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Gareth Reynolds
I'm Kiana. And I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business, but Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like I can't stop. I'm addicted.
Dave Anthony
Start your free trial@shopify.com.
Gareth Reynolds
okay. Ready if you're ready, buddy.
Dave Anthony
You're listening to the Dollop. I realize I should have looked up this guy's name.
Gareth Reynolds
Dave Anthony. We're in the intro.
Dave Anthony
This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from America. American history. To that
Gareth Reynolds
a man, a real. A Bruce Springsteen type, Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. Whoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real Springsteen type. How many bandanas you got on you?
Dave Anthony
None. I don't know. 500 from the west Coast. We don't fucking care. You guys can have your.
Gareth Reynolds
What do you do with a. What do you do with your hands after an oil change?
Dave Anthony
About a train or some shit?
Gareth Reynolds
When you do your oil change, what do you wipe your hands down with? I use rags. Same rag I wipe my mouth with after I finish whatever the missus put in the lunch pail.
Dave Anthony
You're like a billionaire.
Gareth Reynolds
I live in a one bedroom shanty on a waterbed that doesn't have water anymore. On a waterbed with no more water. It's pretty flat. Just ask my granddaughter why we're falling apart.
Dave Anthony
Ask your granddaughter?
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Anthony
You want me to ask your granddaughter about your waterbed? The fuck is going on?
Gareth Reynolds
I've used this rag about a thousand times. Now I'm riding lots of little rhymes in my diary.
Dave Anthony
What?
Gareth Reynolds
It's got kittens on the front. I'm in eighth grade. My name's Matilda.
Dave Anthony
Eighth grade?
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah.
Dave Anthony
Your name's Matilda?
Gareth Reynolds
That's right.
Dave Anthony
Jesus Christ. Bruce has really fallen off. It's really falling off.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm a frog inside of an aquarium.
Dave Anthony
What?
Gareth Reynolds
I drink milk and have a thumb. I'm a freak of life.
Dave Anthony
Wait, you're a frog that drinks milk in an aquarium and you have a thumb?
Gareth Reynolds
We just won the fricking Super Bowl. Now we're having roast beef on a casarol. It's lunchtime in Prague.
Dave Anthony
Prague. I feel like you're just rhyming for the sake of rhyming and a lot of what you're saying doesn't make sense.
Gareth Reynolds
Hey, I'm working at the best bar. This is the place to get the Best buys. Blue shirt.
Dave Anthony
What?
Gareth Reynolds
No name tag.
Dave Anthony
April 17, 1818. Now, I should have looked up how to say this guy's name. Amasa. A M A S a. Amasa.
Gareth Reynolds
Hey, whites.
Dave Anthony
I got a yes. I knew someone would know because he's from around here.
Gareth Reynolds
Ish.
Dave Anthony
Amasa Stone Jr. Was born in Charlton, Massachusetts, home of the canal, that stuff. He was the ninth of 10 children. His parents were Amasa and Esther, and they lived on a farm. And Amasser worked there and went to school. Usually they just do one or the other.
Gareth Reynolds
Sure, right.
Dave Anthony
At 17, he moved to Worcester, which is a town that says its name wrong, to apprentice as a carpenter and builder with his older brother Daniel. That's exciting.
Gareth Reynolds
That is.
Dave Anthony
He was good at it. And he was strong. He bought out his apprenticeship within two years. By 21, he was a foreman. He went into business on his own, building houses. And the first one he was paid with a note from a manufacturing company. It's pretty sweet.
Gareth Reynolds
Dear master, that was so cool of you. We don't have the money, but ego. Yeah.
Dave Anthony
Congratulations. P.S.
Gareth Reynolds
i don't know. We don't. No one's ever written P.S. before.
Dave Anthony
First P.S. hey, you're welcome.
Gareth Reynolds
The first P.S. must have been weird.
Dave Anthony
Oh yeah. Who did that?
Gareth Reynolds
P.S. the fuck is this? What? P.S. post Script, my friend.
Dave Anthony
And then the company failed right after, so he didn't get any money. And then he's in, you know, dire straits. But he keeps on. He doesn't stop. He's overseeing the building of homes and churches on his own. And in 1840, he starts working for his brother in law, William Howe. Howe had invented a unique bridge truss that supported heavy loads over short spans. Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm not that excited about it. All right. Heavy loads over short spans. Okay.
Dave Anthony
And they used it to build the first railroad bridge over the Connecticut River.
Gareth Reynolds
Okay, so that's big.
Dave Anthony
It's huge.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, it's awesome. Good for them.
Dave Anthony
And then I'm also got a local businessman, Azariah Booty.
Gareth Reynolds
That's nice.
Dave Anthony
That's not a good name.
Gareth Reynolds
No, it is a booty
Dave Anthony
to back him.
Gareth Reynolds
And he bought the horse, Booty backed him,
Dave Anthony
and he bought the patent rights to house trusts for all of New England for $40.
Gareth Reynolds
Seems low.
Dave Anthony
It sounds like he licensed it for New England.
Gareth Reynolds
Okay, so he's just getting paid a royalty basically for his bridge trust.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, but that sounds low. But in Today's money that's 1.3 million.
Gareth Reynolds
Still sounds low. I'll be honest, for a fucking game. Changing Bridge Trust.
Dave Anthony
Did I say $40?
Gareth Reynolds
You said 40.
Dave Anthony
Oh, 40,000.
Gareth Reynolds
That makes way more sense. 40 seems terrible.
Dave Anthony
Imagine if $40 is now $40.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, I'm in. Wait. What are you doing? Trust me. I got this. That's two haircuts. This fly. Have you seen this fly on cocaine up here?
Dave Anthony
I love it.
Gareth Reynolds
That fly is fucking ready to go.
Dave Anthony
There's no no way Luke didn't bring that in.
Gareth Reynolds
I was gonna. Maybe Luke turned into a fly. Oh, don't look around. You're not gonna be happy. Yeah, it's not so easy now, is it?
Dave Anthony
Luke? Do your magic. Okay. So, okay. Amasa gets married.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, good.
Dave Anthony
1842. To Julia Ann Gleason. In 1845, Amasa became the construction superintendent of the New Haven, Hartford and Springfield Railroad. The N A N H H S N S. The NH Rolls off the.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, clearly.
Dave Anthony
But it was too much, and he resigned. The next year. That year, hurricane washed out a railroad bridge over the Connecticut river. And a ton of traffic went over the bridge, and they needed it rebuilt quick. So they hired a massa. And he did it in 40 days, which no one thought was possible. And the railroad gave him a $35,000 bonus.
Gareth Reynolds
Whoa.
Dave Anthony
That's like a million.
Gareth Reynolds
$1 million in today's money.
Dave Anthony
He dissolved the company with booty soon after and went into business with a new partner.
Gareth Reynolds
Been there.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, girl. Amaso is now New England's top railroad contractor.
Gareth Reynolds
Huh. All right, so he's top. Okay. Oh, wow. Finally, we get picture. A man from the 1850s. Bald, facial hair, looks like Bram Stoker was around. He has maybe some extra fingers. It's hard to tell.
Dave Anthony
But he wanted to go bigger and made a partnership with Frederick Harbachen, Stillman Witt.
Gareth Reynolds
Abraham Lincoln, if he shaved and didn't wear the hat.
Dave Anthony
To build the northern half of the Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati Railroad, which was begun in 1836, but had been very problematic. And then in 1837, a panic hit. Financial panic. And at one point, the owners, to keep their charter from being revoked, hired just a single worker with a shovel and a wheelbarrow to work on it.
Gareth Reynolds
Wait. What is it you want me to do?
Dave Anthony
You are going to build a railroad.
Gareth Reynolds
Where's all the other fellas?
Dave Anthony
We're counting on you.
Gareth Reynolds
But you ain't got nothing. It's nowhere near completed.
Dave Anthony
That's why we gave you a shovel. Harbach, Stone and Witt took the project over and just. Just to be paid in stock. And since they didn't take money, they got a higher than normal fee. And the CCNC opened in February 1851. Instant hit. People loved it. Yeah, money rolling in. Okay, so Amasa now moves his family to Cleveland
Gareth Reynolds
and adjacent areas.
Dave Anthony
His wife Julia's son Adelbert.
Gareth Reynolds
Who is Kent named? Just some guy. Hi, I'm Kent. Jesus Christ, Kent. Are you sure? Yep, that's it.
Dave Anthony
So his wife Julia, his son Adelbert and daughter.
Gareth Reynolds
Fuck. These names are absolutely fucking lud. I mean, I'm trying to hang in there, but. Adelbert, Adelbert, Adelbert, Adelbert, Adelbert. I'll tell you what, Adelbert, Adelbert. Neither one's making me go.
Dave Anthony
I want to say Adelbert Mayhey. Adelbert is fucking still dumb.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah,
Dave Anthony
Adelbert. And daughters Clara and Flora or Clara and Flora or Flora Stone became the superintendent of the CCNC making $4,000 a year. Then they built the Cleveland, Painesville and Ashtabala railroad in.
Gareth Reynolds
You guys have gotten too comfortable.
Dave Anthony
Ashtabula. You can't give me shit for that one because that's ashtabula railroad in 1852. MASA is the director of the boards on both and he's president of the cpna. Amasa built a huge mansion on Euclid Avenue in an area that will be called Millionaires Row. Oh, he oversaw construction.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, Jesus Christ. Wow.
Dave Anthony
It's a fucking big house that.
Gareth Reynolds
Really? Yeah, that is.
Dave Anthony
What are you gonna do with that?
Gareth Reynolds
I mean that. But by the way, by today's standards, that's nothing.
Dave Anthony
It's nothing. I know, but.
Gareth Reynolds
But back then they're like, whoa, two bedrooms, two bath. Whoa.
Dave Anthony
The outer walls were two feet wide with.
Gareth Reynolds
Whoa. Well, that is a brag.
Dave Anthony
With an 8 in 8 inch hollow space in the middle.
Gareth Reynolds
What?
Dave Anthony
I guess that's to keep it warmer, right? I would think.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, you got to put something in there.
Dave Anthony
No, you just hollow it out.
Gareth Reynolds
Just hollow. Just 8 inches. Perfect size for a man.
Dave Anthony
You could get a thin guy in there.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, if you need. That's what we're not doing any sort of insulation. We're putting a bunch of thin guys in there. Hello. Quiet please. That was not part of the job.
Dave Anthony
Hello.
Gareth Reynolds
Stop it now. It's actually very cold in here.
Dave Anthony
I understand. It's not great right now.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm very cold. Are you going to insulate the house?
Dave Anthony
In about 10 days you won't hear anything anymore.
Gareth Reynolds
Hello? Oh my God. Are you having coffee? I would murder for some coffee. What are you guys talking about in there? Hello? Hello? Don't answer. I can hear you, though. Your walls are very thin. You built two thin walls with a room for a man in between.
Dave Anthony
We're trying to have dinner.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, what are you having?
Dave Anthony
Just not really.
Gareth Reynolds
Let's play a game. Last meal. You gotta pick. And only one type. You can't say Mexican with pizza.
Dave Anthony
I have a different idea. Let's play. Let's play hide and seek. And you hide.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, I can't go very far. These walls are thin. I'll go first. I think just pizza and Pepsi. I'd do pizza and Pepsi, but I'd want an extra large pizza, half veggie.
Dave Anthony
I don't think there's Pepsi yet.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, all right. I'll just have the pizza. What would you have? What would you have? What would be your last meal? What would you have for your last meal? What would your last meal be? Hello? If you're not careful, I'll tell you Another one that I'd have. I'd have another one. Chicken tacos. No, egg rolls. You know, I know. I'm the guy who said you can't combine. I would have chicken tacos with egg rolls and I'd put the egg rolls inside the tacos. How about that? I know you're in there. And even if you're not, I won't.
Dave Anthony
Eventually you will.
Gareth Reynolds
I'd like. I'd like to meet a woman in here for a drink.
Dave Anthony
The whole plan is just to have you die in there.
Gareth Reynolds
So I ate a huge meal before I came in here, which would make you think I wouldn't want to talk about last meals so much.
Dave Anthony
Where are you going to go do your business.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm doing my business. I'm doing all of it right here. I've even treated myself to a little special time. That's right. Those weren't knocks.
Dave Anthony
Okay.
Gareth Reynolds
It'll be easier to wallpaper now. Jesus.
Dave Anthony
It was modern, with running water, gas fixtures and central heating. It was an Italian villa style he found. He founded the Union Club in Cleveland, which was for Cleveland's elite. It still is, apparently. Ex members include two presidents. He built the Michigan Southern Road. Linked it with the CPA Railroad. He and others built the short but vital Cleveland and Newburgh line. For industry. He invited in a mill and the Western Union Telegraph Company. Became director of several banks and president of the Second National Bank. Hugely influential in the area. Yes, right.
Gareth Reynolds
A magnate.
Dave Anthony
Yes. And after this, by the Civil War, Amaso was the big Cleveland mover. And Shaker. And he was on the board or president of several railroads, banks. He was an abolitionist.
Gareth Reynolds
Okay, he's still a rich prick, but.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, yeah, he's still his son. I mean, he was walling humans and like. He's not.
Gareth Reynolds
Excuse me. I don't care for the way you said that.
Dave Anthony
You were walled off to die.
Gareth Reynolds
I can leave when I choose to.
Dave Anthony
Okay.
Gareth Reynolds
I like it in here.
Dave Anthony
He supported the election of Abraham Lincoln in 1860. And then Lincoln turned to Amasa for help with military supply and transportation. Most of his railroads were used to support the Union, and it made Amasa a millionaire. Ah, war profiteering.
Gareth Reynolds
Nice.
Dave Anthony
Yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
Imagine,
Dave Anthony
Amasa did help with relief funds for the families of local volunteers, and he raised money to recruit more soldiers during the war. He was only upset with the Union when his son went to fight.
Gareth Reynolds
Hmm. What'd you say? I'm behind this painting. Okay.
Dave Anthony
All right. Thank you. You should have been dead a long fucking time ago.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, I've got news for you. I found some bread. I want a pet. I want a bird. I want to have a bird in here with me.
Dave Anthony
You are the pet.
Gareth Reynolds
I deserve a bird.
Dave Anthony
No, you don't.
Gareth Reynolds
I deserve a tiny bird. Alfie told him. I'll name it.
Dave Anthony
No.
Gareth Reynolds
No matter if it's a boy or a girl.
Dave Anthony
Shut up.
Gareth Reynolds
But I'll have a fun time figuring out.
Dave Anthony
Nobody will. Nobody's having a fun time. You're a tedious little man stuck in a wall. You're like the anti Houdini just sitting in your little fucking wall space. Everybody is annoyed by you.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, your home seems pretty warm.
Dave Anthony
Amasa wanted Adelbert to help run his empire and wanted him to go to Yale and study engineering. But weeks after the war ended, Amasa got word that his son had died. Not in the war. Oh, at Yale.
Gareth Reynolds
Jesus. That's a fucking roller coaster. Fortunately, his son passed away. Those God damn troops. I can't believe it. They killed him. They killed him. They killed my only boy.
Dave Anthony
It was at Yale.
Gareth Reynolds
Ah. What? What was he over there for? Wasn't he in the war?
Dave Anthony
He was enjoying books and whatnot.
Gareth Reynolds
Wait, what? Those God damn yay leaves?
Dave Anthony
Yes.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm gonna tell him that he was killed by the enemy.
Dave Anthony
That's fine.
Gareth Reynolds
Thank you.
Dave Anthony
The enemy is Harvard.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, God. My boy was killed by Harvard during the Civil War.
Dave Anthony
He actually drowned in the Connecticut river while on a field trip. And he had decided to go swimming and got cramps.
Gareth Reynolds
Got cramps?
Dave Anthony
That's it. If you got cramps.
Gareth Reynolds
That was the first time someone Swam too close to eating. That's right. Ah. From now on, we will wait 45 minutes every time a child swims. That we will remind them. No. 45 minutes is how long you'll wait. That's when it goes down. If only there had been a bridge with a special truss underneath it.
Dave Anthony
Excuse me.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, hello?
Dave Anthony
What in the fuck are you talking about?
Gareth Reynolds
I don't know. Most of my days are spent with a wall, pal. Not really good out anymore.
Dave Anthony
So. A lot of people believe Amasa never recovered from the death of his son. A couple Years later, in October 1867, Amasa was riding through Cleveland's public square and he was in a carriage with a banker. And then the carriage hit a gutter and the seat they were sitting on slid backwards.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, my God.
Dave Anthony
And they were both thrown to the ground and Amasa was severely injured.
Gareth Reynolds
What kind of str. What?
Dave Anthony
It's a special feature.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, did you want me to put that down with like a screw or a nail or something? I didn't know. Jesus Christ. We hit a bump up, we both almost died. Sorry about that.
Dave Anthony
A massive hit the back of his head.
Gareth Reynolds
Jesus.
Dave Anthony
And for the rest of his life, he would be in pain and walk with a serious limp.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, fuck.
Dave Anthony
Now he is. He is large with a big old mustache and a medium sized beard. Balding.
Gareth Reynolds
He's large.
Dave Anthony
Combed back. Yeah, he's large. He's actually a big boy.
Gareth Reynolds
He's tall.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, he was tall. He's a big guy. Amasa was known as one of the top wooden bridge builders in the United States.
Gareth Reynolds
That's a Tinder profile.
Dave Anthony
Ladies love a man who works with wood. But railroads were replacing wooden bridges with iron and stone ones. And for a lakeshore railroad iron bridge, he insisted on using a specific truss. And an engineer told him the beams were inadequate for the length of the span.
Gareth Reynolds
Right. We're all following.
Dave Anthony
He fired the engineer.
Gareth Reynolds
Smart. Yep. Get him out of here.
Dave Anthony
You do?
Gareth Reynolds
Yep. And then you do it.
Dave Anthony
And then the chief engineer then resigned. Instead of building it.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. That's the Monday morning massacre.
Dave Anthony
So Amasa got an engineer who would do it his way.
Gareth Reynolds
That's perfect.
Dave Anthony
The right way.
Gareth Reynolds
Robert Bork. Okay.
Dave Anthony
He, Amasa later called the design quote experimental.
Gareth Reynolds
It was an experimental train. I didn't realize people were going to be on it. Experimenting upon was a goof. We were having a larf.
Dave Anthony
Well, he got it built.
Gareth Reynolds
Yep.
Dave Anthony
He also went on to help build the Union Depot. He incorporated the Northern Ohio Fair Association. He founded the Union Steel Screw Company, established the home for the agency. Protestant gentlewomen.
Gareth Reynolds
That is one title.
Dave Anthony
The Aged Protestant Home for the Aged Protestant Gentlewomen. Get the fuck out of here, you Catholic. This home ain't for you. Go get in the mud.
Gareth Reynolds
You check every box. But you're not gentle. Fuck you.
Dave Anthony
You're at sea.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, just because you told me some bad news.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, but I'm sorry, it was a test.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, I'd like to come back in now.
Dave Anthony
You're out, you Catholic whore.
Gareth Reynolds
What type of Protestant.
Dave Anthony
Go get in the mud where you belong, Catholic woman. This is for Protestant gentlewomen.
Gareth Reynolds
So have you been sending all the Catholics to the mud?
Dave Anthony
Yes.
Gareth Reynolds
It's starting to change the vibe of the outside of this area.
Dave Anthony
Well, we'll get more mud.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, why don't you just tell them no? Then they can go figure out what their next step is. No. Well, we've really got a lot of Catholic women out there in the mud and they're starting to wrestle.
Dave Anthony
That's wonderful news.
Gareth Reynolds
No, it's not. It's. They're wrestling out there and I don't know, a crowd of men have gathered around. It's really not the vibe we're going for. This is for Protestant gentlewomen who are old, charge a cover profit. Look, we're really trying to do something different. And I don't know if we should have Catholic women wrestling out there.
Dave Anthony
Catholic women make the best mud freaks.
Gareth Reynolds
You know what? This is why my wife said to not get into business with you, and I really didn't even. Let me guess. Go outside. Get in the mud. I. Get in the mud, you son of a bitch. All right. Okay.
Dave Anthony
His daughter Clara married in 1874. And he got a son in law to fill in for the part of his now dead son.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, that's cool. I bet that was cool.
Dave Anthony
That's.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, yeah, very casual. I love the wedding photographer. Now pretend your hips out of socket and you're gonna bash it back in. There we are. Good, good, good, good, good. Pretend if you were a mermaid, but you're not on the beach. On your side, you're standing and you've just gotten your fresh legs, lady. There you are, Clara. Perfect. All right. Tomorrow we'll do some with your husband. But until then, hurt your ribs. There we are.
Dave Anthony
Now get in the mud.
Gareth Reynolds
No, no, no. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Now. Sorry. My beautiful, beautiful.
Dave Anthony
You're wonderful.
Gareth Reynolds
Good.
Dave Anthony
Like to see you in the mud. So she marries John Hay. So Hay was a writer, diplomat and secretary to Abraham Lincoln.
Gareth Reynolds
Whoa. You'll stay late tonight. Lose the Coat. This war is just not as civil as I hoped it would be. Thirsty?
Dave Anthony
Yes.
Gareth Reynolds
Take some notes for me.
Dave Anthony
Go ahead.
Gareth Reynolds
What's my wife's name again?
Dave Anthony
Let's go with Helen.
Gareth Reynolds
I don't believe it is. I almost said Martha. Hold on, we'll get there. Betty. Mary Todd.
Dave Anthony
Sad one. Oh, my kids are dead. Shut up. Get in the mud.
Gareth Reynolds
Come on. Come on. Stop. Stop. Larry the Cable guying this. You are 100% gonna get a show called get in the Mud. All right, Dave. Cameron Diaz. She came out of the spotlight for a little while, but she's back. What do you think? Do we let her back into Hollywood or is she gonna get in that mud?
Dave Anthony
Oh, well, I think we oughta get her in the mud.
Gareth Reynolds
There we go. We're brought to you by Zins. Zins is a pure rush of nicotine.
Dave Anthony
So Amasa built the young couple a mansion next door.
Gareth Reynolds
Sad telling. Hey, you need someone to get inside of that wall. I have a baby in here with me now. I've had a boy. Ow. How? What? How did you have a baby with my wife, fool.
Dave Anthony
Okay. What?
Gareth Reynolds
She passed away, though. 15 years ago.
Dave Anthony
How do you have a baby then?
Gareth Reynolds
Well, that's a fair question. When she passed away, my son ended up meeting someone too, and they had a baby. It's a grandchild. It's my grandkid. It's my grandkid in here. There's a bunch of us, so if you need someone to go in their walls to insulate it, that'd be fine. We are a whole flock in here now. I'm an old man.
Dave Anthony
Amasa told the neighbors he was, quote, building a barn for his hay.
Gareth Reynolds
Have a good life.
Dave Anthony
His name's John A. Get it? It's funny.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, it's very funny.
Dave Anthony
I'm sure he was walking around telling everyone that. Line a building in front of building a barn for hay.
Gareth Reynolds
Uh huh. Amasa.
Dave Anthony
Hey, Frank.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah?
Dave Anthony
Building a barn for hay?
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. That's normal. Don't you dare say it to me. If you fucking tell me that, I'm not going to get my hay. No. What? It's terrible. His sequel's awful
Dave Anthony
on Disney too. Get in the hay.
Gareth Reynolds
Jesus, this is bad.
Dave Anthony
Hae increased Amas's government connections. His daughter Flora then married rising industrialist Samuel Mather. Outside of his small circle of family, Amasa was known as a real son of a bitch.
Gareth Reynolds
Okay.
Dave Anthony
Business associates and friends found him cold, stern, and unapproachable.
Gareth Reynolds
He was rich.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, well, other rich guys don't like him.
Gareth Reynolds
He was really rich.
Dave Anthony
A historian. Quote, almost everybody feared Stone's arbitrary ways, his harsh temper and his biting tongue. Amasa was an early investor in Rockefeller's Standard Oil company, buying 500 shares.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, that'll be good.
Dave Anthony
Then, as director of the Lakeshore Railroad, he gave Rockefeller a series of rebates, which led to Standard Oil dominating the oil industry. If you can imagine a company giving money to another. Oh, my God. That's what's happening with AI.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, except oil's real.
Dave Anthony
We're gonna get killed now,
Gareth Reynolds
Dave. We're gonna get killed. Anyway,
Dave Anthony
he was on the Standard Oiled board, but he was very irritated that Rockefeller, a guy 20 years younger, was calling the shots. So Amasa was the rich guy in Cleveland, worth 6 million. And Rockefeller was younger than. Than most of the other robber barons. And smarter. It seems he was also new to this, and not many actually knew his name. Papers would call him Rockefeller or Rock, a feller. And again, he seemed. It seemed like no one really liked Amasa. One writer called Amasa dictatorial. A big novelist wrote a portrait of him using the name Aaron Grimstone.
Gareth Reynolds
What? Wait, the writer did?
Dave Anthony
Yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
Okay, he's calling him Aaron Grimstone. He's like, you motherfucker.
Dave Anthony
Another person said, quote, the richest man in Cleveland, and he'll have the smallest funeral.
Gareth Reynolds
Dude. Major Musk. Vibes. Major.
Dave Anthony
But Amasa always acted as if he was above Rockefeller. And all the other guys on the board treated Rockefeller with respect. Respect and like he was smart. And then in 1872, Rockefeller approached the Second national bank for a big loan. He wanted rapid expansion. But Amasa was the director of the bank, and he was thinking we should go slow. And because Rockefeller was younger, Amasa expected him to be humble and just kind of beg a little bit.
Gareth Reynolds
Just kind of beg a little bit. Come on, kiss the glove. Come on, come on, come on. You know you want it.
Dave Anthony
Come on. Come to Amasa.
Gareth Reynolds
Say please. Please. Please.
Dave Anthony
And Rockefeller did not. And so Amasa got really pissed, and he opposed the loan. And then they argued, and Rockefeller went straight to the board to make his case. Quote. Rockefeller spoke with an authority born of his mastery of every detail of the oil business, answering Stone with relentless facts and arguments. Amasa began to raise his voice. And then finally, he pounded on the table.
Gareth Reynolds
Get in the mud. Get in the mud. If you get in the mud, you get the loan. The loan is somewhere deep in the mud. Dig around like it's double dare.
Dave Anthony
And then Amasa had a stroke of genius. Quote. Gentlemen, I am willing to arbitrate this dispute. Let Mr. Rockefeller and my safe lay our views in detail before two stockholders, Henry Payne and Stillman Witt.
Gareth Reynolds
So he wants to Shark Tank it?
Dave Anthony
Yeah, kind of.
Gareth Reynolds
He.
Dave Anthony
He. I think he. Well, he thinks those. These guys ohm. A little bit. So he's like, I'll pick two guys.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, that'll fancy him. Yeah, but Rockefeller is far more compelling. And.
Dave Anthony
Well. Yeah, yeah. And he's like, I'll abide by the judgment. And these.
Gareth Reynolds
Rockefeller is.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, no, both. They both do. But it's like, I'll abide by it. But these two guys kind of. They idolize Amasa.
Gareth Reynolds
Like, right?
Dave Anthony
He's the big man in town, right? And Rockefeller's like, yeah, sure, because he knows he's right. And he was. The four guys meet, and Rockefeller and Amasa each give their presentations. And then the two guys start asking questions. And as they're asking questions, it becomes pretty clear that they're favoring Rockefeller. And Amasa says, quote. Gentlemen, remember who appointed you as arbitrators.
Gareth Reynolds
Might I remind you, you owe me everything.
Dave Anthony
Oh, gentlemen, who owns the mud?
Gareth Reynolds
We're just listening to both sides. We told you that's what we'd do. Rockefeller seems a little more prepared. If I may. Okay, sit and settle. Settle down.
Dave Anthony
Bite your face off.
Gareth Reynolds
What do you mean? Stop it.
Dave Anthony
I'm gonna bite your fucking face off.
Gareth Reynolds
Amasa.
Dave Anthony
You fucking shit.
Gareth Reynolds
Bear, you stop it.
Dave Anthony
You little fucking shit.
Gareth Reynolds
Look, you're not helping your case at
Dave Anthony
all, you fucking fuck. You arbitrating little fuck bag.
Gareth Reynolds
You stop it now. That's it. We are gonna pick Rockefeller if you keep going. No. Nobody's getting in the goddamn. First of all, there's not even mud near here.
Dave Anthony
Go in the wall of my house. What?
Gareth Reynolds
What?
Dave Anthony
In the wall.
Gareth Reynolds
What do you mean?
Dave Anthony
In my castle, where you will die.
Gareth Reynolds
What? Get in the wall of your house. What are you even talking? Is there anyone in the house Walls?
Dave Anthony
I rest my case.
Gareth Reynolds
What the fuck? You didn't even say anything.
Dave Anthony
I did. Let's just do what I want.
Gareth Reynolds
God damn it. Okay, all right. Look, look. Stop making that noise and let Rockefeller pitch. Stop it. Amasa. Amasa, Amasa, Amasa.
Dave Anthony
I'm richer than you.
Gareth Reynolds
Okay, well, I think we'll take a minute and we will render our decision shortly.
Dave Anthony
Thank you.
Gareth Reynolds
You're very welcome. This was a lot of fun. And then they're in the waiting room. We both lost our cool back there a little bit.
Dave Anthony
So both the arbitrators agree with Rockefeller. And Amasa is furious. And he storms out. And after this. Their relationship rapidly deteriorated. But a few weeks later, Amassa asks for an extension because he missed an option to buy more stock in Standard Oil.
Gareth Reynolds
So funny. I know. Who does he have to ask? Rockefeller.
Dave Anthony
Yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
Hey, could you. I goofed. I Forgot we had 30 days in this month, not 31. So, mind if I grab another few? How you been, by the way? How crazy was that back there at that pitch? That was wild. Congratulations again. That was awesome how you closed that deal.
Dave Anthony
You stabbed. Stabbed the arbitrators.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, no, no, no. Well, no. Well, I impaled one of them and then I did stab the other one, but. Gosh, it's so good to see you. Have you gained weight? You look fatter.
Dave Anthony
No. What?
Gareth Reynolds
I would love to buy some more of those shares.
Dave Anthony
No.
Gareth Reynolds
Come here.
Dave Anthony
Nope.
Gareth Reynolds
Come on. I love you.
Dave Anthony
I don't love you.
Gareth Reynolds
I think we should restart. Let's be best friends. No. Here's. Here we are together forever. Two best friends doing it together. Well, it doesn't matter. I have a lot of money, too. Can I buy some more shares? No. They're called shares because you're not supposed to hoard them. Let some of the other fellas have some, would you?
Dave Anthony
Other people?
Gareth Reynolds
There's enough mud in this trough for all the piggies, dickwad. Come on now.
Dave Anthony
So Rockefeller says no, and Amasa completely loses his shit. And he gets so pissed off that he sells all his stock. He thinks it's.
Gareth Reynolds
That's so. Fuck.
Dave Anthony
He thinks it's gonna hurt the company if he sells all the stock.
Gareth Reynolds
Fine. Well, I sold all the stock. I just wanted more of. Ha, ha, ha.
Dave Anthony
Fuck you.
Gareth Reynolds
Bingo.
Dave Anthony
But it doesn't hurt, Rockefeller, because other guys just immediately wanted to buy it.
Gareth Reynolds
Can I have that stock back? No. Please?
Dave Anthony
No.
Gareth Reynolds
Give me the 500 shares from before.
Dave Anthony
No.
Gareth Reynolds
Let me marry into your family.
Dave Anthony
Well, there's a guy in the wall.
Gareth Reynolds
Wait.
Dave Anthony
And then there's a bunch of mud
Gareth Reynolds
ladies in your wall.
Dave Anthony
Who am I?
Gareth Reynolds
You're not the guy with a mud family in the wall. That's me. Unless you and I have a lot more weird shit in common than I could have ever known about.
Dave Anthony
I'm doing role play. Sorry.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, okay. Well, you freaked me out there for a minute. Cause I have three generations of one guy living in my walls. And let me tell you, I never put the fire on.
Dave Anthony
So December 29, 1876. There is a blizzard and it.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm quite warm in my home. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. It's freezing in the walls.
Dave Anthony
Okay.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, yeah, I Don't think we're all gonna make it.
Dave Anthony
You were supposed to have died 30 fucking years ago.
Gareth Reynolds
We're gonna have to start eating some of the other family. Unless you let us out.
Dave Anthony
Good.
Gareth Reynolds
We could. We're freezing in here, man.
Dave Anthony
Eat each other. Just shut the fuck up.
Gareth Reynolds
I'll tell you what. All right, all right. Let's just do this to pass the time. Last meal. And which relative would you make it out of? I do Uncle Pasta. Okay. What about you?
Dave Anthony
I'm not doing this.
Gareth Reynolds
Come on, it'll pass the time. No. Come on, it'll be fun.
Dave Anthony
It's not fun.
Gareth Reynolds
Ah,
Dave Anthony
I should have put you in the mud.
Gareth Reynolds
Enchiladad.
Dave Anthony
So there's a blizzard. A train leaves Erie, Pennsylvania, headed for Cleveland.
Gareth Reynolds
Hilarious. I mean, please, We've been.
Dave Anthony
We've been there.
Gareth Reynolds
A train left Erie, Pennsylvania. Look. Yeah, yeah, Erie.
Dave Anthony
Woo.
Gareth Reynolds
Best place to leave on a train. Get the fuck out of there. Our town should be called Creepy.
Dave Anthony
So because of all the snow from the blizzard, they have two locomotives going. So it's crossing over the bridge and. Oh, this is the exact same bridge that Amasa fired the engineer to build it.
Gareth Reynolds
Now wait a minute, they're gonna bridge over the river Quaya or whatever. Oh no. And then it does look a little toothpicky.
Dave Anthony
Then the train engineer hears a crack. And he feels the train drop a bit and he realizes the bridge is collapsing. So he opens the throttle up.
Gareth Reynolds
Smart.
Dave Anthony
And that locomotive makes it.
Gareth Reynolds
See, he's like the Sully.
Dave Anthony
But the connection between the rest of the train snapped.
Gareth Reynolds
But he makes it.
Dave Anthony
He's fine.
Gareth Reynolds
That's awesome. That's all that matters. Well, that was close. Holy shit. I'm fucking lucky as hell. That's a lot of dead folk down yonder.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Yeah, yeah.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
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Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Yes.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Whatever it is.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Cares. Yeah.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
I think that the point is that
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
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Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
And we sit in on those. Dave and I sit in on those. Not a lot of people know that Dave and I are in on those. We're on those zooms the whole time.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Yeah.
Dave Anthony
And of course I'm talking about Mint Mobile.
Gareth Reynolds
We love them.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
It's the same, same, same towers. You get your phone number, you get your phone. You know, I mean, really, there's, there's no downside.
Dave Anthony
It's just way less.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. And there's just been one rumor that we've dispelled on this show, but outside of that, it's been perfect. Literally not even worth getting into mobile. There have been people who, that I know who I've worked with who have suggested that the phone will start its flavor profile, which is, that's actually the cord. What do you mean?
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
And I'll tell you, the cord was the thing that was supposed to taste good.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
I'm gonna plug it in.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Yes. Same. No Mint, no Mint. Nope. Wrong.
Dave Anthony
That's weird.
Gareth Reynolds
It's not weird. That is it.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
I think I'm not tasting anything to do with the phone ever again. Period. We're intimate mobile. I'm not licking any more stuff.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Ask me, ask me. Name a thing.
Dave Anthony
SEO tools, yes.
Gareth Reynolds
Search engine optimization. I'm a big fan of that. But other things, it helps you with your merch, it helps you with your building, helps you pick a name. Squarespace is there for you. You remember that movie Rocky? Remember the guy in the corner? Mickey?
Dave Anthony
Yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
Squarespace is your Mickey.
Dave Anthony
Interesting.
Gareth Reynolds
Come on, Dave. You can build your website. You can do your website, right?
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Put your toenail on there, Dave, and
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
You want video content or your SEO tools? You got it.
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Are we, Dave, or are we just every. Are we just using it for every website we're associated with?
Dave Anthony
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Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. What? It's like a Mission Impossible.
Dave Anthony
The cars fell on top of each other.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, no.
Dave Anthony
And then the top of the bridge fell on top of the cars. And then more train cars fell on top of that.
Gareth Reynolds
What? Another train came, and then cars were
Dave Anthony
smashing into each other. Like a sleeper car landed right side,
Gareth Reynolds
not the sleeper car.
Dave Anthony
Then another.
Gareth Reynolds
You know, I'm having a weird moment.
Dave Anthony
Then another sleeper car landed on top of that and crushed it, killing most people inside. Now the water is six feet deep and covered in eight inches of ice. And the last car hits and sticks, and then water and ice and snow rushed in, and everyone in that car died. Wow. So,
Gareth Reynolds
boy, that fucking. The head engineer was like, oh, shit. That was lucky.
Dave Anthony
Now they could hear the crash at the nearest station, which was just 100 yards away and in a town. And alarms go off and rescuers rush to the crash. People bring axes with them to free passengers. And those who didn't die from the crash now had another problem. The cars had coal and kerosene, heating stoves and oil lamps.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, my God.
Dave Anthony
So fires break out, and by the time the rescuers get there, the fires are burning pretty good.
Gareth Reynolds
Pretty good.
Dave Anthony
The Ashtabula fire chief was an alcoholic.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. Of course you're celebrating. I can't go down there. I'll combust. Trust me. I'm pretty much kerosene right now myself. So I don't know how we'll put those fires out. Everybody piss. If we do it enough, if we dig deep enough and we all piss at the same time, there's a good chance that we could put out all our train fires.
Dave Anthony
Hey, let's sing.
Gareth Reynolds
Let's sing.
Dave Anthony
Yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
Looking down over the long bad ridge. You gotta wonder who built this bridge. Not Rockefeller. His bridges are stellar. Don't you test me with.
Dave Anthony
So the. The fire chief.
Gareth Reynolds
It'd be great to cut the setup song at the beginning of the set. People be like, the happening.
Dave Anthony
So the fire chief, besides being an alcoholic, he's really not great at the job when he's sober.
Gareth Reynolds
So that's Why I drink.
Dave Anthony
His fire engines arrived first, but he gave no orders to fight the fire.
Gareth Reynolds
Hold. All right, everybody gossip. We'll figure this out.
Dave Anthony
And he turned and told a local that it was no use.
Gareth Reynolds
At this point, it's pointless. At this point it's just for the Graham. This is all just for the Graham. Everything's for the gram.
Dave Anthony
But it was clear people were alive and in there.
Gareth Reynolds
So he's what he's like, don't worry.
Dave Anthony
A person begged him to put water on the fire, but he said, nah, no. So townspeople tried to put out the fire with buckets of water.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh my God.
Dave Anthony
And the train cars are made of wood.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh my God. Oh my God.
Dave Anthony
The fire is now melting the ice and more cars are going into the icy water. People died from the crash, then they died from the freezing water. And they died from the fires or they died from both or all or
Gareth Reynolds
more trains falling on. Oh my God. So it is a full on blizzard, trained fire, drown. Fucking.
Dave Anthony
That's exactly what the New York Times headline was
Gareth Reynolds
of a holly jolly Christmas. It's the don't turn that way. Best time of the year. No only face this way. Holy jolly of a happy. Don't look that way. As a Christmas. Don't look that way. That man's on fire. That man's a skeleton. End of this year. Deck the halls with. Oh my God. No turn around.
Dave Anthony
Some passengers who managed to get out of the wreck drown in the river. Now the town has no hospital.
Gareth Reynolds
What the fuck? By the way, get used to that. Yeah, Just like you will get. There's a. There's a 2026 catchphrase. Now, the town had no hospital, but they didn't need one because telehealth was no longer allowed.
Dave Anthony
So they put the injured wherever they could. A train station, hotel and people's homes.
Gareth Reynolds
Train station. Excuse me, could you try harder? I understand some people are going to hotels. I'd really rather not be at the train station. I mean, I just went through a lot of trauma from the train. This is kind of a fucked up place to put. Someone who's trained. Just fell in a fire. Ice.
Dave Anthony
We're gonna put you in the bridge guard station.
Gareth Reynolds
I don't want to be near a bridge or a train station. I've just been through a lot. I just watched a lot of fellow passengers perish in front of me. Please just. Could you put me in one of the hotels or a tavern or somewhere?
Dave Anthony
What about a train car?
Gareth Reynolds
No, I don't want to be in a goddamn train Car just been through hell. Please try harder. I need you, man.
Dave Anthony
Oh, mud.
Gareth Reynolds
No, no, no, no. Oh, shit. It's you.
Dave Anthony
The town had 10 doctors. By midnight, everyone who lived was out of the wreck. And then thieves came. Stealing from the dead and wounded.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, yeah. Yes.
Dave Anthony
You're not gonna use that watch.
Gareth Reynolds
Yes, but we shouldn't have possessions. There should be nothing. Nothing should have value. Only oranges.
Dave Anthony
That was bug. Fuck crazy.
Gareth Reynolds
Of course thieves are gonna come. If you have rich and poor, thieves are gonna take dead people's watches.
Dave Anthony
In the morning, some came, by the way.
Gareth Reynolds
No way those watches are working.
Dave Anthony
They might work.
Gareth Reynolds
No, these are not swatches.
Dave Anthony
In the morning, people came and looted the train. And the mayor finally put guards around the area. 159 passengers. Only eight were not injured. About 92 died. The exact amount is not known because passengers from all over the country and they didn't know who was there and like, who was on it.
Gareth Reynolds
Wow.
Dave Anthony
They thought about 22 people couldn't be ID'd, but a lot of that was. There were just parts so they couldn't know.
Gareth Reynolds
That's terrible.
Dave Anthony
It's hard. It's a puzzle situation at that point, and puzzles are hard. Have you ever done a puzzle? And. Ah, it's all red. Where did I put the. It's hard.
Gareth Reynolds
I definitely think we're missing a piece. Hold up the box again. Oh, no. That's not how she looked at all.
Dave Anthony
She did not have four legs. What is this?
Gareth Reynolds
Yes, she did. Of course she did. Yeah, you're right.
Dave Anthony
Three bodies were never claimed.
Gareth Reynolds
Holy fuck.
Dave Anthony
An Ashtabula county coroner's inquest was held. Now, they didn't have a coroner, so the local judge picked six guys to be on the jury.
Gareth Reynolds
Wait, what?
Dave Anthony
They did a jury?
Gareth Reynolds
They didn't have a quarter, so they made a jury.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, they picked to do what? To, like, figure out what happened.
Gareth Reynolds
To piece it together.
Dave Anthony
They're like, yo, janitor, you, guy who trims edges. What are you, a banker, Frank?
Gareth Reynolds
Yep.
Dave Anthony
A Franker fire chief. Ah, fuck I that one up.
Gareth Reynolds
Yep. I'll have a lot of insights, but I am an alcoholic.
Dave Anthony
Oh, we know.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh.
Dave Anthony
The jury concluded the bridge was poorly designed.
Gareth Reynolds
All right. Good shit, idiots. Get out. Your honor, we've decided that this bridge sucked. Legally, we the jury, find the bridge. Shit.
Dave Anthony
I mean, the jury was absolute shit. The braces were not strong enough. The truss was not right for the length of the. It was under designed. And on top of that, it was poorly built.
Gareth Reynolds
Your honor, trains are super heavy. Medically speaking, the train is an extremely heavy item. Now the bridge on the other hand, was not big. The train was bigger than the bridge.
Dave Anthony
Some parts had been put in the wrong places.
Gareth Reynolds
The parts had been sort of put in the wrong places.
Dave Anthony
Shims were used to make up for parts being too short.
Gareth Reynolds
So some of the shims were. By the way, don't drive through America if that freaks you out. I. If that bothers you, I. I'd like to sell you a bridge to anywhere because there's nothing driving. We are held together by styrofoam and prayers, ladies and gentlemen. We are a highway bridge.
Dave Anthony
You go, well, that's styrofoam.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. The amount of times we like, oh God, some guy's standing on a bridge with an American flag while you're like. That bridge is held together by packaging.
Dave Anthony
Thick parts were used where thin parts were needed and vice versa.
Gareth Reynolds
I love hearing a juror say this. Thick parts where thin parts should be, thin parts where thick parts should be. The whole bridge was an upside downy nightmare factory, sir.
Dave Anthony
And then on top of that, bridge inspectors did not do their job. They did not note the problems with the bridge or how much it was coming apart over time. Also, the self extinguishing stoves were required by law and the train did not have them.
Gareth Reynolds
Self extinguishing stoves were not on there.
Dave Anthony
Automatically go out when the train crashed
Gareth Reynolds
or when there was a crazy flipp.
Dave Anthony
It's called the flip. When a train.
Gareth Reynolds
This is a flippity doo stove.
Dave Anthony
We had a big flip out there.
Gareth Reynolds
These are all air fryers.
Dave Anthony
And then of course the fire chief was.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh yeah.
Dave Anthony
Now Amasa was named as responsible for the bridge design. And then the state legislature appointed a committee to investigate. Theirs is a lot more thorough than the six random guys in the town. The chief engineer told them, quote, this is no bridge of mine. That's the president's bridge.
Gareth Reynolds
The president's bridge. Okay. Right, right.
Dave Anthony
A company lawyer said that the bridge had been as made as strong as possible and quote, if God saw fit to lower the temperature, the company could not control his actions and hence were clearly not liable for the results.
Gareth Reynolds
Sue God. God make God someone. For the love of him, sue him.
Dave Anthony
God made it cold and you want to blame me?
Gareth Reynolds
Amasa versus God. The defense calls to the witness stand. God.
Dave Anthony
Well, fuck.
Gareth Reynolds
Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you? You?
Dave Anthony
I always love that when I'm on monophone on a witness stand.
Gareth Reynolds
How many times you want to witness stand?
Dave Anthony
It's A lot. You guys are really annoying.
Gareth Reynolds
Jesus. Good Lord. Sorry. God damn earth. A lot of our curses are about.
Dave Anthony
It's not great what's happening.
Gareth Reynolds
Jesus Christ.
Dave Anthony
What about just a good old fashioned?
Gareth Reynolds
All right. We'll take a quick recess.
Dave Anthony
All right. No.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, sorry. We're in another one of our classic wordplay. Pickles. God. And the attorney will be right back.
Dave Anthony
Lightning bolt inspectors found misplaced struts, braces not tied together in imperfect bearings. Now, Amasa strongly denies there were any design or construction flaws.
Gareth Reynolds
The best. The rich are the best.
Dave Anthony
First, he said the crash happened because one of the locomotives derailed due to a loose rail.
Gareth Reynolds
Bingo.
Dave Anthony
The railroad company tossed out the possibility that a tornado would hit the bridge.
Gareth Reynolds
Cause does anyone stop to think about that? A low tornado, an under the bridge tornado. It's funny to say that it is the locomotives that the train car derailed because the entire bridge collapsed. So it's like, wouldn't that just take the train off? He's like. And then the train swung into the bridge after it derailed. Woof. And
Dave Anthony
could you. Could you say what you mean by woof?
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, just that when I did this in the mirror, nobody was looking at me. So the caboose hit it so hard at a velocity of that of a wrecking ball right into the bridge, which was perfectly designed. Everything was perfect up to code. Trust me. Trust me. I recognize a lot of people have passed. This is quite a serious thing.
Dave Anthony
But you keep smiling and.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh. Beautiful. For space.
Dave Anthony
It turns out Amasa had used his Cleveland rolling mill for most of the materials to build it. And his brother ran the mill. And the casings were not to spec that his brother had made. The Ohio General assembly then questioned Amasa in his home, which they had to do because he was sick.
Gareth Reynolds
He did it. He did it. If you can hear me in there, he did it all. He's a bad, bad man. He's a terrible man.
Dave Anthony
I'm sorry. I have wall elves.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm not an elf. I was put in here for insulation.
Dave Anthony
No.
Gareth Reynolds
I'm 91 years old.
Dave Anthony
Why would I.
Gareth Reynolds
He made me eat my grandkids.
Dave Anthony
Why would I do that?
Gareth Reynolds
He was obsessed with what my last meal would be. He never left me alone about it.
Dave Anthony
It's just so ridiculous.
Gareth Reynolds
So I've had a big family in here, and we were forced to eat some of them.
Dave Anthony
Okay.
Gareth Reynolds
When it got cold, no one.
Dave Anthony
No one's really enjoying.
Gareth Reynolds
And he didn't. He did. He laughed at us. He did. But while we're in here, I guess Maybe we open it up. Everyone's last meal. What would it be? And you can only take one nationality's cuisine and not mix it. Like you couldn't do fries in pizza and make it a sandwich.
Dave Anthony
Well, that's weird. I would like fries and pizza as a sandwich.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, I suppose just for you, we can do it. That sounds pretty good, too. Oh, it's good to laugh. It's very good to laugh. So, birthing for food. Oh, go ahead.
Dave Anthony
Yeah. Could you just. I'm gonna do this thing.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah.
Dave Anthony
Yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
Let me know if you need anything.
Dave Anthony
Okay. Thanks. How fucking long are you gonna live?
Gareth Reynolds
More than a feeling. I'm just gonna do some cleaning up in here. I got a feeling.
Dave Anthony
Amassa said the bridge was built stronger than needed and that he left before it had been finished. And that contractors gave him, quote, considerable trouble. They hired a guy who, quote, thinks. He thinks never put together an iron bridge before.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, I think we've got our murderer.
Dave Anthony
He installed the brace horizontal instead of vertical. And that the first engineer was fired because he was bad at his job. The engineer Amasa hired, who agreed to build it that way, had inspected it 10 days before the accident, but he'd just not gone down low enough to
Gareth Reynolds
look up and see, fuck that, it was coming apart. Oh, my God.
Dave Anthony
So days after that engineer turned in his resignation, but the railroad refused it. So he killed himself? Well, many people said it was the right thing to do, but the wrong guy had done it.
Gareth Reynolds
Wait, many.
Dave Anthony
That's an argument.
Gareth Reynolds
Wait a minute. Many people said that was the right thing to do, but the wrong guy did it.
Dave Anthony
Yep.
Gareth Reynolds
Okay, sure. This is like. He's like a Boeing whistleblower.
Dave Anthony
Others said the guy had been murdered.
Gareth Reynolds
So he is a Boeing whistleblower.
Dave Anthony
Two separate autopsies a year later would also say he had been murdered, but the reports were not released.
Gareth Reynolds
That's classic. Classic.
Dave Anthony
It's. It was all on Amasa, though. One reporter said, quote, he designed this structure and dictated the drawing of the plans and erection of the bridge without the approval from any competent engineer, against the protest of a man who made the drawings under Mr. Stone's direction, assuming the sole and entire responsibility himself.
Gareth Reynolds
So he had no fucking clue what he was doing. Really? Not really. Yeah. And he was just, like, talking to a guy. Just like. And then, I don't know, piece it together with branches. We should get lunch.
Dave Anthony
So Amasa is now a pariah and he runs off to Europe.
Gareth Reynolds
So nothing happens. He just goes to Europe.
Dave Anthony
Yeah. Basically, this.
Gareth Reynolds
These. Oh, sweet baby Dave. Listen, you Know how news is. We're basically a news show and it's overwhelming. Okay, but this is different. News is non stop. It's. It's coming at you all the time. You know, it's like living in this day and age. I do.
Dave Anthony
I live here.
Gareth Reynolds
One hour you're talking about one thing. The next hour you've completely forgotten about that thing because your brain cannot catch up.
Dave Anthony
You know, we need Gareth.
Gareth Reynolds
Say it.
Dave Anthony
A podcast.
Gareth Reynolds
Yes.
Dave Anthony
That is not panic inducing. It slows things down.
Gareth Reynolds
Yes.
Dave Anthony
I'm talking about Stateside with Kai and Carter.
Gareth Reynolds
That's exactly what I was going to say.
Dave Anthony
It's a Guardian podcast.
Gareth Reynolds
Stateside with Kai and Carter airs three times per week because there's always something to discuss. Kai and Carter get access to the Guardians resources in the US and reporters around the world. And David, they deliver the most relevant information right to you.
Dave Anthony
We should say it's journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman, but we're talking global
Gareth Reynolds
content across news, international coverage, climate, culture, sports, lifestyle, fashion, wellness. And they're not billionaire owned over there at the Guardian, Dave, which is something you and I can get behind.
Dave Anthony
I like that. So Kai and Carter wrestle with all the questions we have. What's going on in the world? So listen, wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube. Stateside with Kai and Carter.
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Gareth Reynolds
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Dave Anthony
We help people customize and save on car Insurance with of Liberty Mutual.
Gareth Reynolds
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Dave Anthony
So people, for years people would say that he should kill himself. Like they would tell him to kill himself.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, it doesn't look like that's what he's up to. Looks like he's living himself.
Dave Anthony
The Ohio assembly committee writes a bill for the state's first bridge design code and frequent regular inspections by civil engineers. But the legislature didn't pass the bill.
Gareth Reynolds
Sure. It's so cool how it's so vastly different. Yeah, always. And then time passed and nothing changed.
Dave Anthony
Amasa never recovered from the bridge disaster.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, really? The vapors. Pour more money on me. Hurry, hurry, my skin burns. No guilt. Sometimes I hear the screams that I wasn't there to be around. It's hell. Tom, come to bed.
Dave Anthony
Now. That was on top of never recovering from the death of his son. And while he was in Europe, strikes break out on the railroads, including his Lakeshore railroad. And his son in law, John Hayden
Gareth Reynolds
writes, quote, for those of you listening, will forte, age 88,
Dave Anthony
With an animal on his face.
Gareth Reynolds
For those of you listening, remember the guy who Macaulay Culkin thought was the murderer next door in Home Alone? Him.
Dave Anthony
So John Hay wrote, quote, since last week, the country has been at the mercy of the mob. The town is full of thieves and tramps waiting and hoping for a riot, but not daring to begin it themselves. So guys on strike.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. So we have workers being. Yeah. Furious.
Dave Anthony
They want food. Amasa returned with the plan to be a benefactor and buy back the public's love.
Gareth Reynolds
So good. Wouldn't it be nice if they tried? If ours tried to do that? Like there was that era where they were just like, well, we're really into philanthropy. And everyone's like, you're great. Instead, ours are just like, we should probably move to Venus. Could you fucking like build some houses for people? No. No.
Dave Anthony
In 1880, he offered half a million dollars to Western Reserve College in Hudson, Ohio. His one condition was that the college moved to Cleveland.
Gareth Reynolds
It's gonna be, what the fuck? Can you imagine being on the freeway behind that one? Jesus Christ. What the fuck? Wide load isn't just saying, what are they doing?
Dave Anthony
Hey, college has gotta pull over.
Gareth Reynolds
If there's more than five cars, we're moving to college. Some of the students are still in there. I don't know. I don't know.
Dave Anthony
And other.
Gareth Reynolds
Honey, I'M a little late, I guess. They're moving a university to Cleveland, so I am right behind this thing. Makes me miss a funeral. This is nuts.
Dave Anthony
And other Clevelanders needed to provide grounds for the campus. So he's saying that. So he's gonna give money to the college, but the college has to move, and then someone's got to give him the land.
Gareth Reynolds
They better work that out first. All right, so where are we putting it? Not sure. I don't know. I don't know. But we should find somewhere soon. You know, there's a city right next to here named after my friend Kent.
Dave Anthony
And he wanted to change the name of the college to Adelbert College of Western Reserve University.
Gareth Reynolds
Catchy.
Dave Anthony
Oh, and he wanted to name a majority of the trustees on the board. Oh, and he wanted to oversee construction of the university.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, yeah, that's good. It'll collapse.
Dave Anthony
And he got the land.
Gareth Reynolds
Wow.
Dave Anthony
As did Leonard Case Jr. Who was to build an adjacent college. So Case wanted the western half of the land, so he told Amasa he wanted the eastern part because you knew Amasa was such a dick, he would demand it. And Amasa did. And Case got the eastern part like he wanted.
Gareth Reynolds
Wow. I can't believe he pulled that. Nice try. That's my area. All right.
Dave Anthony
This was the foundation for what ultimately became known as University Circle.
Gareth Reynolds
Wow.
Dave Anthony
Amasa resigned from the Lakeshore Railroad Board after it was absorbed by Vanderbilt's railroad empire. He could not, quote, withstand the transfer of major command decisions from Cleveland to the Vanderbilt offices in New York City. Strikes had broken out at the Cleveland rolling mill in 1882, and several Midwestern steel companies that he was involved in had failed. Three of Amassa's businesses just in the first three months of 1883 failed. This was in the middle of a financial panic, contraction, and high unemployment. So naturally, Amasa blamed, quote, the unreasonableness of men who are disposed to control capital and demand 30% more for their work than that. Paid by Eastern mills. Yes. Fucking labor.
Gareth Reynolds
Wow.
Dave Anthony
You fucks pigs. You fucking animal.
Gareth Reynolds
Look at how rich he is.
Dave Anthony
You ruined the rich people.
Gareth Reynolds
Look at how rich that guy for sure is.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, so he blames labor and just ignored the fact that there was a depression happening. And then his health completely broke down. He had stomach ulcers that kept him awake at night. Fuck, yeah. Suffer, baby.
Gareth Reynolds
What have you been? What have you been eating? What have you eaten?
Dave Anthony
Just. Just little tacks and dirt and a little bit of people.
Gareth Reynolds
You should probably drink some more milk. I would miss milk the most.
Dave Anthony
I Don't.
Gareth Reynolds
We don't have a cow in here.
Dave Anthony
I still don't care. I mean, the crazy thing is it'd
Gareth Reynolds
be great to get a cow.
Dave Anthony
It's been it's skinny cow now a hundred years and I don't give two.
Gareth Reynolds
Can you believe I can't die? Yes.
Dave Anthony
It's the worst thing that's ever happened. I gotta be honest.
Gareth Reynolds
Amazing Grace, have you passed?
Dave Anthony
Oh, Amasa was just getting two hours of sleep a night.
Gareth Reynolds
What's the matter, Amasa? Come to wall. You're tired, baby. Put a little hole in the wall, that puts you right to bed, baby girl. Glory girl, Do you hate me? Yes. It's hard to tell. He said, such a will they. It's such a will they wal they won't they.
Dave Anthony
He wrote to his son in law, John Hay, quote, I have not been to my office in some time. Nervous frustration seemed to be my first misfortune and sleeplessness has followed. Biographer Patricia o' Toole said he was severely depressed. His daughter Clara and Hay were in Europe and he wrote to Hae constantly, quote his ambivalent letters full of muffled cries for help. And he asked Hay to cut short his trip and come home. But Haigh said nope. After another night of no sleep, he took his revolver into the bathroom and killed himself by shooting himself through the heart.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, shit.
Dave Anthony
So he left no suicide note.
Gareth Reynolds
He might have cte.
Dave Anthony
Yeah, his upper body fell into the tub. Mark Twain wrote of that quote, apparently nothing pleases the Almighty like the picturesque.
Gareth Reynolds
Wow. Jesus Christ. I didn't know he was on Twitter.
Dave Anthony
Good people don't make fun of people who died. Mark Twain's like, really, bitch.
Gareth Reynolds
Well, that is true. Unless they're really rich.
Dave Anthony
Yeah.
Gareth Reynolds
Then you mock them physically. Like, yeah, that's like. People are like, look, I know Elon Musk has a funny body, but leave him alone. No, no, I won't.
Dave Anthony
No, absolutely not. To his dying day, Amas was adamant that there were no flaws in the bridges design and construction. His widow and daughter spent a lot of money trying to redeem his reputation. Two years after the death, they donated a huge stained glass window to the restored sanctuary of Old Stone Church, which had been destroyed after the fire of 1884. The window is named after Amasa. In 1910, they paid for the Amassa Stone Chapel on the campus of Western Reserve College, June 23.
Gareth Reynolds
They didn't really try that hard.
Dave Anthony
No.
Gareth Reynolds
They just got a window and a fucking bell tower and they're like, all right, everybody like him again now. Later
Dave Anthony
on July 23, 1901. His 24 year old grandson, his grandson was Aldebert Dellstone. And he fell to his death from an open window. He went to the window on a hot night to get some air, sat down and fell asleep. And then fell.
Gareth Reynolds
What the fuck? What the fuck?
Dave Anthony
Air conditioning used to be so much more dangerous.
Gareth Reynolds
What? He just sat down?
Dave Anthony
He was at Yale for homecoming and died a quarter mile from where his uncle had died in 2001. The two autopsy reports saying the engineer had been murdered were discovered.
Gareth Reynolds
Oh, my God. What? Why 2001?
Dave Anthony
I don't know. When I don't know. Someone going through.
Gareth Reynolds
They were just trying to get us off the 911 problem. Like steel doesn't melt at this heat. We made a big discovery. The engineer was murdered in what? Remember that train? The bridge? No. Well, we'll figure out 911 and maybe 2312 or something. How's that sound, everybody?
Dave Anthony
That's it.
Gareth Reynolds
Nuts? No,
Dave Anthony
That's basically the podcast.
Gareth Reynolds
That is the first hundred episodes. Oh my God. That is the podcast. Dave gareth, history.
Dave Anthony
Sources. Alan F. Dudka Misfortune on Cleveland Millionaires Row. The observer case. Edu Untimely Deaths in the stone family. Old stonechurch.com.
Gareth Reynolds
that's a great website, by the way. That's where that picture came from.
Dave Anthony
The Evening Post, the Pittsburgh Commercial Paper. The Tennesseean, John D. Rockefeller. The Heroic Age of the American Enterprise by Alan Nevins.
Gareth Reynolds
And. And the Wall. The Wall.
Dave Anthony
And old Wally.
Gareth Reynolds
I mean, Can't have rich people. Can't have them.
Dave Anthony
Can't have rich people.
Gareth Reynolds
Gotta stop.
Dave Anthony
No rich people.
Gareth Reynolds
Nope. Can have, you know, you can be rich. That's okay. You can't be. Can't. Can't be that. No more magnates, no more barons.
Dave Anthony
10 million.
Gareth Reynolds
Yeah. 10 million capital. You're good. 10 million. You get parks, you get trains, clean water. You get to walk around without people wanting to stab you.
Dave Anthony
I don't know about that. I can't make that guarantee.
Gareth Reynolds
Wait a minute. Yeah, but that is really. That's always the story, right? That's what the dick could be called. Tales of rich people.
Dave Anthony
Who knew he had such a big dick,
Gareth Reynolds
John. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Enjoy your night.
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Date: May 26, 2026
In this live episode of The Dollop, comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds tackle the tumultuous story of Amasa Stone—a 19th-century American railroad magnate, bridge builder, and eventual Cleveland pariah. Through trademark banter and sharp historical critique, the hosts explore Stone’s rise to influence, tragic family history, catastrophic engineering failures, infamous rivalry with John D. Rockefeller, and ultimate downfall.
1. Amasa Stone's Humble Beginnings (04:07 – 06:54)
2. Rise in the Railroad & Bridge World (06:54 – 09:50)
3. Expansion and Cleveland Empire (10:00 – 16:42)
4. Personal Tragedies and War Profiteering (16:42 – 20:05)
5. Notorious Bridge Disaster & Scandal (21:59 – 58:06)
6. The Rockefeller Feud & Business Decline (29:43 – 38:06)
7. Attempts at Redemption & Final Decline (71:14 – 77:07)
8. Legacy and Aftermath (78:02 – end)
This episode is a classic Dollop spectacle—horrifying Gilded Age greed paired with outrageous comic improvisation. The tale of Amasa Stone unearths America’s industrial growing pains: unregulated capitalism, ego-driven engineering, and the societal scars that follow preventable disasters. Dave and Gareth, through biting satire, remind listeners that these cycles are far from gone.
The saga of Amasa Stone is a darkly comedic cautionary tale: build bridges with care and humility, respect the power of collective safety over personal ambition, and never, ever let the richest man in town decide for himself how safe the rest of us should be.