Cancel Your Fear of Dying: How to Live Fully by Facing Death | Elena Brower

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show

Episode: Cancel Your Fear of Dying: How to Live Fully by Facing Death

Guest: Elena Brower
Date: August 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, deeply personal conversation between Dr. Gabrielle Lyon and Elena Brower—author, poet, meditation teacher, hospice volunteer, and candidate for Buddhist chaplaincy—about confronting the fear of dying, living fully through the lens of mortality, and the practices that allow us to accept and serve both life and its natural conclusion. Drawing from hospice experiences, Buddhist teachings, and their longstanding friendship, they explore how being present with impermanence fosters intention, gratitude, and connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Confronting the Fear of Death (00:00–04:33)

• Elena’s Story: Elena recounts seeing the fear in her mother’s eyes as she was dying, which inspired Elena to strive to face her own death with acceptance rather than fear.

  • “I saw my mom. Her eyes were so afraid. So I decided when I saw her eyes in the end of her life that I was not going to be afraid of that.” (Elena Brower, 00:05)

• Five Remembrances: Dr. Lyon shares the ancient Buddhist Five Remembrances, emphasizing the inevitability of old age, illness, death, change, and the lasting impact of one's actions.

  • “My actions are my only true belongings. My actions are the ground upon which I stand.” (Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, 02:01)

• Living Intentionally: Elena underscores how contemplating death daily increases presence and intention, steering life away from dread and towards enjoyment.

2. Lessons from Hospice Work (06:12–09:51)

• Entering Hospice Volunteering: Elena describes her fearful beginnings as a hospice volunteer. Facing awkwardness and uncertainty, she learned to focus on simple acts of service—cleaning, serving food, or just being present.

  • “I have to practice not knowing how this is going to go... I have to just remember, life and death are very close to each other.” (Elena Brower, 06:48)

• Letting Go as a Practice: The hardest part of dying, as observed in patients and her mother, is letting go—of the body, mind, and attachments.

3. The Value of Keeping Death Close (08:04–11:25)

• Acceptance vs. Avoidance: People who keep death close often develop a sacred awareness that enhances their appreciation of life, while those who avoid it struggle more at life’s end.

• Cultivating Connections: The importance of nurturing relationships now, identifying those whom we’d want with us were we facing death soon.

  • “Who are you choosing to put by your side now? You better be cultivating that friendship or those friendships. Keep those connections alive.” (Elena Brower, 10:03)

4. Stillness, Presence, and “Island of Coherence” (13:38–16:35)

• Shifting Priorities: Elena’s focus has shifted from worldly pursuits to service and being an “island of coherence”—an embodiment of calm, centered presence, learned through meditation and hospice work.

• Letting Go of Personality: By practicing stillness, Elena unpacks identity and habitual thought patterns, making space for authentic presence and service.

  • “Letting go of the personality has everything to do with getting back to the essence of who we actually are.” (Elena Brower, 13:38)

5. Societal Attitudes Towards Death & Ritual (17:17–19:51)

• Discomfort with Death in Western Culture: The conversation highlights the lack of death-related rituals and the tendency to turn away from mortality compared to indigenous cultures.

• Parental Perspective: Viewing our children as the future, we are reminded that our time is limited and that comfort with impermanence prepares us as parents.

• Shoji—Life and Death as One: Elena introduces the Japanese concept of “shoji,” symbolizing the inseparability of life and death.

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6. Practical Approaches to Letting Go (32:40–36:04)

• Zazen Meditation: Elena describes Zen meditation as her primary route to facing thoughts and learning to release them—“just sitting” and letting thoughts drop teaches the mind to let go and find stillness.

  • “The practice is actually to not follow the thought... to just let it drop.” (Elena Brower, 14:45)

• Metabolizing Grief and Trauma: Stillness helps one physically and emotionally process waves of grief, making them tolerable and eventually, transformative.

7. Presence over Performance (37:50–40:07)

• Non-Agenda Service: Whether with the dying, her son, or friends, Elena emphasizes “presencing”—serving without fixing or imposing, simply being steadily present.

• The G.R.A.C.E. Practice: Shared as a clinical and spiritual tool:

  • Gather attention
  • Recall intention
  • Attune to self and others
  • Consider what will serve
  • Engage and end

8. Letting Go: From Ego to Utility (41:33–47:57)

• Grasping vs. Releasing: Discussion on healthy ambition versus clinging—how, for women especially, it’s vital to let go of the need to hold everything and everyone together.

• Redefining Success: Elena questions conventional success and instead focuses on service, friendship, and partnership, shedding what no longer serves.

9. Navigating Self Doubt and Cultural Narratives (48:04–53:51)

• Shedding Self-Doubt: Self-doubt is contextualized as a conditioned response from cultural paradigms—especially the “winning/losing” binary. Letting go of self-doubt happens through presence and stillness, not by accumulating more knowledge.

• What Are We Meant to Do?:

  • “Connecting and caring for people.” (Elena Brower, 51:03)

10. Intergenerational Healing & Boundaries (56:45–75:13)

• Healing Backwards and Forwards: As Elena works on her own patterns of doubt and fear, she witnesses her son’s growth—modeling how personal healing affects generations.

• Setting Boundaries as Love: Decisions to stay or let go in relationships are navigated with discernment and respect, often made easier by stillness.

  • “Very often the best thing we can do is not to engage... Just release and move on.” (Elena Brower, 74:25)

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11. Creating Altars—Physical and Internal (75:14–79:18)

• Physical Altars: Elena recommends creating small, visible reminders of meaning—photos, heirlooms, notes—anchoring daily intention and presence.

• Internal Altars: Practices for anchoring emotion or intention in the heart during meditation, returning focus whenever the mind wanders.

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12. Facing Someone’s Fear of Dying (79:24–80:44)

• How to Respond: Elena’s approach is to be present, ask gentle questions, and offer companionship in silence and non-judgment, rather than advice.
  • “Any thought that you have that arises... what if we were to just practice letting that thought gently drop?” (Elena Brower, 79:41)

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13. The Power of Listening (67:27–70:43)

• Listening as Action: Both recount the gift of being deeply listened to by loved ones, identifying it as a crucial, generative form of healing and confidence-building.
  • “That kind of listening is a gift to the whole world.” (Elena Brower, 68:43)

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14. Closing: The Five Remembrances & Guided Meditation (84:08–End)

• The Five Remembrances Repeated: Dr. Lyon and Elena recite them as a final grounding practice.
• Guided Meditation: Elena closes with a meditation to help listeners experience stillness, release thoughts, and anchor presence and discernment in themselves.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Letting go is the whole practice. Letting go of the body, letting go of the mind, letting go of the attachments to the people that you love. It's so hard. I see how hard it is.” (Elena Brower, 00:30)

• “Who are you choosing to put by your side now? You better be cultivating that friendship or those friendships. Keep those connections alive.” (Elena Brower, 10:03)

• “Letting go of the personality has everything to do with getting back to the essence of who we actually are.” (Elena Brower, 13:38)

• “We are uncultured, sister. We're uncultured to shy away from it and turn away. Our culture does not include, like most indigenous cultures, ritual and respect for the dying process.” (Elena Brower, 17:17)

• “Presence is the main teaching... That’s what I can give. Serving, presencing people as my service, that I can do, and that makes all the difference.” (Elena Brower, 21:19)

• “Zazen meditation allows the body to disappear into the practice.” (Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, 32:02)

• “All those things are a good place to begin... All the shame of all the mistakes that I continue to make, all of the grudges that I have ever held... All those things are a good, good place to begin.” (Elena Brower, 44:44)

• “I think what we share is kind of a panoramic acceptance... the acceptance of our own mortality, impermanence, that of everyone we love, it brings a certain caliber of vibrancy to things.” (Elena Brower, 48:41)

• “The practice is actually to not follow the thought... to see the thought being emitted from my mind, and to not follow it, to just let it drop. That's the respectful thing to do for my brain and for my body...” (Elena Brower, 14:45)

• “Connecting and caring for people.” (Elena Brower on our ultimate purpose, 50:58 & 51:03)

• “Efforts count...and that goes a really long way.” (Elena Brower, on forging unlikely friendships and family ties, 83:12)

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Highlights by Timestamp

• 00:00–04:33: Confronting fear of dying, lessons from Elena’s mother, Five Remembrances.
• 06:12–09:51: Hospice work, letting go, awkwardness at the bedside.
• 13:38–16:35: Meditation, “letting go of personality,” becoming an “island of coherence.”
• 19:51–21:19: Presence vs. avoidance of death, Shoji.
• 32:40–36:04: Stillness, metabolizing grief, integrating Zen meditation.
• 41:33–47:57: Ambition, success, and letting go.
• 48:04–53:51: Self-doubt, cultural narratives, connection.
• 56:45–75:13: Intergenerational healing, boundaries in relationships.
• 75:14–79:18: Altars—physical and internal grounding practices.
• 79:24–80:44: What to say to those afraid of dying—presence, not advice.
• 84:08–End: Five Remembrances repeated, meditation practice.

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains a gentle, contemplative, and sincere tone—balancing humor, vulnerability, and wisdom. Both speakers share personal anecdotes and practical insights, encouraging listeners to engage deeply but compassionately with the discomfort of mortality, while cultivating full presence and meaningful connection.

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Key Takeaways

• Facing the inevitability of death can enrich and inform every moment of life.
• Simple presence and non-judgmental attention are the most powerful gifts we can offer, whether at a bedside, with loved ones, or in daily life.
• Letting go—from thoughts, grudges, self-doubt, and rigid identities—can be practiced through stillness, meditation, and honest friendship.
• Healing happens across generations when we do our own inner work.
• Rituals, altars, and daily reminders of meaning (physical or internal) help ground us.
• There is no right advice for someone afraid of dying; presence and patient companionship are enough.
• Ultimately, our “actions are the ground upon which we stand.” (Five Remembrances, 02:01)

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For listeners seeking depth, comfort, and a practical framework for living—and dying—well, this conversation between Dr. Lyon and Elena Brower is a gentle, profound guide.

Transcript

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What would you say to someone who's afraid of dying?

[Alaina Brower]

Not much. I saw my mom. Her eyes were so afraid. So I decided when I saw her eyes in the end of her life that I was not going to be afraid of that.

[Podcast Announcer]

My guest is Alaina Brower, best selling.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Author, poet, meditation teacher, hospice volunteer, and now a candidate for for Buddhist chaplaincy.

[Alaina Brower]

The letting go is the whole practice. Letting go of the body, letting go of the mind, letting go of the attachments to the people that you love. It's so hard. I see how hard it is.

[Podcast Announcer]

Her new book, Hold Nothing is a.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Guide to living fully as a practice with clarity and respect. Very few people would actively go to seek out helping someone die well or.

[Alaina Brower]

And so many people are dying alone.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I am speechless that you are here in my life. I have learned so much from you and to have you on the show to share your experience with the world in a world where we are spending billions of dollars trying to live longer and escape death, which it's something nobody gets out of.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We spend very little time and very little energy thinking about the end.

[Alaina Brower]

I've only just become more comfortable with it since my mom died. That was about eight years ago now. None of us actually really consider what it means to die well. Or very few of us anyway. And I've discovered that this is one of the things that I can do in this world. Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Is to help people live well so that they can die well in full transparency. There are a handful of people that I really go to in my life. And you and James, you're on that very short list. I sent you a text and you responded with this. And this is the five remembrances. I am of the nature to grow old. There is no way to escape growing old. I am of the nature to have ill health. There is no way to escape having ill health. I am of the nature to die. There is no way to escape death. All that is dear to me and everyone I love are of the nature to change. There is no way to escape being separated from them. And finally, my actions are my only true belongings. My actions are the ground upon which I stand.

[Alaina Brower]

And there is no way to escape the consequences of my actions.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

How can we think about and live well with such intense impermanence?

[Alaina Brower]

I think the way that we live well is by keeping all of this in mind. It's not to kind of. Yeah, that's coming later, some other time. I just experienced learning news of a kid who was 15 who died in a very sudden accident very unexpectedly. And that could happen any day. And I have been, I don't know, for the last five, ten years. Even more, I think about what it would be like if today were the day that somebody came knocking or calling and saying, your son or your partner, you know, has died. And of course, we may look at that and think, well, how morbid, how ridiculous. When actually it's one of those things that keeps me living very intentionally and carefully, my life without a lot of rancor, without a lot of dread. I'm ready and I'm going to enjoy this day. I'm going to enjoy this moment. Looking at you, I can't even believe the road that we've traveled. Years, many, many years.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Many years, probably many lifetimes. Many lifetimes, many moments together, keeping these.

[Alaina Brower]

Five remembrances, which, by the way, are thousands of years old, from the Angutara Sutta and Sutra Sutta Thich Nhat Hanh did that translation. And I learn it from people like Roshi, Joan Halifax, Frank Ostasesky, the people who take the time to share what it means to really serve, what it means to sit at the bedside of people who are dying, what it means to serve people who are in penitentiary, who have know very few resources for healing. And I keep those remembrances close because it helps me live my life to the fullest and do my service in all of those realms to the fullest.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

When I was in geriatrics, and again, you and I do, we speak a lot about death. And I. I struggle with the idea of it, especially with two little children, 4 and 5. And when I went through geriatric training, it was full of death.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There were two kinds of physicians, I would say. There was on one hand, the physician that they were. This is what they were doing. They were hospice doctors. They were seemingly unfazed. Perhaps they were accepting. And then I think that there were doctors like me that were afraid and felt very vulnerable to death. Seeing it, awkward, it didn't feel inspiring. It felt. I couldn't wrap my head around it.

[Alaina Brower]

Terrifying.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. Terrifying.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah. That's how it was for me at first. I don't know why I was called to this hospice volunteer training. And I took it. It was a full weekend, you know, I don't know, 16, 17 hours. And I then started volunteering in hospice. This was several years ago. And I walked in the first few times and I was so afraid. I was so. I just. It was so awkward. I didn't know what to do. And I just went in and did whatever I was asked to do. And this is A local hospice in the town where I live, and five beds. It's nonprofit, so we're doing everything. You know, I learned a bunch of rules. You could never hand a patient medication. I learned all these rules. I follow them myself. But in this kind of a place, it's like anything goes. Everyone is there to die. When I see somebody being wheeled in, I know this is. This is the last stop for them. And it's beautiful. And I have to practice not knowing how this is going to go. I have to practice not trying to make things perfect for this patient or this family. And I have to just remember, life and death are very close to each other. What can I do today to make things easier? Maybe it's dishes. Maybe it's changing a patient's, you know, basically diaper. Maybe it's helping to serve them a beautiful lunch on a beautiful tray with a little flower. Maybe it's just cleaning the room. Is there an active death process that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It just feels and sounds intense. And I can speak for myself and I can speak for you. Who is listening or watching. Very few people would actively go to seek out helping someone die well, and.

[Alaina Brower]

So many people are dying alone.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What are the risks of not being aware of our own fragility? Now?

[Alaina Brower]

I don't see it that much in the hospice because these people know that they're coming to die and they're ready. They are in a state of relative acceptance. Some of them are even choosing medical assistance in death, which is legal in the state where we are. But when you keep life and death very close, you know that you have this very sort of sacred, secret teacher death going to keep you really awake and aware to what's happening. When you try and sort of keep it at a distance, there is a level of fear that pervades everything. And it's so frustrating for folks because they can't let go. And the whole practice, as far as I can see, in my very humble and very limited experience of three years, it's not long, but I'm committed to this for the rest of my life. Those folks really struggle, and it's hard to watch. And it's. It's the letting go is the whole practice. Letting go of the body, letting go of the mind, letting go of the attachments to the people that you love. It's so hard. I see how hard it is. I saw my mom. Her eyes were so afraid. Yeah. So I decided when I saw her eyes in the end of her life that I was not going to be afraid of that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

My question was going to be. Why not just wait? Why not wait and towards the end, be afraid and be afraid for a moment and avoid it. But there, what I'm hearing you say, it's probably where the title of your new book comes from. Hold nothing. Yeah, likely a different way to do it. And this is an invitation to let go and come home to yourself.

[Alaina Brower]

I'm committed to this. I'm committed to offering what I know as I learn it about this. It's very, very brave to day by day imagine what, what it would feel like if this were your last day. This were my last day. I think we did okay. The kids fell asleep on me last night.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It was just.

[Alaina Brower]

We had the best time with Shane. I mean, you know, okay. And every single day now because of the presence of this death is like in the marrow of everything that we do. We know this because of it. I'm really conscious about how I'm approaching everything, you know, know. If you're listening or watching and you're thinking about this and how uncomfortable it is, what if you were to picture that today is your last day or God forbid, you just got a really harrowing diagnosis. Who are you choosing to put by your side now? You better be cultivating that friendship or those friendships. Keep those connections alive. I was talking to Sierra Campbell, my friend who founded Nurture and this is her job. She helps folks die is her full time job. And she said make sure that you talk about connections, the people who you keep close now in this life and who you would choose if you were going to die soon. Who, whom would you choose to be there? You know, you're one of my people for sure. But that's what, that's our task. Think about that. Cultivate those friendships. Keep those connections alive.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's wise and uncomfortable.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Podcast Announcer]

I wanted to take a moment to let you know about something new we've created. It's called Forever Strong Insider and it's the premium subscription to the Dr. Gabrielle Lyons show as a forever strong insider. Every week you'll get ad free episodes, written summaries with key takeaways to help you retain the most important insights from the show. A community Q and A segment where you can submit your own questions for upcoming guests. We're going to call this the strong seed and behind the scenes content. A closer look at how I prepare, train, travel and navigate daily life. Go to foreverstrong supercast.com let's keep getting stronger together.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We live in a very fast paced world and I've again we've known each other for years. And I watched you do and continue to do extraordinary things. In addition to that, you push less. I mean, you are a world renowned meditation teacher. Very early on in our friendship, you were traveling, you were going to all these different places and speaking all over the world. Now you could certainly do all those.

[Alaina Brower]

Things only every now and again.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But now it's different.

[Alaina Brower]

No, I really love, I really love the volunteer hours that feeds me. It is very different. And there was a term that I came across a couple of years ago on being an island of coherence. It's a scientific term, actually, but I fully took it into my soul and was like, wow, what does that actually mean? And I decided that's what I want.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

To become as long as I'm on that island. Same with Jimmy Shane. Jimmy's in another one of my best friends. He's sitting over here. Help design this beautiful podcast studio. This book hold nothing has profoundly touched me. I already ordered five copies and I will be ordering more. Many things here that are tremendous, but one of which I noticed is letting go of your personality. How and why should we even consider that?

[Alaina Brower]

There are a few things that I'm thinking about. The first is sort of the more surface. And then there's a cool daoist teaching that I think is worth mentioning. The surface is I spent most of my adult life building up this Persona personality. I'm a teacher. I travel the world and do this thing. I teach yoga and meditation. And you know, I'm a business person. I have this wonderful business that supports my family and many, many hundreds of other families. And this letting go of the personality has everything to do with getting back to the essence of who we actually are. And if we don't have an answer to that question, who actually are you? Then it might be time to sit still and actually practice being an island of coherence. I found Zen Meditation five years ago, 2020, and was com immediately touched by the level of discomfort and awkwardness that I felt sitting still, stock still and not moving. And what I've come to understand is not moving is actually the way because when we move, we're moving away from what it is that we're trying to avoid. When I sit still, I can really face it. Ah, this is what my mind is doing. These are the thoughts that continue to secrete from my mind very naturally. This is how I habitually follow said thoughts. And the practice is actually to not follow the thought, to see the thought being omitted, emitted rather from my mind, and to not follow it to just let it drop. That's the respectful thing to do for my brain and for my body and for. For this island of coherence that I want to become. So I let those thoughts go. Then that in turn becomes letting the personality go. And that in turn yields somebody who is a force for calm, who can walk into a situation like somebody in active dying process. One of my dear bosses at the hospice, Whitney, I love you. She came in the other day and she said, this person is about to begin the active process. I can hear it, feel it, see it. All of us could, of course. And would you mind making the room a little more sacred? She said I was like my language, my love language. And I began cleaning. I started with really deep clean of all the surfaces. And then I started lighting up little plants all over the place. I put new flowers up. I washed all the vases. Like that I can do. And that. We don't realize that. But imagine if you were dying. It's the end of your life. You're in a hospice with maybe one person you know, but maybe not nobody that you know. And some little fairy comes around and starts making the flowers fresh and cleaning the space so that your transition is a clear one. How about it? Don't you love that idea?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I think death really scares me.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And I'll take a ferry at the end.

[Alaina Brower]

I'll be there. God will.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, how about we just. Right here. I'm gonna try to negotiate death.

[Alaina Brower]

Let's do it together.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

How about we just all do it together?

[Alaina Brower]

I think it would be just join. Join a cult and do it together.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

All right. We're gonna go to Costa Rica. We're gonna hang out. We'll wait for the tsunami. It will be knowing us. We would definitely be prepared. But I had to use humor and bring you in because it is that. It is that uncomfortable. I'm just noticing my own way of trying to avoid this relationship with growing old and dying and losing everything that I hold dear.

[Alaina Brower]

We are uncultured, sister. We're uncultured to shy away from it and turn away. Our culture does not include, like most indigenous cultures include ritual and respect for the dying process is a very natural part of life. Why do we turn away from it? And this is when we look at the way in which we're made so comfortable. All the conveniences of this life, the fast food, all the chemicals that are put in everything, everything. All in the interest of efficiency. We're losing contact with these rituals and ways of being and seeing that include death.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

How Important is it to become comfortable with this process?

[Alaina Brower]

You know, I think there's. To go back to that Taoist teaching I mentioned earlier. There are two polarities, absence and presence. Right? In the dao, absence is the fundament, the most generative force. It's the thing from which everything arises. What if we were to start as parents from the very, very beginning, realizing that we put these people on the earth to take over for us to do a better job than we do? What would be the result? That we are now looking at your babies, whom I love so much, both of them, as the next step. Why would we avoid that? We aren't permanent.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Practices. Practices. For Matt, my producer, listening, who is in his early 30s with a very young family, although he's been a soldier, for him, the relationship to life and death may be different. Same with Shane, my husband, who also served. He will say that he's not afraid of death, right? And that every warrior knows what they are called to do. And he also has said that once he let go of that fear, things didn't necessarily matter. He wasn't shackled by his own thoughts.

[Alaina Brower]

That makes sense to me.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Is it important for someone like me to become comfortable with this? And to be clear, I wanted you to come on to this podcast. Number one, very few people have taught me more in this world just by watching you. And number two, we spend hours, myself, you, at home, learning about life and health, and no percentage of that time is allocated to when it ends.

[Alaina Brower]

Staggering, actually, when you think about it, and we know a lot about what it means to, you know, live well, healthily, vibrantly, radiantly. And I don't think that that's a bad thing, but I do think that we need to. I do think, to answer your question, that it is important. You know, Matt and Shane, they have had the experience of serving to wake them up to the reality of death. In Japanese, there's actually a term, shoji, life, death. So close. There isn't a separation. It's one word, shoji. I hope I'm saying it properly, but it's taught me a lot because it just keeps the two of them. They're right there next to each other. There's no distance between them. When I sit for meditation, that is exactly what I'm thinking each time I see a thought coming up. Let it die.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

For you personally, is this to augment bravery?

[Alaina Brower]

I do think my quick answer is yes, but maybe it just is bravery to keep these two things very close. Life, death, birth, death. That is bravery. I was so nervous Just coming here, you and I are best friends. And I was nervous coming here because is this even relevant? And now I'm sitting here talking to you and I'm like, you know what if two people watch this and it means something good? We did it. Keeping death close, it. It drives my happiness. Happiness generating in is part of that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Because it allows you to savor each moment, be deeply present.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes. It's all about presence. I think that's the one thing I've learned the most from. One of my teachers is Roshi Joan Halifax, the founder of Upai Sense Center. Presence is the main teaching that I've derived from being in her field for these last five years. Presence is what is all we can give. When you say my actions are my only true belongings, like that's what I can give. I've walked into the hospice and tried to solve things and fix things and help. None of those things are real. They all assume brokenness and wrongness. But serving presencing people as my service, that I can do, and that makes all the difference.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

All you have to do is go.

[Podcast Announcer]

To peori P-U-O-R-I.com DrLion and use the.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Code DrLion at checkout. Do you do that with rituals and should we have rituals? You had mentioned other cultures have a lot of rituals. A coming of age. We don't seem to have that here.

[Alaina Brower]

No, we are tasked at this particular point in time, given where we are in terms of the health of our country and the, you know, these two polarities. We have this really sort of sick culture, I mean, ill culture. And then we have this crew, you know, we're all after like cold plunges and all the biohacking we can possibly imagine, all the great products that have been put out there and Somewhere in between those two is a person who's willing to be present for the truth of their own death, truth of everyone else's death, and actually serve in small ways toward that truth. And that's. That's where I come in. I think I can do that. I think I can continue to volunteer and continue to share the joy of volunteering because it's so lovely, you know, you can continue doing your work. I'm not saying everyone has to do this.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's hard.

[Alaina Brower]

But I am saying it's really nice to go and serve someone who's dying or someone who's incarcerated. Oh, my God. It's the opposite of what we want to be doing with our free hour or two hours of the week, four hours of the week. However, when I enter into those settings, time disappears. Time stops. I'm there not just for them, I'm there for myself. I'm there to feel what it means to actually be of service. I'm there to presence folks who are so not served well in these times. And for me, that it propels me, keeps me going. It makes me a better writer, a better friend, better daughter, better mom, better partner. And we don't think about it. But I'm here to vote for that. I'm here to sort of advocate for, volunteer, take care of your mind. Sit still, really listen to people that you love. Cultivate the relationships and the conversations that are difficult. Cultivate the friendships that you want near you when you die. Take care. Not things we talk about every day.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Not at all. You and I, you were chatting and you said you're having these conversations a lot more.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There seems to be a cadence to the conversation where people go, okay, you know what? I got it. Dying is a big deal. Something like that, right? That people will hear and listen up into a point. And then especially the young and healthy ones are, okay, I'm ready. Is that happening? Do you feel?

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah, for sure. They're, you know, it's hard. It's hard. I don't try and force it on anybody. If I'm asked the way you're asking, I will talk about it. My kid doesn't want to hear it at this moment in time.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

He's 18.

[Alaina Brower]

He's 18, almost 19. And I totally understand. Like, I don't force it on him. If I'm leaving to go there, I'll say, hey, I'm heading over to the hospice now. And there was a time where he'd be like, why are you doing that?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What'd you tell him?

[Alaina Brower]

I Said actually brings me a lot of joy, and it helps me appreciate the fact that you're. You're here in my life. I love you. Helps me appreciate James, helps me appreciate all the people with whom I get to work, my friends. And then there's nothing else he can say, because obviously that is what's true.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Is there an age that we should begin to talk about death? I remember I called you because Aries said, you know, mom, what happens when we die? Are we going to heaven or are the angels going to talk to us? And I honestly, I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how much of death to even talk about.

[Alaina Brower]

What did you end up saying?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I think I just called you, and then I said, what should I say? And you sent me a voice memo, and I played it for her.

[Alaina Brower]

Oh, that's awesome. I probably said something to the effect of, no kid is too young to understand that life starts and life ends. Something like that. And I don't doubt that there are some forces or greetings that we receive based on the information that I have watching people in hospice, almost every time I'm going to lift my hand for a second right before death, an arm goes up. If they have mobility, an arm goes up like this almost every time. There are so many stories of this in the field of hospice care, palliative care. I can't help but think there's some hand, some energy reaching down, and they're reaching out toward it. I can't help but think that. So you could say to a child, you know, I don't really know, but it has to be something that you feel and you believe, and if that's what you want to think about, that the angels are coming for you, or there's somebody who's passed on already that might be coming to welcome you. Cool, great. Let's keep talking about it. But I think as a parent, if you're listening and you don't know what to say and your child is asking, you can say, I don't really know, but here's what I think, or here's what I saw when this person died. Just be honest. You know, we don't. We don't have answers.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Do you think if individuals have a lot of trauma and grief in their life, that they meet death differently?

[Alaina Brower]

I don't know. I wonder about that. I certainly saw my mom's eyes. Like I mentioned prior, I actually stood up over her bed and I flipped open her eyelids for a moment before she passed. And I just wanted to see her eyes one more time. She had the prettiest brown eyes. And she was just afraid. Like I said, they just looked so scared. And I just wanted to do something about it. Why is she not at peace with letting go of this body? And I just whispered into her ear, we're all going to be fine. We are all taken care of. Your grand boys, your girls, we're good. Everybody's going to be okay. Come closer to it. Let go. Don't be afraid. And she died shortly thereafter. Who's to say that my words helped? I don't know. I hope they did.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Do you feel that you know less, not more, as you've seen this?

[Alaina Brower]

Yes. Yes. That's the craziest part. I don't. I. I sit still for so many hours of the week. Honestly, at least seven hours of the week, I'm sitting very still. And I don't know more. It's not about getting more information or knowing more. It's just about being more comfortable with all of these very uncomfortable concepts. Even think about how you and I know each other. How did we get here? We were both willing to be very uncomfortable and get past it because we could see that there was somebody across the way who was actually going to be with us for life. How did we figure that out? We were both listening very well. I'm convinced of that. And that's. That's what sitting. Sitting still gives me. It doesn't give me information or knowledge. It gives me good listening, patience, and the care that I can be present with somebody when I don't feel comfortable.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And that's through zazen.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes, that's the word for Zen meditation. Zazen.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Zazen, Zen meditation. How is Zen meditation different than Transcendental meditation or other various modalities of stillness?

[Alaina Brower]

So tm, Vedic meditation, lots of other kinds of meditation. They require the use of a mantra or a mudra, which is like a hand placement. All of that is wonderful. And all of it has been a part of my formation. All of it. There's no better or worse here. There's no hierarchy. The reason why I personally love zazen is because there's nothing there. They're just sitting. The word for it is actually just sitting, shikantaza in Japanese. And just sitting means literally just coming closer and closer to the way in which my mind works and seeing how absolutely funny and terrified it's been and how easy it is to just let go of what drops. Let go of what drops. Everything is so ephemeral. My mind is dropping another thought. I'm going to drop it too. My mind is dropping another thought. I'm going to drop that one too. Until there's nothing there. And then I get up from that seat. 40 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever it is. I am a slower, calmer being. I am an island of coherence to the people around me. You can't shake me for hours after that. I'm unshakable, you know. And you've taught me how to be physically strong. You know, how to really prioritize muscle. I have muscle now. That is just the best thing ever. Physiologically, structurally, everything. I feel so good. This is. This is that for my mind.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I would argue also that you've always been very strong and that you have sought to put yourself into deeply uncomfortable places. To have this unshakable presence you write in hold nothing. That zazen meditation allows the body to disappear into the practice. We live in a world that is faster paced than it was 10 years ago. It's only accelerating. How would we even begin to embody this kind of stillness so that one could metabolize trauma or grief?

[Alaina Brower]

I think the first thing I want to say is, in addition, as sort of an adjunct to that question, we also live in a world where visibility is very important. It's everything. Here we are. Lights are on, books are out. My book is not out. But your book is out.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Where is your book?

[Alaina Brower]

My book is coming out soon. We have a few months left. The sitting and the dropping of the thoughts, the personality. All of the sort of configurations of the mind, the disappearing that I write about. That is so I can be present for you, for your kids. Why do those kids love me as much as they do? Because I'm right there.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Wow, you smell good. You're funny.

[Alaina Brower]

Do they talk about how I smell? I mean, come on.

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This episode is brought to you by something sweet. And it's not me, it's Manicura. Let's talk carbs. Specifically honey. And no, it's not another nickname for my husband. I usually call him something else. People have this idea that carbs are bad. And that is simply not true. I use Manicura honey daily. Well positioned carbs like Manakura honey. They have been amazing for my personal training. I think of Manuka honey, which is what it is, is a functional carbohydrate, not just the sugar. It's serving a purpose. It's not just adding empty carbs. Honestly, we use it anytime we need a natural sweeteners. The bees collect the nectar from the Manuka tea tree in New Zealand. It's very complicated. The nectar is then packed with bioactive ingredients. Ingredients and the honey that is produced has three times more antioxidants than your average honey.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

For 25 off your starter kit.

[Alaina Brower]

The disappearance is really so that everything else can happen and I don't need to be there. I can just be present for what is happening. I'm not trying to, you know, do more or be more or be more visible. I'm just trying to be present. God, it's so hard. It's so hard.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And think about it because for exactly the reason that you said, we live in a world where visibility. If we want to speak and share. You will go to hospice and there are five beds. We will talk and you will help millions of people. I know even have a whisper thinking about dying. While it is not an if, it is a when. And again, just very personal to me, these are things I reach out to you about all the time. Because on one side we have joy. And I think that we all feel so privileged to have each other and our families. And there is a level of. For me and I hope that I'm speaking to you out there, who is listening. A level of vulnerability of complete and total loss of everything that you hold dear. I love my parents so much. I love my best friend, Don Layman. And I also know that there will be a moment we will not be. Be together.

[Alaina Brower]

How good are you? To finish the last question, how good are you? How practiced are you at letting this go, Letting them go?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Not at all.

[Alaina Brower]

I. That's. Yeah, that's the, that's the whole charge. That's the task at hand. That is it. And, and I will say to finish that thought, the sitting still when I'm grieving, especially after I heard about that 15 year old kid, I can't even. Yeah, I sat for an hour that morning. The next morning after hearing it, I barely slept at night. I just couldn't get over it. Me, I'm like all hospice. I'm, you know. But when something sudden like that happens and it's out of order like that, and it's the kid dying before the parents, wow, it just really throws you for a loop. But I sat for that hour and I suddenly felt, okay, okay, okay, I'm back. And I could feel the waves of grief. The waves moved through me. They are so palpable now. And Slowly I was able to move that sadness through my system because I was sitting still. It's the craziest truth, and it's really boring. And it's not bright lights and it's not visibility, and it's not a personality. It's the opposite. It's the disappearance that you just cited. We have to disappear in order to be able to metabolize. And then once we've metabolized these things little by little years, we can really serve other people in helping them get through a challenging time.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Where is the balance between the personality and the ego of being driven? There's a drive of contribution. It sounds to me that there are layers to this. There's being driven to contribute, but then also just being. Is the word steady and present to be contributing? How do we inter twine those two things?

[Alaina Brower]

I like the word steady a lot. I use it a lot. Perhaps too often, but yeah, I have to be very careful when I walk into that hospice that it's not about me. I have to be very careful when I'm talking to my kid. It's not about me or my agenda. I am here to serve your unfolding. Am here to serve the unfolding of this person who's in. In the death process. I'm not here to, like, be perfect and make it nice and help. Nothing is broken. I'm just here to presence. And it keeps coming back to that because that's the only truth. It's not exciting. That's the. The funny part. You know, I. I wish we had some, like, big, wow, this is the. This is the teaching. It's like, no, actually, the teaching is how present can I be for you when you're having a hard time, when you text me and you say, I don't understand this. I can't wrap my head around this. How present can I be for you? What practices have I done or. Or tried that have helped me? How can I share that with you without foisting an agenda on you? You know, that's how. That's friendship. That's. You know, and there are tactics. There are practices that do help. Moshe Joan has taught me about grace. This is an acronym that she uses that she's taught to clinicians and doctors and people in the social engagement field of any kind. Gather your attention R. Recall your intention. Like you, I can do this now in just a moment. Like this. When I walk into a room, okay? I'm gathering my attention. I'm recalling my intention. The A is attuning to myself, okay? How am I doing can I attune to the other people in the room? How's everybody else doing? C Can I consider what will serve what will actually serve right now? And mostly it's going back to the very boring but very real I can presence these people and e engaging and ending like sure, that's something we can cite here. It's lovely, it really does help me but there's nothing like super exciting about any of this. It's just how present can we be for each other at the end of life? We're all going in that direction. So weird.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's weird. I hope that I am doing a service to those that person listening because there are a million health conversations that.

[Alaina Brower]

We can have oh my God, so many. And you've helped me have so many and I feel so good at 55 years old. I feel amazing because of you. We've been doing this for eight years together, ten years together.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There is this practice of grasping I I see this biohacking space, this how are we going to live in our body? Well, how are we going to be jacked? Yes, it matters, James. How do we think about our brains and our experiences and ultimately my wish for people which it really isn't even my business to wish for people but I believe that they can be strong both mentally and physically and they should be able to choose. And when I think about your book hold nothing and we talk about death because again, selfishly, it's the thing I'm most afraid of. Yeah, but it could be anything. It could be the relationship that you're grasping. It could be the stage you want to speak on, the job that you.

[Alaina Brower]

Want, the friendship that is no longer working.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Any of those items. It could be any of those things. And what I am struggling with internally as I just talk about this and just try to share as openly as I can, is that I believe and many people want to do this thing. Shane, my husband, he's in his third year of surgical residency after being a decorated seal, seal with multiple war deployments and a medic yet here he is pushing and I mean we're talking 100 hour week. Yeah, easily, right. Fell asleep, comes home on a Tuesday night at 1:30 I go into the kitchen, he's sleeping there with pizza. He was busted.

[Alaina Brower]

Busted with a pizza.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But there is, there is a drive and if we are to hold nothing and if we are to be deeply comfortable with life and sitting allows us to drop our personality, our identity, how do we configure the two to fulfill as I would when I You know, talk to James, our Dharma or our whatever it is, that vision for us, how, how do we combine the two? How do we do that?

[Alaina Brower]

This I do not know. Because everyone is different. I know that. I'm trying my best to grasp less as women, especially if you're a woman listening, you know, to, to stop trying to hold everything and everyone together and know that everything and everyone, they're on their own road, on their own journey, in their own process. At a certain point we get somewhere in our 50s, I guess, maybe even 40s, where we can let go of more and not grasp so tightly on the things that are no longer important.

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[Alaina Brower]

It's.

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You'Ve been carrying the whole team, I.

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[Alaina Brower]

We hold a lot of shame. We hold a lot of grief. We hold a lot of blame. We hold a lot of rancor. As I mentioned, we hold a lot of grudges. Those are the things that we can practice with first. In my humble opinion, that's what I'm practicing with. All the shame of all the mistakes that I continue to make, all of the grudges that I have ever held against anyone who has ever done me wrong. All those things are a good, good place to begin.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Are you a grudge holder? I don't think so.

[Alaina Brower]

You know, there are a couple of things that I'm just like, how could that person actually do that? How could they actually think, think that about me? And then I have to let that go too. Wow. How quickly can I let go of that thought, that mistake.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I would say at lightning speed. James is. Am I correct? She is the. We have James in studio here, but it's a practice.

[Alaina Brower]

Dude.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I have known you 10 year. Almost 10. Longer. Let's see, longer. 2013.

[Alaina Brower]

2013, right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You have not picked up lightning speed any faster. Because when I met you, you were at lightning speed.

[Alaina Brower]

I. I've been really working on it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Lightning speed of letting go and not holding on to. Again. Two types of learning. I don't know how often we learn when people tell us. You. You never tell me things. You say perhaps what is your roundabout way? You. You know what I'm talking about. I can't even put it into.

[Alaina Brower]

It's an invitation. It's not a telling. It's not advice. It's an invitation or a question, maybe. What do you think about this? Perhaps you can consider this.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Or it's a Jimmy. Do we have a roundabout way that she offers a solution? And why do I bring this up? Because there are things that perhaps come very natural to some people and then some things that are just very cultivated. And this letting go and emptying of your identity, but yet you've been tremendously successful.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And creative.

[Alaina Brower]

What does success even mean at this juncture? I don't know. I'm just trying to figure that one out too. I'm redefining, like speaking of letting go, I'm redefining what success is actually. The entire construct is crumbling before my very eyes. I feel. And now it's up to me to create what I want. And I think what I want is a life of service, of friendship, of being an excellent partner and being a great mother. And as one teacher once said to me, and efficiently using what I have, I don't think I've been entirely efficient. I think that I've been very forgiving. And I'm becoming more and more intimate with the contents of my mind. But I'm really. I'm eager to see what happens over these coming years when I could just shed a few more things. One of my teachers talks about illuminating and shedding. That's kind of the process of sitting. And I'm doing that in my partnership, I'm doing that in my friendships. Illuminate what is happening and then shed what is not needed.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You have a page and a chapter here. Really. This emptying of self doubt.

[Alaina Brower]

Dang. Went right there.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I just. I have to go in because you might not take this personally, but you are extraordinary and your writing and your transmission is extraordinary. And I feel so honored and so fortunate to have walked all of these years with you. It is a surprising and unusual friendship.

[Alaina Brower]

To say the very least.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

To say the very least. And yet all makes perfect sense.

[Alaina Brower]

I think what we share is kind of a panoramic acceptance. It's such a great word. It's just so broad. It holds everything. It doesn't need to. It doesn't need. There's no judgment, there's no fear. There's just this full level of acceptance and that acceptance, and I dare say the acceptance of our own mortality, impermanence, that of everyone we love, it brings a certain caliber of vibrancy to things. The colors are bright, you know, the connections are real. There's no veil. I think that's everything. That's what holding up to me. That's what holding nothing really means.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

In order to hold nothing, you obviously have to let go of everything.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Self doubt. You do mentor people. I don't know if you still mentor people.

[Alaina Brower]

I do, I do, I do. I love it. Actually.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There are, I would imagine, just like as a physician, a handful of curated items that may be less than ideal for an individual to carry.

[Alaina Brower]

Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

One would certainly be self doubt. Yeah, I would love your experience with it or how one would get rid of it or why even have it. Is it useful?

[Alaina Brower]

The sea in which we're swimming that would give rise to such a thing as self doubt. The sea in which we're swimming is kind of internalized and dare I say, patriarchal environment. That's just what's true. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying that's what's true.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What does that mean exactly?

[Alaina Brower]

Meaning it's hard for all of us, both men and women, to let go of the winning and losing paradigm.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's very difficult.

[Alaina Brower]

I know. Winning or losing. If we could let go of that binary, the whole world would feel different. Everything would change. There would be no war. There would certainly be no lines in the sand. And I know this is a much bigger conversation, but that's what I mean by internalized patriarchy. I think there's a lot of winning and losing happening and that keeps us from actually doing what we're meant to be doing, which is connecting and caring for people.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I was going to ask you, do we know what we are meant to be doing?

[Alaina Brower]

Connecting and caring for people.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I was thinking, write a book, produce the best podcast.

[Alaina Brower]

This is your way of connecting and caring. Those are just the surface modalities that you've discovered and Are fluent and boy proficient in. But really I know you. I know you a long time. You're trying to connect and care for people. You started geriatrics.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Who does that?

[Alaina Brower]

Who does that?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah.

[Alaina Brower]

Not on purpose, but still. Your. Your little path led you right there to the elders. First thing.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

First thing. Do you remember you. I was not ready.

[Alaina Brower]

I know.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I am still not ready for it.

[Alaina Brower]

I know.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But as a core fundamental belief. You remember when it was winter?

[Alaina Brower]

Yes.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And I myself and Kara las asks.

[Alaina Brower]

It was a tough winter wearing I.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Don'T know, she was probably wearing 80 pounds and I was wearing my backpack with 40 pounds. And we are walking 10 miles up and down New York City. We walked from.

[Alaina Brower]

Incidentally last week my 16 pound weight vest was delivered to my house. I'll be starting to hike with that soon.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Very excited about this.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes, I remember And I say this. Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

For this idea of utility.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

James and I were talking about this quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson and Emerson that it's not the purpose of life isn't to be joyful. Which that might be a mistake, but it is to be useful. That might also be a mistake. It might not be utility in hold nothing. I just want to read this this line because I love it. Life presents us with endless choices to doubt that we're capable enough, wise enough or creative enough or release that doubt and learn to trust ourselves implicitly. We are living in a world of too much visibility, too much information and constant comparison.

[Alaina Brower]

It's crazy.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I just want to know how we navigate it. And should we hold nothing and we let go of self doubt and numerous other items, then what?

[Alaina Brower]

So the doubt usually is the result of some kind of coping mechanism or something that we heard when we were very small. We have not forgotten it. Even if our brains have forgotten what was said or done. Our bodies haven't. Somatic grief. It still lives. Letting go of that is the practice. I mean for me it was sitting still that that's what worked for me. And some combination, I will be honest of that and this weight training that you have me doing. At first, very reluctantly I might add.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

When I met you, I'm pretty sure you were. I won't even say it. Let's just say.

[Alaina Brower]

Just say it. Oh.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Deeply plant based.

[Alaina Brower]

Deeply plant based.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Which I. I was okay with.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah, no, it's fine after.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Although your blood sugar was just continuously, you know, just creeping up towards us where we didn't want it.

[Alaina Brower]

No, it's much better.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's much. I mean look at you.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah, much better. But I will say this. The. The letting go of doubt is so much about sitting still, watching the tendency of our mind and teaching ourselves to release as swiftly as possible the thoughts that perpetually arise.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

If we do that, how do we choose the next right thought?

[Alaina Brower]

There is no choosing. The mind will continue to secrete thoughts.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Thank goodness.

[Alaina Brower]

The practice is to keep letting go. And after some years of this, at least in my experience, it was two or three years of this very assiduous practice. I know it's annoying.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

That's just.

[Alaina Brower]

I know, I know.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I'll tell you when I start.

[Alaina Brower]

You. You'll start when your kids are older, perhaps. But after those two or three years now, in real life, in real time, right now, as I'm sitting here looking into your pretty green eyes, I can actually hit on a doubtful thought. I can see it and drop it. So the next thought that might arise might be something very supportive and helpful. And that's. That will be my next offering. Usually the best offering is nothing at all. Unless I'm being asked a question. I will not speak now because I've seen what my mind does and there's no point to it. Just let everything be.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

No wonder you're more quiet when I call you.

[Alaina Brower]

But everything's happening of its own volition. Everything is happening.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You know, I always just wonder, how.

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And I'll tell you what, I'm always.

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Go to Tryomra.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Intergenerational Healing. As you do this work, as you drop more doubt, more patterns, more personality, please share with me this thought and concept of intergenerational healing.

[Alaina Brower]

Such an interesting one. There's. We are looking at seven generations back, seven generations ahead. We do some work for ourselves. We begin to befriend our mind. We begin to get really good at illuminating and shedding ideas, doubts, fears, whatever the case. And because I'm doing it, I can see that my son, somehow I have no idea how, is more confident moving through the world. And there were these inflection points over time where I would get. I would get clear on some aspect of my own doubt or fear, and I would see it play out in him.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Tell me.

[Alaina Brower]

I. I don't know. Okay. I can't really. I wish I knew how. There's probably a million experts that you can have on this podcast that will tell you how structurally, cellularly, what happens in the mother happens in the child, even when the child is no longer the mother's belly. I'm sure that's true, but I'm watching it play out in real time. When I do my work, my kid somehow gets a little closer to himself and a little closer to me. There's a certain level of intimacy that I'm having within myself, fearlessness within myself that I see in him. I don't know how to explain it. I. I wish I could. I wish I could be more articulate. I. I don't know how to explain it, but I can see it and feel it. And when he's older, I think he'll be able to speak to this, like he will have seen me. I was very open about getting sober. Was in 2013, 14, 1414, October.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I. I was there. I remember.

[Alaina Brower]

And I was very open with him about it. And I wrote this really beautiful spoken word called Ritual of Recovery. And he was there. As I would practice it, he was there listening to it. I would practice it in all these different locations to really try and memorize it for myself and to offer it to people. And he would say that something changed within him when that happened, and I would concur. He was a different guy after that, and so was I. I don't know. I. I wish I knew, but I. I do know this for sure. I was unwilling. I. I shied away from my grandmother's death.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I did, too.

[Alaina Brower]

She was dying. I was on vacation with a boyfriend, and I. And then. And his family. And I was like, I'm not going. How ridiculous is that? I regret this so deeply. Grandma Bell, she was amazing. I wrote about her in the book, and she loved me so much. I can't imagine why I would. So I will never shy away from death again. And the way that I was able to approach my mother's death was very, very different. And that is a healing of a sort that is intergenerational. So you're picking up on something that I think is important on a personal level, that your listener, the reader of this book, will find ways to detect it in their experience. It's one of the things that happens naturally. We don't have to really try. If I heal something within myself, the generations behind me, the ones that went through World War II, the ones that are coming after me, Jonah, if he ever has kids, and his and theirs.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Everybody heals what we are going to do. Actually, I. Because I do have five copies, I'm sure I will buy at least five more.

[Alaina Brower]

Thank you.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I would love to offer. If you are listening, we've never done this on the podcast, but if you are listening and you write a review for this episode, I will send out. I'm not going to give you all my copies. I will send out three of the five copies that I have and I will have them signed by you. Again, if you are listening to this episode, please write a review. I will pick the top three reviews.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And send them out a copy. I think this book is so important and it talks about. Again, your writing is extraordinary. You know, as I've watched you grow up, we've both grown up in parts together.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I always ask how. And I ask James this too. How is she just so good at things? How is she just so good at. James is laughing. Because we, you know, I have a team of, you know, 13 to 20 people. And honestly, Elena could probably do all the jobs all at once. Matt, maybe not your job, but I.

[Alaina Brower]

Couldn'T do his job.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But how does someone become. And again, there's no ego to you. How does someone become so capable? And is it because you continue to open up to your true self?

[Alaina Brower]

One of the teachers in the lineage that I practice, Shunryu Suzuki, his sort of right hand for many, many years was a teacher by the name of Katagiri Roshi. Katagiri came up with this term, settling the self on the self. And I think even though I've probably had all these capacities all along, and I remember several jobs along the way before I became a yoga teacher, doing many different. Wearing all the hats in the. In the room. But I think since I started sitting meditation, I'm just able to be aware of what is needed around me because I've been settling the self on the self. And so I have this very direct, intimate experience of myself. And you know, I can look at the copy for your website and be like, hey gee, let's work on this and work on it and in an hour it's done. Because I'm also the customer, so it's easy for me, but I can do almost anyone's job, you know.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And is it just from a level of clarity because there's not this self doubt, noise, ego or.

[Alaina Brower]

No, I'm. I really am so interested in serving in whatever way that I can. And this just happens to be like what happens sometimes between you and me.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But we have taken care of each other for a long time.

[Alaina Brower]

But it, but it's very natural. And I think it's only because you, you in your field have a level of presence and like rigor.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yes.

[Alaina Brower]

And in my work I have a level of presence and that's what I can bring. And that yields a certain kind of rigor and attention and care for things. I think that's all you're picking up on. It's not a certain, like, oh, she's so smart, talented, whatever. It's just that I'm present.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I would argue it's smart and all of those things. We could all argue about that. But there is, what I'm also getting at is there's a level of clarity that allows you to execute swiftly that it might take someone three months to do. And this is really an example for the listener at home. It is an example of what I believe is possible when you can recalibrate your mind. I am not there. I see it in you, I see it in Shane. There's a level of silence that allows for, in my mind, execution, which is kind of the very opposite of what you're doing. It's. You're just doing the next right thing, the next moment, the next step. There's a level of ease that again, how do we live well and how do we live true and how do we live effectively? Part of that is, I think a lot of us spend a long time doubting and running from things. Maybe that's something natural in your 20s, but perhaps that could end now.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah, that could end now.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Just in a moment.

[Alaina Brower]

Suzuki also said we're all like clocks. We're really wound up, but we have no idea what time it is. And there's, let's say your listener is a parent.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah, many parents for sure, let's say.

[Alaina Brower]

Is a partner or somebody working in a certain situation. That's really challenging right now. Any challenge that we have, we sit and we can begin to feel a sense of groundedness. And a whole bunch of thoughts that don't pertain will definitely emerge from this very productive mind. And then some really good ideas will emerge. But we have to be quiet enough and still enough to know to drop all of them. It's, you know, it's like sand settling in a glass or something. Know to drop all of them so that you can be very discerning as to which one you're going to pick up on later. It's not something cognitive either. I'll walk out of a meditation. That'll be an hour. Sometimes I'll go and spend a whole month at Upaya Zen Center. Or, you know, I'm. I imagine I'll be at other places too, at some point thus far at Upaya. And I'll sit for a month, and in that month, it'll be five to eight hours a day of sitting. But by the end of that month, I have so many good ideas. I have good ideas for you, I have good ideas for me. I have good ideas for James. I have good ideas for the household. Just things that add to the groundedness and the efficiency. There's another teacher by the name of Catherine Thanis who invites us to. In her writing and speaking, she is long gone to be this moment. Not be in this moment or of this moment, or with this moment, but to be this moment. So if you're a parent and your kids are losing it, yep, happens every day. How can you be this moment? And you'll be standing in the kitchen, it will be a totally zoo around you, and you can put your hands on the counter. I'm just gonna be this moment. And then instead of shouting, maybe, maybe you'll whisper. Or instead of having a big reaction, instead, you'll actually sit down and your kids will be like, what is home? What is going on right now? And the parent is sitting down and everything sort of ratchets down three levels, and something actually that needs to happen can actually happen. Who's to say what the right reaction is? But at least you can start to feel a connection to what will serve in that moment when you could be that moment.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's very profound and very efficient, which I love. And it speaks to almost a spiritual discipline, perhaps.

[Alaina Brower]

Perhaps.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

For sure.

[Alaina Brower]

For sure.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You describe silence as this kind of prayer. And listening is the most powerful form of action. Can you speak to that?

[Alaina Brower]

Did you ever, as a kid, and I think I know the answer to this, but I'm actually really curious. Did you ever, as a kid, have somebody who really listened to you?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh, yeah.

[Alaina Brower]

Can you name that person?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

My grandma.

[Alaina Brower]

What was her name?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Marcella.

[Alaina Brower]

Marcella. Yeah. What have I never heard her name?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Marcy. Yeah.

[Alaina Brower]

Marcy. Whose mom?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

My dad.

[Alaina Brower]

Okay, that explains everything.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah.

[Alaina Brower]

She was rad.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

She was rad.

[Alaina Brower]

And she listened to you like crazy.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Like crazy. Just sit there, hands on her chin.

[Alaina Brower]

And be super interested.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh. Into it.

[Alaina Brower]

What a blessing.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I found some letters that I wrote her from camp.

[Alaina Brower]

Oh, gosh.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And it was, hey, the oranges are here, but these apples are kind of soggy.

[Alaina Brower]

You know she sent you Harry's fruits.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. And then the message back like, that's so amazing. I mean, just this so beautifully written response to my damaged fruit.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Letter that I had written.

[Alaina Brower]

That woman loved you so much.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So much.

[Alaina Brower]

So that kind of listening is a gift to the whole world. Because look, she gave you that kind of listening, which lent you somewhere in your cellular tendrils of your body a certain confidence that you were okay. You should be heard. That little confident, little thread of confidence has now the two of us sitting here, the way in which we know each other is bonkers. That we love each other so deeply is bonkers. And you have a significant impact on the lives of the people you're serving. You've had a significant impact on my life. Why? I would deign to say many, many reasons, but one of the earliest ones is Grandma Marcy listening. Well, to you. It says a lot. And. And who, you know, if you're listening to us or watching, who has listened to you and how can you emulate them in the service of all humanity? And don't be thinking that that's some sort of big idea. It's actually true. If I listen to, I don't know, a driver or somebody helping me at a restaurant or something, if I'm listening, well, they have a better day, and then their kid has a better day. Their partner has a better day. These little tiny things. But Grandma Marcy, she's part of the reason why you're so successful. You know, successful.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And that was air quotes for those of you who are just listening.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It makes a lot of sense because the way that we can then show up for others certainly perpetuates not only one individual life, but then a ripple effect and potentially inter generational healing. There are a few last questions, and this is something that when I think about being clear and discernment. You describe boundary setting with some boundary setting with someone you love as an act of love.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You describe boundary setting with someone you love boundaries as an act of love. How do you discern who and when to remain in someone's life versus love them from afar and close out chapter.

[Alaina Brower]

This is a very important question. I want to take it, you know, with sort of kid gloves. It's very case specific. But I know that you and I have been walking this road together for a long time. Thank you.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Anthony Lyon Story at the end Story.

[Alaina Brower]

At the end so you guys have.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

To stay tuned for the story at the end.

[Podcast Announcer]

I wanted to take a moment to let you know about something new we've created. It's called Forever Strong Insider and it's the premium subscription to the Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show. As a Forever Strong insider, every week you'll get ad free episodes written summaries with key key takeaways to help you retain the most important insights from the show, a community Q and a segment where you can submit your own questions for upcoming guests. We're going to call this the Strong Seed and Behind the scenes content A closer look at how I prepare, train, travel and navigate daily life. Go to foreverstrong supercast.com let's keep getting stronger together.

[Alaina Brower]

There are and have been certain situations in my life where somebody comes into it and I can see very swiftly that this story does not belong to me. It's very hard to discern that before I was sitting regularly, it was very hard to discern that since I started sitting. I can very swiftly see, okay, this is not mine to hold and I'm going to let it go quickly, without fanfare, without any sort of nothing else is happening. I'm just going to quickly exit the situation. It's to call it Taoist, call it, you know, sort of martial art where you sort of move out of the way of the moving vehicle, out of the way of the moving limb, whatever it is. I'm just moving out of the way. I'm not engaging with this situation even a little bit. I've had a couple of clients in the recent years where, you know, there's some sort of very obviously narcissistic partner. And I just advise if, if they're asking, not if they're not asking. I advise to block, delete, release, forgive, move on, no contact. That person will ultimately find some other venue to express their illness. In those cases. In any case where I detect a sense that it's not actually about me, I will as swiftly as possible remove myself from the situation and I won't talk about it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You don't. That is one thing that I have learned. I will bring something to you again as a Confidant. As someone who I trust deeply, as my family, I will lay a situation at your doorstep to ask you advice and you'll say, no, this person is. Wash your hands of them and no need. But as I sit to rationalize, well, maybe it is I that I'm being unreasonable. You are very clear.

[Podcast Announcer]

And secondarily, there's no shame.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There is not. I feel so guilty. Am I going to hurt this person's feelings? It is. Thank you. And move on.

[Alaina Brower]

Moving on. The best thing we can do very, very often is, is not to engage, not to try and, you know, make it right or make it easier or somehow perpetuate the situation. Just release and move on. Let go. It's really hard to do if. If you're listening and you're struggling with this, some sort of situation like this, just don't do anything for some time and see what happens. Without your process insinuated on the larger process, see what happens. The thing might resolve by itself, but oftentimes if I don't do anything at all, suddenly everything is better.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I like that. Doing a little bit less.

[Alaina Brower]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There are two more items on our list, perhaps three, and one of them which I have not been attuned to in the past, and this is a. What you call a literal altar. An altar in your home. And what does it mean to have an altar in the heart? And how do we live? What does it even mean? How are we thinking about that?

[Alaina Brower]

So many of us have very small spaces, and we are looking for some meaning in the things that we do and the people with whom we surround ourselves. An altar is a place where you can actually set your eyes and see something that has meaning to you.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Ah. All of those items and those paintings, that would not be one that I have of yours in my home, purposely placed in very particular locations.

[Alaina Brower]

The little vase that you pulled out yesterday that I gave you so many years ago, that whole shelf is sort of an altar. It's in. In her bedroom. What else were you showing me? The little cards, the little jewelry. Even, weirdly, when I walked into your closet and I saw that bag that I'd given you those many years ago that's hanging there, that too, is like a little bit of an altar. It's our friendship, you know, there's something about it. You walk by it, there's like a little heartwarming little burst.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Those items are strategically placed so that I can see them. And I would say I did that consciously. Is there of benefit? Could someone create a tiny little space?

[Alaina Brower]

It.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What Is someone trying to anchor.

[Alaina Brower]

I encourage this all the time. In fact, this is one of the things that I want to teach. As the book comes out, I'm going to offer this. I have to design it, but I know. I'm pretty sure I know what I want to do. Can you find one small shelf in your house, dear listener or viewer, where you can place a few of the items that remind you of who you are? Maybe it's a little picture of yourself as a child. Maybe it's a little piece of jewelry of your grandmother's. Maybe it's some photograph of somebody you love. Maybe it's a quote that you ripped out from some magazine so long ago and you have it sitting in a notebook, but you'd love to look at it every day. That's an altar. And you can make that altar as a physical space in your house. You can also make an altar in your little heart. So every time I sit, the first thing I do when I sit down, I exhale. I sort of gather my attention as my teacher has taught me to do. Roshi Joan. And then I let everything settle. I take a few breaths like that. And then there's some kind of like, anchor for today. I'm gonna anchor my sadness there. That's what it was yesterday when I was thinking about this child who died. I'm gonna anchor my trust because I feel so afraid right now, whatever it is. And once that anchor is placed, I let it go. That anchor is at the altar of my heart. I have another friend, Tracy Stanley, really well known teacher, respected teacher who has two books. One is called Radiant Rest and the other is called the Luminous Self.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I've read that. Radiant Rest.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes, Tracy would be. She's just one of my dearest teachers and friends, Tea sister also. And she teaches a whole yoga nidra where you're traveling basically to a location that you're envisioning as you're traveling there during the nidra. And you're landing at this altar, sort of a hearth, as it were. What are you placing there? That's the altar of your heart. There are many ways to go about this, but it's nice to have these kinds of intimate moments with yourself where you and you are the only thing that is needed. Nothing else is needed. Nobody else is needed. You don't need a piece of special something to, you know, or a object, nothing. You can just place your attention in your heart, anchor what you need, and then drop it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. This is a heavy one.

[Alaina Brower]

Okay.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You're ready for it.

[Alaina Brower]

I think I'm ready.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You're ready for it. What would you say to someone who is afraid of dying?

[Alaina Brower]

Not much. I would just ask them how they are. I would ask a lot of questions. I would be very curious to hear how they're doing today and what's happening in their heart, what's happening in their mind, who's been here to visit. And I would let them kind of drive the train if they asked me. I'm so afraid to die. I don't know how to think about this. I would say, why don't we just sit quietly together for a few moments, and any thought that you have that arises seemingly from somewhere in your consciousness, what if we were to just practice letting that thought gently drop? Let's see how that goes. That's probably all I would say. And then they would make some discoveries for themselves, and then we would go from there. But there is no advice for that. There's experience. There's a practice. You know, there's. There's just a comforting presence that I can offer. Maybe even take the comforting out because that's extra. Maybe I can just bring presence. Question mark.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I mean, again, we know each other so well, and I want to let everything land and breathe and have its space, rather than filling it up with a lot of words, which is probably shocking to my friends and family also sitting over there. You know, I think I'm very funny. I'm the only one that thinks I'm funny, which is actually funny. I add in the humor to deflect any. Any way in which I may be feeling, which is intense gratitude for you. Quick story. Elena Brower and I know each other because we both married. Tony Lyon. Shout out to Tony. Probably doesn't listen to the podcast, but we are all very, very dear friends at this point, all of us, which is so unusual. And when we were getting married, this is many years ago, obviously, I'm married now to Shane, with my two little minions.

[Alaina Brower]

Who we love.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Who we love. Who we desperately love. And at the time, you wanted to come to the wedding, and needless to say, I was not keen on inviting my future husband, my fiance's ex wife, to the wedding.

[Alaina Brower]

Cue Jimmy's giggle.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. And you and Jonah and James have been the biggest blessing we married, and I don't know how to say this, kindly decided not to stay in the divorce. The same person.

[Alaina Brower]

And he's amazing.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Amazing human. Amazing human.

[Alaina Brower]

We love him and his family, like his family is still my family. Incredible, for sure.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But it would make for an unlikely friendship, which also makes perfect sense.

[Alaina Brower]

We could both recognize in each other something that was timeless.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Timeless.

[Alaina Brower]

And we both put in efforts. We've all put in efforts. James and Tony are really close. I mean, they talk. It's really sweet. They say I love you at the end of the conversation, like Jonah and his friends. Like, it's real.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah.

[Alaina Brower]

But we've put in an effort. And I don't know what relevance this has for your listener, your viewer, but efforts matter. In the absence of mental illness, efforts count. You know, there's mental illness there. It's very difficult. I understand. But in this particular case, we both put in some time and work and care. We both care very deeply, very much. And that goes a really long way.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Just.

[Alaina Brower]

Just.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Wow. It's just silly. It's silly and amazing. And that we have all these narratives and these constructs about how relationships and friendships were form is such a unusual one. The way that it started and the way that it has continued for well over a decade. Yeah. I want to close this out before you offer us a beautiful meditation. And that is one more time, the five remembrances.

[Alaina Brower]

Let's do it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I am of the nature to grow old. There is no way to escape growing old. I am of the nature to have ill health. There is no way to escape having ill health. I am of nature to die. There is no way to escape death. All that is dear to me and everyone I love are of the nature to change. There is no way to escape being separated from them. My actions are my only true belongings. My actions are the ground upon which I stand. If you would honor us in a moment of meditation. Thank you again for being here, not just in this moment, but in all of the moments. It has mattered so deeply to me and my family.

[Alaina Brower]

I love your family so much. I love those babies. That video that you took yesterday of Aries jumping into my arms, how often does that happen in this life?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's a blessing.

[Alaina Brower]

Wow.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We are blessed, and this is quite a gift.

[Alaina Brower]

Yes, it is. I love you so much. I love you, too. All right, let's sit together. So if you're listening or watching, go ahead and make yourself comfortable in your seat. Find a way to place both feet on the floor. If you're on a chair. If you're sitting on a cushion, maybe just move to the edge so that your spine is nice and straight. And as you grow your spine tall, feel like you're reaching the crown of your head skyward. And then allow yourself to feel feet or seat or. Or both, grounded. And take a few deep breaths here, really gathering your attention on the inhalation. Allow your inhalation to be this kind of retrieval of parts of yourself, perhaps, that you've scattered about your home or your day. And allow the exhalation to be a very certain settling of your energy of what you're collecting and retrieving. We'll take two to three more breaths like that, gathering and centering, grounding. And gently become aware, as we've talked about during this conversation, of any thoughts that. That begin to emerge out of your consciousness. Maybe it's a thought about a plan or something that's happened in the past, and just notice it and bring your attention back to the next breath and the way in which you're collecting and settling. And the idea being that each thought that emerges, each, as we spoke about, secretion of the mind, becomes something you can just allow to drop. And you can certainly keep your eyes closed. Or if you wish, you can open your eyes. And the reason to gently open the eyes, take in a point on any surface in front of you, is to practice being present for reality as it is. And it can take time to learn how to keep your body still, to learn how to not address every itch. To stay still is to face the things that are difficult to face, and to become stronger in your discernment of what you tend to and what you leave alone. And as time passes, you begin to notice that there's a part of your attention that actually can see and feel and ascertain everything that's happening. And it is on that part that you can rest all of your energy, all of your attention, on that which sees everything. And the practice of noticing and dropping thoughts never really ends. But you may notice in time that the thoughts slowly become fewer and farther between, the pace slows down, and the body begins to move into a really restful healing state in which homeostasis or health is prioritized. Balance is prioritized naturally, physiologically. Taking about five to ten more breaths here, depending on how deeply you're breathing. So enjoy each one to the fullest, and be extremely discerning as to which thought you follow and which thought you allow to recede. And if you're so inclined, you can bring your hands together, your palms together, in gosho, you can place your fingertips right in front of your nose, about a fist away, and just take a moment to dedicate the benefit of this practice to all beings. Anyone you know who needs it, any community you know who's suffering and feel what happens in your chemistry when you move this benefit toward someone else and how it changes within you. And I want to thank you for your practice. Thank you, my G. I love you. I love you so much. Thank you for having me on.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It is such an honor. My moments with you are some of my favorite same.

[Alaina Brower]

Love you.