← The Dr. Josh Axe Show
The Dr. Josh Axe Show
What Your Tongue Says About Your Health (Lyme, Mold, Candida, & More)
01:20:00
If you’ve been told your labs are “normal” but you know something is wrong, this episode is for you.
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I walked through the nest of ticks. When I got out and went up to the house, I literally thought there was dirt on my legs. Looked like dirt all over my legs. I started trying to, you know, buff it off. And it was ticks. It was C ticks.
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A
And now you're back to 100%.
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B
100%.
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A
One of the ways that I know you and I diagnose people is via tongue diagnosis, right? So the ancient way of diagnosing people in Chinese medicine was to look at their tongue. When somebody has Candida, how does that present on the tongue, the back of.
- [00:58]
B
The tongue and the grooves in the back tongue usually mean bladder kidney. So that means you have yeast in the bladder kidney. If it's towards the middle and it goes maybe towards the tip, that's more of your large intestine. So if you have a white coating and you can see it's like yellow or an opaque white, you definitely have yeast.
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A
The average doctor visit today is seven minutes. There is no way a doctor could see somebody one time for seven minutes and put together an entire protocol to help them completely heal. And that's where our entire medical system is so broken today, because it's all about money and it's all about how quickly we can get people through. It's not about full and complete healing. And we know this because there's almost never a time where a medication actually heals somebody. It just changes their symptom.
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B
Yes.
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A
If you've been dealing with a mystery illness where you're just not sure what the root cause is, maybe it's brain fog or thinning hair or weight gain or metabolic issues or hormone issues like hypothyroidism or infertility, and you're wondering, what is the root cause of this? Well, we're going to answer those questions today. Today, I've brought in one of the world's leading experts in Natural Medicine. It's Dr. Christopher Motley. And Dr. Motley has spent his entire career helping people heal unhealable conditions and he's an expert, particularly in infectious diseases. In fact, there is an unseen epidemic today of people struggling with stealth pathogens and infections, everything from Lyme to mold to parasites to long Covid, that are causing people to suffer. And oftentimes, people are being diagnosed with other conditions, like hypothyroidism, like ms, an autoimmune disease, believing that it's that issue, when in fact it's actually a microbe, a pathogen, like a virus that has infected their body and so they can't heal. And so today, we're going to be diving into how to truly heal and get rid of everything from parasites to Lyme disease to long Covid and so much more. Dr. Kress, welcome the show.
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B
Thank you, my friend. I appreciate it. So grateful to be here. My man. This is, like, always a privilege to always talk with you, like, you're one of my closest friends, and I just love being able to talk with you. Thank you so much.
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A
Well, I, you know, Dr. Chris here is. He's one of my best friends. And so we spent a lot of time together talking about natural medicine and also just giving each other a hard time and learning a lot from each other. I mean, I've learned so much from. From you over the years about. About Chinese medicine and natural medicine and especially about how to help heal patients from chronic infections. And you got a pretty powerful story where I know you were suffering greatly from a chronic illness and you couldn't figure out what it was, but finally you figured it out and were able to heal yourself. Tell me just a little bit about that.
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B
And when I was younger, as a teenager, I went through and walked through a nest of ticks, and they were a nest of ticks. I was trying to find a small puppy that I had. It was lost. I didn't know where it was at. I walked through the nest of ticks, and when I was. When I got out and went up to the house, I literally thought there was dirt on my legs. Looked like dirt all over my legs. I started trying to, you know, buff it off, and it was ticks. It was c. Ticks. And there was about. I counted. I just was like, what is this? These little insects. Didn't know what it was. 60 of them and about 30 of them had been attached. So I took some of this Avon skin so soft thing, started trying to scrape it off. My dad said, just scrape them off. After that, I started getting the crawling sensation up and down my legs. After that was around 13 to 14. And then I started to feel I had Insomnia, I couldn't go to sleep. I tell my dad. I was like, dad, I can't go to sleep. I am staying up all night. And it would be so frustrating. Two hours of sleep at night trying to play basketball. And I used to be to jump pretty well was pretty fast, got slower, uncoordinated, and I didn't know what was going on. And then I started getting night terrors. I started having these weird dreams. And this kept going. I started getting sweaty hands, sweaty feet. I would get chronic fatigue. But I didn't notice chronic fatigue when I was younger. You don't know anything. You're just like, well, I'd eat more sugar. I go to college, go to undergrad. I started noticing that I was pretty bright in my head. Like I could think quicker, but I was just not retaining anything. And I felt like it kind of got compressed, like suppressed. I mean, and so I wasn't feeling as much of the symptoms. And when I went through grad, went to chiropractic school, and then when I got out, the symptoms really started to happen. And I started having migraines, vision issues. And then one time I was working on a patient, and then I almost passed out. And. And that happened almost twice on the same patient. So then the cascade of the symptoms started happening really badly. Like I started having literally flashing lights, migraines. And I would have these weird feelings in my ears, like I could not hear very well. Like I would. It'd be muffled, like you talking to me. I couldn't hear. Then my joint started hurting. And then I started having aching in my digestion. So I started having all these symptoms. I started getting some testing done, and most of people were saying, well, you just have adrenal stress and you have just chronic fatigue syndrome. One person told me I had fibromyalgia. And, you know, you're trying to get as many answers us being in natural medicine. One of my friends up in Wisconsin, Dr. Lindsley, is. He had Lyme disease very badly. When he saw me at a conference, he says, chris, you look very pale. You look gray. He says, I've never seen you like this. And he was pretty concerned. He come to the clinic, I flew up there and he did some testing on me. He said, hey, I think you have a really bad case of Babesia, which is a co infection of Lyme. And that from that moment on, he told me all the symptoms, which I just talked about, and it started to make sense. And then he started me on a cascade of herbs. And when I Started taking the herbs, he started flushing everything out. And from that moment on, I started having these least some strength coming back, I can tell you, is debilitating. When I was at practice, I almost quit practice after about. From 32 to 33 years of age, and to the point where I could stand very strongly near my patients, and I was leaning over them all the time. And for people out there, when you have a hidden infection, that unseen thing, it was very defeating when I didn't know what was going on. It was very, very hard, brother. That was.
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Well, I mean, there are so many people that. And now you're back to 100%.
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100%.
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A
Yeah. There are so many people today that are struggling with health issues, and they don't know what it is. And maybe they've been to a doctor and they've said, hey, you have a thyroid issue or you have an adrenal issue or, hey, it's your blood sugar. But people don't realize how common infections are. I mean, I know you and I were recently doing some research together in studying all of these different pathogens, and Candida is an example of one. The amount of, I want to say it's 80% of people will have some sort of at least overgrowth of Candida in their lifetime. And women, this is much more common.
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Yes.
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A
And when people have Candida, there's a lot of issues around that. Talk to me about. Probably that's one of the most common issues a lot of people have today are Candida infections. And how does somebody know if they have Candida?
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B
Candida probably plagues almost every patient that I see in the office. And one thing that Candida does, even though it can overgrow and get fed by sugars and especially refined starches. So we have starches like corn starch, soy starch, any type of starches, potato starches that were in our diet will feed that yeast overgrowth. Yes. It goes with women mostly, and it's presented with people having UTIs or having chronic bladder infections. So when you're young, a lot of times a little girl will have a bladder or kidney infection. They think, well, we'll give her some antibiotics and it'll get rid of it. But what I have seen, though, is those kidney and bladder infections have quite, quite a bit of yeast involvement. And if you do blood work on them or urinalysis, they will have the yeast toxin die off. And so when you see an individual that has it, one of the biggest signs are smelly armpits, very pungent odor on the Feet, a scalp that has thickened skin on the scalp. Sometimes you'll scratch. A kid will scratch his head and has almost like dandruff. It's almost like they call back in the day where they call it cradle cap. And it has a very thickening of the scalp. That's because the kidneys and the Candida get in the bladder, which is bladder meridian around the head. Those are small signs and signals and it infects most people because Candida is in our joints. It's in certain organs to help clean up. And what we don't realize is Candida does help. It's like garbage men, they do go in there and clean some things out. Yeah, it's just we feed them with the starches. And the hardest part is there's substance called like acetaldehyde, which is just formaldehyde breakdown. And that means if you have a dumbed down nervous system, as in you can't process quickly, you feel foggy headed, foggy brain. If you ever feel achy joints or very weak muscles and you've had UTIs or kidney bladder infections, always, always yeast most of the time. And kids have it too.
- [09:38]
A
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I think, I mean, the number of people that have some level of just not being able to think really crisp and clear. Yeah, that's. It's so many people today. And one of the ways that I know you and I diagnose people is via tongue diagnosis. Right. And so the ancient way of diagnosing people in Chinese medicine was to look at their tongue. And it's pretty amazing. I mean, I did this. I was recently on the George Janko show and I was. I mean, I do this on many shows I'm on or I have recently or I don't, I don't intend to do it. I just talk about it and then people are like, look at my tongue. You know, I mean, that's one of the first things they do. But walk me through, when somebody has Candida, how does that present on the tongue?
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B
Usually it's a very light white coating on the tongue. And so if you open up your mouth in the morning, especially because the fungus and the candida, which is a fungus, is festering, it will eat the sugars in some of the proteins you ate the day before. So it gets trapped in the mouth. So we have a nice white coating. So if you open up and there's white on the back of the tongue, which usually means this, the back of the tongue and the grooves in the back. Tongue usually mean bladder, kidney. So that means you have yeast in the bladder, kidney. If it's towards the middle and it goes maybe towards the tip, that's more of your large intestine. So if you have a white coating and you can see it's like yellow or an opaque white, you definitely have yeast.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And there are so many people that have it sitting. And I think in Chinese medicine, it's what you said. But so I think it goes kidney, bladder, large intestine. And then even if it's more towards the front, I think there's also even the stump. I mean, it can creep up, like, into this small intestine with people with sibo. So you kind of can see that in that meridian. And how many of you. I want you to do this. Go and look in the mirror. Stick out your tongue. Is there a white coating there? Okay. Because it should be pink. Your tongue should be a bright, vibrant pink. Just completely smooth edges. Smooth on top. Does it look like that? Because if not and you have a coating sitting on top, then that's Candida. And so you really want to be careful in your diet of eliminating the excess sugar, eliminating some of the things that break down into sugar quickly. As Dr. Chris mentioned, the starches, the white bread, the white flour products, all those things are going to feed it. And when you're having some joint pain and discomfort, and we see this a lot, if people have joint pain and discomfort, in Chinese medicine, it's called dampness, which essentially means either Candida or some other microbes are overgrowing in the system. We see this a lot. One of the conditions that I know that you and I both care for people the most with is hypothyroidism.
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Yes.
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How often do you have people and predominantly women coming to see you and they think they have hypothyroidism, or they think it's maybe just because of genetics or exhaustion, but really there is a microbe of some sort of pathogen that is at least partly in play or completely in play that's actually causing their thyroid issues.
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B
I will say that most individuals that come in with the hypothyroid, if they already have it on paper from their blood work and their hormone testing, I would say almost every single one of them has a microbe, especially viral infection, that's already in the thyroid. If you go ahead and give them a viral check, they will usually have Epstein Barr virus or cytomegalovirus and coxsackievirus, which is known as hand, foot, mouth. And so what happens is the lady will come in and they will have all the signs like the loosening of the hair, losing the one third of the outside eyebrow, all the, all the factors. And if you get them checked, I would say almost 100% of them have some form of a herpetic virus like the Epstein Barr Cytomegalo. And what they will tell me usually is they'll say document. When I was younger, I remember I got strep. So this is the kicker. They'll get strep. Usually like I had strep throat mono. But they didn't get checked for Epstein Barr virus. And if they did, the doctor would say, oh, it's just a virus. You're always going to have it. You're never going to get rid of it. You just got to deal with it. And I mean, all of the patients say that, that this is what the doctor told them. And when we check, they'll have like, if you have above a level of 100 for the, basically the antibodies for Epstein Barr virus, for example, there's people that come in over 600 and 700 and they've been living like that for 40 or 50 years. And when I have had patients that have gone to functional medicine, doctors that are like straight allopathic and thankfully, some of them have really looked into the Epstein Barr and val made a validity of what I was telling. Like you have Epstein Barr. Every single one of them, once they start taking stuff to kill the viral, all their basic Hashimoto's levels go down. Literally. I've had many of my patients go near zero on some of their Hashimoto's antibodies. And I'm not patting myself onto that, brother. I'm saying it was a hidden microbe, it was a virus.
- [14:28]
A
Well, listen, we know based on studies that so many people with autoimmune disease, it kicked off for them after a viral infection or some type of infection. So we know that's even in the literature. One other thing I want to mention with hypothyroidism is there are drugs that are greatly going to make you become more susceptible to the overgrowth of Candida and of viruses, two of those being antibiotics and contraceptive drugs. Yes, you know, contraceptive drugs because they're increasing estrogen, tricking your body into thinking it's pregnant. For women, estrogen, when it goes up, that causes microbes to go up. It's almost like a fertilizer for it.
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B
Yes.
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And so when that happens, when you get on birth control, I mean, I've had so many patients over the years where when they were getting off birth control, especially major yeast issues. Major. Have you seen the same thing?
- [15:23]
B
Totally. Whenever they have finally said, I'm not going to do it anymore, they will come in and literally they'll have breakouts.
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A
And they literally have acne.
- [15:33]
B
Yeast will come and they'll say, doc, my ears itch. I'm breaking out. I'm even having rashes and breakouts around my pelvis, around my ovaries, and they don't know what's going on. And when the yeast is overgrown from that hormone, basically therapy, it does take time to get the antibiotics or the birth control out of the system. And that's the hard part, is that you have to start flushing them out. And if you can get the yeast cleansed out by using some herbs like the skull cap, if you start flushing them out, you'll start seeing that the rashes go away, the acne starts to go away. But I've seen that very, very much. Even with hormone replacement therapies, I had to be very, very careful with the yeast.
- [16:11]
A
That's a great example, too. Yeah, hormone replacement therapy, you know, that's. That's. It's estrogen, predominantly. Sometimes progesterone's added as well. That's going to impact the body there. I mean, it's a great point. It's a great point. What are some of your favorite herbs for Candida? You mentioned skullcap, and I know that's also used up for a number of other conditions as well, but give me your top three that you like to use for candida.
- [16:34]
B
Good point. Skullcaps, One of my number ones, which is scutellaria, and then malia, which is neem. That's my second one. And I do like to use mushrooms. People think it's a fungal that you. I said no. Reishi. Reishi is so good for me personally. So I'll use. Those are my top three. So reishi mushroom, like skullcap and neem, and you can use a combo of them, but I have seen them reduce yeast levels tremendously using those three.
- [16:57]
A
Yeah, those are great herbs. And skull. And by the way, these are herbs maybe you haven't heard of.
- [17:01]
B
Yeah.
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A
But they're used widely around the world. I mean, skullcap is one of the most used herbs in all of Chinese medicine. Neem is one of the most used herbs in all of Ayurvedic medicine. And so these are herbs that have loads of benefits. Of course, reishi, that's used as well in a lot of ways. I think those are great recommendations. There are some more modern Functional medicine. Compounds that I know people use today, like caprylic acid, another Ayurvedic one, bayberry, which is what berberine. People will use that I know for Candida, too, because that's going to balance that blood sugar as well. So there's benefits there. But those are great. I mean, those are great. And that's a key thing you want to do if you have Candida. Limit your starches, limit your sugars. You really want to focus on doing more protein, more fiber, lots of berries and things that are sour. Flushing those kidneys out, like cranberry is really good for people there, too.
- [17:53]
B
And I think that's a great point. Like the cranberry, I sometimes will give them cranberry a D mannose, sometimes the Uva Ursa we talked about, especially if.
- [18:01]
A
They'Ve had UTIs, of course.
- [18:03]
B
Like, when you clean that out, it gets the tubes and the actual kidneys flushed out.
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A
And.
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B
And one of the hardest. I love how you talked about caprylic acid. One of the things I recommend to the patients when they start to flush the kidneys or the whole body of yeast, and they had the breakouts, remember, change your diet, change your food, and then try to do it slow and gently. Because the one big thing that I've seen is when patients will kill off yeast quickly, they'll pop open, they can put in a lot of toxins in your blood. So be very mindful when you do it, because it can make you feel a little loopy. It could make you feel a little crazy sometimes. So always be mindful of that. So if you're already feeling that way, you could have an overgrowth of yeast.
- [18:38]
A
Yeah. One other thing I want to mention is sometimes when women have. I've had this happen so often when they've had a health issue or an infection, they tend to go on a fad diet. I mean, this happens a lot. Like, I'll tell you an example here of one. I had a patient who actually was a wife of a chiropractor, and she decided she was going to do paleo and more high fat. And she was struggling with infertility for like seven, eight years a long time, couldn't get pregnant. And I came to her and said, listen. And she was kind of a little bit of a different case where she wasn't doing any carbs. And that was her problem. I mean, that was part of the problem there. She wasn't producing of gaba. There's a big issue there. Rice is actually great for that. So I basically changed her diet said, hey, because one of the things people don't realize is excess fat is dampening. According to Chinese medicine, if you do too much now, you want some, you want a little extra virgin olive oil, coconut oil, some healthy fats. But you don't want to do too much either for a lot of women, because it just, that's going to throw things off. You want just the right amount, right? Not much, not all. And we basically changed her diet. We added a little bit of sweet potato and rice and some berries, and three months later was able to get pregnant. But basically, again, the reason I just wanted to bring that up is there are so many women today that will jump on Paleo or keto or vegan or carnivore. I mean, none of those diets for them. Now listen, some of those diets can work for some people, but everybody needs to find the diet that is right for them. I mean, everyone is uniquely created. And so. And I know when you have patients come in, and I'm the same when we work with, when I work with people at the health institute, when people come in, we create diet and health plans that are really unique to their condition. So if somebody comes in with hypothyroidism, there's a very specific program for that. If somebody comes in with chronic infections or autoimmune disease or diabetes, right. There's different sort of plans and different things that work for those people. And that's one of the big problems in medicine today is that most, even in functional medicine, integrative medicine. So often when people go into a practitioner, they just say, here's one diet for everybody.
- [20:52]
B
It truly, I think one of the best examples, I had a patient just the other day that she had been fighting anxiety. And you know, personally, I'm trying to give her all the herbs, like maybe like ashwagandha or like a holy basil to help calm her down. And thankfully, I had another practitioner that is acupuncture in town that said, okay, let's go ahead and just try different, different food sources for you. And literally, like you just said with rice and gaba just did some moderate like of her diet and cut out a couple of the foods that was making an Agnes, like making her high of your amounts of glutamate. And glutamate can make you excited.
- [21:28]
A
Oh, yeah.
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B
And so he just helped include some rice, got more gaba and night and day difference, brother. Like, literally she goes, I have no more anxiety. And that's. Each person is so different. And one of the things that you and I talk about is that if, if a person is young, like I ate cereal like nobody's business when I was a kid.
- [21:50]
A
I mean, I would eat a breakfast, lunch and dinner. I mean, it was breakfast all the time.
- [21:54]
B
And when you think about a person who comes in and they, you guys out there know that if you ate, eaten those when you're young, we have to approach like they have a different biome than this person that just came in the other day. So that's our job is to find out, like you said, what is their diet, what works for them. And yeah, keto may work for this person, carnivore for this one. So you have to hit those small signs it seems like you're talking about and to give people hope. Yes. Everybody's different, individualistic.
- [22:20]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to, I want to switch gears and talk about some other conditions here and I want to talk about Lyme for a minute.
- [22:25]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [22:26]
A
And this, you know, so many people that get really chronic Lyme issues and that we diagnose with Lyme disease. Oftentimes it's the borrelia. Right. It's that bacterial strain, however, you had Babesia.
- [22:40]
B
Yeah.
- [22:40]
A
And so that was a different strain you can get from ticks. Yes.
- [22:44]
B
Ember ec.
- [22:44]
A
Yeah. How many people do you see that come into, you know, that work with, with you that have Babesia versus Borrelia in terms of, you know, from, from, from. And by the way, I mean, tick season has been terrible this year in 10 all over the country. It's the worst I've ever seen.
- [23:00]
B
It is. And people are coming in saying, doc, I just had three ticks on my ankle. And they like, I just walked out in the yard to get my mail.
- [23:06]
A
And by the way, if you've had a tick bite, the best time to fix it is immediately, don't wait one year or two year. Because what happens is these pathogens, these infections will. First they'll get in your bloodstream, but over time, if you give them a few months especially, or even more than a couple weeks, they will migrate to organ systems and sort of set up shop. I mean, put up their tents. I mean, they'll set up a residence in those areas and then it gets harder to kill. Not that you can't do it because we've helped people do it, but it's harder.
- [23:36]
B
It is harder.
- [23:37]
A
So the earlier you can, the better.
- [23:38]
B
That's like without, with all the people that do come in that have a Lyme or they related infection, they got bit by a Tick. I would say that out of 10 people, if they got bit by a tick, I would say probably six of them have Borrelia and two or three of them have babesia and the rest have bartonella. That's what I would say. But one that always accompanies all of them is another one called Ehrlichia, which you find in dogs called ehrlichiosis. But the key is, like with babesia, the signs and symptoms, I would say if you got bit by a tick and you start having the symptoms of anemia, like you just said. Oh, yeah, if you get anemia, you probably have a Babesia overload because they're so small. They're parasites, they're not bacteria. They'll go into your red blood cells, eat up all the proteins, your hemoglobin. They won't let you attach to iron, you won't get oxygen. And then you're always going up the stairs going, man, I'm out of breath.
- [24:27]
A
Well, and here's one way you can tell, by the way, I want to mention this about blood work. So many people have these issues and they go in and they're not fully anemic, but they're iron or their ferritin, it's not in the optimal range, it's lower than it should. And you can tell by looking at your tongue. And if it's pale, okay, it should be a bright, vibrant pink. Like a really bright pink. If it's pale pink, that's called a blood deficiency in Chinese medicine. And babesia, to your point, is a major, major root cause of that.
- [24:58]
B
Yes, that's one of the first things. If they come in with a pale tongue, I first think with the signs and symptoms, I'm like, I'm going to check them for Babesia. And if you go into borrelia, actual Lyme bacteria, most of those individuals have neurological symptoms Babesia can cause. But borrelia will burrow in to your white matter, your gray matter, into your brain, your spinal cord. And so people start having neurological issues. So they'll start feeling like they have Ms. They'll start feeling like they have dysfunction within their movement or coordination. Then they'll start having frying brain feeling like they'll literally go, man, my head's on fire. So that's where you can go, that sign and symptom. And then the other one is with Bartonella. Bartonella will get into your collagen and tear apart your collagen in your skin. So people start having cat scratch fever. And then you'll see individuals they'll go, doc, I've got stretch marks on my hips, on my back, on my elbows. And these are young individuals. They, they're not gaining weight extensively very quickly, but they're having stretch marks. And some individuals, like, I haven't changed my diet. Why am I getting stretch marks? And usually you get them tested. They'll have bartonella, because bartonella goes in and tears those collagen fibers and spreads them apart really wild. They will usually have sore joints, really achy joints or muscles, and they'll have neurological symptoms. But that's my number one for bartonella.
- [26:13]
A
I mean, if somebody all of a sudden, and it comes on pretty suddenly, they're like, man, my joints just really hurt. That's not just. You're getting older. Okay. That happens really, really slowly over time. Like, okay, there's a little bit. Especially when it's all your joints. And over the course of a year, you're like, okay, last year I didn't have this. This year my joints really hurt.
- [26:33]
B
Yes.
- [26:33]
A
Those are the sort of things. When things kind of come on like that, sometimes there's a, there's a sign. And not to say some infections don't really start taking your body over slowly, but they, they can't. So. So Lyme is obviously a really big issue. So many people have Lyme disease today. What are some of your favorite herbs for treating Lyme?
- [26:52]
B
My top are going to be Japanese knotweed, cat's claw, cryptolepis. Those are like my top three. And because cat's claw is what they call the miracle vine. And so when cat's claw is anti inflammatory, it helps kill off the infection, it actually helps with viral infections. And Japanese knotweed not only has been used against Borrelia, the Lyme bacteria, it literally will help clean up some Epstein Barr virus. And you're finding that a lot of Epstein Barr virus is coinciding with Lyme, by the way.
- [27:18]
A
Kai says, I read a study, this was just yesterday. And basically it showed that if you have that there are certain, like, long Covid. This is with long Covid. Long Covid. When people got this, what it does is it actually goes into your body somehow and reactivates people that have Epstein Barr. Yes. Dormant in your body. So in part of what happens, this is why it's such an issue with so many people. Most people have multiple infections or many do. And so it's like your body is trying to fight off one thing. Well then all of a sudden, this surveillance is part of what your immune system does. The surveillance is like Whoa, there's a problem here. It takes all the attention. And all of a sudden you got upstream bar over here, like, oh, nobody's watching us anymore. Hey, you know, hey, get out of jail free car. Now we're gonna go take over and cause a problem. And so that, I mean, that happened. So many people, so many people are still suffering from long Covid, even if it's not. Like, I have somebody I'm thinking about and he's seen great improvements, but I mean, it absolutely wrecked his body. Long Covid, I mean, wrecked him. And he's a super fit, super healthy guy, but now he's probably like 80% better, but he's still not 100. And he's been dealing this for two and a half, three years and he's doing a lot of stuff. And so. But again, to my point, I think that there are a lot of people today who, again, think about it. Did you get Covid? And then afterwards, even now, today, you're still not quite 100%. Yeah, that's. It's a lot of people.
- [28:45]
B
The. I know we like to talk about Lord of the Rings and the whole idea of like the mountain of doom where the eye is watching.
- [28:51]
A
That's a.
- [28:52]
B
It's exactly what happens with surveillance. And I just. It's a great point, doc. One of my friends up in Wisconsin who does a lot of Lyme patients, he said that many of his patients are not healing from Lyme quick enough because they're finding long haul Covid in their bodies. And he says we're going to have to start cleaning up the viral component, just that their body can go back and attend to the Lyme and infections. So if you did have Covid, you do have to go and address that. And even Epstein Barr. Another one was the Coxsackie virus, the hand, foot, mouth. It's like a virus. If you had it when you're a kid, your body kind of adapts to it. And it's like with hair. Yeah, that's the hard part, is now you don't have the energy to adapt and just keep those at bay. And now they're just flushing up out of the body because of the COVID.
- [29:34]
A
I want to talk about and I want to get to long Covid, I want to get to mold and some other things and parasites. But before I do that, I want to kind of talk about sort of the philosophical or sort of the method of treatment that you use and the way you go thinking about taking care of these infections. Because one of the things that a Lot of doctors do, especially in mainstream medicine. If somebody has any bug, here's an antibiotic or an antifungal or something like that. I mean, that's the thing to do. Okay. Talk to me about why that may not work so well and what you do differently than that. Because you could have the same herbal philosophy. It's like, well, I'm not going to use a conventional antibiotic or antifungal. I'm going to use a natural antibiotic. Talk to me about sort of the philosophies of kind of that, the second one, and then maybe even a third option, maybe the way that you practice.
- [30:29]
B
Yeah. One of the key indicator problems that I have is if somebody throws like an antibiotic or an antifungal, is that the assumption is I'm going to kill off the infection so heavily and so quickly that the body somehow is able to take all the toxicity that that infection just created from popping open and going into your bloodstream and your lymph nodes, and I can flush it out. So then a person can have heavier symptoms and worse symptoms. So the first thing that people come in, I always check their drainage systems and when we talk about the colon and the kidney. So my philosophy is this. I don't just give them an herb to kill off all their infections. The first thing I do is always check if they're actually pooping and urinating and if they're sweating. Those are my three things. Because you can check, don't bore. Hope this doesn't bore you to death. But like on the elbows, we know this. There's large intestine points. On the elbows, there's kidney points that are on the legs. I test those points, and if those organs are not excreting the toxins, I do not give them a heavy antifungal or anti candida or any type of herb.
- [31:29]
A
Because if you think about this, if you're killing all this stuff off, but then your body's not able to flush it, it's going to sit in your system and cause toxicity issues. More inflammation.
- [31:37]
B
Yes.
- [31:38]
A
Yeah.
- [31:38]
B
And when they do start to unravel, and that's the first few treatments, I give them herbs to help them start to get nourished. So, like, we get their yang, sometimes their yin, just sort of nourish those balancing acts of the organ. When I know that they're having proper bowel movements every day that are not so loose, they still may have some looseness in it. And if they're urinating frequently and they're not like having Kidney pain. Then I'll start with the antimicrobials. So I start to kill off as much as I can. But I always tell them, let's do it gently. And what will happen is if we start them on one of those herbs I was talking about, and I tell them you shouldn't, not. You shouldn't feel, like, totally toxic and sick for the first two weeks, like you can't get out of bed because you're so toxic. When you start to get their body built up, the herbs stay in the blood. Stay in the blood like it revolves. It'll kill off the infections lightly and gently. You keep them going to the bathroom really well. Then I'll go after the biofilms. Because the biofilms at times will keep the person from absorbing their vitamins and the minerals. So if you're taking vines and minerals all day and you're not getting energy, those infections will create films and they won't get into your body, and your body can't use them. So then after I start killing off the infections, I start trying to flush out of those biofilms out. And that's probably my philosophy is as they start to get the biofilm out, they'll. Then I'll go, okay, can we start absorbing vitamin D or vitamin B or.
- [32:55]
A
Vitamin C and explain what biofilms are for everybody?
- [32:58]
B
Biofilms. Depending on the microbe, they will take the calcium in our body from your bones. Osteoporosis, they'll take your iron, they'll take your magnesium. Literally. These microbes will take those, absorb them, and make a plaster, like on the wall. And then they get behind the plaster.
- [33:15]
A
Basically, they create a protective shield around themselves.
- [33:19]
B
And it's, It's. It's ingenious. Like, they have that on the walls. They hide behind it. You take an antibiotic, antibiotic runs right past them. They're okay. They're fine. When you stop taking the antibiotic, they come right back out. And they say that that plaster is like the coral reefs of the sea. They say they build them up. And if you have one in your gut, you could have them in your lungs, you could have them in your brain. And they say there's a quorum, like a communication. So if you take an herb, they. They say through the actual plaster, they can send a little signal down and say, something's coming down the pipe. You gotta get ready, get behind.
- [33:52]
A
Can I just tell you, I mean, mainstream medicine today, it's so interesting because certain areas of it are so advanced, and then there's certain areas that a lot of these docs are just so uneducated. I mean, one of the issues today in mainstream medicine is that all of these doctors are essentially trained by the pharmaceutical industry. The pharmaceutical industry gives all the money to the schools and then basically they're trained on here's the drug to prescribe for this condition. And that's almost all they ever learn. I mean, of course they understand biochemistry and a number of other things that they'll never use again. But again, do they actually go and learn about biofilms and about infections hiding and how to truly diagnose between very, very difficult conditions, between an real Ms. In between Babesia and mold toxicity? I mean, they really never learn it. They don't never learn it. And that's not to say that, you know, our training was that much different because we really had to learn this ourselves as well. I mean, here's the reality. The best practitioners learned 99% of how to truly help people outside of school.
- [35:01]
B
Experience teaches us. And I think that when we talk about learning about something in excess to help the people, it's where you and I have had experience with it. And a lot of times it's personal experience, like you've gotten some sicknesses, you had to learn it to help the people.
- [35:17]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's so true. It's so true. So part of the philosophy I know, Chris, that you and I follow is that, okay, one, we need to change the internal environment. We're not just going to treat the infection itself, we're going to change the internal environment. We need to strengthen up the digestive and immune system and detoxification systems. That's one thing need to happen. We need to go and break down these walls, these protective barriers, biofilms. And we do need to kill the infection, but we also need to be able to be flushing it out the moment we kill it via having healthy bowel movements, sweating your blood, just moving enough, those sort of things and so urinating in all those different ways. So there really is a very specific protocol that needs to be followed in order to optimize healing. I had Dr. Ralzen recently and we talked about this a little bit, that one of the things we talked about was so many people today, one of the first things he does is he gets people out of the fight or flight response. Yes, because people are. When you're living in that state, your body is sending all of its blood flow and energy to the brain and to the extremities. Because think about it, if we were going to go and fight. If we had to truly, like our ancient ancestors or King David, fight a bear or a lion, you're either going to have to run or you're going to have to fight it. And you need every ounce of energy for focus. So blood going to one area of the brain and your extremities, it's not in your digestive tract, it's not in your liver, it's not in your organs. This is why people say you're either in fight or flight, or rest and digest. And it's not just rest and digest, it's just organ function and healing. Your body's either protecting itself over here or it's healing and regenerating over here. And it's not. Or somewhere in between. But you want to get in this state over here as much as you can. And so there's an element of. With some people, one of the first steps he was sharing was getting the body out of that fight or flight state.
- [37:14]
B
Yes.
- [37:14]
A
Have you seen that yourself? And what are some things that you do, if that's the case, to start to help fix that issue that he.
- [37:21]
B
Is very smart doctor. And I really like Dr. Rawls. You and I talked about it. It is probably one of the key points. You should get them out of the fight or flight. The hardest part with patients that have the hidden microbes is you and I have talked about the triple warmer. And I'm just saying in Chinese medicine, there's the gate from the kidneys. When it pulls up energy like it's your battery pack. And it can actually send energy, electric, electric energy through the three gates, which is your digestion, your reproductive, and your heart and lungs. And if you have one of those gates, those entry points, if they're locked down, you are not going to get energy to the system to actually help you heal. So that's key. You have to get them out of the fight or flight response. And when he has one of his supplements I really like, it has different forms of the ashwagandha and he actually put like basil in them, these different types of herbals that actually will actually calm down your system. Because if I'm in a hyperactive state, like you just said, and all the blood is in certain areas of my body because I'm in constant fight or flight, it's going to be a very hard time for your digestive system to cleanse out Lyme disease. It's going to be hard for your ovaries, it's going to be hard for your bladder to actually release them. And I tell my patients, and this is. Sounds pretty simple, but do you ever breathe through your stomach and they go, what? And I breathe through your stomach? Yeah.
- [38:39]
A
Diaphragmatic breathing.
- [38:40]
B
Diaphragmatic breathing. Can you get to a point where, I hate to say, you know, when you go to the restroom, you relax to where you go to the restroom, do you ever feel like you could relax your lower pelvic bowl to get to that point? In most, 100% of the patients that have Lyme disease, they'll go, no, I don't. I actually have constipation. And that would tell me that they are hyper in that state of fight or flight.
- [39:01]
A
That's true.
- [39:02]
B
And they're so afraid. And you and I know this. Like, it's sad because usually in Chinese medicine, we know the kidneys and the bladder all about fear. And most of those individuals, either they're in constant fear mode or they actually feel like they're controlled or they feel like they are always on constant worry and you will not heal.
- [39:19]
A
Well, this is one of the reasons why a lot of people can't heal and infections overtake them in the first place. Childhood trauma.
- [39:26]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [39:27]
A
And just negative thoughts and an imbalance of unhealthy emotions, you know, because what you. You and I both know in Chinese medicine, and this is. It's not just Chinese medicine, this is just a fact. Different emotions impact different organ systems and different thoughts. So if somebody had an abuse from the past, they were abused, they might be living with shame and guilt. That's going to affect the immune system. So their colon, all their microbes, their lungs are affected. If somebody is angry about the abuse they've experienced, maybe verbally, somebody was verbally, maybe they were bullied in school and they're mad about it today, that's going to cause the liver to be backed up. And that, of course, will cause constipation. So that's another part of healing, I think, that's so often overlooked when it comes to all conventional medicine and all natural medicine is actually going and healing the sort of mental and spiritual things that have happened during our lifetimes.
- [40:22]
B
I think with patients that come in and start to clean out the Lyme, when I do analysis, we do the tongue analysis, we do pulse analysis. And you're right. When I look and find, like a person comes in and that has congested liver, consistent chronic chest, congested liver. Like, their liver areas are very tender right here. The points on their tongue for the liver are very swollen and very red. This part of their spine Related liver is inflamed. The thing is, I will ask them, are you angry or are you resentful or frustrated? And 100 of them and go, yes. And there's a few that will say, well, I don't really feel angry.
- [40:55]
A
And they're suppressing it.
- [40:56]
B
They're suppressing it. You go, okay. And then you start cleaning up like that process. And they'll go, doc, you know what you said? I was angry and I had a dream the other night and I was angry and I woke up saying, oh, I'm mad at my dad. It happens all the time. And then I think that's the journey. It's like, yes, you have a physical ailment, but really it's showing you that that trauma when you're a young person was one of the key roots of holding that liver in that state, causing those infections to get there.
- [41:25]
A
And the most powerful thing that people can do, I think is kind of threefold when it comes to getting out of that fight or flight state. One is addressing that past childhood trauma. I mean, that's something again, that I don't really know very many that are going and actually doing that with patients as well. But again, think that thing of going, and maybe that's working with a counselor, maybe it's a psychologist or somebody, but it's actually going and working through. One of the great ways to do this is writing it out. Write out, hey, here's what still bothers me today. Write out your past. Just spend some time writing and journaling it out because just bring it to mind. That's kind of step one is what are those thoughts today or things that have happened in the past or recently in my lifetime that are that I'm not okay with that really bother me. And then thinking through and working with somebody else on, okay, how do I maybe I need to go and forgive people? Yes, maybe I need to be forgiven and ask for forgiveness from God. So there's a number of things there to address those things. And also what is that thing that's on replay in my mind, that memory and go in and maybe there's a lie that you believe about yourself too that's damaging your identity, your self esteem and your value. Go and replace that with a new empowering belief and find that in the Bible. I mean, that's the ultimate source of truth. And so I think that's one aspect that will allow people to get out of that fight or flight state. The other one is just healthy habits, living in tune with nature, walking outside when the sun comes up, we're supposed to be getting up. Get that cortisol, no blue light at bed, right. At least an hour before, ideally to turn off the tv, put on those orange or yellow glasses and read a book, listen to an audiobook, connect with the person in front of you, build that kind of, you know, that heart channel. And the third one is what we've been talking about. Use some of these adaptogenic herbs, use some of these calmers. I really like, as you mentioned in Ayurveda, the ashwagandha and holy basil are amazing. You know, Chinese medicine, they use a lot of reishi for this, maybe even things like schisandra lemon balm, those things that are sort of calming to the body. But yeah, I think that if somebody is going to experience and I think the thing that I know that I respect so much about you and one of the reasons I know that we've become good friends, one, I love your sense of humor too. But the other thing is I think we kind of see medicine the same way. If somebody is going to heal, they don't need one medication and they don't even need one supplement. They need an entire protocol that addresses their diet, their supplementation, their lifestyle, holistic treatments, even some things emotionally stress and sleep wise to fully heal. And I discovered this when my mom had cancer. When my mom had cancer, I said, you know what, I am going to do everything I can pouring my heart and soul into helping my mom survive. And I'm not only going to work with her on diet, I'm going to do everything. And so I said, okay, we're going to go and we're going to change her diet. Well, she did kind of a mixture of Gerson plus Chinese medicine plus some Budwig protocol. It was juice, vegetables, lots of steamed vegetables, you know, liver and salmon and some of those, lots of herbs. You know, we did a lot of turmeric, we did a lot of reishi mushroom, lots of probiotics. My mom also, we worked on her fear and worry. Like my mom started reciting Bible verses every day. Like she had 20 verses she said over and over and over again. My mom, to help reduce stress. She had a horse when she was a kid. Yeah, she went and started going to this horse farm a mile from our house, riding horses several days a week. I mean, and she went and forgave people. She did all of those things together simultaneously. And she was able to cure and completely heal of cancer when her doctor gave her almost no chance of living. And so I share that to Say, but because of our experience, because you were the very same way in order to heal your Lyme disease and your Babesia, it was, I'm going to not just take a summit, I'm going to put on a full on protocol that's going to allow me to heal. And the problem is the average doctor visit today is seven minutes. There is no way a doctor could see somebody one time for seven minutes and put together an entire protocol to help them completely heal. And that's where our entire medical system is so broken today. Because it's all about money and it's all about how quickly we can get people through. It's not about full and complete healing. And we know this because there's never been a medication. I shouldn't say this, there's almost never a time where a medication actually heals somebody. 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- [46:45]
B
As I've gotten older, and we both gotten older working with patients and one of the things that I guess time teaches us is really keep looking at that holistic area. We know we hear it all the time like we're a holistic unit. And I think more and more as I work with a patient with a hidden infection, you start cleaning it out. And to me I always find it's like uncovering. So just uncover that emotional connection and uncover that spiritual connection and, and people, in some ways they'll feel like literally disconnected from God or disconnected from their family members. And they really have held onto that for so long and I would never have gotten to that if I'd have just kept hitting the microbes and just kept killing off the infections. I would never have found that out. So talking with them and listening to those little nuances and when we do any types of conversation with our clients or patients. They'll tell you little small things like, oh, yeah, I was really angry at my mom when I was younger. And I'm like, really? And then you listen to those things and if you do that in seven minutes, I need to learn that technique because I wish I could learn that quickly. I've had patients. I know you have too. Like, I've known them for years. And finally you uncover something like emotionally or traumatic, and it finally shows through. And thankfully now, like in our realm, I don't just say, okay, we're gonna fix the Babesia and the Lyme disease. My mind is also thinking, okay, what is structural trauma you had and what is your emotions and what's your relationship with God? And, and I'm glad that now we ask those questions because it's not in the industry today.
- [48:18]
A
Yeah, I've always thought about like this, like being a physician. My goal is not to. It's so interesting. I came out of, I came. Came out of school and, and a lot of practitioners would say things like, well, if you're, whether somebody's an MD or a DC or a DO or a naturopath, whatever it is, it's like, just stay in your lane. Stay in your lane. My thought has always been very much, I will do anything I possibly can. My goal is to help somebody heal. That's my goal. And if I have to use supplements, if I have to use red light therapy, if I have to tell people to sunbathe or fast or go deeper with God, I'm going to use that to help them heal. And that's really, really the, that's really the big focus there. I know that you have worked with people in this capacity to help them understand more emotional healing. Talk to me about what are some of the conditions or issues that crop up when somebody has a issue, either mother wounds or father wounds, that relationship with their parents, and how those two type of wounds and they're different, that, that sort of, you know, male, you know, bad male relationship or bad female relationship impacts people?
- [49:25]
B
No, and the most of the, I guess I'd say like the majority, like they'll say, like even in German medicine or Germany medicine or in Chinese medicine, that the male aspect of the brain, like the, basically the left logic centers, it has to do with your internal response, how you internalize information, how you process. And that left brain connects with the right side of the body. Now I don't want to get too intel because it can get a little overwhelming, but the right Side has to do with your outward expressions, how you emotionally represent yourself. And that go with the female. And that controls the left side of your body. So you can have different sides of the body, have different symptoms. Like some individuals say, I always have problems on my right side, like my right shoulder and my right hip. And I tell them that possibly is going to be towards your father. And so then you'll look back and ask them about the father wound. And you'll ask them, did your father ever had a shoulder problem? Yes, he did. He always had a shoulder issue. Then you and I would go, okay, let me look at your tongue. And what I'll do is I'll palpate what area of the shoulder, and I'll find it's a large intestine issue. And this is how it goes with father ones. Okay, so I'll palpate. Oh, it's a large intestine meridian that's very tender and very sore. I'll then go, did your dad ever have problems with his digestive system? Oh, yeah, my dad was always constipated. He always had issues. He always had to go to the bathroom really quick. This is the kicker. Father wounds the colon has to do with your grief because it's a large intestine grief, but it has all to do with control. So this is an example. So I'll say, did your dad control your life? And they'll go, yep, he controlled my life. He controlled every aspect. He controlled the way I thought. And then you'll start saying, okay, that's held up in your colonial. And it's just initiating that DNA connection you have with your dad because he went through the same wounds, too. And when you had that father wound, I said, your shoulder is not. You could have Lyme disease in your shoulder. I guarantee it. You can have it in there. But if you don't get that colon and that emotion from that father wound out of your body, you're always going to have shoulder issue.
- [51:16]
A
And this is where I think it's so interesting. The Bible talks about people being affected, whether it's a curse or other things to the third and fourth generation. And actually, there is a study came out recently that kind of confirmed that people epigenetically are impacted for that many generations when things happen. Now, here's the good thing. You still are in control to where you can break off that generational curse or that problem. But you need to go to God, to Jesus, and say, lord, forgive me, Lord, I've got this issue. I'm holding onto this resentment towards My father, I forgive him. I forgive him completely. I pray for healing in this area. I think doing that is so, so powerful. And it's something I don't even think really the church does enough today. Really going and looking at, you know, church today for a lot of people, I think it's very, it's not what it was supposed to be. I think oftentimes it's, I'm going to go one hour a week and I'm going to go and sing and I'm going to go and learn. And I think that's great. You know, you go for an hour and, and you worship God and you, you learn some, some good lessons, life lessons. But overall, you know, I was reading the book of James here, just listening to the audiobook or audio Bible on a flight I was on just this week.
- [52:28]
B
Yeah.
- [52:29]
A
And there's a book in James or in the Bible that says if you're sick, go to the elders of your church, have them lay their hands on you and have them pray for you for healing and have them anoint your head with oil. Like that's what it says. How many people actually do that today where they go, if they're sick? They actually go to some when at the church, an elder of some sort have them do just that. I mean, I mean, I don't want to say never, but it's less than 1%. I mean it's a very, very low number, but that's what the Bible tells us to do. And so I think there are so many things we carry, so many wounds, so much hurt, so much shame, so much guilt, and we need to bring that to God if we're truly going to be. Feel truly going to be healed. And. But I think that if the church would initiate that more and do that more, it would be so, so powerful for people to experience even a higher level of healing. Because what happen, the reality is most people just, you and I both know this. Most people are just not aware. Aware of it. It's kind of like I'm trying to remember the movie. It's actually Talladega Nights with, with Will Ferrell.
- [53:28]
B
Yeah.
- [53:28]
A
And I forget his, his partner in the movie that. His racing buddy, but it's played by John O'Reilly and he's like, hey, maybe I'd like to win sometime. And then, and then Will Ferrell's essentially like, you know that feeling? He's like, I want, what I want you to do is just stuff it way deep, deep down, deep down where, you know, you never see it or we ever talk about it again, he's like, all right, you know, but in reality, that's what most people are doing today with their child. And a lot of this is generational. I think it's actually less with Gen Millennials and Gen Z, like our parents generation. Oh, it's like stuff it deep, deep down under the rug or in the closet where you never see it again. But those things fester. They create disease, and they create an environment where your body becomes sick. So you were talking about father wounds. That's connected to the immune system in Chinese medicine and German new medicine and the bowels and constipation, those issues. So if you struggle with chronic constipation, as Dr. Motley's been talking about, go and look. Do you have wounds with your father? How was the relationship there? Do you need to forgive? Do you need to just think about what he, you know, go and heal that issue. Now, the other one is mother wounds. Now, you said this. This is so interesting. It happens on the left to right side of the body. Why would a woman get breast cancer on one side or the other side?
- [54:52]
B
They would say that in the German medicine, because the activity of the breast is to lactate and produce milk for their offspring. So that when the. The overgrowth of any type of mass or tumor, this is what they would say is that it starts to grow, is because there is a signal from the brain, depending on of the brain that's initiated, saying, we need to produce milk for our offspring. We need to help them survive. So it's the motherly aspect of it. It's the mothering. Some women do not get out of that mothering aspect. They stay in that. That basically that program all their life. Now this could happen if it was on the right side, could be like the father fathering aspect of it. They didn't feel nourished or supported or cared by.
- [55:35]
A
For their.
- [55:36]
B
By their father. If it was the left side, it could be the mother did not care for them or did not show that. So they have a program like, I'm gonna take care of my kids so much better.
- [55:46]
A
Can I tell you what's so interesting? Like, my mom had breast cancer on her left side, and her relationship with her mom was terrible. My mom had an amazing relationship with her father. Amazing. But her mother, even today, actually, my grandmother's 96, about to turn 97. And I told you, we're still dealing with issues with. My grandmother has anger issues still at 97, she got in trouble. I don't want to say so it's, it's, it's. I want to honor her and she, I really, she, she was such a. So nurturing to me growing up. But with my mom, you know, there were some real, real battles, but my mom developed breast cancer on that side. I've also heard on if you have breast cancer on the right side, it's connected to the father. Part of that is also not setting up boundaries in your life.
- [56:30]
B
Oh, man. Yes.
- [56:31]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [56:31]
B
And when, when they don't have boundaries, the hardest part for they say a woman, when they do start to develop it, that the boundary's not there and they'll over care like your mom's overly care. And that's. We understand that because that's the caring aspect. But they'll say it's like the, the mother eagle finally pushing her baby out of the nest if you, if you're still a mother who cares for your family. And I love that. But they always are worried. Like, I hope even when they're adult kids, they'll just keep worrying like, I hope they're okay. It's initiating that program all the time.
- [57:01]
A
Yeah. I'll tell you another one I heard with breast cancer on the right side is not being in touch with the feminine side because may. Maybe there was an unhealthy relationship with men, you know, so there's some things. So I know some. There's different thoughts in German new medicine and Chinese medicine on some of those causes. But again, there's a reason why it's on one side and not the other. That's very connected to your emotional health and your state. And man, it's so important. I want to hit on a few other infections here as well. Talk about long Covid.
- [57:34]
B
Yeah, long Covid.
- [57:37]
A
This impacted people's body so differently than other types of respiratory infections in the past.
- [57:43]
B
Yes.
- [57:43]
A
In fact, what did you see? How was COVID 19 specifically and turning it along. Covid different as a viral infection compared to maybe the other viruses people were getting like, or their coronaviruses, colds and flus over the years.
- [57:57]
B
The biggest key for me was that when it infected the tissues of like the lungs and the heart, the biggest word comes to my mind. It's evasive. It was able to evade detection very well and to the point where there were times when it would show a present, a symptom like a heart issue or a lung issue. And even with my testing or seeing them off, they may not even show a high amount of COVID They would always say something like, it's an old Flu virus or it was an old Epstein Barr. Yes, it initiated and caused them to come up, but they weren't showing Covid. And then if the later on, later on, like maybe a year later, they'd go back and say, I have a higher amount of COVID in my body. To me, it was evasive. And that hard part was this, that when they, this is what they say in research, that when it attached to all the receptors in the lungs and heart, that they can weasel their way into the cells really deeply and they just camp out there and they're able to basically rob you of your nutrients, of course, but they're so opportunistic. And what they say they're really good at is that they're able to change our DNA. They're changing our, our cells response. So people are having these, this virus in certain tissue, not just the lung and heart, but many tissue. It's just going all over the body and it's actually changing some genetic structure. And when you say when they get weak, the hardest part is that the person is already weakened from it, hiding out this whole time. And it makes them. For me, Chinese medicine, the lung and the heart, the blood, the clean blood, the vitality of the blood. People are having thicker blood, sludgy blood. And they're saying, you know what? Literally healthy adults, our age group, they're coming to me saying, I've got worse cholesterol. Three or four months ago, I had no cholesterol problems. I'm having cholesterols in the 250, 260s. What's the matter? And they have sludgy blood. And then they're having hidden Covid well.
- [59:46]
A
And then think about the cases of myocarditis, how much more prevalent that is. Actually, I don't know if you could look this up, but there was a. My wife told me a study yesterday. She said, do you know how many young men died of myocarditis in the past, you know, five years versus how many died in the 50 years prior?
- [60:06]
B
Wow.
- [60:07]
A
It's something like more died in the past five years from these types of heart issues than they did in the 50 years prior, all due to Covid. It's so much higher.
- [60:17]
B
And what's alarming is that when they. I saw a report this week, couple doctors, I think they were near Stanford, they said that when the virus attaches to, they say an ACE receptor, the ACE receptor in your body is there to help you with angiotensin. So what happens? It'll block the receptor. It blocks receptor. You can't attract your nutrients to the receptor site to go into your cell to help you with proper angiotensin. And so they start having higher blood pressure and then they get the thick blood. It's a good recipe for disaster.
- [60:47]
A
And that's what a lot of people don't realize that that's another thing that a lot of these infections do, whether it be parasites or certain viruses, is they will go and block receptor sites of cells to where your body can't now absorb iron, zinc, magnesium. A lot of minerals are not absorbed in the body due to a lot of these chronic infections. But yeah, long Covid is one where that making that bloody sticky, making it toxic. And this is why, you know, a lot of the traditional things, they work, but not near as well. Like most of the time people would recommend maybe an echinacea or an elderberry or vitamin C for the common cold or flu. And this time it's really no. We need to be recommending things that help change the blood. I saw early on, like galangal was working very well for people. Nattokinase as another one. You know, some things to really help break up and move the blood along was really kind of the key there.
- [61:38]
B
You talked about this in one of your former podcasts and I was really interesting. You were talking about like natto nattokinase. They were talking about like a lot. Individuals with Japan were not getting the same symptoms. They ate tons of natto and they were eating tons of seaweed. And some of those individuals never got a high.
- [61:52]
A
Loads of wild fish with omega 3 is another one that's going to help with the blood there.
- [61:55]
B
And there's one Scandinavian country I can't remember also they were saying that since they had such high mackerel and had such high good fish quality and they were taking those and was making their blood smoother. They were hardly having any signs or signals of COVID issues.
- [62:08]
A
Yeah. And so. So I think for people with long Covid, it's all about healing the blood. And I also think mitochondrial health, there's really damaged mitochondria. People with long Covid will tend to have their energy really in the tank. So really going after doing some of those, you know, adaptogens that are great. I mean, I like schisandra a lot for it and rhodiola, some of those things for long Covid. What are some of the things you've done for. For patients with long covet, I usually.
- [62:31]
B
Put them on like herbals. I like to put them on sometimes a mixture of like ginkgo biloba, maybe a little ginger. Ginger's good for the blood.
- [62:37]
A
Great idea.
- [62:38]
B
Sometimes with high enzymes, so I try to get those natural, and I'm like you, I'll take a nat or one.
- [62:43]
A
Of the things I like of the papaya enzymes is it's going to help break. It's going to help, you know, get rid of the senescent cells and break up and heal the blood. That's a. That's so clean.
- [62:52]
B
And when you add in the. The serrapeptase or the LUMBER kinase, any of those, I'll put those two in there. And sometimes, like with Schisandra, that mixture of those with Schisandra has been a very good game changer for my patient. It really loosens up their blood. So they'll start to loosen up the blood, flush those old dead red blood cell particles. They're floating around because they're injured. And so they'll use body. Use papaya. The enzymes, it'll degrade them down, dissolve them. Your natural cells will eat them up, put them into your poop, basically, after a while. And then when I get that cleaned up, I'll put them on a little hawthorn, like a hawthorn berry, and it starts to give some strength to the heart, maybe some sage, get their heart stronger. And then I'll try to use antivirals so I get the blood clean, get it flowing, and I. Basic ones, olive leaf is really good. And astragalus, we love astragalus. I'll get them astragalus and olive leaf. And you put higher amounts. At least we get a higher amount of those viruses out of the way. Now, I know there's different. They use nac, they'll use different glutathione. But for me, it's building the strength of the blood really well. And then using like the olive leaf and astragalus to start really stopping the replicating of the virus and flushing them out. Those are my two big keys for that.
- [64:04]
A
That's great. Mold's another issue that I know that we've seen continue to increase over the years, especially in a lot of the Southern. It's really all over.
- [64:10]
B
It's all over.
- [64:11]
A
You know, I remember when we had the flooding in Nashville. This is about maybe 12 years ago. Yes, but. But so many patients coming in with issues with chronic mold toxicity. What are some of the things. How does somebody with mold toxicity present and what are some things you do to help them?
- [64:29]
B
I always find people that have high mold, they'll have. This is the General achy joints, really bad ache joints. Fibromyalgia. You have fibromyalgia, achy joints. You go into a building and it doesn't mean the building's infected, but maybe it does have mold. They'll find out that they can't go in their house anymore because they're getting light headed, foggy headed with they cannot concentrate. So they have the fibromyalgia, cannot think straight. They usually have an episode where they feel very dizzy and they're getting vertigo. Those are my big keys. So they get the joint body pain. Other thing is this, they will act like they have a concussion, like they will have concussive type symptoms. They literally, I'll ask them, did you have a concussion? I don't remember having concussion. I'm like, okay, so then they'll have memory loss. Most all mold people will have some form of memory loss. I can't remember what happened yesterday and get out with Lyme disease too. But those are my big mixtures. And when I find out that they have any type of memory loss, I'll get a mold test and they'll usually show for like aflatoxins or some type of. Yeah, they'll have a glial toxin of some sort. I just had a patient the other day and so he's been high impact sports, but he had pretty bad concussions and we've done everything for him. And the biggest thing that came back, he just got a test. He had off the chart mold toxicity. Like it was off, it was up in the 9,500 percentile. And he was having severe memory loss. He couldn't remember. He put his keys, he didn't know where to drive. He couldn't go anywhere. So people were going, I don't know if I need to turn left here on the road or turn right. When you have those kind of symptoms with the fibromyalgia and the joint, go to mold, look into mold. And you know, you and I have talked about remediation. This is how severe it can be. You could be clean and okay in your body of some sort, but may have a little bit of mold hanging out. But then you go into a house and it has mold spores. And what happens is you breathe it in and it activates the whole system again. And then you start having all these symptoms because the old mold starts to pull up. And I've had patients where I thought I was very smart. It's like, oh, we found this, we found this in the gut. Come to find it. It was mold all over their system because there's so much construction here, too, and it's just breathing up in the dirt, too.
- [66:31]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the things I know that's really. It's important with all these infections, but maybe the mo. It's very, very important with mold, and that is taking binders or something to allow your body to excrete it from the system. Because there's 24% of the population, they have a genetic variant that doesn't allow them to detox mold very well. It's very similar, like the MTHFR gene, but for mold detox specifically. What are some things you like to use to help people? Any herbs or other compounds or products to help cleanse and heal the body from mold issues.
- [67:04]
B
I'm with you. The hardest part about the mold toxins is the way it can attach and get into the major filters because they can congest and they don't want to be excreted. The hardest part is that they are very. They bind so well to all the lipids and the bile and the gut. So the first thing is I always try to clear the liver and the bile ducts because they will recirculate in the bile. They'll go down to your colon, they'll recirculate in your blood, and they'll just keep recirculating. So I always do schisandra. I will schisandra berry to clean out the bile, and then one's called chanca pedra, but it's like the stone breaker, stone breaker herb.
- [67:37]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [67:38]
B
That will loosen up all that congestion. So I'll say schisandra and. And stone breaker herb to start cleaning it out. There's glutathione. I'll throw in glutathione if you needed to, and maybe nac, depending on that. And those are like some of my big flowers. And then I always tell we got to get the body to poop. We got to get you colon pooping. So I will usually put something like a mimosa pudica mimosa, like the orange, you know, the drink.
- [68:01]
A
Yeah.
- [68:02]
B
That will get, like the sludge, the parasite stuff to move out of the colon. So those are my first avenues. And then with mold straight, like we talked about, it not only works for yeast, but I'll get them on skullcap. Skullcap is like. If you put high amounts of skull cap with those others, they'll flush really well. And there's. There's other things. We could put on selenium. We could put them on molybdenum but I don't want to get that complicated. But those skullcap and those other herbs are really good.
- [68:27]
A
Yeah, yeah. One other mineral that's good is just magnesium. You know, if you're, if you're dealing with constipation, doing some magnesium, doing a tablespoon of cod liver oil or flax oil, something like that to get the bowels moving. There's an old, and I remember, I'm trying to remember who, who I used to have patients that they had constipation. It might have been Holda Clark. This is an old kind of Balkans. They would do either carrot juice or prune juice along with a tablespoon of cod or flax oil and about 500 milligrams of like a, you know, high quality magnesium and then probiotics. But like doing some of those things.
- [69:00]
B
Flush it out.
- [69:01]
A
Yeah, yeah, just really, you know, good flush. Doing a lot of like peeled apples.
- [69:06]
B
It's such a great website, people with Hulda Clark. This is what I tell individuals. She would always say like the big three. She would say clove, wormwood and black walnut. She says you take those three together.
- [69:18]
A
Parasites.
- [69:19]
B
Parasites, yeah. But I found this. She said, like I was reading it said, well, if you had yeast or mold in your bladder, you can take those and it flush out. And so I just tell people you could look, use those three to. It'll kill off stuff like that.
- [69:31]
A
So if anyone's ever looked up online how to do a gallbladder cleanse and they did the class, do you ever do the classic gallbladder cleanse? I mean, literally drank a cup of olive oil and like 3 cups of lemon juice or something like that, so high, and then you lay on your right side and in the morning you pass. And I did that once or twice in my day, but that was Holda Clark. I mean, she was the person who created that liver cleanse protocol, I believe, and that maybe some of you have done at some point. And you know what? I think it's a good cleanse to do once or twice. The other thing sometimes you'll do is you'll fast and only drink or eat peeled apples or just cold pressed apple juice or veggie juice is something she does sometimes if you want to do kind of like the more advanced version of that to help flush out stones. But I like doing that. But only if you're going to do all the other things as well, like stop eating fast food and all the processed oils and take some of the things you were sharing. Last thing I want to talk about is parasites. This is something that the reality is more people have infections than they realize. I mean, almost everybody has some sort of infection that's causing some type of problem in their body, whether it be candida or long Covid or parasites. Talk to me a little bit about parasites and then what are some things you do to help heal parasitic issues?
- [70:54]
B
Parasites, first thing, I always try to find maybe a possible origin. So we know you can get parasites from your fruits and vegetables if they're not really clean properly. You can get them from lakes and rivers, you can get them from tap water, you get from people, you get from pets, you can get them. You can get parasites. Pork, you can get them from foods. Shrimp, you can get them from crab meat, salmon, you can get them from many things with parasites. Those herbs I just mentioned are really good, but I'll give you my top. Yeah, I mean, I love. I mean, clove really works well. Wormwood. I, I do like black walnut. And then an ayurvedic herb is vidanga, like video game vidanga and artemisia. Those are like top five. You don't take them all. But like, artemisia is really good for protozoa parasites like giardia, the vedanga is good for roundworms. So when a patient comes in and they have. If you have off and on bloating plus diarrhea or constipation. Diarrhea and bloating. After you eat or even after you drink a cup of water and you blow it out, you feel it right here. Or if you're losing weight and you stop losing weight, but you feel puffy around the lower pelvic area, that's parasites, in my opinion.
- [71:58]
A
Yeah.
- [71:58]
B
So I usually will start them off with usually two anti parasitics. So my top two would be artemisia and probably black walnuts. So I get them started on that and then I cut out all the sugars. You. You can't. The sugars will feed them and you'll feel them move around if you eat too much sugars. And so when I go to that protocol, I make sure that with the wormwood, it will really nourish to help them poop out really well. But even Colda Clark would say take, take mimosa and help them sort of get the sludge out of there. So that protocol you just talked about, get them pooping and getting those two herbs and a binder. A binder is really good. You have to like a charcoal binder or. I'm not promoting any brands, but there's different binders out there that you can take at night to help bind up the toxin. If you do just those simple herbs, you'll make profound difference. Yeah, because they have really big lifespans. They can stay along. I. I got another story that had a patient, and this is seriously. She had. She lived in. I think it was in Mexico. She said that they were so poor, unfortunately, that her parents, they had to eat what they could, and they would drink a lot of water from, like, the creeks and rivers, and they. That's how they lived. And she would. Had anxiety, severe anxiety, like, to the point where she's like, she couldn't work anymore. She called me and we started working on her. So I started on the dengue. I did some artemisia, just simple herbs. And then for three months straight. And she'd report to me online. She'd say, a three months straight, I've been releasing worms. And I was like, okay. She says, to the point where almost 10 to 14 inches daily. And this is for three months. And I'm not. I was like, are you serious? He goes, no. She goes, I have pictures. Like, I really don't want to see the pictures. It's okay. But they overlap, and they just. And they bind. And when they get scared, they'll lay eggs. And they can lay up to 10,000 eggs at a time if they want to.
- [73:47]
A
I had a staff member and. And she went on a trip somewhere and came back. And I remember she came out. She. We were in the. I was in my practice, and she came out and was, like, so freaked out because, you know, she had a bowel movement, and then she. Yeah, and there she had, you know, parasites. And it was.
- [74:05]
B
Yo. That's exactly when they. When they get scared and they're like.
- [74:09]
A
I mean, thankfully, I want to mention that not everybody. Like, you can have parasites. And most often you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna see it.
- [74:18]
B
You won't see it.
- [74:18]
A
You have to have a really, really bad parasitic infection in a very specific type in order to actually see it.
- [74:26]
B
You won't use it.
- [74:26]
A
So it doesn't. It doesn't mean you don't. Don't have it there. But, yeah, I mean, there's. There's a lot of people who are struggling. And here's the thing with all these infections, whether it be a parasite or. Or even Candida, I mean, the sooner you take care of it, the better. And you do want to address it. I have a cousin who we had on the show. His name is Dr. Pete Sulak. Was diagnosed with an astrocytomotype like glioblastoma brain tumor. And we believe, and several doctors believe, that he'd been doing mission trips to India and Pakistan for the past 20 some years. And they believe a big part of why he got brain tumors is because he had a parasite. And by the way, there's a lot of medical literature on this, that if you have a parasite, your chance of getting cancer goes up dramatically. Specifically, brain tumors. So the earlier. If you have a parasite, you want to do everything you can to start addressing these infections and healing them as soon as you possibly can and not wait. Because it's like this. Your immune system is powerful. It can fight one person. But if it's fighting Epstein Barr and Lyme and parasites and then cancer cells come in, it just gets overwhelmed.
- [75:38]
B
And so that's the hard part. Like when the brain tissue. It's like I always tell people when you get a parasite, and this is not to be scary, it just says if parasite gets in your body, it always goes to the place where it has the most sugars and the most proteins. And where's your sugars? It's up in your brain. And you and I are. This is what we're telling.
- [75:54]
A
I just said this was so interesting. Is by far the most. The one thing they found that was by far the most effective for treating brain tumors was a ketogenic diet.
- [76:03]
B
Wow.
- [76:03]
A
Going no sugar.
- [76:05]
B
Wow.
- [76:05]
A
Your point?
- [76:06]
B
That's amazing.
- [76:06]
A
Yeah. So, like Dr. Pete today, he is still. I mean, he's. He's on keto. I mean, and he'll be on keto for maybe the rest of his life.
- [76:14]
B
Yeah.
- [76:14]
A
Just be. Because of that very thing.
- [76:17]
B
They always go to the areas that have the most sugars and some proteins. So that's why, like, parasites will either go to your brain, they'll go to the joints because the joints have the ligands.
- [76:24]
A
And they'll go to your intestines because you've got Car. Yeah. You've got.
- [76:28]
B
They munch on it. And I. But to the point where I think it's really great when a practitioner finds out, like, what's a major hidden infection? Like, if somebody come to me and they had a really high case of Lyme or a pair, you clean that up. And just like you just said, if you clean out the one that's really drawing all their attention, it'll release the immune system. Immune system will start going, oh, I got this other guy, and I'll go kill. So you just. It's not. You have to kill every Single one of them. You just got to get the biggest ones out of the way. And usually your immune system starts.
- [76:55]
A
Yeah, listen, you're always going to have some infections. Your body can handle it. But those big guys that start to overtake things, you got to address.
- [77:00]
B
You got to address the ones that are just taking up the most space. And that's why I think that now, whenever you start to see more dementia, Alzheimer's, it's sad to me because, like, you know, my mom had health issues, and I had to keep her in assisted living for a while, and she's back with me now. But the thing was, you know, there's patients that are having Alzheimer's or dementia. I'm not saying they have parasites in the brain, but what are they feeding them in there? They're feeding them, like, just.
- [77:24]
A
Just sugar.
- [77:25]
B
Sugars.
- [77:25]
A
Yeah.
- [77:26]
B
And just sweet tea. And if they have an infection, it's just feeding them and it's releasing all that toxin and causing those issues to come out, in my opinion.
- [77:34]
A
Well, this is where we just, you know, we needed a complete change to our whole. Our medical system. And I am encouraged because it is very different. I mean, 20 years ago, when I started practice, or So I guess 18, 19, and you're a couple years more than I have, you know, but natural medicine wasn't as popular today. It's overtaking mainstream medicine, I think eventually will. And so it's exciting that we're finally now getting more and more to the root cause of some of these conditions. But, Dr. Chris, this has been great. Thanks so much for coming on today. Hey, I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. Dr. Chris is one of the world's leading experts in infections. All the things we talked about. And so it's been a real pleasure. And I know both Dr. Chris and I are working with the Health Institute, where we have a team of practitioners that are practicing the way that we've taught them to in terms of getting to the root of the problems, recommending diet and supplements and numerous other things there as well. And Dr. Chris has his own podcast, it's wonderful, called the Ancient Health Podcast.
- [78:33]
B
You can learn from Dr. Axe.
- [78:35]
A
Yeah, we used to do that one together, didn't we? So that was a lot of fun. But anyways, hey, thanks so much for watching. Hey. Please share this. There are so many people that don't know they have a chronic infection and they don't know how to treat it. Maybe they're taking antibiotics. They don't know that that's actually just going to make them worse long term and so people need to know the truth. And also the number one thing you can do to support this channel is subscribe. It allows me to bring on the amazing guests we've had like Dr. Christopher Motley here, other amazing practitioners and people. So I can bring on even higher level and better trained doctors and guests every time you subscribe there as well. But we'll be getting amazing reviews. Thanks so much for so many of you that have been leaving these five star reviews online from the the show just warms my heart. So thanks so much. It really helps myself to want to just continue to pour more and more in the show and going after helping people heal. So thanks so much for sharing. Thanks for subscribing and thanks here to Dr. Chris Motley for sharing his wisdom today. If you're watching on YouTube. Hey, please leave a comment. We'd love to hear. Hey, what is your biggest takeaway from today's episode? So thanks so much for being a part of the Dr. Josh Axe Show. We'll see you on the next episode.