In this conversation, Matti Friedman reflects on the power of foundation stories to shape how we understand ourselves and where we come from – from Noah’s Ark, to the origins of the Bible, to Hannah Senesh and the other parachutists who landed in Nazi Europe during World War II. We also talk about what happens when we look more closely at these myths and encounter the flawed, human figures behind them - and why that often deepens, rather than diminishes, our admiration for their courage. Along the way, we also discuss Matti’s particular perspective as a Western-born journalist living in Israel, Michel Houellebecq’s Submission, and the gift of reading poetry in uncertain times.

Matti’s latest book, Out of the Sky: Heroism and Rebirth in Nazi Europe, has been awarded the Natan Notable Book award for Winter 2026 and was released last week.

In Out of the Sky, Matti Friedman unravels one of the strangest episodes of World War II: In 1944, a team of young women and men who had escaped the Holocaust made the inconceivable choice to parachute back into Nazi-occupied Europe under the cover of a British military operation.

Matti Friedman is the author of five works of nonfiction that have been translated into more than a dozen languages, each of which has appeared on numerous ‘best books of the year’ lists and have been awarded prizes and accolades including the Sami Rohr Prize, the ALA’s Sophie Brody Medal, and the Canadian Jewish Book Award, and more. Matti is a former Associated Press correspondent, his work has appeared in the New York Times, Smithsonian Magazine, the Atlantic, and elsewhere. He currently writes from Israel for The Free Press.

Matti Friedman's Five Books:

1. The Bible - Parshat Noach, the Story of Noah

2. Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Friedman

3. Submission by Michel Houellebecq

4. Hebrew poetry by Yehuda Amichai and Lea Goldberg

5. Out of the Sky: Heroism and Rebirth in Nazi Europe by Matti Friedman

Other Media Mentioned:

HHhH by Laurent Binet

Eli Eli, recorded by Ofra Haza and the Hatikva Neighbourhood Workshop Theatre

Stay tuned at the end of the episode for a reflection on Philip Roth’s Operation Shylock with designer and friend of the podcast Dov Abramson.

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The Five Books is a podcast that celebrates the role of books in Jewish culture. Through author interviews, we delve into Jewish identity and discover each author’s favorite novels. Join us every week for new Jewish book recommendations! Some of our episodes have included conversations with Rabbi Angela Buchdahl (Senior Rabbi at Central Synagogue, and author of Heart of a Stranger) Yael Van Der Wouden (author of The Safekeep), and Dara Horn (author of People Love Dead Jews.)

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Hosted by Tali Rosenblatt Cohen

Produced by Odelia Rubin

Editorial and website support by Amelia Merrill

Artwork by Elad Lifshitz of the Dov Abramson Studio

Music by Dov Rosenblatt and Blue Dot Sessions

Thank you to Rob Mank

Thank you to Felicia Herman and David Ben-Ur for their generous support.

Matti Friedman On the Stories that Built a People