← The Dr. Josh Axe Show
The Dr. Josh Axe Show
Belly Fat, Metabolism & The Real Cause of Weight Gain | Dr. Ashley Lucas
00:51:53
Is weight gain really not your fault?
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- [00:00]
A
We're in a huge state of disease in the U.S. 88% of folks are metabolically unwell. Some research is upwards of 91% of us. I think the biggest misconception is that it's all about calories in and calories out, that it's our fault we're lazy and we lack willpower.
- [00:17]
B
I don't think people realize how much hormones play a role in being able to gain weight or lose weight.
- [00:23]
A
What I found is we experience these triggers, and these triggers change the way that our metabolism works. And I find that the trigger is something emotionally stressful, like a job out of college. It could be a marriage or a divorce or now having to perform and support a family. This fat actually grows its own blood vessels, it gets its own oxygen supply, and it starts to secrete hormones. All it wants to do is grow and get fatter as fast as possible, and it creates a lot of metabolic havoc. The main goal is to feed the fat. Then our brain doesn't get the signal that we've been fed. So physiologically, we're still starving inside. And that's, I believe, when we find ourselves standing in the pantry after dinner thinking, what can I eat now?
- [01:24]
B
Everyone, Dr. Axe, here, here. Welcome to the show. Well, today we're going to be talking about all things weight loss. We'll talk about peptides and weight loss. We'll talk about weight loss regarding the top foods, herbs and supplements and so much more. And today I've brought on one of the world's leading experts in weight loss, Dr. Ashley Lucas. She is a PhD in sports, science and weight loss. And she's just got an amazing background. She's a best selling author. And today we're going to dive into how to lose weight, burn fat, combat those hormones that are maybe keeping you from losing weight, and a number of things today as well. Dr. Ashley, welcome to the show.
- [02:00]
A
Thanks so much for having me.
- [02:01]
B
Well, hey, it's such an honor to have you on, you know, one of our most, you know, requested topics is weight loss. Because one, I think there's this element of people want to look good, but also people want to feel good. People know there's a link between obesity and chronic illness today. And I'd love for you to just share with us sort of the state today of weight loss and also maybe some surprising things regarding how weight loss isn't just a vanity thing where we want to look better, but it also affects a lot more than that.
- [02:31]
A
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, we're in a huge state of disease in the U.S. 88% of folks are metabolically unwell. I think some research is upwards of 91% of us struggling with some kind of metabolic condition like type 2 diabetes or pre diabetes, high blood pressure, sleep apnea, gout, all these inflammatory conditions impacting us. And we know statistics show that if we are struggling with obesity, we're at increased risk of developing over 200 different disease states. So I think there are discussions out there that we can be obese or overweight and still be healthy. However, it truly is linked to just such a significant increase of developing different types of diseases. Mental health is impacted when we're struggling with our weight.
- [03:20]
B
Yeah. What's probably the biggest misconception people have out there when it comes to being overweight?
- [03:26]
A
I think the biggest misconception is that it's all about calories in and calories out. That it's our fault, we're lazy, we lack self discipline, we lack willpower and that we simply just need to put less in our mouths and we need to move more. When you go to your, your physician and they say, you know, just eat less and move more and stop being lazy. But I find that the body is so much more complicated than that. So many clients come into us and they say, gosh, you know, I'm just not eating much and I have 80 pounds of excess fat mass on my frame. And I believe em, it just doesn't make sense from a calories in and out perspective. I'm not saying that we defy the law of thermodynamics, like it plays a part for sure. But there's a lot more going on.
- [04:11]
B
Yeah, you know, I remember I'm thinking back to when I was in undergrad and so before I went on to become a doctor and do that, I worked as a personal trainer. And so I remember I was at University of Kentucky and I was training there. And I remember this one girl, she would come in the gym and I remember just looking at her and thinking, well one, she would be in there two hours a day every day and she couldn't lose weight. And I remember even asking her one time because I was a trainer there, hey, what are you eating? And I actually remember even thinking to myself what she shared with me. I was like, it's actually pretty good or it sounds pretty healthy with a person like that because there's probably a lot of people out there and they want to lose weight, they're working hard, they're going to the gym, they're even eating what they think is healthy. What do you think with that type of person is typically the biggest reason why they're not losing weight?
- [05:05]
A
The biggest reason, I would say, is that they don't realize what's healthy for their body in that metabolic fat storage state that they're in. So I have clients come in like that all the time. I'm eating sweet potatoes, I'm eating organic yogurt. I'm eating all these things that are so healthy, and my husband or my spouse and my partner eats the same thing, and they're super lean, and it's just not fair, and it doesn't make sense, and I don't know what to do. And they're super frustrated. And I really do believe it's the type of food that they're eating. Hormones play a part. And if they're exercising too much, like it sounds like for this lady, some chronic cardio's in there and her metabolism is just in a state of stress.
- [05:49]
B
Yeah. You know, one of the things I think that in talking with her, I just, I. In looking back now. Right. Hindsight's 20 20, but thinking, I think her cortisol was very high. She just seemed like a very frantic, stressed out, trying to get something. She was an overachiever trying to do something every moment of every day. And I don't think people realize how much hormones play a role in being able to gain weight or lose weight. When you look at weight loss and hormones, what are the. Some of the biggest hormones? Maybe. Maybe there's a cascade in ranking order. But what are some of the biggest hormones that impact weight loss and weight gain?
- [06:23]
A
I mean, the biggest ones we see is cortisol, like you mentioned, stress, if that's elevated and if they have high fasting insulin levels, which the majority of people do, who are carrying this deep belly fat, this visceral fat. So if we can manipulate when they're eating, how they're eating the type of foods that they're eating, their lifestyle behaviors, and get both cortisol and get fasting insulin levels down, then we can see so much more ease and their body just is ready to release the fat.
- [06:52]
B
Yeah. You know, one of the things that I've compared this to, and tell me if you agree with this and your thoughts on this, is that those are the two hormones I mentioned as well. With almost every condition, it's like cortisol and insulin are essentially the dominoes. And if you hit those two dominoes over, it's like, okay, well, now you've got, you know, other adrenal hormones. You have thyroid hormones, you have progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, all the others start to topple over. You see the same thing.
- [07:15]
A
Yeah, I do. And the beautiful thing is if you can focus on the top two, then the others start to improve just naturally.
- [07:22]
B
That's right. And think about all the conditions here. So many women today. You know, when I was in school and I remember I first opened my practice doors and I had people start coming to see me. Nobody told me that pretty much every woman that was going to come in was going to have hormone imbalance or hypothyroidism. Right. I mean, that would sound sort of shocking. Is hypothyroidism, pcos, infertility, really strong menopausal symptoms, like all of these hormone issues, lack of sleep, and then men, of course, testosterone totally in the tank. And so that was one of my biggest surprises. And so having to figure out, well, how do I help change hormones was such a big factor. But of course, as you're saying, cortisol, insulin are really, really important factors. But all of these conditions, PCOS, it's called, I think they're calling it now, type 4 diabetes, you know, it's so connected to insulin. And so when you have a patient come in and you're working with them, what are some of the two of the things you start to do in order to start to alter and change that cortisol and that insulin?
- [08:21]
A
Yeah, the first thing we do is completely manipulate how they're eating, when they're eating, and the type of food that they're eating. So we create, depending upon the individual, where they are, the type of metabolic dysfunction that they have a customized meal plan guiding them on exactly what, when and how much to eat. So we make sure they're consuming adequate protein for their goals and their, we, we assess body composition. So how much muscle mass are they carrying, how much protein do they need, how much deep belly fat? That visceral fat is a really key thing we target and look at. And then from there we dictate their macros, making sure that carbs are underneath their unique carbohydrate tolerance level. I think the majority of us are consuming too many carbohydrates. I don't think we need to follow a ketogenic diet and be in deep ketosis. Although for a lot of people, I think cycling in and out of that, that's healthy for them. But we make sure that we're monitoring carbs, getting adequate fats in there. A lot of people come to us consuming fat free, low fat Things thinking that they need to consume diet foods to drop weight. I think that's another big myth that we seem to be getting out of a little bit. But a lot of people are locked into this fear of consuming fat, thinking that it'll cause us to get fat or increase our cholesterol.
- [09:46]
B
Yeah. You've used this term quite often that I use as well, but I want to define it for everybody or you to define it in terms of metabolic health, metabolic activity. When you're using that term, what is that? You can be pretty general with this. But what does that mean when we.
- [10:02]
A
Have good metabolic health? I would say that our body doesn't harbor excess fat. We're able to maintain this sweet spot in body composition where we've got this good amount of body fat. You know, our body fat percentages within healthy levels. We've got a good amount of muscle mass. It's not too low because a lot of people who are struggling with excess fat weight also don't have good muscle quality.
- [10:28]
B
Yeah.
- [10:29]
A
And then making, I would say also with good metabolic health, from a body composition standpoint, we don't have the deep belly fat. The visceral fat is gone.
- [10:37]
B
Yeah.
- [10:38]
A
And. And then what does that feel like? Well, it feels like no hunger or cravings. It's much of a more dull hunger. I know people have a good metabolic health when they can go throughout the day and not be ravenous. Yes, they get maybe hungry before a mealtime, but if no good food is there, they can keep going and they're okay. Yeah, they have good mental clarity, good focus, they are able to sleep decently. And they don't have just inflammation coursing through the body. That means they're going to be at lower risk of developing autoimmune conditions. Conditions. We have so many people come in and they think, oh, my gosh, this pain or the skin irritation, this autoimmune symptom is because of my autoimmune condition. And then they drop the weight, they lower the inflammation in their body and the autoimmune, you know, symptoms go away.
- [11:26]
B
Yeah.
- [11:27]
A
It was all weight related because when we're carrying excess fat weight, specifically the fat in the belly, we've got a, a high, low grade, or maybe baseline is the word I'm looking for. We've got this low baseline level of inflammation just coursing through the body.
- [11:42]
B
Yeah. So. So as we're talking about, you know, the liver, the gut microbiome, you know, one other area that, that really impacts weight loss and weight gain, that people don't realize is the fat itself. Yeah, right. So the belly fat acts like an organ. So, so, so, so talk about that.
- [12:00]
A
Yeah. I don't think people realize that it's our belly fat that's keeping us fat. So what I've found in my practice, and we've helped over 10,000 people at this point drop significant weight and keep it off. I think over £460,000 collectively nationwide, which is super fun. And with that, I've seen a lot of patterns and trends. So what I found is what happens in our life is we experience these triggers, and these triggers change the way that our metabolism works. So for women, oftentimes the trigger is something hormonally related, like pregnancy or puberty or menopause perimenopause. And they're like, what the heck is going on? I'm eating the same way I did before, and now I'm packing on the pound, specifically around the belly. It's not making sense. My doctor tells me, just eat less, move more, take some drugs. But it doesn't seem to be making the impact. For men, I find that the trigger is something emotionally stressful. So that could be, like, a job out of college. It could be a marriage or a divorce, or now having to perform and earn money and support a family. Like something stressful.
- [13:10]
B
That actually last one with men is the one I see the most.
- [13:13]
A
Is it?
- [13:13]
B
Yeah, I think so. I think for a lot of men. Well, let me. Let me give example. I was talking to a guy this week. He was 43. And when I saw him, he played college baseball, like, you know, really good fit guy. But his. I was talking to, he said, yeah, I. Hey, is there anything I can do? I've been on, you know, I just got on to testosterone replacement, and I don't like men getting on testosterone in their, you know, in their 40s. And. And so he was sharing that, but. And he was also like, my energy, just motivation, like, it was just all in the absolute tank. But I could tell, you know, he just had two young kids and. And, you know, just talking to him a little bit more, I felt like that was the. You know, that was the thing.
- [13:52]
A
Yeah, yeah. So. So we continue the way that we're used to, you know, and then we start to accumulate this fat in the belly.
- [13:59]
B
Yeah.
- [13:59]
A
And over time, what people don't realize is that this fat actually grows its own blood vessels. It gets its own oxygen supply, and it starts to secrete hormones. So this fat mass is like its own entity. And all it wants to do is grow and get fatter as fast as possible and it creates a lot of metabolic havoc in the body. We know research shows that when we carry this deep belly fat called visceral fat, that we start to develop dysfunctional partitioning of energy. So what I mean by that is, let's say you take in this breakfast, which a lot of us have been told this is a healthy breakfast. So I like to use this as an example. Steel cut oats. Something like is fancy about steel cuts oats, blueberries and like an organic vanilla yogurt. So, you know, someone takes that in and that's actually quite a bit of carbs and sugar, no protein in there. And so what happens is that energy, when you have this belly fat, it's going to go in and feed the fat first.
- [14:59]
B
Yeah.
- [15:00]
A
Right. So it partitions the energy. Like the main goal is to feed the fat. Then that energy doesn't go into the body, into the muscle cells the way that it should. So then our brain doesn't get the signal that we've been fed. So physiologically we're still starving inside. And that's, I believe, when we find ourselves standing in the pantry after dinner thinking, what can I eat now? You know, and then, and then people think, well, gosh, I just have no discipline or I have no willpower. I'm such a failure. When it has nothing to do with them at all. It's all hormonally driven by this thing that just wants to get fat as fast as possible.
- [15:38]
B
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely crazy. It's just a vicious cycle.
- [15:43]
A
It is.
- [15:44]
B
And until you break it, you'll just keep getting worse for the most part with so many people. Can tell you a few other things I find interesting. One, there is such a mindset component here.
- [15:52]
A
Yeah.
- [15:53]
B
Because when you start to feel this guilt and shame around failing and gaining fat and just the, you know, those, those things, you just start to feel bad about yourself, which makes you want to eat more. The other interesting thing about that, there's some theories in ancient Chinese medicine and Germany medicine where if somebody has those feelings a lot, essentially they're beating themselves up.
- [16:17]
A
Yeah.
- [16:17]
B
That actually triggers autoimmune disease because you're kind of essentially, autoimmune disease is a self affliction.
- [16:22]
A
That's right.
- [16:23]
B
And so there's these deep, deep emotional connections with all of these things.
- [16:28]
A
Yeah. I think commonly I'll hear clients say, oh my gosh, you know, I'm just doing everything right and it's just not moving. I'm Working so hard. And I use the exact same words. You've got to stop beating yourself up. You need to stop and, like, give yourself a hug.
- [16:43]
B
Yeah, that's right.
- [16:44]
A
And focus on the gain rather than the gap. Right, that's right. And I think it's hard. We just get stuck in this vicious cycle. So it's so important for if you're struggling with this or, you know, someone who is, to just give yourself a break.
- [16:57]
B
That's right.
- [16:58]
A
You know, and it's hard and it's complicated, and we've been told we need to do this on our own. Our stress levels are so high. And it is. It's this vicious cycle. This. This belly fat, it secretes interleukin 6, which is this major inflammatory hormone. So we were talking about inflammation, autoimmune conditions. You can take all the curcumin and turmeric in the world, but it's not going to touch this baseline level of inflammation being secreted by your own fat cells.
- [17:25]
B
Yeah. And listen, I'm a huge fan of herbal medicine. You mentioned turmeric, you know, Boswell, whatever it is, you can take. But unless you remove the root.
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A
That's right.
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B
You're going to stay chronically inflamed.
- [17:36]
A
You talk about men and testosterone. This fat mass secretes aromatase, which takes their testosterone, converts it into estrogen. So we see, folks, I mean, for many reasons, low testosterone, but they come in and their testosterone is so low, largely because they've got such this big fat mass turning their testosterone they do have into estrogen.
- [17:57]
B
One of the things that happens so commonly in the whole medical field and even weight loss field is that rather than getting to that thing that you really need to get to, we tend to do things that are more down, you know, just. Just downstream rather than upstream. And, you know, I was thinking about this as well. You know that there are so many people today who, again, have, you know, emotional trauma or they're trying to take supplements and a lot of those things. But really getting back to a diet that's personalized for them is really so key. And so you talked about that. You know, I. And I. And I found with men and women, typically, what they eat, there can be some major differences. Your activity level, your genetics. I mean, there are numerous things. One of the things that I get asked most about is fasting.
- [18:44]
A
Yeah.
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B
Now I'll share my perspective and feel free to share yours. Yeah. We had Dr. Mindy Peltz on here, who I respect greatly. She wrote a book called Fast Like a Girl. I generally don't see eye to eye with her on probably the level of fasting I found. And a big part of my background and study is more on sort of Chinese and Ayurvedic is more of these ancient forms of medicine. But I typically do not recommend big fast. Now I think breaking it down to like a 10 hour eating window where maybe you're eating later in the morning and then you're eating lunch and dinner still. And I try and have them eat an earlier dinner that I think is optimal for most people. Now I do think, and I've seen some men really thrive intermittent fasting and do well with it, but I've seen far less women thrive intermittent fasting. What's your view on fasting with men and with women and with weight loss?
- [19:31]
A
Yeah. So my suggestion overall is to give that 12 hour eating window. So for most of our clients we'll say finish dinner earlier if you can, maybe around 7, 7:30 and then eat your next meal at 7:30 in the morning just to give the body time. I do find that folks who we're working with have a slower metabolism at the beginning. So it just takes them longer to get into that fasting stage. Yeah.
- [19:57]
B
Oh, that's true. Yeah.
- [19:58]
A
So sometimes that can be helpful. So that's usually what we aim for. And then again it depends on the individual for a longer fast than that. I found like you, it's an added stressor for some women going longer than that. I also find that for us there's a large psychological component. And so folks don't eat, maybe they do a 16, eight fast. And what I mean by that is they don't eat for 16 hours and then they eat within an eight hour hour window and they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't eat breakfast, I didn't eat my snack, I need to get it all in. And then they end up overeating and like binging and compensating later in the day. So if we see clients go toward that trend, then we're like, hey, you know, it's just not, not right for you.
- [20:43]
B
Yeah.
- [20:43]
A
Or at this time in your journey. I think we need to be eating more consistently.
- [20:48]
B
Yeah. You know, another thing I know we've both seen is I've, we've seen women and men, but definitely more women metabolically injure themselves.
- [20:57]
A
Yeah.
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B
You know, and, and I, in part of, I mean, I know, like, I know we both feel like this. Like my heart goes out to so many of those women who they're just trying so hard.
- [21:05]
A
Yeah.
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B
I mean, they're trying so hard to lose weight. They're trying the diets, they're trying the fast. They're, you know, they. They heard the podcast and they're like, I need to just only eat one time a day and get in the infrared sauna and then, you know, do CrossFit for two hours. And they're actually damaging their bodies. So how do you start to fix and repair and actually heal this sort of metabolic damage that happens?
- [21:30]
A
I mean, that's my background. I was a professional ballet dancer. I chronically under 8. I was injured all the time and still too heavy for the sport. So that's what I went on and earned my PhD studying exactly that. Energy metabolism. Do we really depress our metabolic rate by not eating? And yes, the answer is yes, we do. Significantly. I actually pair matched a group of ballet dancers to sedentary, kind of recreationally active controls. They had the same amount of muscle mass, so you would think that their resting metabolic rate would be similar. Actually, you would think the dancers would be slightly higher because they were more active. But they chronically under 8. And so their resting metabolic rate, the number of calories that they burned doing nothing during the day was about 36 to 800 calories lower than the recreationally active people who ate more and moved less.
- [22:24]
B
I mean, think about that. 600 to 800 calories less they're burning a day due to this metabolic injury.
- [22:30]
A
Yeah, we see the same thing in the Biggest Loser contestants. You know, there was a study that came out measuring their metabolic rate before the show and then after the show, and it was depressed by 800 calories.
- [22:43]
B
You know, it's funny. I talked to Jillian Michaels about this recently, and she said, you know, it was a show. She didn't like the way that it was necessarily set up. She knew it wasn't the best for the people. And there are studies on looking at how many of them gained the weight back, but it was entertainment for television.
- [23:00]
A
Yeah, well, they looked at their metabolic rate. I think it was eight years later, and it was still low. But there are things that you can do to get it back. And number one is to slowly increase the number of calories that you're consuming, increase the calories from the right types of food, because all calories are not equal. And I think that's where we run into trouble. We're just like, okay, I just need to eat more of whatever. It doesn't matter. It could be Snickers bars. I mean, I know. We know that. Yeah, yeah, know that. But so making sure that we're feeding our body the right type, what would.
- [23:36]
B
That look like for protein, fat and carbs? Like just, just for your average person?
- [23:40]
A
I would say, well, if we're, if we're looking to drop weight, I would say for protein, about 0.8 grams of protein per pound. Ideal body weight. So if right now you're £180 and your target weight, where you don't have this belly fat anymore is 130 pounds, then you'd multiply 130 times 0.8. I'm not great at.
- [24:01]
B
So it's close to 50 grams three times daily.
- [24:03]
A
Okay, thank you. Yeah, so I would say getting that in and then just, I would say again, it depends on your gender and fitness level on how many carbs. But I'd say if weight loss is a goal, probably around 80 grams a day or so. I don't think we need much more than that. And then I use fat to fill in the rest. So if you're hungry, then you need more fat. If you have cravings, I find you need more dietary fat.
- [24:32]
B
Let me ask you about this. One of the things that I typically do when I do dietary plans for people with weight losses. I try to do more carbs earlier in the day and more fat later in the day. And I try not to have too many carbs and fat at the same meal. And I just think, because sometimes, to your point earlier, what I, what I have, people classically do, it's like oatmeal and peanut butter.
- [24:50]
A
Yes. You know, they're like, I'm getting protein from the peanut butter.
- [24:53]
B
That's right. And they think it's like, well, you got like 5 grams there. It's not the 50. You got 1/10 of what you need there.
- [24:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And you know, watching plant based is difficult because it's just so high carb. You know, beans and lentils, you guys are not a good source of protein.
- [25:10]
B
Yeah.
- [25:10]
A
You'd have to eat like six cups of beans.
- [25:13]
B
I mean, when I think about those, I typically think of those more of the carb in the meal.
- [25:17]
A
Yeah.
- [25:17]
B
Than I do the, the protein.
- [25:19]
A
That's right.
- [25:20]
B
Yeah.
- [25:20]
A
I think there's a misconception around there.
- [25:22]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree. You know, one other thing I want to mention that I've seen pretty frequently. I'm curious about yourself. Is that there are a lot of people that are on conventional medications, a lot of women on contraceptive drugs. There's a study that came out that Said that women who have taken contraceptive drugs for long term have a 287% increased risk of hypothyroidism. One of the reasons is contraceptive drugs deplete your body of almost every B vitamin, magnesium, good, good bacteria and then it causes methylation issues. So that's just one. And then there's also a lot of women on antidepressants and anti anxiety drugs. There's a lot who've taken at some point antibiotics. Of course that's going to affect the gut microbiome. Is this something that you sort of look at with people? And also sometimes you have to focus on helping heal and repair some of these nutritional deficiencies and some of maybe these, these organs that have been been harmed over time as well?
- [26:18]
A
Yeah, I think that that's a significant component in our practice. We don't focus on that because I do find when we can get lifestyle in order to and we can help fix the diet, that a lot of the items heal on themselves. And then that's kind of phase two is going that route and seeing what's left and what do we need to adjust moving forward. So we focus on phase one mainly from a nutrition component, lifestyle component, see what we can heal from there. But I agree with you. My husband's in the field of bone health and is looking at oral contraceptives.
- [26:51]
B
And he's an osteopath.
- [26:52]
A
That's right, yeah. And looking at the negative impacts on that from a bone health perspective. And that's significant as well.
- [26:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is, yeah. I mean, we do nutritional testing and we just see people with just major nutritional deficiencies. Vitamin D being the biggest. I mean, there was a study recently that came out said 94% of people are vitamin D deficient and vitamin D is in critical for hormone formation, for bone formation, for mood, for so many of these things. And so. But you know, when it comes to weight loss, I think that these supplements are definitely beneficial. You know, there's things like green tea extract and apple cider vinegar and things I think that move the needle a little bit, but nothing comparison to just making good lifestyle changes. And a couple of things we talked about too, and via, we kind of alluded to. We started off talking a little bit about stress and you mentioned sleep once. Talk to me about how stress and sleep impact weight gain and what people need to do in terms of improving those areas for weight loss.
- [27:51]
A
Yeah, it's huge. We'll see again, clients come in, I'm eating everything right. You know, we'll look at their meal plan, see what's happening, and then we'll dig in and say, okay, you know, how are you sleeping? And it's not good. And we can move the dial on that. And then the body starts to release the fat weight again. Sleep is imperative because it's during sleep where our hormones that help to regulate hunger and metabolism and fat burn are regulated. So I think research shows that anything less than 6.5 hours per night is considered short sleep. Sleep.
- [28:24]
B
Yeah.
- [28:24]
A
We can see testosterone's lower in both women and men when we don't sleep. There was a study looking at a group of individuals who slept more than seven hours and compared to a group who slept less than seven. And the group who slept more was able to eat more and weighed less than the group who slept less. So it's just a big issue. And I know it's hard, especially in today's life style of always go, go, go, but sleep is really imperative, especially if you're struggling with weight loss. You need to take a look at that.
- [28:56]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great advice.
- [28:58]
A
Yeah. And then ways to help it. Well, it's really interesting. When you shift the diet and you're able to reduce inflammation and get insulin down, you actually start to sleep better.
- [29:07]
B
Yeah.
- [29:08]
A
So I hear that from clients all the time. Within the first few weeks, we can see huge improvements in our sleep. Other tips would be complete. I would say creating a routine where you go to bed at the same time and wake up at the same time, or, you know, treating your body kind of like you would an infant with a specific schedule. Not looking at blue lights before you go to bed and using, say, I don't know, blue light blocking glasses. Yeah, I have. I use this acronym, 10, 3, 2, 1, 0. So 10 is the hours before bed where you want to stop consuming caffeine.
- [29:44]
B
Yeah.
- [29:44]
A
Caffeine has a different half life for different people, genetically determined. And sometimes even when we drink caffeine in the morning, we'll still have some of that caffeine residual left over when it's bedtime. Three hours before bed, no more food or alcohol. Two hours before bed, no more screens. One hour before bed, no more work. And then zero is the time that you'll hit the snooze button the next day.
- [30:08]
B
That's good.
- [30:09]
A
So I think sleep is huge. And then stress. Stress is really big, especially when. So stress is interesting. I think in today's society, we have a perspective around stress, that it's negative. We have a negative connotation. And when we have that our body secretes cortisol when we have elevated insulin levels. With elevated cortisol, it creates this hormonal cascade that actually brings our fat from the rest of the body into the belly and helps to store that deep, visceral, active belly fat. It stimulates the body to secrete hormone sensitive lipase. And that I imagine that hormone like this vacuum sucker that lives on the fat cells in our belly and it just sucks in more fat.
- [30:53]
B
Wow.
- [30:54]
A
So that also increases when we have lower estrogen levels in women. So when we go through perimenopause and menopause, we've got elevated cortisol, elevated hormone sensitive lipase, and if we have elevated insulin levels, it's just like this perfect storm to store more fat in the belly.
- [31:11]
B
Yeah. And there are ways. You know, one thing we mentioned many pills earlier. One of the things I like about her program is that she has women eat based on their cycle. And so there are certain foods for like more liver detoxifying foods and herbs like dandelion greens and beets and artichokes and turmeric and milk. This what one part because of where estrogen levels are, there's harder workouts when estrogen is higher, more that peak phase of the cycle and then it's lower carb during, you know, during the, the beginning and the end of the cycle and those estrogen levels are lower. But I think there's a lot to be learned from that. For women that are perimenopausal and menopausal in terms of they actually typically need to even bring the carbs down even.
- [31:51]
A
More sometimes I find that is the case.
- [31:55]
B
Yeah. What's it, you know, in Chinese medicine too, there are foods that support estrogen and progesterone production. And it is a lot of things like, I mean yams are high on the list. Certain types of things like chickpeas, pumpkin seeds and then you know, a lot of cruciferous vegetables. Those are very good for kind of getting rid of like phytoestrogen so your body can make sure estrogen production on its own. And again, you know, there's, there's all kinds of. What is your view on supplements in terms of for, for weight loss support?
- [32:27]
A
Yeah. So number one is eating a nutrient dense diet.
- [32:30]
B
Yeah.
- [32:30]
A
If you're open to adding red meat. Organ meats I think are really helpful in like nature's vitamin eating. Eggs, whole eggs with the yolk. I think a lot of folks come in with eating egg beaters and you know, fat free cream or in Their coffee. So I think number one is eating a good nutrient dense diet. I do recommend for our clients if they're dropping 40 plus pounds to take at least a multivitamin to cover their bases. I think like you said, the majority of people are deficient in vitamin D. There is something, and I haven't researched this a ton, but just taking a supplementation, I've seen that it skips the cascade of natural events when we actually get vitamin D and make it from the sun. So I've been recommending and utilizing a vitamin D lamp where it helps the body go through the whole cascade of converting to the active form of the body.
- [33:28]
B
It's not quite the same. It's not.
- [33:30]
A
Yeah.
- [33:30]
B
The way that I view it is, is that there ain't nothing like the real thing. Right. It's like you need to be getting the real thing. And I love the lamp idea. I think that's, that's a great idea. I think that if somebody's chronically deficient though, and they're just not getting sun. But, but, but I think the lamp for everybody is that, you know, I had a, I think especially with people like psoriasis, I mean, a number of, you know, some of these issues, it's probably even more beneficial. But I, yeah, I totally agree with that. And I totally agree. Supplements are for supplementing an already healthy diet.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah. You know, magnesium, Magnesium is another one. I think, what, 75% of Americans are deficient in magnesium.
- [34:06]
B
Yeah.
- [34:07]
A
The body utilizes more of these compounds and minerals when it's going through the process of dropping weight. You know, it's a, it's a taxing process for the body when we're losing weight.
- [34:18]
B
You know, one thing I've had, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this. I've had several people I know who after losing a lot of weight, had heart issues or gallbladder issues, especially if they tried to lose weight on a ketogenic diet. Those are the biggest people. Why does that happen?
- [34:42]
A
The body is just being taxed so much. If they go through it through severe calorie restriction, if they're doing it in a way where it's fat free, low fat foods and they're not getting the vitamins and minerals that the body needs. I think it's just a shock to the body.
- [34:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. In my opinion is, it's, it's a stressor. So your body is having to deal with your liver and gallbladder in particular are having to deal with breaking down and eliminating all this fat. And if it isn't able to do that efficiently. Well, you're, it can affect our, the, the, the, the cardiovascular system, the heart and the arteries and increase your risk of actually a heart attack and stroke. So I think that's one thing that happens. And the other thing is again, I think a ketogenic diet actually makes it worse for some people who lose a lot of weight because again, they're having to break down all the fat in the food, all their own body fat. And so the gallbladder is just being absolutely overwhelmed there in that case. And it's not to say you shouldn't lose weight, but I think this is a time where it's like if you do the ketogenic diet in the way of all butter and all bacon, now you're just adding more nutritional deficiencies to your diet versus if you're doing it where like you're eating a good quality diet like you recommend, it's just lower glycemic, it's not keto, but your fats are extra virgin olive oil and wild salmon and avocado. Your body can break those down easier. They're very anti inflammatory. So your liver isn't also having to deal with this inflamed system at the same time. So it's a little less stressful on the, on the body. Yeah, yeah. So I do think that if you're gonna follow a diet doing it your way, the way that we teach with, it's real food, it's nutrient dense food. Because if you're just doing a diet to lose weight and you're just, again, you're just cutting calories and you're eating high protein and that's great and you're doing low carb, the nutritional deficiencies will catch up with you somewhere and so you just gotta be, everybody needs to be careful with those. What are your views on so many people today? Of course the biggest, the most searched term right now with weight loss, I'm going to ask you is related to what?
- [36:43]
A
GLP1.
- [36:44]
B
Oh, wow. I didn't have. Yeah, GLP1. GLP1. What are your views on GLP1 for weight loss?
- [36:50]
A
I'm not the biggest fan of them. I think that there can be a time and a place, you know, and I, I have maybe, I wouldn't say it's a biased perspective, but I see every day hundreds of people dropping weight without them just as fast in a sustainable fashion where they're not just impacting their physical health but also their mental and emotional health. I believe weight loss is a Process of letting go. It's letting go of the excess fat weight that no longer serves us, but also the emotions that are tied to it, and they go in tandem with each other. So I just don't think these GLP1 drugs get to the root cause of the issue. And for the majority of people, it's just a matter of time until the weight comes back.
- [37:38]
B
That's right. And have you seen the studies on the amount of muscle people are losing on GLP1?
- [37:43]
A
Yeah. Significant, what, 40 to 45% for some people, coming from muscle mass. I actually had ChatGPT help me with the math on this. I was like, okay, if someone drops X number of pounds, but about 45 to 49% of it's coming from muscle, and then they gain 70% of it back, because that's what most people do within a year of getting off the drugs, then what is their weight? What's their predicament? Well, they're actually about 8 to 10 pounds fatter than they were to begin.
- [38:11]
B
With after getting on GLP1 because of the side effects. Wow. Wow.
- [38:15]
A
So I. I don't know. I just think we need to be careful. Maybe if someone has a BMI of greater than 40, severe metabolic disease, that could be a time and a place. I do see those people create changes without them too.
- [38:27]
B
Yeah.
- [38:28]
A
But for those of us who don't have that situation at hand, we can do this in a way where we don't take these drugs with side effects.
- [38:39]
B
That's right. And if you want to take some of them, there's so many things that actually benefit your health. Right. And that's not one of them. I've seen this trend with people that are more integrative doctors, where they're doing more micro dosing, where they're doing about one tenth of dose. And of course, I like that better because it's less of it. And then of course, if you're combining that with weight training, training and high protein, that's all gonna, you know, it's gonna diminish some of that, those effects of the muscle loss. But overall, still, I would rather somebody. If you're gonna take something, take an omega 3, take a probiotic, take berberine, take, you know, just add some cinnamon to your smoothie. You know, let's do some of these things that are. That are actually healthier for you. And in a way, they help weight loss to a degree too. You know, those are. Those are. Those are better options. The other thing is, I think there's some people psychologically that start to feel like, oh, okay, I lost weight with GLP1, but that was why I lost the weight. You know, there's this thing where it's like they didn't do it themselves versus they go out there, they made the dietary change, the lifestyle change. It's sort of this identity shift that happens.
- [39:47]
A
Yeah. We see a lot of people coming in and they're panicked because they've either one, gotten off the drugs and the weights coming back even faster or number two, they're on the drugs thinking, what the heck am I going to do when I get off these? Because I don't want to be on them forever.
- [40:02]
B
Yeah, right.
- [40:04]
A
And so helping those people, being able to, like you said, feel self sufficient and having the behavioral habits, behaviors, the emotional aspects associated with weight loss, seeing that happen in tandem with the physical weight dropping is really important to being able to keep it off for good. Yeah, I think 80% of the journey comes from the mind. So we can't just focus on the physical weight with these drugs and then think we're going to be able to keep it off.
- [40:34]
B
Yeah, let's talk about that for a minute because you and I both know we have people that come in sometimes that we work with and they know what to do. Right. But sometimes they don't do it.
- [40:52]
A
So I look at successful weight loss being two parts. Part one is the physical weight and part two is the emotional weight. And oftentimes we go through a weight loss journey thinking that we're seeing success because the scale's moving down. But if we don't let go of the emotional heaviness, then it's just a matter of time until the weight comes back. So we focus a lot on the mental and emotional, the habits and behaviors. And usually there's something maybe trauma from the past, maybe some reason why they don't actually want to get to this lower weight. Or maybe it's even subconsciously there's something negative tied to the past. When they weighed that, that number that's inhibiting them to let go of the weight.
- [41:43]
B
How often do people see like a counselor or and have them start to work through past emotional trauma? More of the mental and emotional aspect.
- [41:55]
A
We meet with folks one on one every week and we talk a lot about the behavioral aspects associated with change and with dropping weight. But we're not therapists, so we often recommend that probably 85% of the time to be able to dig through past emotions.
- [42:13]
B
Yeah, but so much of it comes down, as you mentioned, just your habits. What are you doing On a regular basis, day to day. What do you do when you wake up? What do you do around lunch? What do you do around dinner? So it's meals, but it's also these rhythms in life that are. That are so important. You know, one of the things when I think back, so when I started eating much healthier was in college and I. I did more of that bodybuilder diet, you know, lifted weights a good amount, and then would do, you know, five meals, six meals a day of, like, chicken breast and broccoli and, you know, just the most boring, you know, bland diet of all time. And. And so I did that. But over time, it just got to. It was tiresome. And then finally I'm like, you know what? I'm just. I'm going to eat healthy and started really enjoying it and just having good, healthy habits and rhythms. And then it was like, you know, that. And then I'm still doing that today. You know, it made it sustainable. The other thing I couldn't be doing still wasn't even, you know, that diet. I couldn't. You know, I couldn't. I couldn't have kept that up.
- [43:07]
A
You talk about in your book, think this, not that, about creating, like, changing your story and creating a new identity. And it sounds like to me that's kind of what you were doing, right? You were changing your identity from that bodybuilder identity to someone who just eats well and enjoys it. And that's my number one action step for clients to come in, is to create that new identity and live within it now as if it's a reality. So who is that person? Why are you doing this? And who is that person you're becoming? And act as if that's right. I think that's so huge. You know, what would that person have in their pantry? What would they keep in their fridge? What would they do when they wake up? What would they do during their lunch break? And if we can think about that and become that new identity now, it's so much easier to live in alignment with those standards and with those values.
- [44:01]
B
You know, there's a study, and I think it was out of Duke, but basically it said something. The study was basically, if you hang out with healthier people, you'll be healthier. I mean, that was the gist of it. If you hang out with a person that's going to the gym and eating the healthy meals, I mean, it was like the single greatest factor that improves somebody's weight loss and their fitness level. And so I think for a Lot of those people. The reason why I started doing those things was people I really admired were doing those things. And I was just modeling. I was thinking of a few doctors, Dr. Charles Major, Dr. Ben Lerner and others. And I'm like, okay, I want to be like them. I want to do what they do. And so I just started incorporating those habits. And so that's one shift maybe a lot of people probably need to make is look at your friend group, look at the group you're running around with. And if you want to uplevel your health, maybe you're finding some different friends and people to encourage you and to work out with or eat with or to have the same interest that you have, which is being healthy and having a life of vitality. And so I think that's such a game changer for a lot of people. Is that community aspect, that accountability aspect as well.
- [45:04]
A
Yeah. Your environment is always stronger than your willpower. And in your book, I think you mentioned community. And it is so important. I find that with our clients, too, that community, and having other people who. Who value being healthy.
- [45:19]
B
Yeah.
- [45:19]
A
Because it is really hard when you're going through this journey and your spouse doesn't understand or, you know, doesn't support your decision to eat something healthy for dinner, you know, and keeps pushing back. It's difficult. So having that community around you is really important. Understanding how to overcome social pressure.
- [45:38]
B
Yeah. You know, I mean, I can remember that back years ago. You know, it was like when I was trying to eat that super clean in college and go into, like, a Mexican restaurant and thinking, like, gosh, I want the guacamole, but I shouldn't, because that's not in my macros and those sort of issues. And so it's. It's hard.
- [45:56]
A
Yeah.
- [45:56]
B
You know, it's hard. But, yeah, you shift. You shift the people you're around. It becomes. It becomes a whole lot easier. So much easier. What do we miss with weight loss? Anything else that we really need to talk about? Because I think, by the way, you've done such an amazing job. We talked a lot about some diet and the foods and the things not to do and the mindset, and I think a lot of great things, sleep and stress. Is there anything else that people need to be aware of when it comes to losing weight?
- [46:25]
A
Yeah, maybe two things. Number one is for a lot of people, not for everyone, but for a lot of people, weight loss is like an addiction recovery process. And people come into us not realizing that they're just completely addicted to sugar or Addicted to whatever those foods might be. The salty, crunchy kind of tortilla chips, I'll give as a common example. And we're told that you just need to eat everything in moderation.
- [46:52]
B
Yeah.
- [46:53]
A
And for a lot of people, they just can't eat in moderation. I'll have so many people come in and say, I know what to do. I need to eat a quote, unquote balanced diet. Well, I question, what is a balanced diet? You know, it's not what the USDA says is balanced. That's going to create addiction and, you know, metabolic disease. And then they say, I just need to eat everything in moderation. I know that. And that's not the case. It is recognizing. What are those trigger foods for you? What are those gateway foods? And I would define a trigger food as something that once you start, you can't stop or it opens the door to eating everything else.
- [47:28]
B
I'm so glad you're bringing this up because, you know, one of the things I've noticed in practice is like, and I don't do this anymore, but I used to do shopping tours and I. And I would also, one of the first things I would give people is a replacement food list. When you're craving this, do this instead. Right.
- [47:46]
A
What was a common food that people would crave for you?
- [47:50]
B
Well, I would say, I mean, there's no doubt bread and chips and those sort of carbs are at the highest point on the list. So I would say rather than these chips, do these chips. I mean, so one example would be rather than potato chips, do sliced vegetables with hummus. We would try and give them those issues. Or if you're craving this dessert right here, I want you to do this dark chocolate protein powder with, you know, a quarter of an avocado or half an avocado and do this instead. And so I'd really. We'd really. And sometimes we'd ask people, and we still do this, like, what's, what's your favorite food? Like, what is that thing? Let's try and find the closest equivalent to that thing that's going to really satisfy that. That desire you have. How about, how about for you? What have you noticed?
- [48:35]
A
Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, nature abhors a vacuum, right? So if you just say, I'm just not going to eat that and I'm not going to eat anything, then it's slowly going to fill back up, likely with the old habits and behaviors that were not successful for goals. So, yeah, we usually give substitutes as well. And then also Telling folks that it's okay to say no to certain foods, you know, that doesn't mean that you're restricting yourself. It doesn't mean that you're in a state of deprivation. But I think saying no is a form of self respect. I think it's about saying, you know, getting rid of the foods that you say you love that don't love you back anymore. It's like a bad relationship for a lot of people with these foods. And it's actually a good thing and a form of self respect and self love. If you say no to certain foods that don't serve you, doesn't mean that you have to say no forever.
- [49:26]
B
Yeah.
- [49:26]
A
You know, there might be a time and a place where you're more metabolically flexible, the body knows how to burn fat for fuel, where you can eat that food in a state of moderation.
- [49:34]
B
Yeah.
- [49:35]
A
But for some people, I know, like a Quaker chewy bar just sends them off and they like, just say no, we're going to say no to that food. You deserve so much more than that.
- [49:45]
B
Yeah. Yeah. That's good. It's so good. Well, actually, I want to say thanks so much for coming on today. It's been a joy and I know that everybody's learned so much. I've learned some amazing things as well. And again, this is such an important topic because being overweight, even the. I remember reading a study on the average weight gain, which is around £20 for a lot of people, what that does to your increased risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, depression, almost every condition is really, really just shocking. And so for people to be able to lose the weight, not only are you losing weight, you're changing your identity. You're shifting your entire future and even your kid's future, people see that. One of the things we had a kid's birthday, my daughter just turned five and we had a friend over and I know she lost 25 pounds and it's just like, way to go, you know, you know, celebrating what they've done because that's a big change and it takes a lot of, you know, you know, my whole mind shift for a lot of people in doing that. But where can people find more about you and your incredible work?
- [50:47]
A
Yeah, it would be our website, myphdweightloss.com I've got my book on there. You can get or following me on Instagram or Facebook @ Dr. Ashley Lucas. Those would be the best places.
- [51:01]
B
Perfect. Well, Dr. Ashley, thanks so much for coming on. And everybody, hey, thank you so much for being part of the show. Listen, there are so many people who need to burn fat but do it the right way like Dr. Ashley teaches. Want to encourage you. Hey, thank you all of you for sharing this episode. Whether it's on social media. Every time you do that, you're helping spread the message. You're helping heal the planet, which is what we're trying to do, heal people on the planet here. And also thank you all of you subscribers here. If you're not subscribed, make sure to subscribe. We've got some incredible interviews coming your way and if you're watching on YouTube, let us know what is that biggest piece of wisdom that Dr. Ashley shared with you that you took away or hey, what's your experience been with gaining weight or losing weight, something you agreed with or didn't agree with? Let us know here as part of the show. Hey, thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode.