Podcast Summary: The Dr. Josh Axe Show

Episode: Dr. Peter McCullough on mRNA Vaccines, Myocarditis, & Hydroxychloroquine
Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Dr. Josh Axe
Guest: Dr. Peter McCullough

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep and controversial discussion about the COVID-19 pandemic, early treatment protocols, vaccine safety, long COVID, and the ideological shifts in healthcare. Dr. Axe interviews Dr. Peter McCullough, a practicing internist, cardiologist, epidemiologist, and prominent critic of the mainstream COVID-19 response, on his approaches to early treatment, the McCullough Protocol, spike protein detox, and historical parallels in medical practice. The conversation covers what Dr. McCullough sees as missed opportunities, medical suppression, the crisis of myocarditis, and practical strategies for both prevention and recovery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. COVID-19 Pandemic Response: Challenges & Early Treatments

• Main Argument: Mainstream messaging heavily stressed that COVID-19 was "untreatable," neglecting prevention and early treatment.
  • "You turn on your local news...they never presented a practical segment about what you could do to prevent the infection or reduce its intensity and severity. Not once." – Dr. McCullough (06:26)
• Fear-based Messaging: The media’s running “death tickers” created an environment of fear rather than practical advice. (10:53 - 11:39)
• Misclassification of Deaths: Many deaths labeled as COVID weren't directly due to the virus, some statistics vastly inflated.
  • "You could have had a PCR test that was falsely positive in January and died of a heart attack in September. And...they counted that as a COVID death." – Dr. McCullough (12:12)
• Comparison to Influenza: Infectious disease deaths are generally overestimated due to how they’re coded.
  • "About 15% of influenza deaths are directly due to influenza, about 85%...It's the same issue." (14:24)

2. Development and Details of the McCullough Protocol

• Early Treatment Publication: Dr. McCullough outlined an outpatient, early intervention protocol in the American Journal of Medicine (August 2020), but mainstream institutions ignored it.
  • "The current state of the McCulloch Protocol...has been credited with saving tens of millions of lives." (15:15 - 17:02)
• Key Elements:
  • Fresh Air: Avoid isolation and poor ventilation early in the illness. (17:03)
  • Nasal Sprays and Gargles: Use saline, povidone-iodine, xylitol, or colloidal silver to reduce viral load. Supported by randomized trials.
    • "Nasal sprays up the nose twice a day for prevention...worked marvelously." (18:03)
    • FTC sued companies for advertising these benefits.
  • Nutraceuticals & Supplements: Zinc, vitamin C, vitamin D, quercetin, famotidine (an antihistamine used for GI).
    • "Every single study of vitamin D was positive. Higher levels conferred improved survival...it actually reduced the incidence of infection." (20:13)
  • Antivirals: Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin—extensively discussed, with details on their history and suppression of use.
    • "Once we had enough data on ivermectin, by December 2020, it was in the McCullough Protocol." (26:54)
  • Other Interventions: Monoclonal antibodies, corticosteroids, colchicine, antibiotics (for secondary bacterial pneumonia), and early antithrombotics for blood clots.
    • "Blood thinners and high risk patients—put patients on early, don't wait." (35:03)
  • Permissive Hypoxemia: Advises against premature intubation, accepts lower oxygen levels if patients are stable. (36:38 - 38:17)

3. Suppression and Controversies Around Off-Label Treatments

• Suppression of Early Treatments: Accounts of the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) suing supplement companies; FDA and AMA "waging war" on ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, ignoring decades of safe usage for other diseases.
  • "The FDA and AMA launch a war on Ivermectin." (29:47)
  • Lawsuits against the FDA succeeded in forcing them to remove false statements about ivermectin.
• Politics and Profit Motives: Discussion speculates financial gain as a motive for focusing exclusively on vaccines. (29:52 - 30:20)

4. Long COVID, Myocarditis, and Spike Protein Issues

• Long COVID:
  • Cause: Retained spike protein is at the root, but government-funded research failed to focus on this.
    • "The cause of long Covid is the spike protein is retained in the human body. That's the cause of long Covid. Period." (48:12)
  • Treatment: Nattokinase and bromelain (natural enzymes), along with curcumin (for inflammation), form Dr. McCullough’s “Ultimate Spike Detox.”
    • "Nattokinase, bromelain, curcumin...People are getting better." (54:53)
  • Myocarditis:
    • Vaccine-related myocarditis outstrips rates from infection based on adjudicated case data.
    • "Not a single MRI confirmed case of myocarditis with the virus alone." (57:25)
• Vaccination vs. Infection: mRNA vaccines cause higher spike protein antibody levels and a full-length indestructible spike protein, possibly persisting indefinitely.
  • "The average person who takes the vaccine...11,000 [antibody units] compared to about 2,000 for infection alone." (60:00)
• Sweating and Spike Protein Elimination: Sweating (exercise, sauna) and hyperbaric oxygen therapy may help eliminate mRNA/spike from the body. (78:51 - 82:59)
• Personal Stories: Both Dr. Axe and Dr. McCullough share examples of family and patients who suffered or died following conventional guidance, with little or no early treatment. (42:37 - 46:50)

5. Medical Ideology & Historical Parallels

• Comparison to Historical Medical Errors:
  • Cocaine, Tobacco, and Vaccines: Draws parallels with doctors promoting cocaine/elixirs and cigarettes, resisting evidence of harm for decades.
    • "Virtually every drug company made...cocaine products...The lead addicts were doctors and nurses." (66:03 - 70:17)
  • Vaccines as Religion: Discusses vaccine ideology as a belief system, likened to a religion within medicine.
  • Government and Medical Resistance:
    • "Vaccine companies cannot be sued directly...vaccines have unavoidable harms." (72:54)

6. Personalized Diet and Lifestyle Approaches

• Dietary Principles:
  • For COVID and Recovery: No alcohol, minimize sugar, starch, and saturated fat. (86:00 - 90:57)
  • Preferred Proteins: Fish, beans, nuts, egg whites, non-fat dairy, chicken, beef (occasionally); eliminate pork; emphasize fruits and vegetables.
  • Supplements: Nattokinase, bromelain, curcumin, N-acetylcysteine, vitamin C, zinc, D, quercetin, echinacea, elderberry, oregano.
• Nasal Sprays/Gargle as Prevention: Advises consistent use, especially when traveling, supported by large studies.
  • "Do the nasal spray and gargle twice a day and for sure on days you travel." (99:00 - 101:19)
• Broader Nutrition Perspective: Accepts that personalized diet is crucial; skepticism toward blanket keto/carnivore/vegan recommendations, but openness to targeted application.
  • "We want the diet to be kind of...cardiac preventive, but also cancer preventive." (87:47 - 89:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Public Health Messaging:
  “The goal was to avoid hospitalization and death...But no one came out from public health agencies and said, listen, get ready, America. We're all going to get it.” – Dr. McCullough, (07:15)

• On Data Integrity:
  “How could they instantaneously, minute by minute, have a death count? Honestly, to this day, I think it's fraudulent.” – Dr. McCullough, (11:10)

• On Suppression of Early Intervention:
  “The National Institutes of Health, the CDC and the NIH...never mentioned or cited this paper [McCullough Protocol]...As if it didn't exist.” – Dr. McCullough, (15:15)

• On Spike Protein:
  “There was something about the spike protein that was very unnatural. Like why is it identical to a segment of HIV?” – Dr. McCullough, (51:05)

• On Medical Ideology:
  “Vaccines throughout three centuries have essentially become a religion in medicine...if anybody questions a vaccine...they're considered to have a mental disease called vaccine hesitancy.” – Dr. McCullough, (65:39)

• On Diet:
  “Your bread eating days are done.” – Dr. McCullough, (87:29)

• On Long COVID Recovery:
  “Nattokinase, bromelain, curcumin...People are getting better. And we're seeing every measure of spike protein go down.” – Dr. McCullough, (55:36)

• On Personalized Medicine:
  “There needs to be a level of personalization for everybody.” – Dr. Axe, (85:34)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Subject | |-----------|----------------| | 06:26 | News/media failed to provide actionable public health advice | | 12:12 | COVID death statistics misclassification explained | | 15:15 | Publication and details of McCullough Protocol | | 18:03 | Nasal sprays/gargle as early prevention | | 20:13 | Vitamin D studies and legal suppression stories | | 26:54 | Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin history, FDA suppression | | 29:47 | Suppression of ivermectin and lawsuits against FDA | | 35:03 | Early use of blood thinners (antithrombotics) | | 38:17 | Permissive hypoxemia and ventilation dangers | | 48:12 | Long COVID root cause: retained spike protein | | 54:53 | “Ultimate Spike Detox” supplement protocol | | 57:25 | Myocarditis and vaccine effect discussion | | 60:00 | Antibody titer comparison: Infection vs vaccine | | 72:54 | The Vaccine Injury Compensation Act and ideology | | 87:29 | Dietary guidelines for recovery (no sugar, starch, alcohol) | | 99:00 | Daily nasal spray/gargle as prevention | | 101:59 | Dr. McCullough’s improved health story with protocol adherence | | 104:07 | Where to find Dr. McCullough and Wellness Company |

Takeaways & Practical Advice

• Focus on prevention and early treatment using protocols that combine fresh air, nasal sprays/gargles, key nutraceuticals, and evidence-based repurposed medications.
• Long COVID and vaccine injury may be linked to persistent spike protein; detox strategies include enzymes (nattokinase, bromelain), curcumin, sweating, and hyperbaric oxygen.
• Mainstream medical institutions have historically resisted evidence contrary to dominant narratives (as with cocaine and tobacco).
• Diet should be personalized, anti-inflammatory, and avoid sugar, starch, alcohol, and excess saturated fat.
• Open dialogue and critical evaluation of medical practice are necessary to avoid repeating historical mistakes.

Resources & Further Learning

• Dr. Peter McCullough: petermcculloughmd.com
• The Wellness Company: twc.health
• McCullough Foundation: mcculloughfnd.org

For those seeking an alternative, integrative perspective on pandemic preparedness, early COVID interventions, and long COVID recovery, this episode provides extensive references, personal anecdotes, and actionable advice in a candid, sometimes controversial, but deeply principled discussion.