745 - The Zoot Suit Riots

Summary

The Dollop Episode 745: The Zoot Suit Riots (Part 1)

Podcast: The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds
Episode: 745 - The Zoot Suit Riots
Date: August 4, 2026
Theme: Comedians Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds explore the historical context and societal tensions that gave rise to the Zoot Suit Riots of 1943, focusing in this first part on the Sleepy Lagoon murder, LA’s racial divides, Mexican-American youth culture, and the aggressive policing that set the stage for one of Los Angeles' most infamous racial conflicts.

---

Episode Overview

Dave and Gareth take a deep dive into the origins of the Zoot Suit Riots, starting with both irreverent banter and moving quickly into the serious events surrounding the Sleepy Lagoon murder. They discuss the social tensions in Los Angeles during the early 1940s: racialized policing, the visible rise of Mexican-American youth subculture, the demonization of zoot suits, and how white anxieties and media hysteria laid the groundwork for explosive violence.

---

Main Topics and Key Discussion Points

The Sleepy Lagoon Murder: Setting the Scene

[06:10 - 14:52]

• Jose Diaz's Story: The episode frames the beginning of the Zoot Suit story around Jose Diaz, a young Mexican immigrant raised in poverty whose family fled to California seeking better opportunities.

  • “Jose Diaz was born to a butcher turned farmer, and he was raised in poverty... Like a lot of Garrett's comedy. Inappropriate stuff crammed in. Also his lovemaking.” (Dave, [03:01])
  • The family eventually settles in LA County, highlighting the interconnected communities of Mexican migrants and their tight-knit celebrations ([05:09])

• The Sleepy Lagoon Incident:

  • Describes an altercation at a birthday party for Victoria Del Gadillo, attended by Mexican and Mexican-American youths.
  • White boys from Downey crash the party, are thrown out after demanding beer, and later attack Mexican-American youths at a popular make-out spot called Sleepy Lagoon ([07:04])
  • Violence escalates rapidly, culminating in Jose Diaz—drunk the night before he planned to enlist in the US military—being stabbed and ultimately dying from his injuries ([11:06], [14:21])
  • Memorable account from a witness:
    • “‘They found a bruise and bloody young man groaning slowly and lying face down in the dirt. Betty fell to her knees and turned him over onto his back, cradled his bloody face in her lap and tried to wake him up. It was Jose Diaz.’” (Dave, [11:45])

• Media & Police Reaction:

  • The LA Times puts Diaz’s death on the front page but downplays the significance (“major Mexican casualty”), rolling it into general concerns about East LA violence ([15:45])
  • Police dragnet follows, leading to hundreds of young Mexican and African Americans being rounded up in a show of force ([23:06])
  • Dave and Gareth point out how the white press lauded the police:
    • “It was a show of force designed to reassure the white middle class that the wartime police force was indeed capable of maintaining law and order among the working class youth who were too poor, too dark skinned, or too aesthetically different…” (Dave, [23:55])

---

Racial Divide and Public Paranoia

[15:32 - 35:32]

• Public Attitudes:

  • The murder is reframed by politicians and the media as a symptom of the “Mexican problem.”
  • Open debate over whether Mexicans and their children are biologically/culturally equipped for “white, civilized, democratic society.” (Dave, [18:04])
    • “Wow. Really hitting every angle there.” (Gareth, [18:34])
  • Overwhelming white anxiety over visible Mexican-American youth and their “refusal to conform to segregated America.” (Dave, [30:46])

• Policing and Proactive Enforcement:

  • The LAPD shifts to “proactive” (preventive) policing, interpreted as license for racial profiling and collective punishment targeting black and brown neighborhoods ([21:21])
    • “Proactive policing is always the best.” (Gareth, [21:33])
    • “If that doesn't scare you, well, it's always just a way to stop brown.” (Dave, [21:45])

• Routine Abuse:

  • Dave and Gareth describe routine violations of rights: mass dragnets, brutal interrogations, and fabricated confessions.
  • Example: Angel Padilla is beaten while being interrogated (“Sit down so we can hit you some more”) ([25:08])

• Racist Testimony and Yellow Journalism:

  • Police officials make openly racist statements before grand juries, likening Mexican Americans to Aztecs who “disregard human life” ([26:30])
  • Yellow journalism exaggerates the "Pachuco Menace," demonizing non-white youth while vastly overstating their numbers ([33:51])
    • Quote from a social psychologist: “The public discourse on the so called Pachuco menace reveals more about public anxieties over assertive non white use than it does about an actual Mexican American subculture.” ([34:43])

---

Youth Culture, Zoot Suits, and Social Panic

[35:32 - 73:45]

• The Pachuco Identity:

  • "Pachuco" is originally a slur for flashy, non-conforming Mexican-American youth, which the subculture reclaims ([32:45])
  • The “pachucos” dress in outlandish zoot suits, dance to jazz, and refuse to back down to white authority – becoming a focus for mainstream fear and resentment ([32:04], [33:20])
  • Gareth jokes: “It always works the best...Just great. We're like, now hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. Yeah, that's our word for you.” ([33:11])

• Zoot Suit as Cultural Flashpoint:

  • Zoot suits emerge from Black jazz culture and are only worn by a small fraction of Mexican American youth, but become a catch-all symbol for lawlessness, sex, and disregard for white norms.
  • The style: exaggerated shoulders, “girlish” waists, flaring jacket and pants, flamboyant fabric, and in LA, heavy platform shoes ([46:03])
  • “The zoot produced a striking silhouette...the upper male body by highlighting wide shoulders and tapering dramatically down to what Davenport described as a girlish waist...” (Dave, [47:05])
  • "Fashion is not about comfort—never has been. Look at us. Look at you." ([48:10])
  • Laws pass restricting fabric use—a World War II measure quickly weaponized as a way to police and erase the zoot suit ([52:43])

• White Society’s Backlash:

  • Whites are scandalized by “ostentatious” Mexican and Black youth fashion.
    • “You're not supposed to be the ones having fun.” (Dave, [48:53])
    • “Please go over there and eat beans quietly. Like we would love.” (Gareth, [49:05])
  • Lost in the moral panic: the actual wearers are a minority. The anxiety is a projection of social control and fear of a more assertive, visible minority presence ([34:43], [73:05])
  • Zoot suits became an easy scapegoat for wartime hysteria over rationing and perceived lack of patriotism ([73:05])
    • “Wearing one was seen as a total disregard for community, thrift and sacrifice… We're in our I'm not racist, but… era.” (Dave, [73:05])

• Police Criminalization and Material Stereotypes:

  • Police routinely stop, frisk, and arrest youths for their clothing, shoes (suspected “weapons”), or simply for carrying cash ([66:05], [67:56])
  • Gareth mock-laments: “You're gonna tell me you got a pocket full of money in big shoes and you're not out there doing crime?” ([70:00])
  • Dave: “This is the thing they have, this is their one thing.” ([67:51])
  • The hostility embodies longstanding white suspicion of Black and brown prosperity (“big TV” syndrome) ([67:19])

• Culture Clash and Escalation:

  • The negative portrayal of pachucos (through yellow journalism and public discourse) is compared to other moral panics over music and youth culture (jazz, rock, rap) ([37:35])
  • The suit itself becomes a divisive “jersey”—a flashpoint for public taunting, scapegoating, and eventual violence.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You know it’s bad when the white guy's like, hey, hey, enough.” (Gareth, [09:51])
• “Soon after, Californians would again revive the discourse on the Mexican problem…” (Dave, [18:04])
• “Preventative enforcement brought about a type of racial profiling… which is always just a way to stop brown.” (Dave, [21:45])
• “Their failure to conform came from a direct refusal to accept the racialized norms of segregated America.” (Dave, [30:46])
• “If I could summarize… they’re dirty, dirty people.” (Dave, [27:20])
• “It's always the same. They lose their minds when new types of music become popular… rap, rock.” (Dave, [37:41])
• “The symbolism of money, sex, and attitude… It wasn’t cheap—between $1,000 and $2,500 in today’s money.” (Dave, [71:47])
• “Putting on a zoot suit was like putting on the fan’s version of a sports jersey. But in this case, the members of the team were outcasts and villains.” (Dave, [73:43])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 06:10–14:52 | The killing at Sleepy Lagoon and its aftermath | | 15:32–23:55 | Public/media framing, police crackdown, “the Mexican problem” | | 25:08–27:20 | Police brutality: Angel Padilla’s beating, racist grand jury testimony | | 30:46–37:41 | Racialized social spaces, rise of the pachuco, and youth culture clashes | | 46:03–56:12 | Anatomy of the zoot suit, fashion police, cultural policing | | 66:05–70:11 | Policing, arrests for cash, big shoes as “weapons,” material stereotypes | | 73:05–73:45 | Zoot suit as team “jersey,” the symbolism for “outcasts and villains” | | 75:21–end | Cops announce “solution” to Jose Diaz murder, end of part one, sources |

---

Episode Tone and Style

While filled with the hosts’ signature irreverent comedy, playful asides, and tangents, the episode stays rooted in its critique of American racism, policing, and the ongoing cultural conflict over who gets to participate in public life and on whose terms. Dave provides historical narrative, while Gareth’s ad libs and dark humor highlight the absurdities and repetitions of American history.

---

Takeaways

• The Zoot Suit Riots were far more than a “fashion fight”—they were a collision of race, nationalism, and the policing of public space and youth identity.
• The criminalization of Mexican-American (and Black) youth was rooted in deep-seated white anxieties and myths about “the Mexican problem,” powerfully amplified by media and public officials.
• Police response to Jose Diaz’s murder signaled a shift towards more aggressive, racially-targeted policing that would spiral into wider violence.
• The demonization of style, pleasure, and cultural pride among “outsider” groups—whether through music, fashion, or social gathering—has been a recurring theme in the policing of American identity.

---

[End of Part 1 – The next installment will continue with the riot’s outbreak, the trial of the 38th Street youths, and the long-term impact.]

Sources cited in-episode:

• "Murder at the Sleepy Lagoon" by Eduardo Abregon Pagan
• LA Times, Los Angeles Examiner, Collier’s Magazine
• Research by Josh Androwski

[Listen to the next part for the explosive conflict and aftermath of the Zoot Suit Riots.]

Transcript

[Dave Anthony]

My father's dead. You killed him.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They think that I'm shiny.

[Dave Anthony]

I am a pie man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm Pete Rose and I only go to Gold's Gym. This one specifically.

[Dave Anthony]

Rumor is that his penis is broken

[Gareth Reynolds]

and show up where the taco bar was.

[Dave Anthony]

His brain just fucking exploded.

[Gareth Reynolds]

River of cheese. You been drinking any gnome juice?

[Dave Anthony]

No, officer. My dad had a fart chair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, cover me.

[Dave Anthony]

You're listening to the Dial up on the All Things Comedy Network. This is a American history podcast where each week I, Dave Anthony, read a story from American history to a guy,

[Gareth Reynolds]

to a great guy, to a hell of a guy. Gareth Reynolds, who has no idea what the topic is going to be about.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, you do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I don't.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, you do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Come on. We're hanging in there, everybody. We are. You don't know.

[Dave Anthony]

Dave doesn't give you the scripts ahead of time. No, because that would ruin it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Yeah, it would ruin it.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it would ruin it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It'd be so much hat. I'm hacky as is. Can you imagine me with, like, being able to go through notes and be like that? And I'll. I'll probably do a British guy there. Perfect for Sky. I'll actually. You know what I'll do? I'll do that old bit.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, yeah, the old guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's what I'll do. The old guy.

[Dave Anthony]

Not the old man. Well, yeah, there he is.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Yeah, maybe I'll do. You know what? I'm gonna do the old guy. This one.

[Dave Anthony]

There's gonna be no time for it. There's gonna be.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I bet you I can find him in.

[Dave Anthony]

There's no. I can find it in for this old guy in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

This doesn't have to be in there. I'll figure it out.

[Dave Anthony]

There is literally no place for an old person in this.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm excited for those to go.

[Dave Anthony]

This whole thing, this is. This is the standby me story.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I just watched the end of that the other day.

[Dave Anthony]

Did just the end.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Interesting take.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. I only watched the end and I stand by it.

[Dave Anthony]

Are you on Kefir Sutherland side or the body? You're on the body side.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm on the body side at the end.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm on the train side.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Interesting. I'm on Corey Feldman's dad's side.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's nice.

[Dave Anthony]

Deep cuts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Deep. Deep and dirty cuts.

[Dave Anthony]

September 1919. Year of our Lord J Town. You know? No, you know what J Town's human father's name was, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

J Town's humans fought a human's father's name?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, Broseph. Did you know that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

His name was Broseph. He's a big Frisbee guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here's what we're not going to do. We're not going to start talking about. About that he taught how.

[Dave Anthony]

He taught J town how to jump on a dirt bike. Like do the dirt bike tricks and stuff and all the dirt bike stuff that he does now. Anyway, R.I.P. good fellow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The.

[Dave Anthony]

The dad bros of good. December 19th, 1919. Sorry. Durango, Mexico. They said September. Whatever. December. It's all the same.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The is going. You got so caught up in your brosive stuff now we're in a couple months in the future.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't think I ever said that. And there's no. There's no tape proof that I did. Durango, Mexico. Jose Diaz was born to a butcher turned farmer, and he was raised in poverty. Okay, so it sounds like that wasn't the right move. You should have stayed a butcher.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep.

[Dave Anthony]

Killing animals never goes out of business.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, you know, his. His grandpa was like, well, oh, no, now you're not gonna have any money now.

[Dave Anthony]

Did you say you would shoehorn it in or actually organically? I didn't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I didn't say. Either way. I told you it was coming. Yeah, maybe you should go back to being a butcher.

[Dave Anthony]

Like a lot of Garrett's comedy. Inappropriate stuff crammed in. Also his lovemaking.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, may I cram you?

[Dave Anthony]

No, sir.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let me go cramming.

[Dave Anthony]

They call me Krampa and nice. Jesus Christ at night. That's actually a good video. In 1923.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We should.

[Dave Anthony]

There it is. There's our. There's our porn page. Grandpa.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Grandpa. Yeah. Oh, may I. May I push it a little?

[Dave Anthony]

That's gotta be a lot of people's thing, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

What a guy.

[Dave Anthony]

Old guy cramming it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, like, we will find you again.

[Dave Anthony]

Fine. It's gonna be. That would be a n people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love crampa. How about a cramp pie?

[Dave Anthony]

You ever heard of grandpa issues?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Grandpa? Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

In 1923, Jose's family migrated to California, along with millions of refugees fleeing local strongmen and a terrible drought that left up to 3/4 of all crops withered.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Man, I'll tell you, I just hate it when people's countries. Crops collapse and they go looking for a safe place. Remember that?

[Dave Anthony]

You got to put him in jail.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Remember that?

[Dave Anthony]

His father followed the farm labor circuit. Quote, lettuce and salinas. Grapes in pylier oranges in Ontario. Cotton and Fireborough. Fireball. Fireball and Plums in Santa Clara.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Beautiful. Beautiful stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

Five years later, when Jose was nine, they settled in what was a rural area in LA county and now is the city of Bell. Bell is like south east of downtown la.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay, sure, whatever.

[Dave Anthony]

Not as far as Downey.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Don't even get me started on Downey.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I hear you. They lived in a compound for ranch hands on the Williams Ranch. Other migrants? Pretty much all. All Mexican, except for an account one Italian family.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And there was the old guy.

[Dave Anthony]

No, it's everyone that is under 30. Everyone under 30 my bed anymore. Everyone's under 30.

[Gareth Reynolds]

May I have a go with your wife?

[Dave Anthony]

What the. Grandpa.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Grandpa. Gonna get inside of it?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, that's the worst thing you've ever said. It's the worst thing. Are you inside of it? Grandpa? That's an orange.

[Gareth Reynolds]

All done.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I've made Creamsicle.

[Dave Anthony]

The village celebrated weddings, birthdays and even funerals together. So it's a big community, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure. I love a funeral celebration.

[Dave Anthony]

The night of August 1, 1941, they were having a big birthday party for Victoria del Gadillo's 20th birthday.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Something got my throat right there. Live music, beer, and beautiful.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I got a solution.

[Dave Anthony]

What's that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Lick it up. Get it nice and juicy.

[Dave Anthony]

Hey. We have officially come up with the worst character on this show ever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, you. Now, look, the story is early.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm not part of it. I. I threw the idea out there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. What is it? What's in your head?

[Dave Anthony]

I think I have a snail. Little baby snail.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A lot of drips.

[Dave Anthony]

So, you know, they're having a big party. Live music, beer, beautiful women, dancing with guys. Yeah, the whole thing. During the band's intermission around 11pm A group of white boys from Downey showed up uninvited and got rowdy when the beer ran out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sounds about right.

[Dave Anthony]

They yelled at the host to get some more goddamn beer and were quickly thrown out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Around the corner was the Sleepy Lagoon, which was a popular spot for kids to make out and do heavy petting. Do the petting, you know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hell, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

The Heaviness. A group of youths from what was then 38th street, so near Dodger Stadium, were there doing. Doing the heavy. The heavy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Grinding.

[Dave Anthony]

Grinding. Getting the pets doing the, you know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Pumping with your clothes on.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Finger stuff, man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Humping with your clothes on. Remember that?

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ouch.

[Dave Anthony]

They parked their cars and were about to get out when three guys in a Model A Ford slowly drove by yelling obscenities. Obscenities in Spanish and English. One of the 38 Street Boys. Henry Levis shouted back. And then the couple split up and walked around the lagoon to find a quiet place to do some necking and heavy petting. Get the pets on. Very heavy hjs like you get yourself over like ajs. You go there, you take a hamster out of your pocket, you just pet that Hamster.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh.

[Dave Anthony]

Around 30 minutes later, the romance was shattered by what sounded like a fight happening. So they rushed back from their spots that they were at to their cars to find Henry and his girlfriend Dora being savagely beaten by about 16 men. And one shouted at Henry, quote, we will take you guys on anytime you want to,

[Gareth Reynolds]

okay?

[Dave Anthony]

Dora screamed for them to stop hitting him as she held on to Henry. And the attack stopped as their friends came running up, but just momentarily. Several then knocked Gilbert Mendoza to the ground with clubs and kicked him several times. Then they threw him in the water.

[Gareth Reynolds]

These are white guys.

[Dave Anthony]

White guys are fighting. Yeah, I think it's the white guys. It is, yeah, it's the guy's from Dania. Then they knocked Gilbert Mendoza to the ground with clubs and kicked him several times. They threw him in the water. Bobby Tellis was badly beaten with a beer bottle. Half of the group chased Manny Delgado and Gus Zamora as about five returned to Henry and Dora, who had crawled into their car for safety. And then they attacked him in the car, hitting them and kicking them until someone in their group finally pulled them off because it was too much.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Jesus Christ. You know it's bad when the white guy's like, hey, hey, enough.

[Dave Anthony]

Come on, stop it. Manny sprinted off. It was caught and knocked and knocked into an irrigation ditch and then muddied and wet. He got up and kept running until he got into a cornfield. There he found Gus in the corn. And they waited for a while and then when they came out, the attackers were gone. And Henry told them that these guys were from the Downey gang. So the 38th street kids went home and rallied their boys.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's the Downey gang. No, no, that's the.

[Dave Anthony]

Our 30th street is the ones who just got beat up by the Downey gang.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

And then they headed for Victoria Del Gadillo's birthday party to get revenge because that's where the Downey boys are, I guess. So Henry led the Mexican and Mexican American kids to the spot. And 22 year old Jose Diaz was at the party drunk off his ass. It was his last night before he was going to report to the recruitment center to enlist in the war. He didn't have to join up. He was born in Mexico, but he chose to go fight for his adopted country because he felt it was the right thing to do. Fool.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, long term. Oopsie.

[Dave Anthony]

Jose and some other guys wrapped it up and left the party not far away. Jose was jumped. Arms, clubs, feet hit him from all sides. He fell onto the road and was stabbed twice in the stomach with an ice pick.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

Jesus Christ. Just. Just trying to get the ice. That's all that's going on there. Like a lot of people be like, self defense. Was it aggressive? But if you're trying to get the ice out of a guy's tummy, use an ice pick.

[Gareth Reynolds]

God damn, that is. That's just sick. Ice picking a stomach.

[Dave Anthony]

Not great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

The next events happen within moments of each other. So Henry and a group of six 38th street boys stormed the gate to the party. Two young women from the 38th street heard screams and ran to see what it was. Quote, they found a bruise and bloody young man groaning slowly and lying face down in the dirt. Betty fell to her knees and turned him over onto his back, cradled his bloody face in her lap and tried to wake him up. It was Jose Diaz at the party. Henry shouted over the fence, quote, where are the boys that said they were gonna beat us up? Oh, you. Woman yelled back. There is nobody here. Everybody has gone home. Something about one of the men looking out at Henry triggered rage, and some historians think may he may have looked like one of the men who attacked him earlier when he was in his car with Dora. Some think he grabbed an improvised weapon to defend himself. Either way, it all went nuts. The boys ran through the gate. One of them accidentally sent the man's wife tumbling to the dirt, knocked her out cold. A woman raised a beer bottle to smash one of the toast.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh,

[Dave Anthony]

here's to Russia.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, gosh. Never mind.

[Dave Anthony]

A woman raised a beer bottle to smash one of the 38 Street Boys, but his wife shouted, quote, you can't hit my old man like that, and grappled with her. The boy saw his lady in a. In a fight and hit the woman party goer in the face. 38th street girls pounced on the female partygoers, slashed at her with a beer bottle and tore out chunks of her hair. So it's kicking off.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

That is. At the same time, the 38 street kids who didn't go inside started vandalizing guest cars outside.

[Gareth Reynolds]

O that's where I'd be.

[Dave Anthony]

That's the move.

[Gareth Reynolds]

100%. Yeah. Don't worry. I keyed two Chevys. How many did you kill?

[Dave Anthony]

Smashing them with rocks and shooting their tires with a.22 rifle. Back in the house, a.38 Street Boy punched the birthday girl's sister in the face.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Holy.

[Dave Anthony]

And her dad came to her defense, screaming, coward. And then he got popped in the gin and flew back through the kitchen door. Holy. And then the violence ended as quickly as it began when someone shouted, police, police. And the 38th street kids ran to their cars and sped off. The party hosts started looking outside of their property for anyone who was hurt. And there they found Jose Diaz, quote, lying face up in the middle of a rutted dirt road with his pockets turned inside out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's not good.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not great. Jose and his brother got to the hospital around 3am Quote, the attending physician diagnosed Jose with a cerebral concussion, noting that on his face was an abrasion with a large swelling just above his nose and that he was still bleeding from inside his left ear. On his body were two stab wounds near his diaphragm and at the bottom of his breastbone. And a finger on his left hand was broken. An hour and a half after he entered the hospital, Jose Diaz quietly died.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Well, Squarespace is just a. Oh, sorry.

[Dave Anthony]

No, it's that time Rocket.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey. Well, that's big start. Yeah, it's a bold. That's a bold open.

[Dave Anthony]

That's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Is this a two parter?

[Dave Anthony]

No, that's the whole thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's really a bummer.

[Dave Anthony]

This is a three parter.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh,

[Dave Anthony]

so it's just starting.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

That's just, that's just the beginning. Okay, so it doesn't get, it doesn't get huge headlines, although it is on the front page of LA Times.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, it's tough because they're like, look, he's from Mexico, but he was American.

[Dave Anthony]

No, that's exactly right. It's, it's a, it's a Mexican thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So it's on the front page, but it's folded into an article about street fights in east la.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote. The tone of reporting revealed concern over growing violence on Los Angeles, but did not suggest any particular alarm at one more Mexican casualty.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

So they're like, things are getting a little crazy down there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look, this could spread to whites.

[Dave Anthony]

That.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes, that could be a problem.

[Dave Anthony]

Soon after, California's governor ordered LA county law enforcement to crack down on street violence and youth gangs battle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We continue to wage and we will figure out how to stop all these from just trying to shut down. You Know what's going Pretty good.

[Dave Anthony]

Pretty good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Things are pretty good. And if you go to, you know, if you see the way the cops act in downtown la.

[Dave Anthony]

Sorry.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You'll see that it's pretty good. Yeah. Where it, you know, we're getting close. We're nearing figuring this. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

We almost got there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I think my one note for the. Maybe a little more gear.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, if we could just put a couple more things on them. You know, I showed you that video a couple weeks ago. That guy who built the indestructible suit that could, he could be attacked by a bear or enormous bar could be dropped from a tree and hit him and he'd. I think something like that would be pretty good.

[Dave Anthony]

Now you're getting into like a RoboCop territory. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But bulkier because they're right now they just don't have enough stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

The only thing about RoboCop is that he didn't have enough equipment on him. He just had the hands that were, that were.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. And he was too tall. I like, I like my cocktail on three eight. Yeah, three eight. Kind of a Napoleon thing going on.

[Dave Anthony]

Well now you're thinking, now you're getting in like robot dog territory.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. In many ways they are. They are that, you know, I don't know, just it seems cool to be like part of a group like that. They seem to be doing good.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Yeah, they really are. Sure, we're fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it's fine. And it's going to be fine. It's going to get finer.

[Dave Anthony]

So the governor orders the county, county cops to crack down on street violence and youth gangs. And Jose's murder investigation went from just another Brown killed, kill, killed on the streets to a major media event. Quote. In the months that followed, Californians would again revive the discourse on the Mexican problem.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, funny, I did rope a do. Nope, I did think we were going in the other direction. Oh you did? Yeah, I kind of thought maybe you were going to say that. You know, people started feeling empathy towards the really did.

[Dave Anthony]

And debate whether Mexican citizens and their American born children were culturally, politically, intellectually and biologically capable of living within a white, civilized, democratic society. Wow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Really hitting every angle there.

[Dave Anthony]

Every.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The biology, a whole thing. The biology of a Mexican is inferior. No, the whole hold on.

[Dave Anthony]

Jose's murder happened at a peculiar time in Los Angeles. The police force was reduced due to World War II and public. God, what a time. The only positive about war.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, it's like that's what sucks about the wars. Now it's just drones and, yeah, you know, bombs. Yeah, man. When it boots on the ground, you'd be like, God damn it, there's a lot less cops, like, tell you.

[Dave Anthony]

Public confidence in the LAPD was also staggeringly low. The sentiment was everywhere, but particularly bad in working class neighborhoods where the people straight up did not respect the cops or their orders. Quote, openly challenging the authority of the police.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

If you can imagine a time in la, imagine like the two unmasked police cars who answered a Sunday evening call in July about a craps game in Boyle Heights.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, God.

[Dave Anthony]

Which for some reason was directly across the street from the LA County Hospital. Four plain close cops stormed in, flashed their badges, and broke it up. Quote, two of the spectators, a serviceman and his wife, protested loudly as the officers dragged gamblers back toward their unmarked cars. Hurling epithets at the police. The man and a woman urged the crowd of spectators to rescue their arrested comrades. A boisterous thong of mostly Mexican Americans charged the police, cutting them off from their one car with a radio. And the overwhelmed officers tried to arrest who. Whoever they could. But as soon as they managed to push someone into the police car, members of the crowd yanked open the door on the other side of the car and allowed the person to escape.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Come on.

[Dave Anthony]

That gets like a tunnel now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. There's a nice little lesson in there. Just, you can't flood the market like you used to. There's so many now, but it's still possible.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, now they also, there's video happening all the time, so if you. If you help someone get out of a car, they'll find out who you are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

During the melee, the riders doused the policeman with cold water and tore their clothing. And one officer's hand was slashed by a sharp instrument. New Mayor Fletcher Bowron won the election in part due to his plan to reorganize the police department.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I knew it. It's just never good.

[Dave Anthony]

The LAPD embraced the policy of moving the police from being a reactive enforcer of the law to a proactive force. Proactive policing is always the best.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Absolutely. No, stop those future crimes.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. This preventative enforcement brought about a type

[Gareth Reynolds]

of preventative policing is. If. If that doesn't scare you, well, it's

[Dave Anthony]

always just a way to stop brown.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

That's all.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Or just anyone. I mean, anyone who supports brown people or is trying to go for anything that affects the upper crust. You know, like people who are like, hey, flat cameras are help, but you're

[Dave Anthony]

just like, I don't even know what to say to people when they say that, well, don't you want safe streets? Not. Not like now, now.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not anymore.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm fine.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not anymore.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm good.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I don't want them anymore.

[Dave Anthony]

By the way, I've never been out on the street and had a problem in my town. I don't even care.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't know. I'll tell you what I've never wanted the police to be able to do is like, know what I'm talking about in my car. That's never been something where I'm like, oh, yeah, like if they start to realize what we're talking about when we drive by them, we're in a lot of trouble. Yeah, we are. Because every time you drive by a copy like, you fucking squealer.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, so the preventative enforcement brought about a type of racial profiling leading to worse relations with minorities, the majority of whom are Mexican or Mexican descent.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, right.

[Dave Anthony]

Shortly after Jose's death, the LAPD quote, conducted mass dragnets throughout the neighborhoods of Los Angeles, targeting those areas heavily populated by Mexicans and African Americans.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wonder if they'll find more crimes there. Seems like they might literally never stopped. No, just. It just, it just like, you know, it. It's just like breathing. It's like sometimes it's retracting a little bit and then only for it to have more expansion.

[Dave Anthony]

Shortly thereafter, they hauled in over 600 young men and women and the press hailed the police as heroes. We did it, quote. Hundreds of innocent young men and women from central and eastern LA were rounded up during the period, fingerprinted and booked. It was a show of force designed to reassure the white middle class that the wartime police force was indeed capable of maintaining law and order among the working class youth who were too poor, too dark skinned, or too aesthetically different for a mainstream LA preoccupied with wartime security and conformity to understand, you know,

[Gareth Reynolds]

white society and their law enforcement essentially are Karen's at a public pool asking strangers for id.

[Dave Anthony]

It's all Karening. It's all, it's all. Oh my God. You're fishing in my pond.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. How did you get here? I've never seen you around here before. What's your address?

[Dave Anthony]

You're not allowed to fish in this pond unless you live here. Do you?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love what I love now when you have full. Like when you, you. When someone is able to tell the cops what they're allowed to do and knows it. And the cops are like, all right. Eventually they're just like, it's 10 minutes. Then like, you sure you really have no interest. And I'm just like, all right, see you later.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, bye.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Bye.

[Dave Anthony]

Guess you read a book, Good friend. An example of a typical experience was that of a young man named Angel Padilla. He was rushed into an interrogation room where four. Four cops fired questions at him and pushed, but he refused to squeal. So the cops started slapping him and punching him. One punch knocked him off his chair, and the cop yelled, quote, sit down so we can hit you some more. So he did, and the cop kept going, quote, you Mexicans think you're. You're smart. You guys never fight. Fairy is just, like, off the charts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, my God. Oh, God Almighty. They do. They really lather themselves up when they're, like, beating someone. And then they, like, they. They flip a switch where they just are mad at how the person is receiving beatings, and then they beat them more. You're just like, man, there is like, we should just have, like, dads just ready to hug cops when they're getting like, come here, boy.

[Dave Anthony]

Come on right over here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I love you.

[Dave Anthony]

Come on, buddy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Come here. You're okay. You're okay. You're okay. You're okay. There you go. You're okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Daddy's here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Then he shoots him from within the hug.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Nine dads killed today trying to hug cops.

[Dave Anthony]

Another said, we ought to shoot every Mexican dog like you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, they do like to shoot dogs.

[Dave Anthony]

That is true. The head of foreign affairs, foreign relations for the sheriff's department testified before a grand jury that Mexican American youths.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here we go.

[Dave Anthony]

Shared the same, quote, careful, total disregard for human life that the Aztecs displayed in performing human sacrifices.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can we just give a cop credit for knowing what Aztecs are? Well, look, we dug deep into this one, and we have established that the Mexican has a very similar code of conduct to that of the sacrificial Aztec people. New Mexico believes that if they sacrifice a white, the son of God and the. The. The children of the sky will come down and bless them with a cup of eternal life that they will get by drinking the blood of their enemies from a skull of their mother. Pretty straightforward stuff.

[Dave Anthony]

If I could summarize. Their dirty, dirty people.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They are animals, which they still do. They still do the, like the way that they'll be. You know, you're just sometimes the, like. I mean, Jesse Waters on TV at night just being like, mexicans are dogs. Yeah, okay.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Are we really?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes, we are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's like, I'm being funny. Like, Fox News has tried to. And it's sort of working turn itself into a comedy channel.

[Dave Anthony]

It really is like, it's kind of

[Gareth Reynolds]

leaned into this idea like. And at night we're racist, but a little goofy. We're a little goofy racist at night. That's where we get on TV and we like, you know, we do zig heils and we make little jokes and we're like sexist Fox. We're like Bob Hope. In it past 6pm There's a lot

[Dave Anthony]

of people that cruise in. Just watch Gutville. They travel from out of town.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Really crazy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

A lot of comics just going on there and just kissing the ring.

[Dave Anthony]

Dead to me.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Kissing the ring. It helps their sales. I know a couple who are like, yeah, definitely. Like my soul. Yeah, yeah. It's not gonna feel good. By the way, that audience, they're dying.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Enjoy it.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, they're all done.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Enjoy it now. Enjoy your 60 year old

[Dave Anthony]

and continue on with his quote. All he knows and feels is a desire to kill or at least to let blood.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The they are sunrise. They are a country of sunrise. They believe they get a planet if they kill enough.

[Dave Anthony]

He added his testimony with quote, Whenever the Mexican element receives swift and pure punishment, he then and only then respects authority.

[Gareth Reynolds]

By the way, never worked even. Okay, let's say your premise is true. Never worked ever. No. No.

[Dave Anthony]

Ever.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Corporal punishment has ever led to the sophistication of society or the peace emerging.

[Dave Anthony]

And again, that was the head of foreign relations.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Whites cannot be comfortable. They can't. When they get comfy and they're fully driving the car, it's like they can't be uncomfortable either. No, they can't be. Well, their comfort is discomfort. They're always. No matter what, whether they're driving or someone else is giving backseat direct. No matter what it is like, I will drive.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. And they're right again. That was the head of foreign relations for the sheriff's department.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Had a foreign relations.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Correct.

[Dave Anthony]

On top of this situation, there were thousands of military men stationed in and around greater Los Angeles, which. Which added a very transient and unstable population into this mix. These men were often from the deep south or other areas of the country without a large or visible Mexican population. So they saw the American born.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Look at all these Aztecs.

[Dave Anthony]

They saw the American born Latino young men as a problem that needed to be dealt with, not Americans that they're supposed to protect.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. So this is before the south unburdened itself of racism.

[Dave Anthony]

That's correct.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right.

[Dave Anthony]

Since 1940, tensions had increased as soldiers and sailors temporarily stayed in LA on their way to deployment. Interesting quote. Mexican American use aggressively challenged the intrusion of white military men to their social spaces as they pass through LA by the thousands. Their failure to conform came from a direct refusal to accept the racialized norms of segregated America. Right. So they're, so they're not, they haven't learned the lesson yet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, right.

[Dave Anthony]

Because they're, they're. I mean, it's such a heavy Mexican American population in la. It's not like other places where a minority is a small, small group. It's a big group.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

And so they're like, go yourself. Yeah, I'm doing my thing over here. I'm good. Go yourself. So that led to a certain attitude and how they dressed in their attitudes became like, they're like, see, look at it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right, yeah. Right, right. So it's self fulfilling in a way. They're like, they have problems. They, they seem to have beef with us.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes, yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Not sure what it is.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know what's going on with that, but they're not. Right. So they danced to jazz.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They were disgusting. Just like the Aztecs.

[Dave Anthony]

Wore colorful clothes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Ah, no.

[Dave Anthony]

And refused to back down to the oppressive whiteness that dominated the city.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So, I mean, okay, so now I'm starting to come around to the, the white side a little bit. Now I'm hearing the way the, the. I didn't know they were wearing colors.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. So it's a bit aggressive. Agree. That and jazz.

[Dave Anthony]

Thank you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Name a more violent music than jazz.

[Dave Anthony]

I can't think of one.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Just getting all rowdy, you know, you go, excuse me.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They go home, they toss on a jazz album. Right. Next thing you know, they're wearing a bunch of red and it's not good.

[Dave Anthony]

Slashing throats.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. It's just, it's a slippery slope.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. They became known derogatorily as pachucos. And it started as a slur, but then they embraced it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. That way. And by the way, that's the way to go. We don't like that. So when you all do that to our slurs, that is tough for us. Okay. Do not take the power back from us.

[Dave Anthony]

It always works the best.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's just great. We're like, now hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. Yeah, that's our word for you.

[Dave Anthony]

It's like queer. Yeah, yeah, we'll take that.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

No, that's one of my face.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is so true.

[Dave Anthony]

It is. It's the way you handle it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You got to embrace. It's so funny. When they're like, I heard a couple of them queer saying queer the other day.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, we queering it up over here.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm worried about the power. We gotta come up with new words. They're gonna be hard when we burned all those books, huh?

[Dave Anthony]

And then there was also yellow journalism

[Gareth Reynolds]

which creates, let's throw that in the mix, hysteria. Good. So.

[Dave Anthony]

And so the Pachucos aren't just talking back to all whites. They, they'd fight them to protect their culture and social spaces. Like the, the Pachucos are like proud of what they are and where they are and they'll fucking fight you if you encroach on their shit. So with the yellow journalism, the threat of Pachuco's is insanely over exaggerated. Quote, so few Mexican Americans actually fit the stereotype of the Pachuco. That for all practical purposes, the public discourse on the so called Pachuco menace reveals more about public anxieties over assertive non white use than it does about an actual Mexican American subculture.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a little how Bill Maher views Islam. It's one of those absolutely Mark Twain award winning Bill Mar views Islam.

[Dave Anthony]

If. I wonder if it's like a like cholo, which is like, like it's a very specific thing. It's not a huge thing. Yeah, but it's out there and they fudgeing love their culture. Like you know, so I wonder if it's like that level of like percentage of the population.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, it's also, you know, it is, it's, you know, connected to how racist are the whites.

[Dave Anthony]

Not at all.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So if the more racist we are, the more that you know, like racist. No, not racist. Sorry. Proud.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes, thank you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're a bunch of proud boys.

[Dave Anthony]

Pachuco actually had multiple definitions, some totally contradictory. In LA it meant heck from El Paso, but in El Paso it met Danny from la.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's gonna be. That's tough in El Paso. Look at Pachuco. You must be looking in a mirror. Pachuco, you're the Pachuco.

[Dave Anthony]

Never forget Pachuco. Go to El Paso new and stand up. And that's where I found out. I'm like, wait, you guys hate la? You guys hate la? Mexicans are like, yeah, damn it. I'm like, what's going on?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Sometimes when you've gotta like you, you've gotta, you're like, oh, what kind of racism is everyone practicing here?

[Dave Anthony]

They're like, they make us look bad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm like, all right, yeah, no, I'm, I'm with You guys, I've never been a fan of them. That's. They've been very quite difficult.

[Dave Anthony]

So the suits that they wore became the main object of hatred against the pachucos, known as zoot suits.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who's wearing those?

[Dave Anthony]

The pachucos.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The pachucos are wearing zoot suits.

[Dave Anthony]

So zoot suits came out colorful. They came out of black culture. Yeah, Jazz. Black jazz culture, Malcolm X era.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right?

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. And probably with the pachucos from El Paso via the drug trade. So that's where the mixing happened. Where there was jazz, there's drugs. And in pre war America, those drugs probably came across the border. So that's fucking great. Yeah, that's where I'd want to be if you. Yeah. In la. Even though the press went crazy about the zoot suited up angry youth, pretty much. Now we think it was less than 5% of Mexican Americans who would dressed that way in. In a flashy suit. And it's probably even less than that. But jazz was popular with the kids, which by the 40s was demonized and racialized so that the whites used it as a signifier for crime, wild sex and drug use.

[Gareth Reynolds]

God, it's so great that rock and roll. They were like, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, that was a blow.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's go back to jazz.

[Dave Anthony]

And I, I have never done this, but I, I was going to do some episodes on the different reactions to the like ragtime jet. It's all the same. Yeah, Rock. Every single time. It's the same. They lose. Yes. Rap. They. Whites lose their minds. When a new. When a new type of music becomes popular.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, they just lose their minds.

[Dave Anthony]

It's crazy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's hysterical. I mean, it's, it's just, it's. I, I just like, again, there are, you know, there's people, you know, who. You're like, this person should be in therapy and stuff. If you're talking about races that just need to get into some, like, couples counseling, like get the whites on a couch together for a minute and be like, let's get it out there, what's going on?

[Dave Anthony]

But it's not, it's not all whites.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No.

[Dave Anthony]

It's very specifically driven by religious, conservative whites. That's where it always starts.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Right. But the whites, I mean whites, the

[Dave Anthony]

rest of the whites don't help.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They've really. They'll fail easily.

[Dave Anthony]

William Davenport wrote in Collier, quote, it's a magazine, I think.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

The zoot suit is strictly Filipino houseboy on his day off. Go ahead.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And what does that even mean?

[Dave Anthony]

Mull it over.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What does that even mean?

[Dave Anthony]

Just think about it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Filipino houseboy on his day. Are we anti Filipino houseboys? That sounds like a pretty fine.

[Dave Anthony]

I think so. I think. I think they're. No, but I think they're saying, like, he is not well behaved on his day off or.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, it's called the day off. Nobody is give it a day off. You're a piece of. You're supposed to be. Day offs are for bong rips.

[Dave Anthony]

The Dollop is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one website platform. It's going to help you stand out and succeed online. And that's what we both do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's never been better. Online wise, we're both doing extremely well. And while we credit a lot of that to talent, we also need a Robin to the Batman. That is our talents now. Robin never having Squarespace.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I don't know what happened there, but yeah, I just want to take

[Gareth Reynolds]

a minute to apologize to Squarespace for a bunch of that.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, you should push a man as a man floundering. Yep. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. Consultations to events to experiences, showcase your offerings. Customizable website designed to attract clients, grow your business. The whole everything.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The way that we talk about it around Dollop HQ is we always say that Squarespace is kind of Batman and we're. We're two Riddlers. And they're. It's.

[Dave Anthony]

It's not what we're doing. Look, you can get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments. We both use Squarespace. It's both of our websites. Mine has cobwebs because I don't update it, but yours is updating all the time. And then we have our Dollop sources with Squarespace. We got the dolop.com where you can get tickets for a very soon to be announced tour.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes, yes, yes. Go there. So you know what it is? We're like Squarespace and us. We're like the Spider man memes. We're all pointing at each other like,

[Dave Anthony]

hey, who's who here again, it's great space. I just want to apologize for what is going on.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You can do merch. They have SEO tools.

[Dave Anthony]

Garrett's having a breakdown.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's what's going on 100%. It has nothing to do with anything other than some internal stuff that I'm not processing properly.

[Dave Anthony]

Head to squarespace.com dollop for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DOLLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com dollop for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code dial up to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. And Gareth Dollop is also brought to you by Rocket Money. Look, Rocket Money is going to save you money. Rocket Money keeps track of what's going on with your credit cards. You signed up for all these subscriptions and Rocket Money lays them all out for you because it gets very complicated. Some are yearly. Right. Some are monthly. You just forgot about them.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave, let me jump in here and talk to the people listening who haven't used Rocket Money. You're a joke and everybody's laughing at you. Okay? Go ahead and save yourself some money because everybody is laughing at you.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. All right. Okay. That just seemed a little.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, but you know, we've both talked about the subscriptions we've forgotten about. But it's not just subscriptions. They're gonna help you. Rocket Money helps you plan your future financially. You got better Internet.

[Dave Anthony]

I did. I got 300 bucks off my Internet per year by just having Rocket Money. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You sended some guy named Don into a restaurant to beat up someone because they didn't do you right. Those are over. Rocket Money's the bruiser.

[Dave Anthony]

Rocket Money's the bruiser. And they saved me 300 bucks. They just negotiated and then they're like, hey, here's the deal. And I was like, yes. And I also got a free router. A new router update. So it was all. Yeah, it was all good. We had a recommend. We both found many subscriptions that we forgot about. We keep finding them. I just found one the other day. They never stop. You sign up, you forget you did that seven day window ends and you're like, gah. And then you totally forget about it next month.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're like, lose your mind. Yeah. Look, we don't have time to have little things like this set us off in this day and age, okay?

[Dave Anthony]

That's right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let Rocket Money take this off your plate. Otherwise you're going to be in a post office screaming about some free trial you thought you needed.

[Dave Anthony]

Ragamoney is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. [e-mail] Dollop that's RocketMoney.com $RocketMoney.com

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hold on, Dave. They want to send in the Rocket Money Rocketeers to sing the jingle. Go ahead, girls. Rocket money. Rocky money. Rocket money. Go ahead and save yourself some pocket money.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay, this is audio only, so you actually don't need to do the miming waving the girls in because I'm not. Well, I can see you singing. I don't at any point think girls came in.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Hey, would you stop what you're doing right now? Really worried about it. There's some kids out there who love to believe in magic still.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth the Dollop is also Garrett the Dollop is also brought to you by Nutrafol. We both use Nutrafol. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand used by over 1.5 million people. I was using it for a while. People started complimenting my hair. My. My sweet, sweet, tough tuft. And some people think it's a wig. It's not a wig. This is what happens. My wife thinks it looks better. My hairdresser thinks it looks better. All my other lovers think it looks better. All seven.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, it's true. I started taking it after I saw Dave's results and love it. Love the results. Huge fan. Take it every day. So I don't know what you're waiting for. It's all natural.

[Dave Anthony]

Some people think I'm a dog. I have so much.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, a lot of people think that we just shaved a dog a lot.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, but that's not. That's my hair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's just Dave's hair.

[Dave Anthony]

And Nutrafol now has Nutrival men for guys 18 to 49 and a new Nutrafol Men 50 plus, which is the first product of its kind, specifically made for men over 50, or as they call them, Reynolds. Start Nutrafol and make the hat optional. Visit nutriful.com and enter promo code the dollop for $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. Find out why Nutriful is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code the dollop. That's nutriful.com promo code the Dollop. The trend tested what was deemed safe to wear in public at the time,

[Gareth Reynolds]

safe to wear in public.

[Dave Anthony]

So it mixed gender styles and it made brash statements about the flamboyance in in, which is. It's a drab, post depression now, World War II era. So it's. It's. Everything's drag.

[Gareth Reynolds]

People didn't really freak out over Studio 54. They were kind of like, whatever. But it was second. The non whites are wearing like funny suits. It's like. Excuse me, hold on. A little big, isn't it?

[Dave Anthony]

So In World War II there are rigid laws against over consumption of everything, including fabric. So it's, it's, it is based on like rationing, sacrifice and rationing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, right. Quote, by the way. Can you imagine?

[Dave Anthony]

No, no.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We, we could meet once a week.

[Dave Anthony]

We could, we could eat you. We could literally never do a world war type type ration ever again. No, we are too. We are so individualized.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's crazy. Crazy.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote. The zoot produced a striking silhouette exaggerating the upper male body by highlighting wide shoulders and tapering dramatically down to what Davenport described as a girlish waist snug as a pre war girdle. So it's like a triangle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Imagine if Tim Burton designed America.

[Dave Anthony]

It's a top triangle.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

From the midsection down. It had more of an overt symbol of female fashion in the length and shape of the jacket skirt. The jacket flared from the waist to the knees. It could be worn by men or women. On men. The jacket hid the flowing pleated pants that flared at the knees and angled dramatically down to a tight fit around the ankles. A jazz man quote at the ankles, the smaller the hipper you were.

[Gareth Reynolds]

At the ankles, the smaller the hipper you were. Right, so you want to have tight ankles.

[Dave Anthony]

Tight, tight ankles.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Look, it doesn't sound comfortable.

[Dave Anthony]

No, it sounds terrible. But it's the look. Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And everyone's like, oh my God.

[Dave Anthony]

Fashion is not about comfort.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, never has been. Look at us.

[Dave Anthony]

Look at you. Not us. Look at you.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Can't really see me

[Dave Anthony]

upon seeing. Certainly white upon seeing the zoot suit. Or as its west coast.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Here we go.

[Dave Anthony]

Brother. Was known as the drape.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The drape.

[Dave Anthony]

Two journalists curtained. Two journalists called it, quote, rather a remarkable spectacle and the oddest phenomenon of the new brand of California nightlife. So it just looks to whites. It's like what in the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And also it's just like, like this, this idea of like you're segregating improperly.

[Dave Anthony]

You're not supposed to be the ones having fun.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Excuse me, Excuse me. We were very clear. Don't go to our restaurants. But also don't you create a whole

[Dave Anthony]

culture which now you're supposed to be over there looking poor.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Please go over there and eat beans quietly. Like we would love.

[Dave Anthony]

Eastern zooters.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, no.

[Dave Anthony]

Tried to outdo each other with the most eye catching suit. From a conservative sharkskin gray to an Ostentatious lime green and bright oranges. Or mixed plaids with chalk stripes that were known as ripe stripes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Those colors shouldn't be mixing.

[Dave Anthony]

Malcolm X said his first zoot suit was quote, just wild. It was a sky blue coat that pinched his waist and flared out below his knees.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's a funny picture given that.

[Dave Anthony]

It is really funny.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He's like such a. Such a sort of intense looking figure. But then he's also just like, I'm going to go out as a kite tonight. I'll be wearing a kite.

[Dave Anthony]

What's his name? Spike Lee had a zoot suit dance number in the Spike Lee movie. Which is one of the worst, one of the worst off putting scenes I've ever seen a film. But you know, whatever. Yeah, but I remember it for how bad that that was. It was just like all of a sudden you're like, what are you doing?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I mean, again, it, like you just gotta hand it to, to the white power structure that constantly finds ways to be like, well, our days are numbered.

[Dave Anthony]

Just looking for things to be mad.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Always. Well, now they're wearing big suits. No. And I think so.

[Dave Anthony]

I mean, we really are just Karens.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Crazy. Just at the pool, like, no splashing. Excuse me.

[Dave Anthony]

No, man, when you get into. When you get locked into a Karen algorithm on Instagram, it's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You got to get out. You got to get out of that cable.

[Dave Anthony]

It just doesn't.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's a hole. You got to get out of it. You got to get out of it.

[Dave Anthony]

It's crazy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, what's crazy is how much Karen's love Mexican food and they're just like going into Mexican restaurants like, can I see your papers? Because they said wet burrito.

[Dave Anthony]

There's also a whole sub genre of them getting mad at people fishing at Ponds. It's so crazy. That's just.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now that you are deep, you're deep. I mean, Karen's at Ponds. Oh my God. That sounds like a subject allowed to fish here.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, it's either. It's either. I didn't know that. I'll stop. Or, or, oh, no, I live here. No, you don't. Why don't you think I live here? Not because you're black.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, they're very careful there. I like when they start filming. Yes. Like what? What are you doing right back? Yeah, you're being a racist psychopath. I'm also filming the black man. Okay, but you just said the N word on his footage.

[Dave Anthony]

It's so great when they get up at it. Getting arrested though. Yeah, I mean, it's so great.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I saw one where. Because there was the guy, some guy in Vegas and like there was like some dude was rapping on the street in Vegas and as some dude's getting arrested who was giving him. He just starts doing a freestyle about how that guy's going to jail tonight. Like you're going to jam. I can't remember how it goes but that now that that song will always play. Under those. So good. Oh no. Because you're going to jail because you're going to jail.

[Dave Anthony]

So good. In March 1942, the War Production Board issued Order L85, which established the maximum measurements for men's suits and pants.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh my God. Restricted the fashion police. The actual fashion police existed.

[Dave Anthony]

That's correct.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh my God.

[Dave Anthony]

And restricted the availability of materials.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Do you have any idea why I pulled you over? May I take a look at your insignificant. Please. There we go.

[Dave Anthony]

It's a four.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's hold on a second. Waist. Why this leaves so wide.

[Dave Anthony]

I'm heavy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're an inch over, sir. Put your hands behind your back. Where are your hands by the way? Deep in these sleeves.

[Dave Anthony]

I've been working out.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Too bad. You should have thought about that before you wasted all this fabric. You're going downtown. He's not even in the suit anymore. He snuck out of it.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay. So they restrict the availability of material for civilian use. The result was men's fashion became more conservative.

[Gareth Reynolds]

So it worked.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes. Out were double breasted suits, wide lapels, vests, pleated pants with cuffs and overlapping waistbands, and especially the very not white zoot suit. Retail stores now won't sell them. You had to find enough fabric on your own and make them on your own.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sure.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, hipsters in the east donned pants with the rise so high that the waist came up to just a few inches below their armpits.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh my God. Circle time.

[Dave Anthony]

Cinched with a belt or white suspenders.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They literally Urkeled.

[Dave Anthony]

Yes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

How are you? Did I do that?

[Dave Anthony]

It's got to be just under your titty.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Titty pants. And before I measure your waist, what's your tit width?

[Dave Anthony]

On the front of the pants were 2 to 3 inch wide pleats.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is so awesome. To be like. Credit, please.

[Dave Anthony]

The pleats allowed up to 34 inches of material to balloon out at the knees.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What?

[Dave Anthony]

So they're pleated? So they're pleated. So that then it can get bigger as it goes down.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right. It kind of is just like a titty dress.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. That's what I'd call It, yeah, kind

[Gareth Reynolds]

of like cocktail dress.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, I, I, yeah. 34 inches at the knees.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's what I am.

[Dave Anthony]

Which then dropped down toward a 6 inch ankle and finished off in a cuff 3 to 5 inches deep. Wow. This prompted one fashion critic to comment that the zoot pants looked like two upended baby blimps.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, that's, Come on now. Yeah, makes a fair little sense, but that is what you get for trying to tell people what to wear.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, if you, if you, if you're selling zoot suits in a store and then you make that illegal, they're going to make their own zoot suits and now they're going to go hog wild with the like super. Now take it all directions.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Christ. These are just angry aprons. The hell's going on?

[Dave Anthony]

But it's not just the suits. And both eastern and western versions included an extremely long, thick linked gold plated watch chain drooping to the knee from the vest to pants pockets.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That sounds insane.

[Dave Anthony]

You know what's funny is my, my, all my memories. Well, there's Cab Calloway, but all my memories go back to cartoons.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Some of it feels cartoony.

[Dave Anthony]

There's, I remember there was like a wolf.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that's what I, that's what I've

[Dave Anthony]

been picturing the wolf. Yes. Which is also a little bit of racist if you think about it. Is it? Well, yeah. Bad boy wolf. Yeah. A little bit sweet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, like I told you, my first crush was made Marion.

[Dave Anthony]

Excuse me?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, I told you, I told you that my first crush was the fox, Maid Marion from Robin Hood, the Disney one. That was the first woman I was attracted to and by the way, quite attracted to her.

[Dave Anthony]

Did you masturbate to her?

[Gareth Reynolds]

No. But I definitely saw us ending up together if it didn't work out with Robin Hood. She was very, very aesthetically pleasing. She's also a real sweetheart. I mean, to, you know, again, I'm

[Dave Anthony]

not a real sweetheart.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She was an absolute sweetheart.

[Dave Anthony]

She's not real.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I, I, I'm not gonna, you know, we're not gonna go into that.

[Dave Anthony]

I think we are.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, but she was very, very attractive and I'm sure she still is. And if the, if the Maid Marian from the Disney Robin Hood cartoon is still out there, call me. I'd love to cram it.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. Okay, so there's a bunch of like wolves.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Have you seen the, Are you looking

[Dave Anthony]

at Maid Marion that are in zoot suits and cartoons?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, yeah, they, and they are fangy

[Dave Anthony]

and, but so this is these predatory wolves. I Mean, the. The timeline on this is. These are from, like, the 40s, so. Yeah, it would make sense based on what we're talking about, right?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

So the big bad wolf.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yep, yep. And you could tell they got those fangs and just. Just so we have it, you know, this is. This is what I'm talking about right there. Check that out.

[Dave Anthony]

I've never been more worried about you than the fact that you were into her.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You don't think she's hot? You don't think that's a hot cartoon fox?

[Dave Anthony]

No, I mean, she's got pretty eyes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She's got great eyes, but that's a fox. That's what I'm saying.

[Dave Anthony]

You could have so easily been Mr. Hands. Come on. You were probably so close to going down that path and something.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, by the way, look at this.

[Dave Anthony]

Something like just you banging fox.

[Gareth Reynolds]

People are having. People are. Look. You tell me that's not hot. No, the Internet's having fun with her nowadays. She's getting hotter and hotter.

[Dave Anthony]

I bet you can find videos.

[Gareth Reynolds]

She's had her lips done.

[Dave Anthony]

I bet you can find videos of her getting banged. Are you gonna do that?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Let's get back to this.

[Dave Anthony]

I bet there. I bet there's dirty. Dirty one. I mean, there's dirty ones of all the cartoon characters. So there's gotta. There's got to be dudes out there like you who are. Let me just say this. Try to be politically correct. Totally in the head.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm not finding.

[Dave Anthony]

Does that make sense?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm not finding any Maid Marion porn.

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, I bet it's there. I guarantee you. You know what?

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, I'm not. I'm probably not the best guy looking for porn.

[Dave Anthony]

Guys, go ahead and start a Reddit thread for Gareth to go and look at. Is it Maid Marion? Is that her name? Maiden Marion. Fox porn. Because he's gonna need.

[Gareth Reynolds]

More like late Marion.

[Dave Anthony]

He's gonna need something to get through these nights, you know what I mean?

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's been hot here. Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

You find one.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, look at that.

[Dave Anthony]

She understands Big jugs, man.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okie dokie. I probably should get out of there because I'm actually. Lines are blurring between. Between nature and man. Oh, dear. Oh, boy.

[Dave Anthony]

There's no way there is not a picture of her with them out those tatas.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to do with furry titties, but I'm sure I'd figure it out. Take that, Robin Hood. She goes back to Robin Hood. Last night I had too much Meat in the Forest ended up banging a road comic.

[Dave Anthony]

Gareth August. That's the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And look, I cannot think of a better way to start than my closet.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

That's why I love shopping at Quint's. Quint's is all about the fewer better prices. You know that their clothes are made with premium materials. They just last. And they're designed to become the ones you reach for day after day, which you do.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Dave, my special coming out pretty soon, all quints on the road. We have a little closet rack in the back of the van that we use. You and I are rocking lots of quince things hanging true. You cannot beat quince. Cannot beat it.

[Dave Anthony]

I was out in the heat all weekend at my kids baseball games and I was fully linen, all quince.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You were rocking that linen look the other day and we were talking about it it unprompted.

[Dave Anthony]

I had Quint's pants on. That's how I do it. I'm a quincer.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Sexy quince pants on.

[Dave Anthony]

And look, quints. It's the go to for everything from hotel quality bedding and bath essentials to premium cookware and travel must haves. It's not just clothes. That's what I'm saying.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They're doing everything.

[Dave Anthony]

So look, upgrade your everyday. Download the Quints app for app exclusive offers or go to quints.com dollop get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com dollop yeah, as a small

[Gareth Reynolds]

business owner, sometimes it feels like no matter how much planning you do, there's always surprises like an urgent, expensive repair. But here's a surprise you will like with progressive. Small business owners save 13% on their commercial auto insurance when they pay in full. So enjoy a surprise for once. Get a quote in as little as 8 minutes@progressive commercial.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts not available in all states or situations. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. Last year I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself. When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere. Living a busy life, navigating a long Distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather. Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone. Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist. Today at talkspace.com save $80 with code [e-mail]

[Dave Anthony]

okay. Okay. So you also needed thin shoes. The thinner the better.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That seems like a bad call.

[Dave Anthony]

There's no history. We don't know why it was cool. We don't know why it was cool to have incredibly thin shoes. Sounds horrible, but Cab Calloway once bragged that, quote, his shoes were so thin that he could roll them up at a ball.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is such a strange brag.

[Dave Anthony]

I don't know.

[Gareth Reynolds]

But if Cab Calloway, I mean, if

[Dave Anthony]

there's anyone I'm gonna listen to on

[Gareth Reynolds]

this is Cap Gallery, he could roll his shoes in a ball.

[Dave Anthony]

But I don't know if that means, like, are they like. Like slipper type?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm picturing aqua socks. Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

Aqua socks.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Pool socks.

[Dave Anthony]

Pool shoes, pool shoe.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a very strange podcast. Suddenly.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, no, because. Because the. The shoes that I. El pachuco zoocho. But they just look like regular shoes. They look like fancy shoes here. So I don't know what the thin part is. Okay, okay. Anyway, the show, the shoe trend was the opposite. In la, there was not thin shoes, fat shoes east, it's thin shoes west, the boys wanted platforms, the thickest shoes, the thickest soles, the heaviest shoes possible. Nice, big old shoes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Again, I'm not trying to go against the culture of the time, but how about just regular shoes?

[Dave Anthony]

No, you got to get big.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I would like shoes that, like, you know, shoes that are nice, that. I want invisible shoes.

[Dave Anthony]

Some historians believe that this was because they wanted the shoes quote to serve as counterweights that would anchor them down while swinging their dance partners in the air.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now. Okay, now we're talking.

[Dave Anthony]

That sounds dumb. Wait, that sounds not true.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Now I'm getting it because it would.

[Dave Anthony]

It would. It would impair dancing if you had big shoes.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, but you just, like, you get on the dance floor, you get your buddy to put, like, concrete in your shoes. All of a sud sudden you're like, bottom heavy. You're like £100 down there. You could sling a woman all over you take. Made Marion, you're spinning her around. Next thing you know.

[Dave Anthony]

Okay.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Who knows what happens? Excuse me, I'm on Reddit, I can't talk right now.

[Dave Anthony]

But the cops believe they wanted heavy shoes so they could use them as weapons during gang fights.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yes. As opposed to, say, weapons, of course.

[Dave Anthony]

Taking the time to take off your shoes and hit a guy.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, of course. Why not? Why carry a knife when you can use your shoes?

[Dave Anthony]

Bobby Garcia, quote, if you got stopped by a cop. They used to call our shoes deadly weapons.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, it's gonna be easy to get a lot of convictions.

[Dave Anthony]

We were trying to help the country and they were calling us Nazis.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, that is. Yeah. Yep. And I mean, again, perfect. Perfect. When you make shoes a weapon, you just literally, you're going downtown for what? Possession of shoes. What was I supposed to wear? Step in the.

[Dave Anthony]

Carson. Can I measure your shoes? Son, put the shoes on the scale there.

[Gareth Reynolds]

There we are. Oh, my God.

[Dave Anthony]

£4.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, dear. What are we doing?

[Dave Anthony]

Kid, you could have killed someone tonight. Girls also had a modified zoot suit, short black skirts and hose with the broad shoulders shouldered and longer coat of the boys costume. Quote. The girls are sometimes known as puchukas or slick chicks and Glory. In the role the white Angelenos could just not understand. Nor could they accept that these working class brown kids got their flashy clothes, or even just money in general without stealing it.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, you know, there's. This is the truth. They are just like, they're cool. Stop them.

[Dave Anthony]

But it's not just that. This is the why does everybody have a big TV argument.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What's this?

[Dave Anthony]

Oh, these people, they can barely get by. Right. They complain about that they don't have money, but they have a big tv. And you're like, yeah, they actually want to have some parts of life that they enjoy. And if there's one thing you would buy, one thing you would spend extra money on if you're poor, it's a quality television. Because now you can have. Have endless enjoyment. Yes. And be distracted at home. But it's. That's. This. That's.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Anthony]

That's. How dare they. And they're like, this is the thing they have. This is their one thing.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, it's. And then now that. That distills down to like, they're buying soda on food stamps.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah, that's exactly right.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Excuse me.

[Dave Anthony]

Poor people. Is that Orange Crush?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. Like, they were just like, no, I'm sorry. You'll have broccoli for June juice. Okay. Allow me to live inside your and decide everything.

[Dave Anthony]

Are you not eating rice and beans? Can I. Oh, it's a steak. What? It's a what?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Excuse me?

[Dave Anthony]

It's a what?

[Gareth Reynolds]

I don't think you're prepared for what's about to happen physically to your body.

[Dave Anthony]

Poor. You're poor.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You're not going to handle this properly.

[Dave Anthony]

Take you eat old gloves that the government gives you

[Gareth Reynolds]

everything that I. A book. Aren't you supposed to be thinking that's free. Go write a book on your roof.

[Dave Anthony]

When LAPD frisked 18 year old Johnny Matuse, who had no criminal record before the Sleepy Lagoon case, they found 89 in his pocket and refused to believe that he had earned it again. How could this kid have money? How could he have money?

[Gareth Reynolds]

There's a lot of money you're carrying around. So it's 250. Would you get it? Yes.

[Dave Anthony]

Excuse me? 250. What?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Who'd you rob? I just. I worked for a couple weeks.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. Okay. All right. Just seems like a lot of money to be walking.

[Dave Anthony]

A lot of money. Well, we're taking you downtown.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, look, we have a reason to search your car. The canine hit it.

[Dave Anthony]

Quote, the arresting officers tried to beat a confession out of him until he passed out. Well, again, we shouldn't really call it passing out. It's like going beaten unconscious.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Well, going n. N. Well, you know what?

[Dave Anthony]

Don't walk around with money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. This whole. Again, it's a real gray area as to who's right on this one.

[Dave Anthony]

You're gonna tell me you got a pocket full of money in big shoes and you're not out there doing crime?

[Gareth Reynolds]

Unfortunately, he won't be able to confess for a little while. We killed him.

[Dave Anthony]

So his fault.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That's a confession?

[Dave Anthony]

When. When Henry Levos was 17. That's the guy at the very beginning who got beaten with his girlfriend.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

Was 17. Police arrested him and his 15 year old brother for driving a stolen vehicle. The police refused to believe that the car belonged to their dad. And the brothers were held in jail for three days until their father could prove that he actually owned the car. Yeah, for sake. It's the old joke, driving while black. But this is driving while Mexican in la. Yeah, it's just at least.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I mean, again, it is. You know what?

[Dave Anthony]

At least we don't do this anymore.

[Gareth Reynolds]

No, I was just gonna say it. I mean there, you know, for. For classes or races where it's just like, yeah, you. Guilty until proven innocent. That is always the way.

[Dave Anthony]

Always. I told you that I have a cop That a LAPD guy that lives on my corner. He's like a detective and he, he pulled up one night and immediately got pulled over by the sheriffs. And he's Mexican. And so he. This year the sheriffs leave and I go, I go, what's up? And he goes. Happens all the time. Wow. He goes into his house. It's sundown town. There's still sundown towns, baby. Whites had a visceral reaction when they saw a zoot suit. Yeah, of course. It was the symbolism.

[Gareth Reynolds]

My wife's wet, he must die.

[Dave Anthony]

It was the symbolism of money, sex and attitude. And it wasn't cheap. Between a thousand to 2500 in today's money.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Oh, bad.

[Dave Anthony]

So rich and middle class white saw it as a waste of precious funds.

[Gareth Reynolds]

You know, again, it's the big tv. It's the big tv and it's always the like in this timeline we're on now where you're just like frame people over what they're buying when we are talking about bunkered out billionaires.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah. And you're like, you, you shouldn't be able to get pop with your food stamps.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Then work. You need more of a grind.

[Dave Anthony]

And meanwhile, Elon Musk is snorting dried up Thai boys. Many the best.

[Gareth Reynolds]

They are very dry, a little nose jerky. Yeah, for sure.

[Dave Anthony]

Many questioned just exactly how young men of color got enough money to buy these suits. And since the zoot suit used material resources that patriotic citizens were foregoing for the war effort, wearing one was seen as a total risk. Total disregard for community of thrift and sacrifice.

[Gareth Reynolds]

We're in our I'm not racist, but era which has found.

[Dave Anthony]

I found an excuse to be terribly racist.

[Gareth Reynolds]

I'm not racist, but should these people be having suits like that?

[Dave Anthony]

We get it a lot. We also get that this a lot right now with cars. There's a whole car culture thing and it really upsets people. One social psychologist said putting on a zoot suit was like putting on the fans version of a sports jersey. But in this case, the members of the team were outcasts and villains.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Wow.

[Dave Anthony]

That sums it all up.

[Gareth Reynolds]

That is such. That's like very well put.

[Dave Anthony]

Yeah.

[Gareth Reynolds]

The. Yes. The whites viewed that as the away jersey at their home game.

[Dave Anthony]

That's right. Exactly. So soon. I mean like a Raiders jersey, there's no different. If you see a Raiders jersey, like 50 chance I get killed.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Right, right, right. Of course.

[Dave Anthony]

So soon after the big public crackers

[Gareth Reynolds]

have really leaned into it though. Like, like before they go to halftime, you'll see like, some guy, you're like, jesus Christ, his skeleton face is bleeding. Like, what? How did he do that? Raiders are 5 and 1.

[Dave Anthony]

I'll never forget when the news came out one day I heard that it was when the Raiders are playing at LA Coliseum and someone had bitten off someone else's nose. And then they're like, it was a Raiders fan. They bit off the nose. I'm like, yeah, you don't have to go into that part. Like, everybody gets that. Of course it was a Raiders fan.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. By the way, the owner, Al Davis, didn't have a nose either.

[Dave Anthony]

So that was. Well, Lisa's son knows how to. How to cut hair.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. No, I mean, honestly, I always wondered what would happen if Al Davis, John Gruden and, you know, thankfully they've been able to prove that through new Raider

[Dave Anthony]

ownership so soon after the big public.

[Gareth Reynolds]

What if the Beach Boys banged Al Davis?

[Dave Anthony]

It's not even. It's like, there's no bowl cut in America. That is more crazy. It's the.

[Gareth Reynolds]

And I think he's like. I think he's dating a Maid Marian. Like, I think he's like, got. I think he's like some.

[Dave Anthony]

Well, he's a billionaire.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Anthony]

You get to be the saddest looking weirdo alive and it doesn't matter. So soon after the big public crackdown, the cops went in front of every camera to tell the city that they had found the murders of Jose Diaz, the suited youths who lived on 38th street, and they arrested them. And that is the end of part one.

[Gareth Reynolds]

It's a good feeling. I mean, white pride is at a low in many ways. And I think stuff like this is going to get us right back where

[Dave Anthony]

we need to because, huh, you know, we are. We really are. The Protestant theme of anti fun is so horrible for the world.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Yeah. It's just like sick control. I mean, we just are, you know, we're just like. We're just, just. It's crazy. It has not stopped. It is. We are humming right now. But it's just this, like, Steve, we live in Stephen Miller's wet dream because he's allowed to police anyone who he feels like stands in the way of his white loser topia. Being able to exist and you just see it everywhere. Wherever there's pain and screaming and people, you know of who are brown people are being treated indiscriminately as criminals because Stephen Miller was hated his whole life until he finally achieved where he got to now.

[Dave Anthony]

And he is literally the spiritual ancestor of bin Laden.

[Gareth Reynolds]

He looks like the guy who came up with the Salem if they float, they're a witch. If they drown, they weren't like. He literally looks like the guy who's like, that's pretty perfect. He was probably like jacking off while he was quilling it on a scroll.

[Dave Anthony]

Sources first of all, written by Josh Androwski Murder at the Sleepy Lagoon by Eduardo Abregon Pagan, Colliers Magazine, Los Angeles examiner and the LA Times Los Angeles Times is what it's called in the biz.

[Gareth Reynolds]

Every day as a small business owner feels like solving a puzzle. One moment you're cruising along and the next there's a shipping snag that has you scrambling. But here's a surprise you will like with Progressive Small business owners save 13% on their commercial auto insurance when they pay in full. So go ahead, surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as 8 minutes@progressive commercial.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates discounts not available in all states or situations. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. Last year I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself. When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere. Living a busy life, navigating a long distance relationship, becoming a first stepfather, Talkspace made all of those journeys possible. I could speak with my therapist in the office. I could speak with my therapist in the comfort of my home. I was never alone own. Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to talkspace. Com. Match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace. Com. Save $80 with code SPACE80 at talkspace. Com.