← The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
The Dylan Gemelli Podcast
Episode #94 Dylan Gemelli Guest Appearance on the Biohacking Beauty Podcast! An epic discussion on peptides, botox, skin care, exosomes and more!!
01:01:57
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- [00:18]
A
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- [01:15]
B
Okay, Finally Dylan, welcome to the Biohacking Beauty podcast.
- [01:20]
A
It's great to be here, brother. It's always a pleasure to talk with you, man.
- [01:24]
B
Yeah, I. I mean you. We haven't known each other for a long time, I think like a few months and I, I'm ashamed to admit that I. I didn't know of beforehand I didn't know you're so popular but you are very popular I think in for information biohacking purveyor. And I'm wondering what is why? Kind of, it's a, kind of a weird question but why do you think that is? Like what, what, what do you think made you so successful within. Within that community?
- [01:53]
A
You know I started doing YouTube videos almost 15 years ago and immediately I think it was. One was the topic I was willing to discuss but I think two, it's the authenticity because it's just you get what you get. Like I don't play a role, I don't play a cartoon or a person. It's just straightforward and I, I really try to not only keep it real, but I like to just talk about such a variety of things and I'm really multifaceted. So I was in this industry and it was like I was screaming to be let out and to do so much more. And I have a lot to offer I think in a lot of areas. And, and another thing with the conversations I have, I'm a good talker, like communicator and you know, everybody's good at something and that just happens to be what I'm good at, man. And I think that I'm able to get people to listen to what I have to say, and I'm, I'm really good at spotlighting other people and you know, it's important when you have a conversation that it's a two way thing at, you know, and there has to be good relatability and credibility and I don't know, man, you know, I am a very spiritual, driven guy and I just try to do whatever God's telling me to do. At this point, it's not about Dylan anymore. It's just like I'm trying to do the best I can for everybody. And I think it's resonating, I really do.
- [03:15]
B
Yeah. Do you have a lot of people coming to you and asking, hey, you know, I actually don't know where to start, like, what is the direction I need to go and like take all ownership on my health or something like that?
- [03:27]
A
Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things that I've always gotten from the moment I ever started doing anything, how do I, how do I lose weight or where do I start, what do I do? And it's, there's certain aspects with health that are very standard, you know, get plenty of rest, you know, proper nutrition and things. But then, you know, this, there's different skin types for what you deal with. Right. So everybody's got a little different thing they may need. So for me it's like, well, structurally there's so many factors, your age, your, your genes, different aspects of like family history and health. So I always tell people, look, let's start here, let's get that rest, let's get outside in the morning, get some sun, let's walk, let's have good state of mind because you know, everything is mind, body connected and you know, this too with, and I'll relate it back to skin again because it's very relatable to what you do. It shows in your skin and your face when your health is off. Right. And when you're not resting. And it's an accumulation of things of non care. And so I always really try to start as basic as I can with people and not make it complicated or hard so they don't get scared. And then we just roll, man. And, and I'm always about accountability, but then also congratulatory on people that do well just understand like complacency is a terrible word. So when you're doing well with something, you don't just stop, you always celebrate it, but then move on, you know, just keep going because there's always something better you can do.
- [04:59]
B
Yeah, I agree. It's, you know, to your point, you can't unscramble an egg, right? Like if things have a falling apart and the base is not there, you're not getting your sleep, you're not getting your nutrition, whatever that is, your gut lining is destroyed, or, you know, you have a bad relationship with insulin. These are things that you can do all the fancy biohacks, but you're working against something that is so intrinsic, so fundamental that you know, and nothing. There is no steroid you can take that beats bad sleep.
- [05:34]
A
Nope. No, there is none. And you know that, that term. And, and I am enthralled in the biohacking sphere in the world, but people can be. And I had a good laugh with Dave Osprey about the polarization of the word and he said it's, you know, it's so stupid to think that and, but you have to correlate it with, people look at something like that and they think, oh wow, it's, you gotta spend 20 grand on technology and you have to do all of these crazy things. And that's just not it. It's, it's such a wide faceted word that has so many definitions to it that you just have to get around and realize that it's, it just comes down to your health and taking care of yourself and doing, doing it on your own, not relying on doctors and everything. They're necessary, they're needed. But you, no one's going to watch you 24 7. You know what I mean? You, me, everybody else, we're responsible for what we eat, how we sleep, how we live our life. And that's it. And it's, it's just figuring that out.
- [06:33]
B
First of all, I think there is a, there is a very, it's very hard for people to understand that more money doesn't equal more results per se, and that getting 50% there is significantly more simple or even 90% there is significantly more, more simple and more affordable than getting each percent past 90%. As far as like optimization. And that by the way applies to many parts of physics. It also applies to your electric vehicle. You charging your, your battery to 80% takes significantly shorter than charging the next 10 or 20%. Yeah, and, and by the way, financially as well, you know, your, your, your red light is like 5th 500 bucks. Whereas, you know, some of those crazy, you know, immortal, immortal beds is 125 bucks. Well, the difference in health optimization is like 2%. You know, that's right. So the problem is, is that people are saying, I'm in a really bad spot. I have a lot of money, let's say, like I've sacrificed my 20s, 30s, 40s, my health to, to gain a certain, you know, level of finances. And now I want to, you know, buy the hundred thousand dollar thing because I think it's going to overhaul my, my health. And that's a, that's an unhealthy relationship, I think with health optimization as a whole, but also with, with investment in,
- [08:05]
A
in that I have to agree. And, and I'm a finance business guy, background. Before all of this, I, I always go back to making your dollar go as far as it can, you know, and, and understanding that there are multitudes of ways to do very good, healthy things that don't have to be this big name brand or. I look, I've lived in that world, in that trap. I was a model and an actor for a very long time and I lived a very vain, ignorant, like idolatry type life to things, to clothes, all of this stuff. And I realized, like, what am I doing here? Like what, what is this Gucci shirt doing for me that the polo shirt isn't doing? And it's a 700 difference. I mean, what, what is it? What is it? Is it a stigma? I, I don't know, but I once I got a little bit older and realized that you can do so much more with so much less if you just do it wisely and carefully. And it a little bit goes a long way often in everything that we do now, there are certain things that I would always say spend more money on, spend the extra money on the good food, you know, the things that you're putting on your body, the skin cares, the things that are safer, the things that are proven. And that's just coming down to what's the most important to you? Can you do without the alcohol and spend it a little bit extra on the food? You know, things like that where it. I can't fathom not taking care of yourself first and balancing that out. It's kind of like this when you say, oh, I don't have time to work out. Well, go to bed a little bit earlier and get up a little bit earlier. You know, I mean, what's your priority here? What, what are you doing later at night that you could cut out instead? So it's, it's priority, brother. It always comes down to what's the most important to you and when you find what it is, you'll make it work.
- [09:57]
B
Yeah, yeah, indefinitely. And the one thing that I would say that you don't want to try to nickel and dime right now in the health world, I think is peptides, because. Oh yeah, I mean, and we've said it in this podcast like a few times, this is still. When you buy peptides today in the United States, they're. You're basically buying them for research only like they are not, they're not only that they're not regulated. Regulation says that you shouldn't be using them. So if you're using them, it is going against regulation per se. And that is a loophole really. Anyone could use. You could sell, you know, sawdust and collypeptides for that matter. It's as legal as selling you the real thing. So yeah, it's extremely. This is one area that I wouldn't try to save 10 bucks on a vial. Right.
- [10:51]
A
I don't know how much you know about my background, but I discovered peptides in 2011 working with different companies. That said, well, we'd like you to start doing some research on research chemical companies. And so I have probably some of the most intricate knowledge of any human that you will ever find in terms of the underground research SARMs, peptides, nootropic world, because I've been around it for 15 years and I'm talking knee deep. So I know exactly every little bit and piece that goes on within that community. And it's like for every 10 to 20 new companies that pops up that they pop up consistently. And I'm talking daily. If you do your research and know it, for every 10 to 20 of those, 1 to 2 will actually do intricate testing. And, and within those 1 to 2, maybe 1 will actually do it consistently every time they get products. Because every time these products come in, they're coming in from China.
- [11:51]
B
Yeah.
- [11:52]
A
And they're sending you fake coas, which stands for certificate of authenticity for anybody that doesn't know what that means. And I mean, if they're good at faking Louis Vuitton and Gucci bags, I'm pretty sure that they can put a paper together and make one. I mean, dude, I can go on Adobe and make you one right now. Gimme 20 minutes and 500 bucks and I'll have it to you. Right. It's for waste of my time. But there's, and, and here's another thing that I'm sure that some people aren't aware of. A lot of these testing companies, they get bought out and paid too. One of the biggest ones just got busted out about, I don't know, six months ago that everybody called the gold Standard that they were taking money to put out fake certificates for people.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So it's very difficult to get through. And, and you know, there is that fear because it says for research purpose only. Cause it's the only way you can sell it. And the FDA kind of picks and choose who they want to go after.
- [12:47]
B
Exactly. Actually, if you're very good, you're probably gonna get shut down.
- [12:51]
A
Yeah. They know. Trust me when I tell you they can get in Google Analytics, see who's getting all the traffic, who's spending all the money on the ads. They know how to do all of this. It's very simple. Once again, I could go get that done for us in 20 minutes. You see these people a, spending money putting out fake reviews because all those review sites are fake. We know this.
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B
Yeah.
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A
These press releases, they're fake if you go down and read where they're coming from. So there is such an abundance of bad actors out there that ruin it for the couple that do it. Right. And then they make it to where it's this danger zone, and rightfully so. Because they're hurting people. Because all they care about is making a couple bucks.
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B
Correct. Yeah.
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A
So I think, you know, I think
- [13:37]
B
it's even like to make it think scarier a little bit. I think we should all remember what happened. I think it was already 10 years ago with GMC GNC, where people in Long island were like elderly in Long island were getting liver failures.
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A
Yep.
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B
And they found out that B12 pills that GNC was selling were tainted with anabolic steroids from the, the contract manufacturer that was making the, you know, product for gnc. And then obviously faking tests, things like that. And people, again, like elderly people who were taking B12 supplements were, were, were ending up in the hospital with liver failure. It's very, not to excuse anyone, but it's actually very difficult to be a, even if you're well meaning to be at, like at the, at the top of your game all the time as a, as a retailer of those research compounds of those peptides.
- [14:32]
A
Well, it's pricey to go get stuff tested consistently. I can tell you right now that every time that you go as a research company, let's say that you get in a, a peptide powder and you want to go have it tested. Well, every time you get a batch and it's costing two and three hundred dollars to test, you start. A lot of people will go, oh, well, I see the cost of the raw materials, but they've never ran a business.
- [14:54]
B
Yeah.
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A
And when you Go up and down a business and see all the expenses that go along with it, the packaging, the, the employees, the, the facilities, it. By the time you're done, the margins are so low so they're cutting every corner they can.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You know, and you got to remember too when they get shipments sent over, a lot of times they get picked off. So they're losing the money they spent on it too because the borders take.
- [15:15]
B
But also like again, how many conversations like this are happening? You know, I think it's one to a hundred of people who are going to go online and look for Peptides even has the faintest idea, nevermind getting 5, 10 minutes into a conversation about the dangers of, you know, of these companies or of testing. How many people actually know that they should be not, you know, nickel and diming it. Right. Like you are definitely, you can't charge, you know, a hundred dollars when someone charges 30. And because you've decided to have all the testing, you will be making less money. That's about, that's the bottom line. It's very difficult to say I'm going to make less money over time, obviously.
- [15:56]
A
Well, especially when you see other people making a lot or you have made a lot and then something happens. I mean I could write a complete novel on this and people that would read it would be completely astounded at everything that I know that goes along within this whole system. And as I mentioned earlier, the thing now is it's like, well, somebody sees somebody else doing it and these companies just keep popping up and they keep popping up. And I know because I coach Peptides, I've worked with these companies and so it's part of my daily research. I do research on everything that I'm a part of. So that's one of the aspects of what I do. So I study every part of it, not just mechanisms of action and how things, things work, but I also look at, well, where are all these things coming from and how is it, how is it changing and how has it evolved from 2011 to today? And it's. When I started there was like six or seven peptides in the research world that you could pick from and that's it. So you know, like I've watched this grow into this monster and seen how it's changed because when we were doing it, it was only bodybuilders were looking at these and they, they were a joke to bodybuilders because in comparison to steroids and sarms, they were like the third level where you're not really gaining Any much muscle or you know, so seeing what they've become and how many different parts of our life and our well being and it's been such a like pleasure and fascination for me to watch and be a part of and you know, and seeing more doctors and people talking about them and seeing that it's for your mitochondria, your brain, your skin, it's not just about your growth hormone and getting tanned because that's all there was back then was melanitan and GHRPs, you know. So it's been pretty damn cool to watch and to be a part of.
- [17:53]
B
So yeah, before I'm asking you about like specific combinations and peptides, do you have any guidelines to choosing a good supplier or do you, you know, do you have just names that you like to work with? How do you suggest someone goes about it? Let's say we inspire them to go down, down that rabbit hole.
- [18:12]
A
So I actually have worked with a company closely because I know the owner and it's funny because, and I'm not trying to answer this like a politician, but I want, I, I want to like just give a little bit of background on what I've seen. So when I started I was like, man, I can't start promoting stuff I don't know about, you know. And so I studied them and learned about them. And these companies were so new at the time and, and so they were like, they were making stuff in their houses, in their kitchens, literally. Like no lie, they did not have facilities or anything. Plus it was so scary with the fda.
- [18:43]
B
Yeah.
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A
So a lot of these places, I mean I was going, I, I was actually seeing like how are they even sanitary, you know. And anyway, I got really sought after because I had millions of subscribers on YouTube listening to me and anybody I promoted was making hand over fist. And by the way, my channels got shut down back then. But that's a different worry. But yeah, twice and I. Millions of subscribers twice. You can imagine what that felt like. Yeah, so I rebuilt multiple times here. But anyway, I ended up finally after kind of start you know, being partners in some. I never ran my own, but I helped start companies because of my influence. Well, I got, I, I met a, a company in Arizona and it's called Umbrella Labs and I, he flew me down there and he has like a million dollar facility, like state of the art machinery. I mean I'm talking, this guy was on a whole different level of anything I'd ever seen. True manufacturer, true beautiful setup, everything tested, all these high end refrigerant Like I'm talking everything. They had their testing done on multiple places so it was double, triple checked. So they're spending a lot of money but their prices are a little higher. So that's the one place that I know because they've been around 10 years and I still, you know, give him advisory. I don't, I don't want to have my part like a role in these companies. I'm a little scared for me personally, but I do have a friendship and I do have my own personal use. If I ever want to use something that you can't go get prescribed from a compounding pharmacy because you know you can only get so much. But that company's called Umbrella Labs. That's really the only one that I will even consider if I do use anything because they've been around so long and I know because I've been there multiple times and seen how they do everything. But you know, that's, those are few and far between. Here's, here's what a lot of these places do amate is they, they source it this all stuff out. So a lot of the places that you see and that you buy from, you're buying the same thing from 20 different companies. They don't, people don't know that. So here I'm a sneaker head, right? So if I go to, to, if I go to champs or if I go to jail, like, you know, they're all the same locker. You'll notice they all have the same stock and everything because it's the same. They're all getting it from the same place. Well these places they'll go through. You think, oh I got such great quality from so and so. And it's like, brother, you're getting the same thing from them that you are from here.
- [21:13]
B
That's the NMN game, you know. Yes. NMN the to the top. The top 2,000 retailers of NMN supplements in the United States are getting it from one supplier in China.
- [21:29]
A
Yeah, it's bad. It's really bad. And what you just said is so true of so many of these places. They either have the same exact Chinese supplier that goes direct to them or they have a, like a, a company here that does their white labeling and they get it all from the same. And it's like all it is is it's the same product in a different bottle, you know, different label. That's it. That's it.
- [21:53]
B
So yeah, so that's actually great. I mean to be honest, it's a good, it's also a good it's refreshing to get like a straight answer is like here, this is the, what I know, this is the company I've been working with and I've seen results because you know, it's hard to go on a limb. To those who don't know, there was one big company that every doctor used to work with. They're, they were called tailor made. People might see advertisements now for a direct to consumer product called infiniwell. That's the same company.
- [22:25]
A
Yep.
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B
And if ever, and if ever anyone ever had true diagnostics test done, that's, that's the same company basically. But the FDA just waited, you know, bided their time. Then they were juicy and interesting enough and the FDA just raided them like one day and basically tore that company down. So it's scary to, to, to say to, to kind of associate yourself with anyone in that field. So that says a lot actually, which is great. So let's talk a little bit about actual peptides that, that, that are going to result at the end of the day more broadly with longevity, but also with skin. Yes. And I will start, I'll start us with something interesting that you said. And it's not, it's not a secret. Many people go on this path because they have some unsuccessful path. Like their path is unsuccessful as far as the, as far as their body composition. Well before GLP1s, many, many, many peptides that we now think of, of or that we now are using for longevity actually started as, as weight loss peptides and they weren't very successful. They were successful in other areas. But many of those started like that, right? Bots B or 5Amino, 1 MQ or you know, so more broadly, let's talk about like peptides that are just improving your overall health. What is your approach to them? How, how would someone, you know, use those tools just to get a better baseline of health, if you would.
- [24:08]
A
So I always do a little like quiz on people that come to me for, for general health. A lot of times when I, a lot of the same symptoms in the age ranges that I deal with and I always look at blood panels first mind you. But generally Ipamorellin and CJC 1295 are often combined and used together and those are gonna be ones that I am looking at for, you know, they're, they're, they do so many different things and, and a lot of it will revolve and if people don't know they're like growth releasing hormone peptides. So what that means is, is when you take exogenous hgh, you're taking actual hgh, you're taking a synthetic form to get more, you know, body. Yes. Human growth hormones. So with releasing hormone peptide, you're allowing your body to naturally release it on its own. So, you know, it's, it's actually a heck of a lot better because you're, you're having your body do it on its own than taking something like I, I'm on testosterone replacement therapy, so I'm taking it exogenously to get my body to produce it. Right. So, but these are kind of two that are the most commonly prescribed. If you go to a clinic or things of that nature more often than not. And this, especially a few years ago, these were the ones that you were gonna get prescribed the most. And there's, there's multitudes of studies that I'd have to pull up for you on what they do because these have been around for so long. These were actually around back in 2011 when I was talking about that. But there's things that go so far as to thyroid function, heart function, what's intestine function. There's other things because people look at these and they're like, well, they help with lean muscle, they help with your sleep. They could, you know, they, they do provide what you would call some anti aging type benefits because they do, I mean, secondarily, you're sleeping better, it's improving your skin, but you know, these are kind of your basic ones that I look at. But then what's the most popular thing everybody talks about it's BPC. Right. So everybody talks about BPC 157. But when everybody looks at it, I guess most people that look at it, they're going after it for the healing. Okay. So the main reason that it got so popular so fast was because so many athletes are using it and they're speeding up their healing.
- [26:38]
B
Yeah.
- [26:38]
A
I can't tell you how many, how many different athletes come to me, I'm, I've got this severe injury and like a torn ACL or something serious. And they think in their head that this is going to make them heal in three months like the Terminator. And I'm like, you know, just temper your expectations. But, but it does speed up recovery and enhance it. And, and it's called body protective compound. Right. So of course, if you learn about it. But it, it does so many other things.
- [27:09]
B
It's really cool. I think it's important to some. Sometimes we can trace down a peptide for kind of where it comes from. Then things are like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. So. So first of all, anyone who's listening to the podcast know that I say that peptides are like computer codes. They're basically like the ways, the ways that our body kind of relays signals around. And the thing about BBC 157 is that it's a natural computer code in our body to heal the gut lining when it's getting damaged. So guess what our gut lining is made out of? Mostly it's collagen. And that's why, you know, when we, when we inject it, you know, into the, you know, can bypass the gut, because you could take it also, you know, you're talking about 2011. I don't know when integrative peptides. Shout out to. Integrative peptides came out with like a, with a pill version, but there are pill versions of it, there are oral versions of it. They work less well for over overall body healing.
- [28:09]
A
That's right.
- [28:12]
B
So when you kind of bypass the gut and these peptides swim around and find areas of inflammation to kind of correspond with what they're saying, in other words, is, hey, less lower inflammation. Like anything that they would. That they think that they don't. They were giving them a little bit of life, but anywhere that they think they're in their gut and like, oh my God, there's an injury here, they're gonna do what they've. They're doing in the guts. Like, hey, let's bring more collagen here, let's grow some blood vessels, let's lower inflammation, let's resolve inflammation more than lower, which is way more important. So it's really cool to understand, like what they, where they're naturally at their natural habitat, if you would, and what they do in other habitats because they think that they're there. So that's a, that's a really cool, really cool peptide, which now, by the way, is getting roped into this. Uh, I just saw some famous model go to her integrative doctor and he was giving her GHKCU, BPC 157 and TB 500 is some kind of a Glow. Glow globe.
- [29:19]
A
Yep.
- [29:19]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, it's. It's being used a lot for, for beauty as well.
- [29:26]
A
So there's a product called Glow, which you just mentioned, and then there's one they call KLO with a K because it has KPV in it as well. Yeah. So those are the two big ones going around right now. I am a very big fan of kpv and I love that combo. I Do want to touch on something real quick that you brought up that's very important when we were talking about the capsule or the oral form of bpc, because I know a lot of people don't like to inject and it does get annoying, but I do want to make it very clear that injection is by far the most superior form of it. Now, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, and I wanted to bring this up before I get into some oral data, but there is that. The company I brought up, Umbrella Labs, they did a cream of BPC and TB500 and that's what I use. And that is so easy and so nice because it's very efficient without the injection because, man, I've been injecting so long, I get sick of it and it is annoying. So I do get that for people. But, but I do want to make sure people do understand that's going to be the, the, you're going to have the highest efficacy. The, the, the capsule started getting a little bit more popular or at least coming around right after. Around Covid a little before that, where people were kind of experimenting with it and they got more prevalent a couple years ago. I, I don't like it because there's really low bioavailability because of the breakdown of the stomach acid. Right. Yeah. And, and I'm a data guy. I know you're a data guy. There's really not much research aside from just people and, you know, how people can imagine things or doing something that maybe not.
- [31:06]
B
To be honest, I'm a little worried because they're, they're starting to incorporate ingredients there that delay its breakdown. Yes. And that's actually bad for your, for your gut to have these ingredients kind of running around.
- [31:21]
A
I agree. And that's a concern. And also you're, you're depending and hoping that these places that are pressing the capsules actually know what they're putting in there. And I've seen firsthand how some of these people press, and it's scary. I would never like. When I saw that, I was like, okay, I'm never ordering any capsule of any kind from any company whatsoever. It took me a long time to get over it. You know, injectable is going to have highest bioavailability and you, you get a direct action when you inject it into an injury of wherever it's injured or inflamed. Right. And then there's good, good veterinary and animal studies that were done on it. So.
- [32:00]
B
But, you know, yeah, I would say one thing since we're also kind of talking about a compound. And I love the fact that you were like, hey, this is a compound. This is the best way to kind of consume it. Mm. I think consistency is the, is key here and to understand you're going to a, like a 90 day, you know, six, six loading phase, like six weeks before you really feel anything. And then you're running another six weeks, let's say, of kind of enjoying the benefits and then you need to not do it for a couple months. There are, there are other ways. You mentioned oral or you mentioned cream, but I, I'm starting to see two things that I think are less like, they're a little disingenuous with most peptides. First is IVs, and the second is straight kind of to the face injections. And both of those, they just don't follow the mechanism or the data behind how you should load those. So I'll let you talk about IVs, but I can tell you what I've seen with, with estheticians or practitioners injecting them into the face as a kind of a rejuvenation treatment. Peptides don't work. Like you can't just do it once a month and expect anything to happen. So, you know, using it, like injecting it daily, using it daily, building it up in your system is the way to go rather than, you know, going to someone to inject it into you once a month.
- [33:30]
A
So when you take steroids, specifically testosterone, it comes with what's called an estro chain, right? So that's like a delayed onset release. So like on trt, ideally you take testosterone cypionate because it's like a seven to eight to eight day half life. And theoretically you take it once a week and you know, you're good throughout the week. I don't prefer that because you still have this. There's a peak and a trough. And so when you hit that trough four or five days into the week, so if I go get my blood panel tested day of injection as opposed to five days later, it's like, whoa.
- [34:07]
B
Yeah.
- [34:07]
A
And that can give you a up and down feeling. Well, you know, these peptides, they don't have these ester chains attached and they don't have long half lives, you know, So I mean, if you don't take it consistently well, what happens when you're not consistent, you have inconsistent or negligible result. And you know that they market all of these things and these methods and these strategies that they really don't know about. And people are easily manipulated, and rightfully so, because people don't have 70 hours in a day to research every little thing. And you know, you're going to take. Unfortunately, a lot of people more often than not are just going to take the word of it, of what they're told. And that's part of the reason I do what I do and I try to touch on so many different areas is because I'm trying to put out information to help people have it readily available to them where they could just click, listen and go, wow, I better not do this. You know, and it's important that we have conversations like this because people don't know where to go for this info. And like we were talking earlier, there's a lot of sites out there that are saying things that aren't true just to get you to do whatever. And yeah, so have. Have an incredible loud voice. And when I say loud, not obnoxious, but a heard one, you know, it's. It's important, man. And that's why I love this conversation we're having because it's bringing to light a lot of stuff that most people. I would say what you said, 99% of the people, 99.5 would have no clue about most of the stuff we're talking about underground, especially.
- [35:45]
B
Yeah, and, yeah. And, and even in this conversation, we. We have to almost like bob and weave between, hey, you should use this. This is great. These are the results that you can get. Hey, this is, by the way, what you shouldn't be doing. But look over here. This is also great, you know, so, you know, I. To be honest with you, I wish, you know, this podcast obviously is, you know, we're a skincare company that's making a podcast, but a lot of people, including people within our own company, especially our marketing team, were like, hey, you're not talking about products enough. I'm like, look, there's so much information we have to provide to people. We almost are in a podcast company with an, With a monetization excuse to make sure that we have information that, that we can support that information. But I do want to go back to GLOW and clo, because I have seen them. I'm actually extremely surprised by the explosion or. Or by the first of all, amazing results, but also explosion in interest to these kind of like, no pun intended, these umbrella peptides, right?
- [36:53]
A
Yes.
- [36:53]
B
So we talk about BPC 157. Obviously the hero ingredient in there is GHKCU copper peptide. Right?
- [37:02]
A
Love Ghku, man.
- [37:04]
B
Dude, we. We Incorporate it in a lot of products. And we are deep into research because we, again, as you said, creams are great. They're just never as effective as injections. You know, holistically.
- [37:18]
A
Yeah.
- [37:18]
B
We're half of what we do is we try to figure out how to complex it with other peptides to make it more effective. But let's talk about like, why would that be a hero ingredient to inject? What's going on there that. That makes it so effective?
- [37:33]
A
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I really got more into GHKU about two years ago. And just, just a little bit of background on me. I am not anywhere even in the realm of skin expert like you whatsoever. However, I've been modeling since I was 23. And so I have been taking care of my skin, but way more than you would see. Most women take care of their skin. So I do have a little bit of insight. So my point in saying that is, is that I've anything that has anything to do with skin, I'm ultra fascinated. Okay. Right from the jump. So, of course, this was appealing to me when I first started to kind of take notice of it. And it's not in, it's not in my supreme wheelhouse because I've studied hormones for so long, but I do know a great deal about it. So into it. Anti aging, I think is the obvious that people are looking for with it when they're first attracted to it. Right. Because it's, it's going to stimulate collagen and elastin production. And that's going to really help improve your firmness, your skin firmness just going to help reduce wrinkles. Right. Skin regeneration, though, is another thing that it does that is appealing to people because it can repair damaged skin cells. Right. And it's going to improve your structure of your skin. So you'll notice that. And then it's got antioxid oxidative protectants in it. So it, it, it's going to protect your skin cells from like oxidative damage and stress.
- [39:02]
B
Yeah.
- [39:02]
A
And it, it can improve the skin texture, which is another thing that you notice, you know, helps smooth out rough skin.
- [39:09]
B
I'll tell you what. One, one thing that is important. Another, like win into the co. Like another check mark to the column of injectable version versus versus topical is you with ghkcu topically, you need to pick your poison where if you go over, let's say 2 to 3%, 2% if you are buying it from a less reputable source, 3% if you're buying like pharmaceutical grade towards 5%, you're going to start stimulating hair growth. And so there is a limit to how, how much you, you can have in skincare. When you inject it, you are actually getting great hair growth results or you're getting hair health results, the scalp health results, without growing hair in places that you wouldn't want. So I think it's, there's, there's that which is kind of cool, where you could get into this looking for skin rejuvenation but also getting fantastic hair alongside it.
- [40:13]
A
Absolutely. And beyond the skin care there is like there is some other benefits and that's why it's incorporated into this, because there is wound healing as a benefit that people probably don't even think about. Right. And like you said, there's anti inflammatory properties there too. So that's why these are very synergistic when they go together. This wasn't just something that just got pieced and thrown together. There's a reason that there's a function of either all three or all four, depending on if you're doing glow or clo. And if I may, if you don't mind, I would just like to touch on KPV real quick and how it fits into this equation. So one of the things that I love about KPV is that it heals and supports gut health. You brought it up at the beginning. I constantly bring it up. I've had so many experts talk about gut health and it's finally becoming more prevalently understood on how serious this is in terms of our health. I would argue that mitochondria, cellular function and health and then gut are the two things that are like the either going to make or break our life. Right. I mean in reality, and so we're talking about gut health, but then reduction of inflammation with kpv, immune balance, skin conditions, so psoriasis, dermatitis, these, there's benefits in skin conditions like that. What's another one? Eczema. Eczema. And I don't want to talk about COVID by any stretch of the imagination.
- [41:44]
B
Rosacea as well, by the way, before you mention it, rosacea. I mean I've seen crazy results with kpv. Even topical kpv. Yes, even. Even people reconstituting it into just sprayers and spraying it on their face.
- [41:59]
A
Yes, yes, there's been people, and this is not just Covid related, but people with long covet. Because I don't want to do that, I don't want to get in that. But I'm just speaking on what I've seen post viral inflammation fatigue. People are using it to help with all of that and it's helping. I'm not saying it's a cure for Covid by any stretch, but I'm saying it's helping. Yeah And I if you ask me, I would always opt for the one that has KPV in it. Always. I would never leave that out. I think I have a series on the top 10 peptides you don't know about but need to know about that I'm working on and this is directly in there. It's one of my favorite topics to even get into. I think that it is going to be sooner than later. One of the most widely used and popular peptides out there.
- [42:46]
B
I really do so personal story. I obviously I do jiu jitsu most of the day. That's what I do. And I got a huge Anyone listening to this podcast, I don't know if you can see like over my eyebrow over here. You can't really see. That's the entire point. I got a huge gash under my eye, completely open under my eyebrow and shout out to Integrative Oasis, a ways spa in California where I was vaguely aware of kpv but I, I, it wasn't something that I thought you could just spray topically. He's like hey, you should do this. You should, you should, you know, mix ghkc, ok P V. Spray it on your on on the injury site. And another thing is it was because it was there was some holiday. I don't remember what but it was taped really badly. It wasn't stitched. Some ER doctor just taped over it. It looked horrible. When I say horrible, it looked like my one and a half year old did it something third, third world country type, something not great. And I sprayed it over it for like eight weeks and people don't believe I show photos of before and after. People think there is AI involved. It's insane.
- [44:03]
A
Oh man, I love hearing that. It's so, so, so, so cool to hear that because I think that while it's gaining steam enough people don't know about it. I, I have a question for you.
- [44:14]
B
Yeah.
- [44:15]
A
Have you heard of Snap8?
- [44:18]
B
Of course. Yeah. So we use Snap8 within, within the consideration of what we call neuromodulating peptides which is basically you could think of mini topical botoxes.
- [44:33]
A
Yes.
- [44:34]
B
Argirelin is like the most widely used one and Lufacil probably the is the Most effective one. Snap8 we found that when the skin is thinner, like around the eyes. It works fantastically. And then when the skin is thicker, we need to use peptides that can have affinity to oil to fats. So argirelin has a version of it that is oil soluble, which may. And lufasoto which makes it easier to use within that framework because around the eyes you could get away with more like a hydrophilic, like a water soluble Peptides. Yes, by the way, copper peptides. Same things, copper peptide. You could have another little molecule structure there which makes it both loving water and oil. Yeah, but which, when, when I mentioned before that we're really looking at ways to manipulate copper peptide to make it, you know, having, have better penetration. That's one of the things that we're doing.
- [45:35]
A
Yes, 100%. I, I always, I was telling when it was coming out and I was learning more about it, I said if you're going to market this, you have to market it better than Botox. But you have to explain why and you have to into it.
- [45:48]
B
I'll tell you what I like the most out of the neuromodulator peptides. It is not it. You know, I'm biased.
- [45:58]
A
Yeah.
- [45:59]
B
When, when I say I'm biased, I am. What would speak to me or what would excite me is when you're going to talk to me about someone using a product for three to five years and then getting the full, the full benefits. If you're telling me this was great after 12 and you can't talk to me about further results, I, I'm not going to be as interested. And what is really cool about neuromodulator? So what is really cool about those peptides that what they're doing is they're sitting on the nerves that fire and make your muscles contract and they're making them get tired like really fast. Not by the way physically, but chemically they're the thing that the, the, the, the conductivity of them becomes kind of gets worn down very fast. So there's no adverse effect. We're just going through more conductive material faster. What happens is that you are also getting, you know, 10 to 20% of the results that Botox is. But more than that, you're getting non repetitive folding of the skin. The way that we get wrinkles is like, you know, bending any flexible material in the same spot over and over and over again. You're weakening the material only where you bent it so by having the skin basically fold in different areas because other nerves are, are less, less tired. So they're gonna be the ones who fire. You're accumulating less wrinkles over time. That's the important aspect for us. It's not only the, oh, you're gonna have less wrinkles after X amount of time. Yes, you get that. But you get other ones, those benefits as well. I hope I may explain that.
- [47:50]
A
Well, no, no, you. Perfect. Of course I, I've been getting Botox for quite a long time and I've tested different types d sport, you know. And the last time I went, I, because I just moved cross country here so I had to find a new place. And the doctor I found literally the most incredible one that I've ever come across that does, you know, injections. And she's on a different level of intelligent and she had the, the, she said, why don't you try this Daxify because it's peptide powdered. And I tried it and I mean I really, really like it. I'm, I'm hoping that it's, it was. I'm a fast responder to everything I do. I always have been. But I've noticed it really take effect right away and it's been really nice and it was a nice alternative. I don't know anything about it. I'm just kind of learning about it. But I, you know, it's powered by some sort of peptide. So I was definitely on board to try it. And I also just for the first time I did a micro, micro needling but it was like the vampire one. So I did the PRP and man, I really noticed. I'm like, shit, like I'm going to be doing this.
- [48:54]
B
Yeah, two scoops. Yeah, but fill me in. Two scoops. First scoop is actually a longer term. We're working with a French company, really cool company. If anyone knows, shout out to Oneskin, our friends, they have a skincare company. Normally we don't, you know, talk about competitors, but they're shishibo, they're our friends. So what One Skin did is something really, really cool. They went over like 900 peptides and they understood which peptides are going to work well for Senescence. And then you obviously have a lot of science, you need to go after that. But that is a, that's a good way to start. There is another French company who does it. Not going to mention their names because it's not ripe yet. I can't, you know, there's. But that does it. Instead of like 900 peptides, tens of thousands of peptides, the same thing, same thing that you were talking about. With daxify, where we're using peptides to kind of infiltrate the signaling system in our skin to stop some of the contractions from happening. This is literally the same, but you can apply it topically and it would do it for collagen production. It's really, really cool.
- [50:03]
A
Wow.
- [50:03]
B
But it's going to take, it's going to take a while for us to integrate it. But this company is amazing. Aside from the fact that it costs a fortune to do, which is our problem.
- [50:13]
A
Right.
- [50:14]
B
It's, it's a really cool, it's a really cool endeavor. That's long term, but short term. Since you mentioned vampire facial or PRP microneedling, basically we're coming up by. Probably by the time this podcast out, we're already going to have it out. We're coming out with PRP derived exosome.
- [50:31]
A
Really?
- [50:32]
B
Yeah. What's insane about PRP derived exosome is that most people don't understand that exosomes are not what you're looking looking for. Exosomes bring into the skin what you're looking for.
- [50:44]
A
Right.
- [50:44]
B
Which is growth factors, proteins, and mainly micrornas. Micrornas are basically the same thing that we've been talking about far as far as peptides, like computer codes, but on a DNA level rather than on a cellular level. It's like a deeper, more profound impact. So when you talk about peptides and exactly like peptides, there is a lot of different micrornas. So the reason PRP derived exosomes, which is the reason that you by the way, got the results from that PRP facial that you have. Yeah. Is that this is the exosomes that are expressed when injury is happening. And exactly like we talked about BPC157, what happens when injury is happening, that's when we express like collagen production, elastin production, we lower inflammation, we bring more blood, whatever that is, the further you go out, zoom out of it. If you do it from, you know, fat tissue, bone marrow, umbilical cord, or God forbid from plants, because that's useless. You are getting less and less close to that specific response. You get differential responses. If you're talking about plants, you're going to get only anti antioxidant type micrornas. If you're talking about fat, you're going to get like a really just kind of a health benefit as a whole. But you're not really communicating the language of let's make more collagen over here.
- [52:05]
A
Right, right, right.
- [52:06]
B
So there are about six studies showing that PRP Derived or platelet derived exosomes are comparable to having a, a PRP facial or, or a vampire facial just by applying it on. So you're basically doing vampire facial at home. And, and that's by the way, this, this is really well substantiated.
- [52:28]
A
Dude, I have to get my hands on.
- [52:30]
B
We're gonna send you one, don't worry. And so you know how we're gonna call them, how the product is called. I actually have just the bottle here.
- [52:38]
A
Let me see.
- [52:39]
B
Casing. So let me. Sold.
- [52:43]
A
No way.
- [52:44]
B
I love it.
- [52:45]
A
I had no idea.
- [52:46]
B
That was sweet.
- [52:47]
A
I brought that up then, huh? Perfect timing.
- [52:50]
B
No, I, I heard it here first. That's right.
- [52:53]
A
One of the things that, because I got introduced to you through a couple people that I highly respect, and I mean our conversation when I met you, I immediately, I was like, I told my wife, I love this guy. Like when I left, like, you're just my kind of guy. But I could tell listening to the passion and aside from the obvious knowledge that that's a given when you start talking to you about it, but the passion that you had behind it, but the way that you guys, you and your wife seem so innovative with the products and you weren't just settling on a couple things or. You know, a lot of these companies, they sell expensive products and I never see anything different. And when they do, it's rare and it's not really innovative and there's not a lot behind it. They're not looking for new methodologies, technologies, new ingredients or combinations, whatever the case, you know, and I, I could tell that right away. And I was like, man, this is, this is how I operate. So that's kind of what drew me to you in the first place, was the similarities in thinking and then the passion behind the concept. Right?
- [54:02]
B
Listen, to be honest, this is because we made it. The, this company is made for people like you or people who, you know, listen to this podcast. Like, we're not for everyone. It's really okay. It's a hundred percent. It's fine. I'm not saying, oh, we're the Lamborghini or Ferrari, Ferrari and someone else is a Toyota. I'm not saying that. But the same way you're going to talk about cars, clothes, anything that people choose where they put their money in, and they're not, you know, obligated for whatever reason. We are a company that is designed or that is that it's credo is innovation coupled with, you know, well, substantiated science. Some other people, they care about different things. It could be, by the way, price, it could be that some people care about. What's the least I can spend to get nice results? As we said, as we said, you know, it's much cheaper to go to 80% than to 90%.
- [54:55]
A
That's right, yeah.
- [54:56]
B
So unfor, you know, unfortunately it costs a lot of money to get to whatever, 95% or what, however you would describe us.
- [55:04]
A
You didn't ask this, but I'm going to do this because I want to point this out and this is why I brought this up. Because I, I still use certain things. I incorporate a multifaceted regimen. I have some hypopigmentation, so I use like an even and correct. But I stopped using skin Medica, aside from that product. And then I, you know, timeline's my biggest partner. So I use their serum and their creams. But I have a couple that I have of yours. One of them is this amplifying essence. And because it does such a multitude of things and it's completely different than anything I've ever seen. And the other one that I love because I'm a mask, guys, this one, this hyperbaric mask, man, I love this. Every time I have an important thing, like last night before I did this, did, I lined myself up and I put this on, you know, and I only use that when I got something really important, you know, coming the day before. I don't think you should overuse masks, so to speak. But that thing, I love that, man. Like ED is legit and I, I'm a big fan of your cleanser. Yeah, it's very gentle and it's, it's nice on the skin and I like that because look, it's kind of like the people that tell me, oh, all protein powders are the same. Like bro, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And it's the same thing with cleansers. Like you'll see a 50,000 of them, but there's so many different ones. I don't know the science behind all of it, but I do know the quality and the care and what's the ingredients. And yeah, I a hundred percent agree.
- [56:28]
B
And yeah, thank you. It's super, super nice to hear. Oh yeah, Ethan, we're going to have to get you to part two because we're, I mean it's been an hour and I blinked twice.
- [56:41]
A
I know.
- [56:42]
B
But I do want to ask you some rapid fire questions to try and cover many things that we didn't cover. So let's see if we can give quick answers here. Okay. What's the biggest mistake people make with skincare that reminds you of mistakes that people make in fitness?
- [57:01]
A
Just the consistency. It's consistency, you know, not staying consistent with eating and training, not can staying consistent with doing your morning and evening regimen and oh, I didn't do it today, it's fine. Or I didn't do it the next day, fine. Well, no, it's not. It's not fine.
- [57:17]
B
Yeah, I agree. You know, in the same vein of like translating performance optimization to skin, what do you think the MO is the most underrated habits for skin longevity that, you know, learned from performance optimization.
- [57:31]
A
Sleep, 100% sleep. Sleep and then not drinking alcohol. Those would be, yeah, you know, life, I guess, let's just call it lifestyle. But definitely is number one.
- [57:42]
B
Well, alcohol also fucks up your sleep, so. Yeah, exactly. What do you wish more people knew about how hormones affect skin health and aging?
- [57:53]
A
Well, anytime you're not hormonally optimized, everything's going to be off you. You can take every skin product, you can take every supplement, you can take GLP1. I don't care what it is. If your hormones are messed up, it causes everything to be off really quick. If you're like, when people take testosterone or steroids immediately, like their hormones are messed up, acne, things like that start to come and obviously that's an influx of, of hormone. But if they're off, things like that, you're gonna notice problems and it'll show in your face and your skin.
- [58:24]
B
Love it. Yes. Let's talk about your model days. What is like, one thing that you did that you learned during your early time as a person that makes a living off of how they look, that you still do to this day, and you feel like is something that more people should know about?
- [58:48]
A
It's really the regiment, man. It's like staying like we just talked about the consistent regiment. I was partying a lot, I was doing a lot of things I shouldn't have been doing and I'd wake up late and be in a hurry. Wouldn't do my skin. And over time especially, you can get away with things when you're young to a point, but you can still see that, that lack of consistency and accountability, man, it shows and it shows fast.
- [59:12]
B
Okay, last one. What breakthrough in biohacking do you think will change the way we approach longevity in the next five years?
- [59:20]
A
I honestly think that peptides are going to become more mainstream, widely used, widely implemented, widely prescribed and widely accepted. And I Think when that happens, you're going to see a drastic change in healthcare and the amount of people actually needing to be staying on medications and in being into the system, so to speak. I think you'll see a drastic change when it's more widely acceptable.
- [59:45]
B
I agree. And exactly like, like multi use, multi use preloaded pens. Right now that we're to see, I can't wait to see how much easier administering, administer, administering peptides will be. You know, in, in five years I
- [60:04]
A
sat in on some conferences at A4M and I've sat with some of the biggest, brightest, most intelligent scientists and they're working on many different mechanisms of, of taking these especially topical forms and they're perfecting it, they're testing it and they're working on it. And it will come. I mean it certainly will. It's, it takes time, but it's, it's on the horizon. And I've got people I'm going to be interviewing soon that are like knee deep into it.
- [60:29]
B
Fantastic. Listen, Dylan, it's been almost as, as great as talking to in person. I super appreciate the time that you gave us and I can't wait to do part two and to have many more conversations with you.
- [60:42]
A
Dude, I love you. I love you. I love your wife. I love what you guys do. You know that My wife loves you guys and it's just been meeting you has been so tremendous and I having somebody like you in my life is amazing and I'm so, so glad I got the time to talk to you, man.
- [60:56]
B
It's mutual. Last. But before we go, how do we kind of, how do people learn more? You know, follow you, etc?
- [61:04]
A
Yeah, my website's just about done. It's up. It's not fully complete. Dylan jelly.com My Dylan jamelli podcast on Apple and then I'm at. Dylan Jamel, Instagram is my where I'm at. I have TikTok. I don't, don't expect to get an answer from me. There's. But Instagram, I make it a point to do all of my own social media. I know a lot of people don't and I do my damnedest to get back to people the best I can.
- [61:31]
B
So that's impressive. Okay, Dylan, thank you again. It's been a pleasure and we will talk again soon.
- [61:38]
A
Thanks brother.
- [61:39]
B
Bye. Take care.
- [61:47]
A
Sam.