← The Dr. Josh Axe Show
The Dr. Josh Axe Show
Functional Medicine Doctor: The Hidden Toxin In Your Home! Why You're Constantly Exhausted
01:04:17
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- [00:00]
A
We really are seeing such an increase in all of these chronic illnesses. The three main drivers, I think, are the way we've changed our diet, and then we are putting so many environmental toxins into our environment unknowingly. And then the third thing, which has been so alarming is what we've done to our indoor air environment.
- [00:19]
B
How do you have somebody determine if it's mold or if it's some other type of condition?
- [00:25]
A
If you have any problems with your thyroid, especially autoimmune thyroid, it's a signal that you may not just be nutrient deficient, you may be toxic.
- [00:34]
B
Are there any therapies or supplements or things in particular you think? These are also really, really beneficial when it comes to supporting longevity.
- [00:42]
A
All the B vitamins, the carnitine and the phospholipids, a lot of these things that we've talked about, I think those are absolutely foundational. If our mitochondria are working well, a lot of our systems are going to be working so much better.
- [01:12]
B
There are two ways to heal and treat the body today. Conventional medicine and more advanced functional medicine. And more and more doctors are starting to help people heal using functional medicine with everything from how to help women get pregnant in their 40s and supporting for fertility, treating mold toxicity and illnesses, and other chronic issues like autoimmune disease, and also promoting longevity. And the answers between conventional medicine and functional medicine are very different. Well, today I've brought in Dr. Ann Shippey. She is a expert in functional medicine and helping women get pregnant in their 40s and helping people heal from chronic issues. And today, we're going to dive deep into the top diet, the supplements, and the ways to heal naturally using functional functional medicine. And Dr. Ann Shippy, she has been helping people heal for over 20 years now, has a really great, thriving clinical practice in Austin, Texas. And today we're gonna be talking about how to heal your body with the power of functional medicine. Ann, welcome to the show.
- [02:13]
A
Thanks so much for having me. So great to be here.
- [02:15]
B
Yeah, well, I was just so excited to have you. Cause I'd seen some of your videos online, and you've just really gained a really great reputation on helping women get healthy, especially in their late 30s, 40s, and beyond. And also just helping people with tough conditions, everything from mold toxicity to chronic infections and autoimmune diseases. Conditions that are just continuing to grow today. The first question I have for you is, why are we seeing more chronic illness today? And, you know, it's so crazy because when I opened my practice 20 years ago, you know, it was a lot more of the same conditions. Right. And now there are so many more of these, you know, rare autoimmune diseases and other health problems than I think even we had 20 years ago. What do you think the biggest reason for that is?
- [03:01]
A
We really are seeing such an increase in all of these chronic illnesses. So you have it From Compared to 20 years ago, when I started my functional medicine practice. It's really alarming. So the children's health to the fertility issues, to just a lot of human suffering. And the three main drivers, I think, are the way we've changed our diet. We're eating food that is highly processed, a lot of additives, a lot of pesticides in it which disrupt the body in so many different ways. And then we are putting so many environmental toxins into our environment unknowingly through our air, our water, our food, and so many other things. And then the third thing, which has been so alarming and so fascinating to figure out how to help people get better is what we've done to our indoor air environment and this astronomical increase in the amount of people being exposed to toxic mold.
- [03:56]
B
Well, you know, I've read that most indoor air is somewhere like 5 to 10 times more toxic than our outdoor air. And so people think, oh, I'm inside. Like, even, you know, I remember driving last summer through Nashville and there was a sign, and we rarely have this here. I mean, it's of course, so much worse in places like California or Mexico or China. But a sign saying, hey, the indoor air quality is low today outside. And I thought, I mean, people should have these signs in their home, like, you know, your indoor air quality is terrible. Get outside. And so when you have patients who have mold issues or issues with the indoor air, what are some of the things you start to do to help them heal and overcome those issues? And what are even warning signs or symptoms that somebody maybe has a health problem that's related to indoor air?
- [04:39]
A
Such great questions. Unfortunately, a lot of the mold situations are not as obvious as your potential with the broken pipes. A lot of times it's hidden. So it's some flashing in windows that weren't done properly, or a chimney or an air conditioning system that's not condensing and managing the air humidity properly there. It's usually hidden. Like, my mom just went through a mold remediation and it was all hidden. It was a little leak from the attic that you couldn't see that was going down into a bedroom wall. It was a slow leak behind a dishwasher that there was mold all the way up of a wall and a cabinet in the bathroom that had a. Had a little leak. She had no idea. So the first thing for people is just to have some suspicion about it. And we probably should just all be checking regularly to see if we have a mycotoxin level. I feel like it's important to talk the distinction between the mold spores that are being produced by having a mold problem and the toxins that the mold makes just as a byproduct of them living. And so it's those toxins that actually cause a lot of the health problems. So if you think about the mold as being a major environmental exposure, depending on where your weak spot is in your body, it can start to cause the symptoms. So some people might just have more frequent headaches, some people might feel more a lack of energy. Other people might notice some hormone imbalance. So it can be so many different symptoms depending on where your body is at the time. Yeah, I had a really. I first learned about mold on my own body. Oh, wow. Yeah. I had gone to a conference. It was early in my functional medicine career. I'd just been doing functional medicine for about four years, so I was looking for everything that I could to teach me more how to help my patients. And I had gone to Bill Ray's environmental health conference and there was a little segment on toxic mold. And I'm like, wait, we didn't learn about that in medical school. I knew mold could cause infections in the body and people that were immunocompromised, but I had no idea that it could be such a major toxin exposure. And subsequently, less than a year later, after I'd started to try to learn how to test for it in my patients and how to treat it, I got very, very ill. I started losing all my hair so much that, like, the bathroom vanity was just covered in hair. And I was so tired. I'd get up on a Monday morning and I'd just be like, oh, my God, I don't know how I'm going to take care of my kids today, much less take care of my patients. And then I started having neurological symptoms like als. I started losing the strength in my right arm and I had so much pain in my body that I didn't really want any, even my kids, to hug me. I was really getting scared. And that's when I. The light bulbs went on and I started investigating what was going on in my house. And so instead of having that continuous decline from a really bad Toxic mold exposure. I was totally able to recover the strength of my arm came back, the circulations, the little muscle that I was having in my body. Everything got better than ever. And it was by getting in a clean environment and then really starting to actually study my own detoxification pathways. Better to learn how to zip the toxins out. And what's really like. I feel like as hard as that was to go through that, and as scary as it was, the things that I learned have really helped me to know what to do to keep my own health protected, as well as how to help my patients better. So it ended up being a blessing.
- [08:30]
B
Well, I mean, you mentioned some symptoms that most people wouldn't think, oh, that's mold. Like, I mean, I think when most people get a headache, their first thought isn't like, oh, that's mold. They're like, okay, my neck and traps are tight. And it's, you know, there's a, you know, that type of cervicogenic headache from just tension or maybe it's a food sensitivity or maybe it's stress or maybe it's genetics. I don't know. But that's where I think most people's headaches head goes with something like headaches or fatigue. Oh, maybe it's my sleep isn't as good as it should be, or I'm not getting enough B vitamins or something like that. But you mentioned some really headaches and fatigue. And then here's another one, thinning hair or hair falling out. Most people would think, oh, that's a thyroid issue or something like that. But you're saying, yeah, those are three big things with mold. Here's my question for you. How do you have somebody determine if it's mold or if it's some other type of condition? Is there specific tests or things that you like to do?
- [09:29]
A
Great question. So there's a company called Real Time Laboratory that I think does the best job of checking for the mycotoxins in the individual. So it's a urine test. It's easy to do. It's a few hundred dollars. It's very, very easy to do. And then I'll have them do it with a glutathione challenge. So glutathione is one of the main things we make in our body, but get depleted, especially when we're being exposed to a lot of different toxins. So I have them do it with and without, so that the really bad detoxifiers that don't make glutathione very well. We. We don't miss because they're really the ones that are most susceptible, me included. And then it's been so fascinating because I've also seen it impact especially men's fertility. So I've seen sperm counts really drop. So if anybody's experiencing fertility issues and then I've also seen the mycotoxins cause an increase miscarriages. So it's, it's such a breath. It really just depends on what's going on in your body as to, to whether to think about mold as being a potential root cause. But especially if you're, you know, you're wanting to be super proactive about your health and you've had any leaks in your house, I highly, highly recommend doing the testing proactively even before you get sick.
- [10:48]
B
We have a saying in my, in my practice here in Nashville and I've got two practices. I've got the Longevity Clinic which is local and we a national clinic called the Health Institute. But I say test, don't guess. Yes, right. It's like, I mean the number of people today that are wasting money on the wrong supplements. I mean they saw an influencer along and say hey everybody take an apple cider vinegar gummy or this green or whatever. And it's like, well, there are probably five other things or so that your body really, really needs that you're missing. And that's really what you need to supplement with supplements are for supplementing those gaps of things that you're likely missing. But blood work or urine analys or testing will just tell you. Now let me say this though, if you're doing the right testing because the other thing you'll find out is these conventional tests today I was even surprised with this. Even the company function, their markers that they have, some of them are reading them in conventional ranges, not functional medicine ranges. And that's a really big deal. When you look at blood work and do the right blood work, it's so much different than conventional blood work today.
- [11:51]
A
That's. Yes. It's actually kind of upsetting the way that the lab normal values are set like a vitamin D of 30 is in the normal range, but it's so insufficient. You need a vitamin D level of at least 50 to 80 to have good strong bones, healthy brain, healthy heart, healthy immune system. So yes, you really, you need to look beyond the traditional labs. And what's been so exciting. So I was a chemical engineer before I did this and so I love data. What's been been absolutely so much fun over the last 20 years is to see the additional testing that we can do to really look deeply into the body, both for longevity as well as to solve some of these complex problems like Parkinson's and infertility and all of these things.
- [12:38]
B
Yeah. So one thing we do in our local clinic, we do really advanced blood work panels of, we do intracellular nutrients. So, you know, so it's like people think, oh, the magnesium of my blood will tell me a lot, but. Well, sometimes you have a lot of things in your blood but they're not getting in the cell. Right. And that's important. So there are things like that. And you mentioned glutathione. I mean, this is one that I feel like it's sort of. Sometimes it's talked about a lot other times it'll go years and people won't think about it. But I found when I really focus with certain patients on that one single thing, improving glutathione, for some people it is the single greatest. I don't know if the word cure is right, but remedy towards helping them overcome things, especially people with liver issues. Anything that's detoxification related. A lot of autoimmune disease. Like there was a study done. And the other thing is a lot of people are underdosing it. You know, a lot of the studies are more like at least 2,000 milligrams, some upwards of 4,000 milligrams of. I saw a recent study on it helping essentially reverse autoimmune disease in a really large group of people when they were doing higher dose of glutathione. So it's probably the most underutilized, especially for detoxification protocols.
- [13:44]
A
And what I see measuring the glutathione levels in people is that almost everybody's deficient. Like it's very.
- [13:51]
B
Yes.
- [13:52]
A
Like not even just sufficient. They're deficient. So to get optimal. Exactly right. Like for one of the things, for those of us that are really dedicated to having healthevity, really knowing our glutathione levels and then dosing accordingly to get an optimal level.
- [14:08]
B
Yeah.
- [14:09]
A
Changes everything. It changes what happens with our immune system. It changes what happens with how well our brain is healing our heart. Like so many things are affected by having a, an optimal glutathione level.
- [14:20]
B
You know, example of this. So I, I treat a lot of women with hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's and there's a lot of what I see is probably the number one nutrient that I see really moves the needle. And there's quite a few. But the number One is probably selenium. Now after that, I do think zinc is really important and vitamin D and even iodine in certain cases with certain people, and then a lot of times methylated B vitamins. But selenium is one of those nutrients your body needs for glutathione. And I think one of the reasons why it helps Hashimoto's so much is because you are boosting glutathione production. So I think for autoimmune disease, something that's not talked about enough and maybe the biggest root thing that's going to help people reverse it is actually greatly up leveling the glutathione level. One of the biggest health problems I see isn't diet or supplements. It's disconnection. People are overstimulated and running on empty. And that's why simple daily rituals matter. Small habits can either drain you or bring you back into balance. One of the simplest grounding habits I use every day is using menu kora manuka honey. This is the real deal. It's raw, it's never over processed. And the jar I use has an MGO rating of 850, which is about as potent as it gets. That means real support for gut health immunity and for steady natural energy without the crash. What I love is the transparency. Every batch is third party tested. It's certified glyphosate free and fully traceable. And you can even scan the jar and see exactly which beekeeper in New Zealand it came from. My kids eat it straight off the spoon. I stir it in a tea or take a spoon before I record a podcast episode. It's not just honey, it's a daily health habit. Go to manucor.com axe to get 31% off plus $25 in free gifts with their starter kit. Can you talk about what glutathione is as well, just so people understand too.
- [16:26]
A
So glutathione is something that we make in our body. It's the tail end of the methylation pathway. So as we're those wheels are spinning to put a carbon group onto things. It makes glutathione. And then intracellular glutathione helps with so many different things. It's one of the most powerful antioxidants that we make in our body and it is absolutely critical for eliminating heavy metals and many pollutants. We really, really need it. And it's been like if I was on a desert island and I could have two things dropped into me that would be one of them. Like I Just I know, especially for me and how. What my genes are and then just the world that we live in today, that it's absolutely essential for me to be healthy.
- [17:10]
B
And it's the number one thing to help your body deal with oxidative stress. So think about it like, there, sometimes you're deficient in things, right. And so you need to go and kind of help, and sometimes you need to go and kill things. But glutathione is your body's number one protector to keep from further damage from happening. So, yes, you need to help heal the area, but you also need to keep it from being damaged. And so it's sort of like creating a shield around certain areas of your body, like yourselves. It's protecting all of these different areas. You were gonna mention something about the thyroid. Would you share what you were gonna share there?
- [17:43]
A
I think about the thyroid as being like the canary in the coal mine.
- [17:46]
B
Oh, of course.
- [17:47]
A
So, like, if your body is not able to eliminate the toxins that you' exposed to over time, I think that thyroid is letting. If you have any problems with your thyroid, especially autoimmune thyroid, it's a signal that you may not just be nutrient deficient, you may be toxic. And that really focusing on the detoxification.
- [18:08]
B
Yeah.
- [18:08]
A
Part of healing can make such a big difference. And it's so fun to see, especially if I can catch somebody early in the thyroid journey to reverse the autoimmune markers and to have them not need the thyroid meds. If it's. If it's later, it's a little harder. We can usually get the dosing of the thyroid meds down by doing the detox and replenishing the nutrients. But it's such a great way to track are we doing the right things for this particular person.
- [18:37]
B
I don't know if you saw this. There was a study that came out last week from Yale, and it said that something like it was 92%, I'm almost certain of this. And they said, but over 90% of women on levothyroxine, the conventional thyroid medication, likely it's doing almost nothing for them in terms of their symptoms. And I was even surprised. Let me say this. I generally believe that, but also I was generally surprised that that came out, and then that was published in jama. And I thought to myself, wow, I mean, that is really telling. I mean, what are your thoughts on that?
- [19:14]
A
I think when we're helping patients with thyroid issues, that we really need to look at their symptoms, and then we also need to look at the labs, and we need them to be optimal. So we need to do the full range of thyroid testing. So not just a TSH, that we need to get the free T3, the free T4, the reverse T3. And so when we start to help the body to detoxify with things like glutathione and we build up the nutrients like selenium and other things that the thyroid needs and we clean up the gut with. Because there's almost always a gut issue going on as well. Right. They need to be absorbing the nutrients and not driving inflammation. That that's really the key to feeling better. When we address all of these aspects of why the thyroid has been the canary in the first place, that's when people feel better. And I think when they're doing their studies, they're not looking at, like, what's the root cause, what else does this person need? And how do we really help them to get the nutrients that the thyroid needs to run?
- [20:13]
B
Now, when you're recommending thyroid, like, if you have a patient and you do have them take a thyroid medication, are you having them take a levothyroxine? Are you having them do more of an armor or nature throid or what are you recommending?
- [20:26]
A
It's so patient individual, because the one's
- [20:29]
B
T4 and the others are T4 and T3, but various.
- [20:32]
A
So for the patients that can do that conversion of the levothyroxine, which is usually synthroid tyrosen, for the ones that can convert it into T3 just fine, then usually just treating them with the T4 is best because then their body knows what to do with it.
- [20:52]
B
Yeah.
- [20:53]
A
For people that aren't converting very well, then a lot of times we do need to add in some T3, or even some of my patients will have some of the armor thyroid or nature thyroid, which is the glandular from an animal. Right. So sometimes we'll use that with stacking some T4 or T3 to really get the full breadth of the thyroid hormone that they need. It's all based on feel. Like if you just start the thyroid medicine and they don't feel a lot better, then we have work to do. We need to really customize things for that individual patient.
- [21:29]
B
Yeah. I mean, I can appreciate the integrative approach. I will say for myself, I try and do everything I can to not have them do the medication at all. I mean, my focus is very much, hey, this first three, we tend to have, hey, let's focus for three months. Once we have the blood panel back and we know every nutrient you're off on. We know all of these patterns. Let's go fully at that. And I feel like almost, I'm not talking about 90 plus percent of the time, it's typically not needed. Now, sometimes, you know, if you've had somebody had their thyroid removed or there's still a major chronic issue, you know, that's when sometimes I think that there's, there's a place there, but there are. So, I mean, let me ask you, what percentage of doctors today do you think are doing the full breadth of testing for hormones? Because I think a lot of times they're only getting their TSH checked or just their T4, but a lot of times they're not doing the T3 or reverse T3 or some of these other hormones. And so a lot of doctors don't even have the full picture of what's going on.
- [22:23]
A
Not only do most doctors not order them, but if the patients ask for them, often they refuse to check them.
- [22:28]
B
Really?
- [22:29]
A
Yes. So it's important when you're choosing your doctor to make sure that you have a doctor that at least is willing to look at the things with you. And I really, I have so many of my patients that we regularly also measure the thyroid antibodies and a full autoimmune panel, because I see that once they have one autoimmune disease, that they're, they're. That others are brewing. And we want to make sure we're doing everything possible to reverse the autoimmune disorders.
- [22:56]
B
That's right. Well, yeah, I mean, and I'm glad you brought that up. I think the statistics are somewhere near 80% of patients with hypothyroidism have Hashimoto's. And now here's another stunning one. 60% of people that have hypothyroidism don't know they have it. So there's a lot of people walking around with a lot of women with thinning hair, low energy, just feeling off metabolism issues, and they don't realize they have a thyroid problem.
- [23:24]
A
Well, and unfortunately today a lot of women are just being told, oh, you're just getting older.
- [23:29]
B
That's right.
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A
It's so maddening. Like using my, my mother as an example. She just turned 95.
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B
Amazing. Wow. Incredible.
- [23:39]
A
As a, you know, a signal, like if she doesn't, if she feels tired, she, like she wants to know why. Even at 95.
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B
Yeah, exactly.
- [23:49]
A
So you should feel great if you don't, you know, well into your 70s and 80s, there's something going on. There's an opportunity to optimize. And certainly if you're only 40 or 50, you're very young. And we just need to find the things that help you to feel energized.
- [24:07]
B
Yeah. You know, one of the other things I know you're an expert in, and you actually recently wrote a book on, is fertility. And I'm seeing this more and more. I have a lot of friends, I can think of so many. And they're in their 40s and they're, they're trying to have kids later on in life. You know, like, I had kids a little bit later on in life too. And so I'm 44 and I've got a two year old, a daughter, I've got a six year old daughter, and Chelsea's about six years younger than me. She's 38. But we have so many friends. And again, just generationally, especially millennials having kids much, much later on. And I think a lot of times all of a sudden, women might get to their little later on, they're like, oh, I want to have kids. And sometimes once you have one kid. Let me just tell this quick story. So Chelsea, we had this period of time where I think Chelsea, she didn't know how many kids she wanted to have. I always, always said, hey, I want to have three kids, or maybe even four. And so Chelsea knows this is just how I'm wired. She knows if she gives me an inch, I'll take a mile. So she was always hesitant to say, no, I want three kids or four. She didn't know. But after we had one, I think Chelsea just fell so in love with our daughter Arwen. She was like, okay, I want to have two. And then I'd never heard her say this before. We were with a realtor in a house, and his name was Christian. She's like, he said, hey, how many kids do you want to have? And she said something like three. Well, probably four. And I was like, wait, what? What? Amazing. You know, so. But I share that to say we love our kids so much. And I think sometimes once people have one kid and then a second, they realize, wow, this is just so magical. It's so meaningful. It's, you know, part of God's design of us being able to flourish and add value and have this deep connection with kids. And that being said, I think a lot of times people start getting in their 40s and they think, well, I actually want to have another kid or I want to have my first kid. So all that being said, one of the things you've specialized in is helping women get pregnant in their 40s. What is the secret or what are the things that are most important for women to get pregnant? Late 30s and into their 40s?
- [26:17]
A
Well, first of all, I just want to address this conversation that's out in our conversations. And I'm even having 28 and 31 year old women being afraid of their fertility being lost.
- [26:33]
B
Sure.
- [26:33]
A
So it's one in six couples that are dealing with infertility. And so especially for women that are not sure when they're going to have their kids, there's so much fear around this. So I just want to break that paradigm because, yes, if you have root causes going on in your body, the body puts on the brakes and it says no babies right now. So what I do in my practice is I get to work on the root causes and then also just have people come in and optimize. Like I have this patient, such a fun story. She even stretched my idea of what was possible. She came at 46, she had a couple of older kids, she had met the love of her life. They wanted to have a baby together. And so she was just coming to see if it was a good idea, if I thought it was possible. So I said, let's check some labs, let's see what's going on. And we found some environmental toxins, we found some nutritional deficiencies, we found some disruptions in her gut microbiome. And so she worked really hard for three months and then she got really busy with work for a few months. And then they had one night where they weren't careful because I had said, you gotta use condoms while we're doing this detox, while we're doing your microbiome reset. No getting pregnant right now. And then they had one night where they weren't careful and they got pregnant it when she was 47. She'd already turned 47. And so now just a couple weeks ago, she had turned 48. And she just birthed a beautiful baby girl at 48. Her pregnancy, she was, her body was so tuned up, so she was super fertile. Her body was so tuned up, she had easiest pregnancy ever. She actually, I didn't, she didn't get my permission on this, but she had a home birth in the in water at 48.
- [28:12]
B
Perfect, amazing.
- [28:13]
A
And everything's really, really great. So the message that I want women to understand is that when their bodies are super balanced, they're repleted with nutrients, they are not toxic, their microbiome is healthy. They get super fertile.
- [28:29]
B
Oh yeah, it's so incredible. You know, when I have women coming in and we're working with them on pregnancy and we've seen some similar things, it's just. It's so. Yeah, it's so exciting. It's one of the most exciting things to be a part of and supporting someone in that. But, you know, there's a few hormones that I really look at, and I think environmental toxins are incredibly important. But I really look a lot at cortisol and insulin as two of those hormones. What are some of the. And of course, estrogen, progesterone. Those are, you know, some of the most important, if not the most. But when I start to see that kind of hormone cascade of, hey, what is typically tipping the thing off that's causing that hormone depletion or that may be causing hormone imbalance, I oftentimes look to cortisol, look to insulin first. The impacting other hormones. But. But what are some of the hormones you look at that are the most important when you're looking at labs to say, okay, really need to dial these in in order to support fertility?
- [29:21]
A
This is such a great question. So one of the biggest things, and when I was researching my book, there was so much data to back me up on this. So one of the things that I think is really happening today is just this pace that we're going in.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And so the body doesn't know the difference between we're just working hard, playing hard, and doing all the things, versus we're in dire straits, we're moving the tribe. We're not ever resting, we're not getting into a relaxed state. So I don't count sitting on your phone scrolling as being a relaxed state. Right, Exactly. So a lot of times what's happening when I look, I like to look at the whole hormone cascade. So what most people don't realize is that when the cortisol levels are going up, when the adrenal glands are working really hard, they're basically slurping up. When I explain this to patients, I'll make the little slurping sound. They're slurping up the progesterone and the estrogen and even the testosterone and running it over to make cortisol.
- [30:19]
B
That's right. You know, I recently did a podcast episode where I went through and I. And sometimes people will call this the cortisol steal, right?
- [30:26]
A
Yes, exactly.
- [30:27]
B
To where essentially your body has this decision, do I make sex hormones or do I make stress hormones? Right. And if you're diverting, what happens is all of These hormones and energy can get diverted into making cortisol, so you don't have anything left for estrogen and progesterone to support fertility.
- [30:43]
A
And then that's the signal to the ovaries or in the men, the testes. It's not a good time to make babies. So we're putting on the brakes, the check engines, lights on. And so that's such an important piece to address. So really taking a look at what's going on with that hormone cascade and finding the ways that you can put the right signals in. And sometimes it is the toxins. It's your body having to work so hard to try to get the toxins out that. But it's also sending you more into that hypervigilant cortisol state.
- [31:17]
B
Now, are there any specific cause? I know, and I know you think it the same way I do. When I'm looking at a patient, I'm not. Like, sometimes I see it could be practitioners get in this sort of ditch where it's like, everything's toxicity or everyone needs this keto diet, or everyone needs this. I just really look at it, and I know you too, as personalized medicine. Everyone that comes in, I look at the panel, I look at the history, I look at everything together. And then I customize something for the individual. And it's not just so we're looking at toxicity, but we're also looking at what are the deficiencies, what are the hormonal things going on? All of it together. My question for you is this. So we talked a little bit about the toxins. We talked about cortisol and this being the biggest driver. I mean, this. The busy lifestyle. What are the most common nutritional deficiencies today that are contributing to fertility issues?
- [32:10]
A
There's so many of them. It's really quite remarkable how many deficiencies that we're seeing. And most people, even that come to me, they're already trying to eat well. Right. So they, they, they're surprised when we see these. But there's magnesium, zinc, selenium. Like, we're seeing massive. Almost everybody is magnesium deficient.
- [32:31]
B
Yeah.
- [32:32]
A
Like, that's just gotta be one of those supplements that most people take.
- [32:35]
B
Yeah.
- [32:36]
A
And then there's a need for more antioxidants. So CoQ10, vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid, the glutathione. I mean, it really is. We're energy sufficient. Like, we're getting plenty of calories but not enough nutrients. So it's so great to be able to test and to be able to tell people which things they need. So I was kind of laughing because I've got this book that I think most people can read and know what to do to protect their fertility for both men and women.
- [33:08]
B
Yep.
- [33:09]
A
And then I've got my practice. It's super busy going it. So I've been working on this online program so that people can have access to the labs and to be able to know what to do. Right. And to, and to get a little bit more teaching than what I can offer in the book, actually a lot more teaching. And, and I know I need to simplify it, but I like, I so want people to be able to have access to checking their nutrients, checking their microbiome, checking their toxin levels. Like, it's really been hard. So right now in the program, we just give people a menu. There's a couple core things I really want everybody to test, but then there's a menu. But I'm laughing because there's so many things that we can be checking to really get our bodies optimal for fertility, both the men and the women, so that people are curious that they really want to know and to do that work to not just help their fertility, but to help them have the healthier baby. Because it's, you know, with the whole field of epigenetics where we know how our genes are getting dialed up and dialed down. Like, we can pass up on such better epigenetics to our children by having done this work up front so that, so that they have less chance of having autism and diabetes and autoimmunity. Like, it's such a great, great period of time that most people are missing out on that. I mean, you're, I'm sure your kids are super healthy because you've known exactly what to be doing for both you and your wife to really have their, your body super strong and healthy and all these little epigenetic factors for your girls to be as positive as possible so that they're super healthy for their life and for their fertility.
- [34:53]
B
You know, we were joking around the other day. My, my wife was so even though we feed our kids super healthy, they're very healthy. You know, when you have a two year old, they still get sick, you know, and you're like, gosh, you get kids just, you know, going to school and just all the. And then like our two year old right now, I mean, she puts everything in her mouth. And so like yesterday she licked a fly swatter. We're like, oh my gosh. And then she like, eat dirt. And my wife is like, well, you know, you did write a book called Eat Dirt. I'm like, okay, well, I did. And it has some of those principles. And so she's winning. She's doing good. Yes. We are very, very conscious of doing everything we can to keep our K healthy. And so it's. It's a lot of fun. I do want.
- [35:31]
A
And maybe you have another one or two coming.
- [35:33]
B
Yeah, yeah, maybe. Maybe. Everybody stay. Everybody, everybody stay tuned for that. You know, as we've done a lot of these markers in our practice and like, doing more the cellular blood work, one of the other nutrients that's come up, basically you. You had the most common ones that we see too deficiencies there. But. And I think most women know this, but like folate, I see deficient constantly and especially in women that have already had a pregnancy. Right. Because when you're pregnant, your body uses a lot of B6, a lot of folate, a lot of magnesium, and part of it is a lot of the blood building nutrients. I think the single reason, biggest reason why post pregnancy, and this is a Chinese medicine principle too, but women after pregnancy oftentimes have major blood deficiencies. And they've never gone and actually gone and built their blood and ate the right diet post pregnancy. All these ancient cultures, they know it. So, like, a lot of these women are eating soups and very specific recipes for the following, like at least three months post pregnancy. But a lot of women, this hasn't been handed down in America today. So a lot of women don't know what to eat after giving birth.
- [36:40]
A
Exactly. And I really advise all of my patients to come back and do testing four to six weeks postpartum, because you really don't know what the baby's gonna take. There was just an article that came out, out in the last few weeks that shows that the baby can actually pull from your muscles. So we've known for a long time that the babies can pull from your bones when they need calcium to build their own bones, but they can actually pull amino acids from your muscles. So it's really important to know. And then the other thing that I really look for is for my patients that want to do that have been doing a vegetarian or vegan diet. It's really challenging to have. Have a sufficient amount of amino acids. So I know some people are doing it for ethical or religious reasons, but that's especially. It's so important to do those amino acid panels and the essential fatty acid panels to really know if you have the right fats and the right amino acids. And then my favorite Supplement for preconception during pregnancy and postpartum is choline and phosphatidylcholine.
- [37:46]
B
Yes.
- [37:47]
A
So I think that should be a mandatory, like prenatal vitamin, a preconception vitamin and a postnatal vitamin, because we really need the choline for our own body to continuously be doing repair and rebuilding, but especially for the babies, they're growing cells so rapidly, they need the choline to build those cell membranes.
- [38:11]
B
Hey. So if you've ever thought something is wrong with me, but I just can't prove it, then this is for you. Now, you might be eating clean, even what you feel like is perfect, working out, taking all of the right supplements. But you're still exhausted, still foggy, gaining weight, and you're not sleeping. And every time you ask for help, you hear the same thing. But your labs are normal. Here's what that actually means. Standard blood work only shows what's in your blood, not whether your cells can actually access it or not. Not you can give your body all the right inputs, but if your cells are in danger mode, chronically stressed or inflamed, they can't absorb or use those nutrients properly. If you're finally ready to heal, go to mybloodwork.com, you'll get an at home cellular blood work panel shipped straight to your home and reviewed on a private call with one of my senior health advisors at the Health Institute. And this will help you finally connect the dots between your symptoms at the cellular level. Level, we'll also determine if you're a good candidate for one of our cellular healing protocols so you can finally experience lasting healing once again. Go to mybloodwork.com to check it out. You know, something I learned as I've when I was studying nutrients, is that choline used to be called vitamin B4, but it's essential. And it's part of that, you know, part of that larger methylation pathway that's really critical for detoxification and for creating glutathione. And blood just, it's critical for a lot. And one other thing I just want to mention is that a lot of people probably aren't familiar with phospholipids, especially phospholipids like phosphatidylcholine. And these are typically found, it's found in the highest levels, I believe, in like caviar, like fish eggs. It's found in egg yolks, it's found in organ meats like liver. These are things in our modern world that almost nobody is getting in Their diet. And it's also probably the most critical thing for healing your cell membrane. So when we're talking about cellular medicine and health, you know, you want some good, healthy fatty acids, but also those phospholipids. And that allows more oxygen and nutrients to get in and out of the cell. So that's gonna. I mean, that's gonna help with a number of things.
- [40:23]
A
So I mentioned that if I was on a desert island and I could only have a couple things dropped in one's liposomal glutathione, the other one is phosphatidylcholine. Because I just. I know I personally can feel a difference in my body when I'm taking it regularly. My brain works better. Everything just works better.
- [40:40]
B
I do about a tablespoon. So I have this glass bottle, and I was doing it this morning, and
- [40:46]
A
it's cream waves.
- [40:47]
B
And I also, you know what its counterpart, phosphatidylserine, I really like for sleep. And so sleep, I'll do things like glycine, magnesium, glycinate, and. And phosphatidylserine. But yeah, the phospholipids, I think we're gonna see those growing in popularity because they are really, really powerful for. You know, the first time I got turned onto those compounds was when my mom had cancer. And I was studying and reading all of the science behind how do you heal your cells? And I got turned on to Joanna Budwig, who created the Budwig protocol as a cancer protocol. And she believed that the cause of cancer was lack of oxygen getting in and out of the cell. And so she created this recipe with flax meal, flax oil, and Quark, which is a type of fermented raw dairy product, and all those essential fatty acids with the flax and what that did. But again, it got turned onto sort of one of the greatest ways to repair the cell there and support that oxygen exchanges.
- [41:44]
A
The phospholipids and all the chemical messengers in our bodies work better because our receptors are handling everything better. I mean, there's just so many benefits. And for people that are just interested in longevity, it should just be part of our. Like our checkup. There is a lab now, the nerdy part of me. The Prodrome Sciences has a lab that you can start to check some of those. It's a. It's still an evolving science. So it's. Yeah, I mean, you can straightforward like, what's your level of selenium?
- [42:15]
B
Yeah, rarely people test for this, but. But actually, even Quest now has. Because We've ran it on patients. You can do phospholipid panels. And I will say this, I mean, it's like, you know, like doing a CBC or cmp. It's just not that expensive. Test testing for phospholipids, I think we're gonna see the prices come down on some of these over time.
- [42:35]
A
But especially for people with any neurological illness, Parkinson's, dementia, that kind of thing, I think it's really, really helpful to take a look at those things.
- [42:43]
B
Yeah. You mentioned the word longevity. This has become a personal passion of mine. And part of it was due to. I had a sp about three years ago. I didn't walk for a year. And honestly it was the first time in my life where I thought, you know what, like, I need to think about even more about my future. And one, I needed to heal myself. And a big part of it was learning everything I could about cellular regeneration, reversing irreversible conditions. And so I spent a lot of time studying, studying this. But part of that was here's what I basically was my conclusion of all the research I'd did. If I want to heal my body, the greatest thing I can do is focus on actually cellular regeneration and promoting longevity is actually a way of healing chronic conditions. And so I would love to hear your take on just the whole longevity space today. What do you think the future is? What do you think the things are? Here's the question. What do you think the things are that people are doing now that are working? That's gonna be the future of longevity medicine. And are there any, any things or trends around it that you think is really probably not a good long term longevity play.
- [43:57]
A
So I think the thing that a lot of people are really missing in this longevity space is what you and I focus on, which is having a really great foundation. They're looking for, what's the pill? Can we take rapamycin or can we take them or whatever? And they're not laying a really solid foundation. It drives me crazy because they're, it drives me crazy. Like they're end up and by saying, oh yeah, this is going to help you. They're, they're, I think they're really doing people a disservice.
- [44:23]
B
Like I'll give you an example. This, this is going to be fairly controversial, but I remember reading Peter T. Wrote a book on, on longevity and there were a few things in there. I thought, this is good. VO2 max. I thought that was good. But basically there's some longevity doctors that are I mean listen, I've had certain longevity doctors pushing things like metformin for sure, Raptomycin, taking aspirin every day and maybe there is a very small subgroup where one like. But also why wouldn't you take nattokinase or turmeric or do something else that's
- [44:55]
A
probably more that work more with your own biology.
- [44:58]
B
Biology. Yeah.
- [44:59]
A
And don't have side effects. Like these drugs have pretty significant potential side effects.
- [45:03]
B
Right. Actually, I mean I went and did a, I mentioned this on a recent show I was doing that met form and depletes your body of a lot of the nutrients you need for mitochondrial health and methylation.
- [45:13]
A
I think there's a lot of, just the way that longevity is being thought of to me doesn't make sense. A lot of what's, what's happening. So first if people will do this work and really lay a great foundation. And then I got my 95 year old mom right where she's the living example of that for me. She's really done everything that I've asked her to do. She's got a really healthy diet, she's takes the key supplements that I think are great. She works out almost every day. You know, she gets her 3,000, 5,000 steps in and goes to the gym for 20 minutes and uses the oil of Olay on her face so she looks like she's 70 instead of 90. And it's so much the attitude. Like I remember going to see her shortly after my, my stepfather died about a year ago and we were all still just really in this deep place of mourning. And I got to her place and she said to me, I felt so bad today. I just made myself go to the gym so you could see the mindset. And then she'd cook her greens for breakfast and make sure she was getting adequate protein. And so I really want people to be focusing on those things. And then yes, I love things like stem cells. Like I feel like when they're not injected in your spine that they can be super, super helpful.
- [46:40]
B
And I'm so, so I just Monday went and got stem cell therapy, got an IV and I mean I think stem cells are the absolute future. The number one thing for longevity medicine. Now let me say this as well though, let me just say this. I don't think it's the number one thing. I think it's the number one therapy in terms of something that's advanced medicine for it, you know. You know one of the things I think about a lot of times when I think about longevity Is, I think, why in America today? Why aren't we looking more to Asia and what they're doing over there? To live a long time. I remember going on a trip to Asia, mission trip, years ago. And one thing they would do there is, like, around lunch, people would eat lunch as a community. Nobody was rushing. And then they would go out and do the city I was in. It wasn't every city, but this one small city. Literally, it's like the entire town flooded out and started doing tai chi. And it was pretty amazing. But these were people in their 70s, people over 100 years old out there doing that. There was a very different lifestyle there. And I would say it was the single biggest thing. Well, there's two things. One, they were not rushing, and the other thing was it was very, very like their meals were just clean and easy. There was no fast food restaurants. It was just. It was. I mean, so there was a big difference there in cortisol and insulin, probably, and community.
- [47:57]
A
Like, they're doing the tai chi together, they're eating together. I'm a huge fan of tai chi and qigong. I learned several different forms. I just don't have a practice right now. Writing the book really got me off my practice. But you're inspiring me to get back because I do think that presence that you have in your body and the movements, it reconnects you to yourself and also is that signal to your brain to go into the restorative state rather than let's move the tribe state. So. So I love that you brought that in.
- [48:29]
B
Yeah. I mean, the fastest way to get your body out of sympathetic state is to breathe properly or to do a breathing practice. And this was practiced all the way. Qigong, I mean, Chinese medicine is probably about 4,000 years old. And so qigong is a way of doing certain movements while doing very specific breathing patterns that kind of reset your nervous system, gets you out of fight or flight state, and also builds your lung energy, I mean, in your ATP, your cellular energy. I mean, it's incredibly powerful. And.
- [48:58]
A
But this is studies on it for, like, helping with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and all kinds of things that like.
- [49:04]
B
Yeah.
- [49:05]
A
So I have a chemical engineering degree, a master's degree in engineering, and an md. Right. So I've done a ton of. One of the hardest things that I ever did, like, I could just feel my brain rewiring, was to learn Tai Chi.
- [49:18]
B
Yeah.
- [49:18]
A
Oh, my gosh, it was so hard.
- [49:20]
B
Yeah.
- [49:21]
A
But then once you learn it and you get that body memory, it's like, you just start doing it and your body instantly starts to go into that relaxed state. And I love the data that's coming out behind it.
- [49:32]
B
Yeah, I think we're gonna see more and more there. I was gonna mention this too. You know, I think breathing is very good. Humming is also very good. You know, a lot of the ancient religious practices, both in the Christian faith and the Buddhist faith, specifically those two, you'll see there's a lot of humming. In fact, monks, Catholic monks, would do specific humming and rhythms in order to honor God and as part of their prayer. And so, I mean, if people go and research this and you can even look this up on AI or Google or somewhere, but go back and look at monks, humming, chanting, things like that. And specifically, you could look at both the Christian or Catholic. And also, again, it's prominent in Buddhism as well. But again, it's getting your. Think about this. If you are trying to pray and connect with God, does it seem like it would be easier when you're in a fight or flight state and your mind is racing, or when you're in a state of just serenity and peace and calmness? And so it's something they would do is like they would hum, it would help get them more and they believed a state of a better state of mind. For prayer.
- [50:39]
A
One of my favorite forms of meditation has been something called centering prayer. It's sitting in silence with God and just being silent. And then every time your mind starts going just to come back to the presence with him, it's really, really such an easy but beautiful meditation. And then can take a lot of practice.
- [50:57]
B
Yeah, there was a monk, and there's a Christian monk, and he was speaking and he said, most people when they pray, pray and talk, they're talking to God 90% and then listening for 10 or less. And really it's like 99 to 1. But he was being generous in 90 to 10. And I'm guilty of this as much as anybody. But he said he's like. But know, I found that the best ratio is like you know, 10 to 90, you know, listening to God 90%, sitting there in stillness. And it sort of goes back to what you talked about with fertility today. I think one of the greatest things making us ill today is a state of busyness. And I tell my patients this all the time. I was sitting down with a woman who had thyroid issues and major hormonal imbalances this week, and I said, tell me if this is your schedule. Schedule from the moment you wake up, probably around 6am to the moment you crash around 10pm you have something going on every second of the day. And this is happening Monday through Friday, most of the day, Saturday, even part of the day into Sunday. Does that describe your life? She's like, oh yes. I'm like, you have to have some margin, some time for you to go on a date night, lunch with a best friend, read a book. I'm like, you know, so it's, that is one of the greatest drivers of illness today is being in this fight or flight state and raising cortisol, staying elevated all day.
- [52:17]
A
Well, and I think it's becoming just such the normal state. People don't even realize that they're in it, right? They're in it, their friends are in it, their family's in it. And so to even have the people in their lives that encourage that true rest and relaxation and a lot of us, me included, I end up using technology to help me refine that state again. So there are neurofeedback devices, there's vagus nerve stimulators. If you're in a time of your life where you have little kids and you don't get that, you can't even find the five minutes to do much more than use a neurofeedback device or a vagus nerve stimulator, it can help.
- [52:56]
B
But I started using a neuropod recently and so what I'm trying to, as a parent, it's tough, it's tough. Chelsea and I were talking about this recently. We're like, especially different ages need different things, but we're trying to get in this rhythm of. Here's what I found for myself. Yourself. Once we have dinner, it's typically, I don't know, 5, 30. Once we have dinner, I cannot keep working. Like it's, it's my, like that for me is the single thing. Honestly, I can work most of the day, but if I keep working after, like even, even tech do anything, I don't sleep as well. I start waking up at 3:00am I just, it, it really negatively affects me. If I can just stop working after dinner and not look at my phone again, essentially, I'm honestly pretty good to go.
- [53:42]
A
You're giving your family the grace greatest gift because what they've, what these little kids really want and what your wife really wants is your pure presence with you. And so giving yourself permission to do that. It's so beautiful.
- [53:56]
B
I want to, I want to talk a little bit more about longevity because this is something you really focus on with patients and Honestly, I have. My practice is actually called the Longevity Clinic. Okay. And the reason I called it that was even if somebody comes in like we have, I have multiple patients right now with cancer, people with infertility, people with a lot of people with really serious issues. I still, even when they're at their worst, I still want them focusing on longevity. I want them focusing on the future, getting healthy. Well, I think about this with my mom. Even when my mom had cancer, I was having her think about what she was going to be doing in her 80s and 90s with her grandkids. And I know you think about the same way as well because I've seen your side, I've seen you speak week. You're helping people of all ages, but also think about longevity. So when you think about longevity, we talked about sort of building the foundation and some of that you talked about stem cells. Are there any therapies or supplements or things in particular you think these are also really, really beneficial when it comes to supporting longevity.
- [54:56]
A
I want to tell a quick story, please.
- [54:59]
B
Yeah.
- [54:59]
A
And then I'll come back to the question. So I had this 88 year old woman, woman that I'd seen her grandson and her and her son and they really wanted her to come in. So she's 88 and the first time she's sitting there, she's like, yeah, I'm having trouble following the conversations at dinner. I'm not winning at bridge anymore. I'm. I can't get down on the floor and pick things up. I'm so achy in my body. Like she was like ready to kind of give up. She's ready to call it. And I just saw her back. She's now 92. I hadn't seen her in a year. She's like, yeah, I'm winning at bridge and no pain in my body and I've got all the energy to do everything I want to do and I accidentally dropped something. She picked it up quicker than I could. I could. So the message with that is even for people that aren't feeling well, your example exactly. Like, let's shoot towards the 92 year old feeling great because our bodies are so remarkable, they can so much, much heal. So, you know, she was not on the right diet for her. She was creating a lot of inflammation, eating way too much sugar. She was depleted in some nutrients, her microbiome was off and she had some toxic exposure. So, you know, we worked on a lot of things and she was highly motivated because she had seen what had happened with her son and her grandson. So she really wanted to put the work in. And then just thinking about especially tying in fertility. Like, we know that people who have issues with fertility, both the men and the women, their trajectory for their health, they're at just greater risk for all the complicating chronic illnesses.
- [56:42]
B
What are your point? Low testosterone in men, and I know this for fact is a major mortality risk long term takes, I mean, maybe a lot of years off your life. So, yeah, so what?
- [56:51]
A
We, instead of just putting men that haven't had their children yet onto testosterone, we need to be asking why.
- [56:56]
B
That's right.
- [56:57]
A
Because we're affecting their fertility by just jumping the root cause analysis.
- [57:02]
B
It still blows my mind. It's like if you have a man with low fertility, I mean, the studies show, so you got to get vitamin D, you got to get zinc, you got to do boron, take some herbs, lift weights, eat more pro. I mean, you know, but. And get to the root. There's more beyond that, but it's super.
- [57:17]
A
Men. I actually really love to use the sperm analysis. There's a company called Sperm QT that cannot just look at the traditional sperm testing, but they could look at the epigenetics. Like, how are those genes getting influenced in the sperm sample? And so we can get a sense of what's really going on in the men epigenetically a lot easier than the women. And what's really fun is that we can see, oh, gosh, there's problems, your count is down or your epigenetics aren't good, and we can see a total turnaround. So we can actually start to use that as a marker for longevity for men. But then if we think about this testicular function and ovarian function as being a marker for longevity, one of the key things for both of those organ systems, as well as our brain and our heart, is to feed our mitochondria. So I love all the research on NAD and CoQ10, and I love a specific form of CoQ10 called MitoQ. All the B vitamins, the carnitine and the phospholipids, a lot of these things that we've talked about, I think those are absolutely foundational for longevity. If our mitochondria are working well, a lot of our systems are going to be working so much better.
- [58:31]
B
I'm so glad you said this, because I think this is something I think about a lot and speak on a lot, is that the mitochondria, these engines of ourselves, if you don't have cellular energy, your Body can't do anything. I mean, it's literally the batteries of your body. And so if that battery's low, hormones are off, every organ is off. And so if you can go and start fixing and improving the health of your mitochondria. I agree. It's probably one of the greatest things to focus on for longevity there is. And of course, NAD plus is important, whether it's NMN or NR or. Or Niagen. I mean, these are things that are wonderful. Eating pomegranates, right? I mean, there's a lot of great things people can do in order to support that.
- [59:09]
A
It's so fun.
- [59:10]
B
It is.
- [59:12]
A
There's so many incredible researchers that are giving us bits of information that when we put them all together, that's how things like my book come about. Right. It's like if we just look at one thing at a time, it's hard to get a plan together. But if you can see that the picture and see the remarkable shifts that happen in human health from applying these things, it's just. It just really gives us hope so that we can not be afraid, you know, especially one example would be like, for people that know they have an APOE4 gene. So most people with dementia with Alzheimer's have an APOE4 gene.
- [59:52]
B
Yeah, but.
- [59:53]
A
But most people with APOE4 genes don't get dementia. So we know it's an environmental factor. So that example alone can be inspiring us, regardless of what our genes are, that we look for those epigenetic factors that help our genes behave, do their best jobs, and provide the environment for that in our bodies.
- [60:15]
B
I love it. Well, Dr. Ann, thanks so much for coming on today. This was such a wonderful conversation. I want to encourage Everybody. Check out Dr. Ann's book. It's called the Preconception Revolution. It's on Amazon, it's in bookstores nationwide. I know that it is a book that's really gonna help if you're a person looking to conceive at any age, whether you're a woman or a man. This is a great book where she really dives deep into. Here is how to truly support conception with the right nutrients, with the right diet, with the right lifestyle, with the right holistic treatments, and she goes through how to do it all naturally. So I wanna encourage you to get the book the Preconception revolution here by Dr. Ann Shippy. Dr. Ann, thanks so much for coming. Really appreciate it.
- [60:58]
A
It's been a great conversation. I so enjoyed talking with you.
- [61:01]
B
Same.
- [61:01]
A
Well, thanks for having me.
- [61:02]
B
Well, I always love talking to people that have your depth of knowledge and wisdom and just expertise in practicing functional medicine for over 20 years now. So thanks so much. I wanna say thanks everybody for watching and tuning in here to the Dr. Josh Axe show, where each and every week we're diving deep into the science and the principles of how you can heal physically, mentally, spiritually and take your health and your life to the next level. Also, don't forget to subscribe. That way you don't miss a thing. Incredible interviews like we had with Dr. Ann Shippy. And also thanks for sharing. You know, there are actually right now millions of people that are struggling with infertility and don't know about longevity and how to truly heal their bodies. And so think about it. Is there someone you know who is needs to know more about or maybe they've asked questions or you just know they want to support their own fertility. Think about that person, maybe text them this episode, share it with them. Thank you all of you for being on mission with us and I can't wait to see you on the next episode.