744 - The Oneida Cult - live

Summary

The Dollop Episode 744 – The Oneida Cult (Live)

Overview

In this live episode of The Dollop, comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds tackle the bizarre and fascinating history of the Oneida Community, a 19th-century religious cult/commune that blended perfectionist Christianity, polyamory, and radical social structure—and eventually became a giant silverware company. True to Dollop form, the episode balances deep historical research with wild tangents, relentless roast-style banter, and biting sarcasm, giving listeners an entertaining yet comprehensive picture of American utopian weirdness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of John Humphrey Noyes (03:15 - 11:55)

• John Humphrey Noyes was born in 1811 Vermont into a privileged, politically connected and deeply religious family. His mother, Polly, was obsessed with religion and pushed it hard onto her children.

• As a child, Noyes was introspective and prone to “thinking,” which the hosts riff on:
  “Mom, can I go to bed early to think? Oh, whoa. There's so many thinks right now.” – Gareth [05:36]

• Despite being shy and considering himself unattractive, he worked through law school, but was wracked by sexual frustration and existential confusion.

2. Religious Awakening & Perfectionism (11:55 - 19:55)

• Noyes attended a revival meeting led by Charles Finney intending to pick up women, but ended up religiously “converted.”
  “Everyone goes to church to get laid. And then it’s like, I’m actually a Christian.” – Gareth [11:14]
• Got swept up in the “Second Great Awakening,” and discovered “perfectionism,” the belief humans can be spiritually and physically perfect.
• Concluded not only was he perfect, but that Jesus’s second coming had already happened, meaning any true Christian could now live free of sin.
• Yale Divinity expelled him for heresy:
  “They pulled his license to preach and they expelled him.” – Dave [20:26]

3. From Outcast to Cult Leader (21:30 - 29:09)

• As a wanderer and preacher, Noyes starts devising radical new ideas. After heartbreak over a lost love, invents “spiritual spouses” and polygamy as a divine principle:
  “The idea was traditional marriage made everyone the, quote, selfish possessions of one another, which did not give them the ability to love all men and women equally.” – Dave [27:11]

• After publication of these beliefs, he loses support, goes into debt, but builds a small core of followers in Vermont eager for utopian community and sexual freedom.

4. Oneida: Bible Communism and Communal Life (30:45 - 50:03)

• Noyes marries Harriet Holton, an heiress whose money funds the cult (31:16).

• They establish a communal society in Vermont, later moving to a tract of land at Oneida, NY, after arrest for fornication and legal trouble. Community swells to almost 100, living collectively.

• “John called it Bible communism.” – Dave [30:52]

• “Wow. I can’t even fucking...This has to be the origin of the glory hole.” – Gareth [30:52]

• The group pools resources, builds a three-story Mansion House, and begins businesses ranging from animal traps to canned goods, always seeking to support the commune's economic survival.

5. Complex Marriage & Sexual Practices (36:41 - 59:08)

• Launches “complex marriage:” all adult members are “married” to each other. Noyes extends the system (sometimes including his own sisters and their husbands—no evidence of incest, but, as Gareth jokes, “The couple you invite in: your own sister... weird party.” [39:49])

• Children as Community Property: Children lived in dedicated houses away from biological parents, who were forbidden to show “sticky love” (excessive attachment) to their kids [53:03].

• Radical Sex Doctrine: Upon puberty, teens were assigned to elder partners to “learn the holy pleasures of sex.” Pubescent boys went with postmenopausal women, and all men were forbidden to orgasm (i.e., no ejaculation)—allegedly to prevent pregnancy and optimize women’s pleasure.

  • “In Oneida, the man was not to orgasm at all.” – Dave [57:23]
  • “Can we change our name to blue balls community?” – Gareth [58:26]

• Women had (for the era) unprecedented rights: equal participation in work, education, short hair, refusal of corsets. Even the birth of children was regulated by committee, striving for a “spiritual eugenics” project to breed near-immortals:
  “It wasn’t the classic eugenics ... but to breed, hoping the holiest among them would give birth to a race of immortals, which John called the Stirpicults.” – Dave [65:09]

6. People & Offshoots: Charles Guiteau & Others (67:40 - 75:13)

• Charles Guiteau (future assassin of President Garfield) briefly lived at Oneida but was viewed as too odd for even them (71:04).
  • “He also did not like doing menial labor and wasn't into free love because absolutely no one would fuck him at the Community.” – Dave [70:19]
• Community business experiments included animal traps, silverware, mills, Turkish bath, etc. (76:05).
• Internal governance included “mutual criticism,” where members would harshly critique each other's behavior, sometimes children:
  • “Children were criticized as well. Hey, you walk funny, you little—That is an eight month old baby.” [80:08]

7. Collapse, Transformation & Legacy (83:01 - 91:56)

• As Oneida aged and financial stress increased, dissent grew, especially after Noyes fled to Canada. Younger membership wanted capitalism, democracy, and monogamy.
• The “complex marriage” system ended in 1879, with the group eventually dissolving as a religious commune and reforming as Oneida Community Limited—a corporate manufacturer of silverware (88:01).
• “The company took off. They got in celebrity endorsements like Princess Margareth of Denmark ... They were the largest seller of silverware in the United States in the middle of the 1900s.” – Dave [90:13]
• “It is so fucking hysterical. I cannot believe silverware they sell at Target... started from men not being able to have orgasms and silver salacious partner swapping.” – Gareth [90:40]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On going to church for sex:
  “Everyone goes to church to get laid. And then it's like, I'm actually a Christian.” – Gareth [11:14]
• On Noyes' perfection:
  “Naturally, he concluded that he was already perfect and had achieved complete holiness on earth.” – Dave [15:07]
• On 'complex marriage':
  “So, wait a minute, if I'm Christian, I can do whatever the fuck I want!” – Gareth [19:20]
• On sexual practices:
  “Can we change our name to blue balls community?” – Gareth [58:26]
• On Oneida silverware's legacy:
  “I feel like I have an Oneida fork somewhere. ... This was made from the sweat and non-semen of generations of men petitioning for a child while women were happily orgasming.” – Gareth [82:21, paraphrased]
• On community collapse:
  “Now that I’m not around, everyone should really stop fucking.” – Gareth (as Noyes) [87:39]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Noyes’s early life, thinking kid banter: [03:15 – 07:17]
• Religious conversions, perfectionism, heresy charges: [11:55 – 20:26]
• Polygamy, spiritual spouses, cult founding: [26:32 – 29:09]
• Communal economics, Mansion House, ‘Bible communism’: [34:55 – 50:03]
• Sex rituals, child rearing, ‘sticky love’, suppression of parental bonds: [51:25 – 54:00]
• Sexual initiation of kids/adolescents: [54:52 – 59:08]
• “Stirpicults” and eugenic ambitions: [65:09 – 66:08]
• Collapse, dissolution, formation of Oneida Ltd.: [88:01 – 91:04]
• Oneida silverware’s surprising afterlife: [91:04 – 91:56]

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Tone, Style, and Language

The episode is packed with rapid-fire banter, characters, running gags, and relentless undercutting of historical pseudoseriousness with modern commentary. While often irreverent and absurdist, Dave and Gareth keep the historical facts clear. Gareth’s recurring bits (e.g., “Can we change our name to blue balls community?” [58:26]) and Dave’s dry explanations strike a balance between comedic chaos and informative storytelling. At several points, both hosts marvel at how a wild, sex-obsessed cult could become America’s best-known silverware brand.

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Takeaways

• The Oneida Community was not just a bizarre sexual cult, but tried to create an egalitarian, communal utopia—albeit with many practices today that would be considered deeply problematic or abusive.
• Its legacy (quite literally, the spoons in America’s drawers) is a surreal testament to the unpredictable fate of utopian experiments in the U.S.
• As Gareth quips: “It is so fucking hysterical. I cannot believe silverware they sell at Target... started from men not being able to have orgasms and silver salacious partner swapping.” [90:40]

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Sources cited include collectorsweekly.com, blueoceanthinking.com, crime reads, theranker.com, and more [92:03].

Transcript

[A]

Giveitupfilm.com is where you can go to see my movie, Give it Up. That will be on tour in August across the country. GiveItUpFilm.com we're coming to select theaters for one screening. The director and I will be doing a Q and a after. So July 28, you can go to North Hollywood, California at Regal Cinema. August 10, you can go to San Diego and see the movie. August 13th is Denver. August 20th is Chicago. August 23rd is New York City. August 24th. Fourth is Philly. August 25th is Raleigh. August 26th, Atlanta. August 27th, Nashville. We might add a couple more, but this might be your only chance to see it on the big screen. So go to giveitupfilm.com the director and I will be doing a Q A after. It's a whole event. There'll be posters, there'll be. Everybody's gonna win a bunch of money. It's gonna be awesome. So if you want to see my movie, give it up. Which really is great. Go to giveitupfilm.com I will be at all of these screenings. We're gonna make a special announcement and we're gonna take it from Reddit because, look, this is a fun. We like to have fun.

[B]

No, we don't.

[A]

Okay. This is from last night. This is. Someone posted this on the dialup subreddit Live show tip. Shut the fuck up. A drunk person at the show tonight was so damn annoying. Please don't get so drunk that you can't read the room. And Gareth has to explicitly tell you to stop exclaiming things. The guys don't. Your fellow audience members don't like it. They aren't playing a show to just you shut the fuck up. So we're happy you're here, but, yeah, just. Just. Just shut up. Yeah, the person last night wasn't even doing anything other than going like, whoa. Really? And that's just.

[B]

So that's your job.

[A]

That's my role. Don't say that's crazy. Don't do accents. Don't go, whoa. Really? That's what I do. So don't do that, but shut the fuck up. That's the move. And also so Dave's a Trump.

[B]

Recommended that you go ahead. What'd you say?

[A]

I said, go ahead. Dave's Maga. Dark Maga. Go Dark Maga. Dave's White Maga.

[B]

They're all white Maga.

[A]

I know. Imagine like that. But we're White Maga.

[B]

And I'm sorry to all of our Maga fans.

[A]

You're listening to the Dollop.

[B]

This is an American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a creepy

[A]

doll head keeper, Gareth Reynolds, who loves his babies and has no idea what the topic is going to be about.

[B]

Wah.

[A]

Now look, it feels like we've never had an audience more distant than this one. And that's okay.

[B]

They're all from Buffalo, So they're mad. September 3rd, 1811. John humphrey noyes was born.

[A]

We've got a real power top over there.

[B]

What's weird is that guy does not know who this is.

[A]

He's just happy the show started.

[B]

Finally, John Humphrey Noyes was born to John and Polly Noyes in Badaloo, Vermont. They had very comfortable lives. John was a minister, teacher, businessman, and a member of the U.S. house House of Representatives.

[A]

Awesome. Hell yeah.

[B]

Polly was the aunt of future U.S. president Rutherford Hayes.

[A]

Oh, Rutherford B. Hayes. O.B. hayes. Isn't that what they used to say for him back then? That's the first joke. And OB Hayes.

[B]

Paulie was super religious and shoved that into her kids. John Humphrey was the fourth of nine kids. What? That's how religion is. You shove it in there.

[A]

Could have used a much different action. Action verbs have eluded you.

[B]

Smash it in them.

[A]

We took. We took. It's fine. We took.

[B]

Is that going to be a laugh? Because that's.

[A]

Look, look, look. Awesome. It's an awesome laugh. It sounds like a mouse jumped. And I'll tell you, we can't keep talking about it. It's an awesome laugh and we encourage you to laugh. But it, like a mouse, freaks out when you laugh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Opie Hayes,

[B]

Polly was also super religious. Shoved that into her kids. Now, John Humphrey was the fourth of nine kids.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

John Humphrey was born on the day that his dad was elected to the state legislature.

[A]

That's awesome. That's awesome.

[B]

He was a bit of a weirdo, huh? Okay, that's my description because he, quote, was always fond of thinking. He used to say that he would go to bed early because he wanted to think.

[A]

My opposite.

[B]

Normal kid.

[A]

Yeah. Just. Well, I'm going to go to the bunk beds and fathom for a while. He's six. He loves to think. If you're bragging about thinking or if it's like you have a real fondness for it, it's probably. You're not the sharpest. Well, I'm off to go. Think. I'll be thinking for a while. Mom, can I go to bed early to think? Oh, whoa. There's so many thinks right now. Oh, my God. Whoa.

[B]

Honey, sleep. You've been thinking for six hours now.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

It's 2am I know.

[A]

I just won't stop. And then, even when I close my eyes, I have weird things. Did I tell you about any of those? It's okay. I was swimming underwater so far that I couldn't breathe. And then I tried real hard and I could breathe. And then I woke up and I had a whole bunch of new things to think about. Like, what was that thinking that happened back there? And was I in charge of it or was someone else in charge? All that thinking. Oh, I got a lot of thinking to do. I don't think I can leave bed today. Think I could leave bed today. That's a whole new line of thinking. Outside of the thoughts. Well, I been thinking. What?

[B]

I just don't want to be your parent anymore. I just don't want to have a child. I want there to be a void where you are.

[A]

A void? God damn it. Whoa.

[B]

Oh, God damn it.

[A]

That's just like a big space.

[B]

Jesus Christ.

[A]

That goes on and on and on.

[B]

Hey, think about this.

[A]

Well, I've been thinking. Whoa. I could see your thoughts on the wall. All the thoughts inside your head splattered for me to collect and process in my hands. Well, I've been thinking.

[B]

Don't. There was a little.

[A]

Who at their own show says no to applause?

[B]

I don't want people to encourage you.

[A]

There was a very strange dynamic, but I want that. One guy's the player and the other's the ref. That makes no sense.

[B]

They can enjoy it, but just not too much.

[A]

They are allowed to enjoy it. They can get out of hand.

[B]

You're like the thinking kid.

[A]

I'm creating a great character.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

And let me tell you. Yeah.

[B]

No, there's no.

[A]

Oh, yeah. No. Oh, yeah. You know, let me tell you something. If you. What if I just started bleeding?

[B]

So he goes to school in Vermont and then Massachusetts, and in 1822, he went to Battleboro Borough Academy.

[A]

Battleboro Academy.

[B]

It's still there. They still. I'm sure it's now a pretentious rich kid school. Oh, you went to Battleboro.

[A]

You're so negative on the rich.

[B]

What?

[A]

It's just crazy.

[B]

Wait, wait. What?

[A]

You're so negative on the rich.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't get why. Look around, idiot.

[B]

String them up from the rafters. You guys know we can't look. We can't tax them.

[A]

That's right. Job creators.

[B]

As a teen, he was painfully shy around girls, believing his red hair and freckles made him ugly.

[A]

You fight through that face in 18, just grab the curtain.

[B]

In 1826, he went to Dartmouth, graduating in 1830. Then he studied law in his brother in law's office in New Hampshire. He lamented his feelings of sexual frustration.

[A]

Man, there's a lot of thinking still.

[B]

By 20, he was a Yankee dandy.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

Like a. Like a fancy Yankee boy.

[A]

What does that mean? You don't even know what it means?

[B]

No, he's. You know what a dandy is?

[A]

Well, so he's a fancy Yankee dandy.

[B]

Yeah, he's a dandy.

[A]

Are you allowed to say that?

[B]

I mean, I just did. And no, no one's tried to stop me.

[A]

Wow, look at you. Comedy's back.

[B]

Saying he was going, quote, to indulge the lust of the eye and the pride of life for the present.

[A]

One more time. Because that's a very perverted. That is an Epstein email.

[B]

To indulge the lust of the eye and the pride of life for the present.

[A]

Okay, so he's really going. He's gonna fuck everything.

[B]

That's what I took from that. Yeah. He's gonna bang his way through. Yeah, I guess. New Hampshire.

[A]

The Dartmouth area.

[B]

The Dartmouth area.

[A]

The greater Dartmouth area. Dart, meat, mouth. It's okay. Hang in there, sweetie.

[B]

But he finally gave into his mother's badgering about church and went to a tent revival service by famous preacher Charles Finney. Now, while he actually went to the revival to pick up on ladies, he ended up converting.

[A]

That's classic. How could you not, man? Everyone goes to church to get laid. And then it's like, I'm actually a Christian.

[B]

Okay. It was not uncommon to go to revival to hook up.

[A]

It wasn't?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The traveling tent sermons let tight ass middle class people sob and yell and tremble and moan and dance. And then it was not uncommon for them to get fired up and hook up. After John was one of thousands swept up in God fever taking over the northeast called the Second Great Awakening. He didn't get laid there, but our 20 year old virgin found he could channel his erotic energy into Christianity.

[A]

Crazy. Crazy. What a way to do it. What the fuck?

[B]

That is how you do it.

[A]

Jesus Christ. I mean, sorry. No, that's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. All right. This is gonna be how I. Yes. Yes. Now I will teach who any difference

[B]

between this and what?

[A]

Erica. Erica Kirk, stop it. You know, if you say her name three times, she appears. Careful now.

[B]

He bailed on law to become a preacher. And John went to Andover Theological Seminary in Massachusetts. He wanted to work as a missionary and joined a society called the Brethren, which met to examine and support each other's faith with very honest criticism.

[A]

That's crazy. We'll get to that. Did you say bread ridden?

[B]

Brethren?

[A]

Brethren. Oh, I thought he said bread ridden. Eat a loaf of bread. You're like, I can't get out of bed. I'm bread ridden. I ate too much sourdough. I'm bread ridden. Don't say another word. Let me cook. Go.

[B]

You just want it to be breadwinned.

[A]

Very much so. Well, I was gonna crowbar the bit in either way, but it would have been helpful.

[B]

Tell me you said bread ridden.

[A]

Tell me you said bread ridden. No, you didn't. Here's the joke anyway. And then explain to me the. The. The thrust of what he's doing.

[B]

They get together and they examine and support each other their faith with honest criticism.

[A]

Right, okay. So they criticize each other's faith. Yeah, Right. Okay.

[B]

But a want of spirituality at Annaber had him switch to Yale divinity school in 1832, where he could spend more time on Bible study.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's why I switched colleges.

[A]

Yeah, that shows.

[B]

Oh, man. More Bible, please.

[A]

Yeah, that's what you've always said.

[B]

And while he's there, he got involved in activism and he helped organize one of the first anti slavery societies in the U.S. in New Haven, Connecticut.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Who would have thought that? New Haven. But yeah.

[A]

No, that is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now it's now what?

[B]

Whites.

[A]

New Haven. Now it's newer Haven. No, that's good.

[B]

Yeah, that's good.

[A]

Yeah, we can't.

[B]

Nothing to knock there. No, he adopted perfectionism.

[A]

He adopted perfectionism. Okay, sure.

[B]

Which says that a man has the ability to be spiritually and physically perfect.

[A]

Oh, okay. Right. So aura maxing.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Like clavicle maxing.

[B]

Yeah, Clavicle.

[A]

Yeah, like clavicle. Yeah. That's who I'll picture now.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Well, until I show you a picture of this guy, and then you won't.

[A]

It can be worse than what I've already seen.

[B]

Well,

[A]

it really can't be. Okay.

[B]

Naturally, he concluded that he was already perfect and had achieved complete holiness on earth.

[A]

Look at this.

[B]

The beard is insane.

[A]

The beard?

[B]

Yeah, he's got.

[A]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[B]

He's got like a frame around his head.

[A]

That is crazy. You know, all they were doing was silencing women who the whole time were biting through their tongues. Like, what the fuck are you doing right now? Yeah.

[B]

Jesus Christ. Your facial hair Isn't thin.

[A]

Well, I figured out the best way to show off my head. I'm gonna go for a little tiny Velcro beard around the whole thing. And then I think I'm just gonna wear some cutoff tassels as a tie. Anyway, I'm off to bang everything with a heartbeat. I'm gonna spread these women like the Gospel. I'm so sorry.

[B]

So naturally, he concluded he was already perfect and had achieved complete holiness on earth. And this was not really popular with others at Yale.

[A]

So he's basically like, so I figured out I've.

[B]

I'm awesome.

[A]

I've pious maxed.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. In his second year, he was trying to figure out what the exact date was of the second coming of Jesus.

[A]

That could take a while.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, but that wouldn't make sense. That's a Sunday. This is hard.

[B]

He read the New Testament ten times to figure it out and realized it had already happened.

[A]

All right, let's say that is your mission. Incredible. Didn't need 10 times to realize that it had already happened. Like, even outside of all the obvious shit. But to be like, oh, God, it's so obvious. It was two years ago.

[B]

Have you ever read anything twice?

[A]

Yeah, dude, when I was in fucking school, that was the only way I could participate in class was to read it. I didn't read it twice for pleasure. I literally remember one time in school, like, the teacher was like, all right, so. And then what happened? And I was like, well, that was because he went home for the first time in a while, and she was like, okay, so this is great. So I know Gareth did the reading because he raised his hand to answer, and even though he's wrong, it shows that he did it. And I was just sitting there like, right, Thank you for your compliment. Wait, so as a matter of fact, I read most things twice and still don't get it. Get what?

[B]

He said the second coming of Jesus happened in 70 AD right after the Romans siege and destroyed Jerusalem. This meant. That was a weird. That was a weird time to laugh.

[A]

I think that was a gasp. He did it in the library.

[B]

This meant, quote, mankind was now living in a new age. So this was a whole new chronology of Christ. He became increasingly concerned with salvation from sin and perfection. And this perfectionism mumbo jumbo led him to conclude that anyone who accepted Christ as already having established the kingdom of heaven on earth could live totally free of sin.

[A]

What a fucking little loophole.

[B]

Oh, yeah, we found one.

[A]

So wait a minute. If I'm Christian, I could do Whatever the fuck I want.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

I mean, that's like right before a montage. If I'm Christian, I can do whatever the I want. What? Yeah. Oh.

[B]

In perfect holiness, he declared that he was saved from sin on February 20, 1834. Now this doesn't go well with the higher ups at Yale who tried and convicted him of heresy.

[A]

Yeah. He like put a cigarette out of there for it. He's like, I've accepted the kingdom of Christ. Gonna go bang your wives. Woo. Cartwheels out of the room.

[B]

Woo.

[A]

What's up, teach? Can you hear this? All right, I'll turn it down.

[B]

So they pulled his license to preach and they expelled him.

[A]

License to preach? What? You'll be no more preaching. You're gonna have to go back and take the test again.

[B]

I mean. Yeah. What, you roll into a town. Do you have a license to preach?

[A]

In my other pants.

[B]

We're gonna need to see that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can't just go preaching willy nilly. Not in our town.

[A]

Not gonna be a problem. I have a passport to. Rector.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

I have a. I have a green card to apostolicize.

[B]

That is not a thing.

[A]

I got a visa for him, and

[B]

now that.

[A]

Yes. All right.

[B]

After he was expelled, quote, I was an outcast, yet I rejoiced and leaped for joy. So he's gone.

[A]

It is a great. He's figured out a great system. Yeah.

[B]

He did convert one young woman, Abigail Merwin.

[A]

He converted one person? Yeah. Don't you understand? She was like, okay, that sounds pretty good. We can do whatever we want.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right. There we go. I've been working on a little thing I call 69ing.

[B]

His family begged him to come home, but he decided to live in poverty. A wandering homeless guy trying to convert others. He left Merwin. Abigail. Sure. In New Haven.

[A]

Not the Wizard.

[B]

That's right. In May of 1834. And moved to a crime and disease filled Manhattan neighborhood. And there he hallucinated a passionate encounter with God's spirit and imagined he was besieged by the devil.

[A]

He was besieged by the devil.

[B]

The devil's coming after him.

[A]

Me. So that's acid, not truth.

[B]

Three for three. Three weeks of devil besiegement.

[A]

Where was he?

[B]

He was in. He's in the Manhattan neighborhood.

[A]

He's just in Manhattan. Like, hey, I don't. I'm still here. This besiegement isn't over yet. You are in a lot of trouble.

[B]

I just want to go home.

[A]

You're not going home. You and I are hanging out.

[B]

Why do you sound like the South Park Devil.

[A]

I do not. I do not. That is a complete, completely. That is a different thing. Assuming that anyone with a deep voice is somehow infringing upon a copyright is. That's a. That's up, by the way. That's a sin. That's. I'll be. I'm besieged worse than ever before.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like I really found a little kick.

[A]

You have not. I have not. It's fine. I've heard it before. But whatever. Everything's derivative of. Everything's derivative of everything. Quiet. Be quiet. I'm a completely different version of this. It's not even funny.

[B]

It's kind of funny.

[A]

I'm gonna besiege you worse when you go to bed tonight. Shut up. Do not say that. I could change my voice if you'd rather.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or be a British devil. That's right. You're under a big degree of besiegement.

[B]

That doesn't sound like a degree.

[A]

I agree. It doesn't feel right either. Well, we'll find it. Here's what we'll do. We'll figure it out together. Maybe I'm Russian devil. Ah, that feels better. You are in big trouble. You. Yes, they're all devils. No, that's crap. You can't do that. That is a shame to say that I believe the devil.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

No, you like it too much. No, no. I mean, I could just talk like this.

[B]

Yeah, that's fine.

[A]

All right. Yeah. You're in a lot of trouble. Who am I?

[B]

So for three weeks, he's filthy, lacking sleep and food. He's wandering the streets, warning people Christ's judgment was nigh at the end.

[A]

Like Borat.

[B]

Yes. At the end, he thought he defeated the devil, and his family thought he had completely lost his fucking mind.

[A]

Either way, we should just be. I mean that you celebrate that. Oh, good. Welcome back. Well, I did it. Sorry I've been in Manhattan so long, but I beat the devil's ass. Cool. We were having noodles.

[B]

Don't you think he was just, like, partying and fucking?

[A]

I can't tell. I mean, look, if we're being honest, people who walk the streets and shout about, you know, Jesus, at times you go, hey, good luck on your journey. Not for me. I wish you the best. So he might have been partying. He might have just been, you know, the kind of guy who grew a chinstrap beard around his weird head.

[B]

He said only those who were perfect and free of sin were true Christians. And he traveled to New England preaching, debating, and publishing works. And then he got A new follower.

[A]

A new follower.

[B]

James Boyle. James Boyle.

[A]

James Boyle, Yeah. Oh, my God. The dad from Everybody Loves Raymond.

[B]

Oh, that's Peter Boyle. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I got my. Boyle's mixed up.

[A]

You know, I heard what you did to the devil back in Manhattan, and I love that for you, Peter Boyle. Do we have a picture of James Boyle?

[B]

No. So they started the Perfectionist, a religious paper.

[A]

The band. The ska band.

[B]

Yeah. Now there's not many converts. And he falls in love with Abigail Merwin. That's the original convert that he had. No. John Does.

[A]

Okay. Back with her.

[B]

Now she's not in love with him, and then she gets engaged to someone else.

[A]

Well, that's fucked up.

[B]

And soon after that, he came up with a new thing.

[A]

Now, Dave, this isn't going to be one of those things that's catered specifically to his life. This is going to be an overarching religious. No. What decree.

[B]

It's called spiritual spouses. And that would become.

[A]

Which is a dating app, and that

[B]

would become spiritual polygamy. And the idea was spiritual.

[A]

So the idea is she's. She's. Look, can I guess? She's taken by that guy. Sure. Biblically, they're married, but as far as. And every other way, probably sexually, eventually, she's a free agent.

[B]

You get to fuck,

[A]

she can bang him.

[B]

Spiritual polygamy. The idea was traditional marriage made everyone the, quote, selfish possessions of one another, which did not give them the ability to love all men and women equally.

[A]

Okay. By the way, it feels physical, not spiritual. Feels like quite a physical. It feels like physical polygamy, which I believe is polygamy.

[B]

It's all about the spirit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Connecting spiritually and with God.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

John started Bible school in Vermont and converting the townspeople of Putney.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Are you a Putneyan?

[A]

You live near it. You grew up near it. Okay. It sucks. Sucked. All right, let me. I don't know if you know what wooing at a city means. At a show, it's normally support.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

I've been to it once. It's horrible.

[B]

Woo.

[A]

Putney.

[B]

So some of John's family came around as ideas on marriage became famous. In 1837, in a letter published, all

[A]

the men were like, now, hold on. This spiritual polygamy thing is pretty good.

[B]

Some do this.

[A]

I get to do it, and you shut up about it. How about that, Abigail? And you can't practice it either.

[B]

It was published in Theodore Gates Battle Acts, and he wrote that in a holy community, there is no occasion for shame. Sexual exclusivity, marriage and reason why sexual intercourse should be restrained by law.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And by the way, this is one of those. This is like the Patriot Act. Like, that's a weird. Nah, nah, let me stick to landing. It's like a bunch of language where you're like, well, that could be abused pretty easily. And then 10 years later, you're like, what the fuck? This is terror. What the hell are they doing?

[B]

This is gonna go great. Open sexual relationships could bring them closer to God. A Philadelphia preacher got his hands on the letter and published it in his Christian zine.

[A]

Oh, Chris.

[B]

After this, a bunch of people canceled their subscriptions to John's paper and he went into debt.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But it's not just about sex as you seem to think it is.

[A]

No, it is.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

100%. Listen, without question, it is. I will not be convinced otherwise.

[B]

Ellen Wayland Smith. Quote today. We have had this idea. We Americans were always these ardent capitalists who were gung ho about the free market and individualism. But when the market economy first got going, the idea of competition and struggling against your neighbor to make a living horrified Americans.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Imagine, they couldn't accept that the new model for the economy was going down this pathway towards selflessness. A concept that haunted people.

[A]

Going towards selflessness?

[B]

Yeah, like it being an individual. Like they. They saw themselves as part of a community.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

So they couldn't even The America.

[A]

Now.

[B]

They would be like, what the.

[A]

Yeah. And they'd be like, dude, move. I'm trying to park on that spot. Quit standing there if not trying to fathom, you idiot. Move.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So they push their shopping cart, like, far away from where the carts are supposed to go out of here. Fascism.

[B]

So John incorporated the idea of community that was attractive. And he called it Bible communism.

[A]

Bible communism. Oh, my God. Wow. I can't even fucking. Okay. There's no doubt in my mind. This ends in the invention of the glory hole. This has to be the origin story. Bible communism.

[B]

In 1838, he met and married Harriet Holton. Luckily, she had inherited quite a bit of money and began funding John's new community.

[A]

Oh, boy. You know, it's always that. They always get the influx. It's just like Silicon Valley. It's just a terrible concept. Until some dip is like, I'll give you a million dollars.

[B]

Yeah. She's a VC fund, basically.

[A]

Yeah. She's vc. Yeah. Venture Christianity. No.

[B]

Viet Cong.

[A]

Viet Cong.

[B]

Viet Cong.

[A]

I don't believe that's what it is.

[B]

No, VC means Viet Cong.

[A]

I don't think it does. No, I'm in. Vc. Vc. I'm a venture capitalist in Vietcong.

[B]

Marc Thiessen is like one of our most. Oh, Andersen. Sorry, I said it the wrong.

[A]

Yeah, no, Andreessen.

[B]

Andreessen.

[A]

Yeah, he's great.

[B]

He's one of our top Viet Cong.

[A]

Yeah, he's great. Very good.

[B]

So, Peter Thiel. Viet Cong. They're all Viet Cong.

[A]

It's going to be in a dream scenario. We can send them to Iran and they can be the only boots on the ground.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

Excuse me.

[B]

Oh, my God. Mark.

[A]

Mark died falling out of the helicopter.

[B]

They would have five kids in six years.

[A]

Shit.

[B]

Only one survived. She accepted his polygamy beliefs, but he didn't act on them for years. So there's. Now he's got 31 adults and 14 kids in his little community.

[A]

That's plenty.

[B]

And John called it the Society of Inquiry.

[A]

The Society. Yeah, they're just right there.

[B]

I'm out. Yeah, it just sounds like a roommate here.

[A]

We're just here to ask questions. It's all question based.

[B]

Yeah, I'm out.

[A]

No, no, no. Come here.

[B]

No.

[A]

Look, we're figuring it out together. And that's the whole point of this. Imagine if the question mark was a cul de sac that we could all live in.

[B]

Goodbye.

[A]

Why don't you come in here and figure some stuff out for yourself? Because we're open to figuring it out with you.

[B]

No.

[A]

Something you've questioned your whole life.

[B]

You're about to start a jam pad.

[A]

Something. Something you've questioned your whole life. What would it be?

[B]

Why I'm here.

[A]

Same here, brother. Why are we here? What's the point of all this? Well, we're just putting on a big play for God. Then what's with the rehearsals? Yeah, exactly. No.

[B]

Oh, Jesus.

[A]

No, no, no. I mean, he's here, but listen, let me ask you this.

[B]

No.

[A]

Are you married?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. How's that been? What, is your wife a nine?

[B]

She's hot. Yeah.

[A]

Your wife's hot. Fuck, yeah. That's awesome. What if. No, no, hold on. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to be with my wife?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Do you have money?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, so give me your wife, some of your money and you can live in one of those little barn huts.

[B]

Are you Viet Cong?

[A]

I'm a Venture Kong.

[B]

So most of the people that he invited in were well off. And they all pooled their resources and in. In 1845, they formed a corporation. And Started publishing work like the Perfectionist and Spiritual magazine. And with the invention of electricity, John said Christ's love was an electric fluid that could be passed through words, both written and spoken, and through touch.

[A]

Hey, question in the back. What? You're saying he's electric?

[B]

You can feel my electricity if I touch you.

[A]

Huh?

[B]

Especially if I.

[A]

When do we get into the Bible?

[B]

In your outlets.

[A]

What?

[B]

If I touch you in your outlets or put my cord. My prong.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

To your outlet?

[A]

No.

[B]

And then the electricity no flow. And boy, will my electricity flow.

[A]

What is that doing? That is a. Why? What are we doing that for?

[B]

To get my electricity in you. No, to make a baby.

[A]

What? Well, that was a twist. We've got an electric baby.

[B]

One of God's little babies.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is crazy.

[B]

I think I nailed this. I bet you write this down. I think I got a good one.

[A]

What?

[B]

This was the ultimate way to change up the community's God battery. And that was through sex numbers. That was good.

[A]

You know, there's a reason why nobody's sitting in front of that guy. There probably were two people, and before the show, they're like, let's get the out of here. This guy's got a weird energy. Speaking of weird energy, if members had

[B]

enough electric sex for Jesus, they could achieve immortality on Earth. And then he would always talk about electricity flowing. He always talked about it. In 1846, John acted on open relationship God beliefs, and he courted the wife of George Craigen, who was one of his first converts. That's his first.

[A]

That's the one.

[B]

Extramarital, right? Polygamy.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Situation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then, John, I finished.

[A]

Oh, okay. Well, I'll see you tomorrow. I'm gonna go to the barn and weep for a little while.

[B]

Okay, me too.

[A]

But don't come into the barn when I'm in there weeping.

[B]

Oh, we outside of it, I guess.

[A]

What?

[B]

I'll cry outside the barn.

[A]

Good. Okay, great. All right.

[B]

Love.

[A]

Love you. Love you. Yep. Okay. I didn't say love you. I just got to talk to you about it. Till later. Bye. Gotta go. Hey. Wow, you're getting good.

[B]

Hey, you don't seem okay.

[A]

I'm fine. That was a lovely session. Good stuff. I'm happy with. Yep. Hey, sorry I didn't make it all the way, but, hey, you're really glad we did this.

[B]

My husband. My husband goes a lot longer.

[A]

Oh, I thought it was your husband.

[B]

Like, longer than a minute.

[A]

Aren't I that guy?

[B]

Oh, you are.

[A]

Yeah. That's who I thought I was. Oh, Wait, who are you talking about?

[B]

I thought. Nothing.

[A]

Hold on, let me light a candle.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's me. What did you think was happening?

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

Wait, who are you weeping in the barn after if it's not me?

[B]

The cows.

[A]

What? The cows.

[B]

I just cried about the cows.

[A]

Oh. All right, have a good night. That must have been the best way to go to sleep back in the day. All right, see you tomorrow. Are you done reading? I am. All right, make a wish.

[B]

So then John and his wife swapped with the Craigens. His wife got a little action.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Pineapples upside down. You know what I mean?

[A]

Sure, absolutely.

[B]

They all moved in together then.

[A]

Oh, fucking hell. Yeah, here we go. The first reality show. And then this is the true story.

[B]

And then this complex marriage expanded to include John's two sisters and their husbands.

[A]

What the fuck? Like, okay, it was weird. By the way, my sister's getting involved. How awesome is this party? This hot tub just got two people bigger. Hell yeah. This is great.

[B]

So it's five couples now and tourist sisters. They're all married to each other now.

[A]

And tourists now.

[B]

There's no evidence he had sex with his sister. Yeah, there's no evidence he had sex with his sister, but he was in a complex marriage with his sisters. Doesn't mean you gotta. Them. You can. Their husbands and the husband. And they can.

[A]

This is him saying grace. And I also did not have sex with my sisters. I wouldn't. I could have sex with their husbands and the husbands could have sex with our wives, but not my sisters. I'm in.

[B]

The other 25 members of society did not know about the group marriage.

[A]

So even in this weird compound of this, they're like, we can't tell people how weird we get.

[B]

We'll let it out. So I don't want people to know I'm fucking my sister.

[A]

No, but he isn't.

[B]

No, he's not. I know, but do you. I think he did. I mean, come on. Why? Why is the it's weird couple you invite in your fucking sister?

[A]

Hey, it's a family affair. No, not us though.

[B]

So God wants. Okay, so until John told the new friend about the relationship situation, that's when everyone knew. A few months later, John was arrested for adult grounds fornification. Fornication.

[A]

For cheating.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That was the only thing they could get him on.

[B]

Well, you're not allowed to outside of marriage, so it's illegal at this time.

[A]

I know, but he has a fucking compound.

[B]

He hasn't done anything else. It's all Legal to have a compound.

[A]

Just.

[B]

We're going to have a compound.

[A]

It's like when Prince Andrew went down for. Like, you gave away secrets.

[B]

Is that what he went down for?

[A]

Yes. Yeah. They were like, who gave away. No. Nothing to do with the other stuff.

[B]

No, they were, at least it's better than our country.

[A]

I know, but it's like, they were like, how dare you tell other governments what we're doing? He's like, ah, I lived on an island with teenagers and. Right, but you're going to jail. Loose lips shake ships.

[B]

So he gets out on bail and he flees to New York City. And word came that warrants have been issued for other cult members. And then one of his members bought land on the Oneida Reserve in central New York State.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's so funny. It's not funny. It's so horrendous that we're like, hey, we'll just go to that Native American land. That's. We'll escape our polygamist spread.

[B]

Well, they all fled there. Now there's 87 people living there at the end of 1848. Gareth the dollop is brought to you by Squarespace.

[A]

All right?

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Do not name another one. Move on.

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Why did you bother?

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[A]

Is that Mr. Chugglesworth or whatever?

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Yeah.

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Oh yeah.

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tickety tap. It's tapping away in there. Most guys just sit there and let it fester for way too long.

[A]

Completely agree.

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Sometimes you'll be in a pharmacy line telling someone else in the line, what's going on? And you're like, where am I? What am I doing?

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And then you get to the farm, you get to the pharmacist and they're going, hey, you're not allowed to do that. Here you go. There's gotta be a better way.

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Yeah. And you don't need to do that pharmacy line stuff where you're sort of talking to everybody.

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You're letting people skip you so you could talk to the next feller. Or Philly.

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[A]

Let me ask you this, you ever worn a pharmacist outfit in a pharmacy line?

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Adult is also brought to you by Rocket Money. We're both big, big Rocket Money fans. Before we started working with Rocket Money, we didn't know what it was. And then we got it and we downloaded it and we were like, what? And we were talking about like these things. I had, I had no idea that I had some tricks.

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Whoa. Rocket Money. Rocket Money. Rocket Money. Go ahead and save yourself some Rocket Money. Okay.

[B]

And John decided to get rid of ego and exclusiveness. They had all to live under one roof. Sure. They had carpenters who built a three story building called the Mansion House.

[A]

Oh dear.

[B]

That is a fuck building.

[A]

That is. No walls. Not one wall.

[B]

Just beds.

[A]

Just beds everywhere. When I was in. When I was in Miami, like in my 20s, of course, you go from

[B]

all beds to Miami.

[A]

I went to a club called Bed, where it was like 90% beds and you had to take your shoes off. It closed down within a year because everyone was like, Jesus Christ, this fucking nightmare. Like you'd be trying to get a drink and be like, gosh, I spilled it on the bed. They'd be like, don't you drink? Can you spill on the bed?

[B]

It seems like a real problem.

[A]

It was a real bad idea. And then they opened Club Trampoline. Much better.

[B]

So there were many communal living experiments going on at this time. But Oneida started with real capital. About a hundred thousand. So about 4 million in today's money.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

One member invented the animal trap, which they manufactured and that brought in money. And they kept expanding businesses to keep money coming in. So they changed the name to the Community. It's never a good.

[A]

That's always now the more vague. Yeah, that's like an offshore account.

[B]

And John became more eccentric, and that seems very unlikely. Rules were adapted on his whims. He decided new members needed more indoctrination and had new members live in a house together.

[A]

So he had a new member house.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Right. And the old members were just floating around.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And anyone could grab them.

[B]

Since John wasn't good with emotional attachment. He discouraged it and told them to devote it to the group.

[A]

This is a. Once again, this is a biblical Christian organization. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I just haven't heard the sounds like I haven't heard any of the terms in a while.

[B]

Yeah, this sounds.

[A]

This is how every cult starts. We're gonna build and plant and we're gonna pray. Also we are gonna fuck each other. And dogs out Tuesdays. And we drink and we steal and we live in one house together. And we all sleep in a big sleeping bag with sleeping caps on like the Three Stooges. And we go head the bush. Everybody down the row, guys. It's in the Bible.

[B]

So his belief was that if you showed partiality to any one member, the whole commune would fall apart. So don't get really focused on one. Just everybody. Love everybody equally. It was a sin to show too much affection to your kids.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

My dad did that.

[A]

Not like this, he didn't. Your dad had a drinking problem. This is way different where he's like, yeah, no, I mean, look, your dad. No, I will not have you besmirch the name of him.

[B]

He's a home, a woman on a date, and my mom was cooking dinner for them.

[A]

Okay, well, what do you bring to your own house? A bottle of wine? The guy was a fucking assassin.

[B]

That doesn't even make sense.

[A]

He was the man. Every time I hung out with him, we had a good time.

[B]

Until you killed him.

[A]

I didn't kill him. The bottle did. I was just there cheering him on.

[B]

So parents who did show what he called sticky love towards their own kids.

[A]

Is it possible to come up with a different term that doesn't make me think of fucked lube?

[B]

It's just you're too attached to your own children. You stuck to them. They were barred from seeing their kids until they could prove they didn't care for their children more than the other kids.

[A]

So you had to. It looks like you really like your son more than the other.

[B]

He's my boy.

[A]

Well, that's not okay here.

[B]

What?

[A]

That's not okay here. So you. You can't talk to your son for a little while? Why don't you talk to Gabe's son over there? Show him how much you love him? Because it feels like you love him more than that guy do.

[B]

He's my son again.

[A]

No, he's not your son. They're all your sons. Go talk to Gabe's kid.

[B]

Hey, K. Gabe's kid.

[A]

Wrong. Love him better.

[B]

Hi, Little boy.

[A]

All right, I'm gonna take your wife into the other room. How good is the Bible.

[B]

Giving up sticky love would bring you closer to God, you know that? You told me that once.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All the kids lived in the children's house starting at 18 months up to 12 years old.

[A]

Now that is a fine arrangement. You want babies living in houses with new adolescents, that's smart.

[B]

Yeah, Some parents obviously.

[A]

How's everyone doing in this house that's just for kids and babies? Oh, we had another death. Really? Yeah. Two deaths. Ice cream everywhere.

[B]

Now some parents would obviously then hide their affection for their own children and the kids would do the same to the parents. But they'd try to sneak.

[A]

Ben. Ben, I fucking love you, okay? It's me. I love you so much. Don't let me. Sounds like the south park devil.

[B]

Once kids hit puberty, they were assigned to an older opposite sex member for sex.

[A]

Wait, what? You just said sex four times and I am a little lost. Don't say no. What?

[B]

Once they hit puberty.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

So they're ready.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

They were assigned to an older opposite sex member for sex. But before the girls were assigned, John would take. John would be first. You had to teach.

[A]

You had to, when writing this, be like, maybe I shouldn't put that part in.

[B]

I kind of had to. But yeah, you're right. He was 37 now.

[A]

Anyone have a joke?

[B]

So the girls would go on interviews with older men and that the older guy would not ask the girl directly. An older woman would. So it's a whole thing. They kept notes of who asked for an interview and what had happened. So the idea was for HOLY members to introduce them to quote the holy pleasures of sex.

[A]

Yeah, Holy. Okay.

[B]

And then when dudes were 14, they would go on interviews with postmenopausal women.

[A]

Wow, this. This arrangement is very bizarre. Hello.

[B]

Because they couldn't get pregnant.

[A]

Oh, Jesus Christ. You know, you see this guy and you go, yeah, creepy, but he looks like every other guy in like the 1800s.

[B]

He does.

[A]

But in that weird little head of his, he's like, I've got a really good plan. And then the boys will date the postmenopausal women. Do, do, do, do, do. That's why you can't let your kid think too much. Anytime you see a kid thinking, put an iPad in front of his face. There's this whole campaign about not putting iPads in front of. Put an iPad in front of your kid. If your kid is ever looking up like that, he's thinking, she's thinking, stop it right away. IPad. No. Bam. Right like that. Put him YouTube. Bam.

[B]

If this guy was around today, he'd be a podcaster without question.

[A]

I would probably be like, so saunas are good. It's hard to put a hole in your sauna.

[B]

So the reason that they went with postmenopausal women was because teen boys couldn't control their orgasms. Gareth, you're asking me why control orgasms? Well, pulling out was the main birth control method at the time.

[A]

What was pulling out was right.

[B]

But in Oneida, the man was not to orgasm at all.

[A]

Now, I'll be honest. Did you hear what just happened? A few women in the room went. Now look, there's a lot of downside to this, but hold on a minute.

[B]

That would prevent pregnancy and ensure postmenopausal women.

[A]

This man wasn't much of a doctor.

[B]

This is. Is anybody. Anybody in the community.

[A]

Couldn't finish.

[B]

No, you're not supposed to finish.

[A]

Boy, oh boy.

[B]

It would prevent pregnancy.

[A]

Sure will.

[B]

Sure. The man maintained his vitality and the woman wasn't just for making babies.

[A]

You would drive by there and be like, what happened to all the men? Are like, oh, I'll be fine in 20 minutes.

[B]

Ah.

[A]

Owie, owie, owie, owie. Oh, so close. So close.

[B]

Can we change our name to blue Balls Community?

[A]

Oh, Oh, I'm gonna go rake.

[B]

Thank God you said rake. I was

[A]

leaves.

[B]

Okay. So the. In this. So the woman got to make the choice when she got pregnant. And the loss of semen also supposedly hurt a man's health and made sure the woman was optimally pleasured for maximal spiritual benefit.

[A]

Yep. See, I'll tell you that something did change in the room. There is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Half of the audience got a lot more open to religion.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, it's interesting now. You may finish.

[B]

Now. Strangely, not all the teens were into it.

[A]

Hum.

[B]

But they had to do it until they were old enough to have interview requests with people their own age. All this was very against the norms and morals of the time.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Because, you know.

[A]

Really? Because what?

[B]

Because of you're not supposed to do.

[A]

Because even back then people were like, wrong. We don't know anything. We think you could put poop in a wound. Wrong.

[B]

Okay. But not just because of the sexual abuse part of it. But John believed the woman's sexuality was healthy and positive and they should enjoy it. And that was super not normal at the time. Everyone was just like, what are you?

[A]

They were walking in on a room with like a teenager with like a 65 year old woman and they're like, hold on a minute. What the hell? Is she having an orgasm? No, no, let that boy finish. You have any idea how society functions? A woman enjoying herself? This is disgusting. This whole place should be condemned.

[B]

Burn it to the ground.

[A]

Burn it to the ground. They were letting women have orgasms. What? I'm a woman and that's terrible. Do they have any rooms available? Cause maybe I'll go undercover.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

Maybe I'll go undercover. I go in there, bust the whole thing up. After a few months of figuring out why. Yeah, I agree with her. I'm a different woman. It's not just one woman doing two voices that are very similar. I have two women. You're damn right I am, sister. Thank you, Sheila. You too. She, he, she. Whew.

[B]

That was close.

[A]

Think we got away with that one. I don't need to say this cause I'm the same person. Think that. Okay, I'll go undercover.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

Excuse me. Excuse me.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

Hello? Hi, Sheila.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Pd.

[B]

What?

[A]

The police department. I'm gonna go in there for a little while, okay? Okay. Excuse me.

[B]

Me, I'm going follow you.

[A]

Never mind.

[B]

Now, John, as much as it was great that he thought women should have orgasms, he also believed getting pregnant was the ruin of a woman's existence.

[A]

All right, there you go. Double edged.

[B]

He thought it stopped a woman from fulfilling her spiritual potential, reduced happiness and harmed their health. Now, a lot of babies died back then and he did have five kids already died. So there might be a little bit of trauma.

[A]

Right? Yeah. Right. It could be quite sad.

[B]

Yeah. And so? So getting pregnant meant more than just having kids, obviously. So John is all about birth control. And only 40 kids were born from 19, from 1840.

[A]

When you say he's all about birth control, he's all about pulling out and not having. And not finishing.

[B]

Yeah. On the face.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, sure. Not like moleskin or something like that? No, no.

[B]

So there's only 20, 40 kids over 20 years. There were about two to 300 members having a lot of sex. So that's actually a low number.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

They fucked each other, believing it brought them closer to God. There's no records of sisters or brothers or parents, any incest stuff going on?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

There's no records. Nieces, cousins. That's okay. Writer Lisa Hicks quote, they believe the liquid electricity of Jesus Christ's spirit flowed through words and touch. And that a chain of sexual intercourse would create a spiritual battery so charged with God's energy that the community would Transcend into immortality, creating heaven on earth.

[A]

Oh, my God. Prove it.

[B]

Proven wrong.

[A]

Yeah. This is like. This is what is on the back of Neuralink.

[B]

Now. If a woman and a guy wanted to have a baby, they had to apply.

[A]

Oh, my God. So you had to apply. You apply. A committee approves it.

[B]

Yeah. Decide if you were.

[A]

So why do you think he should be allowed to finish inside of you? Well, we want to have a baby. Interesting.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because we love each other?

[B]

What?

[A]

No, to charge the battery. Good. Okay.

[B]

So they wanted to make the best baby, but only nine couples throughout the years were denied.

[A]

Denied.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It wasn't like.

[A]

That's a sad that I know, right?

[B]

To be one of them.

[A]

No. You'll keep pulling out. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

What happened? It's stamped anal.

[A]

You'll go in the back. Yep. No, I don't think so. No. But you've approved, like, everyone. Yeah. Not you. That's creepy. Get out. You could be with her. That could be fun.

[B]

It wasn't the classic eugenics, a perfect physical baby that they wanted, but to breed, hoping the holiest among them would give birth to a race of immortals, which John called the Pickles Stirpickles.

[A]

Nobody's going to correct you. You could literally say pickles. Stirpicles.

[B]

Stirpicults.

[A]

Stirpicults.

[B]

Those are stirpicults. Oh.

[A]

This is the foundation of the Little Rascals. So, wait, someone is going to give birth to the immortals?

[B]

Stirpicults. So they're. They're like, closer to God? Because they were. They came from two people fucking with the electricity and they were full of the right amount of spiritual semen.

[A]

Those kids. Sure. Okay. Sure. Absolutely.

[B]

And that's hastening Christ's kingdom, right? Women were encouraged to do work as the same jobs and play sports the same as men.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They were even pushed to do, quote,

[A]

brain work, Writing and writing, bookkeeping. By the way, for a woman, this operation makes a lot more sense than anything else. This is where I can have a bank account.

[B]

They had time because their kids were in the childhouse.

[A]

I mean, there's so much of this that is so close to, like, socialism and then daycare equality.

[B]

Mended household tasks like laundry, which was insane for the time.

[A]

I don't know what I'm doing. This is crazy. You wash socks. I miss when I could ejaculate. It's like, I don't understand. Why does God hate us? Can't have orgasms. I haven't seen my son in a while because I loved him. I'm doing laundry. My wife's coming. This is a nightmare. What is your plan, sir? Are you even a he?

[B]

Women cut their hair short. And they threw away their corset and wore pantaloons under their dresses.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Charles Guiteau's father.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Was one of John's followers.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And Charles came to Oneida in 1860.

[A]

Do you want to explain who Guiteau is to those who don't know? Charles Guiteau, I believe, is the man who ended up putting goat testicles in his stomach.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Oh, he killed Garfield. But I think he also put balls in his.

[B]

He definitely cut his nuts off.

[A]

Yeah, he cut his nuts off. That's what I was doing. But this is the guy who killed Garfield.

[B]

The guy who put nuts in other people is a doctor.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. I'm sorry. He's actually the Health and Human Services director.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you put some goat balls in your belly, you could marry the star of Curb youb Enthusiasm. It's all part of my pamphlet. Whoops. I'm in charge. Okay, so this guy killed Garfield, but not yet. But he also cut his balls. Yeah, it's before he cut his Garfield,

[B]

but he hasn't cut his balls off either yet.

[A]

Oh, okay. By the way, my girlfriend and I did watch the Netflix show about this guy killing Garfield.

[B]

Oh, you did?

[A]

And it was great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Never talked about the ball cut off. Never came up in the origin story of this guy. I mean, come on.

[B]

It's a weird scene.

[A]

It's a fucking great scene for an actor. That's fucking Emmy shit. Are you kidding me? If you shot that show and then you were like, someone's like, you know, he cut his balls off, I'd be like, what? Why is that not in the script?

[B]

It's just like when they married, they made Harriet Tubman movies and never shown her burning down plantations.

[A]

Don't compare that to this.

[B]

Oh, am I getting it confused? Oh, it's Boston Corbett. Cut his balls off. I'm wrong.

[A]

You got to cut your balls off. Dollop law. If you get a fact wrong, you have to do what the person did do.

[B]

Boston Corbett. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But he did not. Charles did not fit in at Oneida because he was bananas.

[A]

Literally.

[B]

They practiced mutual criticism, which was to get into groups to break the sin out of each other, and that did not go great for Charles.

[A]

Yeah, well, you fuck you back.

[B]

He also did not like doing menial labor and wasn't into free love because absolutely no one would fuck him at the Community.

[A]

I gotta be honest, of everyone I've seen, the most fuckable.

[B]

Well, you haven't seen that many.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, he's hot is all I'm saying. That is the most fuckable guy at the thing.

[B]

Those are crazy eyes.

[A]

Those are crazy. I got a thing for that. I also love shaving. That little line right between your beard and your hair, that is a sign of. I'm not. Okay? I hate sideburns, but I want a beard. I don't think that's an option.

[B]

It is now.

[A]

I cut my balls off. Oh, I didn't. Oh. Whoops.

[B]

So Charles Guiteau started to be called by the other Oneida members. Charles, get out.

[A]

It's like a Trump truth social right there. I call him Charles, get out. He needs to go.

[B]

Okay, this is the part that gets me.

[A]

What the fuck kind of setup is that?

[B]

After everything we've heard, he left after five years.

[A]

That is a. Read the room, bro. Five years. This place shocked every.

[B]

Everybody is each other except for him.

[A]

Maybe one night I'll get some runoff.

[B]

But then he came back again. But then he. Then he left again. He was like, no, that's not working.

[A]

I realize I shouldn't have left. Oh, no.

[B]

What about this?

[A]

I got cologne.

[B]

No,

[A]

go.

[B]

Look at my eyes.

[A]

No. Charles. Goto. No, no, no. Stop doing it. Go. Stop. That was just a blink. Stop blinking like that. Just go. That's a horrible. Stop. Get out. Go. Get out. What is that sound? What is that supposed to be? That's not. Have you ever made it?

[B]

What?

[A]

But it doesn't make a sound like that.

[B]

I'm being sexy.

[A]

Get out. Hey, Charles. We're letting children fuck grandmas, but

[B]

just let me have one post menopausal one.

[A]

No, not to commoner. What? No, I won't come. Stop saying that. Get out. Look, just get out. Just.

[B]

I'm gonna cut Boston Corbett's balls off.

[A]

That make any sense? I don't know if you're around at the same time.

[B]

I don't either.

[A]

I'm gonna go back in time and cut his balls off. What do depression, loneliness, explosive diarrhea, and picking up trash have in common? Believe it or not, everything I. Spiegel, host of the podcast Lunatic in the newsroom. This week, B.J. shea and I connect four stories that, at first glance, have nothing to do with each other. A congressman's struggle with depression. America's loneliness epidemic. The parasite making people sick across the country. And why Japan's World cup fans continue to embarrass the rest of us in

[B]

the best possible way.

[A]

Join us for lunatic in the newsroom.

[B]

Okay, so after he left, he sued John for not paying him for work, and then he killed the president.

[A]

President.

[B]

Should have him.

[A]

That's like the story of Stephen Miller.

[B]

He's the only guy in America who's semen is black, so.

[A]

And comes out in one.

[B]

He comes. Dark ghosts.

[A]

Oh, Katie. Miller's like another baby sire. Well, Steven's in there having sex. Unbelievable.

[B]

So while they started with money, it had hundreds of members. By 1860, they were struggling financially, and they needed to bring money in quick. Their very first attempt at business was growing fruit.

[A]

This is. But this fate. This is. This also hits a lot of cults. Like, it's like, now we need a financial plan. And you're like, this is over. We're gonna sell peaches.

[B]

Well, the problem with fruit is New York state has harsh winters, so, you know, oranges are going to work. Then they took a shot at making leather bags.

[A]

So we're now a handbag community.

[B]

They started making fur coats, which were. They made. They cut the fur for the fur coats because fur was a big, huge fat at this time. So the traps sold well over years. They built a farm, a sawmill, a flower mill, a canning plant, and factories

[A]

that make candy plant.

[B]

Canning. Okay, canning.

[A]

Canning, yeah.

[B]

In fact, factories that made chains and suitcases and silverware and woolen goods and silk thread.

[A]

Take back what I said.

[B]

They built a library, a school, a theater, a Turkish bath. I mean. Yeah.

[A]

The best kind of Turkish bath. No, not bad.

[B]

Let's make a bath. But where we can all.

[A]

For anyone who hasn't bathed in Turkey, it is the ultimate luxury. The way that gravy hits the.

[B]

What'd you say?

[A]

The Turkish bath. The way that the gravy hits the turkey when you slip in it. 100%.

[B]

I think you're thinking of a turkey bath.

[A]

Yeah, that's it. And that is an unbelievable thing. Oh, that feeling when you jump into that slab.

[B]

No, no, you shouldn't be in there with the turkey.

[A]

No, you're. Well, it's cut.

[B]

No, the turkey. You.

[A]

You. Oh, that feeling when you come up for air.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Underneath. Pounds of boar's head turkey.

[B]

I don't think this is a thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it is a thing. I've been to a bunch of turkey baths. This is the best. Oh,

[B]

this is Turkish bath.

[A]

Yeah. It's a typo. It's autocorrect.

[B]

So members were assigned jobs and they could rotate. Prosperity.

[A]

Let.

[B]

Let them build and play. They made time for religious study, everyone played a musical instrument. They had nightly dances in concert. Each night there was a novel reading and many came to attend. Holy. But nighttime was also for mutual criticism.

[A]

I love that. I do like that. You suck.

[B]

That's when they got harsh feedback on everything from how they walked to taking part in Sticky Love.

[A]

You got a wide ass gait. I don't care for it. You walk like a fucking weird ass penguin. Fuck you, stupid fuck. I don't like the way you got a little jaunt to your shit. Fucking loser. Fuck that. I'm done with that shit. You suck.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Your walk is stupid. Hey, put your feet closer together. What are you showing off? Looks like you rode a goddamn horse all weekend, you piece of shit. I hate you and your dumb walk. He walk like a weirdo. What the fuck? Fuck off.

[B]

What the fuck is.

[A]

I love nights.

[B]

You're really.

[A]

Well, we could be honest.

[B]

You're really bad at this.

[A]

Your walk sucks.

[B]

What?

[A]

Your walk sucks. You walk wide.

[B]

Okay, we get it, man.

[A]

Would you get it, man?

[B]

Moving on to the next.

[A]

Always looks when you're walking like you're moving down a balance beam that only you can see.

[B]

You look like you haven't come in 10 years.

[A]

What's your problem? I haven't. The baby boy denied my. My petition.

[B]

Oh, that's right.

[A]

I've been pitching it off at the joad. You walk sucks. You freaking walks the worst. You walk like you have a family.

[B]

All right.

[A]

The sun's coming up.

[B]

So we said yeah to wrap it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good session, everybody. Not you, but everyone.

[A]

Yeah. Gotta get through this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had an orgasm.

[B]

So criticism was done by a small community that rotated. So everyone got to being on it. Everyone was criticized except John, of course. Children were criticized as well. Hey, you walk funny, you little.

[A]

That is an eight month old baby.

[B]

Keep on my legs, you loser.

[A]

That's a baby. I don't believe babies should be open to the criticizing evening.

[B]

Get up. Walk.

[A]

Loser.

[B]

But their idealistic work conditions didn't create enough product to make money that they needed. So they had to do what they abhorred. Hire wage labor to work in their factories. They called them hirelings. Should go back to that.

[A]

We are.

[B]

They work 12 hour work days and the Oneidians just work four hours.

[A]

Wow. Well, gotta go. See you later.

[B]

I'm gonna go rest. Get those spoons made.

[A]

You'll be finished in 12 hours. I'll never finish.

[B]

They hired 10 to 16 year old girls for the thread factory because they had tiny fingers for the thin silk strand.

[A]

You have little fingers, which we like.

[B]

Author Anthony Wonderly argues that once they brought in wage labor, a decline crept in, and the communal feeling keeping the community together was gone. In 1877, an Oneida kid was sitting on the banks of the river and saw a silver factory. And he figured since the community was on the same river, they could also make silverware and ship it on the river. He saw a silverware factory, and he was like, we could do that. It's called being a genius.

[A]

I had an idea from that. Let's do that. It's called an idea.

[B]

So they built a factory and started making tin spoons. At first, that was all they made, spoons. By 1879, the Oneida community was making all the silverware.

[A]

Next, we're at the point where I'm wondering if Oneida silverware still exists. And I'm worried that it does. Like, I feel like I have an Oneida fork somewhere. And I was just like. Without realizing. This was made from the sweat and non semen of generations of men petitioning for a child while women were happily orgasming.

[B]

So fishers began in the community. John was old, and he was going deaf.

[A]

What?

[B]

He couldn't speak at meetings anymore. He was no longer the glue of the society or a sex magnet. It. Some children had grown and were sent to Yale, and they came back with skepticism of John's prophet status.

[A]

We're here because of the prophet John.

[B]

You guys all don't. You guys don't think John is the prophet.

[A]

Wait, what? Yale poisoning more minds?

[B]

That's insane. Some petitioned John to replace Bible comments communism with democracy and embrace individualism and capitalism. A new Christian crusade was rising in the US and in 1878, the Supreme Court banned polygamy in Utah.

[A]

Such bullshit, right? It's all they had. That and the jazz.

[B]

A minister wrote an office op ed in the New York Times making fun of lawmakers for going after Mormons but ignoring the Oneida community paper. A paper soon after reported authorities were going to arrest John. And in the middle of the night, he fled to Canada.

[A]

Canada's the best.

[B]

Yeah, we'll take it.

[A]

Yeah. He was like, and what brings you to Canada? Ah. Why are you coming to Canada? What was that? Why are you coming to Canada? I don't understand. Why are you coming to Canada? Ah. All right.

[B]

Okay. With no leader, everything started to fall apart. Members paired off with their favorite partner into traditional relationships. Horrifying. Many of the women had had kids with multiple partners in the outside world. The single women Were called adulteresses and their kids. Bastards. A group formed. Okay, then a group formed who wanted to have sex without getting approval.

[A]

They were called regular people.

[B]

Can I fuck Linda without asking you guys? Can we just. Just.

[A]

You're asking us right now? Yeah. You're so used. Yes, I would like to.

[B]

I would like to bang you without other people knowing.

[A]

Yeah, just get the certificate stamped.

[B]

No, I. I want to do it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Without them knowing. Like we are out.

[A]

Who's approving it?

[B]

In on the lawn and then we go by the bush and we just do it and. No, nobody knows. It's just you and I.

[A]

As long as you don't have an orgasm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No.

[B]

I'm gonna come all over the place.

[A]

What? Oh no. This sounds like a manosphere. I don't think I like this very well.

[B]

Fuck.

[A]

Start a podcast, ass.

[B]

But loyal followers objected to that, saying it destroyed the holy purpose of lovemaking. You've got to get approval.

[A]

We've got to go to these old men and ask them if we can do it. You sound crazy.

[B]

John sent a notice from Niagara Falls calling for a vote to be held to end complex marriage to protect women and children. So they voted for it. And complex marriage was over on August 28, 1879. But that day, one woman had sex with three men because she loved sex so much and was poly quote. The Oneidians called her a social magnet because she liked having sex with lots of different partners. It worked for her. The sex magnet is Johnson niece Terza Miller. Ms. Miller, if you're nasty.

[A]

Hell yeah.

[B]

John had called for if they got rid of complex marriage for people to be celibate before they got married.

[A]

Okay, so we're very close to just traditional.

[B]

He just flipped the term.

[A]

We're going to do Christianity regular. Sorry about all that weird diversion now I kind of figured it all out. We'll just go. The regular ones were right.

[B]

Now that I'm not around, everyone should really stop fucking.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But if I ever come to town, we'll go back to what we had

[B]

for a couple days.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But all the people just blew that off. The whole thing had collapsed in August 1880 and it was was decided the community could break up and restructure as a joint stock company. Oneida Community Limited.

[A]

We're now. We're now. We're now just a bunch of bonds.

[B]

I know we've all been fucking each other, but what about a corporation?

[A]

Have you heard about going public?

[B]

Shares were decided based on original investment. The amount of labor put in over the Years.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Some of these people had never handled money in their life. Waylon Smith quote. Some had grown, having never even seen it. John Humphrey Noyes son. Pierpont.

[A]

What? Pierpont

[B]

sure was a boy when the community broke up. And he wrote that it seems strange that you would have possession of something like a snow sled and it wouldn't be shared with a larger group. So he was like, how could you own something on your own?

[A]

You've got to share. Everyone should be able to ride it,

[B]

but get permission first.

[A]

A lot of the boys are having orgasms on the toboggan.

[B]

So everyone.

[A]

That's for the snowman's pipe.

[B]

So everyone was pairing up quickly and marrying. Some women, however, were left without anyone and they struggled and they ended up quasi destitute. One of the bastard kids returned when he was older to help run the business. And he took over from old older members in 1895. And he didn't give a shit about any of the spiritual bullshit.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then he invited some other stirpicult kids and they took over the whole board. Before them, nothing had ever made a profit. And he cut a lot of stuff and it became just a silverware company. Below sterling silver, there was an open market for common folk to have nice middle class silverware. And the company took off. They got in celebrity endorsements like Princess Margareth of Denmark.

[A]

Hello, I'm Margareth.

[B]

And the silverware became attached to the idea of a high class home. They were the largest seller of silverware in the United States in the middle of the 1900s. People kept asking questions about the Oneida community. So in 1947 all the documents were taken out of the mansion and burned.

[A]

It is so fucking hysterical. I cannot believe silver where they sell at Target. I mean it started from men not being able to have orgasms and silver salacious partner swapping.

[B]

The company kept going strong until filing for bankruptcy in 2006. But Oneida Silverware is still sold today.

[A]

Wow. It's weird that it's still out there.

[B]

I know.

[A]

How do they not have a company and they're still making it. I'm still making it.

[B]

Bought by someone else. Right. Big silver came in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Big spoon.

[A]

Here we go. Yeah. It's funny because every time I've used that silverware, I've never actually. I take it to my mouth and I won't open. And then I've watched women use it and they just shovel it in. And I've always wondered why. There you go. That's the story. Fuck me. Well, Yep.

[B]

The Main source of collectorsweekly.com the polyamorous Christian socialist utopia that made civil war for proper Americans.

[A]

Well, is that the title?

[B]

Yeah, that's the article. Also emsco.com blueocean thinking.com blue ocean thinking

[A]

was like, this is under our umbrella.

[B]

Crime reads.com theranker.com and oh, lapmanscorterly.org also

[A]

I believe pinchitoff UA pinchitoff don't come.com christianity.com bingo. All right, everybody, thank you very much for coming out. We appreciate it. Thank you.