← The Dr. Josh Axe Show
The Dr. Josh Axe Show
Doctor: Your Personality Might Be Causing Your Biggest Health Problem
01:14:26
Your personality may be shaping your health more than you realize. In this episode, Dr. Josh Axe sits down with Dr. Chris Motley to unpack how Enneagram types influence everything from stress patterns to the foods, supplements, and detox strategies your body responds to best. Discover a more personalized path to healing by understanding how you’re wired: in your mind, body, and spirit.
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A
What if your personality type dictated your health? There are certain foods, vitamins, supplements, lifestyle practices that you want to follow based on your personality type.
- [01:41]
B
I wasn't just cleaning out the toxins, I was helping them also with alleviating some of their emotional stress. Cleaning out the organs started to help their emotions. Oh, I'm so worried about my family and I notice oh they have a lot of stomach issues. Stomach and worry. I always pay attention to their history and then I ask them specific questions and and try to find out more about what their personality is because that will tell me which organ's congested. And then I work on that to help alleviate the emotions and stress. I started to see that those patients personalities and their attitude started to lighten up. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half.
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- [03:14]
A
What if your personality type dictated your health? That's right. Think about this. Have you ever taken an Enneagram test or Myers Briggs or the big five or any personality profile and you read the results and you thought, hey, this is me. This describes me to a T. I know that I've done that. I know today's guest has done that. And today we're going to dive into how your Enneagram, your Myers Briggs, your big five, your personality type has a massive impact on your health and what you can do about it. In fact, if you're a 2 wing 3 in Enneagram or a 7 wing 8, or you tend to be a black and white personality type 1 or A people pleaser, or you're a person that tends to run towards conflict or thrive in it. There are certain foods, vitamins, supplements, lifestyle practices that you want to follow based on your personality type. And today I've brought in a special guest, one of my closest friends, Dr. Chris Motley. And today we're going to talk about how to heal your body and thrive in your health based on your personality type. Dr. Chris, welcome to the show.
- [04:15]
B
Thank you, brother. Appreciate it so much. It's such a pleasure. Thank you, man. I really enjoy our conversations.
- [04:20]
A
Well, I know we had a dinner conversation about this like five years ago and I remember everyone at the table was so kind of, you know, drawn in by it because it was so fascinating. You and I kind of discussing and talking about how our personalities can really have a big impact on the way our organs function and our needs for certain vitamins and minerals. And so I want to talk about that today. The other thing I want to get into is how when we do a detox, you want to consider multiple organs. And there's a very specific process people want to follow, whether it's detoxing from parasites or mold or just general environmental detox like supporting the liver. I want to go through that today. And also there's certain times of year you want to be doing a detox the right way. So I want to do that. But I want to start off with this, personality types and how that impacts your health. How did you discover this originally when you started working with patients that you really noticed that, wow, this person's, you know, the way that they deal with conflict or their personality type and their emotions and have a really big impact on their health.
- [05:21]
B
I, I remember when I first started, and we talked about how individuals that would have a lot of liver congestion when they would detox. I noticed that in chiropractic, the middle mid spine, lower T spine, they say it always has to do with the liver. I started noticing that when I would work on those areas and individuals would start to get that area healed up, at times they would be a little more agitated, they would feel a little bit more quick to answer something a little harshly. And so as I started to study that more, we know that in Chinese medicine they'll say that the liver and the gallbladder has to do with some anger or frustration, resentment. And if you look at the physiology, the biology books, they would say that our liver is highly responsible for how much we detoxify histamine. And so I always see that melding of the east and west where it says, okay, if your liver is congested, there could be a lot of histamine, a lot of inflammatory agents in there. And starting to work on the liver, starting to clean out, even if there's infections in there. I started to see that those patients personalities and their attitude started to lighten up. And especially children, children with liver congestion. And the parents would come in and say, hey, they're not as angry or frustrated. They don't have as much anxiety as before. And then I started to really look at different levels of the spine and different organ toxicities. For instance, if a person had a little bit more fearful, they're a little more antsy to think that something bad's gonna happen. I noticed they all had kidney issues or u or bladder infections across the board. So when I started to see if an organ was toxic congested, I started to notice that if I really paid attention to attitude, emotions and personality, I wasn't just cleaning out the toxins, I was helping them also with alleviating some of their emotional stress. Cleaning out the organs started to help their emotions. And I really paid attention. If a patient came in, brother, they would come and they would say something like, oh, I'm so worried about, you know, my family. And I noticed, oh, they have a lot of stomach issues. Stomach and worry.
- [07:24]
A
Yeah.
- [07:25]
B
And so I think in my not think in my practice, what I do is with the organs. I always pay attention to their history and then I ask them specific questions and try to find out more about what their personality is because that will tell me which organ's congested. And then I work on that to help alleviate the emotions and stress.
- [07:41]
A
Yeah, it makes sense. So what I want to do now is go through some of these different Enneagram types. Let's start with Enneagram and we can talk, we can connect this back to other personality profiles that you may connect with and see if you fit this and then we'll give our best recommendations there. So let's start off with Enneagram number one, what is that personality type and what are some things to know there and what organs are affected?
- [08:02]
B
Number one's more like the perfectionist or the person who wants the reformation. In their life. They are always going to strive to be the best at what they do. They're always going to try to find the perfect fit and they're going to work their hardest at it. In the Enneagram, though, I always kind of equivocate it over to. We call like the body section of Chinese element. So number one. And sometimes it's mixed with nines, sometimes eight. And whenever I find a person has a number one, I usually try to find out if they have a lot of wood quality. So ones, eights and nines are really perfectionist in a good way. They really.
- [08:36]
A
Yeah. So let's. So I want to just clarify this real quick. So number one, these are the people. Things are black and white.
- [08:41]
B
Yeah.
- [08:42]
A
Okay. Things are black and white. They tend to be obsessive compulsive, or they can be. If they get out of balance. Again, they're the perfectionist person. They're that sort of person that wants regimen. They want structure. They want. And that's a really great quality. It is. And so in Chinese medicine, that would tend to be a metal element. Okay. And that's sort of like, again, it's this side or this side something. They can get cold about things and they. They in. In. But. But sometimes it can move into that sort of wood element, which is more leadership and growth and that type of thing. And a little bit different as well. Connected to the liver versus connected the immune system.
- [09:16]
B
Yes.
- [09:16]
A
But I just wanted to clarify there. So continue on. So ones, these are the perfection. Ocd. Let's get it done.
- [09:23]
B
And the. Let's get it done. I love it because the mixture of. If I want to get something done to grow, my liver is the organ to help grow. It helps create your ligaments, your tendons, your hormones, your enzymes. So you are a person who wants growth and you also want structure to make it go. So you have to try to find the nutrients or the supplements that would actually help clarify the lungs, the colonial and the liver. So I always recommend detoxification with things like Schisandra. Sometimes I'll do a little bit of milk thistle. And also I always find something that will help them clean the colon out. Because if you're metal element and I don't like to use, well anal retentive, it can be very, very perfection. It's black and white and some people can be really, really tight. So I always say clean the colon out. Use cayenne, use different, like slippery elm. Use something to get the bowels moving and also get the liver to detoxify. Yeah.
- [10:11]
A
Because when you look at people with this personality trait, this number one, they tend to often, again, they tend to be a little bit less emotional. So they're the person. They're a little bit more grounded, sound thinking. They're definitely less emotional. They tend to be than other types. Or at least they will keep it inside. They're not going to express it, so they keep it bottled up. And one important thing to note here is sometimes with number ones being more of that metal element, if there are things that have happened in the past, oftentimes they will bury it and not address it and just leave it there. And a lot of people do this, but it can be left buried in the past. And if that happens, something that's happened in the past that you've never addressed, that affects the lungs, that affects the colon, that starts to weigh down those organ systems. And your lungs and your colon, that's your immune system. So we see this a lot with people with autoimmune disease.
- [11:06]
B
Yes, yes. When you have, like, lupus irritable bowel syndrome, when you have those kind of conditions that are in the colon, if you find yourself holding on to something, not letting it out, they would say that you are holding on to toxic things in your life, such as it could be infections or any type of, like, excess hormones in the gut. If you're not letting it out, it also backs up and it changes your nervous system, your neurology, your brain. And so you think, I'm holding onto this toxic relationship, I'm holding onto this toxic workload. And so I always try to find out if the patient has that holding on. I got to control this. I have to be very rigid about this or I don't feel safe. So then try to get it to flow out of the colon and it usually changes the brain.
- [11:50]
A
It's so good. I'm glad you used that word because that is probably one of the main words, if not the main word that A1. If you're working out of balance, you will try and control Everything. So as a mom, you try and control, you're trying to control your kid, you're trying to control things that are out, out of your control. And then it becomes a major stressor because God didn't create you to control things that are supposed to be in his control, right?
- [12:12]
B
That's right.
- [12:12]
A
And so it is a major, major stressor. So to Dr. Chris's point, detoxifying the lungs. So going out and exercising and doing things like deep breathing, cleansing the colon, doing everything you can to keep the lungs and colon moving continually. And then the liver, to his point, is also very connected to this. And what happens is when you're a one, what you do is you create barriers. This is why they call it a metal element is they sort of like you, barriers and everything. So, okay, this part of my life's over here. This thing that's happened in the past, and this is over here. And you do it for protection, Self protection.
- [12:45]
B
That's right.
- [12:46]
A
But it's really important to Dr. Chris's point that we take care of the lungs. So it could be, again, exercise is very important for these types, especially cardiovascular, moving your lungs, doing things to support the colon and doing things to support the liver. And then let's move into type two.
- [13:05]
B
Type two.
- [13:06]
A
And by the way, number one, if you would take like a big five or Myers Briggs, these are like the judge, the judgmental types. Okay? So they are, again, think about like a, like, like. And some of these personality types, they'd be great attorneys or lawyers or accountants. It's. There's black and white. There's right and wrong in life. So that's number one. Number two, these are. I'll let you talk about it there. What number two is.
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B
I kind of think of them as the caretakers.
- [13:32]
A
Yes, 100% the caretakers.
- [13:33]
B
People who love to care for others in a sense, more than they like to care for themselves. They're always looking out for the best for everybody else. They actually, the people that will actually exhaust themselves because they're always going out and becoming a nurse, becoming a caregiver, somebody that sees the beauty and trying to create warmth and love. And so those individuals usually, when they care more for themselves, there's a couple of ways I like to look at it. Usually they have a lot of worry or they'll usually look into somebody saying, I hope they're doing okay and I'm going to do my best to help them. So I always say we have to make sure that their digestive systems really clean out their upper digestion also, when they're caretakers, they also have a lot of heart. They really warm. They want somebody to feel loved. So I always tell the patient, we're going to give you a couple maybe herbals and supplements, stimulate and clean out that upper digestion area, that stomach area, so you don't feel the knot in the stomach. So I always like ginseng. I love American ginseng to help warm it up. And for the heart, I like something like Dan Shen to help keep it warm and try to flow and get the cardiovascular system. When you notice that your stomach releases and relaxes, you'll start start to care for others. But I believe it's where you want to care for others, but also care for yourself. So when we're talking about doing something for others, make sure you give enough time for yourself as well.
- [14:48]
A
And this is really tied to that motherly energy. Right. In Chinese medicine, a lot of twos tend to be earth elements. And it's very tied to nourishment and care and love for others. And when I think about some of the people I'm closest to, I surround myself with a lot of people that kind of have those two instincts. And Chelsea is a three. Two. You're probably a nine, too. I mean, when I think about you and Isaac Meek, I feel I see a lot of nine. But I also see some two, like, I mean, just a lot of being amazing at just caring and loving and nourishing, nurturing others. But again, that two there. The thing that you gotta worry about with twos is they tend to be people pleasers. Yes, okay, that's good. And they also tend to pour so much of their lives out to others and then not fill themselves up enough.
- [15:35]
B
Yes, that's exact to me. I think that when you know that you are like that, me and Isaac will talk about that. And we have to keep a limit on ourselves. I always tell people that if you're two, you do have to get that metal quality sometimes. You got to give yourself some boundaries. You have to make sure that you don't overdo it. That's why I really appreciate friends that you have. You are so good at logistics, but knowing plans and such, you have a good metal quality about you. And you help me because as somebody that could have no boundaries, like, you need to set these boundaries. And it helps me and my personality too.
- [16:08]
A
Yeah, yeah. And this is why it's good to, you know, have friends that are in spouses and things like that that help complete you, that help support you and kind of Help you grow in areas or set boundaries or let the boundaries go for a time in order to grow. We were talking about our friend Isaac Meek. He is. Him and his wife Stephanie are the founders of Five Daughters Bakery, which, if you've ever been to the Nashville or Atlanta area, they make these paleo donuts that are made with things like honey and maybe cassava flour. It's really cleaner, healthier. They're paleo donuts and just amazing, amazing maple. But he has five daughters and his wife Steph. And so we were just on a trip together at men's retreat in Park City, Utah. And so we hear him on the phone, like, I mean, he's like in full time counselor mode. And he used to be a youth pastor too, before this. But you see him, I mean, he is like, he is, you know, a 2 and 9 to a T of boys. Like caring and nurturing and loving and being the peacemaker.
- [17:11]
B
Peacemaker.
- [17:11]
A
Oftentimes we see that with twos as well, right?
- [17:13]
B
Yes. He's doing that with us. Like, we're over there. He's like, trying to keep it, like, in a sense, like always. At one point he went and he got. Made us cookies. And it was just so kind, you know, just wanting to make sure everybody was together.
- [17:27]
A
And I think about this. So my mom growing up, she was a 2. 1. Okay, so she was a 2. And like my mom, to this day, the thing that fills her up the most is like, her family together. Like, if you think about the holidays and like, like, you know, for her, the most stressful thing is if, like, me and my siblings would not be getting along. Yeah. I mean, that like any disharmony in the home.
- [17:50]
B
Yeah.
- [17:51]
A
It just eats away at her so hard in her versus when the home is intact and there's harmony happening for twos. And then my mom, actually, one of the biggest reasons I believe she got cancer was she was so driven by being a two that if she had any criticism whatsoever, she took it so personally. And it was literally like an open wound. It was like an injury, like a physical injury. And. And so my. I had that mom growing up who was always trying to please everybody and do everything. She never said no. I mean, just giving and giving and giving until she had nothing left, Right?
- [18:24]
B
Yes.
- [18:24]
A
And we see that actually Chinese medicine will talk about that. Breast cancer.
- [18:27]
B
Yes.
- [18:27]
A
You know, that being one of the biggest causes of where a woman will just give everything and never, never fill herself back up.
- [18:34]
B
That's right. And the breast cancer and breast tissue, when we think about How a mother gives to their kid, their child through breast milk. That is initiated psychologically, emotionally, physically, and they're giving everything. And then if they are stuck in that mode all their life, it can put a lot of stress on those glands and those organs.
- [18:55]
A
Yeah, yeah. And so let's get like practical here. You mentioned a few things with twos. What you really want to do there with twos because you are doing so much of nurturing others, you've got to nurture yourself so you can better nurture others. So I think there's sort of like even biblical or ancient wisdom around this and sort of like we need to fill up our cup, we need to be filled up with the Holy Spirit so we can pour that out onto others in a very similar way. So with this, think about Thanksgiving, like nurturing meals, like you tend to need chicken vegetable soup, shepherd's pie, pumpkin pie, like a lot of those orange foods, ginger and cinnamon. Amazing. Very, very nurturing. And a lot of women, because kind of the fad today is do salads, do smoothies, do ice cold drinks. The reality is you're much better off doing a lot of these really warming herbal teas, warming soups in most cases. And also it's not you're meant to pour into others, but taking just a couple hours a week or in addition to that, maybe 20, 30 minutes a day for self care, for pausing. Because a lot of moms today, I mean from the moment they wake up to the moment they went to bed, they have something scheduled of just pouring themselves out.
- [20:06]
B
That's right.
- [20:07]
A
And so being able to fill, think about that. Like I'd get out a sheet of paper or a computer and write down what are the things that fill up your cup and start doing more of that on a regular basis.
- [20:18]
B
I totally agree. You hit nail on the head. I think that when you can make a journal about what you are doing to give enough energy back because the better you take care of yourself, the better you'll take care of others.
- [20:27]
A
And organ wise, you mentioned this. I think a lot of it's the upper gi, right? It's the stomach channel that's the most, you know, that upper digestion that's the most effective for those people.
- [20:35]
B
Totally. And if you wanted to look into betaine, HCL or some pepsin or something to stimulate the stomach. We talked about the ginger, remember? Like you were talking about eating some foods that are like yellow, orange. You want to stimulate the acids in your stomach and what will happen, I find that people give out and don't receive is that they'll skip their meals. They will skip their meals so much, they're like, I'm gonna make sure everybody's taken care of, so I gotta keep myself from eating. You wanna stimulate your stomach so that you can receive. You need to learn how to receive. Upper digestion's all about being able to have somebody give back to you.
- [21:07]
A
Yeah. And I think, and this is interesting too, here's another thing that happens. This happens with twos and earth elements, where they can often become overweight. And here's one reason why is there's a lot of psychological eating. Because they're not nourished. And it could be maybe their spouse isn't. Isn't pursuing and loving them the way they should. Or. Or they're not feeling affection and love because they've poured out so much. Listen, if you pour out a lot of love, you need to have love poured into you.
- [21:30]
B
That's good.
- [21:31]
A
You will actually eat food to try and fill the void.
- [21:35]
B
Wow.
- [21:36]
A
That's one thing that starts to happen. Because think about the quintessential. Like movies where there's a bad breakup.
- [21:41]
B
Yes.
- [21:42]
A
And a girl all of a sudden is. There's. They had love and now the love is gone. Eating a pint of ice cream, eating a bag of potato chips, eating a whole piece of pizza. That's in movies. Because that sort of thing has happened in real life and is true. But there is this void you're trying to fill.
- [21:58]
B
Yes.
- [21:59]
A
And so. And of course, there are some spiritual things. Doing and really spending time with Christ and having God fill you. That is a really important piece. But also thinking about when you're eating, truly nourishing yourself. What we tend to do is we tend to crave carbohydrates. But those carbohydrates really should be things that are subtly sweet, like cinnamon or pumpkin or squash. Not again. These refined carbohydrates. You do need to nurture yourself. You do need to listen to your body. But we tend to feed it in the. In the wrong way.
- [22:27]
B
That's right. That's right. I always, always pay attention. You're right. What you're eating.
- [22:30]
A
Number four. All right. Number four. No, no, Number three.
- [22:33]
B
Number three.
- [22:34]
A
Okay. Number three. Number three. I'll have you talk about these. These are the competitors.
- [22:38]
B
The competitors, the achievers. Individuals that make life interesting. So the people who are achievers, they want to get ahead in a positive way. Like in sports. You would have a very boring sports field out there if you didn't have the achievers. And I think that also pours into how we look at our business, how we look at life. We want to achieve and we want to make sure that we get, we want our family to get ahead. So anybody that's an achiever, I always say that has to do with a lot of energy production and a lot of mental focus. There are a few times I think that there could be mixtures of how people would say that these individuals use a lot of their brain power, which could be kidney. But I like fire. It's fire. It's like I'm an achiever, I'm gonna go out and accomplish something. I always say always nourish your heart, your adrenals and your thyroid. Those are the ones I always, I say endocrine system. So if you're asking me which ones we talk about, Tulsi or holy basil, I like holy basil. I like ashwagandha, I like using those to nourish those. And in personality when you achieve, a lot of times the achievers, I wanna get your viewpoint on this. They wanna achieve and sometimes they can be a little self critical that I need to achieve this. I didn't do enough, I can't do enough like that. You need to keep an eye on that.
- [23:48]
A
Yeah. Number threes. And by the way, my wife Chelsea's a three two of the. I'm thinking about like the people that I know. I know a lot of three twos. And those are the other group of people that are really close to me. Probably the most people that I know that I'm close with. And then again I've got a lot of other like nines. Exactly. So but Chelsea's a three two. My brother in law Noah's a three two. Andrew east, who we know, Andrew is a three two.
- [24:09]
B
Yeah.
- [24:10]
A
And so there are a. Yeah. So a lot of people. Dan Sullivan, he's a three two. So we've got a lot of friends that are three twos. And the threes here are. What they struggle with is self comparison. Oftentimes they're saying this person's here. And because they're competitive and it all depends on how you look at it. If you can keep it balanced to where you look at another person and you can stay happy for them and saying, hey, you know what, they're just pushing me to be better. That's a healthy mental way for a three just to allow other people to help them grow. Yes. But if they're looking at them and there's this level of biblical, a level of envy or jealousy or I want what they have or this sort of thing where you feel like I have someone else. I'm thinking of who's a 3, 2. And they are in the top 2% in their field in success. I would say so very successful.
- [25:04]
B
Yes, yes.
- [25:05]
A
However, they will compare themselves to the person who's number one in the field, the top 1%. And so they are constantly feeling like they're a failure.
- [25:13]
B
Yeah, totally.
- [25:14]
A
And so that. That's sort of that ditch.
- [25:16]
B
Yes.
- [25:17]
A
That threes can get into. And the other thing, threes, and this is really important, is that they tend to burn up a lot of cortisol. Yes, yes.
- [25:24]
B
They will burn up a lot of cortisol. Perfect point. Because when you burn up that cortisol to achieve one of the biggest things, when you get that drop in cortisol, you naturally notice that you start to have depression. You can have a little bit of sadness. And like you said, self compatibility. I find that individual out of three had to be very careful of self shame. Like you just said, I didn't do enough. And I always ask my patient if you feel that you are not good enough and you're starting to self shame a bit like, I didn't do this. Great. I didn't do this. Make sure that you start to nourish those organs and always write down, I tell them who's your idol or who's your person you look up to. And like you. I love the way you put it. Make sure that you know that those individuals are cheering you on. They're not trying to like, like say that you need to keep you down here.
- [26:07]
A
Well, this is also. Threes tend to be very, you know, they tend to be more extra. They're not always extroverted. Threes tend to be. To your point, they are looking at other people. They're looking for validation. There's some of that happening. But going back to this threes, their first hormone they're going to tip off tends to be cortisol.
- [26:25]
B
Yeah.
- [26:25]
A
Okay. Will you tip off cortisol? And here's what I see a lot of times too, with, with threes, if they, if they just, if they, they go way too hard, way too far out of bounds with. Their entire life becomes about achieving.
- [26:36]
B
That's right.
- [26:37]
A
The women will end up with hypothyroidism because that cortisol finally gets to the point where it affects estrogen, insulin. And then later on it starts to affect thyroid hormones.
- [26:46]
B
Yes.
- [26:46]
A
And knock the thyroid hormones down for men, they'll start to have low testosterone.
- [26:51]
B
Yes.
- [26:52]
A
And the reason, it's like, okay, if you're going, going, going, going. And so for a lot of those people, like I think about some men, I know where they, they just became overachievers and everything and tried to just. They poured themselves out. They were kind of like they were happy and motivated and pursuing their woman, doing all these things in high school and 20s. And then they get to the point, like in their mid-30s and 40s, where they're like, they're just burnout and like, they lack the motivation. The testosterone starts to drop down. That starts to happen. So I think for women, to your point, doing those adaptogenic herbs to keep cortisol in balance, you mentioned holy basil. You mentioned ashwagandha. Absolutely. Great for men. Get good sleep, take downtime, lift weights, eat red meat, do everything you can to stimulate growth. That's right.
- [27:37]
B
That's good.
- [27:38]
A
And the other thing is too, I think sometimes, you know, maybe you're hanging out with men less than you used to. Maybe you had a family and you're spending a lot of time with family and a ton of time at work. So today, maybe a lot of men, I see this, are working 50 hours. So I mean, they don't have this sort of time where they're kind of of iron sharpens iron with other men. Male bonding. Like, there was a study that came out and said men are the happiest if they can spend at least one day a week, if not two, for a couple hours with other men, whether it's working out or doing a guys night or something like that actually is really important for men and their mental health and their testosterone in order to do that.
- [28:15]
B
Yes, I agree. Because whenever you find that you are not hanging out or doing things to help build your muscle, Some of the biggest keys when you have low testosterone, thyroid issues. I always say, look at those small signs and subtle things that come up the tire around the gut. If you start to get a little weight gain around the gut, if you notice that your muscles are getting a little flaccid because that cortisol level is high, it's robbing your muscles of energy. You start noticing that you're having a little bit more of the cortisol high, your adrenaline is a little off, off. Skew on your blood work. Make sure that you make sure these little signs and symptoms are taken into account.
- [28:49]
A
You know, another thing here, as we're kind of talking about threes, threes can be a number of different elements. One of the elements in Chinese medicine, though, that we could talk about just quickly is the water element. And I think there's this element of threes where they are climbing the mountain. Okay. They're always trying to achieve and go
- [29:06]
B
up, up, up, up.
- [29:08]
A
However, one of the most important practices for everyone across the board that we get very little of today is going very deep. Like my wife Chelsea, she's a three two.
- [29:18]
B
Oh, man.
- [29:18]
A
She loves climbing, she loves achieving, she loves going for it. And she is way better at doing that if she has time where she can spend, you know, 30 minutes, a few days a week or an hour reading her Bible and meditating and highlighting and praying and, like, going deep. And that's another, I think, important thing. Think about it like this is like a tree. Like, a tree can only grow really tall and not get knocked over by a storm if its roots are going really, really deep into the earth to anchor it down.
- [29:45]
B
That's good.
- [29:46]
A
And so that's another thing I think that's really important for people as we're talking about cortisol, because cortisol. Cortisol is the hormone of movement. You're moving, you're active, you're doing things. Melatonin, that opposite, that deep, which is interesting. Melatonin actually goes into your cell, into your mitochondrial. It is the hormone of depth, of meditation, of those sort of things. And so you need to balance out that cortisol with going really deep, emotionally, spiritually, digging deep, reading God's word, meditating, doing those things and having good sleep.
- [30:24]
B
That's right.
- [30:24]
A
And if you do that, you'll be able to scale so much higher and further if you build that anchor.
- [30:30]
B
That's right. And you'll start to notice that the symptoms that you are having, like some of the weight gain and some of the things that come up, even, you know, dry skin, and you could have thyroid issues, like loss of third of the eyebrows on the outside. Those little things you'll take notice of. You'll start seeing those things start to diminish if you start to get deeper. And I love how you put it when you take melatonin. I love it when patients come in and I'll give them a higher doses of melatonin at times, and they'll tell me that their sleep gets deeper, they start to dream more, and they feel like they're more connected to themselves.
- [31:00]
A
Yes, 100% love it. Hey. So if you've ever thought something is wrong with me, but I just can't prove it, then this is for you. Now, you might be eating clean. Even what you feel like is perfect. Working out, taking all the right supplements. But you're still exhausted, still foggy, gaining weight, and you're not sleeping. And every time you ask for help, you hear the same thing, but your labs are normal. Here's what that actually means. Standard blood work only shows what's in your blood, not whether your cells can actually access it or not. You can give your body all the right inputs, but if your cells are in danger mode, chronically stressed or inflamed, they can't absorb or use those nutrients properly. If you're finally ready to heal, go to mybloodwork.com, you'll get an at home cellular blood work panel shipped straight to your home and reviewed on a private call with one of my senior health advisors at the health institute. And this will help you finally connect the dots between your symptoms at the cellular level. We'll also determine if you're a good candidate for one of our cellular healing protocols so you can finally experience lasting healing once again. Go to mybloodwork.com to check it out. All right, the next enneagram here we're going to hit on is number fours. Okay, Now I've got a four in my family. I've got a couple fours actually. I've got my sister and sister in law. They are, they've got their fours. And so fours are. And then we were talking about, so I think, I think Steph Meek, so Isaac, we talked about him, his wife Steph is probably a 3, 4.
- [32:38]
B
3 4.
- [32:39]
A
What do you think Steph is?
- [32:40]
B
I think she would be a three, four I think because that achiever personality comes fire element.
- [32:44]
A
She's very, she's a fire element in Chinese medicine in that way. And so. But talk to us about fours.
- [32:50]
B
Fours to me though, when they have the tendency to like you say, when they're very, very passionate. But they can also be in a sense independent. They can be a little internalizing. So those individuals are always seeking how they're unique. They're always trying to find out how they're individual. So some people who are artists, people who are the front man of a band, people who are very, very intellectual, they know that they're unique and they want to be sort of set apart. So I always say that individuals that get withdra, people who like to write poetry, people who like to think of an idea like a screenplay, those individuals to me are fours. They're just naturally artistic. And I always tell people that if you're a four and you can get withdrawn within yourself, you at times can be very isolated. That's one thing about the fours. And I tell people you can be very artistic and still be expressive. You still want to be around people and still make sure that you have your community. Because if you're too withdrawn, one of the things that you'll find out though is you'll start to lose that passion to be with other people and you can start to feel lonely and you can feel very abandoned about it.
- [33:54]
A
That's so good. It's so good. One of the things is we were talking about threes. They're like going as, I mean they're like climbing to the top of the mountain. Fours are a lot of times spending almost too much time sometimes in stillness and isolation. And sometimes they have the opposite probable problem in those cases. The other thing is they tend to be empaths. They tend to, they're the people where, you know, they can find the person in the room that is having an emotionally hard day, that's struggling. Like they feel the pain of others. Like I'll show this. So like my sister and sister in law, they'll see something on the news and they'll be shook up about it. They'll cry. I mean they will be emotionally upset. I mean if they see something has happened to another family or an animal or something like that, I mean they are literally moved to physical tears. And it's really impacting them in such a big way because they what a gift. Shift in ways to be able to feel the pain of others and notice when someone else is hurting.
- [34:50]
B
That is true. I love the way you put that. They're empathic and when they say empath, if you start to know that you can feel other individuals, one of the biggest keys is I always look at the heart and I look at their cardio system because they say the heart's so in tuned with the vibrations and the energy of other people. So I always encourage that the fours strengthen up their cardiovascular system, their blood flow. And that's like with exercise, it's about doing something that's high intensity to get that energy of that heart up. Because if you don't encourage the strength of the heart, one of the biggest keys, you'll start to feel more abandoned, more alone, more isolated.
- [35:26]
A
Yeah. And I think those, those types will tend to because they listen again, it's a gift being able to feel the emotions of others. But they also tend to over emotionalize things. They're going to have more ups and downs emotionally. Their hormones will tend to go, have greater spikes. Like I've noticed with fours who I've had as patients or family members, they tend to have a much rougher menstrual cycle.
- [35:50]
B
Wow, that's good.
- [35:51]
A
Yeah. Very commonly, because we're just seeing much more of these hormone spikes ups and down with those fours as well. So something that's really important is that you. And so sometimes you'd see these people, they're overly dramatic. Right. To your point. Sometimes they want the spotlight. But they are. Are the artists, the musicians, the creators. I mean, you know, they're those people that have such great gifts, but they also. And I was thinking about this as well, a lot of the women, they will tend to sometimes have their estrogen too high and their progesterone will get too low. And the progesterone is that stability, hormone emotional stability, keeping you anchored, your mind really sound. And so it's really important that you are eating for your hormonal health. You're eating for stability. And I would really focus on insulin. I mean, if your blood sugar is up and down, down all day, all the time. And sometimes the artist 10 again, it's like, I'm gonna stay up till 2am I'm gonna be like. Like there's this variation all the time.
- [36:50]
B
Yes.
- [36:50]
A
But the more that you can create some level of stability there again, insulin eating, more protein, more fiber, more healthy fat, low moderate carb, taking supplements that balance blood sugar like cinnamon, like berberine. You know, keeping that balance is really important.
- [37:08]
B
That is. And I think that's when you have good friendships, even for a four. I'm not saying you go out and get a whole bunch of friends, but having good friends that know how to, like, you say stay steady. It's really important for the fours to have a steady friend.
- [37:19]
A
Well, the other thing is for fours is you need to have friends around you that you can trust and that are there really supporting you. Because if you. Here's what happens. Like becomes like, okay, if you are around a lot of other fours all the time, and you guys, everybody's up and down together. Everybody's influenced. You need to surround yourself with anchors and around people that are like solid rocks helping support you and that are the right, encouraging people. Because if not, like, you're already prone to feel like you're betrayed. Even if it was like, for me, I'm an eight and we'll get into that. And I'm a little bit like, I was betrayed. Okay, well, nice verse. It's not. But fours will take a betrayal and it will affect them. And it's like a deep wound. The rest of their life. It can be if you don't really turn to God and really focus on healing in the right way and build that sound mind. But if not, you can be wounded and it can affect your whole life because you feel emotions more than others. So you really need to be more. Even more protective about your relationships because they tend to affect you more.
- [38:24]
B
That's right. I love the way you put the up and down. And I think that really having those stable friends and working on your blood sugar, whether it's using something like the ginseng or using something. Or chromium, using something to stabilize your blood sugar, something that gives you a little bit more warmth in control of your heart. Hawthornberry, maybe some danchin. Using things to stabilize the heart when it feels comfortable will make it feel steady, and you'll feel more warmth and you won't feel so abandoned, and so you won't have those emotional up and downs.
- [38:53]
A
Yeah. All right, let's talk about five, by the way. Of all of the types, I probably know the least amount of fives, But I know one that we both know pretty well. Dr. Will Cole. Yeah, he is a five. And so I just want to share this about. About fives. Okay. And let me share this about Will. I'm like, so Will and I, you know, we all went to London together last year and spoke at the. We were at the health optimization summit. It was a great event. And with Will. And I've traveled a fair amount with Will. And I talked to Will quite a bit, and I'm like, if I would. On a general day, you know, what Will does, He will go down the rabbit hole on the Internet for three hours, you know, reading about something that happened in 19 or no, like 1773, where this, you know, this person did this and this happened, whatever. So, like. But talk to us about fives a little bit, because it's a really interesting. It's a really interesting type.
- [39:49]
B
There is. The fives are so intellectual in the sense that they dive deep and they will, I say, internalize information. They're the investigators. They're the individuals that will always find out if a person is telling the truth or if what. The information out there is truly what it says. And so if you tell a five something, they're going to take what you said and investigate it, and they're going to find out. And they're great at finding out if a person's a liar or they. They think if somebody. They smell a rat, they're like, no, that. That's not true. And so the. The people out there are the individuals who could be like, really good lawyers and really good people who are on the law because they can really investigate.
- [40:27]
A
And I would even say scientists, like, they're. They're the research researchers are going deep. It's like, again, I mention what, like, hey, what did you read? You know, I read the biography of, you know, 30 people this year. Okay. You know, and then I read one about this and this and this. And so, yeah, they're the researchers. They're going very, very deep. Now, what can happen to some of those people is. And actually similar to 4, sometimes is this level of sometimes isolation or almost mental fatigue because you research so much that it's. You're exhausting some of those mental channels.
- [41:03]
B
Totally. I think that that's one of the biggest things when individual individuals or five that come in, they are literally the people that say, I, I can't think. My brain is too tired. I just feel so fatigued. I don't want to look or think about another thing. I don't want to try to figure this next problem out. So if you get to that point where small problems are hard for you to figure out or solve, and you're a five, we need to clear up the brain. When you strengthen the brain, one of the biggest things I find that really help, though, is really keeping the kidneys clean and the urinary system, because the kidneys really help with your bone marrow and the marrow of your skull to create more red blood cells. It helps it encourage the iron oxygen within your bones and within your head. So they always tell us in Chinese medicine and even Western medicine, they say if a person has weak kidneys, they will have weak thinking. And so I always try to give them something to start clarifying the kidneys to help their thinking.
- [41:56]
A
We know what's interesting about that. And yeah, and I want to say this as well. One thing as you're listening to this conversation, one thing when I started reading sort of this material, I always start to think about who are those people in my life that are like this that I can actually help support and understand them better? I mean, there's so much like me knowing that Chelsea is such an achiever and what she's doing, but she's also very supported and can, you know, could tend to want to please people and say yes to things. So know now, I mean, this is where it comes in. Chelsea's just going to say yes, and I'm just going to say no. You know, it's sort of this Thing where it's like, but I'm her protector because I know she is going to say yes to everything. I will step in and be like, no, we can't do. Because if I know that it's going to make her uncomfortable or we need to create a family boundary. Right. So I think there's so much value in being able to know other people, those types. As we talk about fives, this is the sort of person that will be in the lab all day, in the library all day, in the book all day. And then they'll do it for so many days. And you're like, you need to get outside.
- [42:56]
B
Yes.
- [42:57]
A
One of the greatest therapies is sunlight. In fact, a lot of people, the way that vitamin D is created in your body is you sort of absorb it through your skin via cholesterol and then it goes to your liver, that activates it. But then it's your kidneys as well that's sort of responsible for part of vitamin D utilization. And so your kidneys, to Dr. Chris's point, is a really important organ to support there. But I would say for fives you need to balance going deep but then getting outside, moving, doing things, being active. To your point, I think it's a really, really important combination there and keeping just flow and movement continuing to happen. Because when you go really deep or you're indoors a lot, that, that can create a level of stagnation. We got to keep, we got to keep moving things.
- [43:39]
B
That's true. When you get so caught up in your thoughts and let's say you're inside and you're investigating and you don't move, you're not, not producing those certain types of proteins that your body and your muscles need to create with movement. And that feeds your brain. Those brain derived neurotropin factors are really encouraged and strengthened by sort of myokines, those little, like those little muscle proteins and molecules that go up to your brain and you need to have movement. One of the biggest things too is individuals who overwork their brain. They'll always have like a stiff back because kidneys always have to do with the hip flexors. You need to stretch your adductors, you need to make sure that your quads are stretched and you need to make sure that you get a really good strong core if you're going to do something like that.
- [44:22]
A
Yeah, I would say a prescription here and this is something I know Dr. Cole does. We talked about him being a five is he's that person doing deep research. But I've noticed When he's doing a lot of his calls now he has a treadmill.
- [44:32]
B
Does he?
- [44:32]
A
And so he's actually even. Yeah. So he'll do all of his calls and keep moving. But it's really wise on his part. So if you're a five and you're that deep researcher, digging deep all the time, time you're indoors, you're a lab tech, you're whatever you want to be able to three times a day, get outside, take a 20 minute walk.
- [44:48]
B
Yes.
- [44:49]
A
Something like that. Where you're breaking up the research, the reading, those sort of things. And you just need to create boundaries.
- [44:55]
B
Yeah.
- [44:56]
A
Because like, you're going to go deep, but you're going to. And they also tend to sometimes dive into more conspiracy theories. And not to say sometimes conspiracy theories are absolutely right and sometimes they're not, but it's less about that, it's more about. Okay. There is a level of where you got to take breaks from that. All right.
- [45:13]
B
Yes.
- [45:13]
A
Let's dive into. So again, we talked about this. You just. Sunshine, Sunshine, sunshine. Get outdoors more often. Care for the kidneys. Yes. Number sixes.
- [45:23]
B
Number sixes.
- [45:23]
A
I don't know a lot of sixes either, but I don't. We talked about Andrew east earlier. Shawn Johnson East.
- [45:29]
B
Yep.
- [45:29]
A
His wife Sean is definitely a six. I can remember Chelsea and I sitting in a room with Sean and she's looking around and we're like, what is she looking at? Like, sixes are ultra loyal.
- [45:40]
B
Yep.
- [45:41]
A
But they're also like. I'm trying to think the best way to put this. She was like planning, like, if something went really wrong. They're the warriors. Like, they're like the. Something could go wrong. She was like planning the escape if, like, something would, you know, happen or go wrong. And I'm like, anyways, it's just not the way I think. But it was so, so it's so great. So six sixes are. They're loyal.
- [46:04]
B
They're loyal. I always look at them as the, the individual in school when they were younger that always looked out for the underdog. They're always. They're loyal to a fault. They will. If somebody's getting treated bad, I'm going to be loyal to that person. I'm. Be compassionate. And as they're. As they're rooting for that underdog, they will get worried for that person and they will find a way to make sure they're protected. And you'll find a lot of individuals, they're always as a six, wanting protection for others. So you'll See them, like, looking for an escape route. People have the go bags, right? The people that says, I have enough, you know, things to help protect my family. And when they get to that point, I always say, you're worried, but you have fear. So we have to be careful if you're a loyalist, that you're not in a fear mode for other people's lives. Like, you're not afraid that something bad's gonna happen to them. So I always try to encourage what's. The fear is kidney and bladder. So I always say that. It may sound unusual, but when you are driven by fear, they always say your kidney qi and your adrenals are really, really drained. So we always talk about adaptogens to help your adrenals. And when you say go outside, the other thing, too, I love about kidneys is if you're fearful, one of the biggest things is, like, make sure you spend time in water. I don't know what it is you need to ground out and get in water. If you love the ocean, you probably are six. Get out there and get some water in there and get some activity.
- [47:23]
A
Yeah, Yeah, I think that's great. You know, when I think about more of those kind of motherly instincts, I. I think that, you know, sixes embody a lot of those. I mean, I think twos as well, we talked about. I think there's elements of nine, but I do think sixes are part of that as well. And so I. But. But I. But I. But there's also. To your point, I think there's this level of. Oftentimes there can be a level of. And when we use the word fear, fear does not necessarily mean, like, you are really, like, frightened or scared. Fear could be fear of disappointing others, fear of never having your dreams come true, fear of something bad's gonna happen to your kids. That's a really, really common one there. But fear of others. Or again, we had this ice storm in Nashville here a few months back, and it's like, sixes are. I mean, they were the first ones that wiped out the bread and milk out of the grocery store. They were the first ones that, you know, just were like. They were on it.
- [48:23]
B
They were on it.
- [48:24]
A
They were on it. Okay, so it is important as well. And so. And part of that is, you know, I think from. I think about this, like, meditating on the Bible, Matthew 5 and 6, the Psalms, like, God is for you. He's not against. Like, he is your right hand. He's your helper. He's your fortress. He's your protector. So I think, you know, meditating on the Bible and knowing, hey, you can only control things in your control, then don't worry, it doesn't add anything to your life. So I think that there's that element to your point as well. Also those adaptogenic herbs and I think some of those adaptogenic herbs are going to be more of the. We talked about the adaptogens earlier for the threes. I tend to think of those as being more of those, maybe like the ashwagandha and the rhodiola, more of those. Those yangchi boosters that can be more energizing. A lot of times for sixes to kind of calm your mind down a little bit. It might be more beneficial to do things like the rishi mushrooms, those sort of. That are a little bit more adaptogenic, but calming, supporting sleep, calming the mind could be good there too.
- [49:28]
B
Love it.
- [49:29]
A
I want to dive into sevens here and there's quite a few. I know quite a few sevens. Sevens are the party people. Let's, you know, let's have some fun. Let's make fun of this. So let's talk about, about, Talk about seven.
- [49:42]
B
They are the, the. I think they're all fire. I think that they are the people who want the life of the party. Life would be very, very boring if you didn't have a seven in your life. So things would not be fun. They're the individuals. Like if you're a person who's a five, like, it's always internal. Your, your seven friends going to be the person that goes, come on, we need to go out and have a great time and come out with me and let's have a get together. So sevens always want to get together. They always want to bring people together. They're compassionate. They really, really strive and work themselves overboard to make sure everybody is together and that they have a good community. That's where some mothers, some individuals, they want to have their family reunion. They want to have all the people together every Christmas. Everything's kept. And if they. The other problem is if you overwork yourself being the seven, you'll start to get a little resentful and upset because you're doing so much to bring everybody together. So I'm saying as much as you want everybody to come together, you need time for yourself. That's what I believe.
- [50:35]
A
Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I'm thinking about sevens, actually, I just realized, I think Steph meek is a 7 8, by the way. Way. I think she's a 7 8, actually. I'm almost certain of it. We'll have to tell her to listen to this episode. So, so, but, but sevens are. Again, they are. Let's have fun. Like, let, let's. Like, like this is really, it's, it's really important to them that they are having joy and fun and having a great experience.
- [50:56]
B
Yes.
- [50:57]
A
And. And they tend to be more extroverted oftentimes. A lot of times we see that with sevens. And so, but, but sevens are, you know, it just, it's like anything. It's just about creating a balance. Balance, that's your gift. Lean into that. You should be having fun. That's it. That's really important today. But then there's also this importance of discipline. I think sevens have the hardest time with what ones have the easiest time with. And that's creating structure in their life.
- [51:23]
B
Yes.
- [51:23]
A
Okay. That sort of really hard. Structure and discipline. And you know, like, sevens tend to be great at doing things and moving and putting on events and doing those things. Things. But if it's done without structure, it's not scalable. Like there's, there's growth. Doesn't happen. I think about it like this. If you try and do a garden, like certain plants.
- [51:42]
B
Yes.
- [51:42]
A
In order for them to grow, like we, we, we did a garden last year. And so like for our tomato and cucumber pants, we did towers. Right. To kind of allow them to really grow up and thrive. And green beans. And that's what sevens are like. Sevens. You're natural. Listen, you're going to grow.
- [51:57]
B
Yes.
- [51:58]
A
Okay. You're going to grow. You're gonna be around people. You're the life of the party. All that's happening. But if you wanna thrive in life, your greatest weakness, that if, or at least if you don't make sure you're able to do this, you'll get stagnant or rot or things won't happen the way they should if there's not structure there.
- [52:17]
B
That is totally true. And I love it when you say they need structure. Cause it's really important if you're the life of the party to allow somebody that has structure, that somebody can help feed you to help your growth. Because what I find is when they get burned out and when they're always it. There can be a level of not say, perfectionism. I just find that they're going to get everybody together. They want everything to be kind of in its right place to make sure that it's all ready to go. And they almost think that I'm going to do this the right Way. So let me do it and I'll put it all on my shoulders.
- [52:47]
A
Yeah. I mean, I think about it like this. Okay. Let's say, for instance, you're going on a family vacation.
- [52:51]
B
Yep.
- [52:51]
A
Okay. And let's just use, you know, the woman's the seven. And let's say, you know, the husband's the. The. The one. Okay. Somewhere there. Okay. The. The. The seven is like, all right, like, and they've got kids. We're going to do this and this. Like, we're going to go swimming in the ocean, and then we're going to go dinner at this place. We're going to meet this couple for dinner. We're going to do all of this.
- [53:11]
B
Y.
- [53:12]
A
And the one is also has to say, okay, honey, we also need to, you know what, What? We got to consider a budget.
- [53:19]
B
Y.
- [53:19]
A
Right. So there's a budget for this. This is the amount of days. Yeah. We also do need to. To, you know, eat or something. Like, we also do need to, you know, like, have the. Like. But just. We also need to have the structure. So. And this. This is what great relationships are. There's this level of, especially a husband and wife. There's this element of, like, give and take, but knowing each other's gifts and allows you to build and grow to the highest level when that happens. But again, as we're talking about sevens, you need that structure. And so really, you know, I would just say for sevens, you know, like, from a dietary standpoint, you just being consistent with your meals.
- [53:55]
B
Yes.
- [53:56]
A
Eating breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Going. Trying to go to bed at similar times or almost the same time and a similar conversation earlier. Insulin, make sure you're getting protein, make sure you're getting fiber. Make sure you're getting stable blood sugar. But those are. Those. And the other thing I noticed, too, sevens have a harder time with consistent workout. Unless they've got a group they're doing it with.
- [54:20]
B
Yeah.
- [54:20]
A
And they tend to have higher adaptability. If they have a workout partner or it's group fitness or a trainer or someone like that, their ability to be more consistent goes up because again, that's their partner inconsistency. They're going to move. They can get into it.
- [54:33]
B
Right. That's right. That's right.
- [54:34]
A
That's important for them.
- [54:35]
B
It is. I think that if you have a fire, you're the life of the party. You got a big street. You just need to make sure that you don't burn yourself out. Like, the fire just gets burned. You got to have a nice direction to where you can put that energy into. If you have a great group of people, you can have your passion, you can have a fun time. But I always tell individuals, if you are passionate and you have somebody to help funnel that passion, remember, as you said, find a good group, but also know your day, your cortisol levels, your insulin levels. Most people who are life party, I always find this. They always usually will burn out. And I say this lovingly, it's not towards the afternoon or evening. They will get stuff rolling and usually around that four or five o' clock because that's when you need to start rebuilding your cortisol and start rebuilding all these, these hormones. So I'd say calm down towards the afternoon.
- [55:23]
A
Well, yeah, exactly. It's this habit of, hey, once dinner hits too, especially that's time for calmness, relaxation, more, you know, kind of dialing that back. All right, let's dive into eights.
- [55:35]
B
8.
- [55:36]
A
I'm a very. I'm like, you gotta go, I'm very eight. Okay, I'm very eight. And. Well, let me, all of you talk about eights first and then I'll. And then I'll. I'll jump in. I.
- [55:45]
B
The eights are. I, I mean, my first thing is the individual who is. I say the justice seeker. The individual who is, I don't say confrontational. An 8 knows who they are. In my opinion, like you are an eight. And you know, and it's what you want, you know how things work. And I say confrontational or the justice seeker is like they're always going to right the wrong. And it's not just about like law and order, but it's always saying that I'm going to make sure that I will produce things and be very, very good at producing things, but it's also to protect others in the sense that I'm going to put good things out there and it's going to help everybody. And I always say that if you're an 8, you usually have a lot of metal quality with you. You usually are very, very structured about where you're at. And when I say that people are really good judges, they're really good people who are judges of character that are eight, in my opinion. What do you think?
- [56:37]
A
Well, yeah, the way that I think about eights, I agree with all of that. I think also oftentimes they're noted as the challenger they want to see. Okay, here's the way I think about things. I want to build something, but I also want it to last. And so if I have someone on my team I'm working with. Or even, by the way, this can cause some things with Chelsea and I, if she's going to buy something, a lot of times I'm like, well, I want her to buy something. But I will. The best way I can think of is poke holes in it. Or I'll press around just to make sure. Like, because I want to. If we're buying something, I want it to last 10 years. I want it to be the best thing. I want to make sure we like. So I have this thing, too. I'm not as bad as a five would be. Again, Will Cole would spend three years studying something before. But for me, I will spend three. Like, if I'm going to buy a car, I'll spend three months. Or if you're like, studying, researching what's the best. Because actually, it really bothers me emotionally. Like, if I would go buy something.
- [57:27]
B
Yeah.
- [57:27]
A
And it wasn't the right thing and I couldn't return, like, it would actually bother me. So, like, I'm very much into. But all that being said, I think about this where I am. The challenge things. Poke holes at it, making sure it holds up.
- [57:40]
B
That's right.
- [57:40]
A
And then if it holds up and it's built well, awesome.
- [57:43]
B
Great.
- [57:43]
A
Like, I get really excited about it in that way. So, yeah. So aids in Chinese medicine. They tend to be either more metal or more wood, and they tend to be more. Again, a lot of times it's leadership. It's like having a vision for the future. Having, like, this is the way something should be built. And I'm going to kind of poke holes and figure out to make sure it's built the way I want it to, the way it should be going forward. Where eights have a weakness, what I see, and I think this for myself, is sometimes I get so caught up in the work and doing things and the structure and all of those things that it just. I spend too much time on that. Not much time. Having fun. Living in the present moment, too. Because I think a lot of times I'm looking at the thing or into the future so much that sometimes I forget to enjoy the present.
- [58:32]
B
That's right. And I think that when you challenge something and you give, let's say, good information and you're researching it, I find that those individuals have a bit more of not a burden. But I do believe that the eights feel a weight. Because when you go to an 8,
- [58:49]
A
I feel responsible not only for myself, every person in my life, I feel responsible for them.
- [58:56]
B
That's why I Would say you're a protector because people go to eights and know that the information you're putting out there is. You've researched it. You are going to put out information that's going to protect people. And so people naturally will come to you as they feel protected by you. So you're going to get individuals around you going, Josh, he's going to, He. He's researched it, and I feel safe with him. So the weight on your shoulders or the weight on an eight, I'm always saying, saying it's good to have that responsibility, but go out and do things that get you out of that realm.
- [59:25]
A
Yeah. There has to be this sort of barrier of, like, fun and play and rest and work hard. Because for me, because I tend to be like, I'm going to take responsibility, by the way. I feel responsibility for you. I feel responsibility for my mom. I feel responsibility for my kids, my wife, my patient. I feel responsibility for so many people that, that anyways, it is. If I let it, it will get very, very heavy on me. And that's why, again, I would just say rest and fun.
- [59:52]
B
Yeah.
- [59:53]
A
Like, that's the thing. Like, if I go and take regular vacations and the other thing for me, and I've talked about this before, if I work, I need to shut it off at dinner.
- [60:01]
B
Yeah.
- [60:02]
A
If I do that, I can actually put in a lot of hours. I can work hard. It's good. But if I keep working or answering calls or texts or jumping on the phone or working on something, something after dinner and then not taking weekends off.
- [60:13]
B
Yeah.
- [60:14]
A
It just becomes. I just, I get. I get burnout.
- [60:16]
B
That's right. Whenever. When we talk, I. I think that I can feel your natural protection for me. And I love it because you asked me questions that challenges me to ask, what is this a path you need to take, Chris. Like, is this. Because I know it's for protection. And the, the biggest thing, I love it when you say with metal and, and wool, wood, metals, they need a little heat. They need a little fun to soften them up. And the wood quality about you making things grow because you naturally make everything grow. Like, it's just like you make trees grow around. Around you, but you would need, like. I love how Chelsea's so introspective and deep. She's that water like that, introspective. She feeds you and you go, okay. So to me, I say, if you're going to be that kind of personality, you're right. Cut it off at a certain point, work hard at a certain Time and then take the rest of the time off.
- [61:05]
A
And the organ of work in the body tends to be the liver. And so for me, like if I get burdened, it's. It's definitely liver issues. So there are supplements that just supporting liver bile movement, you know, those sort of things like N acetylcysteine. So the glutathione precursors are really big. This is why bone broth is great. Glycine is really great. Things that kind of, especially in the evening, theanine, glycine, phosphatidylserine, the kind of mind calming sort of things are really good. Getting more in that vagal state. So that'll help eights a lot along the with. Listen, you can't take responsibility for things that should be God's responsibility. I can do everything to support the people around me. And the other thing. And I'll tell you, I had a hard time when I first got into practice, really student clinic, because I met with my pastor because I would give people advice and sometimes I would take it and thrive and see results. But that person that wouldn't see the result because maybe they wouldn't follow the plan. I took it as like that was my responsibility that they weren't changing. And I felt literally like a boulder. Like I felt like this such heaviness, like that was my responsibility. My pastor really kind of took it off my shoulders and it was so helpful saying that's not your responsibility. You can love the person, encourage them, create the plan. None of the rest of that's your responsibility. And so it was very helpful for eights knowing, listen, the weight's not on your shoulders, it's on God's shoulders. Jesus says this, you know, my yoke is easy, my burden's light. So meditating on that and living that is really important. Let's talk about nines. Oh, one of my favorite nines in the world, you know, is right here. So. So. So you're a nine. Let's. Let's talk about nines.
- [62:37]
B
I'm. Nines are the like the peacemakers, the people who are always trying to make sure that everybody else gets along. Yes. That makes sure that people are at peace with each other. They actually feel out of sorts. When you think your friends are not getting along and they feel responsible if they will feel that somebody's not getting along or they're not getting along with somebody else. Like, we want peace, we will do everything we can to make sure there's peaceful peacefulness at the expense of us, like wearing ourselves Out, Out. And that can lead to quite a bit of worry, and that can make us feel very worried that somebody's mad at them. So if you're a nine, you want everybody to get along. But there is a natural tendency for people in the nines area to sort of think that, I hope I don't get this person mad at me. I hope Josh is not mad at me. I hope I didn't make somebody upset.
- [63:20]
A
Yeah.
- [63:20]
B
And when you have that responsibility as a nine, as a peacemaker, these individuals are the best negotiators. These are people in a company that like to get people to come together together and make sure that this person's okay with that.
- [63:31]
A
Can I say something else I love about nines? Nines, you don't typically have ulterior motives that often.
- [63:40]
B
No, I don't.
- [63:40]
A
I mean, your. Your. Your. Your motive really is I want harmony and peace with everybody.
- [63:45]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [63:45]
A
Like, because sometimes you could have other. That might be like, you know, trying to do things for their own gain. This happens a lot less with nines. Again, I think there. There's a there for. For me, I tend to be very, very trusting of nines for that reason.
- [64:00]
B
I think that we do, personally speaking, we talk about Isaac when we're going out to eat. I love it that when you ask a nine, they'll say, well, wherever you want to go eat. What do you want to go eat? Where do you want to do? And we really mean it. Like, we do not care. And we want peace so much because maybe we've had a youth or in our youth, we had like a tumultuous home or a home where there was a lot of argument or something. And we want people peace. But with the trust factor, I think that we as nines, we want people to know that they can feel safe with us. And we love that kind of congruency. To the point, though, too, if you're always going to be worried as a nine that people are mad at you, I always try to encourage strength of. Again, digestion up, stomach is worried. Pancreas and spleens worry. You can have blood sugar issues. You could have ulcers. You could have gerd. You could have ulcerative colitis. You really can. And so you really got to make sure your digestion. You need to eat, eat, be with your friends and know that people aren't mad at you. Like, stop worrying if people are mad at you if you're the peacemaker.
- [65:02]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I think there's an element of people pleasing there that can happen if you get out of balance. I think it is similar to four. It's very different than fours, where fours are more empaths. Like they're feeling what everyone else is feeling and they're taking the hit emotionally. Nines have an element of that, that not in this really deep way, but in this sort of disrupting the digestive system sort of way there as well. So I do think that meal plan very similar to the soups and the broth and the herbal ginger, herbal teas and those sort of things like soothing, like you want to eat the sort of diet that's soothing to the body, calming to the body there as well. And I will say that weakness that nines tend to have is that because. Because they're trying to create so much harmony. That's a main goal. We want harmony. But sometimes in order to grow or do the right thing in life, you have to create disharmony. Like for instance, a 9 could stay in a bad relationship. That's not right for them. Right. Because they don't want to upset the other person. They don't want to create disharmony.
- [66:05]
B
That's right.
- [66:07]
A
Or they could if it's in the workplace and there's somebody there that is. Is doing something really offensive. Again, there's a lot of examples of this, but I think that where nines really need to step up. Like nines. I think most of the time nines know that there is a level of I know this is wrong or I know that this person isn't doing something that they should be doing. So it takes a lot of effort for a nine to go and address. Be confrontational.
- [66:36]
B
That's right.
- [66:36]
A
And it's.
- [66:37]
B
Yes.
- [66:38]
A
But it is important on those very specific, very important occasions that you push through that and you deal with that. Because what's going to happen is there's going to be this low level disharmony actually going on until you deal with it. So you need to kind of look into the thing I love about nines too. Nines are really good at being present time conscious. Like I think about this with Isaac. I think Isaac is so one of the things I love about him is it's like, man, let's bond now. Let's connect now. Let's experience this now.
- [67:08]
B
Exactly. He wants connection.
- [67:10]
A
Yeah. And it's so, so. And you're at the same way in terms of having that nine element of like do this. But you also need to have elements of thinking about the future. And again, it's not, by the way, when we Say brother, every one of these Enneagram types or Myers, Briggs or Big 5, you're capable of this, but it's just not, it doesn't tend to be your tendency. So it's a muscle you need to grow and develop and need to be able to do in order to balance out that thing yourself. And one of the last things I want to say here is there's so much value in knowing these other types. Like for me, I think sometimes I'm probably. It would be easy to take my personality the wrong way because I give a lot of constructive criticism and I feel like I try and walk in a Christ like manner and give people like, I try and do it with love and kindness and patience. But sometimes if I'm in a hurry, I don't soften it as much as I can. And people might think again, like my mom, she could take it personally. But really I'm doing it because I love the person. I feel a sense of responsibility. I want to help them grow to their highest level, but they could take that the wrong way. But I think just knowing that for me to know you want harmony. So for me to think through and know, okay, Chris wants harmony, but also sometimes he doesn't want to cause disruption. There's there and maybe I can be that person to help deal with the disruption. Point that out to him and encourage him and show like. And so, so, so there's so much value in our own health and supporting the health of others and building great relationships with knowing and understanding kind of this connection between your type and your health.
- [68:48]
B
That's right. I, I think that when you, when you say if somebody could take constructive criticism wrong, the nines can get indecisive because you're right. We want everything to go around, go right and then we can become indecisive in our own selves. So I feel when you're telling me something that's very constructive, it's safety. It's like because you're trying to give me some guidelines that I would be so indecisive. Well, maybe I'll do this. And you'll say, well, have you thought about this, this and this? Three options go down to one. And so as a nine, I'm like, that's very, very good. And I remember we talked with Isaac. He said he's so good at even with his business, like knowing where people need to be because he knows how they are.
- [69:30]
A
Yep.
- [69:31]
B
But I'm not speaking for Isaac. But we don't really want confrontation. We may need somebody else to be able to handle some of the confrontation within a business or something, you know.
- [69:39]
A
So, yeah, this is about, you know, what's the. There's of course, one of the most famous sayings and I can't remember what I believe. Maybe a stoic said it, but like, know thyself. Yeah, right. There's so much value in knowing yourself, but also if you want to have great relationships. Knowing others. That's right, knowing about them. And part of me feels like this is part of what love is. Love is like. It's hard for me to love Chelsea well if I don't know her. That's right. Right.
- [70:02]
B
Good.
- [70:02]
A
And so getting to know others. Well, one thing I'd encourage everybody to do is think about what type are you. If you haven't taken an enneagram, go take one of those tests. It's fun. It's fun to do. By the way, one thing I don't condone is you taking a personality type and saying, oh, I'm just this way. Like, I could be like an eight. Like I'm just confrontational or I'm just a. Or I'm just. No, that's not an excuse. We're all called to be Christlike. We're all called to. To embody the fruits of the spirit, operate with high character. So no matter what you are, you are called to operate in these things with the greatest level of love. But we all also. God gave us different strengths. So you want to operate in those strengths at the same time. So, hey, take a test. Write down what you are. Write down some of your closest, you know, your spouse or your kids or people close to you, and think about how can I support that person in specific ways of what they might need in order to be healthy?
- [70:58]
B
That's it. I think knowing others and understanding that their personality, they're not stuck in that personality, but also seeing the strengths and the beauty of that other personality type, of the friends in your life or the people in your life, and realizing they're operating in that arena. We all have our ways. We can. Can shift and change and that's great. But I. That's one thing that I've learned over the years is that having our group, our men's group and the. They all have different personalities and they all have strengths and they all feed into my life in a very positive way. So always find out possibly the personality people around you because you'll realize that they are going to help you in some way.
- [71:37]
A
Yeah, listen, it's really important for your health. I mean, There was a study out of Duke Duke University and they found that if you want to become more healthy and fit, surround yourself with more disciplined people.
- [71:46]
B
Wow.
- [71:46]
A
Right? So, I mean, again, we become who we surround ourselves with. So think about, about who are the people in your life. Maybe there's some people you need to spend less time with, maybe some people you want to spend more time with. This really can have a big impact on your relationships and your health and your flourishing as a person. So, so important now I, I, I love this conversation. I hope everybody who's been watching and listening has enjoyed the conversation. I want to encourage you to subscribe here. If you're not subscribed to the podcast. This allows us to have more of these in depth conversations with people here like Dr. Chris Motley and just know it's the number one thing you can do to support us and the show is to subscribe and share. I think people are going to find this really fascinating because this is a conversation that I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about in terms of your personality and how much it actually impacts your health.
- [72:33]
B
That's right.
- [72:33]
A
It's really, really important there. So just to let you know if you know anybody, if you've ever taken the enneagram or one of these tests, hey, share it with a friend on text or on social. We're so grateful, grateful for you sharing this and for subscribing here as well. I also want to let you know, I want to encourage you follow Dr. Chris Motley on Instagram. He's got a great Instagram following. Also he's got a fantastic podcast, the Ancient Health podcast there with Dr. Chris Motley. You can find him there on Apple there and all podcast networks there as well. So he's a great person to follow and I'm going to have you on again the next episode. I'm going to have you on again in a couple of weeks, months and we're going to dive deep into how to detoxify every organ in your body. So excited for that conversation. So thanks so much for coming on here, Dr. Chris. Hey everybody, thanks so much for watching and listening and I'll see you on the next episode.