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The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
Episode #139 Featuring Dr. Rafael Gonzalez! A masterclass on the IMMUNE SYSTEM! The Eye Opening Guide to EVERYTHING you need to know about the IMMUNE SYSTEM!
01:01:03
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- [00:17]
A
Your biology may not be the same in your 40s as it was in your 20s, but your standards and goals can be even bigger. We're at a time where we have more tools and methods to not just live longer, but also healthier with better results. As we age, aging is no longer longer viewed as a decline. It's about optimization and time efficiency. Training smarter and more efficient is a new standard and we now know how to get more from the workouts we are already doing. Now chances are your supplement stack is missing a much healthier foundation. So enhance it with Might Appear, a targeted supplement that revitalizes your mitochondria, the powerhouse of your cells. Mitochondria are crucial to overall health, not just energy production. Protein builds muscle. Creatine supports power. Might Appear helps support the cellular engines that your cells thrive. Everything follows. So claim your free aging muscle protocol guide and free sample of Might Appear gummies From timeline@timeline.com Dylan it's the science back breakdown of exactly what's happening to your muscles as you age and how to fight back. All right everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Gelli podcast. So you know, one of the huge benefits that you get when you interview so many different people is that you get introductions you really weren't ready for or weren't aware were coming. And that's what happened with me and my guest today. I did several interviews there back and forth with Dr. Daniel Pompa and he said, well, I got a couple people I think are going to be of significant interest to you and I, of course I'm going to take his his recommendations, but this one in particular stood out to me of the ones that he sent me. And I have been excited for this interview ever since we talked and I think that you're going to see very quickly as to why. Now, my guest today serves as the chief development and science office for Restem Group and he has extensive knowledge in all aspects of cellular biology, regenerative medicine and the key to longevity, maintaining immune health. And he has several patents and leads multiple clinical studies which we're going to talk about today because he's got some new information that he wants to provide that I can't wait to hear about. And I specifically didn't have him tell me so I could learn right with you guys in the brand new but he developed an immune based therapy using natural killer cells in the context of longevity and it demonstrated one of the first of its kind methods to reduce immunosenescence in humans. And he's also produced a regenerative medicine, Exosome topical, that's disrupted the cosmetic rejuvenation space. So we're going to get into all this and plenty more. My friends, welcome Dr. Rafael Gonzalez.
- [02:55]
B
Dylan, thank you for having me here. Pleasure to be here and love to educate as you do. It's a lot of fun to do, especially when we talk about the most important thing in our body, the immune system.
- [03:06]
A
I am so stoked. You know, I've actually had some pretty strong discussions. Dr. Jeffrey Bland and I had a really good one on the immune system, Dr. William Lee, all highlighting the importance of it. And I know that you have an extreme expertise in that. And so my knowledge base is bigger than when you and I talked, and I'm ready for you to enhance it to the highest extent amongst everything else that you talk about. So once again, thanks for coming in here to see me. I really value anybody's time, especially yours, because I know the extent of where we're going today. So let's lead into that with some of the discussion on the immune system. But you made it very clear in what you just said, the most important. Why do you say that?
- [03:54]
B
The main reason is because every single disease has an immune component to it, believe it or not. And some people say out there, well, no, if I have a genetic disease, it does not. No, there's an immune component to the progression of that disease, always is. For a simple example of such is something such as pediatric Duchenne muscular dystrophy, which is a devastating thing for pediatric kids. It's awful. Yet if I can help control some of the immune destruction in there, I can slow down the progression of that disease. That's why the immune system is so powerful. There's every single disease, neurological diseases, we take them for granted. It's mostly an immune system issue. The immune system has gone away. It's not doing what it's supposed to do, and it causes a neurological issue.
- [04:46]
A
Would you say that progressively over time that immune system health has declined significantly? Okay, and why would that be?
- [04:55]
B
One of the biggest burdens is a lot of things. Number one is diet. What's going on, what we're being fed, what we're being dealt with on a daily basis to the environment is really, really bad. And three, your immune system, as you age, every cell in your body ages, no matter what. However you think about it, it's something called the Hayflick limit. Every cell in your body has a finite amount of divisions and at some juncture it stops dividing and doesn't do much. This is The Hayflick limit. But the biggest problem as you age is, and you can see this as you're developing, is on a daily basis, your immune system is challenged. Well, what happened six years ago? Six. Was it six? I mean, it's been a long time now. Six years ago, Covid. Right. We got hit with another challenge to our immune system.
- [05:54]
A
Yes, yes.
- [05:55]
B
And it was a devastating challenge to the immune system. And the simple analogy that I talk about a lot of times is listening. The UFC fighter is going to beat a standard 2, 3, 4 people on the street, but when 7, 8, 10 people come at him, he's not going to win. And it's what happens on a regular basis with your immune system. It's, it's, it's really bad because you're challenged with daily bacteria. You're challenged with daily mold toxins, fungus, microplastics, which is nightmare. Metals, which are a nightmare. The environment, the pollutants, everything your immune system has to deal with that. And if your immune system gets overwhelmed, it's a big problem. The biggest issue we're having is we go back to the COVID is the virus. And a lot of people don't understand. They think a bug is a bug is a bug. No, a virus is something that requires a host. You are the host. While this alien has come into you, and it's crazy. If you look at images of it, it looks like a little spaceship that basically shoots its DNA into your cells and then replicates, and it lives there. So this thing knows ways of. Since you require, you're required for it to live, it knows ways how to hide and how to cause havoc. And if your immune system is challenged, or if you're dealing with eight, 10 other things, this thing is going to be a massive burden. Like, there's many diseases now, and there's more and more evidence coming out, especially autoimmune diseases, which are becoming really problematic not only in the US but worldwide. More and more of them are surfacing. More individuals that think they only have rheumatoid arthritis, have an ankylosis spondylitis, have ulcerative colitis, have all these different autoimmune diseases sort of combined in one. It's because the immune system has become somewhat hijacked in many instances, and the hijacking many times are these viruses where we finally identified at least one so far that is multiple sclerosis that is hijacked by Epstein Barr virus is what causes it. So these viruses are. Or it's causing a lot of problems, don't get me wrong, they're good viruses. Like there's good bacteria that we have to live symbiotically with, but the majority of them, specific ones, are really, really bad and detrimental to our system.
- [08:35]
A
What's the direct cause to your cells that then in turn weakens the immune system?
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B
What, what ends up happening is the immune system, especially in the context of an autoimmune disease, it becomes exhausted. You know, cells divide and turn over on a regular basis.
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A
Right?
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B
Your body, especially when you have an autoimmune disease, your body has now saw something as it is foreign. So if it sees something as foreign, it goes on to overdrive to attack that foreign entity. For instance, in a particular disease that we have a clinical study for, it's called polymyositis dermatomyositis, myo, meaning muscle. Muscle that attacks muscle, it attacks skin. Eventually these patients will have issues with their lungs because it'll start wiping out lung tissue also, which they end up succumbing to the lung portion of it because of it. And it sees your own skin, your own muscle as foreign, it's killing it, and it's on overdrive. It's not balanced, it's not in what's called a regulatory state, which is the way your immune system is supposed to be. Our body's supposedly consistently in a regulated state, which is called homeostasis. And we want to be in homeostasis when the immune system is consistently on overdrive and cells are dividing at some juncture. We talked about the first thing we talked about earlier, that hay flake limit. The cells are no longer going to be able to function correctly. And then the system says, well, wait a second, how do I. Because your immune system works in one particular way, it is attack, try to remove, try to eliminate, which is inflammation. And then to the opposite spectrum, which is called a TH1 inflammatory response. And then to the opposite spectrum it has to heal, which is a TH2 anti inflammatory response. But if you have too much of this, which is that inflammatory response, this healing cannot respond. It can't do anything. The weird thing about the immune system is cancer.
- [10:42]
A
I was going to ask about that, but I'll let you go first.
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B
Is cancer. That cancer patient, completely opposite from that autoimmune patient, does not mount a killing response. That individual that has cancer we now know has a high amount of regulation, so there's no killing. That's one aspect of it, besides the cancer's ability to hide.
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A
Right?
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B
It finds a way to hide, to get away from anything and to do it, but you don't have an appropriate mounting killing response in those patients. You normally have a healing response, but you can't heal anything without eliminating it.
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A
Could you just explain what causes cancer to start, like, cellularly, how it actually begins?
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B
There's many. Well, there's many different things that happen, mostly mutations. So if you think of on a daily basis, you go outside and you're exposed to UV light and you most likely will get a mutation in your skin, your immune system. The first responder to that, believe it or not, one of the first responders is called the natural killer cell. It is supposed to target it is supposed to eliminate that immediately. That's when your immune system's optimized. If it is not, then this thing goes unchecked. That unchecked has a possibility just in the context of, let's say, skin to go into the blood system. What people don't understand is that we're not quite there in the technology of the testing aspect. Somebody will go and they'll go get a full body scan. My body scan is completely clear. The problem is to you identify a million cells in a ball. And being a cell biologist, I see this is a speck on a table. There is no technology out there that's really going to identify that speck on the table. We have to talk about a billion cells in a ball, which is the end of my fingertip, which is not much. That's a problem. That's something that might be identifiable. But even that's a little bit difficult to identify because when you talk about people have, you know, a millimeter, you know, that's what they normally catch is a millimeter, two millimeters, a centimeter, you know, centimeter is billions of cells, and it's massive.
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A
I know.
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B
And then what people don't. The other thing that we don't understand, which now they're starting to get a little bit more progressive on the testing aspect of it, is looking at those cells that are in, like you find it in a lesion or something like that. Those cells that are found have the propensity to release cells. And these are called circulating tumor cells. And those cells, there's some testing now that you can actually detect those, which people are now getting smarter and smarter with detections of it. That is the problem when you talk about somebody who's had cancer and you talk about more than anything else, no evidence of disease versus in remission of disease. You couldn't find disease versus in remission of disease because you don't really know. And it's hard to detect if this stuff has been circulating and if it's going to come big comeback. The key to all of this is maintaining immune health.
- [13:57]
A
Would you say in all your years of, of understanding and observation and I think I know the answer, but I, I want to know from you that a weakened immune system will make you more susceptible to developing cancer or cancerous cells.
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B
Thousand percent.
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A
Okay. All right, so that would, that's why I wanted you to give the full explanation of how it caused and then relate it to the immune system in general.
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B
Yeah, something in the body's gone array and the immune system hasn't detected it, hasn't killed it. The immune system is not working optimally.
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A
So if you were say around cancer causing aspects, whether, and people can argue what those are anymore, but let's just say you're around heavy, heavy chemicals that would potentially cause cancer, microplastics, etc, if you have a very strong immune system, you have a far greater chance of not developing cancer as opposed to somebody that's got a weakened one or has kind of suffered some sort of some alterations with their immune system.
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B
A thousand percent. Yep.
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A
Okay.
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B
Correct.
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A
All right, so it's, it's a cellular problem, but the immune system is going to play a huge role into preventing or at least mitigating the, the potentially spread or growth of that.
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B
Yeah, well, the immune system is the one that's got to take care of the immune cells. The immune system in general, whether it's part of the innate, the immediate response or the secondary response, which is a military. Those have to be able to work together and eliminate and kill, regulate and heal. They are the key to all aspects of longevity, including believe it or not, your skin, your way, your appearance is whether you look healthy, you're not healthy, and it's an issue. And one of the things you guys talked about, for instance, if you get burdened with massive metal toxicity, what does the immune system have to do? The immune system has to now go and direct it towards that.
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A
Right.
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B
The entire immune system has to go, especially when you're older, has to go and direct it towards that. It doesn't even mount a correct short response like when you were young. But what happened to everything else that's going on in your body, the other viruses and everything else. Now all of these things are opportunistic. That's where these things, you know, surface. The simplest example of this is when you look at chickenpox or when you look at basically, you know, the age associated aspects of, of chickenpox which is shingles is. It's an opportunistic virus. Your immune system becomes weakened or you have stress. Stress is a killer. Yeah, you get stress and the immune system becomes dampened, weakened. This now surfaces. Your immune system has to figure out how to remove it to clear it.
- [16:39]
A
When my dad passed away, my mom got shingles and she got psoriasis. And those are extremely stress related problems, correct? Yes. And that weakens your immune system. And boom. Wow. Okay, now we, we kind of covered that cellular side of it. I want to shift a little bit now. There's a couple things that I want to get into with the immune system. But first you brought up diet. And so I want to shift to the problems in our everyday diet and how that relates to our immune system. Certainly the buildup of inflammation is really the center of all diseases, and I'm sure that just thrashes our immune system. But can you, can you correlate that with the foods that we're eating and then maybe touch on some of the foods that you would say are beneficial to our immune system and then others that are just destroying it?
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B
The problem with the food is the gut houses about 60% of the immune system. It's a, it's a massive immune component. And what people don't understand, if you should know this, is when you eat too much or when you eat processed stuff or you eat bad stuff, why do you feel, number one is why do you feel sick? It's because there's what's called a neural gut axis. There's an inflammation that happens in the gut, and then it sparks your brain to tell you, I'm sick, I need to stop eating. That's another aspect of nausea, vomiting. It's telling you. Your system is telling you to stop eating. When you feel nausea or you don't feel well, your system is telling you stop, or it's telling you you ate something that's bad. It's a big issue because it taps the immune system. It puts you in an inflamed state. Putting you in an inflamed state is basically trying to resolve a gut issue. When the immune system should be dealing with everything else.
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A
Right.
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B
It should be dealing with pathogens in your vasculature, in your blood system, in your tissue. It should be dealing with all of the viruses that are there, keeping them at bay. It should be regulating the entire system, not focused on the gut.
- [18:38]
A
And that's one of the things I learned, was how the immune system proportionately was so intertwined into the gut. Because I really Wasn't aware of that. And that's when I've been getting more into the discussion of gut, leaky gut. So I've covered the basis on that a lot. But when it comes to learning about how it all ties together, I think that you're going to have more expertise than anybody that I've talked to about that. And that's why my concern with the diet especially is leading to so many other problems, because now I understand it's the tie into the immune system. And if you're making your immune system work one direction, you're leaving yourself wide open. It's like you're sending all your troops one way and there's no army on the other side. So if your diet is really bad and it's causing you this slew of problems over here, you get a virus, you get a Covid, you get something else. My assumption is it's a hundred times worse than what it should have been.
- [19:31]
B
Yep, I'm gonna feel bad. It's gonna take you longer to recover, especially as you age, because the immune system is not functioning correctly, and it's gonna be, you know, a problem. The process. For me personally, the worst thing are the process. Breads, carbohydrates. There's probably nothing worse like here in. At least in the US I avoid bread. The only bread I'll eat is, like, an organic sourdough. That's the extent of it, because I know it has, you know, good bacteria in it. It's done well. But other than that, I notice when I touch any form of bread, I don't feel right. I feel off. There's pastas that are similar. There's grains and rice that are similar. There's even. People talk about oatmeal being good. These are oats that I don't. It's. Yeah, it's not, you know, o has cholesterol benefits. These are oats that tap your. Your gut and your microbiome significantly. You know, I. I just. I focus on what's called clean organic eating as much as possible, eat clean. I'm not a pescatarian vegetarian, vegan, carnivore. It's an individual you might suit well with being a vegetarian. I might be an omnivore. I eat everything and I switch it up and I change it around. I don't, you know, I cannot go vegetarian. I don't feel well. I cannot go carnivore. I do not feel well. If you don't feel well, that diet's not for you. You have to find that Right. Fix that. You feel homeostatic, you feel fine on a daily basis, that you're energized and you feel well. And the other big thing that nobody focuses on is people eat way too late.
- [21:12]
A
Yes, I used to do it all the time. All the time I did.
- [21:16]
B
It's. You don't understand. You sleep for a reason. You're sleeping to heal. If, if you're eating, where's all your energy going at 9 o' clock at night or 8 o' clock at night and you went to bed at 9:30 or something like that, Your food is still digesting and your, your body doesn't have that opportunity to heal. You need that opportunity to heal. That's what sleeping is for. It helps your immune system relax, it helps your gut, your digestive system. Your metabolic function, which is so important, has to be dimmed down. The other thing is there's only one thing that ages you. It's what we just talked about. The biggest thing is the hay flick limit. Cells divide, stop dividing when you eat excessively, what has what, what ends up happening. Your liver has to process all that. Cells have to divide. Cells have to work on overdrive. Cells age. You gotta cut it down, you gotta eat clean, you gotta cut it down. You know, the focus has always got to be diet, sleep, exercise. Yes, if you're not moving, you're going to lose it. And there's, and the crazy thing about it that people don't understand is those are, those are simple. People talk about, oh, it costs too much money to live longer to do. No, those are three things that you have full control over. There's no excuses. I blew my knee out. Hey, guess what? I have arms. I can do a cycle with my arms. I can lift with my arms. I can do exercise with my arms. I can do breathing exercises. Those are exercises. I don't need my knee to do that. Vice versa. I blow my arm, I mess up my back. I have legs to walk with. These are simple things that anybody could do on a daily basis. Set a routine of sleeping at a certain time, stop eating at a certain time. You have full control over all that and that doesn't cost you anything.
- [23:03]
A
No, I agree. I don't even want to tell you how I used to eat late at night. For so many years.
- [23:07]
B
I did the same thing.
- [23:08]
A
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- [24:51]
B
about it and it's like, and is the greatest.
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A
I love yo. He's great. We had a, we had a good, good deep conversation that we just studied or sat on oats. It was great because it's a polarizing thing like so many other things. But I'm glad you pointed that out. Could you, could you give a few foods that you would recommend for improving your immune system that are, you know, and whatever they are, doesn't matter what diet it falls under. It's just simply these are good foods for your gut or immune system.
- [25:18]
B
Yeah, there's, there's, I mean, there's quite a few of them you can discuss. Some fruit, things that increase vitamins like vitamin C, vitamin D, depending on if you can tolerate specific types of dairy. They work well. Things that have like, for instance, probiotics in them.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Are really phenomenal. You know, like, yogurt's, Greek yogurt is phenomenal high in protein. You know, people that can tolerate the dairy aspect of cottage cheese. It's actually, actually another thing that's actually really, really good for you. Specific fruits, things that have strong antioxidants. Pomegranates, blueberries, strawberries, raspberry, as long as they're organic, because it's crazy. You know, these things are sprayed very. And they're. And they're all. They're part of what's called the dirty dozen. You have to watch those too. But as long as they're organic and they're clean, lean meats are good. As long as they're lean because they provide the basis of proteins, amino acids, which our body functions on, are really good. Specific fishes. Fish you have to be careful with, too. Some people say I stay away from it because the ocean's plagued with mercury and there's a bunch of other issues. Parasites. But eat clean, organic, and read what you're doing. And then ultimately, what it boils down to personally, I think is how it makes you feel if you ate something that you don't. If somebody told you that some something is healthy and then you eat it and you didn't feel well, then it's not for you. Like, for instance, I don't tolerate almonds. And I noticed, I found out actually later, because I love almonds, that it's actually the skin. So I can do a Marcona almond perfectly fine. But if I do the other ones, my gut messes up and I actually get body aches. Which is what's weird too, from it, because I don't tolerate it. And there's certain fishes I know that I can't tolerate either. I don't eat them. I stay away from them. But, you know, there's a lot of good. Eggs are fantastic. Yeah.
- [27:07]
A
And I love that you said that. And I learned that with the almonds as well several years ago. But yeah, I mean, I was kind of curious too, if, if there was any, like, comparison there in terms of is protein better or fats better, are carbs better when it comes to your immune system or is it just really based on the food? Not so much the, the macro or micronutrient of it.
- [27:29]
B
You know, what's, what's the funniest thing about it is you want your immune system to be active, but you don't want your immune system to be overactive. Yep. And this is sort of something crazy. So we have. We work with natural killer cells and we will collect people's blood to work with it. And the unusual aspect is a lot of people talk about keto diets, and keto diets are great, don't get me wrong. But when I get blood from an individual that's in ketosis, what does ketosis sort of do? It works great in the context of maintaining health, but it also puts your system, your immune system a little bit in a quiescent state. So I can't grow cells really well. But when I ask somebody, and we've tested this before, to. Before I collect your blood, I need you to do me a favor and have some yogurt, Greek yogurt, have basically some sourdough toast. You can. Or bring in some good complex carbohydrates into the picture. Then I'll grab your blood. Then I have a little bit more of an active immune system and I can collect better. So it's something that we've noticed, you know, with it, it's. It is diet specific. Individuals that are. Do too much carnivore in the context of the immune system, too. You have to watch that. Although it's done one important thing, you will have people with autoimmune diseases that'll go strictly carnivore. Those people that go strictly carnivore with autoimmune diseases do really well because it quies the immune system. Settles it down. Yeah, yeah. But if you want something that's gonna make your immune system more active, you need to introduce complex carbs and good carbs to it. So going with that, I'm not specific to any specific type of diet. Like, for instance, keto carnivore. They're all different and they're dependent on you. I eat all foods, all different types. I switch it up, I'll go different depending on, you know, what I want. And the reason why I'm not specific on being vegetarian on ketogenic, on any of those is because when I looked at senescence and when I looked at immune function in patients from blood, I've seen that if I have an individual that is on ketosis for too long and I pull his blood, and this makes complete sense, I pull their blood, their NK cells are not that active. But it's like that for a reason. And it's like that for a good reason. Because the immune system is somewhat quiescent. It's healthy, but it's quiescent. But when I want to remove and eliminate senescence, I need something that's a little bit more active, that I can grow. That's why I tell Individuals, when we're gonna go collect their blood is I tell them, please do me a favor and eat something like an organic sourdough bread, which is the only type of bread that I would eat here in the United States. Cuz the other ones serve.
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A
They're bad.
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B
They're really bad for you all. A lot of stuff here in the US is really bad for you. Eat some eggs, eat some complex carbohydrates, ones that are good, ones that are organic, ones that are not bad. I talk about, you know, the oatmeals are bad. Stuff like that is people don't, do not understand even. You know, I went to, I went to a conference on autism and pediatric disorders and it's crazy what I learned there because a lot of people, including me, I thought that like grain rice and all these rices were good. No, they're loaded with arsenic. I tell you to stay away from those. The only type of rice you should be eating for kids that have autism, that have cerebral palsy, have, you know, all these different issues are like California grade white rice or sushi grade white rice. That's the extent of it. You know, those. But those, if you think of the context of longevity, those are, those are not good for you because they convert to sugars a lot too. So that's why we discuss avoiding them. As we age, we discuss avoiding them. But I'm more focused on eating everything, switching it up. For me personally, I can't stay on, you know, vegetarian diet. I can't stay on a carnivore diet. I don't feel well on all of them. I switch it up, I can't eat almonds. I found out I can't eat almonds. I removed the skin from them. I found out after I can eat Marcona because I love almonds. It would cause me pain, caused me gut issues. Some, some fishes. I don't eat lean meats. I love lean meats. I'll eat them as long as they're clean. They're relative, you know, they're good for you. And it's the way I feel. Good. And then the big thing is always like we talked about earlier is stop eating at a certain timeframe. Yeah. To go to sleep.
- [32:14]
A
Yeah. Oh yeah. And I found some blockage in my heart that I talked to you about on the phone prior. And I implemented pomegranate juice to try to help reverse plaque or at least stabilize and help. But pomegranates also. And I know this from like I told you, I worked with timeline, which made me Study cellular health. But the pomegranates then relates to urolith and a, which is something that I use and have come to the understanding of stimulating autophagy. So we talked about, you know, different aspects of cellular health and care. Do you think pomegranate serve that purpose well too? And cellular health, aside from our immune system. I'm looking this more on a cellular side. Is that something that you would recommend for cellular health?
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B
100%. Because, I mean, I know people that just focus on pomegranate.
- [32:59]
A
Yeah.
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B
Because it's so high in antioxidants. Oxidation is what causes inflammation.
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A
Right.
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B
And we all know that. And this is a preemptive cursor to inflammation is oxidation, the formation of free radicals. If you reduce them, which is what berries and especially pomegranate does, you will keep the immune system that it has an ability to do what it needs to do.
- [33:23]
A
I love it. Here's the thing though, that sucks, like you said, is a lot of these are dirty dozen or they're sprayed and it's like you're. You're eating these that are supposed to serve you a purpose and they're actually causing you an adverse effect if you're not eating the right ones. Right, Right. So we got to be careful on when you and I say that and I and I always preface it just like you do. Make sure they're organic, make sure they're as clean as you can possibly get. Because otherwise you're really actually causing more problem by what you think you were doing. Right. You know, and it sucks that we're involved in that and around it. But one of the things I wanted to ask you because you brought this up about looking at blood work. What? Because everything I do revolves around data, blood panels, everything. I do a lot of hormone optimization. So if we're looking at judging or gauging a healthy or unhealthy immune system, what blood markers are we looking for that could potentially be off that might indicate your immune system screwed up?
- [34:15]
B
I published a paper in 2015 on this on aging and the immune system. And the three important ones are. One of them's not that easy to access, but you can get. It is high sensitivity crp, very easy to test. Probably the most important one, the second one is tumor necrosis factor alpha. Tumor necrosis factor alpha is indicative of a chronic inflammatory state, a state of not functioning correctly. That's why actually there's a drug out there for autoimmune diseases that cuts that off. The problem with cutting tumor necrosis factor out is basically alpha. Out is you put yourself in an immune suppressed state, you put yourself more susceptible to the big C word cancer we talked about earlier. And that's bad one, the last one is Interleukin 6. The IL6 is a lot harder to, to, to test too. But you can go out there, there's tests available that you can actually look at it because those three are indicative of age associated diseases. And there's thousands, there's a ton of papers out there, published, peer reviewed data on thousands of patients that if these are inflamed, you are either in or you're heading towards a neurodegenerative disease or a cardiovascular disease.
- [35:27]
A
Yeah, it's wild how every single thing that you're looking for revolves around inflammation. It seems like every single problem. If you're looking for an indicator that the high sensitivity C reactive protein tells you a lot.
- [35:40]
B
Yep, it tells you a ton. And there's, there, you know, other simple ones is you can look at a sedimentation rate, you can look at fibrinogen and you can look at homocysteine. Homocysteine is too, a big one that, that people don't spend enough time testing and looking at too. If you look at those, all of those together, you got a complete package of some good, good blood work. And then the other thing is understanding is that if they tell you you're within range, where are you at within that range? Because blood exams have this massive range of individuals that are really young and individuals that are really old. Well, guess what, if you're 40 years old and, or 45 years old and you're close to the top of that range, something's not quite right, you shouldn't be there.
- [36:21]
A
And the way they judge these ranges anymore, once again, because I do a lot of stuff with testosterone for men and women and some of these ranges are just out of fricking control. It makes me mad. I mean, telling somebody that you're functionable or doing good with like 190 or 200 testosterone level is just out of line. And I'm wondering how do they, how do they gauge? And because you know this, they're constantly changing the ratios and where you fall, how are they gauging this and coming up with what falls into being acceptable in range?
- [36:50]
B
Well, I mean it's, it's all age. It's, it's, they've gone through all the way from, you know, pediatric adults and they come up with the reference range and that's where they'll gauge you between, well, you're somewhere between here, you're healthy based on these individuals being relatively healthy. Anything out of this range, you're not healthy. But exactly what you just said. I don't want to be a 50 or a 6. I'm a 6. I'm 60 years old. I don't want to be 60 and have the testosterone of 150 because they're telling me you're within your age. But I want to be feeling like my testosterone is when I was 30. Yeah, when I was 35, 40, like that's when I want to be. I want to be in that range. And that's a healthier range, I believe for me to, you know, sustain that youthfulness. That's. It's the same thing with the testing. You want to be in a better range. It's one. You want it a little bit more, you know, pinpointed in that median area where, you know, safer bet to look at.
- [37:42]
A
Okay, I'm going to shift here, I'm going to ask you a number here. And I'm sure you know it. And this is one of the things that just fascinated the hell out of me when I really put my efforts into studying more biology and cellular biology. How many cells do we have in our body?
- [37:57]
B
I don't know the exact number. It's trillions.
- [37:59]
A
It's trillions. Yeah.
- [38:00]
B
It's insane if it's an insane number of cells because if you think of just in, in blood flow apoptosis, natural cell Death happens about 300 billion times a day. So it's trillions and trillions. I believe in the brain alone, a trillion cells, there's an insane amount of cells. And the complex processes of cells in our body that happens on a daily basis to maintain that appropriate temperature, that appropriate pH.
- [38:34]
A
It's this crazy when I started to look at science more of like this was God's design as opposed to me misconstruing everything that it was. And I realized the intricacy of how detailed our body is put together and understanding that structure and what it goes through on a second by second basis, I don't even want to say a daily basis, like every second, from the heart to the cells to everything else. I mean, it is absolutely mind blowing. And learning about cell structure and understanding their health is everything. And that's why we talked about, you know, different cellular health aspects. And people don't understand what a cell goes through, how it dies or how it becomes a zombie cell or sticks around, and how when those are off and that function is off, we're off. Right, so like for instance, mitochondria. How important is mitochondria as part of a cell? And do me this because I'm curious because that, that's kind of the big thing is to talk about mitochondria and I think rightfully so. But what, what are the most important parts of a cell? Because to me the cellular membrane would be one of the most important parts. I mean, isn't that protecting it? So what, please break down a cell structure and what's the most important parts and how we keep it safe?
- [39:43]
B
I can't. It's really hard to say what's the most important part because the cell has a machinery in it and the cell has to produce proteins, has to be able to produce functional signaling, functional cues, you know, these little particles that are called endosomes inside of a cell that a cell produces a signal for another cell and it's enveloped in a small type of a membrane and then it's shot out. And this is how we get long distance signaling from one cell to another cell. That's really important. That's the importance of the cell membrane because the cell membrane is that lipid bilayer. But the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. Mitochondria is really, really important. The ribosomes are really, really important. The endoplasmic reticular is really, really important. All of it has functional function for, for protein and for machinery to sustain life. So the purpose of, you know, the cells have to turn over on a regular basis because when a cell doesn't become non functional or if it's not functioning correctly, it has to naturally turn over. And this is apoptosis. You know, it, it has to transpire. It transpires on a daily basis because it has to, it needs the correct cells to function appropriately.
- [40:56]
A
Every single cell has all of these important components and structure and we got trillions of so to think about cell to function and how many moving parts there are and how many things we have to be aware of. So how difficult is it for us for the duration of our life to keep cellular health? I mean, how difficult is that? How important is that as we age?
- [41:18]
B
It's one of the most important things, you know, that's why a lot of times we go back to diet is, you know, one of the only things that preserves longevity and that we know in the context of telomeres is basically caloric restriction. And if you stop eating, you slow down cell division. Believe it or not, it even decreases igf, which causes cells to proliferate. It slows down that process. If you think of animal species that live long time, what do those animals do? Like turtles, Darwin turtles. These turtles basically sleep a ton. They eat very little, and this preserves a long lifespan for them. Slow and steady, just like the turtle. Slow and steady. It's very, very similar in the human being of slow down internally. I'm not talking about stopping exercise or anything. I'm talking about slowing down internally, what's transpiring. And that's done by eating correctly, watching what you're consuming on a regular basis, sleeping correctly, because sleep is the ability to recover. You have to understand that aspect of it. People that complain to me about spending money on mattresses, I'm like, no, double down on having the best mattress you can get and the best sleep you can get, because you need that for recovery. That is part of longevity. That's part of living well. You're not going to recover if you don't sleep well, if you don't eat well, you're not going to recover correctly. You're going to feel like crap because it affects your immune system.
- [42:50]
A
And I've come to understand this by being a person that never takes a break or never rests is how important that is to your vitality, your inflammation, everything. So spending money on the mattress would make the most sense because you use it the most forever. So, yeah, man. Some of the points you bring up may seem obvious at times, but they're the most important things. And you hit the nail like every single time. I love it, dude. I love it. So that one more part of cells before we move on, because I know you had some new studies that you wanted to talk about, but I would just like to give a small little breakdown. You know, there's. There's supplements we can take for cellular health. There's things that we can do, but I think the understanding is what's missing, right? And everybody just wants to take a supplement to fix this or fix that. Just a simple, you know, we know, like fasting, you said, stimulates autophagy. How do we stimulate mitophagy? How do we stop senescence or mitigate it? You know, what can we do to take control early on? Because I'm a big. Try to tackle this early, before it gets too late guy. So give us some, some of your plans or insights on how to keep this going.
- [44:00]
B
Being proactive versus being reactive.
- [44:02]
A
Yes.
- [44:03]
B
Basically, important aspect is fasting is good because fasting activates autophagy and it gives the body a break. Autophagy gets Rid of those bad signals, those bad things that are released by those zombie cells, those senescent cells that are there that cause more havoc. The reason why we know that those signals are bad is, for instance, in a petri dish and in our lab we've done this experiment. If I mix a zombie, this senescent cell with a very young cell and I mix it together, what I get the physical aspect, what's called the phenotype, the feature I get from the new cells are old cells. And it's because those signalers are causing the young cells to become old.
- [44:46]
A
I see.
- [44:47]
B
So if we can eliminate that aspect of some of those signals, which. Diet helps tremendously. Exercise helps tremendously. There's a lot of things that you can actually do on a daily basis that really doesn't cost much money. That you can slow down that process of the formation of senescence, that feeling that you feel bad. You know, these type of things. Even breathing exercises, you know, what are you doing when you do breathing exercise? Or what are you doing when you're sprinting? Why do you feel so well after you walk or you've sprinted or whatever? You know why? Because you've increased blood flow through your body and you've increased your intake of oxygen.
- [45:29]
A
I'm going to give you some. I would say rapid fire. I know it's going to take you a second to answer these, but I'm going to give you some situations and scenarios of. Of either things we consume and. Or do and practice every day. And you tell me how it relates to good or bad. Like what the. What it does to our cellular health and maybe in. And. And our immune system. Please. Because I doubt this would be highly beneficial for people that are doing this.
- [45:54]
B
Perfect.
- [45:55]
A
Alcohol consumption.
- [45:57]
B
Horrible. It's actually cytotoxic, cardiac toxic more than anything else. But it's very cytotoxic for you. It affects your metabolic function in the liver, which directly, indirectly affects your immune system. Really bad for you. And it affects your sleep. You might pass out, fall asleep quickly. You are going to wake up, you're going to feel horrible. Tops the hell out of the liver.
- [46:18]
A
Smoking, let's say cigarettes first.
- [46:21]
B
Cigarettes are basically toxic. Completely toxic to the lung and then completely toxic to the vasculature system, which then indirectly affects the immune system. Also smoking in general. I'm even talking about vaping.
- [46:33]
A
That's right.
- [46:34]
B
Vaping is bad.
- [46:35]
A
All of it.
- [46:35]
B
And any type. You're burning something and you're inhaling it, it's bad.
- [46:39]
A
Would that go for marijuana? As well.
- [46:42]
B
Smoking marijuana can also be bad for you too.
- [46:44]
A
Okay?
- [46:45]
B
It is. And there's more and more studies now coming out with that. Yes.
- [46:48]
A
Yeah. I was one of those that used to try to tell myself it was okay when I finally realized that was bullshit. But, you know, that was. That's one of those things you convince yourself because you're doing something. So I was curious about your thought on that. What about pharmaceutical drugs? And I'm talking, We're talking. Let me clarify that. The pharmaceutical drugs that are narcotic type drugs like your Vicodins, your Percocets, you know, things that people abuse, Xanax, some of those types of things.
- [47:15]
B
Horrible for you. Dependent, temporary, master problem. Don't deal with any problem and cause a ton of secondary effects. We talk about secondary effects. We talk about liver toxicity, we talk about kidney toxicity, cardiovascular toxicity also in the vast majority of all of those, some pharmaceuticals are okay, but the vast majority are out there are basically relatively, you know, they're bad for you. Some people have to be on them because of specific diseases. And it's ultimately a balance of quality of life or not. But you have to look at that balance of what is the trade off. For instance, in the context of autoimmune diseases, the majority of them suppress the immune system. The secondary effect of suppressing the immune system is basically cancer, other infectious diseases, et cetera, et cetera. Pick your poison.
- [48:02]
A
Tylenol.
- [48:03]
B
Bad because I got a little story. Well, bad because. So it may possibly resolve a headache, but it is very kidney toxic and liver toxic. So much so that I'm not going to name any companies. But I remember years ago, I was at a big march in a foreign country and I was told by somebody, we live off of individuals that take Tylenol and ibuprofen.
- [48:35]
A
Oh, man.
- [48:37]
B
And it's because it wrecks your kidneys on your organs. Sunlight, phenomenal for you, phenomenal for you. One of the best things you can take, you just have to watch in moderation, especially as you age. You really have to be cautious with that aspect of it. But sunlight, there's nothing more Important than specific UVs and the ones in the morning, regardless of it not being sunny out, get out there during daybreak. It's the best form of energy you can actually get.
- [49:05]
A
Daily walking.
- [49:07]
B
Oh, it's. There is nothing better than walking.
- [49:10]
A
I agree.
- [49:10]
B
Period. There is nothing better. Before, like, you'd get, you know, you'd get back surgery, you'd have whatever they'd be, oh, no, you got to be. You got to lay down for a while. Now it's a complete opposite. It heals you so much quicker. Get out there and walk. If you have pain, it increases blood flow, it helps healing.
- [49:24]
A
Walk.
- [49:25]
B
Walking is the best thing you can do.
- [49:27]
A
I walk a lot, but you know, it's four or five miles a day. I don't say everybody has to do that, but when I made that change because in my head I was always like, oh, I gotta do all this hardcore, you know, run, run and all of this, dude, it's changed my life. I mean really, it really, really has. And multitude of reasons why not. And the movement and everything is one. But the ability for me to then really relate with the surroundings in the earth. I spend, you know, prayer time doing that or whatever. And that's not for everybody, fine. But that for me, it's, it's a, like a decompression from everything that's around me. So it's soothing to the soul on top of the.
- [50:02]
B
That. That makes two of us. I was in the military. I would run. I was a combat engineer, demolition specialist in the army. I would run six to 15 miles a day. Just range a day.
- [50:14]
A
Yeah.
- [50:14]
B
When I left the military, I still ran, ran, ran. At some juncture you have to stop because it breaks down the joints. The switch is exactly what you said. For instance, I have a wonderful, I love the hell out of my dog. I have a great Doberman. They're crazy active dogs. He forces me every morning to get out there. I live in the hills. We're, you know, walking, running on a daily basis, hiking through the hills. It completely. It's the best way to start off your day. Clears your mind, you know, get that fresh air, get that atmosphere. Look up in the sky, you're alive. Touch the ground, get the grounding aspect of it. The best way to start off your day. I talk to my, my mom all the time. Like I tell her, mom, did you go outside today? Did you do some breathing exercises? It's going to shift your complete mindset and you're going to feel so much better.
- [51:04]
A
I have a big smile because I love animals so much. That's why I have the huge smile. Last one. Gratitude.
- [51:11]
B
There's nothing more important than being grateful. I mean, and, and, and, and our, and our common friend. I love when he came up with the. And it's funny because people don't know what the hell vitamin G is.
- [51:19]
A
You know what's funny? I was moderating a panel at Biohackers World and I told them, I said, you know, you've given me this. Now I'm stealing. I gave a speech on vitamin G and the importance of gratitude because I was a panel discussing what can you do every day that's like not supposed to cost you a bunch of money or something that's easy to implement that you're not doing. And for me, that is number one.
- [51:39]
B
Yep, it's number one. Yeah.
- [51:41]
A
So. Okay, I know we're winding down. Can you. Can you give me a little insight? Because you kind of teased a little bit before we started talking about some new studies that you were working on that curious about.
- [51:52]
B
Yeah, we. So we're, we're. We're companies focus on, you know, regenerative medicine, cell therapies. We have multiple clinical studies and autoimmune diseases. And we're now working with the signaling cues of the different cells which we have a phenomenal topical that works in cosmetics, works phenomenal in orthopedics that we're actually going into clinical studies on too. But we are now working on the next level. Like these natural killer cells that we briefly mentioned. We're producing the signaling cues from them and we're seeing some exciting news in the context of. Because it'll make it a lot more affordable for everybody in the context of senescence. So we're seeing some really, really exciting news with that, including seeing, for instance, which would be a game changer. We talked a little bit about going out in the sun. If you're exposed too much, you can possibly get a melanoma. We're seeing some of these guidance cues wiping out melanoma. And it would just be as simple as the context is putting this stuff on skin, getting melanoma. And the skin has to regenerate on its own. Wow. Versus getting somebody to carve, which is what they do. They're removing chunks of your skin out when you have this. So we have some pretty exciting stuff that we're, you know, we've been testing and. And looking at and it seems heading in the right direction.
- [53:07]
A
How long do you think something like that to be available?
- [53:10]
B
Quite a while or quite a while. Really quite a while. But we. Our cell therapeutics are study that's furthest along. We're hoping with good results because we're in what's called the Phase 2, 3 clinical study transition study is within the next couple years we might have an approval.
- [53:25]
A
Really?
- [53:26]
B
Yeah. So you've got optimism, man.
- [53:28]
A
At least I.
- [53:28]
B
Yes, we are because we're seeing a phenomenal safety profile. No adverse events, which is fantastic, which is rare. And we're seeing some really good clinical benefit where I found an angel many, many years ago that helped fund this entire study. She suffered from the disease. She's actually seen at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. And she's in remission of disease now for four years, which she was in bad shape when I first met her, off of all her meds, immunosuppressants, all of that with this particular type of autoimmune disease. So it's. We're getting some promising things in the context of cell therapeutics.
- [54:05]
A
I love it. I love to hear it. Before we stop, I want to ask. And I want to do immune system first, cellular health second. So. And I want to preface this because we always have to be careful. Supplements are supplements, meaning they're used to supplement what we discussed. The things that we discussed first are the most important. But let's look at this from a secondary perspective as the enhancement. What type of supplements would you recommend someone to look at that would maybe be staples for you for boosting the immune system?
- [54:36]
B
N. Acetylcysteine. I think it's beyond important because it helps clear oxidative stress.
- [54:43]
A
Say.
- [54:43]
B
Good.
- [54:43]
A
I take that.
- [54:44]
B
Okay, I take that, too. Yes. It's one of the biggest important ones. It's crazy because you OD on what we just talked about. Tylenol or ibuprofen. You go to the hospital, this is what they're going to give you.
- [54:54]
A
Wow. Okay.
- [54:55]
B
To clear it. Sweet. That's. That's one of the important ones. Vitamin D is critical. I don't care how much time. In combination with Hasan with K. Yeah, you got it. K2.
- [55:07]
A
Yeah.
- [55:08]
B
It's got to be in combination because. And especially good for women because it helps sequester calcium into bone. So it's really, really important in that combination. Not on its own. You gotta watch it. Really, really important. I take a particular one that I love, and I swear by it, and I have two of my family members on it, and it's. It's designed to help basically increase or help the vasculature aspect, you know, of it. And it's a particular supplement that it's. That was the name of this.
- [55:41]
A
We talked about this when we had a call. I remember you talking about arterial cell. Yes, I. I still have it up on my computer to order, and I
- [55:49]
B
never did arterial cell. Yeah, well, I. You know, my mom started taking it. It helped her blood pressure. I started taking it, and it helped lower my blood pressure a little bit, which my blood pressure was fine. But I helped lower it a little bit more. My sister's now on it. She's getting the same exact thing from it. Several of my colleagues. And it helps with the vasculature, the lining, help control all the aspects of it. It works really well. It's another one that works well. Another big one that I think is really important. I would have to say is, you know, some people are naysayers. I like vitamin C because I don't think you get enough of it. If you can get it naturally, then it's way better. Yeah. Go with that type of approach. It's really good for you. What are other ones? I take? Some people don't like it, but if you can get a good Omega 3, I'm all about taking omegas. You have to be careful. A lot of them are rancid.
- [56:35]
A
Yeah, I'm really a SIPA dude. So I have it covered on my end.
- [56:39]
B
Yeah. So you got it. Yeah. Correct.
- [56:41]
A
I'm a. I'm.
- [56:41]
B
I'm a big taker. I take them too. I use a specific brand that. That I like that I know is not rancid. It doesn't cause any gut issues. If you're taking something and you're burping it up, you shouldn't be taking it. No, no, you shouldn't be taking it. And then what are some of the other ones that.
- [56:55]
A
Anything cellular wise that you recommend?
- [56:58]
B
Like.
- [56:58]
A
Like I brought up urolithin A or senolytics or anything like that. Or anything that you recommend.
- [57:03]
B
I just go with food with that. For me, I go with food with anything like that. I think important foods that you want to take for immune function. You know, one of the good ones is actually greatest colostrum. And not enough people take it or do anything with.
- [57:17]
A
Glad you brought that up.
- [57:18]
B
It helps increase natural killer cell activity. That's proven. Like we said, we talked about yogurts. Anything that deals with helping the gut and absorption is key.
- [57:28]
A
I use a shitload of Greek yogurt. So that's a good thing. Yeah.
- [57:31]
B
So do I now. I do too. A lot. Yeah.
- [57:33]
A
Full fat. You know how many years ate low fat Greek yogurt and jail ruined it? And not only does it taste like. But it's not. It's stripped of everything that you need.
- [57:41]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [57:42]
A
No, I love that. And it seems like that pops up in everything and everybody I ever talk to that comes on here. Yogurt's brought up every rip. When I talk about something that we're eating for health.
- [57:53]
B
Yep.
- [57:54]
A
In some way. Especially when it relates to the gut.
- [57:56]
B
Yep. Yeah. It works fantastic.
- [57:58]
A
I love it.
- [57:58]
B
That was good. It makes you feel good. It's a great way to start. It's a great way, actually, to start your day and end your day. If you want something. You know what? If you. If you want your something sweet, throw some berries in it and have it at night, like, whatever. If you have that sweet craving, you know, throw some berries in it and go for it.
- [58:14]
A
You know why I'm laughing? Because you know what I do every day when I stopped eating at night, first thing in the morning before I go for a walk, because I don't eat breakfast, I have a. Like a half a serving of Greek yogurt, and it has some blueberries in it with a little protein powder, and that's the last thing I have before I go to bed.
- [58:29]
B
Yep.
- [58:29]
A
Every night.
- [58:30]
B
And you'll sleep better, too.
- [58:31]
A
I do.
- [58:32]
B
Yeah. Because you got some carbs in there that help you sleep.
- [58:34]
A
Yeah.
- [58:35]
B
Better. Yep. Yep.
- [58:35]
A
That. That's awesome. I love it. Well, I like, this is a personal invite to come back because we didn't get through a fraction of what I wanted. But when they're this good, you don't. The invite is there. I hope you'll come back.
- [58:47]
B
Absolutely. Come back out this way.
- [58:50]
A
I knew. And I told you this before we started. I was really excited to talk to you, and I said that in the car right here. My wife can attest to that. And this was even better than I expected it to be.
- [58:59]
B
Awesome. Thank you.
- [59:00]
A
Thank you.
- [59:00]
B
It's a pleasure and honor to be here and grateful to actually be here, because you have to be grateful. People do not understand when you're driving on the street and you think you have it bad, look at somebody else and see how bad they might have it. Understand. I tell my kids on a daily basis, stay blessed, be blessed. And if you think things are bad for you, look around you and be grateful for what you have to. You have to have that. That mindset.
- [59:29]
A
I want to say this in closing, and I say this. I have come to the practice to thank God when I leave the gym, because it's a. It's a grace to be able to work out and do what I love to do or to sometimes when I just leave the store or something because I was able to buy the stuff that we needed and the things that you take for granted every single day that you don't realize until you get sick or something that comes up and you can't go do it how it sucks. So bad without it. You should be thankful for the littlest, the smallest things because those accumulate into what you do every single day into your whole life. And if you can't be grateful for the little things, then you just don't deserve anything.
- [60:03]
B
Yeah, I agree.
- [60:04]
A
You just don't. So thank you Dr. Pompa, for the introduction to my doctor tell everybody where to follow you, where to find you, and link it all in the description.
- [60:14]
B
My I mean you can check me out on my Instagram, which is Dr. Gonzalez, Ph.D. restem.com you can actually have a look at us. And then also rehealth.com is one of our X US entities.
- [60:26]
A
Excellent. Like I said, thank you. This was freaking awesome and I really enjoyed this to the highest extent. So thanks for coming. And that wraps up another one, everybody. I hope that you take a ton from this. We're going to come back for another part two and maybe part three. Who knows. So that being said, stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli signing off. Ra.