Podcast Summary: The Duncan & Coe History Show – “Alexis' Full Contact History”
Release Date: November 7, 2024
Hosts:
- Mike Duncan: Bestselling author known for The History of Rome and Revolutions.
- Alexis Coe: Presidential historian and senior fellow.
1. Introduction to the Duncan & Coe History Show
The episode kicks off with Mike Duncan welcoming listeners to the inception of the Duncan & Coe History Show. He mentions that the series will feature a blend of previously recorded episodes alongside fresh content currently in production.
[00:00] Mike Duncan: “Hello, Mike Duncan here. As we get the Duncan and Company show off the ground, we are bringing you a mix of episodes that we've recorded over the past few months, plus new stuff we are recording right now.”
[00:24] Mike Duncan: “I am presently in the basement of the Anderson house in Washington, D.C. which is the headquarters for the Society of the Cincinnati.”
[00:37] Alexis Coe: “I was at the Greek ambassador's house, and then I went to a weird dinner and then I ended up in the Senate chambers at like 11pm it was. It was a night in D.C. yeah, you were.”
This brief exchange sets a personal tone, highlighting the hosts' active involvement in historical locations and events.
2. Book Review: Erik Larson's The Demon of Unrest
The conversation shifts to Alexis Coe discussing her recent review of Erik Larson's new book, The Demon of Unrest, which marks Larson's inaugural foray into Civil War history.
[01:31] Alexis Coe: “The Demon of Unrest is Larson's first foray into the Civil War. And I will say that Larson brings up a lot of feelings among historians that I previously did not share.”
Alexis praises Larson's ability to engage the mass audience despite the dense historical details, likening the reading experience to floating in the Dead Sea—overwhelmed yet carried along by the narrative.
[02:14] Alexis Coe: “It's like the Dead Sea. It's so dense with details that it's best just to float. Like, if you try to swim, you try to look for the origins, you're not going to find it.”
She notes Larson's strength in capturing pivotal moments leading up to the Civil War, particularly focusing on the months between Lincoln's election and the outbreak of war.
3. Terminology in Civil War History
A pivotal moment in the discussion arises when Mike skillfully puts Alexis on the spot, probing her understanding of terminology related to slavery and emancipation.
[03:45] Alexis Coe: “Or the standard is self emancipation.”
[04:00] Mike Duncan: “A free person.”
[04:10] Alexis Coe: “Exactly. Or you can say someone who freed bonds, who fled bondage. Someone who claimed their own freedom.”
This segment delves into the complexities of terminology, highlighting the importance of precise language when discussing historical subjects. Alexis further criticizes Larson's portrayal of enslaver James Hammond, urging the use of unequivocal terms like "rape" instead of euphemisms.
[06:35] Mike Duncan: “Rape.”
[06:36] Alexis Coe: “Yeah, you just say rape.”
4. Alexis's New America Series
Shifting gears, Alexis introduces her involvement with New America, a bipartisan think tank in Washington, D.C., where she has been developing a discussion series centered on America's 250th anniversary.
[07:20] Mike Duncan: “Let's move now from something that you wrote to something that you did, which is this new America series. So please tell me what on earth this New America series is and what you've been doing with it.”
[07:36] Alexis Coe: “New America is a bipartisan think tank in DC, and I have been a fellow there, and I have been working on a discussion series... I'm not so sure I get it anymore.”
Alexis articulates her motivation to bridge the gap between historical analysis and contemporary political discourse, aiming to engage audiences in meaningful conversations about presidential qualities and America's evolving narrative.
5. Challenges in Programming: The Firearms Talk
Not all of Alexis's initiatives have been met with enthusiasm. She recounts the difficulties she faced in scheduling a talk on firearms, which ultimately resulted in low attendance despite her bipartisan approach.
[14:13] Mike Duncan: “So what was the topic of like, what were you trying to talk about with guns?”
[14:18] Alexis Coe: “It's often treated like a 21st-century problem... I am approaching this from a bipartisan standpoint.”
Despite her efforts, institutions hesitated to engage with the topic, citing various reasons including the contentious nature of gun control debates.
[15:00] Alexis Coe: “But it’s exactly what I wanted. But I do think there's one final thing I'll say about it... pride in the founding, and then you see people's eyes wide... reckoning for the ways we've fallen short... aspiration towards a better future.”
6. Presidential Qualities: Empathy vs. Narcissism
A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the qualities that define effective leadership in presidents. Alexis shares insights from her talks, emphasizing empathy as a desirable trait contrasted with the narcissistic tendencies observed in some leaders.
[19:17] Mike Duncan: “Yeah. He's narcissistic.”
[19:19] Alexis Coe: “Yeah. And so that. That was fascinating to me.”
Alexis mentions how audiences frequently cite empathy as a key quality, noting the stark difference between current presidents in terms of empathetic leadership.
[18:19] Alexis Coe: “...what presidents do better and what's brought nuance to it more than I think I have ever seen.”
7. Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode
As the episode draws to a close, the hosts hint at future discussions and content, with Mike Duncan suggesting that upcoming episodes will feature his own projects and experiences, continuing the reciprocal interview format.
[20:07] Mike Duncan: “And so, yeah, as we go forward, we'll talk about the new things that are coming along. You know, what we're working on, what's getting dropped, and next week, you can ask me questions about all the things that I have been up to.”
[20:21] Alexis Coe: “I'm excited.”
Key Takeaways:
- Erik Larson's The Demon of Unrest receives a nuanced critique from Alexis, appreciating its detail-rich narrative while questioning its portrayal of certain historical figures.
- Alexis's New America Series aims to foster deeper conversations about America's history and presidential leadership but faces challenges in covering sensitive topics like gun control.
- Presidential Leadership Qualities remain a focal point, with empathy emerging as a highly valued trait contrasted against narcissistic behavior in political figures.
Notable Quotes:
- “It's like the Dead Sea. It's so dense with details that it's best just to float.” – Alexis Coe on Larson's writing style. [02:14]
- “You should not be someone who is immersed in the Civil War to know that you should not.” – Alexis Coe on historical terminology. [04:22]
- “We can do better. It can be better.” – Alexis Coe on America's future aspirations. [17:44]
- “He's narcissistic.” – Mike Duncan on presidential traits. [19:17]
This episode offers a compelling blend of book critique, historical terminology discussion, and an exploration of contemporary presidential qualities, providing listeners with deep insights into both hosts' scholarly endeavors and personal projects.