← The Dr. Josh Axe Show
The Dr. Josh Axe Show
Why Your "Identity" is Preventing Your Physical Healing
00:59:20
You know what to do—eat clean, go to bed earlier, stop doom-scrolling—so why can’t you stay consistent? What if the real issue isn’t discipline, but the hidden stress script your brain runs on autopilot?
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A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy Smart move Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and el vary by state. The pattern of the world causes you to care what other people think. Try to keep up appearances. You become susceptible to peer pressure. When we oppose patterns intentionally, we move into the prefrontal cortex. So you're shifting yourself out of that emotional response. Which is why one of the many reasons I think reading the Bible in prayer is so powerful.
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A lot of people are living with shame, with guilt. They're beating themselves up. You have to fix those identity issues or your thoughts never change.
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A
Right? Let's go to Romans 12:2. Do not be conformed to the pattern of the world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or long longer dosing phase, about four in ten people taking empglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.
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What if your brain, the very thing you're relying on to tell you what to eat, what to say to somebody, how to live your life, was lying to you on a daily basis? Well, today I've brought in busygold and today we'll be talking about how your brain and thoughts actually start lying to you. And this causes major issues, especially with mental health, everything from anxiety to depression to just to unhealthy thoughts about yourself. And this can lead to cortisol spikes, insulin issues, infertility, pcos, hormone imbalance in many different ways in chronic health conditions, even cancer. And today we're gonna be talking about how to renew and heal your mind in order to heal your body physically. Busy. Welcome to the show.
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A
Thank you so much for having me.
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B
Well, I'm really excited to have you on because I think this idea of the mind body connection is really so important and one of the things I talk about on the Show a lot is our spiritual health, our mental health, and how these greatly impact our physical health. In fact, one of my biggest lessons in taking care of tens of thousands of patients is the singlest. Greatest thing impacting our physical health today is not diet. That's number two. The single biggest thing is our thoughts affecting us on a regular basis. And you wrote a great book that says your brain is a filthy liar. And so talk to me about sort of this discovery, about this idea that our brain and our thoughts are lying to us on a regular basis. And that's actually what's creating disease and dysfunction in our lives.
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A
When I first started this work, I truly believe that it was when I was a child. I had a mom that was struggling with borderline personality disorder. And when you grow up in a situation like that, you're faced with a choice either believe the mentally ill narrative and kind of buy into the gaslighting, or to dig your heels in, start to build really good pattern recognition and figure out what the heck is really going on. So from a very young age, thankfully, I had great pattern recognition and I could see that two plus two was really not equaling four around me. And when I was about 13 years old, and I talk about this in the beginning of my book, I watched the movie Fight Club. Have you seen that movie before?
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
And it was only in the very last scene when all the buildings are blowing up and you, sorry, spoiler alert, I'm about to ruin the plotline. You realize that the two main characters are actually one person.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And it was only in that one moment that I was able to find empathy for my mom, understanding for my mom, and compassion for my mom. But more importantly, it was just this little spark on my journey of I have to figure out what could cause somebody to be in such deep self deception that they could live life like those two main characters, that they'd have no idea. And it gave me, like I said, this empathy and compassion for my mom. But I just set out on this journey to try to understand what the root of self deception is and how hopefully we can start to help people recognize it, but more importantly, really cut it with truth so that we can get out of it. Because I really don't believe that we are called to be broken and unhealed. I think we are fully capable of living a healed, emotionally and mentally free state. And sadly, I think the society we live in today has tricked us into accepting and coping and no longer believing that we can get out of it.
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B
Yeah, I mean, I have so many women patients I've cared for over the years. I'm also thinking about my mom and others and they start to believe lies about themselves. And some of it goes all the way back to childhood. Of course, you know this. And maybe they had a schoolmate say something, maybe it was a parent that was critical, maybe it was a coach or teacher. But something happened and then they start believing this lie about themselves, about others, about the world, about God, and they live with the lie. There's a famed author and I've read a couple of his books and they're great. His name is, his last name is Dostoyevsky. And he says this, this, this quote that's so good. I'm. This, I'm summarizing. But he says the worst type of lie is a lie to yourself. That's powerful and I'd love to hear from you why that's true, why you feel like the worst lie is a lie to yourself.
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A
Because the average human being can't tell that it's a lie. I think that's why it's the worst lie that you can tell. Right. If somebody is consciously or actively lying, there's a part of them that has moderately weighed the consequences. When self deception is active, that person is reasonably unaware of the consequences. That's kind of the whole problem. The way I like to look at this is best looked at in a large circle with a smaller circle inside of it. So kind of not the overlapping Venn diagram, but a big circle with a small circle on the inside. So imagine in this big circle, these are all of your possible choices. And I know that this is graphic, but example, let's say I was a mentally unhinged person and you said something that made me mad. I could grab this beautiful Manukura honey and I could throw it at you.
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B
Right.
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A
I could be so enraged that I would throw anything that was in my hands. Have you ever met somebody that likes to throw things when they're mad?
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B
I got a two year old, so I don't know if maybe that's. Does that count?
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A
I've had experience with adults that throw things, but I work in the mental health system.
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B
Yeah, well, yeah, and I'll say my mom growing up taught, taught special needs and so a lot. And so I remember my mom coming home with bite marks and bruises and things. And so yeah, yeah, it's, it's different having my two year old throw something versus a grown adult.
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A
Absolutely. But I think the point is, and even if I go back to my mom, I remember growing up my mom, whatever she was holding, she would throw if she got really mad. So back when we had the phones like this, so many shattered phones in my kitchen. So in this big circle of all possibilities, technically I can choose to do something illegal right now. I could choose to do something rude, I could choose to throw this honey at you. Those are all in my possible choices of how I'm going to handle if you say something mad or something that makes me mad. But I am going to be constrained in my thinking by the rules that I've learned from my childhood about how to handle people, how to handle stress. Am I a self regulated person or am I a co regulated type of person? So because my circle is really small and my circle taught me to be more of a fawn, fawn response or people pleaser, my brain would never think throw a glass jar of honey at somebody. But it would not be in my awareness. So what we see here is that we now are taking all possibilities which technically, when I'm driving around traffic, I don't know if you've ever had thoughts like this. Sometimes I'm stunned at deep down how well we actually control ourselves as humankind. Because if you think about just one split second of wanting to like veer your car off or do something, I'm like, technically we all kind of function in this little Tetris and most of us make mostly decent decisions to not harm one another. Obviously there are of course people who,
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B
I mean, I deal with this frustration daily. I grew up in the north where people know how to drive. Now I'm in the south, same. And so it's very challenging. I mean, listen, everyone from the south, mostly in the rain and snow, in the elements, but it's.
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A
What part of the north are you from?
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B
I'm from Ohio.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah, I'm now in Tennessee here.
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A
So a little bit different, different people, different climate. So this idea that we actually reasonably do control ourselves in these small micro moments, right. Somehow we function in this relatively symbiotic core. But when we look at how these choices affect us, technically we could do anything at any point in time. But what happens to us as children and with repetition causes us to constrain the choices that we perceive in any given moment. So what happens is that of course for me this turns out well because I don't become a violent criminal. But, but what about when we're talking about somebody who chooses or sees only the behaviors that have negative outcomes? What about choosing to use heroin, choosing to be angry or to be physically abusive? We want to expand the choices that they perceive in any given moment. But right now, because of self deception, their brain filters those out. So then comes the question, how do we start to make somebody aware of something that their brain has intentionally hidden from their perception? And this is where in my book, I try to make sure to really drive the point home to me. I think the word trauma has been grossly misused, especially in the last 10 years. And I think that that can be on both sides, right? Like everybody has trauma, and then trauma ends up getting thrown around so much that then we kind of lose touch with what the real definition is. And one of the things I try to drive home to people is when you come in as a brand new baby, you are innocent, right? You haven't yet learned the rules of how to function in the world. You're not yet jaded, you're not hardened, right? You don't. You can't compare and contrast. Well, Mom's not as mad today as she was yesterday. So you're innocent. You have an unending capacity for love. You haven't learned to shut off yet. And hopefully you're able to be curious because a child has to poke and prod their world to try to understand what's really going on. So anything, sadly, that counteracts love, innocence and curiosity registers as trauma inside of the body. And when we think about it in that sort of nuanced context, then really everybody has trauma. And the goal is to try to figure out what inputs specifically counteracted love, innocence, and curiosity, because that is what has distorted their perception of reality and caused them to act out these repetitive patterns that often they can't see. Going back to the lie that you tell yourself, they can't see anything else because their brain has become so good at justifying, rationalizing, and excusing.
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When we talk about rewiring the brain, we usually focus on things like mindset or neuroplasticity. But one piece that doesn't get talked about enough is inflammation. And even something like honey can matter here, because not all honey is created equal. Certain types of honey can actually help support the gut environment where much of that inflammation starts. And your gut and brain are constantly communicating, communicating through what's called the gut brain connection. So when your gut microbiome is out of balance, it can influence mood, focus, and overall cognitive function. And that's why I choose Manukora Manuka honey to balance this. Manuka honey contains antibacterial compounds that can act as prebiotics to help support beneficial gut Bacteria. And if you want to try it, check out Manukora Manuka honey. It's become a staple of my daily routine. Head on over to manucor.com axe to get 31% off plus $25 in free gifts with their starter kit for my exclusive listener discount. Let me ask this, okay, so you said love, you said innocence, and you said curiosity. Now, to me, I don't, you know, I'm interested to kind of hear your thoughts on this because in those very, very younger years, those are more the feminine qualities of really nourishing. Okay. You then have more of the masculine qualities around discipline and around wisdom and around guidance of hey, we can't do this, or there's this sort of consequence. So talk to me about where those live, because obviously those are important. The Bible talks about them. They're critical. That's kind of, there's the love of God, there's the fear of God. They're both talked about frequently in the Bible. But talk to me about sort of where those live. I mean, are those considered trauma or are those considered part of the necessary development that's beneficial for a child?
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A
So what's interesting is let's take discipline and structure. Discipline and structure are neutral. It's how you discipline and create structure that could potentially cause trauma of some kind. Right. So example would be structure is absolutely necessary. Discipline's absolutely necessary. One of the things that we've done in my body of work is we have scanned over 15,000 brain patterns to determine what I talk about in the book is the brain pattern spectrum. So in essence, we can take 200 historical data points and it takes somebody about 20 minutes to go through it. And these are non narrative based questions. So not how did that make you feel? Or what did you think about your mom? Because as we know, if self deception is kind of one of those core filters that even our own story passes through, that information's not necessarily data driven. Right. It's our subjective opinion of what we think, but it's not necessarily what happened. So we take these 200 standard historical data points and the aggregate score of these, and how they kind of fan out on the matrix helps us determine which of the five brain pattern types that you are. Each of these five brain pattern types had very specific childhood inputs. And many of the things that we track have to do with discipline, style, structure, how the parents actually presented either emotionally or unemotionally. So we're looking at this very specific matrix across these 200 data points which we have found accurately predict patterns of thought behavior and decision making with 98.3% accuracy. So when we look at it this way, what we have found is self efficacy, self trust. And I was talking to one of your staff members about it this morning. An impulsive commitment style where you're just like, sounds like a bad idea. Sure. I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna go for it. These are the three strongest correlators with an adult who reports the highest possible outcome. Somebody who loves their life, loves their relationships. They feel like they're on purpose. They love their career. Right. Somebody who is just like, I love my life. I don't really have any setbacks. Self efficacy, self trust, and an impulsive risk seeking commitment style. So now if you reverse engineer those, we need to look at what parenting inputs create that. And there's a variety of different ways to spit that out. Right. It's like a recipe. You could do a little, you could do a little bit of this, a little bit of that. They're each gonna bake a slightly different tasting cake. When we look at structure and for example, right. We both have little kids. You have to teach your kid, here's the boundary. But the ideal scenario is that you teach your kid, here's the boundary, and this is the consequence. And if you push this boundary, there's going to be a consequence. But I'm going to deliver it to you in a way that is not emotional. I'm not emotionally dysregulated as I am sharing with you what the consequences. That's number one. Number two, you better follow through on the consequence. Because if you say there's a consequence and then they push and they test, which of course, as you know, they will, and you back down on the consequence, the child has now learned that consequences aren't real.
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Yeah.
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Right. But the key is delivering it in a way that is emotionally regulated, which a lot of parents don't do. And I don't fault parents for that. Right. A lot of us are tired.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. One of the things, so we talked about trauma and there's trauma, But a bigger part of some of what I'm hearing is, but then there's also training. Right. And so part of what's happening is as a parent, if you're saying, hey, you know what, here's the line, and if you do this, you're going to sit in time out or you're not going to have dessert later, I don't know, something, and you don't follow through. You're training them that there's no consequences. And think about what that means later on in life that you feel like, hey, I can steal, I can cheat and there's no repercussions there. Or it's 50, 50, I'm gambling. Sometimes there's a repercussion, sometimes there's not a repercussion. And so it's really interesting. And then there's an element there of, and this is where I think Dostoevsky the worst lies, a lie to yourself. Because in a way, if you were taught that and then you believe that and then you pass it on to your kids, it's not only affecting you now, it's affecting your kids, it's affecting everyone around you. If you believe in a way, well, sometimes we need to enforce consequences, sometimes we don't. It just depends on how I'm feeling today.
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A
The interesting thing about that also is maybe for you, you're making yourself believe it's flexibility or adaptability, right? Why you're not giving the same consequence or enforcing the same consequence each time you run the risk of having that input that you're giving them cause them to lose trust in you. Because actually when you give the same reaction or the same response or you follow through in a consequence in a repeated fashion, even if the child doesn't like it, you know, emotionally, they, they don't find it enjoyable, it actually causes them to trust you. So one of the things that I have shown on the brain pattern spectrum is when you fundamentally trust your primary caregivers. And this doesn't mean you trust your primary caregivers to be loving and sweet and enjoyable, but you fundamentally trust that they're going to do what they say. And there's structure and there is a repeated way to try to understand your world. You typically end up on the right side of the brain pattern spectrum. There's three patterns on the right and there's two patterns on the left. There are subsets within these five primary that start to split off what that child's protection style is, right? Whether it's more engaging or whether it's more isolating, whether they're more conflict prone or more people pleasing. On the left hand side, these are kids that did not trust their primary caregivers and as a result they end up typically developing great pattern recognition. They typically become very situationally aware and they tend to have high levels of self trust. So as people are listening to this, they're probably thinking like, but wait, don't we want to create a childhood environment where our kids trust us and we create structure and we make the kids believe that they are safe. This is where I think the biblical conversation comes back in. I think, especially in the Old Testament, there's a very specific protocol for parenting that is intended to prevent your child from overly trusting anyone other than God. Of course, you're supposed to respect your parents. Right. You're supposed to. There's supposed to be boundaries, of course, all of that. But what I have found is that parents who don't let their kids intentionally struggle. Right. And not in, like, a way where you're like, putting your kid at risk. We have to let our kids struggle, and we can't be there to pick things up all the time. We can't always be nice. We can't essentially lead them to believe that they live in a world that they don't actually live in. Right. If you give your kids this perfect cookie cutter childhood, what's gonna happen? They grow up, they become an adult, and they're gonna be a victim of their circumstance. The whole world is gonna be out to get them. But it really will be because you created a false sense of security in an environment that isn't like the world.
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B
Yeah, that's so good.
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A
And if you look at it from the biblical perspective, Right. Let's go to Romans 12:2. Do not be conformed to the pattern of the world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. The pattern of the world causes you to care what other people think. Try to keep up appearances. You become susceptible to peer pressure. So I think one of the things I've been the most frustrated about, I was raised Jewish, so my whole journey to Jesus is like a whole bizarre, I would say happenstance, but it was definitely divine appointment. But it's given me this unique perspective because I didn't grow up in the church. So now sometimes when I see what the modern church looks like, I'm like, huh? This is so confusing because I didn't ever have it filtered through anybody until I became an adult. Right. So when I look at a lot of what happens in the modern church, there is very much this keeping up appearances. We need people to think this, we want to hide this, sweep this under the rug. I think we're kind of fundamentally seeing this in a lot of different walks of life on social media right now. And these are all direct byproducts of parenting choices in childhood. And I think a lot of the modern church can start to perpetuate this. Instead of, you know, example would be like, if you're really going to be bold and walk with holy Spirit, can you really care what everybody thinks and care about keeping up appearances, or are you likely going to not yield to the Holy Spirit because you're going to be afraid of how it looks? I don't know if you've ever had any experiences like this in your life. Are you a risk taker?
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B
For sure?
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A
Yeah. I mean, I don't think you could have built what you've built if you weren't.
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B
Yeah, my dad used to tell me, like, my dad, this is actually even starting draxe.com and the supplement company and things like that. He was like, well, you know, just go to school, get in practice, and then pretty much don't leave practice like my parents. So my grandparents, they did the same job. They worked at Goodyear Tires from when they graduated high school at 19 to when they retired at 65. My dad worked at the same company his entire life, the same thing. But then I had another grandparent who like, at 40, was like, I don't want to do this anymore, and went and started like a kid's swim camp in Ohio. And so I kind of had both this on side of my family and then I got into practice and then I just had this passion for education and writing articles and creating videos and podcasts and I'm like, I'm gonna go all in on that. And my dad, you know, causing my dad anxiety at the time, he's like, I don't, I don't, you know, think that's the best idea. So anyways, yeah, myself and my wife Chelsea were definitely, you know, we try and take smart risks, of course.
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A
Calculated risks.
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B
Yeah, calculated risks. But yeah, and I think, you know,
- [24:53]
A
calculated risks is great. There's gonna be a threshold and I think on the brain pattern spectrum, and maybe it would be a good idea for me to kind of walk people through so that they can conceptually understand what makes it a spectrum. Right. A spectrum is a spectrum because there are certain qualities that go up or down depending on which way you go on it. Right. So there are these clusters that are important to note. So if we start in the center and we go to the left, every hash mark that you would move to the left, your self trust is going to go up, your situational awareness is going to go up. Self efficacy is going to go up. Hyper independence is going to go up, right? Where you don't look to others to even kind of come on the ride with you, everything's just, you know, you do it yourself. Which, as you know, I'm certainly not suggesting that all These qualities are inherently good. Every everything can get out of balance.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And we also see that a drive toward purpose and career goes up as you move to the left. So what can happen is that if you, let's say, top all those things out because there's a terminating point. If you have self trust at the very maximum, you have situational awareness at the very maximum, and you have essentially isolated yourself because of your hyper independence on overdrive, you can eventually become paranoid because you're taking in so much from your external world that feels urgent. You wouldn't know what to take action on anymore and you would have isolated yourself from anyone who could have been like, hey, you sure that's a good idea? Do you want to rethink that? Because you're a lone wolf, right? So there's, of course, that's part of what makes it a spectrum. There are, there are specific points that tend to have better outcomes as adults. What's interesting about true, I think, biblical parenting principles, they are intended to spit you out on the middle left, which interestingly enough, that is where the top 1% of all performers in every sort of organization, company, entrepreneurship, even within a C suite structure, all of the best of the best. Because I've scanned a lot of people, they all cluster right in the center left. So I think God was onto something when it was decided. These are the inputs that create an output that makes sense. Because there's this sweet spot, you naturally on the left don't really care what other people think. In essence, if you were raised properly and you do have faith, you care what God thinks, but virtually everybody else, you know, does it really matter? And because you're somewhat of a lone wolf, balanced, you can still collaborate, you still let people around you. And typically when you're in that center left because you're self contained, you show up as a leader, right? So you're not alone because people want to follow you. And a person that's kind of in that center left, they're also typically not skewing toward protective anger or being aggressive. They typically know how to be balanced and diplomatic. So there is this sweet spot. And when I do this work for corporations, those are usually places that we're actively trying to hire in recruiting.
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B
And slight left, some of this is connected to being more right left brain in terms of, you know, you're able to be analytical, you're able to think, think in terms of structures and patterns. And some of those things that I think are really, really important. I want to kind of weave this now into how this impacts our health. And I'm thinking about this with patients and everybody listening. In terms of one of the things that happens oftentimes is some people really follow through, and some people don't follow through, right? So some people, they start a habit and they keep with it. And a lot of people start and then they stop four days in or two weeks in, they're not able to keep up with it. What are some of those things that people can do in order to create healthy habits and stick with them? And ultimately, why do healthy habits fail with so many people?
- [28:43]
A
In brain pattern mapping, we track nine markers to determine how that client perceives reality. So in essence, how their perception is distorted. In my work, I call it the neurocognitive funnel. If we look at the interplay between emotion, behavior, and perception, I look at it as perception being upstream of emotional response and then emotional response being upstream of behavior. Right? And I think a lot of times in the traditional mental health field, you're talking about behavior around behavior, right? You're trying to mitigate the behavior by telling them to do another behavior, which I think is fundamentally flawed because they're not acknowledging, really, if we can correct the perception that's actually initiating that sort of biochemical response of emotion, the client's going to potentially have different choices available to them. Remember, going back to that circle. So what you're talking about are three markers that we look at for emotion and four markers that we look at for chronological behavior.
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B
Let me mention, just as an example, so I think people can get this. So when my mom was diagnosed with cancer, for many years, she felt like a victim. And later on, over time and spending time in God's word and just sort of meditating on it, she was able to shift her perspective to, you know what? I'm grateful I had cancer. I have a better relationship with my husband. I've learned to cherish every moment of the day. I saw God work a miracle in my life. I'm grateful to be alive. And so she had this really perspective shift. And literally, I can see how it changed everything about her and her sticking with things in her hat and everything. And so to your point, there's a lot of people out there who are still seeing themselves in victim mode. They've put a label on themselves. And to your point, that's the highest upstream. It's like you have to fix those identity issues or your thoughts never change.
- [30:29]
A
It's so accurate. And there are a couple interesting things about what you just shared about mom. Number one, when you're praying and you're in the Word. We actually know that you're moving yourself into your prefrontal cortex. So she's actually getting herself out of whatever sort of amygdala reactive response she's having. Woe is me. Why do things like this always happen to me? That is what's functionally happening when you are both praying and reading the Word, right? You're shifting yourself out of that emotional response, which is why one of the many reasons I think reading the Bible and prayer is so powerful, especially when it comes to emotional responses like anxiety and depression. The other thing that's happening is if she's kind of naturally more oriented toward victim mindset, which typically those on the right hand side of the brain pattern spectrum are, she's also opposing her pattern, which ultimately we all have the ability to do. But many people don't know how to strategically oppose their patterns. They end up staying the same or wildly justifying a pendulum swing that causes a whole other set of problems. But I think the whole body of my work is that there's a very specific pattern opposition that helps you rewire and come out of the state that you were in. And it sounds like what she was able to do is effectively push against. Often when people are on the right side of the spectrum and they have that more kind of victim centric perspective, they tend to also be somewhat lacking in their sense of purpose or what their identity and function is in the world. And that can sometimes cause a bit of friction in your spiritual walk, right? Like, lord, who am I? What do you want me to do? Right? So then like you end up being a victim even of trying to understand your identity in God too, right? So in a way, this pattern opposition of like not really having a choice, when you're faced with something like that, it kind of the stakes are higher and it actually sometimes pushes people, people to oppose those patterns. When we oppose patterns intentionally, we move into the resistance that typically our brain through lying would convince us not to do, we're actually activating the anterior mid singular cortex. And when we do that, our sense of purpose actually it's feelings based. We're like, whoa, I feel something. And when you do that, it grows. And then our ability to continue to oppose patterns grows. So really, I mean, obviously God designs all things for our good. And that situation obviously helped your mom, I'm sure, pop out of probably a victim rooted identity that she might have experienced since childhood, because that's typically how it happens.
- [32:54]
B
Hey, so if you've ever thought Something is wrong with me, but I just can't prove it. Then this is for you. Now, you might be eating clean. Even what you feel like is perfect. Working out, taking all of the right supplements. But you're still exhausted, still foggy, gaining weight, and you're not sleeping. And every time you ask for help, you hear the same thing. But your labs are normal. Here's what that actually means. Standard blood work only shows what's in your blood, not whether your cells can actually access it or not. You can give your body all the right inputs, but if your cells are in danger mode, chronically stressed or inflamed, they can't absorb or use those nutrients properly. If you're finally ready to heal, go to mybloodwork.com, you'll get an at home cellular blood work panel shipped straight to your home and reviewed on a private call with one of my senior health advisors at the Health institute. And this will help you finally connect the dots between your symptoms at the cellular level. We'll also determine if you're a good candidate for one of our cellular healing protocols so you can finally experience lasting healing once again. Go to mybloodwork.com to check it out. Something I know that a lot of people are dealing with today. And there's a secondary question I want to get into after this one, but is a lot of people are living with shame, with guilt. They're beating themselves up. They had one parent maybe that was highly critical of everything they did. And so they're trying to be a perfectionist or a people pleaser or going back. I'm a big believer in let's find the root. When did this start? What was the memory? Is it true? Is it not true? And going and finding that and pulling it out. But I know one of the things I've heard you talk about as well is both finding that personally, but also finding that in humanity when it started. Talk to me about that a little bit.
- [34:50]
A
Between 0 and 5 are where these patterns become hardwired. So kind of going back on the hypothesis, anything that counters love, innocence, curiosity, right? It starts to chip away. And the way I always try to visualize it is to imagine, imagine that a little kid comes into the world like an uncarved block of wood, right? Just like a soft, easily carved block of wood, anything. And this doesn't mean that the parents are intentionally doing harm or anything like that, but anything that the child perceives with any sort of negative skew just starts to take a little bit of a carving out. Eventually you Become five. And you've experienced enough by five that you have a shape. You are a sculpture that is unique to exactly what you experienced. Right. So those are all the nurture pieces, fundamentally. Now, inside of that woodblock, put this little light, you know, a little light right in the center. That's your spirit. That's who God called you to be, that has a unique destiny that he designed for you specifically. There's a purpose in there, but this little light is inside of this carved wood block. We're always going to have a piece of ourselves that comes from who God called us to be. But nurture, sadly, really overwhelms a lot of that. So think of it almost like this clouded filter. If you put a little light inside of a wooden block, how much light is going to be emitted from the woodblock? Probably none.
- [36:04]
B
None.
- [36:04]
A
Right. It still doesn't mean it's not in there. It's still in there. But as you're moving through life, what ends up happening? And I really do believe this is why we are called to renew our mind. We have to be able to learn how to take off this sort of wooden block that is preventing us from being who God called us to be. That is the pattern of the world. I do believe that is exactly what happened to us as a consequence of the fall in Genesis, when Eve eats the apple, right? It's like this little.
- [36:31]
B
We see shame. This is really when this started. And yeah, so that.
- [36:35]
A
And that is the first introduction of fear and shame. And I think something that's really interesting because kind of going back to the role discipline and structure plays in this. What does God say? You can do anything you want, just not this one thing. Right? It's the introduction of a boundary. All of this. You can do anything you want. Free will. Just don't do this one thing. And what does Satan do? Are you sure? I think maybe he's lying to you. Right? So it's this introduction of, can you really trust God? Why would he just give you that one boundary?
- [37:09]
B
Right?
- [37:09]
A
And what does she do? She pushes against it. She tests the boundary, much like a child might test the boundary. If you're like, don't knock over that glass of milk. And they're like, why not? Don't do it, don't do it. Boop.
- [37:20]
B
Yeah.
- [37:21]
A
And what happens as a result is we now have the introduction of fear and shame, and we have the introduction of self deception. At that point, they were naked and they had no idea. Now all of a sudden, she eats the apple. Oh, my God. Who Told you you were naked. Right. Because he realizes, okay, now I know what you've done. Because now you are overwhelmed by self deception. Seeing in the third dimension right now, you know you're naked. Before that, they were just probably in a higher spiritual realm. They didn't know that they were naked. Cause they weren't seeing their physical body. And then they fell. So if we look at that architecture, that's much what we experience, right. Where we. We know where the edge is. And there's a part of us that likes to kind of poke the edge and see how far we can push things. And of course, that's more so in childhood.
- [38:06]
B
Yeah, well, you know, kind of going the step now beyond this is in terms of like, people, a lot of times are driven by guilt, shame, people pleasing. I need to look perfect on the outside. And so those things start to crop up and. Well, I guess my next question before I get into the other is how do we remedy that? Give me very, very practically what people can do to start to fix that.
- [38:32]
A
Number one, be better at observing your own thoughts. So instead of being the one that is just speaking, this is the introduction of metacognition, which some people on the brain pattern spectrum have developed naturally. But. But all people benefit from learning how to do this. And it can be a little disrupting for a moment because it's challenging to both be the one talking and also observing yourself talk. And in essence, be strategically critical. Right. Not negative, not perfectionist, like, oh, you didn't say that. Right. But aware of what I am doing at all times. At a higher level.
- [39:11]
B
Right.
- [39:11]
A
At a higher dimension. That's number one. Number two, we need to get better at listening to the language that our brain is using, because our brain really functions off of language. I always attribute this, like, your car runs on gasoline. Our brain functions on language. Anywhere I look, whether I'm really actively acknowledging or not, my brain's like, plant Dr. Josh Axe light TV screen. It's trying to define using language. And if you and I were to go walk into a room, let's say we were to build a business together, and we were going to go interview candidates based on your childhood versus my childhood. If we had two totally different input systems and we have two totally different brain pattern types, and we both get a selection sheet of who we like and who we think is gonna be the best candidate, we might walk out of there having both experienced objectively the same exact thing. And your sheet could say one thing, and my sheet could say something totally different. So when we're thinking about that we need a person to also go back and understand as I'm perceiving, what language am I generating? Cause perception generates language. Mad, happy, sad, egotistical, confident. I might see something as confident and you might see the same exact thing as egotistical. If you label it as egotistical, you're maybe not going to hire that person. If I label it as confident, I'm going to give them a job offer. What's really true, Right? It starts to make you really question reality a bit.
- [40:34]
B
And here's the reality. There is a truth.
- [40:36]
A
I totally agree.
- [40:37]
B
There is a truth. And that's so important. And that's why the more time you spend in the Bible and reading God's word and the more time you spend around people that are high character and Christ like, the more you're able to discern what true is. I mean, it's just so important because we don't know. We're born not know. I mean you, you have to be crafted into understanding what's true. We have to retrain our minds on a regular basis. And, and, and I love that your work really includes this. And it's, it's just so critically important. And so to your point, we have to take every thought captive. This is just critically important. Make sure, hey, does this align, this narrative? I have these words, these things. This is aligned with the will of God and it's important. Another thing I see, along with shame and guilt, people pleasing perfectionism, there is busyness. Now this is the thing I would say that I'm most guilty of, or one of the things I'm most guilty of is I want to accomplish and achieve a lot. And I don't think wanting to accomplish things in and of itself is unhealthy. But I wrote a book a couple years ago called Think this, Not that. And the book, a big part of it was don't focus on what you can accomplish, focus on who you can become. I mean, the Bible doesn't say you need to accomplish these big things. It says, no, you need to become Christlike. And so I'd love to hear from you. What do you feel like the root is and how do people start to fix this excess? Because here's the stake of a lot of people listening. Let's say it's a mom or dad and maybe they even have older kids or something, but they are working, they're working and then they are taking care of kids at school and then doing soccer practice. So most of the time it's like hey, they're waking up at whatever, 6am, they're going to bed at 10pm and they literally have something scheduled every single moment of the day, every day.
- [42:36]
A
Interestingly, this whole urgency, overstacking your schedule, striving, they directly counter both patience and peace, which are fruits of the spirit.
- [42:47]
B
Oh, wow.
- [42:48]
A
Additionally. So what's interesting. So let's look at the fruits of the spirit. Right?
- [42:53]
B
Yeah. So you can look those up in Galatians.
- [42:55]
A
Absolutely. So then we also have the seven primary sins. And I think there's this interesting reciprocal relationship, because I think often what happens is in trying to not exhibit sloth, what do we do? We pendulum swing. We stay always busy. We're always doing all this stuff. And I think this is kind of. It goes back to this sole idea of most of us pendulum swing, when there's actually a very specific middle ground that we are called to walk. And I think the average person, they don't know how to recalibrate and find that line. And that is much of what we teach. Because if we know exactly, precisely what those nine markers are for you, and we know what balance absolutely is for you at each of those nine points, so then it becomes a little bit more strategic rather than trying to do some guesswork. And I think this kind of goes back to a question that you brought up earlier, which has to do, like, why do certain people not follow through? Right. And the follow through happens with some of the behavior markers. So we track behavior markers that unfold chronologically. So early stage. Right. When you first get into a fear state of, oh, my God, what am I gonna do? Some people immediately rush toward the fear stimulus. Right. Like, I'm one of those people that just. If something bad happens, I become creative, strategic. I go right toward the danger, and I'm like, I'm gonna figure it out.
- [44:12]
B
Right.
- [44:12]
A
Cause I've got strong self efficacy. I would imagine to some extent you do as well, because that's what makes someone an entrepreneur. Right. You can't sit back and be like, I don't know, I have to know everything if I'm gonna take one, One next step.
- [44:24]
B
No, I'm rushing in to help. Yeah, for sure.
- [44:27]
A
Right. But also, to an extent, at the expense of. Of busyness and overdoing it and overloading your plate. Right.
- [44:35]
B
And obviously, I mean, one of the two of the biggest sacrifices, which you never want to sacrifice for that is time with God and time with your family, you know, being there, present for that. Yeah.
- [44:46]
A
So going with this idea that you and I, for example, our Pattern, behaviorally, is to rush in. Right. Let's say that you start to rush in on lots of different things. Do you ever get yourself to a place where you realize, I have no more bandwidth left to give and one
- [45:01]
B
of these is going to drop Right now, today. I literally. I've used this word several times this week in texts, actually, two hours ago. I do not have the bandwidth for that right now.
- [45:10]
A
Right. And that's a. I'm glad you learned that. I've had to learn that the hard way.
- [45:15]
B
No, I mean, any of my friends will tell you I'm really good at saying no. No, I'm very clear. This is, you know, this is what's precious. I can't, you know, say, have you
- [45:23]
A
always been that way or did you have to learn that as a form of rewiring?
- [45:27]
B
I lean that way, but even leaning that way, I had to learn to do it. I mean, yeah, I. Absolutely. Still, it's. Even though I would lean that way probably more naturally than other. It's like, you know, you understand this. It's if. If you're naturally a good swimmer. Michael Phelps was naturally a good swimmer. He had to still train a lot to become a great swimmer. So it's just. Yeah.
- [45:51]
A
One of the things I think also might get you is we've found that the behavior marker that tells us what your init early stage commitment style looks like also corresponds with loyalty. So let's say you get yourself into a situation where you're loyal to all these people that you've committed to. That's where it's gonna potentially be harder to be like, oh, I know this edge. I know I have to protect my family. But it's gonna be harder to grapple with because you are naturally likely going to be very loyal.
- [46:18]
B
Yeah.
- [46:19]
A
So going with this sort of hypothesis, this marker, what we've found is that there are certain people that have pattern oscillation. So it's like they'll start one way and then something causes them to almost flip the switch and go the other way. This is what tends to lead to poor follow through. So somebody who maybe says, yes, I'm gonna do that diet, and they last for two days, maybe they last for three hours. And the next thing you know, they're getting a pack of peanut MMs. Right. We can see that in the brain pattern markers. And that comes typically through parenting inputs. So here's an example. And I don't know how you feel about this, but we're really strict about this in our household. Our son decided that he wanted to do a travel baseball team. And he hadn't had a ton of baseball experience, but he wanted to do this travel team. And, you know, probably a week or two into it, he realized very quickly, I am the worst player on the team. You know, And I think he. He cares what people. He didn't want to be the worst. He's a great athlete, but I think just when you level up like that, it can be hard. And what do you think he did? Mom, I don't wanna do this anymore. I wanna quit. I'm the worst player. Do you think I let him quit?
- [47:26]
B
No, he had to finish out the season.
- [47:27]
A
Of course you have to finish out the season. I'm not gonna make you do another season because believe me, I don't wanna do all the driving for the baseball team. But also, even if it's putting pressure on me and I don't wanna do the driving now I'm having to drive you while you're sulking. Also, I'm not letting you back down because when your parents let you quit things or let you kind of push and get away with it, what do you learn? Well, whenever I am not getting out of this what I want, I'm gonna quit. And guess what? With a diet, do you get results in the first two hours?
- [47:58]
B
No.
- [47:59]
A
No. And then you're gonna be like, ugh, in your head. Self deception. This isn't even gonna work. What if I stay fat forever? I'm just gonna go get peanut M and Ms. Right?
- [48:07]
B
Right.
- [48:07]
A
Which then maybe gets you to this last stage of your emotional addiction cycle, which perhaps this person actually ultimately is trying to walk themselves into a shame trap so they can go into the shame and futility of like, I'm never gonna change this. It's never, you know, I'm gonna be like this forever. Which then goes back into that victim mindset. So all of these little breadcrumbs all work together. Imagine like little puppet strings, basically to try to ruin your life. So if you wanna stop ruining your life, you have to figure out how your brain is weaponizing all these little things to make it seem totally justified. You should go buy those peanut M and M's. They're gonna taste so good, you're never gonna lose the weight anyways. Just go do it. Go buy em. You know the gas station's like, right down the block.
- [48:46]
B
Yeah.
- [48:46]
A
Deception and just self deception.
- [48:48]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:49]
A
It's not gonna be that bad. No, I mean, you can. Let's say that you had your partner trying to hold you Accountable. You can finish this bag of M and Ms. Before they get back. You can throw the wrapper in the trash can, right?
- [48:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, these types of self rationalization, like, well, they did this, so it's okay for me to do this. And this is where again to me it's creating healthy habits, especially those that we know that the church and people of virtue practice regularly in order to combat these thoughts and the lies that the world's teaching us that we're telling ourself. And so what are some of the most powerful habits people can implement in their lives in order to start to create a healthy mind?
- [49:35]
A
Number one, going back to the idea of language being weaponized against us is learning how to ask yourself the right strategic questions to poke holes in your self deceptive argument. Right. And this is, it's an art form. It's something that we absolutely teach in break method. It's a challenge. But I think also this is very biblical, right? It's the sort of truth, it's the word. Does the message that you are telling yourself right now, does this stack up against what God has called you to do? Does this stack up against the fruits of the spirit? So you have these kind of these sort of measurement thresholds where it should be easy for you to be like, no, it doesn't. This is not what God's called me to do. Right. God's called me to be brave, faithful. One of the things I try to remind people, if they're feeling down, remember that the disciples were on the boat with Jesus. They had already seen him perform miracles. And what did they do when he was sleeping and they were in the storm?
- [50:31]
B
I mean, they were, they were freaking
- [50:33]
A
out to just be quite freaked out, right?
- [50:35]
B
Yeah.
- [50:35]
A
Lord, Lord, Lord, Lord. Basically, like, how could you be sleeping right now? We're going to die, we're going to perish. And essentially he's like, listen, peasants, have I taught you nothing? You know, obviously, clearly jokingly paraphrasing here, but I think at that point he was probably pretty frustrated. Like, you've seen me perform miracles, you've been by my side teaching. You really think I would be sleeping right now if you were actually in peril? Self deception, right? They're overwhelmed with the way the seas look, the way the wind looks. They go into fear and anxiety. Oh my God, we're gonna die. Literally, God in the flesh is sleeping and we're gonna die. So if that happens to the disciples, give yourself a little bit of a break, right? Because we haven't seen those Things we haven't walked side by side with Jesus watching all these things. So self deception feels so real. But there are very specific linguistic arguments that you can use to literally cut right through it. And in my book, that's one of the things that once you. It's all based on brain pattern type and it gives you exactly what questions and arguments to ask yourself to cut through that.
- [51:41]
B
This is why the Bible uses the word faith so often is. You know, faith is the evidence of things not seen. And for us today it's like, well, if I. Evidence has to be. Most people feel like it has to be physical. If I can't see it, it doesn't exist. But the Bible is really clear. Faith is the evidence of things hoped for, that evidence of things not seen. So it's evidence that you don't even see. And so really it's learning to believe in trust with your spirit and these things that are unseen versus even things that are seen because to your point, they're actually seeing a storm. They're experiencing, they're feeling wind, they're feeling rain, they're getting cold. There's this physiological experience happening. And Jesus is like, trust in me, you know, Trust in me. Trust in God.
- [52:24]
A
Yeah. Rise above. See higher, up, higher. This is not what's really happening.
- [52:28]
B
And it's so hard. It is so hard. And it's so hard for people physically when they're thinking, I just got my blood markers back and it says I have Hashimoto's, my TPO antibodies are high and my T3 levels are off and my hormones are off and I've gained 20 pounds and I'm looking at my body and I don't feel like myself versus knowing, you know what, I'm going to be healed. God's got a plan. I know when I start doing the right things, it's going to start, you know, I will heal. And so anyways, I love, I love your methods of being able to get to what is the root here? What's the true problem? Let's identify it and then let's create these healthy patterns of retraining our mind in order to heal. Last couple questions for you. If somebody's thinking right now, okay, how do I get started in this? Well, one, I want to encourage everybody to check out Busy's book. It's called you'd Brain is a Filthy Liar. You can get it on Amazon.com. it's in a lot of bookstores all over the place here. But the Brain is a Filthy Liar and she really walks you through in so much more, in more depth, a lot of what we started to have the conversation about today, but also if somebody's saying to themselves, hey, where do I start? Where should somebody start right now in terms of making a change in their mind to make a change in their
- [53:42]
A
body, to not be so quick to believe your version. Right. Be willing to hit the pause button and say, I know it felt like that, but maybe is there something more to the story? So really just even, you know, it sounds trite, but just being able to stop yourself and just start that process of asking questions. If you, you know, I'm married, you're married. There are a lot of times that you're in a fight with somebody and they're saying that you said something. And I'm like, I really didn't say that. I'm like, pretty sure. God, can we get a replay? I'm pretty sure I didn't say that. But think about how many people immediately go into defense. I didn't say that. Why would you say that? I said that. Right? What if you hit the pause? Something that will come off completely differently is, honey, I really do not have a recollection of saying that. If I did, I apologize. What can we do to get to the other side of this argument that's very different than literally throwing another dart and you're like, dart, dart, dart, dart, dart. Just pause, ask yourself a question. Create a space in between a conversation that allows someone else's perspective to exist, because somewhere in between the two is what actually happened. And we need to learn how to co reconcile reality.
- [55:00]
B
Well, I want to give an example of this because this happens. This is a typical sort of like especially husband and wife thing where a lot of times, to your point, and this is why I love that you get into this, because I think it's so true. A lot of times it starts with our perception. So Chelsea says, josh, will you bring out the trash? Yes, I will bring out the trash in my head. I will finish what I'm doing, and then. And then I will do it. In her mind, it means you will do it. You know, get up, stop what you're doing, do it right now. I'm just. I'm just giving examples.
- [55:30]
A
The perfect example. Yeah, well, because then it's interpretation, right? Who's right? Well, no one's. Technically, you both just interpreted it differently.
- [55:37]
B
Yeah. You know. You know, the right way to go about it is open conversation when you're not in. Not being defensive, you know, and giving somebody the benefit of the doubt. As well, I think is such a, an important part of that. And one of the things you really got into earlier too is just this importance of self awareness, which is a form of emotional intelligence. It's more important than your iq, your EQ is. And so I love that. And so one of the things you're talking about is just being able to stop say, did I say that? What did I mean? And then having the open conversation. I think there's so much wisdom there.
- [56:13]
A
What you just got to, I think is also really important. Learning how to check your motive. Cause a lot of times self deception tricks us into thinking that we did something for this really justified reason. But if you really pause and you're like, am I actually trying to control and manipulate this person? Like, I know for a moment it felt really justified, but am I actually afraid of what they're going to do next? And really, even though technically I'm being extra nice, it's because I actually want something from them an hour later. Right. Being able to ask yourself that question. But I think also going back to even the scenario with the trash, a lot of us don't take the time to ask clarifying questions like, hey, honey, did you mean that you wanted me to take it right now? Or is it okay if I finish this other thing before I take it? Right. That could have changed everything.
- [56:52]
B
That's right.
- [56:53]
A
So I think people don't take the time to make sure everyone's interpreting things in a way that is unified because oftentimes people don't. We don't want to fight with each other. We don't want to constantly have conflicts, but we don't know how to pause and ask the right questions to get on the same page.
- [57:10]
B
Well, and part of this has to do with, I mean, you're better over communicating than under. Almost nobody over communicates. Or at least guys have never over communicated ever. And so, and part of this is like, that's how you build a relationship with somebody. That's what prayer is. It's a communication between you and God. That's the greatest way you're gonna grow closer to God. And a very similar thing. How do you grow close with somebody? You create great communication back and forth. And part of it starts with how are you communicating? And become aware yourself of what you're saying to yourself on a regular basis, which is just at the root of so much of what you taught. Well, Busy, I wanna say thanks for coming on. I wanna encourage everybody again, check out Busy's book. Your brain is a filthy liar. She does such an amazing job in here of getting to the root of issues. And if you're a person that's dealing with, you know, you're an achiever, you know, you're a people pleaser, you're a perfectionist, you have sort of these thoughts, you know, maybe it's shame, maybe it's guilt, but you're dealing with something and you know that your mind and spirit are keeping you from reaching your optimal physical health. Again, I want to encourage you to check out her book. It's absolutely incredible. Check out her work. She's got a great podcast herself that you can check out. What's your podcast?
- [58:20]
A
Podcast is Decoded and then Renew youw Mind is the very specific biblical program and that you can get on my Instagram. And then Break Method is just the overall program that we do with individuals, couples and families.
- [58:32]
B
Perfect. So make sure to check out busy all the incredible things she has to offer and we'll say, hey, thanks so much for tuning in here to the Dr. Josh Axe show, where each and every week we're diving deep into the science and principles of how you can heal physically, mentally, spiritually and take your health and your life to the next level. Hey, do me a favor, subscribe. It's the number one thing you can do to support me, to support the show and help spread this message of health and healing and also sharing this as well. Thanks so much for watching and listening. We'll see you on the next episode. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra, that's the OG it kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the white can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe and every every single one is Zero Sugar.
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A
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- [60:00]
A
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