← The Dr. Josh Axe Show
The Dr. Josh Axe Show
Cellular Health EXPERT: How to Build Bulletproof Cells for Energy, Detox & Longevity
00:54:20
What if your fatigue, hormone issues, or detox struggles all stem from one root cause: unhealthy cells?
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- [00:04]
A
When did making plans get this complicated?
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B
It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no.
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A
One forgets mom 60th and never miss.
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B
A meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption.
- [00:24]
A
It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com maybe fish oil is not all it's cracked up to be.
- [00:34]
B
I would say they now estimate like 90% of fish oil on the markets rancid and oxidized.
- [00:39]
A
What are some of your favorite seed oils and why are seed oils so important?
- [00:43]
B
Getting the right seeds, walnuts, pumpkins, sunflower flax. In times when you need more Omega 6. Also adding in evening primrose oil in a really pure source can be really helpful.
- [00:53]
A
One of my other favorites, and I heard you once call this a natural ozempic and it's walk us through what is and how does that work on the body.
- [01:05]
B
It's the molecule your gut was designed to make. The problem in today's world is that our guts are completely disrupted.
- [01:10]
A
Talk to me about the cell membrane. What is it? Why is it important? And what are some things people need to do in order to start healing their cell membrane?
- [01:18]
B
So if you have low energy, it's not from lack of sleep or lack of nutrients. It's because your mitochondria is not functioning correctly. And we need to protect and make ourselves more resilient in today's world because disease and health issues and toxicities, they are directly impacting our cells and our cell membrane.
- [01:36]
A
If you had to give me your top five or seven or any number you want to pick of longevity foods or mitochondrial foods. What are some of your favorites? What if nature had an ozempic? We're going to talk about that today. What if seed oils are are actually good for you and what if some fish oils are bad for you? Well, we're going to cover those topics and so many more on today's episode. We're going to cover a lot of different supplements and foods and detoxification protocols I've never talked about on the show today. And today I've brought in one of the world's leading experts, Jess Kane Berman. She is the co owner of Body Bio and we're going to dive deep into all these topics and so much more on today's show. Jess, welcome to the show.
- [02:45]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
- [02:46]
A
Well, I'm excited to talk. I know that you have spent a lot of your career, and not only your career, like you learned from your parents and your grandparents about cellular health. And not a lot of people can say that they've been in an industry since birth.
- [03:01]
B
No, it's true. And it's been, like, ingrained in my life since we were born. My grandfather was always the biohacker that was taking us out to a farm, taking us to get specific meats, taking us to find organic produce when we couldn't get it nearby. So he was always kind of weaving this through our life. And this idea that food is nutrition and food is medicine was so important to us growing up.
- [03:19]
A
You know, I love it. You know, one of the things that I discovered when my mom had cancer and I spent just thousands and thousands of hours researching how to help my mom heal, was I started getting turned on to something called Budwig Protocol.
- [03:31]
B
Yeah, Joanna.
- [03:32]
A
Yeah. And so with the Budwig Protocol, as I was doing all this research and understanding the mechanism by which it worked in the body, she believed that one of the keys to healing cancer was flooding the cell with oxygen. And in order to get oxygen in the cell, you had to repair the cell membrane. And this is something I've heard you talk about very frequently. In fact, you probably as much as anyone I've ever heard talk about health, has really focused on this one area of the cell, the cell membrane. Talk to me about the cell membrane. What is it? Why is it important? And what are some things people need to do in order to start healing their cell membranes?
- [04:07]
B
I think Joanna Budwig was an incredible researcher, and her focus was really on the levels of omega. And I think she'd be astonished at the way we treat seed oils now. These are essential fatty acids that we need for ourselves. I think where she missed the mark was actually what makes up our cell membrane are phospholipids. Essential fatty acids are part of it. But the predominant part of our cell membrane, which is a bilipid layer that acts as this very delicate bubble, just like the bubbles that your kids blow. Super delicate bubble that protects all of these organelles within the cells, like the nucleus and the mitochondria and the endoplasmic reticulum. And all these things we forget about from biology in high school, they're super critical and important. I mean, your mitochondria is literally your energy production. So if you have low energy, it's not from lack of sleep or lack of nutrients. It's because your mitochondria is not functioning correctly. And we need to protect and make our cells more resilient in today's world because disease and health issues and toxicities, they are directly impacting our cells and our cell membrane.
- [05:09]
A
Yeah, well, Joanna Budwig actually did one of the things that her theory was, you have to heal the cell membrane, and that is due to both getting essential fatty acids and the phospholipids. And so her meal was this combination of. And this is what my mom did every day. Well, it was flaxseed with fermented cork. And cork is a type of high fat fermented dairy, almost like a cottage cheese meets a yogurt. Something like this is more concerned in Europe. And so she believed that getting those fermented phospholip that you would find in the full fat, raw organic dairy and combining those with the essential fatty acids, you're going to find in the flax. And so what a lot of people don't realize, I know, as you've taught people too, over the years, is that, like when people think about the essential parts of our body, there are essential fatty acids, there are essential amino acids. Part of what makes up our cells are. And it's a close combination of essential fatty acids and these phospholipids that actually, again, make up our cells. But there really are no essential carbohydrates, you know. And so now, even though I do think we need carbohydrates to be our healthiest in the right proportions, but overall, these things are so critical. And one of the things that you've really focused on is making sure people are getting these things that are essential in their diet. Walk me through. What do you think some of the most essential things are in our diet that most people are missing today?
- [06:30]
B
I think we're really devoid of healthy fats and oils. I call them healthy fats, but really you and I know they're oils, right? They're things that are not solid at room temperature. And I think that the war that we've taken on polyunsaturated fats is damaging our health because I think we need these essential fats. People are now afraid to eat raw seeds. I mean, raw seeds are critical. They're so important to our health because we don't make essential fatty acids in the body. And phospholipids, you know, people have become, they can't digest eggs, they're avoiding meats, or they're eating only meats. And so we're going with these very kind of extreme versions. I think, because we have so much access to so much information these days. And oftentimes that information is it may lead us down a path that may not be providing our body with the essential nutrients that they need.
- [07:14]
A
Well, you know, to your point, one of the things I hear people say a lot and I try and always put a disclaimer with it, is that, hey, stay away from seed oils. That's not true. Yeah, that's a false narrative. You want to stay away from highly processed, ultra processed seed oils.
- [07:30]
B
Exactly.
- [07:30]
A
But think about, you know, and I've studied a lot of ayurvedic medicine. Like they used a lot of sesame oil. You know, you look at it, I mentioned the Butterwick Protocol, a cancer, one of the best cancer protocols out there. They're using flaxseed oil. And so I think a lot of these oils. And then I also think about ayurvedic medicine. One of the things they do for women's hormones is something called seed cycling. So there are certain seeds you consume, like pumpkin seed, I do to support. There you go. Progesterone, others for estrogen, like flax. So what are some of your favorite seed oils and why are seed oils so important?
- [08:03]
B
I mean, I am a true believer in if you look at the essential fatty acid pathway, the two mother essential fatty acids are linoleic acid, which you've got the war against right now, and alpha linolenic acid. And the downstream metabolites of those are EPA and dha. It's very rare that you're going to get enough EPA and DHA from flax. So that's when people start supplementing with fish oil. You supplement with too much fish oil, it's going to throw the whole pathway off. And so taking a step back and just looking at it from the source of how do we get the right amount of linoleic, the right amount of alpha linolenic and the right amount of fish oil from diet, I think is so critical. And getting the right seeds, walnuts, pumpkins, sunflower, flax, in times when you need more Omega 6, also adding in evening primrose oil and a really pure source can be really helpful.
- [08:52]
A
And that's one of those progesterone boosters. Like I remember my wife Chelsea, when she's getting close to giving birth with our last two kids, she started doing actually evening primrose oil or borage oil at the very end of pregnancy. Why does that work?
- [09:07]
B
It helps to actually stimulate, I mean, our cell membranes and particularly our very membrane rich liver are where hormones are produced. And so we need these fats that are so critical to the cell membrane to. To produce those hormones, to regulate those hormones. But in particular, EPO will help induce labor. And so it really is a very powerful. When used correctly, these nutrients are so powerful. And I think sometimes we just don't think of them that way. We kind of throw supplements out or maybe say, like, the food that I'm eating is so heavily processed that we've, like, become disillusioned and kind of separated from our food. And I think that's a really important thing, is to bring it back and realize that these things are really building our body and our health when you put them in your body.
- [09:53]
A
Yeah, yeah. I think for the narrative around omega 3s, I do think we need way more omega 3s. I do want to. I want to throw that out there, but I think that somebody doesn't have to worry about eating a handful of. You know, like this morning I was doing. I always try to eat based on my body constitution. And so I do something in Chinese medicine where I look at the health of my tongue. I see an acupuncturist regularly as well, and look at blood work as well. And so, like, I'm doing black sesame right now because it's really good for blood building. That's one thing I'm trying to do in the season. And so I just took a big tablespoon in this morning. I also got hemp seeds. I've got flaxseeds. So I do affair in pumpkin, a lot of pumpkin seeds. And so I do quite a few seeds. And, you know, I think one other sort of thing I wanted to mention again is that I think so many people have just sort of moved away from nuts and seeds altogether due to the narrative around seed oils. But again, it's the processing that is damaging. A lot of these essential fatty acids, as you're talking about it is.
- [10:54]
B
And I think we've covered a decent amount on essential fatty acids. The other really integral part of the cell membrane is phospholipids. So two different things. The main sources of phospholipids are eggs, meats, soy, clean soy, fish. Some fish have it in them. Salmon can be rich in it. Eggs are my predominant recommendation. Egg yolks, this kind of like, let's eat the egg white. I love when I still see on a menu an egg white omelet. What's the value in that? I mean, there's just barely any nutritional value. It's the yolks that you want to get. And my grandfather used to take The Budwig protocol. And he would do a raw cottage cheese, probably because of this dairy mix in egg yolks, usually about six egg yolks. Then he would put the flax seeds, the pumpkin seeds, whatever seeds he was taking at that time, on top of it. And that was his breakfast every day.
- [11:44]
A
That Amazing. So amazing. You know one other thing I read that was really high in phospholipids, which is eaten a lot more in Japan and countries in the Pacific Islands, but it's fish roe. So caviar. Incredibly high.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah, incredibly high. I think caviar is really powerful in that other than breast milk. It is the only naturally occurring source of specialized pro resolving mediators. So it's providing phospholipid form, DHA and epa. So your fish oil, but in the purest form, in a phospholipid form that's going to get through, that's what makes a liposome. So it's going to get through the bloodstream into your little cells to be really integrated into our cells. But it's also providing these very powerful anti inflammatory molecules called SPMs. And SPMs are fascinating because they regulate our immune response. And so it's getting in very deep to actually produce a healthy inflammation response in the body and act as like a natural anti inflammatory. And so caviar is one of my favorite recommendations. Anytime you eat sushi, make sure you get some salmon roe. I give it to my kids, we eat it in our house. It's so much better in my opinion than taking anything that's processed. In terms of official, I think it's just a absolute power food.
- [13:01]
A
Yeah. You know I, I wrote a study and they were comparing fish oil to a, another compound. I believe it was fish row. That's high in. Well, what's interesting is fish oil is high in EPA, DHA, but Fish Roe has EPA, DHA and something called ETA, a type of omega 3. And it was found to be more anti inflammatory than EPA or dha, which is pretty profound. And I think, you know, when you look at fish roe, it's such a delicacy, it's, it's fairly expensive. But part of the reason is, you know, people would consume in this Japanese culture and Asian culture because it was just the most powerful healing food they could eat, the most nutrient dense food. And oftentimes we see some of these foods, whether it be an organ meat or something like fish roe and essentially it's like a vitamin. I mean these are incredible, incredible superfoods. I want to, I want to go over something that I think I've heard you mention before, and that is maybe fish oil is not all it's cracked up to be.
- [13:58]
B
I think that we have separated ourselves right from that, that food sourcing and looking for an easier solution. And the highly processed fish oils, you know, from being in manufacturing, the processing that things can go through, I would say they now estimate like 90% of fish oil on the market's rancid and oxidized. They're using heat extraction, they're using heavy solvents, they're using a lot of chemicals. And essential fatty acids are really delicate, which is why they're best coming from a whole food source or a source that's organic and carefully treated. And so I think it's really about the treatment of them that's so critically important. And that's been my hot take on fish oil that I've really challenged people to say it's not this panacea that people think it is, what it's doing in our body, because fish oil is great and I think it's really important. But let's A, try to get it from the right sources and B, let's also match it with the right essential fatty acid balance. So we're not throwing the balance way off and making sure we're getting the other polyunsaturated fats that are really important.
- [14:57]
A
I think there's a lot of wisdom there. Here's the way that I would put it. One, you know, I will say Omega 3s still, statistically, when you look at all the studies, I mean, and there are a few large, just massive, massive scale studies on fish oil, almost probably there's more efficacy for fish oil than almost any other supplement in terms of it benefiting people. So I do think fish oil is beneficial. However, I don't think it's near as beneficial as eating a salmon fillet. And to your point, because of that, and I think for some people, they're getting a benefit from fish oil just because they're so grossly inflamed and there's such a level of deficiency of the omega 3 fatty acids that even though they're getting an omega 3 that's missing some of the CO factors and is processed in a way, they're still getting a benefit just because there's just such a gross imbalance in the American diet today. However, to your point, if you're eating wild sockeye salmon, you're getting it with these other phospholipids, you're getting it with astaxanthin you're getting it in this sort of matrix of amino acid or protein. And we know that food functions together as a whole, not isolated. Typically it needs to have these other co factors for the body to utilize it at its greatest source. So the best thing people could do is start eating more salmon, more mackerel, more sardines, more of these foods on a regular basis. And if you are going to do a fish oil supplement, do something that's less processed. I actually tend to like a, you know, a very high end cod liver oil or something like that, or buying fish roe powder or something like that. So I do think that there are some brands and some things that are better than others, but I definitely think that there are. To your point, we do this with a lot of things. I think that getting the food is always better than the supplement. We love supplements. You should get supplements, but the food is always better or getting it in a whole food form. Like I've talked about this a lot with vitamins and supplements. It's like there's so many synthetic vitamins out there. If you're going to take a multi, take one that has, that's taken from food and has other food in it. And I know this has been a big focus of your career as well, is helping people get supplements that are more in a food form, bioavailable.
- [17:09]
B
Right. What are the supplements? And I always focus much more as we discuss on cellular health. That's where we are building that resilience. And so you'll often hear me talking about how the world that we live in today is affecting ourselves. I think that we get away when we have the conversation about toxins and cellular health. The bigger picture and the more important thing is how do we make ourselves more resilient? And you can do that through specific foods, you can do that through specific supplementation these days. And you can make yourself stronger so that you produce hormones better, you age better, you live healthier and you feel really good. And I think that's critically important. It's a foundational aspect that we are not talking about enough. And so that's why I focus so much on it.
- [17:49]
A
Wow. One of the things I wrote about in your story is you got put on birth control really early on in life and that really had a negative impact on your health.
- [17:56]
B
You know, it astonished me. So I recently did my first mammogram and that's, you know, you have a whole other conversation about mammograms. I'm not sure it's for me, I Also have tried thermography, which I really liked. I tried this new scan where they're using water that I thought was fascinating, but it caused me to pause. So the nurse said to me, have you ever been on birth control? This is before the mammogram. And I said, yes, I was on birth control for a few years when I was 16 to regulate my periods. I love that they put you on it to regulate your periods, not what's the root cause of the dysregulation of your period? And I said, why? And she said, well, because it's a carcinogen. And I. I just stopped myself and I said, you know, I. I don't think I want to do this. I'm. I'm not going to. To do this procedure. And I walked out and I realized, you know, it's. It's a crazy world that we're living in that we're putting kids on birth control to regulate periods or help with acne. And it caused this slew of issues for me from depressive symptoms and anxieties, different health issues. I ultimately went off of it quite quickly. But how many women do you know that go through the cycle of trying the depo Provera shot, the injection of something, the iud, that is disrupting pathways, when really we could be looking at natural cycles, seed cycling, getting to the root cause of why these children's hormones are disrupted in the first place, looking at their cellular health, like seeing how their diet is. And so these kids, I think, you know, I feel quite passionate. I have a daughter who's 6 years old, and it's. It's a scary world. And I think it caused me ultimately to downstream have polycystic ovarian syndrome. I think it caused a lot of issues within insulin resistance and metabolic dysfunction. These are things that I fixed through food and supplementation and just changing my habits. But I was Fairly lucky at 30 years old to be told, okay, you have PCOS, you have insulin resistance, you're going to have diabetes in about five years. I walked out of the office, I called my grandfather, and I said, okay, I gotta change some things. Like, my 20s are done. I now need to fix some things. Within three months, I was pregnant with my first baby.
- [20:04]
A
Wow.
- [20:04]
B
So I think that sometimes we wear these labels and we think that this is what we have. And I just always want to encourage women go deeper. Go deeper than that diagnosis and see what's causing it in the first place.
- [20:14]
A
That's so good.
- [20:15]
B
Yeah.
- [20:15]
A
Yeah. I've spent a lot of time researching birth Control. I'm probably one of the most outspoken people against the damaging effects. You know, one thing they don't put on the labels here is the nutritional deficiencies.
- [20:25]
B
B vitamins. Right.
- [20:26]
A
Dr. There you go, big time. I mean, almost every B vitamin, your body's deficient in selenium, zinc. And if you think about the B vitamins and the selenium, that is a major driver for hypothyroidism. So there's so many women taking birth control in their teens and early twenties, then they end up with hypothyroidism and pcos, two of the single biggest. I mean, when I was coming out of school, they didn't tell me, oh, every woman you see is going to have hypothyroidism and pcos. But I mean, the amount of women, the numbers are just staggering. And this is leading to more and more infertility issues today. And as you point, insulin resistance, pre diabetes, weight gain, all those issues, and even hypothyroidism.
- [21:09]
B
And that's something I've now struggled with. And I have a hereditary disposition towards it. You know, I think we all have this kind of Achilles heel, and that's our weakness, that's our health weakness. And oftentimes things get triggered at the cellular level when this bad stuff and the bad diets and the processed foods and all these things are breaking down our cell membrane. The bad stuff's getting into our cells, it's altering our epigenetics, it's changing our bodies to maybe be impacted by that Achilles heel earlier than others. And so in my 30s, I also struggled with, with hypothyroidism and looking at TPO antibodies and why are they increasing and inflammation levels and all these things. And it's been a fascinating learning experience.
- [21:50]
A
Yeah, the MTHFR sort of variant. I think that part of what pushed people epigenetically into experiencing those issues has to do with birth control. I think it's really kind of like, I mean, literally just forcing women into that issue. And then again, all the conditions we talked about are part of that. And, and I do think methylated B vitamins are great. I think that women can really benefit from those. But to your point as well, I think that there are so many other things they need to do. One of the biggest areas I think women are and men are deficient in due to today's environment is good probiotics. I mean, good bacteria in the gut. There was a Stanford study that said that if you supplement with probiotics, your absorption of B vitamins Doubles of what they actually find in your bloodstream. So I think that's another issue is the absorption issues. I think there's absorption of the gut microbiome. I think there's an absorption issue of what you talked about in terms things get in your blood but they're not getting actually into the cell. And that's something I know the cell membrane is so important for sort of helping bring things in the cell. And for everybody who's listening here, you know, the cell membrane, you want it to be elastic, you want it to be. And what happens is a lot fluid and a lot of times it's becoming hardened. What are some of the biggest things today that are hardened? Hardening our cell membranes that are sort of keeping those toxins in and not allowing oxygen and nutrients to get in. Do you have unexplainable illness, hormone dysfunction, weight loss resistance, brain fog, and you're tired of being dismissed when you know something isn't right? Well, get my at home testing of targeted biomarkers including hormones, thyroid and metabolism, plus a full hour with one of my senior health advisors to help you understand your results. The truth is your doctor's probably reading your blood work all wrong. They're missing the cellular issues behind the symptoms. New testing flips the script. The future of interpreting test results is here. I'm currently offering a simple at home blood test that actually tests for the right things. And just as importantly, it comes with proper interpretation of your results. If you want to check it out and grab one before they're gone, just go to mybloodwork.com now.
- [24:06]
B
Oxidized polyunsaturated fats. So rancid seed oils, so definitely avoid those. The form that you would find in a Kentucky Fried Chicken fryer on your shelf. The canola oil. Don't use that in your home. Cook with good quality seed oils. Try to avoid it as much as possible. So I think eating the right essential fatty acids, balancing it with avoiding toxic seed oils and processed oils, glyphosates, herbicides, pesticides that are disrupting our cell membrane, they're disrupting our, our gut microbiome as well. They're disrupting the beneficial bacteria that should be in our gut that we are no longer experiencing. In a similar way to antibiotics, many drugs can actually damage the cell membrane and induce mitochondrial dysfunction and then toxins, heavy metals, chemical exposures, the hundreds of thousands of chemicals that have been exposed that we learn 50 years later that it's doing X, Y and Z and it's removed from the market. So many of these chemicals have just been introduced and they are wreaking havoc on our cell membrane and our cells.
- [25:05]
A
Yeah. And what this is causing for a lot of people is again, when your cell membrane, it's the gatekeeper, it's letting things in, it's letting things out. If that's damaged again, your cells become toxic and also deficient because you're not getting those nutrients, those vital nutrients you need in. And again, I think for everyone listening, there are. It's not always we've heard the principle, you are what you eat. In reality, you are what you absorb. Right. Are you absorbing what is going into your body? We see this with hormones, hormone panels. It's like, okay, there are a lot of women who get blood work done and their doctor comes back and said, hey, your blood work's fine, you're within range. But women still don't feel right. And I think part of it even has to do with modern day blood work of not actually being able to look at maybe what's inside the cell versus what's outside the cell. What's happening there in terms of overall health. One blood work panel I love to do is I do want to also sometimes test for mitochondrial health.
- [26:04]
B
Which one do you do?
- [26:05]
A
It is called Tru Health. It's more of a. It's a lot of different markers. A lot of different markers. So I mean, part of the way we look at mitochondrial health is a number of things. There's like a pyruvate test, there's homocysteine, there's a number of things that we're kind of looking at, what constitutes that and then nad, that's another important one. This is one I've heard you talk about quite frequently is the benefits of nad.
- [26:31]
B
I have a pretty hot take on NAD because I think if you start it without actually taking care of cellular resilience and cell membrane health, it's useless. So I think you're kind of putting a steamroller into the mitochondria and you're making the mitochondria do something that it's not almost ready to do because the mitochondrial membrane's disrupted, the cell membrane's disrupted, it's a very large mole. So having it even taken up into the cell requires a healthy cell membrane. And so I think it's really critical to make sure you. And it's hard to test. You can't test for healthy cell membranes. It's difficult and it's expensive and it's labor intensive. You need very specific labs that are looking at cell membrane markers. It's getting better. I'm hoping to improve that over time. But one thing that's really important is just to make sure that you have the right cellular resilience before doing NAD, particularly the IVs.
- [27:21]
A
People are getting nauseous, very nauseous, and not feeling well when they get these NAD IVs. And I think part of it is, and here's how I put it, by the way, I experienced this myself. I started taking a. I took NMN early on and didn't really know. I noticed an improvement, by the way. I mean, that was probably one area. And this I think I took. I had a spinal infection, didn't walk for a year. This was a couple years ago. And I had to get on IV antibiotics for about four weeks. And as I started learning, probably the biggest area of damage with an IV is you think antibiotic? Oh, that's going to damage the gut. But if it's in an iv, the biggest thing it damages is your mitochondria. And so I started doing everything I could to support mitochondrial health. And NMN was something which is part of the NAD family that I noticed an improvement with. And then I got turned onto and started taking something called nr. And the NR I noticed an improvement with. But I started feeling nauseous when taking it. And part of it was I was taking it twice a day. I was taking an ultra, like a very high dose. And the way that I would describe what I felt was I felt wired, but tired. And I would describe it as like, if I took my phone here and if I put like a computer charger in it rather than a phone charger, it was like. It was almost like I was getting so much energy that was overriding my circuits. And then all I did was I cut my dose way down, 150 milligrams. And then I'm like, oh, now I feel really good. But a 450 or 500, I felt terrible. But when I lowered the dose, all of a sudden I was like, wow, now I feel great.
- [28:54]
B
And I would argue it was too much for your system. Your mitochondrial membranes were damaged, which happens through those IVs, your cell membranes damaged, and you're flooding that cell in those mitochondria with all of this and nr, nmn, NAD that it's converted to, and they can't keep up with it.
- [29:11]
A
That's right.
- [29:11]
B
And so you felt that, like, frantic. Some people might feel anxiety. When I've done an nadiv, the long one that takes the five hours to do, I felt it like cardiovascular?
- [29:22]
A
Oh, yeah, a lot of people.
- [29:23]
B
And that affected me. I was actually doing it for biofilm reduction in the gut. So there's some research about using NAD IVs and reducing biofilms. And so that's why I was actually doing it.
- [29:33]
A
And I think sometimes it's great as part of a detox protocol, you might feel uncomfortable for a short time. And I've experienced the same thing. I've not felt this myself, but I do know when these methylated B vitamins, people started taking those, if people are taking too high a dose or somebody has a lot of mitochondrial damage, they'll feel the same thing. They'll feel that wired but tired. Maybe a very, very low grade nauseousness there as well. But that's a very similar thing. Your cells cannot handle your mitochondria, the amount of energy you're trying to pump into them at one time.
- [30:05]
B
Yeah, it's true.
- [30:06]
A
And this is why I'm a big fan of organ meats and glandulars, getting liver and a lot of these things in the diet. One, if somebody would have gone into a medicine cabinet a thousand years ago, they would have found things like herbs and mushrooms and glandulars. I mean, they've been used since the beginning of history. And you're not getting necessarily megadoses, but you are getting not only the B vitamins, but all the cofactors and choline and some of them have small amounts of those phospholipids that are great for the body. So I'm a big fan of those as well. What are some of your. If you had to give me your top five or seven or any number you want to pick of longevity foods or mitochondrial foods. What are some of your favorites?
- [30:52]
B
Eggs, steak, you know, organ meats, meats. Raw dairy is probably a contentious one, but it works for me, it works for my family.
- [31:03]
A
Yeah.
- [31:04]
B
Salmon roe. Not necessarily salmon roe. Any fish roe. Clean fish roe, I think is a superfood. And I'd probably say those nuts. Those were all nuts.
- [31:15]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:16]
B
And I think you have to make sure you're able to digest them. For the people who eat an egg and they can't digest, work on your gallbladder, get to the root cause of why that's happening in the first place. How's your liver detoxification? How are your bile flow pathways? And so I think that's a really important part that needs to be a part, because I'm talking high fat, high fat, high protein products. Those are the longevity foods that I Focus on. But for a long time after my third baby, I actually couldn't digest those fats very well.
- [31:42]
A
Yeah. This is such an important discussion and this is something that I frequently talk about is just the importance of personalized nutrition. Nutrition. Because everybody is different and sometimes at different life stages, you might digest something well versus not. I think a lot of it has to do with the emotions you're experiencing. Different emotions tax different organ systems. So if you are worrying a lot and then that's going to stress the stomach, well then foods that your stomach is primarily having to digest, that's going to stress that. Or if you're living with frustration, impatience, anger, that's going to affect the gallbladder. So you're going to need some help there. And then there's, of course there's genetic components, there's other things that sort of all tie into this idea of personalized nutrition. One of the things that I love, that I've seen you recommend very frequently for people who aren't absorbing fat soluble vitamins. Well, to your point, in different types of fatty acids is tudka. Yeah. So talk to us about what Tudka. This is something, by the way, I'm excited. I see it growing in popularity. I love it. This was used in Chinese medicine thousands of years ago, but it was actually a very rare supplement because of where it comes from. But talk to us about tudka.
- [32:53]
B
Yeah. Hundreds of years ago in Chinese medicine, it actually came from bear or bull bile. And so it's a true glandular. It's extracting something from that animal and using it for medicinal purposes. And so it would have been used rampantly that way. Now we make it synthetically, which oftentimes we say we don't want synthetic things. In this case we do. And it is very effective and powerful when it's synthetically made because we don't want to hurt animals in the process of extracting this super powerful. It works to improve bile flow. It's a bile acid that is so critically important. And I think in today's world and we think about like detoxification, we think detoxification, we think binders, we think detox protocols, fasting, you know, removing these things from the body. And bile acids are also removed when you use things like binders and different detoxification protocols. Bile acids are really critically important to make sure your liver is processing fats correctly. And so we like to add more in. And I talk about this a lot in different protocols for detoxification because it really helps the liver to Process better. And it helps with gallbladder health, which is where your bile is stored and flowing through. And so, you know, particularly for people who have had their gallbladder removed or had gallbladder issues, it's critically important. I like to also mix it with ox bile. Ox bile is a product that many different companies make, and I think they have different uses. They're different forms of bile acids that are needed. And so for people who don't have a gallbladder, they oftentimes also need ox bile.
- [34:21]
A
Now, what would you say in terms of when would you recommend tudka versus when you would recommend ox bile?
- [34:25]
B
Yeah, so TUDCA has a lot of, like, neuro. Neurodegenerative benefits. It works on the cellular level by being what's called a chemical chaperone. So it'll actually help to go and break down toxins and remove them from the body. And so I like to use TADCA as part of detoxification protocols, or many physicians are using it as part of neuro issues. So if they are dealing with a neurodegenerative disease, they might be using tudca. It was actually being researched as a drug, particularly for als. I think they abandoned the actual drug trial and like, phase three or four that they got to. I don't know if I agreed with the way that they put it together, but I think it can be very beneficial when used for neurodegenerative benefits. And then ox bile is more of your everyday, if you have gallbladder issues, more of the one that you're going to use particularly. I like ones that are mixed with digestive enzyme, pancreatic enzymes like pancreatin, that are going to help break down those fats and fat absorption.
- [35:22]
A
That's great. You know, I have recommended tudka and ox bile for pretty much every patient with their gallbladder being removed or gallbladder issues. Every single person on a ketogenic diet should be doing occipylene, tudca, 100%. And then anybody just dealing with, when I do blood work, if we see low, poor fat absorption, like low vitamin D levels, because I just had a patient like this last week, their vitamin D when they came in was like 10, and it was creeping up, but it still wasn't as high even after getting. Taking a vitamin D supplement, spending time in the sun, because their absorption was so poor. And so Tudica, Knox bile, that's gonna help with the breakdown, the absorption and support vitamin D. So again, I think a lot of times to that point, this is something I know that you've really been outspoken about is that it's not just about taking a supplement or eating a food. It's about how well you're absorbing it in through your gut microbiome and, and then in through your cells. It's just critically important. So I love that you've been outspoken about them. By the way, tudka, one other unique thing about it is the T at the beginning of a part of that is taurine. And this is an amazing amino that people can really benefit from energy production. It's naturally found in the heart, so it has that heart and nervous system benefits. So anyways, I'm a big, big, big fan of tudca. It's one I take it a lot anytime I'm eating a meal that has higher fat.
- [36:44]
B
Me too.
- [36:45]
A
I'm taking a Ted Carox bile supplement. You've done a great job with so many other products you've helped get on the market. One of my other favorites, and I heard you once call this a natural ozempic, and it's butyrate or butyric acid. Walk us through, what is butyrate and how does that work on the body?
- [37:04]
B
Butyrate is fascinating. It's the molecule your gut was designed to make. The problem in today's world is that our guts are completely disrupted.
- [37:11]
A
Yeah.
- [37:12]
B
Butyrate is a postbiotic. It's the byproduct, it's the end product when you're feeding the gut the right prebiotics and your gut has the right probiotics and keystone strains of those probiotics. And so oftentimes, after antibiotic use, after glyphosate exposures, which even if you do everything you can to eat organic, you are still going to have herbicide and pesticide exposures.
- [37:33]
A
Well, I read a recent study that said 99% of us have it in our blood or urine. I mean, it's very high a lot of these, these chemicals.
- [37:40]
B
And think about our children being born with that exposure because the parents have it, the mother has that exposure. The children are now being born with higher exposures. And we're seeing it even in cord blood. I mean, they're seeing it in the stem cells as well. So we have this kind of disruption happening to our microbiome, and we are seeing less butyrate production than ever before. And butyrate is an awesome molecule for regulating immune function, metabolism, blood sugar regulation, increasing GLP1 production naturally in the gut instead of just throwing it exogenously into the gut. And I think that in general, it seems to help people with surface level. It's helping with bloating and regularity and blood sugar regulation. If you're wearing a cgm, you'll see that. But in general, many people need this short chain fatty acid because we're actually not producing enough in our guts anymore.
- [38:29]
A
Yeah, yeah. I know in Ayurvedic medicine, they had this many. Many of you have heard of it, clarified butter, ghee, and that today that's probably the highest source you're going to find of naturally occurring butyric acid. But it's great to take as a supplement, I think, for those that are deficient in it. And I think if you're a person who is dealing with chronic constipation, GI issues, it's something to look for. And there's some good blood work. I know that we've done different types of gut panels looking for it, and many people are deficient. Probably over half have some level of. Of butyric acid deficiency.
- [39:01]
B
Yeah. And it's what I'm seeing now are incredible studies on the role of the butyrate as a molecule plays in cardiovascular health, in mental illness, in mental health. That gut brain axis is so critically important, and it's really an amazing molecule that helps to decrease the inflammation response and regulate the inflammation response in the gut, which is so critically important with so many GI disorders we're seeing today.
- [39:25]
A
Yeah. If you're constantly tired, gaining weight for no reason, or feeling mentally foggy, these could be signs of a thyroid issue, like hypothyroidism or Hashimoto's. The good news is there are natural ways to support your thyroid through the right foods, herbs, nutrients, and daily habits. And if you or someone you love is struggling with thyroid problems, I've created a free resource just for you. You can head on over to draxethyroidclass.com to discover practical steps you can take today to start healing your thyroid naturally. That's draxe thyroidclass.com your journey to better energy, focus and healing starts now. We talked a fair amount about pesticides and glyphosate, how damaging these are to the body. We have so many toxins that we are exposed to on a regular basis that we're finding in the bloodstream, in the gut microbiome. And so one of the steps that I've encouraged people with in healing is detoxification. I believe that people need to focus on detoxification, restoring cellular nutrients and cellular energy. I think those are three of the most critical things people can do and I know these are things that you've felt strongly about as well. Let's talk a little bit more about detoxification. We talked about the importance of things like bile. That's an important detoxifier. There's a lot of herbs that can support different liver pathways. We talked about B vitamins. We can touch on some of these more in a minute too. But I want to talk about binders for a minute. What are your beliefs about binders? Are there any you really like? Any you are kind of on the borderline of any. You're like, do not take that or it's overused. I'd love to hear kind of your thoughts on binders.
- [41:07]
B
When it comes to detoxification, I prefer naturally occurring binders. Those like chlorella apple pectin, modified citrus pectin. I like those when used sparingly. I think that we have seen, with the rise of social media, a lot of practitioners that do not approach detoxification in the way that you are supporting the cell, Supporting the cell, nutrients, supporting cellular energy. What we're seeing is this mass removal. Bind and remove fast the body and detox. This just causes more circulating toxins.
- [41:40]
A
Yes.
- [41:41]
B
And even if you're sweating and you're having regular bowel movements and you're trying to get these things out of the body, they're not often able to. And so we often see when people start these binders, they don't feel well. And particularly for those who are really chronically ill, they feel 10 times worse.
- [41:56]
A
Yeah.
- [41:57]
B
And I think the problem with most binders on the market is that they are going in and binding to the very things that your cells need to heal and restore and provide cellular resilience. These bile acids, the phospholipids. One binder that's used tremendously in mold toxicity. Cholestyramine, directly binds to your membrane phospholipids and removes them from the body. We're breaking down the protective measures that our cells need in order to heal and detoxify properly.
- [42:26]
A
Let me tell you my biggest problem with the binder that I have the biggest problem with.
- [42:30]
B
Yeah.
- [42:31]
A
And it's overuse. It's definitely activated charcoal.
- [42:33]
B
Yeah.
- [42:34]
A
By far. Now, here's the thing. I have people, patients, if they're going through having their silver fillings removed.
- [42:42]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [42:42]
A
I have them do activated charcoal. If they have a major, major mold issue and we need to do a short term detoxification protocol, I have them do activated charcoal. But there are so many people today. Or of course, there's things like food poisoning, alcohol poisoning.
- [42:57]
B
Dr.
- [42:57]
A
I mean take activated charcoal, but to your point, they bind to every mineral. They bind to phospholipids as well, they cause constipation. So they really sort of halt your detoxification in a way, especially if you overdo it. So listen, do not take activated charcoal unless you're doing a short term detoxification that is for something really serious. There are so many binders that are way better, more natural. And to your point, two of my favorite binders, chlorella and I love pectin. Yeah, love pectin and there's studies on especially citrus pectin for anti cancer, apple pectin for health of bowel movements and for the gut microbiome. So those probably are my two favorites that I just absolutely love. Now I know you have said you're not as big a fan of humic, fulvic and maybe shilajit as others and I'd love to hear why and understand why. It's one that I like in certain instances when mixed with high dose probiotics, but would love to hear kind of from your take on maybe why you like or don't like that and any other binders too. I don't know what your thoughts are on zeolites or others on maybe the benefits there.
- [44:06]
B
I think a lot of these things like zeolites because you'll get into a war with people over using zeolite with children. And I encourage them to look into those companies that have created those zeolites and kind of the structure of those companies and the multi level marketing that is being done to convince people that these things are needed for our children. When you use that zeolite, those toxins are still just circulating in the body. They're not actually being removed from our children. And so I feel very passionately about giving kids healthy nutrients and healthy fats to grab onto those fat soluble toxins and remove them through bowel movements or through sweat, through movement, through fascia movement. And so I really like to approach it from there. Humic and fulvic I have a mixed feeling towards mainly because I think if you're looking at a really pure high quality shilajit, you're getting good minerals and vitamins with that. The processing of the humic and fulvic plants, I think there's pretty much like three main locations where they're being processed. This is heavy, chemically treated, heavy processing that's going on in order to make these supplements that you, you now see everywhere in so many different supplements. And I just think it's the same thing as the fish oil conversation. Right. It's in a few years we're going to look back and see how like maybe this isn't providing the nutrients to the body that it's claiming to. And I just don't think the research is there for it.
- [45:22]
A
Yeah, yeah. One of my experiences has been we actually found a really good source of humic and fulvic and shilajit that are like from the earth. And so and I, I wrote a book years ago, it's called Eat Dirt. And part of the idea there was we're finding certain things in the soil that we need, specifically types of microbes. And I think predominantly the greatest benefit is when it's done locally. You're going to your local farmer's market, you're getting those little brown specks on the carrots, right. And you're being exposed. Of course, honey, that's a whole nother conversation. The amazing benefits there. But I do think there are some benefits as I do think there's some benefits there when done with. Well, it's like any supplement. I mean, my belief about supplements is the majority of them are mediocre at best and not helping, you know, and some of them are even harmful. I mean, there's studies on calcium carbonate like isolated calcium and it greatly increasing the risk of heart attack and stroke. Because think about this. If you take an isolated calcium supplement and calcium isn't absorbed well, calcium has to have magnesium and phosphorus and boron and vitamin D and all these things for proper absorption. And so if it's not absorbed, it stays in your bloodstream and actually causes calcification, the hardening of your arteries, hardening of your cell membranes, and it's very harmful. And so this is why my entire career, one of my best friends, Jordan Rubins, felt so strongly about this as well. If you're taking supplements, make them food based supplements and do everything you can to get things that are actual food. When I think about the supplements I take, they're mostly foods. Like this morning when I woke up, I took a multiglanular. I took liver, heart, kidney, adrenal, I took turmeric, I took phosphatidylcholine, which was in this phospholipid supplement. I did a protein powder that was made just from bone broth that you'd make at home that's dehydrated. I took a super food powder that was beet juice powder and chlorella and spirulina. My point Is that like when you and I are taking supplements today, most of them are actually food? Yeah, right, they're actually food. But for a lot of people, when you're going and taking these synthetic supplements in high doses, they're probably not good for your kidneys. There could be some side effects there. And this is why sometimes you'll see studies that show if you take a multivitamin, it makes no difference on your mortality, no difference on your health, because these things are not being absorbed. And so that's one of the things I love and why I wanted to have you on the show is I think that absorption piece, especially when it comes to cell membrane. And I've talked a lot about the absorption via the gut, but we haven't had a lot of conversations on the show about the absorption in the cell and how important that is.
- [48:04]
B
Yeah, it's pretty esoteric. We don't think about our cells very often. But the point of a lot of these minerals and foods are they need to get to the cells, they need to get to the mitochondria for mitochondrial energy production and ATP production. That's what drives our energy stores. And so making sure we are providing ourselves with the bioavailable nutrients to really propel cellular health forward, to make your cells more resilient, to make them healthier, it's going to benefit everything and it's going to provide a better foundation for aging, for dealing with chronic disease, for living healthy, for producing healthy babies, for fertility outcomes, all of these things.
- [48:43]
A
One of the last things I want to ask you about are minerals. This is another thing I know that you've talked about and created products around is multi minerals. I think vitamins generally historically were much more popular. I think with the rise of magnesium and its popularity in zinc, people are more aware of, oh, I need these minerals as well. I'm a big fan of people like Weston A. Price and Royal Lee. You know, these dentists that went to different communities, tribes and looked at, hey, what's going on with this group of people that has zero tooth decay, that had areas of their health that were better than we have in America today. And one of the things that Wesjayn A. Price looked at was he believed that for most people there was a great deficiency in fat soluble vitamins specifically and minerals. Why are we so mineral deficient today? And what are some things people can do in order to regain and sort of repopulate the amount of minerals that they have in their body?
- [49:44]
B
I see a biological dentist, I make my kids see a biological Dentist. And I think like so many parents today, you do all the things for your kids and you're trying to be as healthy as possible without being too, you know, myopic about it and creating healthy eating patterns and healthy understanding of our food sources. My daughter had a cavity, my six year old daughter. So I take her to the dentist And I said, Dr. Silver, why, why is this happening? I'm doing everything right. I'm using the right toothpaste, I'm, I'm making sure she has minerals in her food, I'm making sure she has a balanced diet, I'm making sure she has the right fats, all of these things. He said, it's not about you, it's about how she was built in utero. It's about your mineral stores. We are deficient in minerals. These kids today are deficient in minerals. He said, My practice 20, 30 years ago was all adults. It's now 80% children.
- [50:32]
A
Wow.
- [50:33]
B
Because we have all these panicked parents and holistically minded parents, crunchy parents who were wanting to take their kids to the equivalent of a functional medicine doctor when it comes to a dentist. And the dentists are now seeing more children than ever because our kids are just mineral defense. I really love liquid minerals. I love sea sourced minerals. I really think that they're more bioavailable in the body than powdered. It's easier to get into our kids as well. I'll often just put drops in their water, make sure they're getting the right electrolytes as well that aren't covered in flavorings and sweeteners and all of these things so that they just get used to absorbing them and eating them. So one of my favorite ways to start the day in my household is a raw milk smoothie. I use a bone broth, chocolate protein and I make sure that it doesn't have a ton of different sweeteners in it. When I choose my protein powders, I'll do some essential fatty acids, some balance oil, I put some phospholipids in and I put a big squirt of liquid minerals in, macro micro minerals and that blend that's found in seawater that should be in our soil. But because of all the practices that you and I know are happening within agriculture and, and the lack of regenerative farming, we're seeing less nutrient deficient food than, you know, 50, 100 years ago.
- [51:46]
A
Oh yeah. It's amazing when you look at how much less nutrients certain foods have than they did a hundred years ago. It's really Shocking. And this is why I think supplements are important for a lot of people because they're just such a great deficiency. Food should always be first, though. I mean, I think that's one of the, one of the things I do want to say for anybody as we talk about, we've referenced some supplements. Here is supplements are for supplementing the holes in your diet, okay. In sort of our modern day living. So do everything you can. Listen, you can take a cod liver oil and a fish oil, but first and foremost, eat more salmon, eat more wild caught fatty fish, get walnuts, get flaxseeds, get more of those, get more healthy fatty acids in your diet. And then you can supplement too, if you still feel like there's a deficiency there. But really focus on food first and then cover your bases with your supplements as well. That's going to lead you to the highest level of health. And just want to say thanks so much for coming on today and sharing your wisdom.
- [52:45]
B
Thank you.
- [52:46]
A
I love this conversation because I think there are so many people who are maybe not aware of the phospholipid conversation around the butyric acid conversation, the bile, the importance of that for detoxification. And there's so much wisdom in what you shared. So thanks so much for coming on today.
- [53:02]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
- [53:03]
A
Well, everybody, hey, thanks so much for tuning in here to the Dr. Josh Axe Show. Remember, each and every week we're diving deep into the science of principles of how you can heal physically, mentally and spiritually. Also, don't forget to subscribe. Also, do not forget, oftentimes on this show it's been shadow banned on platforms like YouTube because we're talking about a lot of very controversial things that pharmaceutical companies don't like. And you may or may not know this. Google owns YouTube, which also owns three pharmaceutical companies. And so they don't always love us talking about natural health. And so if you're not subscribed, oftentimes this show will not pop up in your feed. If you subscribe, it will. So don't forget to subscribe. By the way. It's the number one thing you can do to support the show and allow me to continue to bring on incredibly amazing, high profile guests like we had today. So thanks so much and thanks for sharing and being on mission with me to help people heal using food and lifestyle medicine. I'll see you on the next episode. Limu Gameo and Doug Limu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music.
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B
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A
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