they leave home is going to be this dumb phone that I, I've at times put in front of them. And I'm so sorry if my kids hear this. Like, I always want to put that away when they're like, daddy, let's talk. Let me put my phone away. Let's talk. What do you want to talk about? Because I, I want to talk to my kids.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

I.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

And God wants us to talk with him. Prayer is not just us asking him for stuff. Prayer is actually us fostering a relationship with him and even listening to him. And then I would say, the hope that I would give to your friend is we don't know what happened in those last moments of life in the, in the, in the, you know, the drift towards the next life in the, in the unconscious. I don't know if it was a immediate, you know, car accident or if it was a slow drift from cancer drifting into coma. I don't know how your friend's daughter passed away, but I, I, I believe that. I, I choose to believe, and I don't think it's naive. And people are gonna, my critics are gonna say, that's so naive. I'm gonna say, no. I choose to believe that if someone shared the gospel with her and prayed for her, that, that God, in potentially the very last moments of her life, saved her. And so that's how I share the gospel. When I shared the gospel with the Uber driver last night. I believe that God's going to save him. And I don't think that's a naive position. It's. What I see in the scripture is as we are faithful to share, God is faithful to save, and we don't always get to see that. And those are some of the most difficult situations to minister, because death is this moment where I don't believe in inclusivism. Some say C.S. lewis did. He's much smarter than I am. But I don't believe in inclusivism. I don't believe we're, we're, we're given a choice after death. I believe this life is what we have. And, and this is our opportunity to choose Christ. And so if you're hearing this, I just implore you with anything I can and everything I am, choose Christ.

[Lev Cameron]

Amen. Thank you guys.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Yeah, it's a good conversation.

[Lev Cameron]

It's a great conversation.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Heavy, but good.

[Lev Cameron]

Yeah. And we'll be back next week, so join us. We also made a free PDF download this season called the no Fear guide. Go to Candice.com to find the link and ask a question while you're there. And a reminder, if you're watching on YouTube, click to subscribe. That really helps us. And then tap the bell so you don't miss a release. Until next time. Be grateful all day, every day. Candy Rock Entertainment. All rights reserved. When you hear Lululemon, you probably think of aligned yoga pants. Weightlessly soft, like you're wearing next to nothing. That's why you see them in class, at the grocery store and in the park. But did you know about skirts with built in liner shorts so you can still jump for the Frisbee and tanks and bodysuits with Align's iconic stretch, you won't want to take it off. And with endless style options, you don't have to shop in store or [e-mail].

[Jonathan Pakluta]

I think you're on mute.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

Workday starting to sound the same. I think you're on mute.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn with LinkedIn job collections.

[Candace Cameron Bure]

You can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you can find the right job for you.

[Jonathan Pakluta]

Get [e-mail] jobs finding where you fit. LinkedIn knows how.

[Lev Cameron]

To.