741 - Alexander Hamilton - Part Two

Summary

The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

Episode 741: Alexander Hamilton – Part Two

Release Date: July 7, 2026
Main Theme:
Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds continue their irreverent deep dive into the life, legacy, and problematic mythology of Alexander Hamilton, focusing on his political philosophy, views on wealth and power, links to slavery, and the foundational financial policies that shaped the United States—all filtered through the duo’s signature blend of historical research and biting, freewheeling satire.

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Episode Overview

This episode picks up the story of Alexander Hamilton focusing on:

• His vision for government structure and economy
• Rivalries with contemporaries such as Aaron Burr, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson
• Hamilton's contradictory stance on slavery and his mythologized abolitionist reputation
• The creation of the central bank, the Federalist Papers, and Hamiltonian economic foundations
• The gap between musical/myth and historical reality

Gareth and Dave skewer both the musical’s sanitized image and the tendency among liberals to valorize deeply flawed Founding Fathers, especially Hamilton, who emerges as a “conservative douche nozzle” (36:49), more intent on consolidating elite power than pursuing democratic ideals.

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Key Discussion Points, Insights, and Moments

1. Hamilton’s Anti-Democratic Political Philosophy

• Wealth Equals Power: In 1793, Hamilton wrote that representation in Congress should reflect one’s wealth:

  “Inequality is inherent.” – Dave quoting Hamilton [02:22]

• Elite-Driven Governance: The duo highlights how the post-Revolution elite (including Hamilton) simply replaced the monarchy with their own “80% monarchy” for the benefit of the powerful.

  “They got rid of the crown because they wanted to be the new crown.” – Dave [03:16]
  “You would think you wouldn’t talk about those guys... Instead, you’re like, ‘these geniuses, they figured out how.’” – Gareth [03:33]

• Strong Central Government: Hamilton’s obsession with consolidating federal authority springs more from fear of “the propertyless hordes” than from idealistic republicanism.

  “The resistance, the elite after the revolution did not want to give the propertyless hordes any real power.” – Dave [27:17]

2. The Hamilton–Burr Rivalry

• Compared as lawyers: Hamilton is long-winded and theatrical, Burr is succinct and charismatic.

  “Burr would say as much in a half hour as Hamilton in two hours.... Burr was terse and convincing while Hamilton was flowing and rapturous.” – Dave [09:12]
  “No, he’s annoying.” – Gareth [09:44]

• Humorous Imagining: Gareth asks to picture Aaron Burr as Bill Burr for the rest of the episode [10:24].

3. Hamilton’s Slavery Hypocrisy & The Myth of the “Abolitionist”

• Despite his involvement in anti-slavery societies, new research shows Hamilton bought and sold slaves for himself and others.

  “In 2020, more evidence was found... not only did Alexander Hamilton enslave people, but his involvement in the institution of slavery was essential to his identity, both personally and professionally.” – Dave quoting Jesse Serfilippi [18:34]

• Debunking Chernow’s “Uncompromising Abolitionist” claim:

  “The best-known Hamilton biography by Ron Chernow called him ‘an uncompromising abolitionist’... but Chernow concedes he may have had one or two slaves.” – Dave [19:12]

• Sent-up of whitewashed musical:

  “We don’t do musicals for pieces of shit.” – Dave [04:23]
  “We’re gonna do one duet between the slaves and then we’re out.” – Gareth [21:02]

• Quoting historian:

  “The denial and obscuration of these facts in nearly every major biography... has erased the people he enslaved from history.” – Dave, quoting Serfilippi [18:34]

• Gareth's scathing parody: “Sometimes you buy people.” [22:10]

4. Founding Counter-Mythology and Modern Liberal Worship

• The hosts savage the sanitized version of Hamilton presented in the musical and embraced by liberals:

  “The guy you could make a musical about that likes all the stuff you like—it’s called Aaron Burr. Instead you pick the guy that’s the opposite.” – Dave [17:48] “They made a musical about a fascist and you’re Humming the songs.” – Gareth [37:02]

• On liberal affinity for Hamilton:

  “The fact that Democrats, the ones who embraced it, you’re just like, it’s a conservative douche nozzle.” – Dave [36:50]

5. The Constitutional Convention & Push for a Strong Executive

• Hamilton's proposal:
  • A lower congressional house for three-year terms and an upper house (senate) for life, chosen by the electoral college.
  • He pushed for an “elective monarch”—a king in all but name.

  “He wanted a king.” – Dave [33:05]

• Hamilton’s designs were so extreme that even other conservative Founders distanced themselves:

  “Hamilton has been praised by everybody, but supported by none. Some thought his long speech was embarrassing arrogance... Colonel Hamilton seems to have quitted the convention in despair.” – Dave quoting delegates [45:13]

6. The Federalist Papers and Ratification Battles

• Hamilton wrote the majority of these essays to defend the proposed Constitution, focusing on strong executive/judicial branches, taxes, and a standing army.

  “He said it would not lead to the government being run by the wealthy and well born. No, it's not what he wanted!” – Dave [47:49-48:11]

• Notably, he argued against the Bill of Rights:

  “Saying there was no need for freedom of the press... libertarianism in a nutshell.” – Dave [48:32]

7. Architect of America’s Oligarchic Economy

• Hamilton laid the foundations for a financial system designed to serve and enrich the elite:
  • Assumption of state debts
  • Creation of a central bank managed by private citizens
  • Bonds and taxes that disproportionately favored the rich

  “Wealth would be concentrated in the hands of moneyed investors. Their ambitions would fund the nation’s ambitions.” – Dave quoting historian William Hogeland [65:00]

• Veterans’ IOUs:
  • Hamilton's policies ensured soldiers were paid cents on the dollar, speculators reaped windfalls.

  “Madison thought it was unfair to veterans... Alexander disagrees... the speculators are profiting from the IOUs, which is great. Not ideal, but after, ‘the most mature reflection’, he decided it was a necessary evil.” – Dave [70:44]

  • Chernow’s defense:

    “‘Veterans who fought for America and sold their IOUs to speculators were in fact showing a lack of faith in America, whereas speculators... bet on America’s future and should be rewarded.’” – Dave quoting Chernow [72:12] “Ron Chernow has one of the darkest, most evil brains in America.” – Dave [72:46]

8. Hamilton’s Personality and Political Style

• Petty, status-obsessed, manipulative, and prone to grandiosity, Hamilton often undermined rivals (notably Adams) and alienated supporters.
• Lurid recurring bit about his alleged infatuation with his sister-in-law, Angelica, e.g.,

  “Oh, when I bang you, I close my eyes and think of her every time. Every time.” – Dave (as Hamilton) [54:28]

9. The Legacy: How Hamilton’s Federalist Vision Endures

• The Supreme Court, Citizens United, and the Federalist Society are framed as modern-day extensions of Hamiltonian thinking:

  “The Federalist Society has been pushing all their judges everywhere and believe this shit... It’s crazy fringe extremist shit.” – Dave [91:03]

• “The government is best which governs least” (Jefferson) vs. Hamiltonian central authority—a tension foundational to U.S. politics.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Founding Father Mythology:

  “One of the weird things—and the historian said this, and I totally agree with—everyone has a favorite founding father and then they lie about them to try to make a point that they were the best. And so that's what [Chernow]’s doing here.” – Dave [24:04]

• On Hyper-Elitism and “Soft Monarchy”:

  “We’re done with monarchy... and then we're like, ‘Let's do like the 80% monarchy.’” – Gareth [03:03]

• Sent-Up of Modern Hamilton Worship:

  “You can make a musical about Aaron Burr... Instead you pick the guy who's the opposite.” – Dave [17:48]

• On Hamilton’s methods:

  “He became almost fanatical. He made nightly visits to congressmen's homes... offering ‘promises, compromising sacrifices, and threats.’” – Dave [80:46]

• Literal receipts of slave purchases:

  “In his own cash book, in his own handwriting, of a payment to his father in law for, quote, two negro servants purchased by him for me after his death.” – Dave [22:41]

• Summary of Hamilton’s impact:

  “He did everything he wanted and he is a fucking abhorrent monster.” – Dave [04:19]
  “It’s such a great example of identity politics being used for evil.” – Dave [17:22]

• Satirical touch:

  “Let's make the Hamilton musical the real Hamilton and just be, like, real about it.” – Gareth [09:46]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Hamilton on Representation & Power:
  [02:22-05:00] – Discussion of wealth-based representation, Hamilton's elitism
• Hamilton the Lawyer, Rivalry with Burr:
  [09:09-12:29] – Comparison of styles, courtroom antics
• Hamilton, Slavery, and Historiography:
  [16:21-24:03] – Hamilton’s real record, myth vs. fact, Ron Chernow criticism
• Constitutional Convention & the Elective Monarch:
  [29:19-34:44] – Hamilton’s vision for government, wish for a king
• Federalist Papers & Ratification:
  [46:25-49:01] – Ratification fight, anti-press freedom stance
• Foundation of US Finance – Assumption & The Bank:
  [62:25-89:26] – Debt assumption, bonds, central bank, benefits to the elite
• Speculators vs. Veterans (Chernow’s take):
  [70:44-74:11] – Outrage at veterans being blamed
• Legacy in Modern America:
  [91:00-end] – Federalist Society, Supreme Court, how Hamilton’s ideology persists

---

Tone and Style

Relentlessly sardonic, mixing rigorous historical research with absurdist, often profane humor, Dave and Gareth take no prisoners—especially when debunking the sanitized legacies of powerful white men. They bring modern analogies (SCOTUS, Citizens United, football commentary), running gags, and sharp social critique, aiming to expose how much present-day American institutions remain shaped by Hamilton’s oligarchic vision.

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Useful For:

• Anyone wanting an unvarnished look at Hamilton, beyond the musical
• Listeners interested in the roots of American-class stratification and central banking
• History fans who appreciate humor and skepticism toward received narratives
• Critics of liberal mythmaking around Founding Fathers

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For full sources, see Dave’s list at the end of the episode [93:14].

Transcript

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[Dave Anthony]

My father's dead. You killed him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They think that I'm shiny.

[Dave Anthony]

I am a pie man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm Pete Rose and I only go to Gold's Gym. This one specifically.

[Dave Anthony]

Rumor is that his penis is broken.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And show up where the taco bar was.

[Dave Anthony]

His brain just fucking exploded.

[Gareth Reynolds]

River of cheese. You been drinking any gnome juice?

[Dave Anthony]

No, officer. My dad had a fart chair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, cover me.

[Dave Anthony]

We're listening to the Dollop on the All Things Comedy Network. This is a SAG AFTRA Universal podcast.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Damn right.

[Dave Anthony]

It's an American history podcast. Each week I read a story.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sound a little over the intro in this one.

[Dave Anthony]

From American history to a really annoying

[Gareth Reynolds]

guy, Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is you can get worse about. And I brought a new character with me. Hello, I'm the haunting Dutchman. We will be doing things like this intermittently throughout the show.

[Dave Anthony]

Or not. I mean, we can just end it right here. Like this could be the last one.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You've left people on a cliffhanger of Hamilton. I don't think so, buddy. Absolutely. We can keep our personal trash off air, but we're finishing this story. When we left Alexander Hamilton, he was being a huge piece of shit. And correct.

[Dave Anthony]

1793. Alexander Hamilton wrote a resolution to have representation in Congress reflect one's wealth. Quote quality. Sorry. Quote. Inequality is inherent.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So we didn't even try. I. I guess I felt like it.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, he never actually proposed it officially.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. I know.

[Dave Anthony]

Write it up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, but. But it. It's. But it passed.

[Dave Anthony]

No, we never tried for that. No, that's what you. There were guys wanting equality.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay? So we. We are done with the monarchy. We're like that. We're. We're done. And. And then we were here, and then we're like, let's do like the 80% monarchy.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I mean, that's. That's basically the point you take away from a people's History of the United States by Howard Zinn, because he basically makes a point of like, yes, these powerful rich men got rid of the crown because they wanted to be the new crown.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then what's amazing is, okay, so that exists. You would. This is what I always get so blown away by in American political culture. You would think that you would not bring. That you wouldn't, like, talk about those guys. You'd be like, they had slaves. They definitely wanted a soft monarchy. All that. And instead you're like these geniuses, they figured out how.

[Dave Anthony]

But you can. You can go in there because there's so many different opinions and you can pick from Jefferson and pick from.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right, right.

[Dave Anthony]

And you can put together a portrait of actually good things they said.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Unfortunately, Hamilton is the one who bit that built our government.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

He really did everything he wanted.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He got right.

[Dave Anthony]

And he is a fucking abhorrent monster, I hear.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just again, explain the musical. He has a music. We don't do musicals for pieces of shit.

[Dave Anthony]

No, no, we don't. He seemed to believe that inequality was inherent and when soldiers trapped.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So defeatist.

[Dave Anthony]

What do you mean it's defeatist?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, the idea that we never are. We're like, we could all be equal.

[Dave Anthony]

But he's not. He.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I know.

[Dave Anthony]

He's not being defeated. He's part of the upper crust and that's all he wants to keep power and control.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So he's even worse than defeated.

[Dave Anthony]

He's rich.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, he's defeater.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, he's from. He's tied to a rich family. He himself is not really wealthy, but he is married to. This is what.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is the same thing that happened with Stephen Miller.

[Advertiser/Host]

Just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You bullied him.

[Dave Anthony]

He's great, though.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You bullied him too much. And there's an evil volcano inside of this little. And you bullied it till magma rolled out.

[Dave Anthony]

So the soldiers are. Mags are not getting pay. So the soldiers, not the officers. Now the soldiers trap Congress in the State House and refuse to let them out until they get paid. So they send Alexander out to talk to them, and he assures them that if they let Congress leave, Congress would immediately discuss their demands. And so the soldiers agree. Alexander then asks Pennsylvania's leaders to send their militia in to attack the soldiers. They refuse. So a really upset Alexander tells Congress to escape to Princeton, which they do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. God, that felt like it couldn't get worse. And then there was the last sentence. Well, I guess we just have to escape to Princeton.

[Dave Anthony]

Man, oh, man, he's so bad. On July 1783, annoyed that Congress didn't want a strong central government, he resigned and went back to practicing law.

[Advertiser/Host]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

He moved his family onto Wall street. Got a nice house there. His legal practice.

[Gareth Reynolds]

On the nose, isn't it?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, his legal practice thrived. He needed. So people need lawyers because loyalist lawyers have all been run off after the war, right? So there's. There's like a lawyer shortage. And Alexander is. I know, awesome. Alexander's also very.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What do you call that? Utopia?

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander is also very. Oh, I should also. I should also thank someone.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So you always like to thank Shaquille.

[Dave Anthony]

So you know we got sued for 2 million, right? For the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The.

[Dave Anthony]

The tiny, tiny. The accident that only. Only damaged the frame of the license plate.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So. So our attorney. The attorney our insurance company hired turns out to be a huge dolphin.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, the attorney that the. That is incredible.

[Dave Anthony]

The attorney that the. You're the counter attorney the insurance hired for us. Yeah, for our.

[Gareth Reynolds]

For you.

[Dave Anthony]

For us.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, okay, great. That would have been amazing, too.

[Dave Anthony]

No, the other guy, the other attorney has changed his name four times and it's just like the most ambulance chasing piece of shit on the face of the earth.

[Gareth Reynolds]

One's a fan of the dollop, the other's the subject of a dollop.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So

[Dave Anthony]

our attorney, Lauren.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Great.

[Dave Anthony]

She got her dad into the dollop.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Mark Swanson. So I want to say hi. Mark.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Mark Swanson.

[Dave Anthony]

She has tried to get him into other podcasts, but Mark just says, no, I got my podcast.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's my fucking guy right there. Mark, you're a real one. You understand? We love you, baby.

[Dave Anthony]

So funny. Okay, so he. He's going to be a lawyer. He's going to make money because there's. There's few lawyers. And he's good. He's very creative and theatrical with juries. He enjoys trading barbs with the opposing counsel and witnesses with a real animosity. So much so that it shocks the court and his friends. Like, everyone's like, whoa, bro. Hey, let's calm it down a little bit.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Quiet, motherfucker. This guy sucks.

[Advertiser/Host]

Am I right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm enjoying our barbs.

[Dave Anthony]

But his fees were affordable and he did not like jokes about attorneys overcharging like you just made.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Tell you what, man. Try to get a restraining order and then have them charge you for an email when you're their. Your darkest place after they told you, like, we're good people.

[Dave Anthony]

Another hotshot lawyer was Aaron Burr.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hell yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

He often mingled. They often mingle together like they're traveling the same circles. Burr lives down the street, they are at dinners together. Burr's wife would go visit Eliza. And as lawyers, their styles are completely different. Burr is succinct and cordial. A friend. Quote, Burr would say as much in a half hour as Hamilton in two hours. Burr was 10, terse and convincing while Hamilton was flowing and rapturous. No, he's annoying.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it's annoying.

[Dave Anthony]

He's annoying.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's annoying. It's not flowing and rapturous. You know what we really should do? We should make the Hamilton musical the real Hamilton and we should make the real Hamilton musical and just be like real about it.

[Dave Anthony]

This is what it is. This is the guy. Annoying Hamilton.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Long winded loser.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander spoke for hours and Burr's arguments were on one sheet of paper.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's.

[Dave Anthony]

My God, that's the guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's the guy. Setless versus Cory Booker, right? Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander was easily goaded into reactions by insults while Burr stayed composed. But they both gained reputation.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I really do want to just picture Aaron Burr's voice like Bill Burrs for the rest of the episode, if that's okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, that's fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Out the. Where the were you?

[Dave Anthony]

They both got reputations as the best young lawyers in America.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're starting to become a little contradictory.

[Dave Anthony]

They were on the same side at times, which would cause friction once Burr was offended. So they're, they'd. They'd be brought onto the same case.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So once Burr was offended that Alexander just assumed that Alexander would be giving the closing summation.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. So then I'll obviously headline the event.

[Dave Anthony]

So Burr anticipated, is that right? Everything he would say in closing and said it in the opening statement.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He does his set list.

[Dave Anthony]

And so when it came Alexander's time to speak, he was uncharacteristically silent.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I also was going to do the airplane stuff, but I'll just move down. Obviously, Aaron did a lot of wife stuff. Huh? Inkwells. I did that too.

[Dave Anthony]

All right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Fuck. Okay, well, I think we're pretty good here.

[Dave Anthony]

You know what I think is the most fucked thing in comedy? When there's an opener and you're a headliner and the opener does a joke similar to yours and you tell them not to do that joke for the rest of the week.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Motherfucking headliner. You have shitloads of material. Opener does not. You're a dick.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Also, you're supposed to go through the. You're supposed to beat it. You're supposed to beat it. You're supposed to beat that. You're supposed to win. So if someone does something that's tough, that's like, people will say, don't do crowd work, because I do crowd work.

[Dave Anthony]

No, that's like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I've sat there before watching someone be like, here we go. This guy doing pretty good.

[Dave Anthony]

So later, Alexander said Bird's success was due to his charisma. Quote. When I analyzed his arguments, I could never discern in what his greatness consisted. So he's a little jealous. Alexander was style. You know what Alexander is? He's not a fucking man. He's just not like a man. He's a little whiny.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He doesn't have bro code.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not even bro code. He's just not. He as a. As a masculine dude, he is the bad version.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

He's not some toxic. Yeah. He doesn't stand up for the right things. He doesn't. Like, instead of going like, yeah, that guy's pretty fucking good. Yeah, he goes like, he. He not good. He's a little catty hater. Yeah, he's a hater. Alexander was stylish and had a daily barber appointment to have his reddish hair braided, brushed, and powdered.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boy. Boy. Well, okay, I'm going to be honest. Part of me mad, part of me intrigued thinking about it. A barber every day. That guy's like, that's awesome. Yep. Why don't we do Pippi today? Pippi Longstocking every day.

[Dave Anthony]

And imagine that. Imagine that this is a time when barbers braided and powdered your hair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Powdered.

[Dave Anthony]

Now they're just like, get out of here. Powdered.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. That's pretty awesome. Him walking in like James Franco on spring break. How are you? So I think I've got a motive.

[Dave Anthony]

He's raking in money because he's representing rich loyalists who are being sued by patriots.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Anthony]

According to a paper, quote, a great majority of loyalists owe the restoration of their property solely to the exertion of this able order. Many lawyers refuse to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Do you remember when Bush was president, he kept talking about these frivolous medical lawsuits. That was like, a huge thing. Yeah, it was. It's like that where you're like, wait, what? It's like, these loyalists have been through enough.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, having just been on the other side of a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Of an insurance well, yeah, she. She.

[Dave Anthony]

Her.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Her.

[Dave Anthony]

The license plate was. The license plate frame was damaged, and she said that her hips were destroyed for life, but.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Literally, physically not possible.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. Yeah. Well, it's. But it's all. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's hard to make a hero out of the healthcare industry, but.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's not even the health care. It's the attorneys.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Right, Right. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So anyway, many lawyers refused to take on the loyalists as clients, and so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because of dislikability.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. For some reason. Yeah. So the public turns on Hamilton as they saw, they had watched British atrocities during the war, specifically the deaths of 11,000 on prison ships that were anchored in the harbor. And the bones were still washing up on shore.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's a lot of people that just die on a ship now. You got to go on a carnival for that.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander Hamilton.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Alexander Hamilton.

[Dave Anthony]

Do they do that scene in the. In the music where they pick up bones?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And he's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm feeling alone on the beach with the soldier of bones. Alexander Hamilton.

[Dave Anthony]

So Eliza has a daughter named Angelica.

[Advertiser/Host]

Oh, great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Everyone's going to want to her. What did I tell your wife? Crank up, boys.

[Dave Anthony]

God damn it, this one's hot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There we are.

[Dave Anthony]

She's a baby.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know. You can see. You can see.

[Dave Anthony]

You can tell.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You can trust me. She's gonna be hot as.

[Dave Anthony]

She'd have eight kids now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You get ugly. You hear me?

[Dave Anthony]

She'd have eight living kids over 20 years.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Some of them don't make it. Alexander was a loving father who doted on the kids. He made time for his kids whenever he could. He became one of the first members of the New York Men Menu Mission Society, which worked toward abolishment of slavery in New York and ending the kidnapping of free black people and selling them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So a good thing.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Now, like a lot of people in society did own slaves.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You there. Write up that thing about how ownership of people's wrong.

[Dave Anthony]

Not for me.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. More sugar?

[Dave Anthony]

I can't do the yard work.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He had.

[Dave Anthony]

He has long been called a staunch abolitionist in biographies. But Alexander's grandson wrote in a biography that family accounts showed conclusively that he bought slaves for himself and others.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Like we said, the first part. I mean, the four others is super weird.

[Dave Anthony]

Happy birthday.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're running a twofer.

[Dave Anthony]

I bought you a human.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is so crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

In 2020, more evidence was found by a researcher that he bought and sold slaves.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now, I'm trying to think of a song in the musical about that Is that coming? I can't remember it.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, I mean, that is. It's such a great example of identity politics being used for evil because they essentially, by doing that cast, they whitewash what he is, which is a slave owner.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I mean, even. Yes. And then also it's like, as a musical. It just. Like a musical.

[Dave Anthony]

And also you have a guy you can make a musical about that likes all the stuff you like. It's called Aaron Burr.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's the. That. That is really the.

[Dave Anthony]

Instead of the guy that's the opposite.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now, how. I mean, obviously we have no insight into this. Do you have any idea as to far. Like, how did he just read the wrong book?

[Dave Anthony]

Who? Oh, he read Cherno's book.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah. But is. Did he just pick up the wrong book and he's like, oh, well, Cherno's

[Dave Anthony]

book was a bestseller.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Did his, like, liberal pipeline get him to the point where he's like, I trust this guy.

[Dave Anthony]

The liberals love the Chernow book and the Chernobyl book misrepresents. And Chernow is started out as a financial guy, so he loves Hamilton. He's a financial guy. He worked in finance, and finance guys jerk off over Hamilton. So you took the word of a

[Gareth Reynolds]

money guy, by the way, and made a lot of money.

[Dave Anthony]

Ah, a lot of money. Okay, so in 2020, more evidence was found by a researcher that he bought and sold slaves. The researcher, Jesse Serfilippi, quote, not only did Alexander Hamilton enslave people, but his involvement in the institution of slavery was essential to his identity, both personally and professionally. The denial and obscuration of these facts in nearly every major biography written about him over the past two centuries has erased the people he enslaved from history.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Anthony]

Which is what the. Which is then what the. The musical does. The best known Hamilton biography by Ron Chernow called him a, quote, uncompromising abolitionist for others and insinuates that he had a stronger stance against slavery than John Adams, who famously never owned a slave and said he would never rent slave labor. When two petitions came before Congress in the very early days, and I want to say one of them was done by. By Aaron Burr, but I might be wrong to abolish slavery and the slave trade, Alexander voiced no support for either. Chernow conceded he may have owned, quote, one or two slaves, or as he calls it, an uncompromising abolitionist.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is, those thoughts are in the same book. Yes, Uncompromising abolition owned a couple.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. I think he may. Because his book came out after 20. His book came out before 2020, I'm pretty sure.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, definitely did because of Hamilton.

[Dave Anthony]

So. So when this guy found the research, actual proof, then he's like, we may have owned one or two slaves.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So I own two slaves.

[Dave Anthony]

That doesn't mean I don't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, everybody owns a couple of them.

[Dave Anthony]

So Chernow does not buy the researcher's statement.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, it would be a big. A big admission. All right, fine. And then Lin Manuel Miranda has to go back to the musical, be like, all right, we're doing. We're going to do one duet between the slaves and then we're out.

[Dave Anthony]

There's going to be one where we buy a slave.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There's just going to be the slave thing.

[Dave Anthony]

A buying slave number.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, buying slave one.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I know what we'll do. We'll have the slave in the cast be white.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm going to stand up real quick. I don't know what we're doing anymore, and I don't know why. That would be fucking incredible.

[Dave Anthony]

That would be amazing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

White slave.

[Dave Anthony]

So. So he doesn't buy what the researcher

[Gareth Reynolds]

said, Been through enough.

[Dave Anthony]

He doesn't buy what the researcher said, even though Chernow says it, quote, broadens our sense of Hamilton's involvement of slavery in a number of ways.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Am I the only one who sees this as a good thing?

[Dave Anthony]

He says Sir Philippe didn't discuss Alexander's involvement in abolitionist societies. End quot amidst all information that would contradict her conclusions. Chernow wrote in passing that he did purchase slaves at an auction, but downplays it, saying they were probably just for his sister. I mean, they're probably just gifts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just an impulse buy, like a magazine or some more orbits.

[Dave Anthony]

He didn't want them. He gave them away.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, for God's sake. Not for himself.

[Dave Anthony]

Sometimes you buy people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Listen, listen, listen to me. A gift for someone else is not you co signing the movement. All right? I for one have fought a tremendous amount of marijuana for a friend, and yet I abstain. Although I do smoke from time to time, as do my slaves.

[Dave Anthony]

Sir Philippe found an entry in Alexander's Slaves are great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They make my life so much easier.

[Dave Anthony]

In his own cash book, in his own handwriting, of a payment to his father in law for, quote, two negro servants purchased by him for me after his death.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is the most incriminating receipt. I mean, you talk about having receipts. You have a literal receipt for two slaves from my daddy in the payment of this signed Alexander Hamilton for sure. Me

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander sorry. When he died, servants and their values were listed as assets. So.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So he didn't even learn his lesson in his life.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, but it's bullshit. And the fact that Chernow did this is fucking. It's scumbaggery.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Because the last thing we should be doing a myth with is, is fucking slave owners.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, how about this included in the con and then allow people to still decide if they love this. But we all.

[Dave Anthony]

We all know that the founding fathers were mostly either slave owners or pro slavery. And so. So you just factor that into your little fucking book. I'm sorry, you need to jerk the guy off.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

One of the weird things. And the historian said this, and I totally agree with Everyone has a favorite founding father, and then they lie about them to try to make a point that they were the best. And so that's what he's doing here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But John Adams. No slaves.

[Dave Anthony]

But John Adam's huge piece of.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

No slaves, but very like Trumpy and tyrant kind of stuff.

[Advertiser/Host]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

Ben Franklin, I don't know if he had slaves.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He did.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, he probably did. They all did. I mean, except Burr. I don't think Bird did, but some. Some did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I'm not gonna do that.

[Dave Anthony]

Jefferson didn't just had him. He them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's why a lot of them were doing that.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander lobbied.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Think it I might be wrong.

[Dave Anthony]

Sorry, I said I meant rape.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus,

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's put him on money. How does that sound? Everyone, let's just put them on money. What do we think, huh?

[Dave Anthony]

So Alexander lobbies for the establishment of the bank of New York, which came to be in 1784. He was the bank's lawyer. He's on the board of directors. He wrote the charter, but he was troubled as Governor George Clinton. New York Governor George Clinton rose. Yeah, we're finally getting some funk in this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right.

[Dave Anthony]

Rose to power not through Senator Bootsy Collins.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Baby.

[Dave Anthony]

Clinton rose to power not through a prominent family or wealthy connections, but by whipping up what he called hysteria in the commoners, uniting them against loyalists. And Clinton is not into Alexander's beloved banking system.

[Gareth Reynolds]

God damn. So we've talked about him on the podcast before.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, he's come up a few times. So even though Alexander came from the. The childhood he did, he does not want to see ordinary people challenging the elite.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So the whole close door behind you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah, it is. Once you get on the other side.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. This is who we are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, this is. Yeah, yeah. It's the Keir Starmer. My father was a tool maker. My father was a tool make.

[Dave Anthony]

His father in law ran Against Clinton for governor, but lost.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

So he's really mad that Clinton won.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

And he complained that Clinton's, quote, family and connections do not entitle him to be so distinguished as predominance. It's lowborn.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's endlessly. This is the endless thing, is to find ways to just. I mean, look, you're. You're not gonna. Someone's not. You're just gonna be able to pull these threads. You have to fight through for ideology and just be like,

[Dave Anthony]

it's kings and queen shit.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

We.

[Dave Anthony]

We won the revolution. But there's still in the hearts of many a desire for a royal court and all that. And they're recreating it wherever they can.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

The elite after the revolution did not want.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, remember Chuck Schumer? He used to do stuff publicly, didn't he? That was funny.

[Dave Anthony]

The resistance, the elite after the revolution did not want to give the propertyless hordes any real power. Alexander also hated a guy named Abraham Yates who thought the wealthy landowners should pay more taxes. Alexander complained of his, quote, ignorance and perverseness. That's perverse.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

It's.

[Dave Anthony]

What's going on today with this is newsome. Endless right now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander feared democracy, writing in 1785 that democratic tendencies would empower men who are not sufficiently disinterested in politics as men of wealthy families are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is the.

[Dave Anthony]

They will be too.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You got to write 30 pages to come up with that.

[Dave Anthony]

They will be too into politics, meaning wanting stuff.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. They will have. Right.

[Dave Anthony]

He believed that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Imagine is.

[Dave Anthony]

He believed that since the rich were already comfortable in life, they wouldn't fall prey to selfish influence.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is the dude. It's truly the. Like, he made a lot of money. He's a good businessman. Let's get him in there to fix everything. Yeah. Yeah. That's how that works. That guy got there because he was

[Dave Anthony]

using fair practices, unlike the common man who just wanted to use politics to better his own station.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I honestly. I think part of it is we're just so tired that we're just like, whatever, do it. Whatever. You know what I mean? We're just, like, done. It's like, we don't buy it, but just. Just go quick and, you know, just fine. Do it. Hurry.

[Dave Anthony]

Seeing men like Clinton and Yates find success in politics cemented his need to consolidate power in a strong federal government. The first Constitution promoted strong states and a weak central government that wouldn't tax or overall states. And he thought that would lead to absolute disaster. So Alexander runs for a seat In New York's assembly in 1786 and wins. He was then sent as a delegate to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia in 1787. That's surely why he ran.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, just to go to the event,

[Dave Anthony]

to go to the Constitution, you must write the Constitution.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

The convention was very secret. They agreed not to. This is a great. So our. Our heralded constitution written in secret. They agree not to publish anything that's said. Said publicly.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

No publishing. There's no journalists allowed. And there's guards at the doors

[Gareth Reynolds]

because, you know the first draft where they were like, they'll kill us.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, this is crazy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, I gotta.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look, I think we call it a king idea. Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

Invisible ink.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's pretty good. Oh, man, the shit they must have been saying.

[Dave Anthony]

Dude, they met on the second floor so people wouldn't hear them through the windows.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Man. Oh, man, they had to be saying some fucking. All right, look, we got it out. We got the vomit draft. Now let's think about what we can survive.

[Dave Anthony]

So Alexander is very anxious. Most of the men would not jeopardize the interests of their home states for a strong federal government. And he worried this is the only chance he would ever have to make it happen. After three weeks of silence, he finally speaks. For five or six hours, you just hear the gunshots of people taking themselves out. Strong national.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's what they did on the second floor.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey, Strong national government, etc, blah, blah. Modeled after Britain's, quote, the best model the world has ever produced.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, bro.

[Dave Anthony]

Due in part to its resistance to change.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, dude, sorry. I'm pretty sure the whole thing we just went through through was to.

[Dave Anthony]

It's now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Completely resistant to change. That's what he wanted. Society was already divided into the few and the many. And the few were already happy with their lot, but the many were unhappy. And so they would constantly work for change. So this is the bad. This is the bad part. So America needs a constitution allowing the rich to be principal actors in the government which would, quote, check the imprudence of democracy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My fucking. Of democracy. We need to be careful, otherwise they might try to do democracy.

[Dave Anthony]

I'll never. In this democracy, I will never fucking forget doing the Burr episodes and calling him fascistic. And how many fucking people cried and screamed at me. This is extremely fascistic. Everything that he is in his core is extremely fascist.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We have such a fear, like, you hear this now, where people like, almost like how you just repeat a subliminal message of. But capitalism is the best system ever.

[Dave Anthony]

Like, it's a terrible system. It's like, it's like hilariously bad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

It's, it's just so dumb.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. And it, it's, it's, it is when you listen to the people who are talking about it.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's these people.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who are just going, there's nothing else you could do.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is the best way that makes sense to me. It's the struggling people who are like, well, what are you going to do? Communism.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Anyway, I'm going to eat my thumbs.

[Dave Anthony]

If you're poor, you don't want to have communism, you're out of your fucking tree.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, you just, it really shows that you've. You've been had.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, well, because you're fighting for a system that keeps you oppressed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. And heralding these people who have their boots on your throat.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. It's really crazy. So anyway, he wanted to split Congress. A lower house elected for three year terms and an upper house whose members would serve for life. Chosen by members.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So kingy, even now when you're here at Pitch Back, the king.

[Dave Anthony]

We're not there yet. Hold on. And they'd be chosen by members of the electoral college who were elected by the public and quote, unelective monarch with a lifetime appointment. Who would be above temptation. He wanted a king

[Gareth Reynolds]

who would be above temptation is the funny part. What? Yeah, that's the whole king problem. Wait, what? So we're gonna do a king who's really good at this, but we pick him. But we pick him and he's there for life. And he's not gonna be a fucking piece of shit. You understand? That's the difference. Our king's not gonna suck. King chill. We'll call him and he'll sit upon a throne of truth. Jesus Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

The monarch would have total elective monarch would have total control. The military, a veto and authority over international financial.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So in other words, a just a king. Just go back to the monarchy.

[Dave Anthony]

Power and control of, of the lifetime senators and the president, basically.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So essentially he, he, it almost is talking about a more powerful king in a way. But he wants one with a government that he can overrule. Pretty much.

[Dave Anthony]

He wants a king that can overrule the people.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And a senate so all lifetime members, so they can overrule and basically control everything. But he got that. Because I would argue that SCOTUS are kings in a way.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, you can even looking now. I mean, you can, you know, look,

[Dave Anthony]

they're make, they're making the craziest laws that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it does it. If you have the power to go change the checks and balances, well then what's the point of the checks and balances?

[Dave Anthony]

Like, Woody Allen's bananas when he goes down there and. And he's like, yeah, everyone wear pants from the inside out or whatever. I mean, makes a law. Like, that's exactly what our SCOTUS is right now. Just doing the crazy. Everyone's like, well, I mean, eight guys or nine guys said it, so it's got to be a thing we all

[Gareth Reynolds]

do, you know, look, they got there.

[Dave Anthony]

Them's the rules.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then, and then you go. And then you're like, oh, we're gonna go outside his house and protest. And they're like, what the actual. Are you pieces of doing the. You have some respect for Brett Kavanaugh's property.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so the elected monarch and other officials would come from elite stock and. And meta meddlesome, quote, trifling charact, easily overstepped. That's basically what you just said.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you judging the meddling characters again? Oh, why?

[Dave Anthony]

The elite king historian John Frilling quote. Hamilton's way of thinking was not one of compassion. It was an expression of the elite's overarching desire to preserve their exalted status. And its class based anti democratic spirit not only would characterize Hamilton's thought for the remainder of his life, but it would also remain the driving force behind much of conservative philosophy for generations to come.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, there. I mean, there you go. I think that's. I don't think we need to do the rest of the episodes because that is as. I mean, that completely undercuts everything. And I, I, you know, why does it take. We just believe everything? Like, I. Look, I'm gonna. I told you I watched Hamilton the Musical. I was like, that's pretty good.

[Advertiser/Host]

I.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Why, why are. Why is there never the truth pipeline? Why is it not as. As strong? That's why we got to make the Hamilton for Real musical.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, that. That's always the problem, right? Is whenever something becomes popular, like, well, this is. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And then you're just like, wait, what?

[Dave Anthony]

And the fact that Democrats, the ones who embraced it, you're just like, it's a conservative douche nozzle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know the. But it was a musical.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, it's like literally, however, like, this is what buttresses the argument the right has against the liberals. Stuff like this. Yeah, it's like they made a musical about a fascist and you're Humming the songs. Yeah, yeah, okay. Hey, everybody, it's Gareth the day from the Dolph. Listen, my movie Give it up is going to be doing a screening in Los Angeles July 28th in North Hollywood. You can go to giveitupfilm.com or you can just go to my website, garethreynolds.com but I'd love to see you there. That's July 28th. I think it's the Lemley in North Hollywood.

[Dave Anthony]

You can only get a Tuesday. Huh?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a big theater. Jerk.

[Dave Anthony]

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I a couple times and I'll own some of the issues. I've had to call Chewy. They answer faster than any other service without question. You're like, hey, I ordered the wrong filters from my cat's water fountain. And they're like, ah, keep it. Send you a new one.

[Dave Anthony]

Now the only, the only drawback is that they're always chewing tobacco.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, they are. Really. That's where the name comes from. And they're really stuck to that. They really are.

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We're talking about. Look. You talking about my penis?

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Yep.

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Yep.

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[Gareth Reynolds]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, David,

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Here's one for you. There I am, drunk with Steve Berg, trying to show him my special. He doesn't have an Apple tv, so I download a program to show it off my phone. 9.95amonth it is. And I'm drunk and I go, yeah, okay. Three weeks later, before it renews, Rocket Money saves me from paying for a screen mirroring thing that didn't even work.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a thing. Oh, yeah. It's a big bottle.

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[Gareth Reynolds]

Rocket Money. Rocket Money. Rocket Money. Go ahead and save yourself some pocket money, Gareth.

[Dave Anthony]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

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[Advertiser/Host]

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[Gareth Reynolds]

Whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

The other New York delegates enjoy your convention. The other New York delegates never voted with him. And an attendee said that caused Hamilton to be, quote, so much mortified that he went home.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now, my guess, this is what I

[Dave Anthony]

was talking about when he's not a man thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My guess is that they're not doing that because it's so obviously too. Too much.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's too much.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So they, they're like, yeah, you're right. But bro, we can't go on the record with this.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. So in a. In a group of what I would say are probably conservative leaning guys, he's like way out on the right, right? Yeah. After much compromise, a constitution was drafted and signed by 36 delegates from 12 states. And he's the only signer from New York. But the states now have to ratify it. People in urban areas favored ratification and rural areas did not. Supporters, including Alexander, were called Federalists and a opposition were called anti Federalists. And Federalists have the upper hand because George Washington already signed it. The press overwhelmingly backed it, and Federalists are united in the way. The anti Federalists, of course, are not, Right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. The anti Federal. Yeah, well, yeah, because they have the machine. They're in the driver's seat.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. The money and the banks. The fight over ratification was at fever pitch in New York. Governor Clinton was strongly anti Federalist and he made wild speculations about what would be in the Constitution should a very angry Alexander wrote an essay criticizing him. And then Clinton supporters attacked Alexander. One of those was a fictional story about Tom, an illegitimate son from the Caribbean who thought farm overseers should be appointed for life.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love how long swears have been around. That's so great, Tom.

[Dave Anthony]

They called him conceited and wrote that George Washington really didn't like him. And Alexander confessed, this quote hurts my feelings.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Gotcha, Tom.

[Dave Anthony]

So to get this passed, to get it ratified, he writes essays in a collection called the Federalist Papers. Working with James Madison and John Jay to anonymously publish 85 essays from October 1787 through May 1788 under the pseudonymous them Publius. Alexander wrote 51 of 80 of the 85. Of course he focused on the executive and judicial branches, taxes and the need for standing army. Man, did he love a standing army idea. He said it would not lead to the government being run by the wealthy and well born. No social class would. He literally. He literally. That's what his whole speech was. But now he's like, well this isn't what I wanted, so it's not going to be that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Then why are you for it?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

No social class would yield total control. And he backed off the elected monarch thing and now wanted a four year term because that's what everyone else wanted. Yeah, yeah, but we know, yeah, we know what he wanted. He wrote against, including. He wrote against, including the Bill of Rights.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A little much, isn't it? Come on.

[Dave Anthony]

Saying there was no need for freedom of the press with the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We don't need that.

[Dave Anthony]

Since there were no laws saying anything to the contrary.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Since there were no. So.

[Dave Anthony]

So you don't need to say. Because press needs freedom.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. Because hey, can we get ahead of some stuff? No, wait until it happens, you idiot. What are you talking about?

[Dave Anthony]

Libertarianism in a nutshell.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right. Yeah, enough. Yeah. You don't need government protections.

[Dave Anthony]

And, and I always go back to the fact that the Democrats have never villainized the federalist society, the driving society behind all of our destruction, you know, through the judges, especially scotus. But you know, that's who these, that's what they are. Yeah, they're these guys.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This is their, you know, the Democrats are. You ever get, if you ever watch football and you get to a two minute drill and you have a defensive coordinator who decides to just do regular coverage and you're just watching the offense carve you up slowly instead of being able to bomb it down the field, right. And it's just kind of the slower painful death where you know it's going to end in the last second field goal, but you just have to experience it, even though you know the outcome. But the whole time you're sitting there and you're like One turnover. One turnover. One turnover. And it's never going to happen.

[Dave Anthony]

It never happens. So New York's ratification convention. He made very long speeches, and he hotly debated anyone who disagreed with him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But a lot of people probably quit on him from fatigue. They're like, fine, fucking, let's do a king.

[Dave Anthony]

He absolutely sounds like one of those guys that you just stop arguing with because he just won't stop. My loud opinion overcomes your reason thought, you know, but it doesn't matter because once. Once Virginia ratified, then New York immediately did. And after he writes Washington. Now, they had avoided each other after the war. He did not visit Washington when he was in Philadelphia. He did not go to a party that Washington threw even. They just lived blocks away. But he thinks Washington should be.

[Gareth Reynolds]

To be fair, he might have been high.

[Dave Anthony]

He might have been high, but he thinks Washington should be the first leader of the country. And because if Washington is the first leader, who's gonna get a cabinet job, Right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. Yeah. He really is meant for politics. Yeah. I mean, his ideology is perfect. I'm a member of the ME Party.

[Dave Anthony]

So he goes to Washington, and Washington says the idea makes him feel, quote, a kind of.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wait, sorry, what's going on?

[Advertiser/Host]

The.

[Dave Anthony]

The idea you just told me about being the first leader, it makes me feel, like, black and dead inside. Like. Yeah, but you can. I feel like I'm just filled with cobwebs and of dread spiders. Does that make sense?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Please.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, awesome. So Washington just wants to go to Mount Vernon, retire, and kick it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

See, that's because he's, like, the richest

[Dave Anthony]

guy in the country, Morris Alexander. He knows the buttons to push on Washington. And so he says, look, they're probably

[Gareth Reynolds]

going to invent teeth soon.

[Dave Anthony]

He says, if the US Fails, people will blame you for not serving and ruin your reputation. So Washington agrees to do it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

He's such a manipulator. All right, all right, all right. I'll spiderweb it. I'll doom and gloom. And so obviously, he gets elected super easy. There's one small hiccup. Congress votes for president by casting two votes. One for president, one for vice president. So technically, if the opposing party or whatever is playing shenanigans, the VP could get more votes than the president and become the president. Okay, so.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Dave Anthony]

And Washington and Adams are running for president. Vice President. So Alexander's freaking out about this, and he runs around making all the electors promise to withhold their vote from Adams to make sure the other party doesn't get. But Washington Just wins easily because it's fucking Washington. So his whole panic thing was pointless, but it led to Adams getting this horrifyingly low number of votes, which totally humiliates him. And then later on he finds out what Alexander had done and he was pissed and they were done. Like he hated him forever. So Angelica comes to visit. That is his wife's sister, right? They got a thing. They got a thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She likes him.

[Dave Anthony]

He clearly is like. I should have met her first.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What was that, honey?

[Dave Anthony]

Nothing, I just was talking about maybe

[Gareth Reynolds]

banging your sister into your mug.

[Dave Anthony]

I did. No, I just said I wish I. You know what, Say it. Your sister's like. She's hot.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, she's great.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. I love her.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love her.

[Dave Anthony]

I love her.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, I was thinking the other day, if things had played out differently, you could have ended up with her.

[Dave Anthony]

That's what I was thinking. I think that a lot. I think that all the time. I keep thinking me, I wake up

[Gareth Reynolds]

and I think ended up with me.

[Dave Anthony]

And I go to bed and I.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But you've ended up with me.

[Dave Anthony]

When I am inside of you, I'm thinking that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But you've ended up with me. Who dresses like Whistler's mother. Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

Look at your little black eyes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know. I'm like a character in Bird Box.

[Dave Anthony]

It's very.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's.

[Dave Anthony]

It's very like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And you know what's crazy? The day that we met, she was going to be there in my stead and she wasn't. And instead you found me and we were engaged immediately.

[Dave Anthony]

I. When I.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now you've been put 13 babies in me. Eight have made it.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, when I bang you, I close my eyes and think of her every time. Every time.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can you.

[Dave Anthony]

Can I call you Angelica?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Call me whatever you want. It doesn't change that your mind.

[Dave Anthony]

She's coming to visit. Will you leave?

[Gareth Reynolds]

She is coming to visit and I'll be right here. Cuz I think you want to do something with her.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay?

[Gareth Reynolds]

And you're not going to. You're mine, all mine. My little baby Hamilton. I'm thinking of getting rid of my vagina. She said strike you.

[Dave Anthony]

Angelica lived in England now and missed Alexander deeply. She told Eliza that she was jealous that she spoke to Alexander every day.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, it's funny because we were just having a conversation the other day about how you and him were almost ended up taking together and instead it's me.

[Dave Anthony]

Could you imagine saying that to your sister?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I just. I wish she was mine. Are you good otherwise.

[Dave Anthony]

She also asked her Sister for forgiveness. If her letters to him sometimes would be, quote, a little saucy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll be honest, I did a handful of pubes in the last one and I feel bad about it.

[Dave Anthony]

So this visit led to more gossip.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Did I tell you that the last one I scooted along like a dog with a butt itch?

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. I did the thing where I put my hands down and put the letter there and then I sort of just kind of moved my.

[Dave Anthony]

So I'm gonna go to bed. Thank you. Good night.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It'll tell you my lesson. No, let me tell you my lesson. I should have signed it afterwards because I got ink all over my area.

[Dave Anthony]

All right, thank you. Good night.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good night, babe.

[Dave Anthony]

So this visit, it leads to more gossip about their relationship because people had overheard a joke by one of their other sisters, Peggy, insinuating that Alexander would love to be inside Angelica's bedchamber.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow, a funny joke. What's the punchline? It's been really stressful for the family to find bedchamber. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

When she left, Alexander wrote of watching her ship sail off. Quote, imagine what we felt. We gazed, we sighed, we wept.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What'd hun. Nothing.

[Dave Anthony]

She's thinking to myself about the boat.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What about what boat? Any boat.

[Dave Anthony]

Just that one out there that she's on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, oh yeah, of course. The one that Angelica's on. Just imagining she's on that one. And you know what's crazy? We're not going to see her for so long. I mean, it takes so long for that boat to get there. And then she's going to have such a long adjustment period and she's so busy. Part of me wonders if we'll ever see her again.

[Dave Anthony]

I took a pair of her panties.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, you do whatever you need. As long as you're getting your bread buttered here.

[Dave Anthony]

Used to.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, okay, whatever. That's fine. I'll wash them later. Don't worry. You know what I was thinking?

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Maybe tonight. No. We blow the candles out and lay in bed and I fart like I'm your mama.

[Dave Anthony]

Jesus Christ.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What do you think?

[Dave Anthony]

I know she died in that bed. Yeah, I know the wrong with you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know. I'm just trying to keep it spicy.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not spicy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's your fetish?

[Dave Anthony]

Sisters?

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's not gonna work for me. Come to bed. I'll dutch up.

[Dave Anthony]

So Washington. Washington takes office on 4-30-17.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's, you know, the most sized during an inauguration since Trump.

[Dave Anthony]

So he chooses Adams and Alexander to help guide him through the process.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Adam said presidential conduct should allow for character differences as it's inevitable that it would vary due to personality. So like everyone's gonna be different. So just do your thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander is like, no, act like British royalty. So Washington did.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sorry. So the one, Adams is like Adams? No. Yeah. Adams is like, all right, yeah, just try to look, be yourself and we'll kind of sculpt it around you. But kind of stick to some of the rules a little bit. And Hamilton's like, you're supposed to be a king. Basically do it right.

[Dave Anthony]

And so Washington listens to Alexander. He has formal weekly receptions and bowed rather than shaking hands. He rode in fancy carriages with bewigged servants. Rich conservatives love it. But the everyday Americans are like, wait, what?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

What are you doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it's like the Met gala.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Alexander works behind the scenes to get his two. So there's gonna be two senators from New York. So he's working behind the scenes to get the ones he wants.

[Gareth Reynolds]

First choice, Shoe Schumer.

[Dave Anthony]

First choice Schumer. First choice, father in law, Philip Schuller. So there's three very power the powerful New York families, the Schullers, the Clintons and the Livingstons. And Philip offered to support the Livingston's candidate if they supported him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, so Clinton.

[Dave Anthony]

But Alexander wants his buddy Rufus King.

[Advertiser/Host]

King.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And we'll get a king. Somehow I'm hell bent on you gotta get a king.

[Dave Anthony]

And he convinces Philip to go back on his word to the Livingstons and support King and then King wins. And so from then on, the Livingstons and the Clintons joined together and formed an alliance. And they would forever make everything difficult for Alexander in New York.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

So.

[Dave Anthony]

Which was just such a dumb.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

It's just crazy. So Washington, nomin again.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The fact that it's never made sense

[Dave Anthony]

and he, he just always wants his weight. He doesn't care how he gets it right. Washington nominated. Yeah. Washington nominated 34 year old Alexander to lead Treasury. So he joins a small cabinet made up of the Secretary of War. Henry Knox. I think is the big.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is that the guy dove behind?

[Dave Anthony]

I think it's big boy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, great. Hello, Bunker.

[Dave Anthony]

I was in front of you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, I tell you what, you stay right there. You're a wall to me. I'm kidding. It's really good to see you.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

You are a.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You've gotten fatter.

[Dave Anthony]

What are you doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're getting a lot fatter and I think that's great for protection.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm doing a pie diet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A piet A piet. Yeah. You're on a pie It. Yes. Who's recommending that?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, my mom.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hello.

[Dave Anthony]

Also the Secretary of State, Thomas Jefferson.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So, yeah, I'm a fucking nightmare.

[Dave Anthony]

Adams is rarely invited to contribute in the meetings. Alexander got a 3,500 per year salary, so it's less than he would make as a lawyer, but it's pretty good money. And he, as soon as he gets put on made Treasury Secretary, he goes on a fucking hiring spree because I guess they didn't say what your department department should be. So he just starts hiring people left to right. He hires 39 people, right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, they wouldn't know. I mean, they're just like, all right, you know, you're the Treasury. He's like, great, I'll need a staff and some quarters and a carriage, basically. And.

[Dave Anthony]

And the next biggest is the State department, which is five people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I did 39. What'd you do? Five?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I don't need. Why would you need 39?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's the average? Is anyone else in the 30s?

[Dave Anthony]

Four.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Four is the average.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I thought I limited myself. No, you did. I wanted to do over.

[Dave Anthony]

No. It's crazy, huh? Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So maybe Alexander. Ha.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know. What are you doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

This little thing I've been tinkering with, it's just kind of a. I don't know. Have you ever seen your name?

[Dave Anthony]

No.

[Gareth Reynolds]

His name is Alexander.

[Dave Anthony]

Generally insane.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm in the room where.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so he has to come up with this report really quick in like 100 days on America's credit. Credit for the House of Representatives. So he spends days and nights in his office and he cranks out a 40,000 word report.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This motherfucker, this absolute.

[Dave Anthony]

That's. It shows America's debt at 52 million and the state's combined debts at 25 million.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sounds so cute.

[Dave Anthony]

So cute. Now, some representatives called it, and also Alexander, absolute genius. Others read it. Strenuous objections. Some were confused at his silence by the insanely long, detailed and complex report. They're like, I don't want to read this. Come on, I have a family.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It really is the more text.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I would be so mad if I got that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what? I'm gonna go fold this up and beat the out of it with it. How's that sound?

[Dave Anthony]

So entity calls on the government to repay the national debt and assume the state's debt debts, which would create a new national debt. This was called assumption. And he saw the new debt as a lifeline for America So he sees assumption as well as a well from which the government can draw as America expanded. So it's a line of credit sort of thing. He calls it a national blessing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean we are really, we are, we are true to our roots. That is, it's just phenomenal.

[Dave Anthony]

He wants the government to finance it through taxation and issuing bonds to the rich.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

Literally.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Reagan.

[Dave Anthony]

Those two work together great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The bonds, we call it ye trickle economics.

[Dave Anthony]

The bonds would increase government debt. That while tying the wealthy to the government, which would create a powerful force that would work to grow federal power and increase taxation to help pay down the interest.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I cannot believe we didn't have a shot. I, I, I just thought we like veered off the plan. We had no shot.

[Dave Anthony]

This all happened.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There was never a shot.

[Dave Anthony]

It was. We did. If, if he didn't talk Washington into running for president, this wouldn't have happened.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who would we have had?

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know, maybe Adams Historian William Hoagland quote, wealth would be concentrated in the hands of muddied investors. Their ambitions would fund the nation's ambitions. So to get the rich to buy bonds, the interest would be paid by the people by taxing domestic products as well as imports.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ports.

[Dave Anthony]

So southern. So you're just taking the money from the port.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So Southern states so that the rich stay interested. So Southern states, God forbid they don't look interested in this. Yeah, yeah, I guess you're looking for what we call a heart. And that's not going to exist inside of a rich.

[Dave Anthony]

Southern states are not down with this because they'd mostly paid off their debt. And this is only going to benefit

[Gareth Reynolds]

the northern states, by the way areas. The Southern states are like, we're flush.

[Dave Anthony]

So the plan draws protests.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And what is your problem with this perfect idea, for God's sake? The rich will be interested, you'll pay for it.

[Dave Anthony]

Part of it was redemption. So that meant to pay down the current domestic debt which is basically owed to soldiers of the Revolutionary War.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We didn't pay them, but they off already.

[Dave Anthony]

So it's over. So the idea done, you little louses. Go back home. Oh, you don't have a home. Lay in the mud.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are you still mad about not getting paid for the war? We said you'd get paid for get out of here.

[Dave Anthony]

So, so the idea was the government would pay out securities that issued to these veterans. So basically they gave the veterans IOUs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

IOU's, their securities. So many of the soldiers though lost everything during the war because they weren't getting any money. And Ended up cashing out the IOUs for cents on the dollar to speculators because they got to feed their families. So the speculators.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I can't wait.

[Dave Anthony]

Take advantage of the desperation because they know or they believe the government's going to pay out the IOU at some point. Okay, so right before Alexander presents his report on public credit, the value of the IOUs shoots up from 18 cents to 50 cents. So wealthy speculators send men to rural areas where news gets to more slowly. These are to buy up the IOUs.

[Gareth Reynolds]

These are. You still have those? What are you holding on to them for, fella? Hey, man, that's fool's gold. I'll tell you what, we'll take it for 20 cents. I mean, excuse us while we run the. Out of here.

[Dave Anthony]

We have just. People just always been.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I mean. Well, yeah, listen, with. It's. It's just so tiring. If it's not poly market, it's insider trading. If it's not insider trading, it's just.

[Dave Anthony]

It's all the same, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of it. Alexander was surprised that his friend James Madison strongly disagreed with the plan. Madison thought it was unfair to veterans.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In what. Excuse me?

[Dave Anthony]

How in the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

In what way Way is this unfair to say we are taking those IOUs from them? They need that because we didn't support them in the first place, so now they need that. Is that where the one crutch look comes from? They were like, I could only afford the one. The first guy who like, came in with two crutches, they were like, have you seen fancy pants? He's got two crutches.

[Dave Anthony]

It's amazing people still join the military after, you know, because this is what's always been. This is just always.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, it's like one of the few ways now to be like, yeah, hey, there's no jobs. Yeah, I'm outside of your high school.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Want some money?

[Dave Anthony]

So. So Madison thinks that the. The soldiers sacrificed everything and they deserve to get the fair share of the securities they were given as pay instead of speculators getting it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm very lost.

[Dave Anthony]

So he says the speculator reimbursed for what they paid for the IOUs, and then the rest given to the veterans. So that's a very like.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm trying to figure out.

[Dave Anthony]

The speculators will get their money back. The veterans will get their money, everything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Speculators could get all of the veterans money. Right.

[Dave Anthony]

But what we're saying is they shouldn't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That the veterans, the. The The. The speculators.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are. The rich. Are very. Are doing well.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

They're.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they're.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So let's get them where they need to be.

[Dave Anthony]

They already are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are. But then. No, they could be way higher.

[Dave Anthony]

No, but there's. There's no but. We want all rise, all boats.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The. The soldiers are weak.

[Dave Anthony]

What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

The soldiers are weak and they can't fight us. And the speculators will be rich and we'll get. You know that money's coming right back to us in a great way. Have you heard of a caviar cannon? It's. I swear to God, I was at Tom's the other night and he has one. A cracker. Yours can suck my dick.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because this cannon.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Shoots cav into your mouth.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, my God.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just awesome. Okay. The veterans.

[Advertiser/Host]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Thank you. Welcome, Alexander Hamilton. My name is Alexander Ham.

[Dave Anthony]

So, Alexander, can we do a class

[Gareth Reynolds]

action lawsuit against Lin Manuel Miranda?

[Dave Anthony]

Well, you're going to get a Cherno thing in a sec, which I think you might actually, actually think is worse. Alexander disagrees with Monroe's everything should be equal thing. He. He gets. The speculators are profiting from the IOUs, which is great. Instead of the veterans, he gets great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We love that.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not ideal. That's what he said. Not ideal. But after, quote, the most mature reflection, he decided it was a necessary evil.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I've done some thinking and I think I'm gonna do it. I think we should do.

[Dave Anthony]

Doesn't matter how much you think about it. There's literally no way it's good. Yeah. You're literally just saying. You just like. Well, I thought about this. I put some mature thought into it, and I've decided that, like, the guys who fought just shouldn't have any money and it should just all go to the rich people because they bought it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So did a lot of soul searching out on that walk, and I think I landed in a good place. Place.

[Dave Anthony]

So it turns out I'm evil.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We should kill the veterans.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Use them as, like, what do you. What do you put in the dirt to make stuff grow? Like a fertilizer. Yeah, totally.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I completely agree.

[Dave Anthony]

Biographer Ron Cherno wrote, quote, hamilton stole the moral high ground from opponents. Are you ready?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

This is amazing. This is. This should be put on his tombstone. By arguing instead of being victims, veterans who fought for America and sold their IOUs to speculators were in fact showing a lack of faith in America, whereas speculators who bought the IOUs had bet on America's Future and should be rewarded.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

I submit that Ron Chernow has one of the darkest, most evil brains in America.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, he kind of stole the moral high ground. Can you imagine mention writing that and then ending up in your book?

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

And someone knock. First of all, the editor not going. Hey, Ron, so this thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

This really undermines you as a human being.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think we could sneak it in, though. I think we could sneak it in.

[Dave Anthony]

No, it makes you look like a. Like. Like a poison, like a human stain.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here's the problem, okay. When the veterans come to the VA or anything, the patriotism's gone. What? Well, they just keep asking for handouts.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, they fought for the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. Awesome. That they did that.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. I mean, they put their lives on

[Gareth Reynolds]

the line

[Dave Anthony]

and they don't get money. So they're.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They got an iou.

[Dave Anthony]

But you can't eat off an iou.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, agree to disagree. I've eaten off of a lot of IOUs. I bought a ton of them and I made a shitload of money off of recently. But I. I think the. The thing that I'm trying to say is that they're very whiny and. Hold on. And the speculators, the bankers, they're the ones who are like, hey, I'm into this.

[Advertiser/Host]

And.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Are they doing it because they're getting so much? Maybe. I don't know. I'm not sure. I just know that patriots eat and veterans chirp.

[Dave Anthony]

As your publisher.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm gonna shoot you in the face.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Alexander Hamilton. Wow. What a piece of.

[Dave Anthony]

Isn't that absolutely, like the. The level of just. Piece of. You have to be. Because he had to think about this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, it is actually come up with this. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, you don't riff, you evil. It gets diagrammed. He had to, like, kind of come up there with his little.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

His little word salad and be like, how do I. Moral high grounds. Important. He stole the moral high ground.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean. So Alexander responded to Madison's concerns about the veterans getting money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

By calling him, quote, womanish.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boom. Later. See you around, baby. Nice try.

[Dave Anthony]

Their friendship was over.

[Advertiser/Host]

Over.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I guess I'd listen to you if you weren't ladylike.

[Dave Anthony]

They had. They had been very close friends, recently seen giggling together as they chased a pet monkey around a neighbor's yard.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All right, I'm out of here. I'm out of here. What are you talking about? What I said. Am I supposed to dislike these guys now? You can't get me to dislike them after they're muggy monkey giggling. They're chasing.

[Dave Anthony]

They were also sometimes seen out on the street with Alexander carrying Madison on his back.

[Gareth Reynolds]

List. Fun, but you're not going to beat the monkey fun.

[Dave Anthony]

No, you're not. But Madison ended up funding the proposal and Alexander's pan plan passed quickly in the house.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Good, good, good, good.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

One thing that I love about summer is, is how easy everything feels, man. The days are take me there. More relaxed. I, I find myself reaching for the. The same comfortable. Yeah, I said it. Linens, buddy. Linens. And that's why I'm reaching for quints, babe. Quints, well made essentials.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Naturally become those everyday staples you're gonna, you're gonna use all season long. And that's what I doing. I'm. I got quints pants on right now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We, we love quints. I, I wear quints constantly. I'm wearing quints right now. Not a joke. Top layer quints, babe.

[Dave Anthony]

Gotta be honest. Didn't sound like a joke.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It could be good. My legs.

[Dave Anthony]

My wife loves quints. When the, when the first quints package came, she's like, that's my brand.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I love Dave's wife. So I mean we're talking about some good stuff here. But no, Quint's really is the best. They do a bunch. They're also a great company. They ethically source things. They work with smaller businesses so that the savings gets passed along to you. And they look good. They look 100% linen pants. They look good. They got looks for spring. I, you know, I, I don't know if other companies did that, but I found out about it with quints and I love. I got a new shirt with a collar, Dave that they sold to me on the DL buddy. It's the greatest.

[Dave Anthony]

So we're quints. We're quints. Ehrmans. So make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to Quince.com Dalup for free shipping on your order. And 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Dollop for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Dollop yeah.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

If you build things online, you know the stack can get messy fast docs in one place, project tracking somewhere else, AI tools scattered everywhere. That's why I've been spending more time in Notion lately. It's become the one workspace where I can actually organize ideas, collaborate with people and now build on top of it too. Notion just launched their new developer platform, and it opens up a ton of possibilities for builders, startups and teams. You can create integrations, connect workflows, build AI powered experiences, and customize Notion in ways that fit how you actually work. What I like is that it doesn't feel overly technical or locked behind enterprise complexity. I was recently experimenting with automating some recurring workflow tasks and it was surprisingly easy to get something functional up and running without rebuilding my entire system from scratch. That's the sweet spot. Whether you're building internal tools, AI agents, automations, or entirely new products, the Notion developer platform gives you a flexible foundation to work from. Learn more about Notion's developer platform today at notion.com&amp that's all lowercase letters notion.com amp a m p to try Notion's developer platform today notion.com amp this is

[Advertiser/Host]

a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naula. When his son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe to pay for medical expenses.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It was 5k to pay the bill for my son and and I need only 22 hours. It was amazing. People really trust on GoFundMe.

[Advertiser/Host]

How did Juan raise $5,000 in less than a day? He posted a short video on GoFundMe telling his story in 30 seconds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

30 seconds. Be specific, be quick and tell what are you gonna be using the funds for. I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money. But you shouldn't be nervous. Sometimes it's just you just have to do it and see the results. We were able to save my son's life thanks to gofundme that we still have my son with us.

[Advertiser/Host]

Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this message reflects one person's experience. My name is Shannon Maldonado. I'm the founder of Yaoi, a gift shop. From the lens of artists and handmade objects, I chose Shopify because when I was testing other their platforms it was definitely one of the most user friendly. It was important to me to think about where we would be in the future. All of the tools for reading your sales, like planning inventory, they're just right there on your dashboard. For anyone starting a small business, the biggest thing I can tell you it doesn't have to be perfect. Shopify can help you build upon it. Start your free trial on shopify.com now.

[Dave Anthony]

The assumption Pan had plan had problems and Madison led the opposition. Alexander was losing his shit sure America would not survive if it didn't happen. He became almost fanatical. He made nightly visits to congressmen's homes to argue for his plan, offering, quote, promises compromising sacrifices and threats. He sent lobbyists from Treasury. One walked around Congress annoying reps, telling them that he didn't even. He didn't even know that he found. Oh, sorry. One friend walked around Congress annoying reps, telling those he didn't even know that he found Alexander, quote, damn sure sharp.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's sharp. You seen this guy?

[Dave Anthony]

Smart fella, smart guy, Damn sharp. Whenever he walks by, I'm like, smart

[Gareth Reynolds]

guy's on it guy.

[Dave Anthony]

You assume chase a monkey.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That guy's up. I have. It is very fun.

[Dave Anthony]

Few politicians were.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

It's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's kind of. Hank Paulsonish.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, yeah, please, please. Fellow politicians were either devoted to him or hated him. Some saw him as arrogant. They didn't think a cabinet member should try to much sway over Congress and that he was acting too much like a British politician. Adams called, called him insolent and said one sip of wine made him silly and led to bragging about his accomplishments like, quote, a young girl about her brilliance and trinkets.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Boy, I'll tell you what. As much as they're trying to bury the lead on a lot of stuff, the hatred for women is really out there embraced by. It's a bipartisan affair.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander. Alexander almost dueled with a congressman who called him a liar on the House floor. And friends intervened to stop it. So the very powerful colony of Virginia hated his plan to assume states debts as it would add 2 million to their own debt.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

In April, the assumption plan was voted down again and the House voted to stop debating it. So it looks like it's dead.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right now.

[Dave Anthony]

The location of the Capitol is being debated. It's temporarily in New York where Alexander obviously wants it to stay. But putting the capital on the Potomac river is what Virginians Madison and Jefferson want. They thought a northern capital would cater to the merchant and banking class instead of the rural constituents. So the battle for where the capital is is crazy. It's really ugly. The debates were so bad that Congress would adjourn each day without getting anything done. They were, quote, too out of temper to do business together. Together.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, it's different to now. They just don't do it for other reasons.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they just do it for the bank's emergency.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think that's so funny too. And I like right now with the Supreme Court how they're searing all these cases and all These rulings because they have to go on their summer vacation. I mean it is so. I cannot believe sometimes you hear that come out where it's just like. Because right before the Congress's vacation or they're re. And you're just like.

[Dave Anthony]

What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You don't. I wouldn't be telling people that. That's still.

[Dave Anthony]

It's supposed to be so they can go meet with constituents.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But they don't. But they don't. No. They go on vacation, they avoid meeting with constituents. But the Supreme Court gets a summer break. Yeah. Tired.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, they're all so old.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I know, but even then it's like. It's so crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, you know, Kavanaugh is just like, I'm gonna wear a sombrero and do titty shots.

[Dave Anthony]

So Jefferson and Madison and Alexander have a private dinner on June 20, 1790.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How bad are women?

[Dave Anthony]

They're terrible.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How great are slaves? Great.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander's plan. So it's back to the assumption shit. Which it looked dead. So Alexander's plan for state Depp's assumption had been rejected by Congress five times now. So he's in a panic and no one really knows what happened at the depth dinner. Jefferson later said he was tricked by Hamilton. The Virginians apparently agreed to deliver votes of Alexander convincing Pennsylvania congressman to allow the Capitol to be on the Potomac instead of in Philadelphia. So if. If it's not decided, the dinner it most probably set in motion that. But soon after Washington, who's also a Virginian, pushes reps to go along and that's huge. In July of 1790, Congress passes Alexander's assumption bill and the plan to have the Capitol in D.C. his entire financial plan had come to fruition.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So they. So winners win.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dude.

[Dave Anthony]

It was two guys who were supposed to be, you know, a little more for the people selling out the people to get the capital on their sweet little river area.

[Advertiser/Host]

Area.

[Dave Anthony]

It's cool. The whole thing is just horse training for people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And it was dead.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It looked.

[Dave Anthony]

The assumption thing looked dead. Like it was never gonna happen. So the government relocates. So did he really care about the Whatever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

No. So the government relocates to Philadelphia temporarily. And Alexander's not done the non rich. He taxes every gallon of whiskey made in the US to make up a government. Government shortfall. What else are you going to tax?

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

Land.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I mean like truly one. Yeah, exactly. I mean it's like the. The. Okay, so you totally screw us and then the thing that helps us forget that you screw us a little bit. You.

[Dave Anthony]

So people Are pissed. Especially Philadelphia politicians who. Who thought taxing their farmers would lead to a rebellion.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Cute.

[Dave Anthony]

So the tax is of course supported by the wealthy because they don't want a land tax. Washington supports it. A senator, quote, Mr. Hamilton is an all powerful. Mr. Hamilton is all powerful and fails in nothing he attempts. Now, one other thing Alexander wants is a central bank and managed by private citizens, of course.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's. He must have been like, I can't believe this is happening.

[Dave Anthony]

Did everything, literally everything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

It would be where federal funds were deposited. It. It would issue money, stimulate the economy and loan money to the government and give credit to private borrowers.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just crazy. Really, like, it's just crazy. It's like even like the idea is just, let's have a country club.

[Dave Anthony]

A senator called it a, quote, aristocratic

[Gareth Reynolds]

engine in a good way. Or what was that? Was that guy like, that's awesome, or was he like, this is so.

[Dave Anthony]

A lot of banks were seen as tools of the rich to swindle the poor at this time. Imagine, imagine, imagine that. Madison called the idea unconstitutional. Alexander complained that people were prejudiced against.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, I wanted to make it constitutional, but you guys wouldn't shut the fuck up. What'd you say? Sorry.

[Dave Anthony]

Alexander complained that people were prejudiced against banks. How'd she use the word prejudice?

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's why it's so great that Citizens United has finally put us on a level playing field. Oh, my God. That is one of those things where even now the media will reach out and be like, well, Jamie Dimon has a prediction. It's like, you think I care what Jamie Dimon is?

[Dave Anthony]

That's crazy. He said it was essential for prosperity and said if something's not expressly prohibited by the Constitution, it should be seen as an implied power of government. Government. So the bank issue turned Jefferson and Alexander into bitter enemies. One historian says they became obsessed with one another from then on. Jefferson worried a central bank would give the executive branch a dangerous amount of power and lead to a new moneyed class rising up to push down those who made their living off the land.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, how fucking bad do you have to be for Jefferson to be like, you have some. Concerning.

[Dave Anthony]

What the fuck, you guys. Jefferson's famous view that, quote, the government is best which governs least was the opposite of what Alexander was fighting for, which he called, quote, un excessive concern for the liberty of public men. It was approved by legislators, but Jefferson held out hope that Washington would veto it. He called the president, quote, an anchor of safety. Washington asked Alexander Jefferson to each write out their opinions on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, for football. What the. What are you doing?

[Dave Anthony]

You ready for a book? Have you read the Stand?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

Jefferson. Jefferson rushes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I call it Lonesome Dove.

[Dave Anthony]

Jefferson rushes it and writes a succinct memorandum in a few hours. It said the government had no authority to establish a national bank and that allowing Congress this authority party gave them license to do whatever they wanted.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hamilton, why does yours start off with. I bet you're wondering how I ended up.

[Dave Anthony]

Washington gave the. That. Jefferson's report to Alexander, who then went for. Went and wrote for a week, cranking out a report 10 times longer. Some of it is in Eliza's handwriting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, Christ.

[Dave Anthony]

Because he was just churning it out. Come on. Go, woman.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My handwriting.

[Dave Anthony]

Washington signed the first bank of the United States into existence on February 25, 1791. The acceptance of Alexander's interpretation of the Constitution's implied powers has influenced the way politicians have used it ever since. A hundred years later, a politician called Alexander's doctrine of implied powers, quote, quote, the most form, formidable weapon in the armory of the Constitution, capable of conferring on the federal government powers of almost any extent. And that's the end of part two.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What a.

[Dave Anthony]

And that's what. Like, when you hear about the Federalist Society, when you hear about SCOTUS and all those guys, they're this, they're that. That's what Scalia was. They're all these people. The Federalist Society has been pushing all their judges everywhere and believe this shit. And this is. I'm sorry, it's crazy fringe extremist shit. It just is. So this country is ruled as much as they want to be like socialists or extremists. No, the extremists are the guys in power doing everything. They're the fucking extremists. Everyone else is just like, hey, can I just live and hang out?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I think that's sort of the thing, right? It's like the. Like. There is obviously like a very. An argument with a lot of teeth and a lot of people who are pushing for it and fighting for it more and more of the greater good, but that is such a more nebulous concept than. I just want to profit and totally. You know, it's like kind of an easier.

[Dave Anthony]

I just want to make money any way possible. We'll always.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is. Yeah, that's like trying to punch water.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, because.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Because it could find. It'll keep finding.

[Dave Anthony]

It'll find the way to make the money and then it destroys something. And by the time you realize it. They walk over the money and you're like, like wait.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, and if you look at what's happening in like here and the uk, you know, they are clearly very concerned about the people being able to communicate to each other in a new way. And now they are trying. Now they're cracking down on the ability to convince each other.

[Dave Anthony]

It's very funny.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It is funny.

[Dave Anthony]

It's very funny for me to watch left just be like, no, I think we do need to take care of that. The kids. Have you not read history? They, they don't give a about the kids. It's got nothing to do with the kids. Kids are going to be able to get porn and whatever else they want that nobody. That's nobody gives a about that. Absolutely nobody making those laws gives. It's not about that. It's about you and I putting our IDs in and then watching and getting all that information and knowing everything we're doing. That's all it's about.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep. Continued more and more but shout out to Hamilton Friend of show Hemi written

[Dave Anthony]

by Brittany Cohen Brown Sources Jefferson and Hamilton the Rivalry that Forged a Nation by John Frilling Radical Hamilton. Economic Lessons From a Misunderstood Founder by Christian Parenti the Price of Greatness, Alexander Hamilton James Madison and the Creation of American Oligarchy by Jay Cost the Whiskey Rebellion, George Washington Alexander Hamilton and the Frontier Rebels who Changed America's New Found Sovereignty by William Hogland Not A Nation of Immigrants Settler Colonialism, White Supremacy and A History of Erasure and Exclusion by Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz Hamilton's Curse, How Jefferson's Arch Enemy Betrayed the American revolution by Thomas DeLorenzo Alexander Hamilton by Ron Chernow the Hamilton Scheme An Epic Tale of Money and Power in the American Founding by William Hogland. It's in two ways. Some sometimes Chesnam. Here is Hoagland and other times Hogland. So I'll look that up. Fallen Founder the Life of Aaron Burr by Nancy Eisenberg One Nation Under Debt Hamilton, Jefferson and the History of what We Owe by Robert Wright Duel Alexander Hamilton William Burr and the Future of America by Thomas Fleming An Odious Immoral Thing by Jesse Sir Philippe Schuyler Mansion State Historic Site that Time When Alexander Hamilton Almost Dueled James Monroe Smithsonian Magazine Online Alexander Hamilton Enslaver question? New York Times the Pistol that Killed a Founding Father the New York New York Historical Society.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'll fellate that gun.

[Dave Anthony]

And various primary sources available on founders.archives.gov so he's a real piece of shit. And we're gonna get into more of a piece of shit. He was. He's so fucking Trumpian. I mean, he's like a smart guy Trump.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's redundant. That guy's a smart guy.

[Dave Anthony]

No, you're right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's figured out how to make a pool blue for a day and a

[Dave Anthony]

half and kill ducks. If you don't know how to make a pool kill ducks.

[Guest/Additional Speaker]

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[Dave Anthony]

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[Dave Anthony]

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[Advertiser/Host]

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