← The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
Episode #62 Featuring Baran Dilaver, Founder of WONDERFEEL! A MASTERCLASS on NAD and NMN! The role of NAD in overall health, The difference between NMN and NAD, The TRUE way to boost NAD and more!
00:53:48
Loading summary
Transcript222 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Hey, everyone. Dylan Gemelli here today with an extremely exciting announcement. I am now on the mainnect app as an expert. That is Patrick Bet David's app. So you can hire me today. You can ask me questions about hormones, PE tides, neuroscience, cardiology, cellular health, finances, faith, religion, whatever it may be. I am there. You can book me for your podcast and you can also apply to be on mine. But go over, download the Manect app, find Ylan Gemelli. I will answer either by audio, by text, you can get video responses. You can even book a phone call with me. I'm extremely excited to be available to work with all of you, and I thank you all for your support. So check me out on Manect today. Today's episode is sponsored by my good friends at Timeline. Timeline is now offering the world's first ever longevity gummies, powered by MIT Appear. You've heard me talk about the importance of cellular health and our mitochondria, which is why I have Timeline as my favorite and most trusted sponsor. These are the only clinically proven Urolithin a gummies for strength and healthy aging. We may be living longer lifespans, but are we truly living better lives? What if the key is not just adding years to your life, to your years? This all starts at the cellular level. As we age, our mitochondrial health starts to decline. And one of the keys to living longer and healthier is keeping our mitochondria healthy and strong and might appear targets. This for us. Take control of your health now and live the life that you not only desire, but you also deserve. As a gift to all my listeners, you can save 20% off today by going to timeline.comdylan to get started. That's timeline.com back. Dylan, I assure you your cells will thank you. All right, everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Jelli Podcast. And these are always my favorite settings. When we get to do them in person, it's just more personable, more impactful. So I was blessed enough to get to sit down with my guest at the Was it the HOS Summit, Right?
- [02:25]
B
The Was it the Biohacker Summit Summit, yes.
- [02:28]
A
In Austin. I've been to so many, but I hit it off with you like this so fast, and it was just amazing. The conversations and the way that we connected. That's our background in terms of how we met. And it's just been like an instant friendship since then. And I'm really blessed, first of all, to. To have met you and to have that. So I just want to say that before we even get into anything thank you.
- [02:52]
B
You came with blazing questions and excitements and we're just like, what is, why this? Then? Why is that? What is this? And it was fun. I'm like, oh, this guy really is into what he's doing. Oh, yeah.
- [03:02]
A
Oh, yeah. I can't help it, man. I'm curious by nature. Anyway, my guest, he's an entrepreneur, he's an inventor and he's an accomplished executive. Now, prior, he's led numerous startups and he served as a CEO and COO at public and private companies. He's done a lot. He's been at a lot of summits. He does several different appearances. The company that he represents and founded that we're going to talk about a lot today is called One Wonderfill. And Wonderfill is a longevity focused company. They do wellness biosciences and the main product is nmn. So we're going to have a deep dive on nmn nad. We're going to do it all. We're going to overcome obstacles of information that need to be overcome and we're going to talk about the massive benefits. We're going to talk about what you do, brother. So, Baron, it is absolutely wonderful to have you. Baron Delaver, co founder, CEO Wonderfeel.
- [04:01]
B
Thanks for having me. Good to see you.
- [04:03]
A
Hey, man, thank you for coming in to see me because I know it's, it's a trip to come in here, but it is so much more fun and so much more impactful, like I said. So I want to utilize all this time with you to break this all down.
- [04:16]
B
Well, let's maybe talk about what NMN does because a lot of people have heard about nad. They heard about, you know, Justin Bieber and all these big names and Kelly Jenner. They're all using it.
- [04:27]
A
Exactly.
- [04:27]
B
And they're taking IV shots. I mean, they're taking shots, they're doing iv. So what is nad? And, you know, there's a technical way of explaining it. You know, without NAD, you'll be dead in 10 seconds. It's key to energy production in the mitochondria. NAD helps the ATP production. It takes place in 300, over 300, 400, actually, enzymatic processes. It helps with DNA repair, but that's very technical. So I have a different way of explaining what an ad is with an analogy. And I feel like people connect to it. So think about NAD as sort of the water source, the river that comes from the mountain and feeds the valley where there's like one or two towns, there are orchards, there are farms, people are using the water, the river, for fishing, for transportation. So it's the life support. It's so essential. And what really matters is, you know, when you're younger that that water source is flowing really nicely, it's clean. And as you get older, the water starts becoming less and less, maybe clean or like there's maybe less water or it's not consistent. And what does that mean? And it doesn't. The impact is not instant. You know, people are still using it for drinking. I'm talking about the valley. Now we are back in the valley. But, you know, some years your apple orchard doesn't produce as many orchards. Just think about it as, you know, one of your organs, maybe your liver is not processing certain things as well.
- [05:59]
A
Right.
- [05:59]
B
Maybe your skin is, you know, reacting. Inflammation is a good example. You know, people have inflammation. So in like one year, your strawberry fields are not producing as many strawberries or you don't have as much fish anymore. So if people are used to, you know, eating fish and fishing in the, from the river, they have to find a different source. That's another organ having to like, use a different way to cope with it. It's like the well drying up slowly.
- [06:25]
A
Yes. Okay. All right. When it comes to nad, let me ask you this. Why is it that it wasn't discussed 10, 15, 20 years ago? Why is it all of a sudden so prevalently discussed out of nowhere? And, and I ask you that for the obvious. You're talking about how vital it is and how we literally, if we didn't have this in 10 seconds, goodbye. Why.
- [06:49]
B
Why aren't we talking about. It's been known for a hundred years. Yeah.
- [06:52]
A
So where's it been?
- [06:53]
B
Yeah, so it's been known for a hundred years. Actually, the. One of our, our chief medical officer, one of my partners, Dr. Salzman, was one of the first people who started writing about it. That's what he was working on. This is back late 90s. What he was working on is trying to fix the broken, broken BRCA gene, the broken DNA that causes breast cancer and ovarian cancer in women. And NAD was one of the things that he used in the enzyme. So he was like one of the pioneers writing about nad, but he comes from the super scientific pharmaceutical background. So his goal was to repair the DNA to fix cancer, not as a supplement. So what happened in the last couple of decades, especially Harvard and MIT medical schools, they've done a lot of research and the precursors have been discovered. So you mentioned NMN at the beginning of our talk. So nmn, nicotinamides, mononucleotides is a precursor to nad. So you cannot just take nad. They tried it in the past. NAD doesn't. Doesn't do anything. If your NAD levels are going down, you cannot just take nad.
- [08:01]
A
Right.
- [08:02]
B
That's not how it works. So the discovery is NMN and nr, and then the clinical trials and the studies, preclinical trials start coming out, and people are like, oh, wow, this moves the needle. So that's why, all of a sudden, you know, the end result is nad. You start hearing about nad, the fascination, more clinical studies, more funding.
- [08:24]
A
So he's looking into cancer research and fixing DNA that needs fixed. And he stumbles upon NAD during this.
- [08:32]
B
Process of having more than stumbling, but. Well, yeah, just working with. Working with NAD and understanding that the mitochondria, the cell, all the functions, and NAD plays a key role, actually, in what he has invented, which is DNA repair. But funny enough, like, you don't need DNA repair just for cancer. You don't. You need DNA repair every day, every second. Yeah. Your DNA is constantly getting chipped away. Like the exhaust that you just inhaled outside.
- [08:59]
A
Yes.
- [09:00]
B
Or like too much sun that's just constant, like, hitting the DNA.
- [09:03]
A
Right.
- [09:03]
B
Okay. Put it this way. NAD is so precious to the cell that the cell membrane doesn't let it slip out. NAD is used inside the cell.
- [09:13]
A
Okay.
- [09:14]
B
So that's why you cannot just, like, put NAD outside the cell and expect it to go inside the same membrane. That doesn't let it out. Doesn't let it in either.
- [09:23]
A
Right, Right.
- [09:24]
B
So the body has a system to make NAD. How does it make NAD? It makes NMN and NR2 molecules. And these are not the same as, like, niacin. This is much further down. Right. So. So these are the building blocks that your body also creates billions every day. And then there's a lot of conversions happening, so nmn, nadh, et cetera. But the main one we need to talk about is how NR and nmn, they are. NMN, especially, is grabbed by a receptor outside of the cell.
- [09:58]
A
Okay.
- [09:58]
B
Just grabs it and then flips it inside. And once it's inside, then it turns NMN to nad.
- [10:04]
A
Explain why you can't just take nad. Why. Why doesn't it grab the nad? If you just take that, like, it.
- [10:10]
B
Bumps it out, which is just like a basketball. Boom.
- [10:13]
A
So it's rejecting it.
- [10:14]
B
Yeah, but there's a. But there. There is a theory. We haven't. We haven't seen enough studies. Like, when people take nad, we don't Know what happens? Because nobody studies that. It's not. We know that it doesn't go in.
- [10:24]
A
Okay.
- [10:25]
B
But under. Salzman actually explained it. Dr. Salzman, our chief medical officer, explained that the. When you flood your system with nad, which we'll get into it.
- [10:34]
A
Yeah, please.
- [10:34]
B
Feels like it's very likely that some of that NAD actually turns into an mm because the body needs to do something with it. It needs to, like, discard it. A lot of it comes through, actually, your urine, I figure. But some of it, you know, the body's smart, smarter than you think. Right. So it's like, there's something wrong in here.
- [10:51]
A
Right.
- [10:51]
B
So let me convert this into an MN. That's how Dr. Saltzman explained it. But it hasn't been really studied, so we don't know exactly what's going on. We just don't. We know that, you know, NAD doesn't readily go inside the cell.
- [11:04]
A
How important is the NAD within that in comparison to the mitochondria? Do they work together?
- [11:08]
B
Do you.
- [11:09]
A
Do they feed off of each other? Does n a d help provide the energy that the mitochondria does?
- [11:14]
B
Just a quick great question. So we have the cell.
- [11:17]
A
Yeah.
- [11:18]
B
And then you have a bunch of mitochondria inside the cell. Mitochondria is what makes the cell work.
- [11:24]
A
Right, Right.
- [11:25]
B
So NAD actually goes inside the. In. In the mitochondria will be not healthy if it does not make enough nad.
- [11:31]
A
Yes.
- [11:32]
B
And that's where, like, you know, all the, like, mitochondrial dysfunction is one of the, you know, major issues.
- [11:38]
A
Yeah.
- [11:38]
B
It's like you have all kinds of problems will come out of it, but we don't even have to go to dysfunction. We just want our mitochondria to be happy, to be optimal. So for that, it needs a lot NAD energy.
- [11:51]
A
Okay. So NAD is a big key component in. In. In making sure that our mitochondria is healthy and functioning properly, which in turn is obviously going to give us energy and make us feel good.
- [12:01]
B
Absolutely. 70% of NAD is used purely for energy production in mitochondria.
- [12:06]
A
I want to ask you, because every company that has a product like yours has what I call barrier to entry or obstacle to overcome. And that can be in your marketing, your pricing, your comp, your competition, your ethics. But then there's misconception and misunderstanding. How difficult has that been for you with the company to overcome misunderstanding, misconception, and just bad information that gets put out there? How difficult is that for you?
- [12:40]
B
I mean, we've been fortunate that we are recognized because we have an innovative formula that makes a big difference. Yeah. We pay so much attention to quality.
- [12:50]
A
Yeah.
- [12:51]
B
So we've been fortunate that, you know, most of the, like the top, like the health experts and the press recognize us. But overall I think there's a big challenge, not just for us, but like in general.
- [13:05]
A
Yeah.
- [13:06]
B
Just because NAD is popular, you see a lot of companies just slapping NAD on a label. And I'll actually track back a little bit.
- [13:14]
A
Yeah, please.
- [13:16]
B
It was very interesting Back in 2022, FDA released a letter and it really confused muddied waters because they, they, they have already approved NMN as a dietary supplement. And then they released a letter saying like, no, we made a mistake. There's a pharma company that, that has applied for, for the, for the patent. Sure. So we gonna take NMN out of the consumer like from the cons, from diet as a dietary supplements from the consumer market because it's going to become a pharma product. But they didn't. I mean that's what the letter said, of course. And what that caused, interestingly, which surprisingly to consumers benefits Amazon just to remove all nmn. I remember, but most of those brands, there were actually nothing wrong with actually, you know, anything coming from China. But these were just made up brands. No science behind and probably made in chemical facilities. And back then we know it because, you know, NMN was so expensive to produce. Yeah. And they were cheap and they were just having bunch of fake reviews. So people were buying all these products. So one fortunate thing from this bad decision that FDA made is they got removed.
- [14:38]
A
Yeah.
- [14:39]
B
So, you know, just there's a silver lining in things always. But now like there's, there's a lot more coming back. But that was a nice cleanup. Yeah. Because consumers, like I have a hard time finding sometimes some like interesting supplements. Like are they tested? Are they clean? Like, you know, like the third party testing is super important. Third party, meaning it needs to be third party.
- [15:01]
A
Yeah.
- [15:01]
B
You need to track it to where the third party is, an established lab. Is there like a barcode that you can track? Is it real?
- [15:08]
A
Right.
- [15:08]
B
It's a lot of work. Right. Like, you know, for every supplement to do that. Yeah. So the challenge now is, you know, again, people are slapping an idea on things and what's the right dose, you know, what's the right precursor? Like nr, nmn. Right. Does anybody anything else work? And people now come up with a whole bunch of other things claiming that they increase NAD production based on what exactly?
- [15:30]
A
And I had this discussion earlier today with a friend. The Owner of Young Goose. And we were talking about how people don't understand costs when it comes into putting out a good product. And sometimes when you see a. A product that's inferior and cheap, it's because there was no testing done. There were so many corners cut. And a lot of times people don't appreciate nor understand the time, the effort and the cost that it takes to go test every batch to get something truly third party tested. Because that, that's another one of those terms that gets thrown around and I don't think it's monitored enough, actually. I don't think I know because I've seen it and I've been in the trenches long enough. One of the things I'm thankful for, but I'm still jaded on, is that I'm privy to that knowledge and that information on how things actually go and that. But that's why I am able and capable when I meet people to know who's full of it and who's not and why. Not that I'm special by any stretch, but I am very tactical and careful about who I'm willing to say, yeah, I'll take that, or I'll.
- [16:37]
B
You do your homework.
- [16:38]
A
Yeah, I mean, I know that about you. Well, I'm not going to put people on my channels and stuff to promote for a couple bucks to go harm people or feed them bs. So I'm willing to wait and bide my time and, you know, money and all that stuff, it comes when it comes, but the importance is credibility and reliability.
- [16:58]
B
This is something interesting. Money comes when it comes. Like, just want to show something. I'm not sure if you want to even keep it or edit it, but when we were doing the formula, there was one ingredient and nobody really knew about it, but our team was adamant about putting it in there. It's just like ergothioneine from mushrooms. And it was $100,000 a kilo. Damn. It's just insanely expensive, right? You don't have to put much in it. I mean, we didn't even know how much we were supposed to put it in there. Even Dr. Sussman was not sure. So we had ended up talking to the. What is it? The Nobel Prize nominee for his work on antioxidants in 1990s. Oxford University professor. He was in his 80s, so he was the one who was the expert on it. So we had to call him. We were like, hey, how much are we supposed to put it in there? And he was so happy to talk to us. He's like, oh, finally somebody's, finally, he's like, all my work on everything else, it brought me to this, to this mushroom ingredient. And he was raising money for doing a clinical trial for Alzheimer's on this thing because no pharma company will get behind it. They cannot patent it. Right. So, but long story short, the reason I brought it up is because when we started, it was $100,000 a kilo. And we, we, we, we, we lost money. We put it in there because we, we believed in it.
- [18:14]
A
Right, of course.
- [18:15]
B
And the price came down and down and down and down and down. Like it's a fraction of it right now. Yeah. So now we can make a little bit money on it. Yeah. But, you know, as to your point, things change and yeah, you can make money. It comes in different ways. It goes in different ways.
- [18:30]
A
You know, it comes and it goes.
- [18:32]
B
Comes and it goes. Yeah.
- [18:33]
A
And, but as long as you're doing the right thing, it always ends up coming more. It does. And, and I used to make it. And I'm not trying to go off topic here, but I think it's important to share the kind of the person that I am and you are. I used to make that just like everything that I was about. And when I stopped doing that, I got way more than I ever even needed or wanted because I didn't live for it or make it a prior.
- [18:55]
B
I, I won't work with.
- [18:57]
A
Yeah.
- [18:57]
B
Excuse my language.
- [18:58]
A
No, you're fine. Speak freely.
- [19:00]
B
You know that like, you know, it doesn't matter how important they are. Like, no, they might have a million dollar check. No, thank you. No, life is too short.
- [19:08]
A
No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, moving forward then. I, I have a couple things that I took note on here for you that I wanted to discuss even scientifically. When do people start to see the beginning stages of the decline in nad. Because I'm, you know, things just naturally decline, whether it's testosterone, you know, I mean, that's what I do. When does it start to happen naturally? And what kind of bad lifestyle things or other components of life could make it even worse?
- [19:45]
B
So, or understanding the way the scientists have been looking at it is like, when does it decline? Also when can we supplement it? When can we start, like looking into supplementing? So at the age of 30, for sure, it starts declining, prevalent age for everything. Isn't it potentially 25 too? But how much? I mean, it's also, people are different, but there's a consistency on everybody. There's a decline. Some people say, well, have you Measured your NAD levels, it's pretty certain that it's lower than what it was when you are 30 years old.
- [20:19]
A
And that's men and women, right?
- [20:20]
B
Men and women.
- [20:21]
A
Okay.
- [20:21]
B
Yes, that's. That's pretty, pretty much, you know, the science is out there.
- [20:25]
A
Yeah.
- [20:26]
B
So the tricky question is, you know, if you want to take a supplement, should you start, like, in your 20s? And, you know, our approach is we don't think so. We don't have enough data. We don't even have to look at it because there's so much more interesting data for people who are older than 30, 35, 40, and then you see actually the results. But I'm surprised, like, some of these celebrities, they're not even 30, and they're taking, like, massive amounts. I mean, hey, look, people are taking risks. I don't think it's a big risk. It's something supernatural. Maybe they're ahead of us. Like, you know, that's why I love biohackers. They don't wait for the science. They. They figure something out and they go after it. Um, I'm, I'm. We are more conservative. We come from, like, a little bit more conservative pharmaceutical study, everything. Look at the data point of view. So, you know, if you're, if you're younger than 30, it's questionable. It's up to you. But once you start passing pats in the age of 30, then, then this is a consideration because they're declining. And what, what contributes. You ask that question, what makes it decline faster? Um, I don't think anybody has, like, done a, like, clinical trial to see, like, if you don't exercise, does the NAD levels go down? But we know that if you exercise, it helps with NAD levels. So you can assume that if you don't exercise, it's going to go down faster.
- [21:43]
A
Right, right, right.
- [21:44]
B
Like, that's what we say. Like one of the, the magic pill that works where everything is exercise.
- [21:49]
A
That's right. So I mean, and you know this. When you're not taking care of the things that you need to take of care of daily, if you're not, I, I'm a big believer of mind, body, balance. And if you're not balanced in the best way that you can. I understand some people have conditions, but you can do everything under the sun, and it's not going to be nearly as effective as it's supposed to. People come to me all the time, how do I lose weight, how do I gain muscle? And it's like, well, first we have to address all of this, because I can put you on everything under the sun and it's not going to matter. How does one know if it's working? Because you and I had this discussion where sometimes people say to you, well, what is it doing? So is there a blood panel that will show? Will they have a little bit more energy? Will their skin look better? Like, how do people know that it's actually doing something?
- [22:37]
B
That's a great question. Yeah, it's a bit of a trick question too. So I'll start with the, with the interesting news we get every day. So we have every day we get a great customer feedback and some of the feedback really blows our minds because we hear about something we never even thought about.
- [22:56]
A
Right.
- [22:57]
B
Because like I'll give you some examples. So these are not like the important part is like the people usually feel an energy uptick, but if you're in your 40s, if you're working out, if you're really healthy, if you're in your optimal shape, you're not gonna probably feel anything. It's hard to heart to really make you better. We even tested it on the fastest swimmer on earth. So he won the 50 meter freestyle in Olympics in 2002 and 2016. So that makes him the fastest swimmer. But the guy is in such a good shape for him to break the world record. Who knows his mindset, how he woke up that day, that's what matters. So he took it and he didn't feel the difference. Right. So again, I wanted to start with the positive, but I gave you the, you know, where it's hard to tell, but where, where did it makes a difference for somebody? Like, you know, the people who are like in their 60s, 70s, they have a hard time going up two flights of stairs. They can go three, three flights, four flights. And they send us like these, these, these amazing stories. But those are kind of expected. Like if they, I mean, um, not everybody feels everything. But then the really unique ones and some of them are serious medical conditions. Like, I want to be very careful. Like we're not making any claims.
- [24:12]
A
Yeah.
- [24:12]
B
But they come and they tell us, like, I stopped taking my blood pressure medicine. Like, why did you do that? Because it really, like, it helps with the blood pressure. Um, so there are very interesting other stories. Like people's eczema go away. Eczema. Like 30 or 40 year chronic eczema. They try all these cortisone creams and like they work for a while. They stop working. Yeah. And then they're like, well, it's completely gone. Like Eradicated.
- [24:40]
A
This is where my mind goes, is if somebody tells you it's helping my eczema or I don't have to take my blood pressure medication, that low NAD levels would be contributing to those problems. I mean that's, that would be the correlation I would make. So is, you know, if, if it's helping with those instances, I would assume that low NAD can obviously have a variety of things that it causes wrong with somebody.
- [25:04]
B
Age related decline. Yeah, NAD is, that's, that's, that's one of the things like, you know, what is aging. Yeah, there's a lot of reasons that we are aging, but we know that NAD is one of those reasons. And like, that's why I call it. The most significant discovery that we can use in longevity science right now is bringing back NAD levels. There are many other things that are going to come out, but this is practical that we can implement, we can apply. So just to connect a few things, I want to go back to the blood pressure thing is actually is clinically studied. Oh, so it has been showing. But of course for that to be a prescription, it needs to go through the other phase. Oh yeah. So let's frame it in that sense that it's been studied. So it's looking promising. But do not stop taking your prescriptions. It's not what we are saying. But to answer your question better, there are so many potential benefits. The list is really long. Everybody is different. So somebody who's super healthy and optimal, they might feel maybe a little sharper, a little bit more focused. But then everybody else is going to have a different reaction to it because we are all different. So the skin, yes, it has a major impact on skin. But in the case of eczema, we don't think it's the NMN or nad is the combination that we have like the mushroom ingredient dimension. Ergothione.
- [26:32]
A
Yeah.
- [26:32]
B
Because on some of these, let's not complications consumers, we, we told them, okay, do you mind, do you want to, do you want to just like experiment with us? Do you mind stopping it? See if it comes back, comes back. Now do you mind taking just one ingredient at a time to see what happens? Yeah, I mean these are not your clinical trials obviously, but we are so curious that we want to get an idea. And sure enough, when they just took one ingredient, it did not, did not fight it off. So combination the synergy between. The synergy works. And again, we don't know exactly how it works, but it works for me.
- [27:06]
A
When I think about anti aging because man, I Have really put some time into this. What are my keys to that? And it would be boosting mitochondria, boosting N A D levels and telomeres. Those are the three things that I look at when it comes to.
- [27:21]
B
You're going deep, but people are looking at. Is my hair getting wider? The one surprising thing we got is like people's hair, their color is turning back to the regular color from gray and white. We didn't expect that. We don't know if it works on everyone. Right, right. But there's a lot of people, like if you go to our website, like read the reviews, they're just really fun and interesting.
- [27:43]
A
Yeah, I mean, but I mean, what are things that you start to notice when you age? Graying hairs. One. Yeah, exactly. So if we're prolonging life or aging, I mean that's certainly something that would, it wouldn't shock me that it's doing at all.
- [27:56]
B
So.
- [27:56]
A
Yeah, that's. That's what it turned.
- [27:58]
B
Reversing is really surprising. Yeah, that's what's really surprising. It's slowing down, sure. Yeah, I hope so, but. Right, but how is it, how does that reverse?
- [28:07]
A
Tell me this then, because we mentioned this earlier and I think it would be good to give a breakdown. It's kind of a two part question, but it goes together. Why is it that I like. You'll see these people, oh, I. I just took NAD and I feel so great. Like it just made me feel amazing because I get that a lot, you know, when they take this big injection or whatever and then, you know, why then over time do they end up feeling bad after? Because a lot of people end up not feeling so great after that initial, you know, big bulk of NAD that goes into them. I've seen people tell me I didn't feel so great after. I've seen some people continuously tell me they feel good and they think they need to keep taking it. So I've seen both sides of the spectrum. Why is it then explain or you know, however in depth. You want to go big, big injection or IV or whatever, a big dose of it, feel really good. I want to keep taking it forever.
- [29:02]
B
Let's break it down. When you do NAD IV or injection, you're flooding your system with nad. So there are a couple things we need to, I think look at number one, does the NAD get into the cell? That's the question. And there's literally like there's only one study that shows most of it comes out. But again, you're putting so much nad how much of it really gets in is the question. Assuming that, you know, a good chunk of it gets in. If we assume that, that is very different than the way your body produces nad. Because you produce nad, like, consistently every day. It goes up a little bit in the morning, comes down, like, later in the day. Right. But, you know, if you compare like the Nadine injection or IV to taking supplements, it's like taking 100 pills a day. Like, you're just, like, taking so much. Right. Like you're just, like, boosting it if it goes in there. That's assuming that it's. Some of it goes in there. Right. So some people actually have chest pain, Some people react to it. Some people, like, have hard time going through it. And some people come out and say, I feel great. Yeah. Who knows exactly what you are doing in your body? Like, you're maybe activating response systems. I mean, right now I'm speculating, but yeah, you're doing something a little bit, not a little bit very different than what your body is used to.
- [30:24]
A
Right.
- [30:25]
B
I mean, we know that it's really safe, but again, like, even if you give too much water, you can kill somebody, right? Totally. So. So we know it's safe, but like. But again, everybody's different. So if people are responding well to it, they like it. More power to them. Still a lot of work to go and put needles on, but more power to dial. But if it doesn't feel good, you probably shouldn't do it.
- [30:50]
A
What are some ideal doses for taking NMN so that you know you're getting the right amount? Because like you were saying, there's so many different supplements with so many different. Either bottle recommendations or the pills are. I'm just gonna make up a number. 500 milligrams here, 200 milligrams here. And on the surface, if I'm a consumer and I'm looking at that and I'm really confused, you know, because it's like, is that too little? Is that too much? I'm scared. I don't know. And then you've got 75 different websites telling you to take this and take that. So talk about the dosing a little bit for me.
- [31:26]
B
Yeah. I mean, let's just go to science on that one.
- [31:28]
A
Yeah, please.
- [31:29]
B
All the clinical trials we looked at, they are all pointing to more or less the same, which is somewhere around, like, let's say 800 and 1100, 900,000. So there's a consistency there. But I want to address why do you see so many different numbers? Number One, it was so expensive to produce five, six years ago, and not many people knew about it, so the companies were putting a reasonable price tag on it. I didn't want to put like $200 price tag in there. So we took the bullet. I mean, we were one of the first ones because it was a tough to. To price it at a level that people can access to it.
- [32:10]
A
Yeah.
- [32:11]
B
So we took the hit. But we wanted to put the right dose in there. That was key. Despite the fact that there's probably no other company who had that dose back then.
- [32:20]
A
Right.
- [32:20]
B
Just trying to do the right thing. So now you see much more of the right dose because the lower doses, from what we see, doesn't really do much like. It's like you might not as well take it. Yeah, lower. Lower is not the right word if you don't use the optimal dose. Because what is lower? Lower is all subjective. Sure. If you don't use the optimal dose, it really does not make a lot of sense. And then new clinical trials are now doubling the size, doubling the dose. So maybe in few years we're gonna say, oh, even our dose was like too moderate.
- [32:50]
A
Yeah.
- [32:50]
B
Because they haven't seen any side effects. They have seen good benefits. But we feel competent about like 900 to 1,000 milligram dose. Um, is the right optimal dose, but not if you're 18 years old. So I mean, because we don't know.
- [33:05]
A
There's a lot of people I really respect. So I don't want to speak out of turn here, and I'm certainly not putting you on the spot, any names or anything like that, but I see some people that I, I follow, I listen to that know a lot and I see em promote NAD supplements constantly. And good companies too, that, that make them. And I'm not, I'm. Once again, I'm not gonna call out names.
- [33:24]
B
I don't think that's.
- [33:25]
A
That, that's proper.
- [33:26]
B
Well, I have to tell you, one of the biggest names out there, he's at a very prominent university on the west coast. I've heard him on another big podcast dismissing NMN and ad. But then I realized he hasn't read the new clinical trials, doesn't even know about it. I was really surprised myself. I mean, I would love. Well, let me just call his name. Like, I mean, I would love him to speak to somebody like Dr. Andrew Salzman.
- [34:00]
A
Yeah.
- [34:00]
B
Have a discussion so that you guys can break down. Your opinion should be based on the clinical. Latest clinical research. Peter Adia is his name. And I was so surprised because it didn't look like he had the latest. He studied the latest papers and.
- [34:13]
A
And I will say this. I used to do stuff like this. And I complete. And this was my younger days. And I'm. I'm fully open to admit that. I always admit where I wrong. And I would take what one person said that I knew was really respected or whatnot and just kind of take it as gospel and just kind of repeat it without really looking into detail. I didn't do that with everything, but some things that I wasn't well versed on. Now instead of me jumping into, like when the nad craze hit, I wasn't talking about it because I just didn't know enough about it. And I could go take the word from somebody like you're talking and just put it out there and then look like a complete fool later by saying something that wasn't accurate or by somebody that had a bad motive. I see these companies that have 20 different products. You have one because you believe in it and you specialize it. You brought up two precursors why NMN over the other.
- [35:07]
B
But they're both great. Some people take sides like they're rooting for. Yeah. You know, like a football team. So we don't necessarily root one over the other one. They're both really good. We believe that NMN is a bit more effective. But, you know, if you want to take nr, take nr. Just. That's completely fine. We, we believe that, you know, the synergistic effects of the other, other ingredients, not belief, but like that's what the preclinical trials show us. That's what moves the needle. Not necessarily just NMN or nr.
- [35:39]
A
Have you ever thought about adding NR to your product lineup? Or is that you just going to kind of stick with nmn?
- [35:45]
B
We have. We have, yeah. You know, but not. There's. There's so many more interesting areas that we are working on. We are doing studies that is. That is more like a commercial thing. You know, we are. We're looking at more little bit more effective things that moves the needle.
- [36:03]
A
Okay, so I got another question for you because we've been going all over.
- [36:07]
B
The place, all over the place.
- [36:08]
A
But it's all good. It's all good shit. It's all.
- [36:10]
B
I don't enjoy it.
- [36:11]
A
Yeah. What's CD38? What is CD38? For everybody listening? Because I, I wanted to bring that up and, and I was. We. We have to talk about it. So what is it and why do people need to know about it and how important is it?
- [36:25]
B
Good question. So let me take it back to analogy. So remember that we have this source of water. Yes. That comes from the mountain, that feeds the valley to the river, and that is arms. So CD38 is something in the body that's think about like, you know, bunch of, let's call it people. They go up to the source because there's not enough water coming down. They go towards the source and they redirect some of the water to, for their purpose. So they deal like a little, small, little village in there and they are just kind of stealing everybody else's water. Maybe they're bandits who know, who knows where they came from. Right. But they're diverting. That's super important source of nad. I mean, there are good people that just happen to like, you know, get up there and find it. So CD38 is like something like, especially like your guts produces a lot. It could be a inflammation sign, it could sign inflammation as well. So as you age CD38, it starts, there's more CD38 production. And the CD38, we don't want that much CD38. And it just consumes a lot of NAD. So it just sucks up like your NAD. And it doesn't need to, it doesn't need to. They don't need to live up there. You just, you need to bring them back up and share the resources.
- [37:50]
A
So the more CD38 we have, the less nad we have.
- [37:54]
B
The more CD38 you have, the less nad you have. Correct. And you don't want more CD38. It doesn't benefit the body. You need to have a little bit of CB38. Not, not, not much.
- [38:04]
A
One of the reasons that we have that natural decline, we get older, our body produces more CD38, which in turn lowers our NAD levels.
- [38:11]
B
Correct.
- [38:11]
A
Okay, there we go. That's the, that's the chain. All right. Okay. So theoretically, answer me, am I right or wrong here? When you take the NMN, it's going to help produce the more NAD. Will that lower the level of CD38?
- [38:27]
B
No.
- [38:28]
A
No. Okay. All right. So you're still fighting that fight.
- [38:32]
B
You're fighting two fights.
- [38:33]
A
Okay? Right.
- [38:34]
B
Your NAD production is coming down. And then CD38, there's this enzyme, this inflammatory enzyme is taking a lot of nad. So not only your NAD is coming down, your NAD consumption is going up. So the double edge, you know, you're getting hit from both ends.
- [38:54]
A
So something like NMN is at least compensating for that loss.
- [38:58]
B
Yeah, at least you're bringing your energy levels up.
- [39:00]
A
Okay.
- [39:00]
B
But you know, if you think about like a. Like a sink or a tub, so there's a leak somewhere. So you're filling the tub with water. Yeah, but there's a leak and the leaks. Leak is getting worse and worse. So you want to start closing that leak.
- [39:13]
A
I mean, how then do you plug that leak? Just by. By doing this, or is that.
- [39:17]
B
Well, we. We have. In our formula, we specifically have two ingredients that is specifically to bring down CD8.
- [39:24]
A
Tell me about those, please. That's obviously a key to this that people don't have in their supplement.
- [39:29]
B
Yeah. So one of them is hydroxy tyrosol. Actually, it's olive oil olive extract. And the main ingredient of that olive extract is hydroxyrosol. Very powerful antioxidants. Okay. But it also comes with some other polyphenols of olive oil. It's known to decrease CD38 production. And the other one is resveratrol. Okay, that's probably people have heard of before.
- [39:54]
A
Yeah. I take it.
- [39:55]
B
You take it. Okay.
- [39:56]
A
A high amount of it. You take a lot of it. Probably. Probably way more than most.
- [40:01]
B
It's not your body. We can probably get it.
- [40:03]
A
Yeah, no, I do. I do a gram of it. But you know, you know, most people, even the 500 could get expensive. But like I said, spend your money on your body.
- [40:11]
B
Yeah.
- [40:12]
A
So that's where I was going. What. What makes the Wonderfield product special as opposed to another quality, you know, control, that type of thing, you know. But you just really spoke on it, having those extra ingredients. Because if you go buy most NMN supplements and you look at the back, it's going to spread. It lists ingredients, it's going to say nmn. And that's it.
- [40:34]
B
You were still doing it. We're doing preclinical trials. Like, we look at lungs that are damaged lungs to see, like, you know, which of these ingredients are helping it. And then we compare it to like very powerful steroids, like some methasone. And, you know, so when we do the combination, or actually combination, really helps bringing the inflammation levels down. The one I bought, I'll be frank with you, the one, we know this, the synergy works. But like the ergothioneine, for instance, like, it's the one from the mushrooms, it does not work with CV38. As far as we know, it does not work with CV38. And that on its own, you know, people should just take it as a supplement. That was the conversation with, actually we had with Dave asprey He's like, oh, you have a good source. I'm like, yeah, it's like, why don't you sell this? Like it's on its own. I'm like, that's, I mean that's not what we do. Right? Right, yeah. You know, like eat more mushrooms. Literally, like good mushrooms. So this is something that actually in mother's milk, babies have receptors for it. And it's the only antioxidant that I know that actually stores in the body for up to 30 days where there's tissue damage. So it's an adaptive one. And as I explained earlier, they've done, actually they finished a clinical trial on Alzheimer patients and they benefited. They were just doing much better. So a baby from one year old to somebody who's nine years old with Alzheimer's benefit from it. We have specific receptors for it. It's super unstable. Like if we didn't have the receptor, we wouldn't be able to take it.
- [42:11]
A
Right.
- [42:11]
B
We have a very specific receptor, just like what the cell has a receptor for. So that is, that's in there. It works one way or another. But we still haven't exactly figured out what is, what is, how does it, what the mechanism is. But I highly recommend people just to take that on its own anyways.
- [42:29]
A
I love how when you explain something, how honest you are about it and you, everything you know, you know, and everything you're a little unsure about, but you think you, you, you put it out there and you're just flat ass honest with it.
- [42:40]
B
And I think I know what we don't know.
- [42:41]
A
I appreciate that because makes everything smooth and easy. And I want to ask you this, I know we've kind of covered this throughout, but I think it's important to just. Now that we've gone through, you know, the conversation, can you just give some of the biggest misconceptions of one that wants to take an NAD supplement?
- [43:03]
B
Number one, do not buy an NAD supplement if it does not have the precursor in it.
- [43:08]
A
Okay.
- [43:09]
B
So it has to be either NMN or nr.
- [43:11]
A
Okay.
- [43:13]
B
Everything else that people say, they're precursors, they're not properly studied. I don't know if they do anything, they may help a little bit. But science is pretty clear. NR and NMN are the precursors for nad. Don't buy nad. It does not work. Dose is critical. Like, you know, if you, you buy this with the intention, then get the right dose.
- [43:37]
A
Right.
- [43:38]
B
And another question is, you know, you want to make sure that what they say is in the product is in there. So try to buy from trusted companies. The trusted companies, they do pay attention to make sure that it's safe and it's, it has what it has in it. When it comes to the IVs and the injections, some people, they, they, they like it. They have good, good, good feedback. But if you're not one of them, you know, probably not for you. You know, I would love to see more studies on this thing so we can speak more intelligently about what it does, how much of it goes in. Yeah. What it activates. But I would rather take a capsule. It already does the job. We know it.
- [44:21]
A
Yeah.
- [44:22]
B
I like to add one more thing. Yeah. The expectation, like, why are you taking this? One of the key things is consistency. That's something people don't realize. They think they can take it like a few days here and there and they're going to see the benefits. I mean, some of our customers, they come back a year later, a year and a half later, talking about these massive changes, like these improvements. When I talk about the hair change in color doesn't happen overnight or the skin getting better. So consistency is key. And because your organs have been living without, like, with less NAD for so long, just, just bringing any levels back up doesn't make them automatically just work at their optimal level.
- [45:03]
A
Right.
- [45:03]
B
They need to, they need time to really, like, you know, get back into their optimal level of how they were performing, and then the results might take much longer. You know, this is like step by step, you are bringing back your NAD levels. Your body is getting used to it, your energy levels, your organs.
- [45:19]
A
Yeah.
- [45:20]
B
So it's a long process. So I think people miss that. Consistency is key.
- [45:25]
A
Or is there any kind of testing one can do?
- [45:27]
B
Do you really want to know NAD in tissue? That's where it matters.
- [45:30]
A
Okay.
- [45:31]
B
And that's very expensive to do because you have to take the tissue out, so it's not really readily available.
- [45:37]
A
Yeah.
- [45:38]
B
And then. And the blood test is not. That's. Not that. That not really doesn't give you the result that you want to know.
- [45:44]
A
Like you said, everybody wants inst.
- [45:47]
B
Yeah. Right.
- [45:47]
A
You know, and explaining to somebody that this is a marathon, it's not a sprint, and that it takes time. It's hard because it's. As a society, we just want now.
- [45:56]
B
We do.
- [45:57]
A
Everybody wants it now. You know, and even for me, it's hard. Even though I preach it, that I know sometimes I'm that way too. But the understanding of how this works, which you were just talking about, is it takes time. So this is maybe a two part question. One, when could someone expect to start to see transitional changes? Because like, okay, I'll relate this to HGH again. So when somebody takes hgh, it's stages of where you're going to see something start to happen for you. Like earlier stages you'll probably see sleep improvement, skin, hair, skin nails. But it takes time for you to start to see the fat loss benefits that everybody wants right now. And a lot of times you hold water initially and you got to wait, you know. And then with the lean muscle building for hgh, once again a misunderstanding and misconception and how long that takes. So with this, I know it's a battle for you and it is with, it's not just this, it's damn near everything that takes time. When would one start to see this? And then for someone, how long can they safely take it? How long should they take it?
- [47:01]
B
Yeah man, I should have pulled up to clinical paper or team published because they collected all the feedback and they categorized it. So the benefits are categorized. Like there's metabolic benefits, there's skin benefits, hairs, nails. I think with hairs and nails especially, most people start reporting after a month, two months, they start seeing some changes. Yeah, but the white hair thing is a different one. The energy depends, like their energy levels, how old they are. So some people start reporting within two weeks. Some people also the energy levels like they, they go up in such a small amounts every day. So they don't even realize that they have more energy sometimes because people forget how they were a month ago. People sleep better, but they don't think about it.
- [47:49]
A
I agree.
- [47:50]
B
So, but let me, let me think about it. There's a couple other things I wanted to mention again. There's so many benefits I keep forgetting about it and it's not the same for everyone.
- [47:58]
A
Right.
- [47:58]
B
Oh, so as far as like your blood work, you can look at your blood work. So if you do constant blood work, hopefully you can see some of your biomarkers improving. So that's a great way to track it. Another thing like people are really, really good at like paying attention to tracking. We highly recommend them to track actually before we have a survey that you can fill out and then there's a like survey of 15 days, 45 days, 90 days. So you can track it because your mind doesn't necessarily catch up with the changes.
- [48:28]
A
And people can probably go to your website and see it. Right on Wonderfield.
- [48:32]
B
Yes. We have a lot of nice articles there.
- [48:34]
A
Yeah. Oh yeah.
- [48:35]
B
A lot of clinical papers. I reference but or writers are really make it very easy to understand.
- [48:41]
A
And if I may, I would recommend reading, listening to anything Dr. Andrew Saltzman's done and I'll have him on my show too. We had to get you first. But I will talk to him too and get a little sciency and a.
- [48:53]
B
Little nervous out with him.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah, it'll be fun. But he's. He is a well known and recognized plethora of information and trusted person for information that I would recommend going if you want more intricate detailed science on NAD and in depth study and he works with you guys on things and it's been a pleasure to talk to him.
- [49:17]
B
He's loving it. He's been working in pharmaceuticals for so long. Yeah, he is just loving. It's like, oh, like we can see the results so quickly.
- [49:24]
A
He's the man.
- [49:25]
B
We'd really grab them from that pharmaceutical world and, and brought them into our world. We're still doing pharmaceuticals on the side, but not like that pharmaceutical goal of like maximizing profits like just because some doctors, they only believe in prescription. Yeah, we'll get you the prescription version of it.
- [49:40]
A
Right. But you know, so I met you at the convention. Are you going to be at more conventions? Like what's your plans the rest of the year and then how do people follow and get good information, you know, from you and are you posting regularly and putting new stuff up?
- [49:56]
B
Well, when you invite us, it becomes much more exciting to talk about. I mean they invited us. Dave Asprey and his team invited us to the convention. That's how we ended up there. Yes, but we don't necessarily do a lot of conventions. The Internet is easier to get the information out. But we have some wonderful partners, like some doctors, like Dr. Mark Hyman, his clinic, they love our product. They buy it, they give it to their patients. So it's organically growing beautifully. But we need to get out and inform people. We need to get out and talk about it. So we are trying to do that. I think in the next five years we're going to see much more of this product becoming more popular, which is a good thing. People need this. Hopefully it's going to be like vitamin D, which we have it in there because most people don't take it. Still, it's one of the easiest hacks like vitamin D, creatine. But you know, we need to get out there and inform the public. Thank you so much. And what you do, I think resonates with a lot of people.
- [50:58]
A
I appreciate it, man. I'm trying my best for everybody. Give me a quick. Before we go, run me down every ingredient in there so people can take note.
- [51:06]
B
Oh, sure. Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. NMN the right dose, 900mg is what we have. We have ergothioneine from mushrooms, so you know, all organic. And we have resveratrol that is usually in grapes, hydroxyrosol and the other polyphenols from really good olives and olive oil. And then the last one is. Just because most people don't get it, not everybody lives in Phoenix like you. Vitamin D3, right?
- [51:34]
A
And I learned the hard way on that one going out in the sun too much, man. My wife will tell you that right away. Knock me down. I got plenty of vitamin D, I assure you. So what's the best way to follow what you guys do? I mean like social media wise, your website, things like that working out.
- [51:53]
B
Catch you our website get wonderfield.com and our social media is also get Wonderfield. Sorry, Instagram. We only do Instagram right now.
- [52:04]
A
That's the spot.
- [52:05]
B
Spot?
- [52:06]
A
Oh yeah, that's the spot. That's my favorite. And then like I said, look for Dr. Saltzman. He's done several podcasts. He's got good information out there. He'll be on mine soon. And you know, read trusted information, that's all I can say. And get the right info and you'll learn, you'll do the right things. And this is a great product. I stand by it.
- [52:28]
B
You know, you've been taking as.
- [52:29]
A
Yeah. Being my wife. Both, you know, she uses it, I use it. We've been using it now since May. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mentioned May, so. Man, time flies. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, I wouldn't use it if it, you know, I. I'm a mitochondria freak and a cellular freak and. And understanding the correlation even more today from you and the importance with cellular health that that has and longevity. Dude, I want to live long, but I want it to be good and quality. I mean, what good is it living to 90, 100, 120, whatever people think we can go to if you're screwed up for most of it, right. So way to help you live a better life. So I appreciate what you do. I appreciate you coming out to see me and I just want to make sure more people know about you, man.
- [53:17]
B
Thank you so much. You got it. Appreciate it.
- [53:19]
A
Anytime, man. All right, everybody. Well, that wraps up another one. I hope you found this insightful, helpful and beneficial, which I'm sure you have. So stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli and Baron Delaver signing off.
- [53:37]
B
Sam.