731 - Vern Miller - Live - The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

Transcript

Dave Anthony (0:01)

You're listening to the Dollop. I think I'm still gonna sit like this, though.

Gareth Reynolds (0:12)

Like a merman.

Dave Anthony (0:13)

This is an American history podcast. Or each week I feel like I'm

Gareth Reynolds (0:17)

Drew Barrymore on the Tonight show. Like as a six year old, like, well, I don't know. I guess they told me ET Was fake.

Dave Anthony (0:27)

Each week I read a story from American History to guy Gareth Reynolds, who

Gareth Reynolds (0:32)

has no idea what the topic is going to be about.

Dave Anthony (0:39)

Okay, all right. So I took some liberties because I've always wanted to do this subject and part of Kansas City's in Kansas,

Gareth Reynolds (0:53)

Dave Anthony (0:54)

that's why this is about to happen. December 22, 1928. Vern Miller was born in a house his father built near Bogtown, one of the poorest parts of Wichita, Kansas.

Gareth Reynolds (1:16)

You're telling me Swampsville was shitty.

Dave Anthony (1:19)

Young Verne was best friends with Tony, the family's burro, and he would practice standing on top of Tony's back as Tony walked.

Gareth Reynolds (1:30)

Oh, my God. Yes. Yes.

Dave Anthony (1:34)

The streets were.

Gareth Reynolds (1:35)

Who taught him how to ride? You got it, boy. There you go.

Dave Anthony (1:38)

He's an idiot.

Gareth Reynolds (1:39)

That's good. Water ski the donkey. There you go.

Dave Anthony (1:42)

He's a daredevil. The streets weren't paved and people could only afford any. Could only afford anything other than necessities. Well, that didn't come out right, but you know what I mean? All they could afford was necessities. They could only afford anything else. Just necessities.

Gareth Reynolds (1:56)

Summary

The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

Episode 731 – Vern Miller – Live
Date: April 28, 2026

Episode Overview

In this live episode of The Dollop, Dave Anthony recounts the eccentric, combative, and often outrageous life of Kansas lawman Vern Miller to the unsuspecting Gareth Reynolds. From his scrappy upbringing in Depression-era Wichita to his rise as a sheriff, attorney general, and prohibitionist crusader, Miller is depicted as a brawler whose enforcements and antics became legendary — and controversial. The show, packed with Gareth's signature riffs and Dave's detailed storytelling, dives deep into both the absurdities and implications of old-school, tough-guy law enforcement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Wild Upbringing

Childhood in Poverty:
- Vern Miller was born in 1928 in the impoverished area of Bogtown, Wichita, Kansas.
- He practiced stunts on his family's burro, Tony, as a kid:
  
  “Young Vern was best friends with Tony, the family's burro, and he would practice standing on top of Tony’s back as Tony walked.” (00:19)
- Life was rough, with neighborhood brawls and bare-knuckle fights being common among children, often overlooked or even spectated by local police.
  
  “The cops left us alone to put knots on each other's heads. And chip each other's teeth.” (03:04)
Academic Achievement, Sort Of:
- Became valedictorian of his eighth-grade class.
  
  “Valedictorian for the eighth grade class. Wow, what a bright future I see amongst this room.” (03:40)

2. Military and Early Policing

Army Service:
- Joined to fight in Korea; learned to box and developed a love for motorcycles.
- Discharged early due to rheumatic fever.
Becoming a Cop:
- Hired as a motorcycle cop after a parking-lot audition—no background check, just skill and bravado.
  
  “He flew around the building really fast, leaning into every turn with precision. And Captain Jack hired him on the spot. No background check.” (06:21)
- Bought his own uniform and “borrowed” a gun to become a deputy same day.
- Started out directing traffic during the Boeing boom in Wichita, witnessing massive congestion from shifting local demographics.

3. Establishing a Reputation: Fistfights, Bouncing & Bare-Knuckle Justice

Brawling Fame:
- Took on jobs as a bouncer at an all-black nightclub.
- Gained a reputation for fighting anyone, earning the nickname “the public champ.”
  
  “‘He was like an oversized jack terrier on steroids.’” (14:20)
Unconventional Approaches:
- Chased down a stolen license plate for a friend, resulting in a press-worthy one-punch knock-out of the thief after a high-speed pursuit.
  
  “He finally manages to corner the car and he jumps off his bike and he sprints over and knocks out the driver with one punch.” (12:39)

4. Political Ambitions & Law Enforcement Innovations

Rise in Local Politics:
- After being fired by a new sheriff (due to a campaign-trail “donnybrook”), Miller ran—successfully—for county marshal, then sheriff.
- Noted for both law-and-order stunts and for being not great at political alliances.
Black-and-White Law Enforcer:
- Resumed Prohibition-era liquor law busts decades after actual prohibition, annoying colleagues and the local Democratic Party.
- Used his position to clear case backlogs and went undercover in unusual ways.
Signature Tactic: The Trunk Surprise
- Would famously hide in the trunk of undercover cars, leaping out at the moment of arrest.
  
  “His predecessors rarely went in the field, but he’s always out in the field. ...he would hide in the trunk of an undercover cop's car, and then right at the moment, he would leap out and shout, ‘you're under arrest.’” (27:55 – 28:00)
  - Even after this method became known, it continued to catch suspects off-guard.

5. Escalation, Violence, and Questionable Judgement

Direct Violence:
- Routinely used violence—both as lawman and politician.
- Examples include shooting at escaping suspects (one graze to the lip), breaking noses during altercations, or fistfights with fugitives and even during campaign events.
Extra-Legal Methods and Confrontations:
- Once threatened two officers with lethal force to evade a forced testimony seen as an unlawful arrest.
  
  “He shouts very angrily, ‘if either of you move, I'll kill you.’” (52:33)
- This incident led to a Kansas law making it illegal to resist a “clearly and obviously unlawful arrest” (the Vern Miller Law).

6. Attorney General & The War on Pleasure

Anti-Drug, -Alcohol, & -Gambling Crusades:
- As Attorney General, Miller mounted a relentless war on drugs, gambling, and liquor violations, targeting everyone from college students to church bingo halls.
  
  “Personally led raids on clubs, gambling dens, and churches.” (64:06)
- Famous for headline-grabbing raids:
  - Raided Amtrak trains and even arrested a conductor for serving liquor over Kansas, grounding trains until a replacement arrived.
    
    “At the very first Kansas stop, Vern had a battalion of cops board the train and shut it down. They arrested waitresses who were just doing their jobs. ...And when a conductor demanded an explanation, he was also arrested.” (70:08–70:20)
  - Airlines stopped serving in-flight booze over Kansas in response.
- Targeted rock concerts and hash dealers, building a puritanical reputation.
  
  “...rock concerts were hotbeds for the sale and usage of illegal drugs and alcohol and were therefore unwelcome in Kansas.” (74:49)
  - Wichita was dubbed “the hashish capital of the world” purely because of its central location by an overzealous official.

7. Media Image, Downfall, and Legacy

Public/Media Persona:
- Media often lauded his “True Grit"—especially after he jumped into a high school race riot and started beating up teenagers, emerging with a black eye as a campaign motif.
  
  “He used his legs to power himself up through the mass of bodies and pounded whatever faces came at him while taking a beating himself. ...Papers. Gave him a new campaign motto: True Grit.” (61:03 – 62:15)
Final Years:
- Ran for governor, but after exposing a bribery scandal (against his own party), the Democrats abandoned him. He narrowly lost.
- Retired, briefly remarried, took up private practice and spent time traveling on motorcycle before his death in 2021 at 92.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

The Absurdity of the Trunk Arrests

“So fucking stupid. Like a cop in a box.” – Gareth Reynolds (28:00)
“Miller then reentered the trunk. They took him to a second location, and Miller remained in the trunk for more than a half an hour.” – Dave Anthony (30:26)

Barbaric Policing

“Verne grinned and yelled, ‘Mack, you son of a bitch, I love you, but you're coming home.’ And then they had a 20 minute fist fight until cops arrived.” – Dave Anthony (34:09–34:47)
“He started firing a gun on a crowded bus. ...‘Boy, I sure hope this is the right son of a bitch.’” – Dave Anthony (39:41–40:01)

On the War on Pleasure

“He nailed some low-level dealers with pot and a little bit of LSD... The press reported as a resounding success.” – Dave Anthony (64:14–64:26)
“He targeted rock concerts because... ‘noisy trash-generating rock concerts were hotbeds for the sale and usage of illegal drugs and alcohol and were therefore unwelcome in Kansas.’” (74:47)

Kansas Liquor Law Absurdity

“Bars could not pour liquor, but clubs were. Could, but only if you bought the bottle yourself. ...You could not drink it from somebody else's bottle.” – Dave Anthony (67:23)

Miller’s “Black-eye Billboard”

“The billboard has a black eye... Oh my god, he has a black eye.” – Dave Anthony & Gareth Reynolds (63:32–63:36)

On Law Enforcement Brutality

“He’s definitely eager.” – Dave Anthony (40:37)
“It changed when the Supreme Court was like, yeah, you can just shoot them if they're running away. It's no big deal.” – Dave Anthony (85:39–85:56)

Timeline of Major Events with Timestamps

00:53: Vern’s birth and rough childhood in Wichita, Kansas.
03:32: Description of childhood brawling and “Hoover’s Orchard Gang.”
04:43: Joins the army, fights in Korea, learns to box—discharged due to rheumatic fever.
05:25–07:52: Hired on the spot as a motorcycle cop, with zero background check.
10:25–12:49: High-speed chase to retrieve buddy’s stolen license plate; one-punch arrest.
13:00–14:07: Grows reputation as a “public champ” bouncer.
17:02: “Donnybrook” (fistfight) with sheriff candidate, gets fired, then runs for marshal.
19:42: Begins aggressive Prohibition-style liquor raids, upsetting sheriff and Democratic party.
27:55–30:44: Repetitive “trunk cop” arrest stunts.
31:17: Elected sheriff; picks a pro wrestling champ as head jailer.
33:36: Chases, shoots, and fistfights fugitive “Mack”—including the classic “I love you, but you’re coming home” line.
39:25–40:01: Gunfight on a bus; infamous “Boy, I sure hope this is the right son of a bitch.”
55:22: Kansas legislature passes “Vern Miller Law” prohibiting resistance of an obviously unlawful arrest.
56:09: Runs for Attorney General, divorces wife for campaign.
57:02–62:10: Breaks up a high school race riot by wading in and brawling with teenagers, later using black eye as campaign branding.
69:12–71:10: Infamous Amtrak raids—arrests service staff for serving interstate liquor, grounds the train until new staff arrives.
72:47: Fanatical letter from circus fan Julian Jimenez following media criticism.
74:49–74:56: Airlines also stop serving booze in Kansas airspace.
76:57–80:01: Nighttime blacked-out raids on elite clubs in Great Bend; grabs money for school fund.
80:35–81:05: Miller exposes his own party’s bribery scandal; subsequently abandoned by Democrats and loses governor’s race by a small margin.
82:21: Tackles nude protester at an anti-porn event with Anita Bryant.
84:09: Eventually retires, travels, and dies in 2021 at age 92.

Tone & Style

The episode is raucously comedic, fast-paced, and irreverent.
Dave’s narrative is interrupted (and enriched) by Gareth’s relentless jokes, tangents, and (sometimes surreal) improvised character bits.
The tone fluctuates between satirical disbelief and dark amusement at law enforcement history and the American penchant for “folk hero” tough guys.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a wild, comedic trip through the life of a controversial American law enforcer whose “direct action” methods and disregard for both due process and common sense made him a legend — and a warning.
Dave and Gareth combine historical detail with improvisational riffing, making the show both educational and uproariously funny.
The episode is packed with real and imagined quotes, running gags about hiding in trunks, and a scathing satire of America’s relationship with law, order, and prohibition.

In Short:

If you like tales of over-the-top, old-school policing and the often-absurd history of “law and order” in the heartland—with comedic asides about donkeys, trunk-based policing, and 1970s anti-fun crusades—this is a Dollop classic not to be missed.