← The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
Episode #49 Featuring Michelle Chalfant! Finding your TRUE SELF! The Adult Chair Model: Tapping into the power inside of you to transform your life, Using triggers as gifts, Accountability and more!
01:02:29
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Today's episode is sponsored by my good friends at Timeline. Timeline is now offering the world's first ever longevity gummies, powered by Might appear. You've heard me talk about the importance of cellular health and our mitochondria, which is why I have time. As my favorite and most trusted sponsor, these are the only clinically proven Urolithin a gummies for strength and healthy aging. We may be living longer lifespans, but are we truly living better lives? What if the key is not just adding years to your life, but life to your years? This all starts at the cellular level. As we age, our mitochondrial health starts to decline. And one of the keys to living longer and healthier is keeping our mitochondria healthy and strong and might appear targets. This for us. Take of your health now and live the life that you not only desire, but you also deserve. As a gift to all my listeners, you can save 20% off today by going to timeline.comdylan to get started. That's timeline.comdylan. i assure you your cells will thank you. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Jelli Podcast. So today is a very, very, very happy day for me. I have one of the most exuberant and joyful people that I've ever had the pleasure of interviewing on my show today to present to you. I'm going to try to do her justice by my intro here. I can't say enough about here, but I'm going to go ahead and do my best. So she is a licensed therapist. She's a holistic life coach. She's an author, and she's committed to helping people break free from limitations and discover their true selves, which we're going to talk a ton about today. She's the creator of the Adult Chair model. And the Adult Chair Model combines simple psychology with grounded spirituality to inspire personal transformation. And she has an amazing podcast, the Michelle Shellfant Show Live from the adult chair. 10 million downloads. Actually, more than 10 million downloads. So that tells you enough about how amazing that she is. She's got a new book we're going to talk about, and there's going to be a ton of information that we're going to go over that's going to help you become a better you. So, my friends, welcome my guest today, Michelle Chalfont.
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A
She's Dylan. I'm listening. I'm like, wow, that girl sounds pretty amazing. When we hear our own bio, it's like, whoa. Wow. Okay.
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B
Yeah. You know, I always try to give everybody their due. Sometimes I don't do my best, but it, it can be humbling when you hear it. I bet people do it for me, and I'm like, dude, I, I. You're exaggerating big time, but thank you. But, you know, when people see you that way and there's a reason why, and I don't. One thing my viewers know and, you know, I don't. I don't sugarcoat or exaggerate. I just give it what it is. So you deserve all of that and then some.
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A
Thank you. I really appreciate you. Yeah, really appreciate you.
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B
Well, I appreciate your time, and I know that we're on a tight one today. We had a slight recording issue earlier, so. And I want to utilize all of this time with you, so I want to learn about you first. Because, you know, I think with all of us, when and for most of us, especially when we have careers, like you have or like I have something we saw or something that maybe occurred in our life, and sometimes it's negative, sometimes it's positive, but there's some kind of scenario or situation that we really reflect or reflect back on. That said, okay. That's what shaped me for what I'm doing today. So what was your either singular moment or moments that led up to lead you into this life that you've chosen to, to lead now?
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A
Such a great question. I'd have to say. It's interesting. I don't remember ever having, like, this big spiritual awakening. I honestly remember being a little girl always having this feeling like I was here to do something and I didn't know what it was.
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B
Yep.
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You know what I mean? Like, I'm, like, I'm not sure what I'm here to do, but I'm supposed to be helping people in some way, and I wasn't quite sure what that was. And even being in middle school and high school, I remember, you know, my friends and acquaintances would come up and say, hey, can you give me some advice on this or can you help me? So that led me to, of course, right on my path. And I believe that people, places, things, events really are lined up so that we do become who we're here to become, whatever that, that that thing might be. So, yeah, so for me, I always felt this internal drive to, to I, I always had questions. I still do this to this day. I ask a lot of questions, which is probably why I enjoy podcasting, because I love asking a lot of questions. And I go for the depth. I'm a Scorpio. I go deep. I'm like, I want to Know, give me all the juice, give me all the dirt. But anyway, kind of like you, I'm sure. Yeah. So I've always felt this drive, though nothing magical happened. I just, it was in me. I feel like I was born with this desire to. And I still ask questions like, okay, what is this thing we call God universe? And then also that was one question I've always had since a little girl, you know, and then the other side of the coin was, and how do I. How do we really transform our lives? You know, I don't like that I do this. How do I change it to that? So I realized looking back on my life path, how it really shaped me to become who I am today in so many ways. And I can get into a little bit of family stuff if you want, but we certainly don't have to go there.
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B
So. One of the things that I think is important and especially for someone that does the kind of work that you do, is we do ask like the why, the how. And I'm a big person and getting into details, like I always ask questions, I think that the, the stigma that got put out there for a while was like, oh, if you're asking questions and you're questioning the science, you're this bad, evil person. And it's. To me, it's the complete polar opposite. All of the people that figured out all the things we have, I don't know, from electricity to astronomy, everything that comes science wise, it's ask, ask, ask, learn and see what's changing. Because look, my argument is if things didn't change or we didn't question anything, then how would we have gone from VHS to CDs to, you know, to having MP3s to now streaming? You know, it's a continuous evolving of knowledge and question asking. So I think what I appreciate about you is that desire to ask and learn. And when you talk about finding true self and who am I? It sounds so basic or so I mean kind of to some probably ridiculous, but I. When I like, I know that I've taken the time to do that. And I'm curious your thoughts when you kind of hit that part where you, it clicks, where you're like, I think I know who I am. What does that feel like and what does it take to get there? I understand it's different for each person, but in your world, so to speak, what does it take to get there and what it feel like when it finally starts to resonate.
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A
That's a great question. I just got to say thank you. Question first of all, I don't think we ever get there. And if we got there, I think we would die. I mean, I think that's the end of the journey for us, honestly. I think that we are here to continue to evolve and continue to have an understanding and idea of who we are.
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B
Yes.
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As we evolve. And every time we get to that new level, it's like, oh, wait, this is who I think I am. And then, guess what? We keep expanding and growing. Then we reach a new level, and then a new level. So you're. So that's the first part. That's the way I want to answer that question honestly. How did I know that I. And again, I'm going to just. If I can share this.
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B
Yeah.
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I'd gone from a life of, you know, Italian family, Rochester, New York, enmeshed all of this kind of thing. No boundaries, alcoholism. In my extended family, we lived all together. That's what Italians do. And people that are very ethnic in a big lake house every summer. It was beautiful and fun, but also dysfunctional and traumatic in many ways. But that caused me to put a lot of masks over myself, over my. The masks that we wear create this false self, and that's who we think we are. So we go through life honestly, I was somewhat miserable, if not a lot miserable, suffering with functional depression and anxiety. Codependency. Big time. I mean, if you Google or put Wikipedia. And what is codependency? There is Michelle Chalfont. Right. But I'm. I'm a recovered codependent. God bless. But I keep. I keep. Again, that's still a journey. It still pops up once in a while. But anyway, what I noticed was in doing my own work, and I love doing my personal work, I am challenged by it, and I freaking love it. Because there's that feeling you get on the other side of it. And how do I know? Like, well, how do we know when we've reached this level? And again, it's always a new level. It doesn't end. How do we know, though, that we've reached this level of living more in our true self than in our false self? Let's face it, nobody's a hundred percent in their. In their true self.
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B
No.
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Or we'd be in the graveyard. I mean, it's just at the end of the line for us. Right. I knew because I started to become more comfortable in my own skin. My self talk went way down. Boundaries. This is interesting. I was able to start setting healthier boundaries because all of these things are like, these It's a culmination of learning how to love yourself, accept yourself for who you are, not needing to change, not needing to be anybody else. And when you do that, it's like, I think I'm okay in this costume, that I'm wearing, this human suit, if you will. That's all it is. And when we can look in the mirror and go, I think I'm okay, or go out to a networking thing or a party or an event, or just be in public at the grocery store and you're walking through the store and you actually are comfortable in your own skin. To me, that tells me that's a level that you've reached of understanding and experiencing your true self.
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B
Yep. I love that so much. You know, there's several things that you brought up there that I want to go into because I feel like a lot of the things that hold people back from getting to where you're talking is accountability and looking in the mirror and saying, you screwed up, but it's okay, take the accountability and now, you know, and fix it. But a lot of people and I. And I feel like this is so much more prevalent and it's kind of like media driven and it's kind of almost becoming like culturally driven in our society now where everybody's got a crutch or an excuse that's easy to fall back on. Well, it's because she was a woman or. Well, it's because they're this race or. Well, it's because they're this age or they're. It's always something. And I am. I'm not old by any stretch of the imagination, but I have an old school mentality and way of thinking and I feel like the more accountable you are and the more. When you brought up that made me like go back and remember when my life changed was stop the self talk and stop talking about yourself so much and start talking about others. Relate with others. Give them examples of your. Whatever it is that falls into the conversation. But absorb what other people are saying, think about others, create a real conversation, a conversation between two people, not one. Right.
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A
Yeah.
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So do you feel like that's a prevalent problem for a lot of people that they have to overcome, then that challenge of not being so into yourself and not even realizing it.
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Yeah. You mentioned two great points. You also talked about that inner critic, that voice in your head. But also we need to learn how to become what I call ex. It's called. What I call it is masterful listening.
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Yes.
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And we don't do that well, as humans, we are not trained. That's what my book, the Adult Chair, is all about. This is the manual that we should have had when we were growing up. And unfortunately, our parents did not have it. So how in the world are we supposed to know how to live as healthy, functioning adults? How are we supposed to know things like, hey, when you're speaking, do you notice you're out of balance?
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B
Yeah.
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Do you notice you're talking a lot about yourself? Well, hey, who's. What part of you is pushing you to do that? There's a part of you that feels unsafe, insecure. I don't know, it could be a bazillion things. Honestly, that's pushing you to not listen because it's uncomfortable being in your body and not sharing your. What's going on with you. So, yeah, so I, I believe. And there we could talk so much about. I could do a whole show just. I have done shows just on listening, you know, because if I say to you, hey, Dylan, if I just called you on the phone, said, hey, oh my God, I'm having a really, really bad day, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, immediately what humans typically do is, is we want to fix it. So then we jump in and go, well, what do you mean you're having a bad day? You got. Your book came out this week. Like, everything should be great. Like, what do you mean you have. It doesn't make sense. What humans need in order to experience that true self part that we just talked about is to feel heard, listened to. And your job as a listener is to simply hold space and be so energetically present, not physically present, and you're thinking about what you're going to have for dinner or where you're going to go in an hour, but be with me in what I'm going through so that I can have that space to learn and expand out a little bit more into who I am. That's that true self. We aren't good at this, and we gotta learn how to do this better. We gotta learn how to hold space and be there for other humans and let them be whoever, whomever that they want to be, need to be and listen really well in the present moment with them.
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B
I agree. I think part of the thing too. I mean, you do what you do and you're great at it. So that's a totally separate thing. But I think maybe you could touch on this on having a podcast. I think the podcasts that resonate are the ones where the conversation, there's a lead in, but there's a good purpose for it. And there's not a dominance. There's a. A real desire to know and to learn. And I like to give some examples when I can or give an opinion when I can, and then let you just run with it and expound on it in length. I want to listen, I want to learn, and I want to. I want to see sometimes your analysis of what I'm saying or. I had a psychologist on the other day, and it turned into him analyzing me half the time. And he was. We were laughing because he was having such a good time with it. I'm like, hey, man, like, this is about you. It's not about me. I'm not trying to make it about me, but those are fun. And I think that when you really take something like this as serious as you and I do, you can see how communication is really kind of supposed to be because it's. It's supposed to have a benefit for everybody. You know, it's supposed to make everybody feel good, feel heard, and feel like you're like, you don't have to gain something monetarily from everything. You gain knowledge or you gain joy or happiness or comfort or whatever, but you. Everybody gains something out of it. And even if it's just a smile, it's worth the time.
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Do you not feel that as humans, we're looking for connection?
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Oh, yeah. I think every.
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That's it. That's why we want to get better at listening. Because when you listen well and you don't cut people off, fix them all those things, that conversation starts to drop deeper, deeper, deeper. Right. That's. That's true connection. We want to be curious with other people. We want to get in there. Like, get in there. Tell me more. Let's go deeper. Tell me more. Right.
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I think if you do like a comparison to just an everyday thing. So let's say I'm a big. Well, I am a big sports fan. I can't be a big fan of anything if I don't sit there and watch and listen to what's going on. What, you know, analyze what's. What's happening during the game. So I'm paying attention, I'm listening, and I'm watching. It's not about Dylan. It's about what's going on on the screen. So.
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Right.
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You know, if you compare that to a conversation, if I'm not listening to you and engaging with you, there's not going to be any real reciprocation on either end. It's going to either get Awkward, or it's going to go nowhere, you know, and it's not good for either person to feel that way.
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A
No, but I don't. Again, I don't think we know how to do that well because we're very. We're uncomfortable with our own emotions. And what's happening is when we're listening to somebody again, it could be that when you're talking about what you're doing and you've got a big podcast and you're doing your thing. If I'm not comfortable in my own skin, that's going to cause me to have that part of me rise up and then want to talk about my show. And I want to either be alongside you or outdo you, or it's a competition. When we're comfortable in our own skin and I'm connected to who I really am, I'm gonna celebrate you, and I don't need to talk about me. That's. That's how we know there's been a shift in the ego. That's how we know. And the ego's not bad. As I say that word. Some people go, oh, the ego. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ego's not bad. Ego's not bad. But ego needs to not drive the car. Ego needs to sit in the back seat. Michelle and Dylan, you know, our. What I call our adult selves need to drive the car and be aware of the ego. We want to have an aware ego and not have an unawareness around the ego, or else it does drive the car. We don't want it to drive us. We don't want it to be the one that's making decisions for us and choices for us as we move forward in life.
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B
Everything in life is about balance. No matter what we do, it doesn't matter what it is. Whether it's the right amount of sleep, whether it's the right amount of a vitamin we're taking or whatever. Everything has to have a balance. So, I mean, for me, it's like, look, am I confident in my ca. In my abilities? Yes. Was I. Did I used to be cocky? Yes. Am I now? I'm the polar opposite? Because I know that gets you nowhere. And it doesn't. It doesn't ever allow you to excel further yourself, be successful, or resonate with other people, but if you exude a. A humble and honest confidence in what you're doing. Yes. So is a little bit of ego good? Yes. Is too much good? Absolutely not. It's horrible. And so I guess when you speak with people, there should be, like, a confidence in yourself, like you're saying and. And the conversation should flow easily. But I think one thing I'm curious that I want your opinion on too, is it seems like as time has gone on, everybody relies on either behind a keyboard, a text message. You can buy a house via text anymore. I make people get on the phone with me and talk to me. Some that, like some of these younger generations, too. If you call them or leave them a voicemail, they're like, what. What the. Like, what is this? And I, I, you know, I, I learned to go up to the girl and ask her out myself, not hide behind a keyboard or have somebody else go do me. I learned when I got in trouble, your ass is going to the coach and telling them in person what you did. I'm not doing it for you. And so I'm fearless at. At, you know, as I've gotten, I am literally fearless. Every human to me is the same. I, I am not scared to approach anybody, talk to anybody, and nobody should be to come to me.
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Yeah.
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You know, so what do you think about that? Do you think that's a lot of it, too, is we have, like, easy outs and crutches now to communicate and that people have just kind of depended on that.
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I'm sure you get negative comments sometimes.
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Yeah.
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I mean, and guess what? Those people are behind the keyboard.
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Exactly.
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Like, come and talk to me about it and understand why I said what I said or did what I did or posted, whatever that offended you. You know what? Here's the thing. I. I love talking about triggers. It's one of my favorite things to talk about. I say triggers are a gift. Triggers are a gift. And I can explain why.
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Yes, we're.
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A
We're triggered as humans again, and we don't know what to do with them, so then we take it out on others. Funny thing. I've had my husband on my podcast a few times, actually, and it makes me giggle when I read some of the comments when they come in after the shows. But specifically when he's on the most recent one we did, I don't even remember what it was maybe a year ago, but people commented and said things like this. And in the same social post on Instagram or Facebook or even an email. Oh, my God, I loved hearing from Graham. It's so great to have him on. All the love for Graham and myself be done. Then I had other. A few, not many, but a few people then came in and said, I don't like How Graham talked over you the whole time. That was horrible. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. More emails came in. I don't like that you, Michelle, spoke over Graham. I'm laughing, I'm reading through them. I thought, wow, isn't that interesting? One reality happened. One thing happened out there outside of self. But because of my beliefs. Think about all the people that listen to it, to you, to me. Everybody has filters. What is a filter? Think about. You're wearing glasses right now, right? Everybody has these glasses that we see the world through. The glasses are made up of our unconscious beliefs that were formed before we were six years old. That's why Graham and I can be on a show. We laughed the whole time. We made fun of each other. We taught. Thank you. It was beautiful.
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B
But again, yeah, yeah.
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People heard he talked over me. Other people heard I talked over him. And other people thought it was the greatest thing on the planet. How is that possible? What's real? It's all real based on the person that's watching or listening, based on their wounding. Their filters. I have it too. I'm not saying I don't have that stuff.
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Sure.
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That's why I do trigger work. That's. That's part. I mean, when I think about how I. When I think about my journey, I mean, I was wounded. Holy moly. Walking around, functional depression. I was getting high all the time in my teens and twenties. I was drinking like six nights a week. I mean, it was bad. And what turned me around was taking the focus not out here and blaming you and everyone else for my life. Because I was really good at that.
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B
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Been there.
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You know, I'm very good at that. And I am drinking because. Because of my child. Or I'm drinking because this guy did this to me, or I'm drinking because of that. That and the other thing. It's all outside of me. When I started to change quickly and really my whole life turned around was when I took that finger that was pointing out there and I was stuck in the victim seat that I didn't even see, by the way. And I turned it around and pointed it back at myself. Not to judge myself or to shame myself, but I did it with curiosity. Because I said to myself, hold on a second. I'm the common denominator in everything. In every relationship and every job I have and every hobby that I have is I'm taking me with me wherever I go. I gotta look at what's going on in here.
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B
Yeah.
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I had emotional dysregulation. I was Angry all the. I mean, it was like, I look at myself in my teens and my 20s, and people that, that know me will go, really? You were that? Yes. I remember taking the phone way back when I was probably in my early 20s, and I was so pissed at a boyfriend, I threw. This is before cell phones. I took the phone, the house phone. A lot of people are like, what's a house phone? I tell my kids, I'm like, you guys have no idea. You can't even imagine. We used to have house phones. Anyway, I took that damn house phone and I launched it across the room, put a hole in the wall. Like, I used to get so angry at different things. Right. Emotionally dysregulated. Okay.
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B
Yes.
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A
I don't do that anymore. I haven't done that in, I don't even know, 30 years. I just don't do that. That's not how I live. Because I learned how to work my triggers. That is a huge part of the book. I have a whole section on what a trigger is, how you work a trigger, and why it's important that we work our triggers and how it helps you to find your true self, which I call the adult chair. But that's the power of triggers. Who teaches us this? Nobody did. Your teachers? Did your parents? No. It needs to be learned because we're walking around every human like computers with faulty programming. Those are the limiting beliefs or the wounding that we had from childhood. But can you believe this, Dylan? You probably. I don't know if you know this or not. From the age of 0 to 6 is when this is how we learn how to be adults. We're walking around with a roadmap built. By the time we're seven, that roadmap is built. You're making choices in your life, decisions. You're picking your partner, you're picking your jobs. All of this based on a roadmap that was built in and handed to you in. Think about how old you were when you were seven. Or, excuse me, think about how. What year it was. Everybody listening? What year was it when you were seven? That's the roadmap that you're driving your car on today, which is you. That's your life. Isn't it crazy?
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B
Oh, man, 1989. So, yeah, I, you know what, though? I, I, I totally understand that, and I believe it. And I think that the examples that are set for you and that you're. The circumstances that you're putting at the young age shape you forever in a lot of circumstances, of course, you can overcome Some of those things or change. But yes, I totally, totally see what you mean and where you're coming from. And it's funny how well you talked about mass, you talked about changing and how this all correlates. I, I always tell my wife because she met me post prison, all right, and, and I tell her, if you would have seen me before, you would, you would have never even wanted to know this guy. And you know, the funny thing is, Michelle, when I think about it, I ask myself, why did you feel the need to do all of these things when it's not who you were? And, and I can think back and although there was a lot of drug induced moments, I can still remember never feeling good about any of the stuff that I, I could tell you a story now. We'd laugh and go, oh, that's awesome and stuff. But then I'd tell you the misery that followed it and, and I, I asked myself this question. Why? Because you, you were miserable and you, you beat yourself up. You knew, because I'm, I'm a very spiritual God. First person. And people that listen know that. But I was, I was doing the polar opposite and knew it and why. And you know what? It was always what I figured out as I got closer to God. It's, it's a form of idolatry. And when I say that, it's. You're worrying about everybody else's thoughts, how they see you, how you view you. And I'm. I was basically, my idols were in my impressions upon other people. Fancy clothes, badass cars, a lot of money. And it's. I'm not saying I don't want all that stuff now, but it doesn't make me shape me or do anything to me on who I am whatsoever. Do I want a nice car? Yeah. Do I have one? I think it's pretty sweet. But does it make me who I am? Do I. Have I realized over time that I'll be Dylan regardless? Yeah. Have I gotten everything taken from me?
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A
You?
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B
Yeah. I mean, I had to start my life from scratch. So I think that we oftentimes worry so much about others thoughts and impressions that it doesn't allow us to be who we really are, even if we want to be.
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A
Yeah. And also when I, when I hear this, and I've heard this for, gosh, I've been doing the work I do for over 20 years. Over, over 20 years. And when people look back on themselves and they judge. I'm not saying you're judging, but people do judge.
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B
Yeah.
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You know, why did I do that. Why did I marry that person? Why did I make these choices? Why was I drinking so much? Why was I whatever. We really are doing the best we can with what we have in the moment.
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B
Yeah.
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In the moment. Like Michelle looking back on younger self that threw the phone across the room. The Michelle I am today is like, what the hell? Like, that's great. No. But I also, if I really look back and feel her, not just mentally, what I call chin up from the mind, but feel in the body what was going on with her. She was in pain.
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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A
That ain't. It wasn't a. It was anger expressing because of the pain that was underneath it. Right. Nobody. There were no boundaries in my house. It was an unsafe place because of my uncle and all this. It was like there was anger. So it's okay. So, yeah. I, I don't. When people, people have asked me, oh, why did I make that mistake? You know, I, I remember speaking with a woman and she had had an abortion when she was 15 and she was 45. She had four kids, she was married and all this. She was so stuck because of that. She could not forgive herself. She could not move on. She. She judged the crap out of that 15 year old little her. I'm not pro or con abortion. That's not what it's about. What I was about was that the fact that she's carrying that with her and was not able to move on.
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B
Yeah.
- [28:59]
A
And she's sitting here at 45 years old, 30 years later, hysterically crying and they said okay. And judging the hell out of that little girl that was 15. So anyway, that's a whole other story. But I hear people that judge themselves so hard about their past and I'm like, for God's sake, we're doing the best we can in the moment, but the person we are today, to look back is like, well, yeah, I can see what was going on then. Yeah. When we're in the middle of it, you didn't know what you were doing. I didn't know what I were doing. The best we can.
- [29:30]
B
The key, I think you tell me because you're the professional here and I'm just a dude. But I think the key and what I found to be the most successful for me is using that as, as a fuel and teaching. So reflecting on it and saying, okay, I know I never want to be that again, but I also know what I gained from it and where I am now. And one of the things for me spiritually that I learned because I would do this. What you, Everything you're talking about, I would just shame myself for, for going to prison and ruining everything that I had and the way I was raised, embarrassing my family, embarrassing myself. And I, you know, when you do that and you, you go into confession, like for me, and you say, and you give your. Your apologies and your, you ask for your graces, you're supposed to let it go. Because if you don't, that's like you spitting in the face of God saying, well, I guess you're not forgiving me, right? So if you negative, and this sounds cliche, and when I say flip it into a f, A positive, I say flip it into, like, fuel and knowledge and use that to shape who you are and realize. Look, and I tell everybody this I did. I got what I deserved. I didn't realize it at the time. I needed it. And while I don't recommend that happening to people, we have our own free will. And if we take our free will and misuse it, it could lead us on the wrong path. And to correct that path, we may have to go through a negative experience to fix the mistake that we made. And so I used that. And I realized I wouldn't have met my wife. I wouldn't be talking to you right now, because I wouldn't be doing this. So instead of me going, man, I wish I would have done that different, I go, you know what? That was good. Because now I'm a totally different driven individual with a different mindset and a different career and a different focus.
- [31:12]
A
I wouldn't trade my history for anything. And I don't look back and say, oh, my God, that's so embarrassing anymore. I used to. Why did I do that? That was the worst thing. Judge, judge, judge. Shame, shame, shame. No way. Because I, I again, it's about. That's the adult chair. Like, this is the book. This is all about this. It's like, how do you shift your perspective on that? It's not to say, I'm saying, forget it. I'm just not going to think about it anymore. That's not it.
- [31:38]
B
Right, right.
- [31:39]
A
What I sat and said to myself was, this is what I teach people was like, what did you learn from that experience? How did it change you? How did you grow? So we shift out of that victim. Like, why did this happen to me? Why did this happen to me? You'll be asking yourself that question till the day you die. That's victimy. Instead of asking, what did I learn from this experience? How is this experience shaping who I am? Or how did it shape me? I would not trade my history. I can tell you what, I can smell codependency a mile away now because I can smell that. I know depression, I know anxiety, I know love addiction, love avoidance, just all of it. Like, I, I know this because I have walked the walk. Like, I have walked the walk. I don't bypass things. I go straight into them, and I learn from them and I grow from them. And I really believe that's why my soul's here. My soul's like, you're gonna go through this because I want you to learn. I want you to grow and then turn around and teach other people how to move through it too, because it's. Our Earth is a hard place to live.
- [32:44]
B
Right. I understand. I, I just, I love, I'm listening. I love your delivery, and I love the conversation because I feel like we think so alike in so many ways. It's so nice. You know what? Okay, so I, I, I'm getting so much out of this, but I want to focus on your book a little bit because we keep referencing it, but I want to kind of dig into several different aspects of it. One, let's just summarize the main, because I. We're kind of getting around different topics of it. Just summarize exactly what it is and who it's meant for. You know, like, who is this meant for and why?
- [33:16]
A
So this book is meant for every human.
- [33:20]
B
That's where I was going.
- [33:22]
A
No joke. This is the manual that we all should have had. In some ways, I think this is a not a true religious bible, but it's the psychological bible that we should have all had when we were growing up, and we should have had. It's too bad our parents didn't know most of this. Now, some parents know some of what's in here, but how in the world are we supposed to learn this stuff if we weren't taught it or modeled it? So what the book is, is broken up in two parts. So the adult chair model really teaches us who we are and how we got this way and how to become the healthiest adult self that we can become. So it's broken up into three chairs or three phases of life. We've got the child, which is zero to six. Like, we're just talking about adolescent or the teenage years, which is anywhere from 6 to 24. So there's pre adolescence all the way up. And then we have the adult. So the adult chair goes from 25 and older. It's when the prefrontal Cortex comes online. But we learn various things at every stage in life. Let me just give you a couple examples. So, for example, when we're in the first chair, which is the child chair number one, that roadmap is being built. We've already talked about that. So every experience that you see, witness, not that we're taught, let's face it, if my father ignores me because he's an alcoholic when I'm. When I'm a child, he's not telling me. Or let's, let's say it like this. If my father is unsafe because he's an alcoholic and he gets really loud, it makes me scared, or he's abusive physically in some way. I'm going to learn how to be small and quiet because it's not safe to be fully out loud. Right? That's. These are the kinds of things that go on a roadmap. So we might then put on the roadmap unconsciously. I want everyone to hear, we don't consciously say, okay, I'm never going to be big. I need to be. I'm never going to be seen because it's unsafe. It just falls onto that unconscious map. So that's the big thing that happens. Zero to six, roadmap. We learn all about emotions. How do we feel emotions? Are emotions safe to be felt? Are you, my brother, going to make fun of me when I have emotions? Are my parents going to shame me when I have emotions? If I'm crying, do I get called a crybaby? Or does my. Do my parents embrace me and go, baby, what's going on? I want to hear all about it. So you see again how we are met when we're going through this phase, everything gets put on the roadmap. Oh, emotions are safe. Great. I can feel those then when I'm an adult. So we learn about emotions, we learn about intimacy. Think about holding a little baby. Vulnerability, right? Think about a little kid in a restaurant falling down, screaming and crying. They don't give a shit. They're like, yeah, I'm gonna be vulnerable. But if you get spanked, if you're vulnerable, if you get yelled at, if you get shamed, you learn, stay in line, be perfect.
- [35:58]
B
Yeah.
- [35:59]
A
So when we look at adults that are perfectionistic, let's say people that have to be perfect, controlling all of those things, I look at the roadmap, I go, huh, I wonder what happened back then.
- [36:07]
B
Yeah.
- [36:08]
A
See how it all links together? It all links together. So anyway, those are some of the things. I have it all outlined in the Book, I go into deep detail. This is a really fun book. I just read the audible version a month or so ago. It was so fun. I thought, there's so many great examples of clients that I've had that. And it really takes you on this transfer, transformational journey of self. You can read the book, there are examples, there are exercises in the book that walk you through each phase and you'll learn. Oh, wait, what did I do with emotions? What did I do with spontaneity, with passion, with purpose? All these things. That's phase one, tier one, the child chair. Then we go into the adolescent chair. During the adolescent phase is where we learn all about who we think we are. How do we fit in? This is really the building out. This is when the ego comes online more and more and more again. We're born with the ego, but it becomes more dominant as we grow. And by the time we're six or seven, the ego is here to separate us from the oneness self. It, it gives us an individual identity. It helps us to be. Michelle, you're Dylan. Okay. And helps us to build out an identity. The problem is with the ego, it doesn't know our true self. We're born with a pure essence of self, the true self ego covers it up. It doesn't know any better because the ego's trying to get us to, to fit in to our tribe, to our family, to our friend group, to our community, to our church group, to our playgroup, whatever it is. So. So if you, Dylan, are crying in your little boy, you get made fun of by your peers, you're gonna stop crying like, no more of that. You are. You will never cry again. Do not show emotions. That's unsafe. So the ego's building out this framework of who you need to be in this world in order to stay safe, in order to fit in and in order to be loved. So the ego is again trying to navigate the world, only living in the future, in the past, but trying to navigate and build out masks and a framework so you can stay included and loved in the world. So this is where things like codependency are formed. This is where I learned. My mother has nobody because my father's an identical twin. He's with his twin all the time. I need as a six year old to take care of my mother. That's what I learned, that that was built out during that ego phase. So I became very codependent and that's what I saw and observed. Doesn't everybody get in everyone else's Business isn't everybody else enmeshed? This is where we learn about people pleasing the blamer, the victim, the narcissist, the addictions. Everything is built here. The framework is all built here, here, and, and mapped out here. It's an. It just continues on from that zero to six phase. Then we go into the adult chair. So in our adult. And again, I don't want anyone to think the adolescent or the ego is bad. It's not. It's trying so hard to keep us alive, safe and alive. Right. So the adult chair is when. If we had. There's the big if parents that were able to model for us what healthy adults do, apologize, feel their emotions. Mm. Listen, we talked about listening earlier. I'm gonna listen well. I'm gonna hold space for you as my child. I'm gonna be there for you, I'm gonna encourage you. It's not like I'm sitting in lotus position meditating every day by any means. It's strong, it's boundary to live there. We are able to move into that chair around the age of 25 when that prefrontal cortex comes online. So we take everything from the child and the adolescent and it all comes together around that age and we become adults. The problem is we didn't have these parents that were healthy, functioning adults. We continue to grow physically on the outside.
- [39:42]
B
Right.
- [39:42]
A
But on the inside, I'm making choices. Here's the thing that's crazy. That are from the average emotional age of a 12 year old. That's the ego age. That's the adolescent chair age. So yeah. So think about it. So when I was thinking about drinking alcohol when I was 17, that was. That would sound like a great idea. Why wouldn't I do that? I'm in. I feel uncomfortable, I have anxiety. I didn't even know it was anxiety back then, by the way. I knew something felt wrong inside that loud inner critic. So I'm just going to drink alcohol. That sounds like a great idea. That's why when we're adults now, where do you think the ideas come from? When we have thoughts of let me go ahead and do drugs, let me drink alcohol, let me have a whole entire cake or chocolate cake when I'm trying to get healthy and not eat sugar, let me go ahead and not work out because I just don't feel like it and I'd rather just lay home and watch tv. It's like those ideas, they're not coming from your healthy adult self.
- [40:37]
B
No, no, no.
- [40:38]
A
Right.
- [40:39]
B
No.
- [40:39]
A
So anyway, that, that's the, those are the three chairs. So the part one of the book walks you as the reader through your own really childhood, adolescent and adult. And it's really, honestly, it's not so scary. It's so fun. Again, I just read the book, I go, this is really fun. I love it. And you do exercises throughout as a way to, to discover yourself even more. It's really about helping people live and discover more of their true self. So it's this whole uncovering process. Part two of the book we have the five pillars. So the pillars are the how to. So if again, you missed out on things like, oh, gosh, I don't. I mean, so many of my clients over the years were like, what emotions? I don't feel emotions. What do you mean? So I, I thought about what are the things that most people that I taught for, for 25 years working with clients individually. These are the five pillars. I own my reality, meaning I take responsibility for my life. I feel my emotions. I live with self compassion. I own and manage my triggers and I set healthy boundaries. Five things I walk you through in the book, how to do every single one of them so you can strengthen them and strengthen yourself as your own again, so you can live in your own adult chair, but really your own healthiest adult self. So that's the book in a little.
- [41:59]
B
Tiny nutshell that's really, really, really intricate. But still it makes so much sense and the way that it's so dialed in and structured and sound. And I hope, because there's like a stigma, I think, amongst people when it's like trying to address personal issues, mental issues, whatever that you want to call it. And I hope that people understand that things like this are. There's nothing like that going on at all. In fact, it's a huge benefit and it will only help to change your life if you just. It's not like, I mean, for some people, yeah, I could see them having to spend more time than others on this, but it's not. I think if you read and understand and interpret and let it sink in and then actually make the efforts, it's not, wow, this is the most difficult thing in the world thing. If you just listen and let it.
- [42:44]
A
Happen, it's not difficult at all. And the way that I have always taught and I didn't mean to do this, but people have reflected this for, for, gosh, I've been on stages for like 10 years, so 10 years, let's say people say I break everything down, I simplify everything. It's just how I think so. The book is very much broken down. Again, it's a really fun read. When you read through some of the client experiences, it's like, that's me. That's not me. And then again, the exercises in the book. Each section has exercises so you can walk through. Let me tell you this. I've never met a human in my entire life that does not have stuff to work on. Everybody does now. Not everybody owns it and talks about it.
- [43:21]
B
That's right.
- [43:22]
A
Right. And the good news now is that it's kind of hip and cool now to have a coach or a therapist or something, you know? Oh, yeah, I. I go see my coach twice a week or my therapist. Thank God.
- [43:33]
B
Yeah, keep going.
- [43:35]
A
Being human is hard. Like, we need another human to listen to, guide to direct when we need it. So, no, there's nothing wrong with anybody. God, everybody. Nobody lands in their adult chair at 25. Let's face it, we've all got stuff. Some people have more stuff than others, but we've all got stuff. And knowing that I walked through it. I know you've. You've gone through this. And I don't want to sit here for a minute and have. Have anybody think, oh, yes, I'm in my adult chair every day, all day. I'm not. I'm not perfect. And this is not going for perfection. This is going for the healthiest adult you that you can become. And like I said, it's levels. So you don't compare yourself to anybody. There's none of that. It's just looking at yourself and. Yeah. And celebrating you. Like, it's a really fun experience. I don't know. Maybe that's just how I think.
- [44:23]
B
I don't know. Dylan, what. What do you think about this? Sometimes I'll throw out wisdom things, but this is something I just gained from listening to you right now. Just. So tell me what you think about this. I feel that complex situations are only complex when you try to take it all at once. So when you break something down like you do, and you take it into segments or small things at a time and work on them, you find that the complexities become rather easy. You just have to take it in stride. And I. This is what I encounter with a lot of businesses that I go into repair when they bring me in to fix them, and I run into owners that are. It's not that they're bad owners, that they have 800 ideas and they. They skip from one to the one to the one and they never actually fulfill them. And then they have too much on their plate. And then it gets complex, as opposed to taking a situation or scenario and going, okay, this whole big thing. So I'll take, like, me buying a new house right now. I get this long sheet of requirements, and you look at and you're like, oh, my gosh. Your initial reactions, oh, my gosh. Like, how am I ever going to do this? And see me at this point, I'm like, okay, well, shit. I mean, look. One, two, three, boom. I can do that in 10 minutes. Here, I'll tackle these when I'm done. But if you look at a situation, a book, listen to somebody like yourself teaching, you go, oh, my gosh, that's a million things. Or you go, okay, let's kind of read about the triggers right now. Okay, what you know? And let's focus on that right now. Fake. Well, shit, that's not so bad. Okay, what's next? Right?
- [45:46]
A
It's so the way that I have broken everything down. And I get this again. I get it reflected. I just taught a whole boundary course, and people were like, oh, my God, this sounds. So I said, you just have to know how to do it. And I'm not someone that has not walked the walk. I have walked this walk. I have looked at things like triggers and boundaries and feeling your emotions inside out and sideways. Like, yeah, I've looked at it. I've taught it for years. And it's like, how do we do this? It doesn't have to be difficult. No, it does not have to be difficult. And. And you're right. So if you want to learn about triggers, open up to the trigger chapter. Open up to the trigger chapter. And there are seven steps I think I have in there on how you learn how to work with your triggers. Again, that was a game changer for me because our triggers are unknown, unconscious beliefs that we have about ourselves. And that's where people have a huge miss on triggers, right? I've worked with a lot of people, even couples that come in, and they'll say, like, I remember working with this one guy. He goes, if you could make my wife stop saying that shit to me, I will not get so angry. And I'm like, okay, she's irritating me. The way she keeps talking to me like that. And I said, this is your stuff again. It's not to say we don't need a boundary with your wife if she really is being irritating. But this is a question I get all the time. They go, people ask me, how do I know if I'm just Angry or irritated or if it's a true trigger. And there's a belief in me that's rising up. Because a trigger is when a belief inside of us rises up and presents itself. And it could be, I'm unlovable, I hate myself, I don't matter, I'm not good enough. All those things, we don't want to feel those. So as the trigger, the belief that the trigger has pulled up is sitting right in front of you. You have an opportunity to look at it, work with it, or call someone else and say, dylan, can you believe? So and so said that to me. They're such assholes. And guess what happens? That trigger, that belief sitting right there in front of me that I could have worked on, starts falling back down to the unconscious mind. So until it comes up again. Right. But how do you know if it's a trigger or it's anger?
- [47:54]
B
Right.
- [47:54]
A
The way you know is if you're still carrying it with you after an hour.
- [47:58]
B
Got it. Yep. I was gonna say, if somebody cuts.
- [48:01]
A
You off in the parking lot at the grocery store and you're waiting on a spot and some jerk comes in and pulls into the spot, I'm gonna get irritated, I might be angry, whatever. But in an hour, am I still going to be talking about it?
- [48:13]
B
Right.
- [48:13]
A
If I am, that's a trigger. That's something to look at. And again, I go in the book, like, exactly how do. What would I say to myself? How do I work with a trigger? It's really simple. It's not that complicated. But you gotta do it. You gotta look at it. And then that thing that keeps rising up, it starts to not rise up because it's not there anymore.
- [48:35]
B
Yeah.
- [48:36]
A
And guess what? Emotional regulation happens. Life becomes more peaceful. There's more ease in your life. You know what to do when you're triggered. It's just. To me, my life feels so much easier now than it ever has. And it continues to get easier, is I keep practicing all the stuff that's in the book.
- [48:52]
B
I think too, if you just. So it's kind of like with your faith and it's supposed to be. You're supposed to forgive people no matter what they do, spit in your face, do all of this stuff. And you carry it and you carry it. And then you realize, man, okay, I'm just going to try this. And one day I just said, you know what? I'm going to give it to you today, God. And I'm going to just do what you tell me. I'm just going to See what happens. I'm just going to try. And I tell you what, it was some of the biggest relief sense because I was just able to let something go. And then in my mind I'm like, does this really matter? Does this really affect me day to day? Does this make a difference when I wake up in the morning? Does it. What, what, what does my anger or my wanting to hold this grudge, what is it doing for me? Beneficial? So I asked myself this and I sat there and I sat there and I'm going, and then what negative is it doing? Because you know, like in my field, stress and strain is going to increase inflammation, it's going to rise cortisol, it's going to throw up hormones, it's going to lose sleep, it's going. So I'm doing. So okay, if it's not doing anything good, what negative is it doing? And then you start making a list and it's like, okay. And it's also costing me time and money because I'm wasting time thinking about this when I could be working or productive or spending that doing something fun. So I think if you ever actually break something down conceptually and not emotionally, you know what I mean? Like with real fact as opposed to I'm so pissed, I think, and the way that you do it, where you give these examples and make it so easy, I think then most rational people will go, well, shit. And then they'll take a look in the mirror and fix it, you know, So I, I love your approach and I love your methodology. And you're thinking, I wish more people did it. It's something that's maybe complex but can be made very simple if it's done right, you know.
- [50:41]
A
Totally. And I love you. That's such a great example. I love that you took time like you were saying, and you have to take a little bit of time and it down and take a look at it. We just get angry and we carry it around. Yeah, forgiveness, it takes some exploring. Like, what's going on? Like, can I let this go? All those things. Something I used to do when I had an office when I lived in Nashville. I, I had, I had clients that would come in and when they would sit and talk about a story, you know, well, so and so did this to me is I'm still pissed or my ex husband cheated on, or my cheat, I got cheated on or whatever the heck it was, or my friend was mean to me and I can't move on. And they would carry it with them week after week, month after Month I finally got. And I actually use this now in my events, a little tiny suitcase, and I filled it with bricks. And I said, why are you dragging? I said, do you know what this is like when we keep talking about the same thing every week? It's like dragging around a cement suitcase. You know how heavy that is?
- [51:36]
B
Yeah.
- [51:37]
A
Your energy field on your. On your being. I said, so then when they would leave at the end of our meeting, I would say, take that suitcase with you and drag it with you everywhere you go, and I'll see you next week. And they go, are you serious? I'm like, yes. That's the weight that you're carrying with you. I want you to take it with you with my cement suitcase. And they'd come back and go, I think I'm ready to let that shit go. And I go, well, thank God, because you know what? It doesn't serve you to hold it. It's not helping you. It's hurting you. It's heavy. And I'm. And. And it's not sometimes easy just to go, I'm just gonna let it go. It's not like that. It's like what you said, let me get in here and explore this a little bit.
- [52:20]
B
Yeah.
- [52:20]
A
And when we look at things like you did, you know, I have people. I use that statement all the time. It's not, why did this happen to me? Let's just. That's victim me. And I. I go there, too. I'm not judging anybody. I get it. I get what victim feels like. I don't like it, so I flip it again. It's the same thing sitting in front of me. The perspective over here is, why did this happen to me? When we say that over and over, and if you're listening, say it out loud, and then ask yourself the same question. Why would this happen for me? Why did this happen for me? The keyword is for two or four. So if it happened for me, I then look at myself and I take the blame off of the other person. And I go, what did I learn from this? What can I learn from this? How can this help me? And I want to look at how I might have grown from this. Maybe I need better boundaries. Maybe I need to do trigger work. Maybe I need to end the relationship. I don't know. But it's something for us. And if we're willing to learn, that's empowerment. We go from victim to empowerment. Just by changing that statement from a statement to a question, it puts us. That's what number one pillar is. All about. I own my reality. I take responsibility. It's not saying that I'm going to take responsibility for all the bad things in my life, but one at a time, start looking at it. That's another one, man. I grew a lot from that. But I see my clients, they go, holy crap, I never saw it like that. Yeah, I'm more empowered because of this now. Yeah, you got to be willing to slow down, stop, and really do bits and pieces of this work. You don't do it all in a day.
- [54:00]
B
No, do it along.
- [54:01]
A
You do it along the way when it comes up.
- [54:04]
B
That's right. And that's part of it. I mean, we all do that. We want everything right now. I do it sometimes, too. I catch myself when I'm doing it now, and I didn't used to, but we just. When you want something, you want it, and it doesn't matter what it is. And you realize that a lot of the stuff in life that you do is a marathon and it's not a sprint. And if you take it in that manner, you'll be a lot more successful. There are times where it's. It's a now thing, but a lot of things that are complex or worth it or more difficult, they take time, and they take patience, and they take understanding. And when you grasp that, you will accomplish a hell of a lot more. So let me just before, because we're running low, I want to ask you about your podcast. So what kind of. What. What kind of discussions do you have and what kind of people. Guests do you have on? Where does it go? What's the. What's the. The subject matters, or is it all over the place?
- [54:51]
A
Gosh, you know, it's interesting because the first 200 episodes, it was a lot of me teaching exactly what we're talking about. And then I started gaining. Not gaining, but asking more guests to join me.
- [55:02]
B
Yeah.
- [55:03]
A
And then I found it shifted, and again, it's. It used to be called the Adult Chair Podcast. So I just talked about everything that's in this book. I just kept talking about that stuff. And I would talk about everything from how to improve your relationship, how to speak to your partner, how do you work with anxiety, like, very. The things that most humans live with every day. But then I started having more guests on, and now I'm finding myself actually shift back there because people have asked me so much, like, can you talk about. You know, when you talked about codependency, like, one of the things, for example, someone just said. Said it to me, the Other day she said, can you talk about the joy of, of co. Of codependency again? Because that was one of the podcasts. I did such a great show. I think I did 25 shows on codependency at least, because I know, I told you, I know it really well. But I'm going, I'm shifting back now to where I'm doing a lot more shows solo. But also some of my guests are guests that have, I really love guests that have unique perspectives on healing and transformation. I've had some really cool guests on that have had near death experiences. I've had really cool guests on that that have like amazing healing cap capabilities. And they talk about how we can develop that within ourselves, so. Ourselves. So, yeah, it's, it's fun. I'm all about transformation. Everything I do has to do with building a healthy relationship with self so we can have a relationship, a healthy relationship with others. That's what I'm all about. But the umbrella, of course, is always about transformation. How do we transform? Not that there's anything wrong with us, because I don't think any of us are broken, but I'm all about uncovering the true self and helping people remember who they truly are. We were that human when we were born. We were born with that pure essence and then we got programmed. So I'm a, I'm a deprogrammer. Dylan.
- [56:54]
B
I think it's though, it's, it's very important to get people to come on and humanize themselves and be open and let everybody know that we all go through it and we all. I try to do that on my end. Look, you know, I, I tell people I am. I have a big following online. Doesn't make me any better than you or any more special. Just means he's good at what I'm do. And I, I want you to see, I'm just like everybody else. I'm. I am not looking at myself anyway. I have problems. I have this, I have that. I have knowledge that I can help you with. And I want you to see what I'm doing and see where I have faults. And I want to teach you what I did wrong so that you don't do it and, and help people that may be on that path or thinking about that path. Like, look, I don't get ashamed to talk about, you have an eating problem, going to prison, whatever, because all that stuff shaped me, you know, And I think that when people see that, they go, well, if so and so did it, I can, I can do It. It makes you feel a different sort of way about yourself. So I. I think that's important. And hopefully, like, conversations like this, and when you bring on people, and I do, and we're like, a little vulnerable, I guess, or just on. I. I don't even know if it's vulnerable. It's just honest, you know?
- [58:06]
A
I mean, I think it's both.
- [58:07]
B
Yeah.
- [58:07]
A
And you sharing your prison story, I mean, God, it gives people permission to share their own story, right? I share a lot of my history when I do live events and even on my own show, I just don't care. I'm like, it's just. Our story shapes us, and it's beautiful. But people need to know who.
- [58:26]
B
Who is Michelle? Who is Dylan? Why go and act like you're something that you're not. It. Because people find out eventually, and it just. It just takes your. Well, I mean, not. Credibility is everything, but it just takes away from what you're doing because it just. You're just not being honest with them and you're not being honest with yourself.
- [58:43]
A
Exactly. And everybody's got stuff. Like I said, I don't know of anyone that doesn't. And when I lived in Nashville, I worked with movie stars, I worked with the singer songwriters, I worked with people that. You definitely know everyone. A lot of these people, and they've all got state, everybody.
- [59:02]
B
I always tell people there's people that get away with it and people that don't. You know what I mean? And everybody lives in these glass houses and, like, on the political side, and they want to act like, oh, my gosh. And it's like, you're the biggest culprits, and the biggest perpetrators are the ones that throw the most stones, the fastest, get the most angry, the quickest, and the ones that excuse the most, they're the ones that are doing the most. I guarantee you.
- [59:23]
A
Their triggers.
- [59:24]
B
Exactly. Triggering me right now.
- [59:27]
A
Yeah. No, you're right, though. It's true. And it's because they don't want to look inside themselves now.
- [59:34]
B
No, it's true. It's a hard.
- [59:36]
A
That's where the magic happens. That's where. Oh, my God. It's like. And you. You can't. And that's when the ego, you know, is in the driver's seat. It's like, get out. I'm scared to death, but I'm going to sit, I'm going to look at my stuff, and I'm going to. I'm going to tap into this true self. I don't even know what the hell the true self is. But I want to go there a little bit more. I'm gonna start being more vulnerable and more radically honest. It's set us free. Oh, my God. Does it set us free?
- [60:02]
B
It does.
- [60:03]
A
Imagine hiding the fact that you were in prison. Try. And you don't want anybody to know. I don't want anybody to know. This can never get out. Yada, yada, yada. It's like, no, I don't. It doesn't matter. Just say it. You know, that's a big deal.
- [60:15]
B
I changed my name after I got out, like, from my middle name to my last name and thought, like, that was going to be some biggest gate for me. And I mean, I always use my middle name on social before that anyway. But whatever, man. You're gonna get what you're gonna get and that's it. And if you like me, great. If you don't, great. But you're gonna get the real me. So whatever. I. I don't.
- [60:34]
A
We all want the real you. And I say that to anybody that's still listening.
- [60:38]
B
Yeah.
- [60:39]
A
Of humans want the real you. They don't want the fake you. They don't want the one that's wearing masks. They want the real you. They want to have deep, nourishing conversations with and connections with. That's what everybody's looking for.
- [60:54]
B
You know, like, you get an online Persona. It's like, you know, the role I'm playing right now, I'm playing me, and that's it. So that's all the only role I really want to play. Well, Michelle, just more of a pleasure than I expected and I expected a lot, so I appreciate it so much. I'm going to link everything for you. Your book, your podcast. Just real quick, best places to follow you. Is it, you know, your website, what socials, etc.
- [61:21]
A
Yeah, I would say YouTube or Instagram. And to make it easy, I mean, you can go to michellechelfont.com just go to theadultchair.com it takes you to the same place. It's easier to remember. But the adult chair.com and the book is available everywhere, like Amazon, Target, Barnes and Noble, everywhere in Australia, UK, Canada, everywhere. So the adult chair.com There you go.
- [61:44]
B
I thoroughly, thoroughly appreciate this. Enjoyed it. And we'll replay this multiple times. So I hope everybody enjoyed this and gained a lot and hopefully learned about yourself throughout this, or at least it made you want to take a look at yourself and to just get yourself better in any way that you can. So, all right, everybody that wraps up another one. Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli and Michelle Chalfont signing off.