692 - Jimmy Swaggart - part two

Summary

Summary of The Dollop Episode 692 - Jimmy Swaggart (Part Two)

Release Date: July 15, 2025

In this compelling second part of their deep dive into the life and controversies of televangelist Jimmy Swaggart, hosts Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds unravel the intricate web of Swaggart's rise, scandal, and enduring impact on American religious broadcasting.

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Swaggart’s Ascendancy in the 1980s

The episode kicks off by highlighting Jimmy Swaggart's meteoric rise within the realm of televangelism during the mid-1980s. By 1985, Swaggart had cemented his status as one of the most influential televangelists in the United States, boasting a weekly television audience of 2.1 million viewers and overseeing a Ministry complex valued at $100 million. With a workforce of 1,500 employees and the establishment of a Christian college, Swaggart was at the zenith of his influence.

Dave Anthony [04:11]: "So Mozambique and Angola made the mistake of overthrowing colonial rule and installing socialist governments while having tons of natural resources. That's obviously. Well not how you do it."

The Emergence of Scandal

As Swaggart's empire flourished, cracks began to appear. The hosts recount how Swaggart's lavish lifestyle and unchecked power set the stage for personal misconduct. In a significant turn of events, it was revealed that Swaggart had been involved with Deborah Murphy, a sex worker, marking a severe breach of the moral standards he publicly espoused.

Dave Anthony [06:19]: "So now it turns out Jimmy has been seeing a sex worker."

Gareth Reynolds [07:14]: "She's trying to keep it. He's trying to be as clean as possible."

The scandal intensified when Deborah publicly exposed their illicit relationship, leading to widespread media coverage and a series of interviews on national talk shows such as Donahue, Larry King, and Geraldo. Her revelations not only tarnished Swaggart's reputation but also shook the foundations of his ministry.

Dave Anthony [29:23]: "So this is, this is where you're talking about the. Our culture being dog."

Public Apologies and Institutional Fallout

In response to the mounting pressure, Swaggart delivered his infamous "I Have Sinned" speech on February 21, 1988. Speaking from his church's pulpit, he publicly admitted to sinful behavior without disclosing specific details, which left many questioning the sincerity of his repentance.

Dave Anthony [22:54]: "So now I'm gonna speed it up. I'm going to go forward like three minutes."

The Assembly of God’s executive presbytery reacted by suspending Swaggart's ministry for three months, later extending the suspension to a year and mandating two years of counseling. However, Swaggart refused to comply with the extended suspension, citing potential financial ruin to his television ministry and college.

Dave Anthony [28:48]: "He just takes people's money and lies to him."

Legal and Financial Turmoil

The controversy didn't end with personal scandals. Swaggart's ministry faced significant financial strain as lawsuits mounted. In July 1991, Marvin Gorman, Swaggart's rival, sued him for $90 million in defamation. Although the case initially favored Gorman, both parties eventually settled out of court for $1.85 million, further depleting Swaggart’s financial resources.

Gareth Reynolds [48:56]: "He just got 1.8 million. That's pretty good."

Additionally, in 2000, a ministry employee, John Clauser, was charged with embezzling $750,000, exacerbating the financial woes of Swaggart's operations.

Dave Anthony [58:49]: "He got 15 years."

Continued Influence and Decline

Despite the scandals and financial setbacks, Swaggart continued his televangelist activities, albeit with a significantly reduced audience. By November 1990, his weekly television viewership had plummeted from 2 million to just 400,000. Nevertheless, Swaggart maintained a dedicated base of followers, illustrating the resilience and complexity of his influence within certain religious communities.

Gareth Reynolds [44:50]: "He was just the most Republican off-putting comedian to me."

Swaggart's ministry attempted to diversify and sustain itself by engaging in ventures like music, leading to his induction into the Delta Music Museum Hall of Fame in 2002 alongside relatives Jerry Lee Lewis and Mickey Gilly.

Final Years and Legacy

In the years leading up to his passing, Swaggart faced additional controversies, including derogatory remarks about LGBTQ+ individuals and failed philanthropic promises post-Hurricane Katrina. Despite these setbacks, his ministry continued to sell religious merchandise and produce gospel music, albeit under much diminished circumstances. Swaggart ultimately died on July 1, 2025, after a prolonged struggle with heart disease, leaving behind a complicated legacy marked by both his contributions to televangelism and his personal failings.

Dave Anthony [60:08]: "He created Jimmy Swaggart Ministries in Baton Rouge. He lost some broadcast and merch rights."

Conclusion

Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds provide a thorough examination of Jimmy Swaggart’s tumultuous journey from a revered televangelist to a figure mired in scandal and legal battles. Through a blend of historical analysis and sharp commentary, the episode underscores the enduring impact of Swaggart’s actions on American religious broadcasting and the broader cultural landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dave Anthony [14:00]: "Another Deborah client was a cop named Gorman, who happened to be Reverend Marv and Gorman's son."
• Gareth Reynolds [27:36]: "We gave it you like an easy out, dude."
• Dave Anthony [29:37]: "Reverse cowgirl. Do you mind doing a couple of those for us?"
• Gareth Reynolds [42:17]: "So he was really acting. That's 100% acting. It's all acting."

Please note that timestamps are approximate and correspond to the provided transcript.

Transcript

[Dave Anthony]

You're listening to the Dollop. This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read his story from American history to my favorite.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Christian, Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic has it gotta be about.

[Dave Anthony]

Permission to treat my coast as hostile?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No. Permission tonight version. The host, the co host took the ball and did great.

[Dave Anthony]

Permission granted. Jesus Christ. No, you don't get to do the Christian voice and then immediately say Jesus Christ using the Lord's name in vain.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm in the green room. I'm allowed to be me.

[Dave Anthony]

So we're going on tour. You can go to dollpodcast.com to check out that sweet, sweet information. It'll be all Midwestern cities in October. Gareth may be alive then.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I will have just been there. My. I might live. I might move to the Midwest for October. Are we doing a Halloween show?

[Dave Anthony]

Are we?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, think of how spooky it could be.

[Dave Anthony]

I think. I think we aren't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think we should.

[Dave Anthony]

No. I can't imagine doing so spooky, though.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dude. How spooky would that be? Dude, we're doing one in Denver on the 30th. That's a Halloween show. We will be in costume. We will be in costume.

[Dave Anthony]

I won't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Denver, October 30th. You're at the end of the run. We will have been driving from Kansas City the day before. We'll be out of our minds in costumes. Denver costumes.

[Dave Anthony]

We're going to wear our most offensive colonization.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no, no. Why you ruining fun?

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so we are back in with Jimmy Swagger has essentially risen up through the ranks, and he's a massive televangelist, the biggest in the country. He's eliminated other televangelists to grow his audience. He's peak. He's peak swagger. It's 1985, I think he's got swag. He has TV audience of 2.1 million. Ministries complex that's worth 100 million. He's got 1500 employees. He has a college. So he is tearing it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

College is the. When you have the college, that's when.

[Dave Anthony]

You'Re like, yeah, that's all right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm. I'm pretty good now.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. F's got a college. He's got a college. Yeah, yeah. They're. They're loving it at that point. So Swagger, like a lot of other us born again, actively supported reo, which is the Mosam Mozambican National Resistance. You knew that. You knew that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, what?

[Dave Anthony]

I have to tell you that what's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Great is I'VE heard this one before. What is this?

[Dave Anthony]

It's a REO or Ronamo, probably Ronamo. It is a very anti communist political and militant group in the 15 year Mozambique Civil war.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I'll tell you, if, if people ever figure out that there's a lot of good in communism, there's going to be a lot of reckoning to do.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Con men, like televangelists savagely attack communism because they're fucking con men.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, it really is the ideology version of heavy metal. They just keep being like, don't, don't get involved there. You'd be in a lot of trouble if you try communism.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who.

[Dave Anthony]

So Mozambique and Angola made the mistake of overthrowing colonial rule and installing socialist governments while having tons of natural resources. That's obviously. Well not how you do it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nobody needs more freedom than the places with, with resources.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They. They need to be democratized.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In the way that we see fit. And for people who don't know what that version of democracy is, that's where we put a. In charge, will do whatever we say and give us everything. And then you're going to be probably like. There'll be like, like a slave market at some point.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, that. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. It's called free.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, that sounds freedom. A Marxist group wanted to form a one party state out of Angola, Mozambique and Guinea Basu. And war started. Now Renamo were accused of systematic war crimes and killing many civilians.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

So of course they were supported by right wing Christian organizations because who doesn't love killing more than right wing Christian organizations in the U.S. one was called Child Care Ministries to which Jimmy is a huge donor.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

Now remember when he got the. I was just going to say estate funds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. He's got all that money. So thrice widow.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. This really rich widow dies, she leaves him a bunch of money. One of those things are oil wells and he gets 100,000amonth. But he has to give it all to Child Ministries.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I will tell you, we have got to rise up. We have got the drama harder.

[Dave Anthony]

It's just. I just said it again and every time I hear it, I just. It's the craziest. Yeah, so. Because that was the, that was the court solution, like whatever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

I can't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So we have come to a determination that we think everyone will find appropriate.

[Dave Anthony]

So he's promoting Ramo on TV and a photo taken at a Romo base showed piles of religious books and most of them are swaggered books. So he's taking the hundred thousand dollars and just cranking out books and sending them to Africa. Like Jesus just like, just the worst people. What about food?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You NBA championship runner up jerseys, right?

[Dave Anthony]

You could be sending clothes, food, medicine, like you know, the basics. Survive. Or you can send him books, which.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is so again it's like, so they, it's like the idea that they always are asking like what would Jesus do? And it's like, well what the you think he'd do? Like what would he do? It would be food. It would be food. Survival items.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. So now it turns out Jimmy has been seeing a sex worker.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave.

[Dave Anthony]

Her name was Deborah Murphy with two E not a Y. So already.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So not a Murphy Bed.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm Murphy Bed already. I'm. I think she's ridiculous.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah, Murphy.

[Dave Anthony]

He picked her up on the street.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boy, that's so careless for a guy, right? So much to lose.

[Dave Anthony]

Like why would you just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Although.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so there's no Internet, right? Yeah, there's ads. There's definitely ads in, in like your weekly magazines, like your SF weekly, the, the, the like independent newspapers in every city. Paper trails in the back paper trail. But you can just call them and go, hey, yeah. I don't know how else you would find one back then. I'm sure there were other.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Ways harder for sure. Much harder than now. But anyway, he, he, he picks up a lady who's street walking and he asks her questions to be sure she wasn't a cop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like what?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. What would you ask? Hello, Are you, are you a cop? You could be like, can I see your privates? I don't think a cop would show. So you roll up and you go, may I see your vagina?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that's okay. So there you go. I think we've. It took us a minute but we figured it out.

[Dave Anthony]

Or could I see your boobs?

[Gareth Reynolds]

May I see everything? Yeah, well, I mean, but I mean like, you know, the act itself is like checking for a wire. So you know.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

May I search you for a while?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I don't know what else you'd ask. I mean they have to have been ridiculous questions. Are you a police officer?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

So she gets in her car. In his car. Sorry. And lifts up her skirt, so. Oh, I'm right. Cops aren't supposed to expose themselves to John's. That's entrapment. If they do. Apparently.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. It's just for. It's just. No, but it's just for cops to do now whenever they want.

[Dave Anthony]

Well now cops can a cop can a sex worker now and then arrest them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, because we figured out how the system should be. Like, we've, well, now, like a guy pretending to be a cop can just take someone. So that's a problem that's only going to get worse, and that's good.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. So if a cop shows you their.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Privates, by the way, you know what I'm going to do next time I get pulled over?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I want. May I see your coxer.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, that's fair to make sure. You're asking the cop that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

It's just a traffic stop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

I feel like you're not getting what's going on here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I, I, I think I haven't worked out the perfect version yet, but I do think I'm. Sir, Sir, I believe you to be a police officer. May I see your pe. I think that works. You pull me over, right? You pull me over. You walk up to the window, do the license and registration.

[Dave Anthony]

Sir, can I see your license and registration?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sir, I have a suspicion that you're a police officer. Before I hand you anything, may I see your penis?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. I think this guy's a cop.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. So she said he looked like Jimmy Swaggart. And he said that. Popular, he said. People say that. But his name is actually Billy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm actually, My name is actually my cousin's name. My name. I know two names. I get that all the time.

[Dave Anthony]

My name's actually Billy Lee.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My name is Billy Lee.

[Dave Anthony]

The first time he jerked off in a car. So the first time he sees her, he just, he just jerks it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Great.

[Dave Anthony]

That's, you know. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's great.

[Dave Anthony]

But then he saw her again. Again.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I wonder where he put it.

[Dave Anthony]

The stuff?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Probably on the cup holder. Dash.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Interesting.

[Dave Anthony]

He had her pose naked at first.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And he's really trying to keep it.

[Dave Anthony]

He really.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He really is trying to keep it. He's trying to be as clean as possible.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Then he used a sex toy. He had her use a sex toy on herself. Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I'm gonna bang this paper cup.

[Dave Anthony]

You put it in there and there you go. Now give it to me.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There we go.

[Dave Anthony]

After a while, she blew him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think this time you should blow me.

[Dave Anthony]

This is. This is wonderful. I wasted so many visits.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, boy. This is better.

[Dave Anthony]

This is so much better than jerking off.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're not a cop, right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I'm a cop. My name's Doug.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

And then eventually they had sex.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Doug Clark.

[Dave Anthony]

So they're banging now. She lived in a hotel room. And once Jimmy saw A picture of her nine year old daughter and he asked her about her family. I just can't just. I mean.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, I'm going to devil's advocate.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, that doesn't seem neighborly.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not terrible. I guess like you are being. You're. I mean, if you're sincere.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, you know what I mean? It's probably like. It's awkward.

[Dave Anthony]

Also, you could keep the kids out of it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think it's okay. I think it's. I think, I think. Here, I'll do it. This is a NASA hotel room.

[Dave Anthony]

Who are you now, huh?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm Jimmy.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. And you just talk like that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, let's check in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, ready?

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, go.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, hello.

[Dave Anthony]

Hi.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, this has a NASA hotel room.

[Dave Anthony]

Thanks. You've been here a bunch.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, is that your daughter?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. She's nine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What is. What's her favorite subject?

[Dave Anthony]

She likes Genie Swaggered Ministries.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my dick is out. Why? What is it in that time?

[Dave Anthony]

I guess that's why you're here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I finished.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, I guess he did ask about her. Yeah, it's like how you do it, quote. Then he started asking me questions like, has she started to develop okie dokie, you know, private parts?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh my gosh. What the.

[Dave Anthony]

Gotta be her boobs. I mean, it developed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Does she have a tits?

[Dave Anthony]

I said, well, no, she's only nine years old. It's fair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, no. Now, now I get why you were upset.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, you don't. You first. Yes. Because. Yes, they're in a completely sexual. They're there for sex. And you don't start talking about your kids like just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I. I think I could buy the opening small talk. But then asking about boobs of a nine year old, obviously that's where we're.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's bad. And then he started asking, quote, well, can I meet her?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, no.

[Dave Anthony]

And we'll call and we can tell her I'm a photographer and then I'll start taking pictures of you and she'll get comfortable and you know, maybe participate in it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Participate in the.

[Dave Anthony]

You should be able to hit him with a shovel in the face at this point.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. This is so. It's just, it's so. Again, I am very curious about like how much of that beh. Like is that behavior already in him or is it because of this full suppression that he just kind of becomes like a pedophile? Like, because it's all been off limits and now his brain is mushed out because of it.

[Dave Anthony]

I have no Idea how this shit works? Maybe. I mean. Oh, maybe, maybe. Like, since one thing's off limits, everything that's off limits.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like he's just got a lake of Taboo now.

[Dave Anthony]

Either way, shovel.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shovel.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dave Anthony]

So, Deborah, quote, you can do whatever turns you on, but don't ever mention my daughter again.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good.

[Dave Anthony]

Fair. Another Deborah client was a cop named Gorman, who happened to be Reverend Marv and Gorman's son.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, both.

[Dave Anthony]

So, first episode, Gorman was a guy who was. He was a reverend. He was banging another reverend's wife while supposed to be counseling them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Savage.

[Dave Anthony]

He was having sex, apparently, a lot of affairs. And someone got a tape of the wife's confession and then took Gorman down. And Jimmy is the guy who got the tape and took him down.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just remember, the next time you go to confession could be tanked.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Be careful. So. So this is revenge, right? And it's crazy. What a crazy coincidence that she has another client that's a cop. So she tells him she's Jimmy Swaggart, quote, and he got real interested, you know, and started asking me questions and stuff, and I couldn't understand why.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, she. She doesn't. Does she know he's Jimmy Swagger? Now? She still.

[Dave Anthony]

She knows it's Jimmy Swagger.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. So she's like, why is it so interesting?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, I think he's really into it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, but. Yeah, you're right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, it should be like, what's the big deal? He's just like, the largest preacher on tv. What you're with You. You're a fan? You want me get an autograph?

[Dave Anthony]

So then the cop starts calling her every day, and Rev. Gorman, he tells Rev. Gorman. Because that's his dad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And what a conversation. So, Dad, I was.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, what did you want to talk to me about, boy?

[Dave Anthony]

So I was having sex. I'm having sex with this. This escort. I'm having sex with escort at a hotel.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, well.

[Dave Anthony]

Dirty.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look, we all have ways of fraying at times and.

[Dave Anthony]

No, there's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Would hate to be the there's. As long as you're learning a new path. Look, I know a lot pilly women who are in relationships. Yeah, But I never took my shirt off. So we've all got that. We've all got lines. But I think the important thing is that you now go forward and learn yourself a lesson or two, boy.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, she's. She's also banging Jimmy Swagger, the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sorry. Do you see it? You're. You're You're. You're growing with the swaggies.

[Dave Anthony]

No, I'm not. I wouldn't call it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

But I'm saying Jimmy Swaggart is having sex with a escort.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Mm. And you are too.

[Dave Anthony]

He's your enemy. Yeah, but don't worry about me.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

We're not in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The shirt off.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not a dating.

[Gareth Reynolds]

His shirt off. Or is he just kind of.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not DP trunking. I don't know the details about the shirt. I didn't ask about shirt.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is he unzipping or is his.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, he's. They're having sex, so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes, but ours. Is his belt unbuckled? I.

[Dave Anthony]

Dad, I feel like you're missing the thing where the guy who took you down is having sex with an escort.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll be able to have that conversation, which is exciting, because I love a resurrection. But is. Is his. Is his penis out through the hole in his boxers and the belt is unbuckled?

[Dave Anthony]

What are you doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

And is his shirt on or off? And if it's a button shirt, does he have an undershirt? Is it unbuttoned? And if it is, is the undershirt. Does he hold it under his chin so that you see the tummy? Because if he's doing the thing where his shirt and his pants are off. Whoa. But if he's just slipping it out through the zipper hole and the boxer hole and his shirt's on, it's gonna be tough. That. That's kind of like having a magical cloak.

[Dave Anthony]

She said all he wears is a bib.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, we got a comeback on our hands. Boy, oh, boy. What an idiot. Why would he put himself in that position? I don't know you. All you. That's why the Lord gave us a zipper.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You could slip it out.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, dad, you're.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then just be. And then what I like to do was I would put a little bit of plastic wrap around the zipper teeth so as to not get chewed upon.

[Dave Anthony]

Dad, you're freaking me out. And I. And I'm also a freak. Like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, there's nothing freaky about what we're doing, son.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay?

[Gareth Reynolds]

We just don't want our zippers biting the shaft. Come here. No kiss Daddy. No kiss Daddy's head.

[Dave Anthony]

Dad, Deborah quotes lick my ear. Oh, sorry. Next one. I'm done with you. I can't take it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You hungry?

[Dave Anthony]

So Reverend Gorman hires a detective.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

To follow and figure out. So one day, while Jimmy and Deborah are doing their thing, Jimmy feels like something's off, and he Says there's too much heat, it's getting too hot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What is? The sex?

[Dave Anthony]

No, the whole energy. Yeah, everything's. So several women had been busted that week. But Gorman's detectives have been surveying Swaggart and Deborah for three weeks now. And Jimmy goes out to his car after he says there's too much heat, he's leaving and it has a flat tire. And Deborah notices a blue car keeps circling the hotel. Who would notice that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dude, the siren's on. Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

She assumed it was a cop. Then the car pulled into the parking lot and Gorman got out. And Garmin talks to Jimmy for two hours until Jimmy admits it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

It is believed the detective flattened the tire to give Gorman enough time to get to the motel and catch Jimmy in the act. And he wants. He wants to take Jimmy to himself. Like, after what Jimmy did to him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is that what is. This is kind of a weird. Like, so you're a detective for the day? Like, what are. Like what. He's been deputized for the afternoon.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, he know. He. It's got nothing to do with the law.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But the detect. Isn't the detective going to be like, wouldn't it be better for a detective to just arrest him and then put him in a room and get like.

[Dave Anthony]

It's just the minister. It's not the detective, it's the minister.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Doesn't he talk to a detective, though?

[Dave Anthony]

His son, Minister Gorman, who. Who Swaggart took out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

His son told him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

So then Minister Gorman hired the private detectives.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, private. I thought it was like a regular.

[Dave Anthony]

No, no. Okay, this is all off the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. He's trying to take him out. Okay, so Jimmy said he would publicly apologize to Gman for lying about him having affairs. Remember he said Garmin had over 100 affairs. Yeah, and help him get back into the Assemblies of God, he's going to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wish he got a regular cop.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. So Garmin waits and months are going by.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, I imagine to sit through all that, that. All that swaggered like preaching. Just like Christ. Another three hour sermon and not even a wink.

[Dave Anthony]

So there are rumors now swirling that Swagger has been caught leaving a hotel with a sex worker.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

And Gorman sent Jimmy a note saying, that's it. Time's up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. Hey, enough. It's been six months since I busted you in that parking lot as a fake detective.

[Dave Anthony]

Jimmy. Jimmy says nothing to. He doesn't respond to the. Time's up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jimmy's handling it Right. He's probably stressed out.

[Dave Anthony]

Then Gorman goes to the executive Presbytery. I don't know what that is. The whatever. Must be the board or whatever of the Assemblies of God and showed them the photos. So he went to the top notch, you know?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure. The criminals definitely going the biblical route.

[Dave Anthony]

On February 21, 1988, Jimmy delivered what became known as his I have sinned speech. He didn't say what he had done. No details at all, just that he had sinned. And this is on live tv on stage packed church. He cries. His wife nods.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, not at all what Gorman's like. Yeah, okay, dude. You said I 100 women.

[C]

I want to address myself as best as I know how. Address myself to those that I have wronged, that I have sinned against.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, you're good.

[C]

First of all, my wife Francis. God never gave a man a better help mate and companion.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

So they're just showing her. I don't know why the sound went.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Out, but she is. She's not me.

[C]

As far as this gospel has been taken through the ether waves. Ether wave to the great cities of the world and cover this globe. It would never have been done were it not for her strength.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so this goes on for a while. So I'm gonna speed it up. I'm gonna go forward like three minutes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're gonna go forward. I like the three minutes. Oh, boy. Him, by the way, real quick. Him having an orgasm based on his cadence here.

[Dave Anthony]

Not great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, that had to be a bummer. Oh, I'm gonna fin. Oh, it's a comment. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. It's a good. I'm about to pop a bigger boy. Oh. What? Oh, I see. It's in that I'm a come. Wow. I'm made a sin.

[Dave Anthony]

I wish I'd never seen that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Us having eye contact during it was upsetting.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now he's fully. Like.

[Dave Anthony]

I've jumped about three minutes ahead, and now he's lip quiver crying. Yeah, he's. He's. Yeah. Lip quiver crying. I. Hell, that went the wrong way. Okay.

[C]

The one whom I serve and I love and I worship.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. No tears.

[C]

I bow at his feet who has saved me and washed me and cleansed me. I have sinned against you, my Lord Jesus. And I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God's forgetfulness. Get it off the stage. Never to be remembered again.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's fake.

[Dave Anthony]

That's got to be someone else anymore.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Maybe not.

[Dave Anthony]

Wow. I don't know who. I don't know I don't know if someone added that or if that was actually someone yelling that, but.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jamie, can you bring up the original? So, yeah, that. Okay, that makes me think, like, this is. What I don't get is, Is like, I don't. You don't. This is the deal. If you really are like a, A beacon for the religious to teach the. And preach the Bible, you do not. You just don't get to fudge up like this. That's just like, part of the deal. You are being held to a standard that is just. Sorry. You're the one who's setting the fucking tone for the room. So if you're saying you can't do anything, you're not allowed to do this, you can't do this, whatever, then guess what? You don't get to fudge. Apologize. You do the thing that is. Is religiously right, and you fucking return all the money. You fudge off and you start going to another place to try to get yourself. You don't just get to sit there and just vaguely be like, I will wash it into the river of God's forgetfulness.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, you. The thing about being this type of Christian is you. It's almost like they want you to up and then repent. And you know what I mean? Like, it's almost like the flock is like. I don't know. They, they love it when you come clean with your sins.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I, I don't know. I, I don't. I really don't know, because I think that, like, the, his popularity.

[Dave Anthony]

Let me just say, they gave him a standing ovation.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, well, I, I think they are. It's a cult. I mean, they're. That. Those, those people who are in that church are in a cult. No doubt.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, but, but I, I. Others who are like, bro, go your. No, you know, like, you, you don't get to do that.

[Dave Anthony]

That's like, yeah, well, he gets a standing O. And then his wife hugs him. The presbytery of the Assemblies of God suspended him for three months. There you go. Take that. He's on IR Then the national presbytery suspended him for a year and ordered two years of counseling from preachers. So now he's got a. A preacher, but two months later, he refused the longer suspension. Quote, we believe that to stay out of the public for a year would totally destroy the television ministry and greatly adversely impact the college.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sorry, bro.

[Dave Anthony]

That's yo you up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's why you shouldn't do. That's why you cannot say that you Walk on fucking water.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he talked to the press, his wife and his son Donnie. We're all, we're standing there with him. Donnie's 34 now, so the presbytery has a phone meeting and votes to defrock him for moral. Moral failures. So wow. So their response to that is like done. Yeah, you. Yeah, like, you know, you're, you're.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We gave it you like an easy out, dude.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. You're banging a sex worker, bro. Deborah Murphy goes public. One reason was because she was asked about her daughter. So she was pissed about that. Quote. He's out there preaching about all this pornography and stuff and turns out he's wanting to do it with a nine year old girl. If I hadn't come out with it, he'd still be in the ministries. She's right. Pentas paid her between 75, $100,000 for an exclusive and to recreate the poses Jimmy requested while she was naked in photos.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So this is, this is where you're talking about the. Our culture being dog.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We really want to get to the bottom of what happened there. Also you said reverse cowgirl. Do you mind doing a couple of those for us?

[Dave Anthony]

Right. So I mean, because it is Penthouse.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Magazine, they have to find that in.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Everyone wants to see her naked. Right. Like that's gonna be a thing. But okay. Giving her a hundred thousand dollars to do an interview. Okay, yeah. But yeah, now you're, now it's just grossly exploitative and like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. And I mean that would. Nowadays, like that's a success story now. I mean that, that's just what it is. It's like, like you kick the can further down the street and look at our culture now and it's like, well, what do you want to do? Doordash or only fans?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I mean, yeah. So it's all just gross. Quote she said. Quote God, what a freak. Three eight. Kinky Three eight. Here he is. Maybe that was, I don't know, maybe.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That was a recipe to make a Jimmy at home.

[Dave Anthony]

I understand. Here he is up there preaching for all this money and when I see him, he's kinky. And cheap too. He only paid $20. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. He's also got so much money. That's the thing is like. Yeah, he's got so much money that he could be hooked up with whatever the top agencies, whatever they are. I'm sure there was back then a way, even if, even if you're a minister, to figure it out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And get the highest, most discreet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Or.

[Dave Anthony]

Or a brothel.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Or to her you go, I'm giving you fucking $2,000 a session. I'm paying for your silence forever.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Okay. He paid only $20 and had originally offered just 10.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God, dude, He likes James Corden.

[Dave Anthony]

He negotiated.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

What does that mean? He.

[Gareth Reynolds]

James Gordon, just like shitty tipping rich dude who doesn't want to pay writers. And.

[Dave Anthony]

The going rate for oral sex was between 30 and $40, which Jimmy refused to pay. So if oral sex is 30, 40, then I would assume that like sex, sex is like double that or whatever this is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look, I'm not trying to like, say the other stuff makes any sense, but what a crazy thing for a guy with that much money to do.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

To be like, I'm gonna nickel and dime.

[Dave Anthony]

Really?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Seriously, like, I'm gonna turn you against me a little bit.

[Dave Anthony]

When you're totally vulnerable to that person.

[Gareth Reynolds]

When you're totally vulnerable and you're like, your world is built around things like this not happening.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And you're like, can we do five? How about I just whack off in the front seat for a nickel?

[Dave Anthony]

So Jimmy goes back on the pulpit when his three month suspension is up. That's just the. The look like local one, not the national one.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

He's still defrocked there. He's now an independent, not denominational Pentecostal minister.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's. Wait, what is he.

[Dave Anthony]

He's in it. He. Gwen. Indy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm believing the label.

[Dave Anthony]

I assume there's some sort of.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Of certification or like.

[Dave Anthony]

Certification or like. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And we at the Dollop are brought to you by hims. Look, Dave, you know. All right, settle down, David. As you know, Dave, it can, you know, if you have trouble getting it, getting it up, it could be a difficult conversation. As we at the HIMS factory like to say, it can be hard to talk about not getting hard, but HIMSS is there for you. Makes it much easier than it used to be. First of all, they have their all online process that connects you to a licensed healthcare provider who can recommend personalized online. That's right. 100 online. Yep. Who can? Let me get through the statements and then you can do your little fun stuff that you always love to do. The licensed healthcare provider who can recommend personalized ED treatments from the comfort of your home. Look, Dave, I mean, through hims, you can access personalized prescription treatments for ed. Like hard mints and sex RX plus climax control. Yes. My guess is you don't even need to look any Further than that, Hims offers access to ED treatment options that cost 95% less than the brand names. That's more money in your pocket. David.

[Dave Anthony]

That feels crazy that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, if there's any time to not have more money in your pocket, it's when you're using him. You're going to need the room.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, is that a lot of money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In your pocket you saved, or are.

[Dave Anthony]

You just on him?

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, Dave, but they've got testosterone support like Tadalafil. I'm a doctor. Zinc for testosterone support. Hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. HIMS can help you find the ED option that works for you. Just fill out an intake form on their site and connect with a medical provider who can determine if treatment is right for you. Like I said, like Dave agreed. The process is 100% online. So there's no office visits, there's no pharmacy lines.

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And you also don't need insurance. One low price covering everything for your treatments. So look, you go have this visit with a doctor, if the treatments are, you know, good to go, then you prescribe the medication it ships directly to your door. So start your free online Visit [e-mail] Dollop Find ED treatment that's up to 95% less than the brand names at H I M s.com Dollop hims.com Dollop Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan. Featured products include compound drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important safety information. And we are brought to you by Hydro.

[Dave Anthony]

Hydro.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, Dave, you know, this time of year, look, you know how much I love the hydro. I talk about the hydro all the time. You've seen the hydro in my place, Dave. You've lived with me. I love the hydro. I love having it at home. You know, truly just the best workout you can get at home. Now, I could go on and on for the reasons why. Part of it is it's a full body workout. So if you, if you're working out, you know, if you're running or you're cycling or whatever, it, you're kind of the brunt of that is going on your legs. Hydro. Full body. Yeah, exactly. So it's full, but you've got a great body. So it's, it's full body. You can, you can do it quickly. You could do 20 minute class, you can do 45 minute classes. It actually helped me figure out a way better form to rowing, which I'll forever be Indebted to. But you have a monitor there and you have the classes, you have tons of classes you could pick from. There's an instructor if you want one who kind of walks you through it and helps you row, row, row your boat. And truly, it just the, it's full body, you're sweating, your arms get bigger, it is lower impact. These workouts are for real. They are led by athletes, Olympians, world champions. Dave, you're, you're leading a couple of them. What I understand.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. And you're less likely to drown.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that's absolutely right. Hydro. Hydro boasts about their track record of nobody has drowned rowing in their, in their home. And they're filmed in beautiful places. Okey dokey. Don't love that. They're filmed in beautiful places all over the world. Which truly, it's like I, I do a lot of the Boston classes because it takes me back. So trying Hydra was super easy for me. They offer free shipping, a 30 day risk, free trial and a one year warranty. So I didn't feel really locked in. I was like, let's just do this. I just decided I could try it out and see if I liked it. Guess what? I loved it. So skip the gym, not the workout. Stay on track with Hydro for a limited time. Go to hydro.com, use code DOLLOP to save up to $450 off your hydro Pro rower. That's hyd, Dave. Not while I'm doing this part of it, please. That's H Y--R-O-W.com code dollop to save up to $450. Hydro.com code dollop. Oh, and we are brought to you by Mint Mobile. Yeah. You know what doesn't belong in your epic summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. Now that happens. You really think, you really think that you're getting a fine deal or whatever and then you find out about mobile and you're like, wait, what's been going on for the last 15 years? So your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back, especially in the summer. You're trying to go to the beach, show off your abs, right, Dave? All of them. Yeah. That's why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. With Mint, you can get the coverage and the speed that you're used to, but for way less money. And for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. Now you might be like, what? That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So while your friends like Dave's friends. Dave, who's your best friend?

[Dave Anthony]

My best friend is you, Gareth, forever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

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[Dave Anthony]

Try to take them.

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[Dave Anthony]

He creates Jimmy Swaggart Ministries in Baton Rouge. He lost some broadcast and merch rights.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Merch.

[Dave Anthony]

A ton of students left his Bible college, both because of the scandal and because now there's accreditation issues. So it's not college.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Like it was three months later. The story explodes when it hits penthouse.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So up until then it's just small and it. Within the religious, you know, world. And now it's everybody.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Deborah goes on Donahue, Larry King and Geraldo and does a 10 city PR tour. Hey, dude, I hope she made a lot of money. I hope she. I really hope she did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She probably made some pretty good money to go on tour, right? I bet those talk shows didn't pay much. Actually, they probably did. They probably paid pretty well considering they were all fighting for that. That. Sorry. Looking up, like her net worth or whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, well, I just want to. Yeah, let's. Okay. So this is what she looks like. If you wanna.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, wow. That she's at penthouse there.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, yeah, she is. Well, I mean, look, I hope. I hope she got out of it. What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I mean, again, we have no real.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, this is. This is what I want to pray. This is the gross one. So that's like a pose of her sitting, kneeling in front of a chair. That's the Penthouse. It's so gross. It's so fucking gross. So tensity tour. When asked if his tears are real, she said, quote, well, maybe, but to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Me, a tear, by the way.

[Dave Anthony]

No, there were no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He does the. He does the fake cry thing.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Which is like, from now on, if people who legislate against the things they do have to apologize, there needs to literally be like, like a lie detector, a tear detector, someone who walks over there, checks them for reality, swabs them. Right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And. And if there's not tears, then you go, I, I don't know what to tell you. All I could say is that this, it's like the same where they're just like. Now they'll be like, what do you think of this? I haven't actually read that. Yeah, you're like, well, okay then. What? What? Tell me what your fucking job is. You read the shit and have a fucking opinion the next day, asshole.

[Dave Anthony]

What's going on?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I haven't had a chance. I've been so busy making tiktoks.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth got really upset. Everybody heard that. Okay, so. Well, are the tears real? Well, maybe, but to me, I don't really think so because I watch him on tv. He's a totally different person when he came to see me. And that's the real person I think he was. Yeah, you can tell in that video I played when he crying. That dude's a full on actor. It's 100% acting. It's all acting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Y.

[Dave Anthony]

So she went home to Indiana.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's amazing that the people on that level are the most, the largest sinners. The way that he's coming after MLE crew, it's like, hey, they say what they're doing.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like not, not to be like, oh, yeah, they're, they're whatever, heroes, but they say what they're doing. You take money from people who you're convincing you have this connection to and you are so full of shit that you have to get up in front of them and lie.

[Dave Anthony]

At least between the two of them, she provides a service that people need and enjoy. Yes. He just takes people's money. Yes. Yeah. And lies to him. So she goes home to Indiana, moves back in with her parents, gets a ged, and then becomes an interior decorator.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, nice.

[Dave Anthony]

Good for fucking her. Now Jimmy's being heavily parodied, mocked, targeted rock stars. Jimmy had gone after. And sermons were very, very happy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I remember this part. Ozzy isn't Ozzy. Doesn't Ozzy do a video?

[Dave Anthony]

He writes a song about him. Ozzy writes a song called Miracle man and it just rips him a new one. The video is in a church. The church is filled with pigs. And it starts with Ozzy wearing a crying Jimmy Swaggart mask, which he takes off and laughs again. Sweet victory.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, you. This is what you did.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you. Are you perfect? Oh, okay. Well then guess what? Enjoy the slide.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah. So Jimmy trudges on with his televangelist business. Because there are people that like. Like we've seen in so many different aspects of the past, like few years. There's nothing you can do to shed your. A lot of your audience.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

There's all these people are still gonna fucking stay there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You can make some 30% will. You'll retain.

[Dave Anthony]

You can make some pivot like Russell Brand or Jimmy Dore did and. And pick up new people. But people just stick with you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep. You can say you. Well, the. The whole canceled thing really, you know, that's. That just kind of in comedy just made it so it's like, oh, yeah, you'll be all right. Yeah, you'll. You'll retain. You'll retain the people who don't care about the actual facts and the details and they'll just buy your. And you'll sell out theaters. Even though most of your material is just about how you look like a bird or whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

It always goes back to start not.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Doing kind of the bellwether.

[Dave Anthony]

He's. He's just the most repugnant and off putting. He was always the most republican off putting comedian to me.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And then all this stuff came out and. And I just watch him and I'm just like, there's nothing likable about this human being.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, like, like it's funny because the Louis CK stuff, like people really do kind of at times like. Like I've definitely heard dudes be like, it's not that bad. Like, I. I know two of the people who were involved in that.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And when I heard their version of it, they were horror. Like it was a horrible experience for them to go through.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So you can't be like, it's kind of. He's just like jacking off in a doorway. However, if you were to go talent wise, who. Who leaves a larger hole.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That guy was doing some good.

[Dave Anthony]

Y.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, there's like, I'm saying what he does. What he did was aborant. And it's really. It's kind of. He. He had like this, whatever, this process where he went, and he's been dinged by it, as he should be. But you were definitely like, oh, man, I really like that guy. I don't get that with. First of all, the acts are so much worse.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then it's never like. You're like, we can't replace this voice in comedy.

[Dave Anthony]

Right. Easily you can replace that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll go to the Comedy Store and throw a stone and hit someone who can do it just as good.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, the thing about. People say that Louis CK didn't actually do anything. If you block the doorway and are masturbating and are orgasming because of the concerned, scared look in someone's eyes, you're a monster.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. That is some dark.

[Dave Anthony]

Super dark.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's like.

[Dave Anthony]

So don't tell me that that is nothing. Don't tell me that's just nothing. No, that's. That's you getting off on fear.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

You're up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that's. That's a niche.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. So he goes on with his televangelist business. As we're talking about, though, it. It's falling apart. It's not what it. What it was, obviously.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why?

[Dave Anthony]

Before the scandal, he had an audience of 2 million a week. In November 1990, it's down to 400.

[Gareth Reynolds]

000, but it's still massive.

[Dave Anthony]

It's still 20. It's still 400.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's huge. It's only small because he had 2.

[Dave Anthony]

Million it in 1989, he sold three radio stations for 10.7 million.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't think I can pay $8.00 for a hand job. Could you do 3 or 50?

[Dave Anthony]

Over the next couple years, nine TV stations and a local Louisiana contractor filed lawsuits to collect over 200,000 from Jimmy Swaggart Ministries.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's just trying.

[Dave Anthony]

So he is. He is like ptl. He is. He is spending too much and all of a sudden his. His income is wiped out. So he does have economic problems, obviously, as he should.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

He leased buildings to the Louisiana Department of environmental quality for 1.5 million a year.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So it's a good story.

[Dave Anthony]

So that's, that's. That's like his, his bros in government who he's paid off, are now getting his back. Yeah, that's what that is. He's also started selling land that he owned. You can't take him down. He's already got too much money. You can't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So in July 1991. Marvin Gorman sued Jimmy for 90 million for defamation.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Garmin admitted having one affair, but said Jimmy made up lies about all the other ones to ruin him. Him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I just can't imagine this even mattering to anyone at this point.

[Dave Anthony]

He's just got to be trying to get money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

Because it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's like years later, he played it so horribly.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like, film him and be like, all right. You promise?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Said he was like, all right, cool. Let me help you with that tire.

[Dave Anthony]

The trial didn't go well for anyone. Gorman won the case and got 10 million. They would eventually settle out of court for 1.85 million.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

But all the stuff that came out in the trial just got damaged. But I guess Garmin just needed money at that point, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

So he got 1.8 million. That's pretty good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I guess.

[Dave Anthony]

A month later, Jimmy is in Indio, California, and he's touring. It's a great place to tour.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Perfect. I. I know every time I've been there, I'm like, I believe in God.

[Dave Anthony]

Just picture piss, but it dried.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Picture. If you could chip piss off the.

[Dave Anthony]

Floor and put meth in it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Someone.

[Dave Anthony]

Right now is listening into you. Like, what the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look. Go outside.

[Dave Anthony]

Go outside.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Got better.

[Dave Anthony]

The day after his 39th wedding anniversary, after spending in there, after spending a dinner with friends and Francis. It's nice.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Beautiful. I'm sure she's doing great.

[Dave Anthony]

A cop pulled him over.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

He had borrowed a 1989 Jaguar from a friend, and he was driving on the wrong side of the road in an.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I thought I was in a Germany.

[Dave Anthony]

The car's unregistered and he's not wearing a seat belt, which is now illegal. They used to pull. They would pull you over all the time when they first passed the law. In the car was Rosemary Garcia, and Garcia said Jimmy picked her up on the side of the road for a date, which is how you date. That's how you used to date before the Internet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like, you probably. You probably. You're not like, hey, if we get pulled over, here's how we'll play. You know, you're just driving. Yeah, I wish she hadn't said that. That. Jesus Christ. Don't you have, like, talking points? You say you're my niece. He. He. I met him on the side of the road and he. I got in his car for money to suck his dick.

[Dave Anthony]

We're dating.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She. She loves to play this game with police officers.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, for sex. I mean, that's why.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, okie. Dokie. Why don't we. Officer, how are you? Are you guys. All my boys are blue.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm here to blow him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okie dokie. All right, Jake, gotta go home. But you can't stay in here. What do we want to do? Maybe some fast food. What do you want? A little army's officer. I'll do it. I can't believe what she's saying. I thought I knew her. She's my niece. She's playing a game. Holy. No, no, no. She might need. She playing a game on me. Oh, could. May I roll up my window one second and talk to her?

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Could you have done worse just now? What the was that?

[Dave Anthony]

The window's still down.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know how to go. Oh, I need to go. I tell you, officer, I just. Sometimes I need to be under the waterfall of the Lord's fingers. I swear, I just have not figured out the Lord Heather put me through. So all my cock is out.

[Dave Anthony]

All the Lord hath says the cops quote for sex. I mean, that's why he stopped me. That's what I do. I'm a prostitute. He asked for sex. He was shaking.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, she is a comedian.

[Dave Anthony]

As he drove, he saw a cop behind him, flipped out, swerve the car across the road as he tried to hide porno magazines.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh my God.

[Dave Anthony]

It's just so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What is he doing?

[Dave Anthony]

You can just keep driving.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bro, bro, bro, bro, look, just take the money and run. Like, what are you doing? Like, it's. It's also a fame addiction.

[Dave Anthony]

He's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's got both. He's. He's power and money. It is the. The corruptors.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And that's what part? Like, because he could very easily have just been like, I'm leaving the church because.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I'm so sorry.

[Dave Anthony]

And he's got all the money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He can hire sex workers.

[Dave Anthony]

He's got enough money to live on an island.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're good to go. But he has to stay at top and keep saying that he's redeemed and all this and steady, sucker. I mean, that is what like as an 8 year old, I imagined driving would be like. I was like, I have my porn. I'll be jacking off. There'll be a lady there.

[Dave Anthony]

But also like, like the idea that like you see a cop car behind you and instead of continuing to just drive down the road calmly so they don't arrest you, you start trying to. Where you gonna hide the porn magazines to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

To decide to just like, here's the cop. That's strange. Like here's the cop. If you don't do that. Pretty boring day so far, Cap. That's crazy. Let's go get him.

[Dave Anthony]

That's why he was stopped. Garcia said, quote, he's the same guy who cries on TV for all these people to feel sorry for him, to give him all their money for what? So he can come give it to us. That's pretty good. She has an understanding of the economy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Capitalism, understands how she should be the new Fed.

[Dave Anthony]

So that night, he drives home over 30 hours straight.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, right. So because he, what, he's post bail or he's just.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, because it's not. They don't hold it for that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

When he got to his estate, he passed out in the driveway behind the wheel. A friend, quote, he had spilled some strawberry drink on his chest and we thought it was blood. Can you imagine? Drama queen.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can you imagine?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, he got to his driveway and then passed out. You, dude, you like just going. He's such a drama.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I also do like the idea of him on that. That 30. I mean, we've driven 30 hours. It's like. It's depressing. He's taking that 30 hour drive alone and he's somewhere like, filling up and he's like, strawberry juice. I never had that. Is that good?

[Dave Anthony]

Do you think he was being enough of a little drama that he spilled it on himself on purpose maybe. Yeah, I could totally see him doing that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's at this point, you know, again, I mean, now he has to reapply for redemption, which is going to be harder.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, the double. The double is difficult.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So he's doing re redemption, and that is more difficult. So he's now trying to be as sympathetic a figure as possible.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. You know, but three days later, Donnie, his son, announced Jimmy would be stepping down for an indefinite period to get medical and spiritual help.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Medical.

[Dave Anthony]

He also.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What are they gonna do, take the perv box out?

[Dave Anthony]

He might have picked up something. I've got other gonorrhea.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, I've got a red sea coming out of my donger.

[Dave Anthony]

But the next day, Jimmy was back at the pulpit where he told his congregation, quote, the Lord told me, it's flat out none of your business, Justin. Go yourself.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, think about the Jerry Lee Lewis route.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just a little bit of a shorter drive.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, really. And that the Lord had told him to return to the pulpit. Quote, he said, you tell them the Thursday morning you'll be making television programs. And he said he didn't have to apologize.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow. I Mean, I was shocked.

[Dave Anthony]

I wonder if he was drinking at this point.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, seems pretty sure. Pretty. I would be. Ish. Yeah. Yeah, I would be too. Luckily, sex pest Clarence Thomas had hearings going on and that overshadowed all this. The next day Donnie said Jimmy would be stepping down for a period of time for quote, a time of healing and counseling.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So now Donnie's come out twice a month like okay, no, he's dead now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's, he's like pulling him back. I think of the Lord said Donnie was a wrong.

[Dave Anthony]

Demons had made him pick up a sex worker. Which is. Yeah, I mean demons in my balls. You know what I mean? Just so what demon. You could, you could say that your libido is driven by demons. Sure, sure.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But better to say you have this than you don't and that nobody else should.

[Dave Anthony]

Within a two week. Within two weeks, the ministries was selling property and TV equipment. Employee employees were laid off in droves. Many of the people who had stuck with him through the first incident were now walking away. Yeah, you can't reread. You can't. You can't double it. No. But he kept trudging along doing his TV and evangelism in this. In January 2000, 10 year old Swagger Ministries employee John Clauser was charged with money laundering, bank fraud and theft for stealing 750000 from the ministries. He was spending the money on out of state girlfriends, including a Washington Redskins cheerleader. His salary was 30000 a year.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh my God. I don't know what is crazier.

[Dave Anthony]

Good for him. I have no problem with someone ripping off a ministry like this. Go brother, go. Go wild with it. And you got to date a cheerleader.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who by the way get paid.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they get paid terribly.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So he may as well take a little back. Take a little that back.

[Dave Anthony]

He got 15 years.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. And swaggered Baker.

[Dave Anthony]

Baker got Baker. They got 45, but did five.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, right, right.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, right. In 2002, Jimmy and his cousins Jerry Lee and Mickey Gilly were inducted into the Delta Music Museum hall of Fame.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, who was Jimmy?

[Dave Anthony]

No, Jerry.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, yeah, sorry.

[Dave Anthony]

Jimmy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jimmy who?

[Dave Anthony]

Swagger. He did gospel records, remember?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know, but what the.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, he does great music. Now separate the music from the artist and their other cousin who was also like a country music. Yeah, he was a country music. So they're, they're all inducted into the Delta Music hall of Fame. Gilly become a well known country music singer. In 2004, Jimmy apologized after he said about gay men. Quote, if one looks at me like that, I'm gonna kill him and tell God he died.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

What a dick. First of all, they're not going to look at you like that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Trust you're good.

[Dave Anthony]

Secondly, look at you. Look at you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is. That is one of their favorite things to all. If one of them tries to. Me.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look out.

[Dave Anthony]

Not happening.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. You're good, bro.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, you're fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're fine.

[Dave Anthony]

Hang in there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. It's always the unfuckable if I watch it.

[Dave Anthony]

He got a big round of applause in his church for saying that and later would apologize and say it was a joke. After Hurricane Katrina, Swaggart offered land for a hospital to be built.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Then real estate values soared and he reneged on the deal. Yeah. Yeah. The ministries were sued and settled by offering two buildings for lease to federal relief agencies.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They got sued into having to give.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, I think that they were. The.

[D]

The.

[Dave Anthony]

The sale was probably going through like, it wasn't just. In 2010, he created the Sun Life Broadcasting Network. His wife has a show on sbn. Oh, my God.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Her. Here. Oh, me.

[D]

We're going to go to our next caller, who is Diane in Texas. And Diane, welcome to Sun Life Broadcasting. You have a quick question or comment? Yes. Good morning. Good morning. I actually called yesterday. My phone hung up on me. I was calling because. And I know it's not exactly what y' all been talking about today. Explain to me about a cult, because someone has brought it to my attention, actually several people, because they know I. I listen and watch y'. All. That y' all are an occult.

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[D]

And. And they. And they showed me a thing on their Facebook phone, and it's supposed to be a Christian, and his name is Mark Schwarz. S W A R B R I, C, K. You had a long article about your ministry. I've never heard of the person, Diane, so I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I've never. Well, like I said, I've never heard. Because I don't do Facebook and all that kind of stuff. But now there's also lots of articles.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But let's.

[D]

Mike is here. Let's define what a cult is.

[E]

Let me say this. First of all, the Internet is going to be filled with truth, half truth and total lies. There's going to be no problem finding people that would oppose us. But what we ask is, is that you judge us according to God's word, not according to man's opinion of us. There'll be More people. There'd be more people getting a closer walk with God if they would get out of Facebook and put their face in the book, if you understand what I'm saying. But if we look at what a cult is. A cult is. If you're looking at a legal definition by the courts, a cult is any organization that uses illegal and immoral powers to control another person. Okay, now if we look at the Christian.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so they're called Checkmate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's it.

[Dave Anthony]

So they're a cult.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boy, what a great call to get. First of all, calling it a Facebook phone is hilarious. Like what? It's like what? How an alien would describe a phone with Facebook on it. But again, judge me by God's words. Or it's like we did. We have. Yeah, okay, you're guilty there, too.

[Dave Anthony]

Not great for you. So Jimmy had a daily program on sbn. His grandson Gabriel leads the youth ministry. His Bible college recently became accredited through the Transnational association of Christian Colleges and Schools. They get a credit accreditation for Christian schools and are recognized by the Department of Education.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. I guess we do need to break it apart.

[Dave Anthony]

In 2020, when the pandemic hit, Jimmy Swaggart Ministries received somewhere between 2 and 5 million. Of course, Jimmy Swaggart kept going. Was on air as a televangelist. On July 15, 2022, he released a gospel album with Jerry Lee called Jerry Lee, Jimmy Lee and Jerry Lee, the Boys from Faraday.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We are into kids.

[Dave Anthony]

The ministry sells a gold dove and cross lapel pin or cross pennant for 200 on a Crossfire Deluxe Expositor's Bible for 500. For 1000, you can get an MP3 player that plays Sun Life Broadcasting Network work. What the. Is that what the actual. It must just be a bunch of digital files of previous but like, shows. Yeah, just on an MP3 player that does nothing else.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, you can also get a Bible signed by Jimmy for 2500. You can get the complete set of Jimmy Swaggart's Bible commentary signed by Jenny. Sadly, Gareth Jimmy had a massive heart attack and was hospitalized on June 15, 2025. He continued having heart attacks while hospitalized until he died on July 1st. So we just lost Jimmy five days ago.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

So sad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Come closer. I've got to tell you something. My dying wish. Someone. Someone should take. Someone. Check me off. What?

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jack me up, please.

[Dave Anthony]

Can you also please stop offering the nurses $10?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Get the. Give the nurse 650.

[Dave Anthony]

650.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, $6 and 50.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And she could take one of my get well balloons. And then to have her do reverse palm thumb down to shaft base.

[Dave Anthony]

Do you know what a balloon is?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, one of the get wells get well soon balloon. Hurry boy. I don't know if I'm long for this.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm gonna smell you with a pillow now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, can I whack off all you?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, go ahead. Just, I want you to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm sorry, I don't know what I did. Why would I say that?

[Dave Anthony]

Research for this was done by Ron Paclone.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The.

[Dave Anthony]

Other sources, J.D. davis unconquered the story of cousins Jerry Lee Lewis, Jimmy Swaggart and Mickey Gilly. Worldhistory.com, songfacts.com, lA Times, a bunch of YouTube videos. Facebook, obviously. ShopJS, facebook.com, jSBC, edu, trex.com, uPI Washington Post, mozambiquehistory.net AP News people.com all things thriller.com UPI I say that cnn.com theologyinthecity.com nola.com abcnews.go.com thehill.com and Tampa Bay.com also the Herald sun and Durham.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shout out Ramplicon. You know, I think the thing is that, that it's like we are so powerless in the world we live in that we want to believe that there is some way or someone who can help or fix or address or make sense. And it's really just anytime anyone gets to the actual top, they're just a liar who betrays you and you know, self profits and you know, many different ways. And then they're pretty much allowed to go off and either if they live in shame or whatever that like I remember, like, I think I told you this. I had an argument with a friend of mine not too long ago who hates Trump and love Trump. And I said, and he said something like, I know you like hey, George W. Bush and like think he should be like in prison. And I go, no, you should be put to death. And he was like, see, that's where. And I was like, well they should be. I was like these, like you cannot say that, that you're allowed to kill Saddam Hussein and then basically do the same.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And like, so what are, what are we doing? Like, at some point you have to hold some people in power to account, otherwise they get to be on the fucking. You know, I just, I feel so mad when these people just actually die of natural causes because you're just like, well dude, you up so many lives. You're just a greedy pervert who lies, takes advantage and then you know, you kind of. You're like world shrinks because of the shame you've brought to yourself, but you still have never had to pay for all the bad that you did.

[Dave Anthony]

Right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And. And that goes on any ideology, like, like, even if it's religious or political, like, we both just get take. You get taken advantage of these liars.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And. And then that's it. And then it's just over.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You mean. Any thoughts?

[Dave Anthony]

No, I think you're right. And you know, they, but they, but they work so hard. I mean, I think that's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's, that is true. It's not.

[Dave Anthony]

A lot of people you're talking about worked really hard.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

To get where they are. And that's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, we are a meritocracy.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, that. That's become very obvious with. Yeah. I mean, we, we are so apexed right now with what Trump does. It's like, it really is amazing to watch it all just be like full veil down. Holy wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And we earned it.

[Dave Anthony]

We did earn it. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Usa. Usa. Hey, Dollop fans. I know you love the dollop. You love listening to the dollop. Do you want to watch the dollop? You're like, gareth, what are you talking about? By the way, it's not Gary, it's Gareth. Well, we have partnered with Lakeside Animation and we are starting to animate some of our episodes. So if you want to go watch a five parter animation, which is actually like a 22 minute episode or 30 minute episode, I can't remember, of the rube, you can go to LakeSide Animation on YouTube and watch a really awesome animation of the rube. It. It really genuinely kicks ass and we're very proud of it. And the more you share it, the more you give it to people, the more you follow Lakeside, all that stuff, the better chance we have of making a lot more of them. We're already making a second one, so go there and watch the rube.