740 - Ferdinand Ward - Live

Summary

The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds
Episode 740: Ferdinand Ward - Live
Release Date: June 23, 2026
Main Theme:
This live episode explores the wild rise and fall of Ferdinand Ward, one of the earliest and most notorious financial scammers in American history. Hosts Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds dissect Ward's upbringing, his flamboyant Ponzi scheme, and disastrous entanglement with American elite families—culminating in a hilarious but cautionary tale of greed, gullibility, and contemporary echoes in today's Wall Street.

---

Episode Overview

Dave Anthony tells the story of Ferdinand Ward, a 19th-century con artist often referred to as "the young Napoleon of Wall Street," to Gareth Reynolds. The duo dive into Ward's dysfunctional upbringing, his manipulation of famous figures like Ulysses S. Grant, and the shape-shifting financial fraud that eventually sparked a massive financial panic. The episode is laced with the comedians’ trademark improvisational humor and irreverent take on history.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ferdinand Ward’s Early Life & Family Dysfunction

• Timestamp: 00:24–08:04
  • Born 1851, Rochester, NY, into a rigid and pious Puritan family.
    • “His father believed his family were, quote, more upright, more principled, more godly…” (00:56, Dave)
  • Mother Jane was physically and emotionally unwell, frequently stayed at water-cure facilities, and placed immense emotional pressure on her children.
    • “If you don’t pray enough, I will die. It’s called parenting.” (05:43, Gareth)
  • Ward’s early years were shaped by illness, maternal guilt, and oddball treatments like “water cure.”
    • “They wrapped him so tightly in wet sheets that only his head was free to move for an hour a day.” (06:10, Dave)
  • A formative lesson: feigning illness grants sympathy and escape.
    • “Being sick or faking sick would always quote, win his mother’s anxious sympathy.” (07:46, Dave)

2. A Pattern of Manipulation and Avoidance

• Timestamp: 10:00–16:47
  • Ward feigned medical conditions to avoid school and responsibility.
    • “He feared that school would damage his eyes…” (10:18, Dave)
    • “Somehow, he got an ophthalmologist to believe he was going blind and the school sent him home.” (14:58, Dave)
  • Ward develops a lifelong habit of dodging accountability—living on borrowed money, running up debts his parents covered.

3. Social Climbing and Early Schemes

• Timestamp: 16:47–24:17
  • Ward uses deception and charm to climb social and financial ladders—eventually marrying into the wealthy Green family via calculated courtship of Ella Green.
  • Quickly embezzles from church funds to buy luxury gifts and pay off debts; sets a pattern for his later schemes.
    • “No, he got… He was embezzling from the church they worked at. That’s how you get something nice for a lady.” (22:13, Dave)

4. The Big Scam: Birth of a Ponzi Scheme

• Timestamp: 24:17–35:05
  • Ward sets up elaborate investment swindles using Ella’s inheritance, pulling in further investors by faking profits and repaying early backers with new investments.
  • Links up with Fish (the president of the Marine Bank) and Ulysses S. Grant’s son, leveraging social trust to lure the elite.
  • The scheme snowballs as Ward creates “the imaginary business,” becoming “the young Napoleon of Wall Street.”
    • “He convinced Fish that the jackpot was in government contracts. So they used Grant’s name.” (39:57, Dave)
    • “A Democratic senator said, Ferd should be the Secretary of the Treasury. They called him the young Napoleon of Wall Street.” (42:08, Dave)
  • Comic moment: Dave and Gareth compare 19th-century “water cures” to Joe Rogan’s modern ice baths, lampooning self-care fads.
    • “Do you think there’s a connection between water cures and Joe Rogan getting into an ice bath?” (13:45, Dave)

5. Collapse: Panic and Ruin

• Timestamp: 43:03–52:52
  • A city comptroller withdraws massive funds, exposing the fraud and triggering a financial panic; investors clamor for non-existent returns.
  • Grant Sr. loses his fortune and dignity, reduced to despair and dire financial straits.
    • “I have made it the rule of my life to trust a man long after other people gave him up. But I don’t see how I can ever trust another human being again.” (52:00, Ulysses S. Grant, via Dave)
  • Ferd tries to flee, but is quickly arrested.

6. Aftermath: Jail, Privilege, and Shamelessness

• Timestamp: 58:10–68:33
  • Ward receives celebrity treatment in jail: plush accommodations, cigars, even outings for $500 bribes.
    • “He paid by using other people’s money… $3,000 a week.” (58:50, Dave)
    • “A piano for sing alongs…” (59:46, Dave)
  • Ultimately found guilty of grand larceny and sent to Sing Sing, though cushioned by privileges and family money.

7. Ward's Later Life and Legacy

• Timestamp: 68:43–79:31
  • Decimated family: Ella dies, their son Clarence is alienated.
  • Ferd tries (and fails) to scam his own surviving relatives and even attempts to kidnap Clarence to regain control of the family estate.
    • “He decided to get money back. He would take back his son.” (70:39, Dave)
  • After a string of absurd, failed legal maneuvers, Ward dies penniless in 1925.
    • “Ferd finally succumbed to nephritis in a boarding house in White Plains… He could charm the birds from the trees.” (78:54, Dave)

8. Reflections & Contemporary Resonance

• Timestamp: 80:25–81:47
  • The hosts connect Ward’s story to the recurring theme of white-collar impunity, financial system rot, and American penchant for forgiving—or forgetting—elite scammers.
    • “Because it never ends. We just want health care.” (80:33, Gareth)
  • Gallows humor as both hosts list the historical figures they’d most like to "dig up and kick around."
    • “Still Oliver Cromwell. It’s always going to be Oliver Cromwell.” (81:36, Dave)
    • “I want Reagan.” (81:41, Gareth)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family Dysfunction & Water Cures:
  • “If you don’t pray enough, I will die. It’s called parenting.” (05:44, Gareth)
  • “Sometimes I drink the head bath water.” (05:03, Gareth)
• On Early Frauds:
  • “He was, quote, one of those fellows whom you could never tell whether they are telling the truth or not.” (12:31, Dave)
• On Wall Street Scams:
  • “He just put it in his personal account. That’s how you do it. It’s called business.” (24:17, Dave)
  • “The best way to take care of the family. Buy produce, exchange certificates.” (25:02, Dave)
• On Historic Repetition:
  • “It’s so crazy that these Wall street fucks have been the same culture the entire time.” (34:35, Gareth)
• On Collapse:
  • “I have made it the rule of my life to trust a man long after other people gave him up. But I don’t see how I can ever trust another human being again.” (52:00, Grant Sr., quoted by Dave)
• On Scammers' Impunity:
  • “Nobody wanted to testify because they’d look guilty or stupid, which still happens today when people get taken.” (61:24, Dave)
  • “Although he did die poor in a boarding house, so that’s good.” (81:13, Dave)

---

Recurring Jokes & Comedic Bits

• Extended riffing on “water cure” treatments and their modern wellness equivalents (ice baths, Joe Rogan references).
• Feigned historical dialogues between characters, especially about absurd 19th-century customs and modern parallels.
• Satirical “banker logic” exchanges and a running joke about being unable to die from diarrhea (47:52, 48:34).
• Lively audience asides and call-backs to previous bad jokes (“the buck joke”), with visible self-awareness.

---

Concluding Thoughts

The saga of Ferdinand Ward, as recounted by Dave and Gareth, becomes a lens through which to observe America’s repeated tolerance for white-collar fraud, the cyclical nature of economic panics, and the persistent human appetite for “easy money.” Through relentless, improvisational humor and pointed satire, the hosts peel back 19th-century history to expose ongoing patterns in finance and human behavior—reminding the audience that while names and faces change, the scams remain much the same.

---

Key Timestamps

• Early life/family dysfunction: 00:24–08:04
• Developing scam tactics: 10:00–24:17
• The Ponzi scheme & Wall Street: 24:17–43:03
• Collapse and panic: 43:03–52:52
• Arrest, jailhouse luxury: 58:10–68:33
• Ward’s late life and legacy: 68:43–79:31
• Contemporary reflections: 80:25–81:47

---

For listeners interested in the wild, foundational scams of American finance, the complicated psychology of a con artist, or simply in for gut-busting historical satire, this episode stands out as a quintessential Dollop: funny, furious, and weirdly timeless.

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to the Dollop.

[B]

This is American History podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a goober, Gareth

[A]

Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about.

[B]

November 21, 1851.

[A]

Not that excited for the year. No. Really tapered.

[B]

Ferdinand Dewalton Ward Jr. Was born to Ferdinand Sr. And Jane in Rochester, New York.

[A]

Woo hoo.

[B]

His father believed his family were, quote, more upright, more principled, more godly, and perhaps as a reward for all that conspicuous virtue, bound to be more successful because of their ancestral heroic Puritan piety, of which they were never, for an hour, ashamed.

[A]

So they were proud Puritans?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Good for them.

[B]

Wouldn't you be?

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's a long way of saying in the 18, what is it? 20s, we're in.

[B]

We're in 1851.

[A]

Whatever. The point is, it's a long way of saying we're white. It's a long, rambling. We're white.

[B]

Ferdinand Sr. Used his pulpit to criticize those who went against his strict Protestant rules. Mother Jane believed she was gross and ugly. Okay, so mother Jane as a kid was skinny and had kind of a hump on her back.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

And she hated her big hands and big feet.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

In a letter to her daughter, she wrote, quote, when I am dead, please don't let my hands be laid across my breast, but close to my sides.

[A]

Whoa. I didn't know you could give tit directions at your funeral. Yeah, don't Madonna my titties. Allow me them to be at my sides because her hands are so big.

[B]

Well, she thought they were, right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

By 39, she was sick, suffering from fatigue, debilitated, nerves settled, neuralgia, Neuralgia. Neuralgia, rheumatic joints, recurring fevers, shooting pains and more.

[A]

Oh, more. Cool. So it's like a compilation CD they sell on TV and more.

[B]

She spent weeks at a time at a water cure facility.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

She got pregnant with Ferdie and she called her life useless and despaired about her marriage. And so this is the home that Ferdie was raised in.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

Well, it's so Fey grew up feeling dread.

[A]

Why you think? I don't know. What do you think that was about?

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He was small and frail. He had cholera as a baby and was a sick kid with fevers that led to convulsions.

[A]

Okay. Hell yeah.

[B]

Yeah, it's good.

[A]

Awesome. Good start.

[B]

His mom checked him into treatment for longer or. Sorry. His mom checked into treatment for longer, longer periods. She keeps going to the water cure.

[A]

She's going to the bath place again. I need to go to the bath place for a few more months.

[B]

It's time to get really wet again.

[A]

I gotta. Well, not really wet. When I say really wet, I mean have a half bath, a head bath, a no bath, and then a sip bath. You'll be fine.

[B]

The douche one?

[A]

Yeah, the douche. Well, the douche one's the last one. Yeah. Yeah. That's when you know you're getting better because you don't even need the water therapy. You just sit on the tile. Taint to tile. And you just sit there and you just kind of put your hand near it. And then, you know, when your hand prunes, you're good. Nothing else will. Sometimes I put my bottom in the head bath and I don't tell the next fellow. Ever tell you about that? I'll just spin around in the head bath and then the next guy will come in, see what he thinks. And then I'll go have a sit one. And sometimes I put my head in the sit one just to know what that fellow went through. It's called empathy. There's not really a syllabus or something like that, but you just go in there and figure. So I put my parts in the head bath and then I put my mouth in the sit bath and then in the. Honestly, sometimes I go butt up in the half douche. Oh, okay. Well, I know what happened.

[B]

I think that ends our intake for today.

[A]

Okay, thank you. I have one more confession.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Sometimes. Sometimes I drink the head bath water.

[B]

Noted.

[A]

You guys do really good work here. Thanks.

[B]

All we do is just put water in bowls and then people. People act like idiots. We had no idea. We were just like, what if put water bowls and called it a hospital? And people fell for it. So now everyone's just coming here and putting in body parts. Thank you.

[A]

Thousand dollars.

[B]

So she spent her sixth. His sixth Christmas in a facility and wrote him to pray for her.

[A]

What a great letter, Hob.

[B]

Plus, she.

[A]

Merry Christmas. Pray for me.

[B]

She told him she would die if he didn't pray enough.

[A]

If you don't pray enough, I will die.

[B]

It's called parenting.

[A]

I'll know. Good Lord. I'll be in the half douche.

[B]

If I die, it's on you.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

He was so scared that his brother and sister took him to the facility to get water cured.

[A]

No. What? Oh, my son.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Don't put your head in the head bath. Trust mother.

[B]

People threw cold Water buckets at him and wrapped him so tightly in wet sheets that only his head was free to move for an hour a day.

[A]

What the fuck?

[B]

So Ferdy became a nervous wreck.

[A]

Why? Why?

[B]

I don't know. Once he got home, a doctor ordered him to be homebound.

[A]

Homebound in sheets. No, just stay here. Jesus Christ. Do I have to get wet all the time? No, no, not wet. Just stay home. I don't want to get wet. No, you're not gonna get wet. Don't turn on the water. Don't turn on the water. Won't be wet. Okay. Oh, God, the dog. No, no, no. I didn't touch you. Just stay home. Is that ice? No, just stay home. Just stay home. You can just get to stay home now. But if you want to take a shower, you can take a shower. You don't have to. You don't have to. You don't have to, but you probably every now and then want to go to bed. Get under the blankets. No. What? I'm just saying. What? No. This is where you want to be. The bed's wet. You what? The bed's wet. The shower's wet. The shower's turn. The floor's wet. No, the floor's not wet. The floor's dry. Christ, chill out.

[B]

Did I tell you I went to visit Mom?

[A]

How's she doing? I heard that. Long term.

[B]

Okay, never mind.

[A]

Never mind. Never mind.

[B]

So. So Ferdy learned a valuable lesson.

[A]

Don't talk to mom, ever.

[B]

Being sick or faking sick would always quote, win his mother's anxious sympathy and help him avoid doing things did not wish to do.

[A]

Pretty good, though. That's what we call a seed.

[B]

During the Civil War, Ferdinand Sr. Was a Union.

[A]

He can't make it to the war. He's got a cold.

[B]

Ferdinand Sr. Was a Union chaplain and older brother Will was on a gunboat. It was traumatic for Ferdie. He was his mother's only companion. And she filled him with dread and anxiety. Also, a big wave of lethal diarrhea ravaged the village.

[A]

Jesus Christ. Village had diarrhea. Now, what was the other part before the village had diarrhea?

[B]

Lethal diarrhea.

[A]

I remember that part. Before that,

[B]

Ferdy saw kids he'd played with die.

[A]

No, you didn't even said that one before. What did you say before the diarrhea village? Oh, that she put all the dread into him.

[B]

He was the only one with his mom, so she just filled him up the whole time.

[A]

She's like, I'll give you a stress hump.

[B]

Yeah. And Then diarrhea came on top of it.

[A]

I remember the village had diarrhea. So dysentery, I mean.

[B]

Yeah, but diarrhea is more fun. Like you can't buy a dysentery video.

[A]

I don't think you should be buying any of these videos.

[B]

Science.

[A]

That's not a write off.

[B]

Well, I just did it on the show, didn't I? So now it's a write off. And this is.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, I'm a history guy. I have a show about history. So I had to make. I had to buy a lot of diarrhea stuff.

[B]

Well, I'm showing here you about 4200 videos, HD 1080. And it's just all diarrhea.

[A]

Yeah. Or pictures of it. Yeah. A wave of diarrhea hit the Internet. What are you doing with your fingers, Jack?

[B]

At 15, Ferdy blamed bad grades on nearsightedness. And his parents took him out of school.

[A]

Well, that's it. He can't be taught. We could move him in the. No, don't move him. It's over. His time here is over. It's crazy that we even put him here.

[B]

He feared that school would damage his eyes is what he told me.

[A]

Yeah, school's bad. I'll tell you from experience. School's terrible for your eyes. I didn't know that was a rational excuse. I would have totally used that for truancy. I can't see it. How will I learn if I can't see? Mama, take me to the shower.

[B]

So back at home, he blew up his tutor and instead made a four page monthly periodical of bad jokes and riddles.

[A]

He wrote that. He wrote.

[B]

Do you want one example?

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

A man in Illinois was so absent minded that on retiring, he put his boots to bed and set himself outside the door.

[A]

Cut that man's hands off. Wow, that is one mixed up gentleman. My boots are in bed and I'm outside.

[B]

His parents sent him to see a preacher. The sweet singer of Methodism. He was there. He was sent there to get his head straight, I guess. He sang and he was a Methodist.

[A]

I'm cocaine Ted Cruz.

[B]

But instead, Ferdie came back more rebellious and stubborn.

[A]

Looks like the Munster's grandpa didn't get it going for him.

[B]

So when Ferdy came back, he spent money that wasn't his. And he ran up bills. And his mom wouldn't pay. And his mom would pay them to keep him out of trouble.

[A]

Isn't he in trouble?

[B]

And he never showed any remorse for the bills.

[A]

Okay. His parents then sent, unlike this city. Sorry about that.

[B]

His parents then sent him to a fancy boys school to become a clergyman.

[A]

That always hurts.

[B]

Seems like he's got all that, by

[A]

the way, for sure.

[B]

Definitely he's ready for the priesthood.

[A]

Father, give me some holy water. It burned. It burned.

[B]

The other boys did not trust him. One said he was, quote, one of those fellows whom you could never tell whether they are telling the truth or not.

[A]

Well, I think it was just another moment where I got confused, you know? No, well, see, I tried to put myself to bed, but instead I robbed you.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that seems. What?

[A]

Look, I was mixed up.

[B]

It doesn't sound at all.

[A]

I meant to give you breakfast in bed, but instead I beat you with a suitcase full of books.

[B]

Yes, it took my money.

[A]

Shut the fuck up, okay?

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

What?

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

Yeah, I bet it was nothing.

[B]

Okay,

[A]

Talk to me like that.

[B]

You stop cracking your neck.

[A]

I don't need to stop cracking my neck, all right? Got a bump on my back that I'm a little worried about.

[B]

Have you considered bathing your back?

[A]

Yeah, of course I have. Got a back pool. It's just I have a genetic disposition to maybe have a hump.

[B]

Do you think there's a connection between water cures and Joe Rogan getting into an ice bath?

[A]

Who? Joseph Rogan, that man from down the way who spends all his time in the streets on a soapbox shouting about 50% of things that sound logical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the other 50% that don't on a smaller soapbox is a little boy named Jamie. Yeah. Who, when he points out the truth to Joseph, Joseph just casts him aside and says, let me talk to this man who clearly doesn't know anything. What's wrong with you?

[B]

So Ferdy got in trouble for roughhousing and profaning on the Sabbath. He was miserable, so he faked an illness, saying schoolwork was once again damaging his eyes.

[A]

I don't know why he went back to school. He already knew that he had this.

[B]

True.

[A]

So it was weird.

[B]

It would have been enough time, though.

[A]

Well, he probably wanted to try again. Yeah, maybe if I just sit further away. Which one's nearsightedness again? I think I fucked it up. I would have learned that if my eyes worked.

[B]

Somehow he got an ophthalmologist to believe he was going blind and the school sent him home.

[A]

I feel like that's a pretty good one to pull off, though. Like, an ophthalmologist is not gonna be like you're faking it. They'll be like, you swear to God? You can't see that. I can't. You have really bad vision, dude. Terrible.

[B]

Who's there?

[A]

It's me, the ophthalmologist.

[B]

Oh, I can't. All I see is.

[A]

You can't? No. Can you look at the letters in front of you?

[B]

What letters?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Throw water on my face.

[A]

What? Why? I don't know. Oh, my God.

[B]

So back in home, he apprenticed with a carpenter.

[A]

Sure. Definitely. You don't need vision for that job.

[B]

His parents hoped he was now walking the path of Christ.

[A]

Uh. Oh.

[B]

But a classmate said he, quote, spent all his time with the young ladies. If the word had been coined, he would have been known today as a. He would have been known on the day as a dude.

[A]

A dude dude.

[B]

He was very extravagant and always running up bills for his parents to pay. He bought luxuries on credit, monogram handkerchiefs, trinkets for girls, and, quote, unauthorized buggy rides.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah. Once more through the park. You know what I mean?

[A]

Is this authorized?

[B]

No.

[A]

Well, that was a crazy answer.

[B]

Do you want a naughty buggy ride?

[A]

I thought I was driving the buggy.

[B]

No, not anymore.

[A]

What a strange turn to do.

[B]

We're both going to be driving. You know what I mean?

[A]

I don't really understand, but okay.

[B]

Yeah. Merchants began having him pay up front, so he started borrowing. He used money from one guy to pay back another, and this greatly embarrassed his parents and caused gossip. Two more boarding schools ended in expellings.

[A]

Why does he keep going back?

[B]

His parents are sending him, but he's

[A]

like, mom, Dad, I told you, I can't see. How many times do we have to go through this?

[B]

So dad got him a real job. Clerk at the Meridian national bank in Indianapolis.

[A]

Not good. Why would you send this motherfucker to a bank?

[B]

He was fired after two weeks. Okay, quote, he smoked and whistled on the job. Young men with such weaknesses could not be trusted around money.

[A]

I pretty much picture this time period as nothing more than smoking and whistling.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. Like the idea that in a bank they were like, have you no dignity?

[B]

Well, didn't they all work? Because if you're working with wood, I think you legally have to whistle at that point. Point.

[A]

Oh, my God. That is so. Fucking.

[B]

What?

[A]

Terrible.

[B]

You're whittling and whistling or you're not

[A]

whittling in the bank?

[B]

Yeah. Banks back then were all whittling. They would have a whittle window for the small people. That's whittling, by the way.

[A]

Go over to the whittle window over There. How are you? I'd like to make a tiny deposit.

[B]

So he bounced from gig to gig. He was hanging out with a fast crowd.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So he mooched off his parents. They couldn't afford it. And he still did it when his older brother got a job at the Manhattan Produce Exchange. So he gets a job there and he works long hours. He gets a promotion, but he's miserable because he doesn't like working.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He rode home complaining about his eyes.

[A]

That's the craziest thing to do. I can't see anymore. Mom, dad, everyone back home, period. It's been very difficult on me. Sometimes I can't see in front of me. Language has once again eluded me, period. I think I'm riding this on my leg.

[B]

End quote. A doctor had told him that a painful boil on his neck had been caused by city air.

[A]

What do you mean? What? That's normal.

[B]

That's just city living. Yeah, but he stayed in New York.

[A]

I got a city boil. Is that that scooter?

[B]

He stayed in New York because he was making so much money. And he starts now by going by Ferd.

[A]

Ugh.

[B]

It's worse.

[A]

That is the worst shortening. Yeah, it's Ferd's better. Ferdinand, is your name, right? Yeah, yeah, it's great. Furd. Ferdy. Okay. But then you're like, how could it be more turd?

[B]

He wanted the finer things in life, but not to work for it. The only answer was to marry a rich broad. Ella Champion Green was a pretty Sunday school teacher at the church where he became a treasurer, and her dad worked as director for two banks. Perfect.

[A]

It is perfect.

[B]

Ferd almost immediately got her dad into bad investments. And then the father demanded Ferd clear his debts before the engagement. So he rode his mom and got a little cash to buy some nice clothes and an engagement ring.

[A]

But wait, that's not undoing the debt. So the guy's like, you better pay me before the wedding. I'm your father in law. And then he writes to his mom. He's like, I need new clothes. And she was like, okay. And he was like, that was close. Hey.

[B]

Well, because he just asked her to marry him, right? Without the getting rid of the debt. He's just like, I'll just cut through the.

[A]

I don't need him.

[B]

Because once she's locked in, then they're stuck, Right? So the Green family was very shocked by the engagement because it had been so fast. But after reassuring letters from Ferd's family, they came around. But the wedding was Pushed for over a year due to what Ferd's dad called, quote, queerness and wrongness.

[A]

Now queerness has had quite a linguistic journey. So what sort of. We don't know.

[B]

Yeah, I think. Well, wrongness we get. I think queerness is just like.

[A]

He's a bit off. Right. Okay. Right.

[B]

Then suddenly Ferd has.

[A]

I really would. I would like to start a petition to go back to Ferdy, if at all possible.

[B]

Ferd, Respect the man.

[A]

I mix fudge with him dead.

[B]

Name him.

[A]

How dare you.

[B]

He all of a sudden he has a lot of money to not only pay off his debts, but to buy himself a gold watch and a $7,500 pearl necklace for Ella.

[A]

Holy shit. That's her money though, basically.

[B]

No, he got. It didn't come from her. He was embezzling from the church they worked at. That's how you get something nice for a lady.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

It's called caring.

[A]

Yeah, that is. That's nice. That's very nice.

[B]

But the head of the church refused to let him resign because he liked Ferd so much.

[A]

Look, I'm having a lot of trouble seeing. I need to get out of here. Let me go.

[B]

Would you really fire a blind man? Three months after the wedding, Ella's dad died. The overwhelmed older brother put control of the family fortune and the hands of 26 year old Ferd.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

So he convinces the Ella's mom to Let him spend 300,000 on produce exchange.

[A]

300,000. 300,000 then. Money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Holy. What is that in today? Two bazillion New York trader fix. I can't. I can't.

[B]

New York Produce Exchange.

[A]

That's what it is. I don't think I should stay here.

[B]

This. This. This little piece of business brings a nice tidy piece of profit for Ferd. And they're really good investments. In five years it's worth over 4.5 million.

[A]

Back then money, yeah. Jesus Christ.

[B]

Or it would have been if he'd actually bought them. But he didn't.

[A]

What did he do? He just took it.

[B]

He just put it in.

[A]

They were probably like. You're a fucking genius. What a financial wizard. It's probably after taxes. It's not gonna be worth that much after taxes. And they take their cut, it's not gonna be worth a ton. Trust me, I've been through this a bunch. They just fuck you on both ends. It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah. He just put it in his personal account. That's how you do it. It's called business.

[A]

Yeah. Hell yeah.

[B]

And then Ferd turned his sights on Ella's D. Dad's.

[A]

He can't turn his sights on anything.

[B]

Yeah, well, he turned his head.

[A]

He turned all of his other heightened senses. His hearing, his sense of taste and smell. On who?

[B]

On Ella's dad's old boss up the chain. He's president of the Marine Bank. His name is James D. Fish.

[A]

He's a real Saltburn guy.

[B]

Fish was famous for being conservative and always paying back what he owed. Ferd begged Fish to help him take care of the family.

[A]

Ferd and Fish. Sounds like a Disney show.

[B]

Yeah. The best way to take care of the family. Buy produce, exchange certificates.

[A]

Buy them this time?

[B]

No. They go right into Ferd's personal account.

[A]

So those certificates, they're just like counterfeited certificates?

[B]

No, the certificates are real.

[A]

They're real.

[B]

He's just not buying them when he says he will.

[A]

Where do you get them? You just go to a guy, he's like, I got them.

[B]

Oh, I don't think he ever shows them to him personally. Yeah, you have them now?

[A]

Yeah, even better.

[B]

But Ferd always promptly repaid Fish half of the profits, which is just cash from the green estate. So he's just moving money around.

[A]

Ah, real Ponzi.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

His brother Will. Ferd's brother Will.

[A]

Ferd's brother Will. So we have one Ferd and a Will Ferdinand.

[B]

Will worked at the assayer's office and was friends with ulysses S. Grant, Jr. Known as Buck. Quote. A modest, retiring lad, as sensitive and kindly as a girl.

[A]

Okay, the language is so loaded. He's diseased with what we call empathy. He's the curse of a woman. He liked to hug and laugh. He was a real lady boy. Always down to listen. And when he'd listen, he really would. Kind of like a boring old wife. Happiness was what he sought. What a fucking loser.

[B]

Will assayed a silver mine in Colorado for Buck. And when he reported, it was good. Buck, his dad, and others invested.

[A]

Do you want to wear a helmet when you go down there, Buck? I'll be fine.

[B]

And Will got Ferd in on the ground floor, and he made 25 times what he invested.

[A]

Who did? Ferd? Will?

[B]

No, they all did, because it's through this gold mine.

[A]

But it's real.

[B]

Yeah, it's real. Oh, this happened because, I mean, yeah, that's all real. Okay, so they're rich. And Ferd had a handsome dividend every month in addition to Ella's family estate. So he's making a lot of Money, sure. And he spent big. Mansion art, oriental rugs, jewelry. Renovated his parents house.

[A]

Like that's on the list. Yeah, yeah, eventually. Do you think that we could maybe get a new bed? Jesus Christ. Fine. Shut up. God. A couple of bucks over there.

[B]

In July 1880, he and Buck opened up a big brokerage firm. Ferd is managing partner. So he'd sign the checks, keep the books, conduct regular business. It's what you want. You want that guy in charge of the money.

[A]

And if they needed someone to run through a wall, that was Buck's job. Old Buck could drill to the center of the earth if he spanned fast enough. Sweet old Bucky boy.

[B]

Well, this is great timing because at this point, Ferd is flat broke. He's been spending all the money, he's been pocketing investment money instead of investing it. And that doesn't really turn a profit. And buying tons of shit doesn't help. So Ferd convinces Buck to put in 3 million, promising he would match it. He didn't, of course.

[A]

How did he lose it all?

[B]

Ferd would pay Buck back his profits. So he is paying people back and saying, this is your. And whatever. Every month you're making this much money. And so he'd be giving people little bits of money like they're making money.

[A]

But he's obviously holding on like crack. He has no money really. No.

[B]

He's spending all his money.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Buck was pleased and he told his dad, Ulysses S. Grant, to get in on it.

[A]

Get in, dad.

[B]

Now. Rich oligarchs had given Grant Sr. $11 million for his union service. Wow. Well, thank you. Right. Well, thank you.

[A]

Yeah, right. That's. Yeah, of course. Well, if anyone after the Civil War was owed money, it was the white generals.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Someone called Reparations,

[A]

how they said it writes itself.

[B]

He had shown a, quote, fatal inability to recognize dishonesty among those who had purported to be his friends.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

He once had his.

[A]

That's a big problem.

[B]

He once had his savings.

[A]

I don't believe anyone. I like lies.

[B]

He once had his savings drained by a fast talking soldier and traded a 60 acre farm for a house that was not owned by the guy who traded it.

[A]

Oh, Ulysses, I think you got a lot of problem. You got a lot of promise. I think you got a lot of promise in what you got. The problem with you is you don't have enough. You don't have enough space. You gotta have a little space. You know, you got too many expansive things. You're not a guy who needs a quick decision.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

You know, you're not maybe a 30,000 foot overview kind of guy. You're the kind of guy who just needs maybe a house. Like if you had a bunch of acreage, I would suggest you turn it in for something like that. Leave your hand alone. It's fine.

[B]

I'm just getting the circulation.

[A]

Shut the fuck up. I was just gonna say that maybe the thing you should is just downsize a little bit. That'll give you less thing you have to focus on. That way you can focus on the things in front of you. Then once you've accomplished those things, it's not going to feel like you're climbing a mountain anymore. You're just going to feel like, oh yeah, I'm on the downside, may as well get a toboggan and go all the way down there. Something like that. So that's why it might be a good idea for you to get a tiny little house. One of those little houses that they put on hgtv, something like that. You get inside one of those, you give me those big 60 acres and I own that house. I'll show you the deed, fuckface. And then you get all this acreage. You get that off your back, you can have the ability to focus. Hey, put it right there. Can you feel your hand on that? You? Yeah. Hey,

[B]

Gareth. Dollop is brought to you by Squarespace.

[A]

Ah. All.

[B]

All in one website. Platforms that's going to help you stand out and succeed online. Doesn't matter if you're garething or if you're dving, you're going to want to get on this platform. They do everything. We've been, we've been, we've been working with Squarespace. We don't stop working a long time. We never stop. We. All of our websites are with Squarespace. Why? Because it's super easy to use. There's nothing updating. You get 24. 7 support.

[A]

Shut up, Dave. You know what I like to say about Squarespace? You're in the game.

[B]

No, no, you don't. Nobody, literally nobody.

[A]

I'm saying with Squarespace, you're in the game.

[B]

Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid. From consultations to events and experiences. Showcase your offer offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. You can get paid on time.

[A]

You're in the game.

[B]

Professional on brand invoices and online payments.

[A]

With Squarespace, you're in the game, period.

[B]

Garrett's website is with Squarespace. You can go there and check out the dates that he has coming up, head to squarespace.com dollop for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code dollop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com dollop for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code dollop to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain. Garrett. The Dollop is also brought to you by Nutrifal Baby. Baby Garrett. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand used by over 1.5 million. Yes, sir, people, it's. It's a game changer. That's what, that's what we're going to call it. It's. There's no. It's not hype.

[A]

Like we say, it's not hype. It's hair.

[B]

I've been using it. I shaved my head. Now I grew back and I've been using. Using the neutrophil. You've been using the neutrophil?

[A]

Loving it every day.

[B]

People on the road, when we were on our last tour were like, what's going on with your hair? And I was like, it's just Nutrival. That's all that's going on. And then you started using it because you, You're. You're a follower.

[A]

Yeah, I did. I. I decided it was time and I got involved. I was jealous of the attention that you were getting and I.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Didn't care for it.

[B]

So a lot of people were kissing my.

[A]

Yeah, I use it every day. Every day.

[B]

So I've been taking Nutrival for, I say, a couple of years now. It looks thicker and it looks healthier, shiny.

[A]

You've got a beautiful coat.

[B]

And Gareth, of course, you. You know this because you got all excited about it, but Nutrival is the official hair growth partner of Major League of Baseball.

[A]

Big stuff for me there.

[B]

So they're hitting it out of the park.

[A]

Yeah, kind of mad, obviously.

[B]

Start Nutrival today and make the hat optional. Visit nutrival.com and enter promo code the dollop for $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. Find out why Nutrival is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r r a f o l.com promo code the Dollop. That's nutrival.com promo code the Dollop. So Grant puts 6 million in to the brokerage firm. They would get 43,000 per month.

[A]

We're making a lot of money.

[B]

And then everything else is reinvested, which was needed because Ferd hadn't invested a dime and Fish demanded to be paid every month. So now other Wall street vets, they're part of this, and they're all in love with Ferd.

[A]

I. It's so crazy that these Wall street fucks have been the same culture the entire time.

[B]

Never stopped.

[A]

Did you hear? She's got a new plate? You could. You could get your blood done at Walgreens. She's a genius. All she wears is black. It's perfect. Give us the money. That's your economy.

[B]

One of them said, quote to all of us. He seemed a lusty, good natured boy.

[A]

He's a grown man. First of all, Ferd.

[B]

With Grant's money, Ferd bought another mansion. 22 rooms, gardens, a fountain, stables. And a windmill.

[A]

And a windmill.

[B]

He didn't live there.

[A]

What a fucking prick. Yeah, you don't get a windmill if you're not living there. That's a rule.

[B]

No, that's the best place to have a windmill.

[A]

Wrong. What are you.

[B]

What are you, Trump in your second house?

[A]

I'll get lung cancer.

[B]

Well, he had an Irish couple live there and care for it. And the greenhouse. Because the greenhouse from that house was filled with roses which they would cut and put in his Brooklyn home year round. Roses.

[A]

So he had a mansion with an Irish couple that was pretty much just for roses. We got a nice little deal, haven't we, here, Maud?

[B]

What a gig we've got.

[A]

I'll tell you what. We stepped in shit and it turned out to be gold. I tell you now. Quiet with your lip in there. Cut more of those roses. We don't want to mess up the gravy train. Who?

[B]

How's that?

[A]

Ulysses S. Grant tied in the yard. Still.

[B]

But by 1882, things were bad. Buck had invested money in companies, but only to help old friends rather than going for profit. And it cost the brokerage 30 million in today's money.

[A]

So the lesson is, don't help. Help. Yes, take. I bet every time he had to loan money, he probably took the top of his head off and just like pulled out something. I mean, that's why he's called Buck.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

I thought that might hit a little.

[B]

It was pretty bad. Yeah, it was pretty bad.

[A]

I thought there'd be like three or four people. That's pretty good.

[B]

Bringing the show to a halt.

[A]

Yeah, everybody. Everybody felt pretty against that one.

[B]

Well, they're all feeling like me.

[A]

Lucky.

[B]

So the brokerage hasn't made money for two years.

[A]

Is that bad?

[B]

And. Well, it is bad because Ferd is cooking the books to show the partners and taking out loans on the same property over and over to pay the previous loan.

[A]

Right. Which is great, right? No, that. Yeah, that's always worked out historically. Well, yeah.

[B]

Now, it wasn't quite illegal because everyone's getting paid.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But he.

[A]

Everyone is.

[B]

Well, this is. There's no. There haven't been Ponzi schemes yet. So there's.

[A]

I think there has been one right now.

[B]

Well, this one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. But up until now, no one's thought of doing this.

[A]

Right. That's the greatest thing.

[B]

So they don't have laws to prepare for something. They didn't think anybody would be crazy.

[A]

God.

[B]

Okay, so. So he's hid it from his partners and the customers. Every single person but Fish, who was loaning money via his bank. And then. And by that, Fish doesn't know about all the criminality. He just knows that they're not making money. So he thinks he's putting money into the brokerage. So then the stock market turns, and all of a sudden all the creditors are demanding payment.

[A]

Can you imagine a time like that?

[B]

Investors calling in loans. Third quote. I was in a corner. These people held our paper. They expected their tremendous profits, and I was anxious to retain the reputation I had gained.

[A]

It's great that we have a quote from him, but he's like, I was officially fucked. Like, this is the beginning of the movie. I bet you're wondering how I got here. We're in the third act now. That was better. Fuck off. No, no, no.

[B]

Do not encourage it. It's like you don't remember the buck thing a minute ago.

[A]

I've been watered. Yes. My hand is sokus. I think we might revisit the buck joke, by the way. I've done some retooling on it. I think it's got good legs and a good head.

[B]

Get out, everybody.

[A]

No, wait.

[B]

This began Ferd's operation of, quote, the imaginary business.

[A]

I gotta.

[B]

It's a lot of business.

[A]

I have to get off of Twitter because so many things just sound like his voice to me now.

[B]

Yeah, well, the imaginary business is AI.

[A]

I mean, honestly. Yeah, right.

[B]

He convinced Fish that the jackpot was in government contracts. So they used Grant's name. So they use his name without his knowledge and to lure companies in. And Fish set up a separate accounting system for bank examiners. And to keep Grant from finding out how the fuck it's fine.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

It's fine. Would I be reading this story if it wasn't fine?

[A]

I mean, it's already not fine.

[B]

It's fine.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

God damn it.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

Oh, I can't see.

[A]

I'm now just mad. He's on the 50. That's just shocking.

[B]

That is true. So the money goes directly into Ferd's new pyramid scheme.

[A]

Pass.

[B]

Investors are paid from the fresh deposits of the new rubes and fish and furred. They have like a father son pyramid. It's kind of param.

[A]

Yeah, Feels like Ponzi pyramid.

[B]

Bringing in new people.

[A]

Right, okay.

[B]

And then they put money in.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And Fish and Ford. They have a father son type relationship. They eat breakfast together every morning. They'd stay up late working.

[A]

So they are bffing hard.

[B]

They're bffing. Yeah. But now Ferd felt he had to keep fish in the dark. They target.

[A]

They don't like that.

[B]

No, they targeted. They targeted the city government and got paid almost 50 million in deposits. Third gave investors 10 to 20% profit a month. And the investors then just lined up. A Democratic senator said, here we go. A Democrat.

[A]

We will write him a letter. We will write a letter to him. Demanding that he continue.

[B]

Sorry I got thrown off.

[A]

We will win.

[B]

A Democratic senator said, fern should be the Secretary of the Treasury.

[A]

He's literally about to be.

[B]

They called him the young Napoleon of Wall Street.

[A]

What? Do people fuck?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Young Napoleon.

[B]

He's fucking great. Ella gave birth to their first child, a son.

[A]

Oh no.

[B]

Ferdinand Grant ward. Ferd is 32 at this point.

[A]

Wow, that is so early June.

[B]

Two days later, after the birth. Yes.

[A]

Uh oh.

[B]

He transferred the house's title to his brother in law for a dollar. And then he put it in Ella's name because he sees the end coming and was hoping just to have a house to live in.

[A]

Fuck me.

[B]

Quote.

[A]

That Irish couple. Poor bastards didn't see it coming. We don't need to take classes. For the last time, we. We've got the beautiful gig. Oh no.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

They're repoing the windmill. Lift it up. Donnie.

[B]

Quote. He grew still thinner, still more pale and seemed always on the move, racing between his office, the Marine bank and the offices of investors and city officials all the place over. Over southern Manhattan. Then the city comptroller got sick and he came back and he had a change of mind. And he realized having so much money in one small bank was not good. He had put 20 million in today's cash. I'm sorry. He had 20 million in today's cash withdrawn all at once.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And the bank was already overdrawn by 16 million.

[A]

What are they? What is the point of them?

[B]

You're not a bank anymore.

[A]

You're not. You've stopped being a bank. Hey, do you know a place that has a bunch of money? Yes. You what? We're like a little short this month. Can you help us figure it out? We don't have it, okay? We didn't know you don't want it at the same time.

[B]

We were kind of planning on that.

[A]

Well, nobody knew. Come on. That's your fault. You think we keep it all here? Oh. What's in the vault? What do you mean, what's in the vault? That's where we live. That's where we go when you find out we don't have anything in there. Duh. God.

[B]

Jesus. You guys don't even know what a bank is.

[A]

Let's just agree that we all learned a lot of lessons along the way and that going forward, we should continue to be allowed to do business the same way. Usa. You know.

[B]

We're never serious when we do that. At the dollop.

[A]

One day, we might be under rubble when you shout today's date.

[B]

So Ferd goes bananas. He's running around trying to find cash to make bank the bank and Grant and Ward solvent. He convinces Ulysses to grovel at at the feet of William Vanderbilt for a personal loan.

[A]

That is so fucking pathetic. That is so crazy. To convince Ulysses S. Grant to go kiss a Vanderbilt shoes. And he's like, okay, where do I go?

[B]

Well, he's ruined also.

[A]

Yeah, but still, it's a pretty bad ending.

[B]

Oh, it's not over. The money that he got from Vanderbilt was not enough. Gig's up. So Furd just goes and hides that day.

[A]

Didn't know that was an option.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okie dokie.

[B]

He went and hunkered down that Ferd in a tree.

[A]

No, no. I'm a bird cuckoo for sure. Bird eggs in the nest. Go, go, go. I'm sick.

[B]

He went and hunkered down in the Brooklyn Club's reading room, read some books. You know what? I haven't finished this. And he took a last carriage ride through the park with Ella.

[A]

A last one? Does she know it's the last one? Are you having fun, honey? A little bit. That's great. What's that? That's great. Yeah. Are you okay? You're Eddie. Okay. I heard. What have you heard? The noise I used to make when

[B]

I was a Kid?

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Have you heard the noise I used to make when I was a kid?

[A]

Well, no, I wasn't around then. Oh. Are you okay? Listen, you seem stressed out. Let's go back. I'll draw you a nice warm bath. What? No. What? What? What? What? What? Maybe we could just put your feet in some water or something. What? No. You just soak your head in some stuff. Oh, my God. What? They all died of diarrhea. Wait, what? Who died of diarrhea?

[B]

Diary.

[A]

Mommy, you can't die of diarrhea. Just cause it has dye in the name, it doesn't mean you could pass away from it. Ferdinand. No, you can't. Who died from diarrhea? Oh, the town. A town died of diarrhea?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't think so. You know of a city that died from diarrhea? That's why I'm weird. Makes a lot of sense. They all died

[B]

the next morning. A crowd. By the way, when you say you can't die from diarrhea, like two people.

[A]

I know two people are like. Sir, sir. Hey. You are giving Maha information out at your show. Diarrhea is a deadly symptom of many diseases. Quit RFK junioring. I would love to honestly just think, you cannot die from diarrhea.

[B]

And then Rogan's like, I didn't. I didn't know that.

[A]

Wow. No, you're unable to.

[B]

Jamie, can you.

[A]

Jamie hung himself 45 minutes ago. Diarrhea is a sign that you're getting healthy. It's all the bad part of vitamins leaving. You can die, sir. You can die from diarrhea. People listen to the dollop for medical advice.

[B]

So the next morning, a crowd of angry depositors surrounded the bank, but the doors were shut.

[A]

Smart. I didn't know you could do that. We're closed on Tuesdays for a while.

[B]

The stock market plunged. Several prominent brokerage houses went down. A financial panic had set in. At noon, Grant showed up to Grant and Ward on crutches because he had slipped on ice.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

And the crowd parted. A reporter, quote, nobody followed him or spoke to him. But everyone in the cynical, hard boiled group took off his hat. Respect to a former chief magistrate as spontaneous recognition. Recognition of the immense personal tragedy which was enacting itself before our eyes.

[A]

Oh, fuck me, you can get through glass.

[B]

Well, they let Grant in and he told the clerk, quote, I'll suck your

[A]

dick for one of my dollars.

[B]

I'll show you the way our army boys used to do it.

[A]

Tell Vanderbilt I can go higher Than the shoe. They once tied me to a tree

[B]

because I wouldn't stop sucking dick.

[A]

Grant, have some goddamn dignity, sir. I had my hand tied to a tree because I tried to suck my way out of another jam. Ulysses, shut up. Don't get us out of this, Manhattan. Don't worry, Manhattan. I got us out of slavery. I can get us out of this one.

[B]

You're about to know the golden mouth of Grant.

[A]

Call me Fort Knox. Cause I'm about to get full of some of that baker gold. Mr. Grant, we are closed.

[B]

My mouth is open. Back alley.

[A]

Mr. Grant, stop. Maybe you could just give me $30, please.

[B]

Grant went in and told the clerk, quote, I have made it the rule of my life to trust a man long after other people gave him up. But I don't see how I can ever trust another human being again.

[A]

That is. I mean, for a bank. That is some dark shit to say to a. What account were you looking to.

[B]

So is it. Is it a deposit or withdrawal?

[A]

It feels like everything's been withdrawn from the bank of Grant lately.

[B]

How about I deposit my heart?

[A]

I trusted a man who took everything from me and the only currency left is the soul. But even that feels hollowed and emptied out. We're closed.

[B]

Can I deposit eternal darkness?

[A]

Yeah, just fill out one of the slips. Fill out a slip. We still have slips.

[B]

When he left home that morning, he believed he was a millionaire. And when he got home in the Evening, he had $80 in his pocket. And his wife had another 130. There was nothing else.

[A]

Oh, my God. US

[B]

Ferd's shadowiest investors demanded a meeting. They had invested 20 million and. And wanted it. Or they wanted everything Ferd owned. Ellis signed over the Brooklyn home. They moved into her mom's house. Seven detectives watched to ensure he didn't run for it. At 8:30pm a cab sped into the driveway and Ferd ran out, hopped in and told the driver to head for the ferry. The hill agent surrounded the car. The bank examiner estimated they owed around 500 million. But he only had 2 million.

[A]

Is that a lot? That's a lot. There's a big difference there. But also the cab run. And being stopped immediately is such a glorious moment. To the ferry. Hello, Detective. I didn't realize. So are you all. You all are here still.

[B]

I didn't realize you could actually stand in front of the.

[A]

Okay, when I say the ferry, I did not mean the fair. I said no. Wow. You guys are. You're still here. You guys work long hours.

[B]

Have you met my Uncle Ulysses. I call him Unc.

[A]

I call him Unc. You know what? I don't actually want to go to the ferry. Who called you here? Taxi. This cab driver's a criminal. Let's get him. All right, you guys stay in good shape. And you have to. I respect the hell out of what you boys do. Truth be told, I'm an undercover cop myself. This whole thing was just an undercover sting. And we finally got our man, this cab driver. Oh, wait. Ulysses S. Grant. My wife, my baby, my dead dad. Did you know you can't live from diarrhea?

[B]

That night, Ferd went to Fish's house to explain everything. He stammered that he couldn't resist temptation and he wished someone had stopped him.

[A]

I hope he said it like the mask.

[B]

Fish screamed at him that Ferd had ruined his family and destroyed his reputation. Quote, I said to him that I could kill him if he were not such a contemptible, miserable viper.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Fish picked up a chair and raised it up to hit Ferdinand, who crumpled on the floor and begged not to be killed. Fish did not hit him. Quote, I advised him to go and commit suicide.

[A]

The old diarrhea.

[B]

The New York Times called for Ferd and Fish's arrest. The first lawsuit came a week after the crash from a cross examiner. Quote, so then the real nature of your business consisted in discounting the fanciful prospects of imaginary profits to be derived from fictitious contracts founded on manufactured artificial contributions of altogether imaginary money. Is that so?

[A]

You'll have to say that a little clearer. I'm near sighted, so I'm unable to understand what you're saying. Where are we, by the way? Is this a doctor's office?

[B]

After the lawyer said this, all the lawyers in the room laughed. And Ferd did, too. Because.

[A]

Same team, same team. We're all on the same team.

[B]

And.

[A]

Same team. Same team. Legally, we're on the same team. Say it with me. Same team. Come on. Same team. We're on the same team. Taxi.

[B]

Well, he laughed because there was nothing he could say. Like, he was.

[A]

Yeah, he was like, oh, fuck, man. Shit, this is my only life.

[B]

Ferd was arrested the next day.

[A]

On what grounds?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

What did he do wrong? I guess we're all scratching our heads, helping people. Yeah. Making a difference.

[B]

Everybody got their money.

[A]

Yeah. Especially granted. And yes, Grant got granted $180.

[B]

He would stay in, like a rich guy jail, hotel thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The sheriff had to be there. And for some reason, the sheriff's dad.

[A]

The sheriff's my son. Signed the weirdest contract of all time. There's a dad clause in some law enforcement, which we did not know. We didn't know about it. So. So, unfortunately, every time he eat my boys here, I have to be here too. I'm 81.

[B]

He paid. I don't know how he did this. He paid by using other people's money.

[A]

How?

[B]

I don't know. This part I couldn't. It's people like who are still behind him. I did. I didn't like the arrangement at all. Especially at the steep price I was paying.

[A]

Motherfucker. What are you talking about?

[B]

$3,000 a week.

[A]

It's crazy. I mean, nobody has any idea what it's like to take a financial hit like this. Three grand a week.

[B]

The New York Times said, quote, his reception room has soft sofas and lounging chairs scattered about. A marble topped center table.

[A]

I'm in hell,

[B]

the jailkeeper declared.

[A]

Someone wrapped me in wet sheets.

[B]

The jailkeeper declared emphatically that the rooms were cooler than any hotel in the city. He had his dog.

[A]

Oh, I see he got the ghislaine.

[B]

A piano for sing alongs.

[A]

A piano for sing alongs. What the fuck?

[B]

A barrel of Havana.

[A]

Sorry, I thought I was going to jail. Well, you're in a jail.

[B]

A one, a two.

[A]

Same team, same team. We're all on. Come on.

[B]

A barrel of Havana cigars.

[A]

A barrel. It is not a unit of measurement. What even Castro is like. That's not how we do it. A barrel of cigars, is he alluding to?

[B]

And wood for the three fireplaces.

[A]

Three fireplaces.

[B]

His wife, brother and friends visited. For $500, the sheriff or warden would take him out to the theater, casino, a carriage ride.

[A]

What in the. Jeff Epstein jail is awesome. I mean, why would you leave for $500? You can leave for $500. You can hang out here. We're going to have a half do, Georgie.

[B]

At the same time, Grant was writing articles about the war to make money. He was shrunken, gray and emaciated. And then he found a lesion on his tongue, which was cancer. Oh, me Fish was found guilty on 12 counts. A year later, Ferd was not indicted.

[A]

What did he do?

[B]

Nobody wanted to testify because they'd look guilty or stupid, which still happens today when people get taken. A lot of people don't want to come forward because they'll look like morons.

[A]

The idea in this country in 2026, you don't want to look stupid.

[B]

Well, they all came here to watch this.

[A]

You idiots. You fools.

[B]

Especially these guys.

[A]

Dave, leave them alone. Christ. You get Dave's computer.

[B]

I gotta delete some stuff.

[A]

This is a lot of diarrhea. Pictures, videos.

[B]

Excuse me, Gareth. The summer changes how I dress. I just, I start dressing differently. I want, I want lighter clothes. I want breathable, easy. Looks good, right? Look, you know I like to look good.

[A]

I know what you're talking about. I've never been someone who was like, hey, you need different clothes for this time. With Quints, it actually makes sense, the items they're offering. I don't know if it's that I'm getting older or Quince is getting better. I got some shorts and a shirt from Quince for the spring summer season and I was like, this is right.

[B]

Yeah, I got, I got linen pants and shirts. I've kind of got the linen guy. I have a lean in a linen now.

[A]

I'm a lean into linen.

[B]

I'm a lean in a lean and linen summer. Linen quints, European linen pants and shirts are perfect for the, the hot summer weather. And they start at just $34.

[A]

Can't say enough about how much I love quince. I pretty much only wear quince.

[B]

Yeah, my wife went crazy when she saw that I was, oh yeah, quincing. Because she's a big quincer. Tee's very soft, lightweight cotton sweaters, perfect for cool summer nights, everything. At Quints, it's going to be priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands.

[A]

They're aware of the environment, they work with local people. It's all cheaper than it would be with with other companies. The quality's high. They're having a moment and I don't mind. I don't mind having them all over my body.

[B]

So we're Quint, we're Quincers, as we said. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/stop for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Listen to the quince toplets, now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C.com dollar for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com dollop My name is Shannon Maldonado.

[A]

I'm the founder of Yowie, a gift shop. From the lens of artists and handmade objects, I chose Shopify because when I was testing other platforms, it was definitely one of the most user friendly. It was important to me to think about where we would be in the future. All of the tools for reading your sales, like planning inventory, they're just right there on your Dashboard for anyone starting a small business. The biggest thing I can tell you, it doesn't have to be perfect. Shopify can help you build upon it. Start your free trial on shopify.com I'm Kiana and I leveled up my business with Shopify. Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business. But Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like I can't stop. I'm addicted.

[B]

Start your free [e-mail] get that Amex Gold card ready.

[A]

I'm too tired to cook. We feeling Five Guys or the Cheesecake Factory? Both earn up to 120 doll a year in statement credits of participating partners up to $10 each month when you pay with the Amex Gold card. Learn more@american express.com Explore Gold enrollment required terms apply.

[B]

Ulysses Grant died. The Washington Post called Ferd not just quote, the plunderer of Grant, but also his murderer. Ferd said he was, quote, the best hated man in the U.S.

[A]

i mean, you know what this is what we should have just a list of people we should be allowed to dig up. We should be able to dig up like a thousand people from American history and just really go kick them around. Notes, thoughts?

[B]

More.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I agree. More people.

[B]

10,000.

[A]

10,000 people that we can dig up 100%. It's all we have.

[B]

Yeah. So companies were now using Ferd in ads like a dry goods merchant in Reno, Quote, ferdinand Ward is said to be an expert in robbing Peter to pay Paul. Not so with Gallatin and Folsom. For they give their customers a fair shake on every proposition.

[A]

It's like, it's like Rob Blagojevich where he's like, I'm a goofball. This is my favorite gum.

[B]

On October 19, the bigger changes, bigger charges on Ferd were dropped. One witness was too ill, the other went to Peru.

[A]

That's not an excuse.

[B]

And the third was just named in a separate indictment. So those are the three big witnesses. Sorry, I'll be in Peru.

[A]

When will you be back? Peru? Well, he's out.

[B]

The prosecutor decided to pursue a lesser charge of grand larceny, which is a 10 year max sentence. Fish was the main witness. Now Ferd was moved from a swanky jailhouse suite to the dank city jail. Known as the Tombs.

[A]

Excuse me. Where's the hot tub? Wow.

[B]

Oh, my God. That's just a man. His name's Hot Tub.

[A]

Get in.

[B]

No.

[A]

Wrong.

[B]

On the way, Ferd and the warden stopped for a final drink in the Tombs. Ferd refused to speak to common criminals and had his dinner served to his cell.

[A]

That's an option. I guess I'll dine in. Can I have the ribs?

[B]

The trial was quick. Ferd was found guilty and got 10 years hard labor at Sing Sing. But money from his family and friend remaining friends bought him special privileges. A cushy job counting shirts in the laundry where they had puppies that he got to play with. What? A man can't play with a puppy? No, it's called hard time.

[A]

Puppies. How do I get in? Free laundry and dogs. He.

[B]

Oops. He got an oriental rug for his cell. He spent Thanksgiving at a feast with other white collar criminals that turn into a rowdy, drunken poker game. But then he became obsessed with getting money. Specifically money. He continued some money, specifically from Ella. Uh. Oh, his wife.

[A]

How much acid did you take before this event? How. What? You can die from diarrhea. What's jail? Oh, me, oh, my.

[B]

That's our Jamie.

[A]

Jimmy, look that up. How? Never mind.

[B]

So he would only talk to Ella about money. He asked her to remove a diamond from her favorite brooch, to pawn it. And she offered the diamond from her wedding ring because she, quote, didn't care about it anymore. Okay, that's fair.

[A]

That's hurtful. That's very hurtful.

[B]

She changed their son's name from Ferdinand to Clarence.

[A]

Not great. Not a great switch, honestly.

[B]

Ferd got a job in the prison print shop. And then Ella died. Probably from tonics given by a doctor.

[A]

Just half a tonic on your bottom.

[B]

Then his mom and dad died. No one left him a dime. Ella left everything to their son. And so Ferd was pissed and he decided to get.

[A]

I've been ripped off.

[B]

You can't take advantage of me.

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

He decided to get money back. He would take back his son.

[A]

I love my boy. I miss my boy. Hey, give me a hug. My little baker. Whatever his name is. Money boy. Claire Ferd.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

Whatever it is.

[B]

I don't like you.

[A]

Give me my boy. I love you so much, son. Go. Wanna meet a sheriff's daddy?

[B]

Hey, let's go to the bank.

[A]

Let's go to the. What do you say we go to the bank?

[B]

He was released after six and a half years. And as he walked out, he said to reporters Quote, I'm off to see my boy.

[A]

Oh, that's a red flag.

[B]

Young Clarence was a good, quiet and kind kid. Good. He met Ferd at the train station. He lived. He was living with Ferd's in laws. So Ella's sister and brother. Or sister and brother in law. Or brother and sister in law. But sure related to Ella, right?

[A]

Either way, a brother and sister were married.

[B]

Yes. A reporter said he, quote, he was quote, gazing fondly into his son's face. The sweetest sight his eye had seen for six and a half long years.

[A]

Well, he can't see. I'm trying to figure out if this is my son. That's a house plant.

[B]

No, he's gorgeous.

[A]

Is there any money in it?

[B]

But after 24 hours, Ferd left. And when he returned, it was not to see Clarence, but instead to court Fanny, the teenager. Teenage daughter of a local rich man. So he must have been seeing. He went when he was with Clarence, he must have seen a young teenage girl and was like, boom.

[A]

Dad, you're right. We should rekindle our relationship. It's been too long and there has been a. Well, miss a piece of me. Honestly.

[B]

Who's that hot piece of ass? The young one with the money? The money around her.

[A]

That's a child. Yeah. Oh my God. No, don't say it. That's better. Just breathe.

[B]

She looks like she's full of money. Bad fact checking. After he. After a little bit, he left again. And then his in laws started getting bills from all over town because he had been running around spending money stables, merchants, dentists and dentists. And the money was all.

[A]

He's just got a grill. Look, here's the thing.

[B]

He said that his brother and sister in law would pay for it all. So Ferd's brother in law is forced to pay and his sister in law writes him a grow the fuck up letter. And that they were going to keep Clarence from him.

[A]

Who? Oh yeah.

[B]

Oh yeah. That one. Yeah.

[A]

No, no, no, not little. Whatever it is,

[B]

Ferd wrote back, quote, did it ever occur to you that the treatment of my own family and friends has caused this trouble? I suffer now, but mark my words, as long as you keep my boy from me, you will never be happy. Signed Ferdinand. Clarence, big parents.

[A]

Hope you guys are good.

[B]

He wrote letters to everyone that boiled down to you all. Killed me, but it's fine because I wish I was dead.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He told the in laws that he was going to snatch Clarence. And on September 12, 1894, Clarence was walking to school when a Buggy pulled up beside him, quote, Good morning, Clarence. Your father wants to see you. But the in laws had coached him for this moment. And he screamed, quote, I don't want to go.

[A]

Is this the day kidnapping got invented?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not how you do it. We'd like to take you somewhere, boy. No. Okay. Shit. It's a shame.

[B]

A man grabbed him by the throat and squeezed. Clarence's cousin ran home to get her parents. And then a chase began. And the kidnappers got to the hotel Ferd was staying in. But he wasn't there. He had taken this moment to go get a shave. Well, I'm a little bit thick. Yeah.

[A]

As time is fucking. Ah. I'll tell you, my neck is smooth now. When are you gonna go get the boy? What? Oh God.

[B]

His brother in law and the local constable arrived and took Clarence home. Ferd's in laws then sued and won custody of Clarence. Outside court, they were met by thunderous applause from all of their neighbors and supporters. Now Ferd moved back to Genesio, which is where he grew up with what sorry

[A]

is there you think you're better than him?

[B]

What is it? Geneseo? Wow. What a difference. I'm glad we got that out of the way for some town nobody gives a flying fuck about. Even the people there. Like I don't know.

[A]

At least you'll never forget about it.

[B]

I will absolutely never forget. So Ferd moved back to Genesio where he grew up. With a new wife got him, who turned out to have been his longtime mistress. He opened a carpentry shop and got a job as a clerk. He did not write Clarence for seven years. Then on Clarence's 21st birthday.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

Because that's probably the day he could get all the money, right? Yeah. He wrote he wanted to meet with Clarence, who was at Princeton now. And Ferd meets and tells him to turn over the estate. Clarence said he had to speak to to his lawyer. And Ferd left furious. And then wrote letters to his son telling him he wasn't a real man. And that if he didn't fork it over, he will come to grief.

[A]

That's such a lame threat. You'll feel bad. Give me everything. Give me your mansion.

[B]

Clarence held strong. Then five years of lawsuits and desperate moves from Ferd followed. The dumbest was Ferd convincing a warehouse owner to sue him so he could declare bankruptcy so the warehouse owner could collect jewels that Ferd thought Clarence had to pay off the lawsuit. It doesn't matter. It's fucking dumb. The reason you said what is Cause it makes no sense. It's a crazy person doing something. This did not work for many reasons, the biggest being that Clarence had no access to any jewels.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

I thought I had him that time.

[A]

Well, now I'm just bankrupt. What do I get? Nothing.

[B]

Ferd outlived all his enemies. His siblings, Fish, his in laws, and

[A]

yeah, Fish is the character from earlier.

[B]

He's one of the main.

[A]

Some of your bewilderment needs to be contained inside of your head for the rest of the show. We have. I don't know what page we're on. I'm guessing we're nearing the sources. Until then, there will be no more exclamatory what when's housed.

[B]

Fish.

[A]

Fish, like the salmon.

[B]

Ferd finally succumbed to nephritis.

[A]

The what?

[B]

In a boarding house in White Plains, New York, on March 3, 1925. He was 73. When asked about Ferd, his niece, who's lent him $500, said, quote, I knew him well and liked him immensely. He could charm the birds from the trees. That's how you get birds out of trees.

[A]

Would you like a better life? You know those tiny houses we built for you? What if I offered you one that was enormous? All the straw and floss you can find.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

Fucking. Hey.

[B]

He's quite a dude. Dude. That's like the first Ponzi scheme.

[A]

Yeah, that feels like the first. It's maybe the best Ponzi scheme, too.

[B]

But the Ponzi scheme is named after a Ponzi scheme, which we already did one on. Yeah, it's named after a Ponzi schi.

[A]

John Ponzi. Yeah.

[B]

Frank Ponzi.

[A]

Frank Ponzi.

[B]

Frank Ponzarello.

[A]

Frank Ponzarello. Yo, you give it to me and I'll give it to him. Don't even worry about it.

[B]

But this is like the first big Wall street fraud anyway. Written and researched by Josh Androwski and one source. A Disposition to be Rich by Jeffrey C. Ward, who also sounds.

[A]

It. Just the feeling that these things will end. End. Is always hampered by the episodes such as this one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it never ends. It'll never end. We just want health care. We're not like, we're really just on health care. Like, they can just keep doing whatever, but it's like.

[B]

It's like the.

[A]

No more co pay.

[B]

It's like the. The jail he's in, that's like a fancy suite. And they just made that because rich guys were going to jail. And they're like, yeah, but. But we make money off of it. And it's like, who fucking cares? Put it in the tombs. But they always have a thing.

[A]

They're fine. Yeah, Always fine. And even when you get their emails and you're like, what the fuck? Then they're like, shut the fuck up. And you're like, are you winning? This is crazy.

[B]

Although he did die poor in a boarding house, so that's good.

[A]

It's not enough. It's not enough. We should be able to play his bones on his isle of fun. We'll end on this. Number one you want to dig up. If you're on your list, on your wish list, who's your. Who's your fantasy? First round.

[B]

Still Oliver Cromwell. It's always going to be Oliver Cromwell.

[A]

I want Reagan.

[B]

That's a good one.

[A]

All right, everybody, thank you so much for coming out. Appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. Last year, I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself. When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere. Living a busy life, navigating a long distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather, Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone. I Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members. Have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to talkspace.com Match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com Save $80 with code [e-mail] this is a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naula. When a son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe to pay for medical expenses. It was 5k to pay the bill for my son and I need only 22 hours. It was amazing. People really trust on GoFundMe. How did Juan raise $5,000 in less than a day? He posted a short video on GoFundMe telling his story in 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Be specific. Be quick and tell. What are you gonna be using the funds for? I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money but you shouldn't be nervous. Sometimes you just have to do it and see the results. We were able to save my son's life thanks to gofundme that we still have my son with us. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this message reflects one person's experience.