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The Good Question Podcast
Building Lovesac Shawn D. Nelson On Entrepreneurship, Failure & Creating A Lasting Brand
00:15:59
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- [00:01]
A
You're listening to the Good Question Podcast with Richard Jacobs. Our goal is to make each of our guests exclaim, hmm, that's a good question. I don't know the answer. Because when that happens, it means you, the listener, may be inspired to learn more beyond the interview and to ask great questions yourself that lead to new insights. In this podcast, we cover historical and current anthropology, comparative religion and history. Welcome. And let's get started.
- [00:36]
B
Hello, this is Richard Jacobs with the Good Question podcast. I've got a really cool guest today, Sean D. Nelson. He's a bestselling author. He has a podcast called Let me save you 25 years, which sounds promising, especially if you're older. When you're younger, you probably won't listen to it, as my guess, but when you're older and you realize, oops, then you'll probably listen to it more. So I look forward to doing so. Sean's known best because he's the founder behind Lovesac. You know, those huge, I don't know, Styrofoam filled, whatever that filled sacks that you could flop onto. I've seen those for many, many years. In college we had them, and they've been around a very long time. It's surprisingly long. So welcome, Sean. Thanks for coming.
- [01:11]
C
Yeah, great to be here. Excited to chat.
- [01:14]
B
A quick question. How long has Lovesac been around? Because they seems to be like 30
- [01:17]
C
years or almost 27 years.
- [01:20]
B
Wow, that's really cool. And maybe a quick story on how that was created. Was it your idea? And how did it come to life?
- [01:27]
C
Yeah, look, I made a. So I'm 10 days out of high school, 18 years old in Salt Lake City, Utah, and just watching the prices, right? Little bit bored. Had this dumb idea, like, how funny would it be to make a bean bag like this big? You know me to the TV, the whole floor, that size, and turn off the TV. Drove down to Joanne's Fabrics, bought 7 yards of tan vinyl and 7 yards of black vinyl, because I'm guessing that's what you make a bean bag out of. Brought it home, cut it out, tried to sew it up, jam him on sewing machine. Took it to my neighbor who was a seamstress. She finished sewing it, put a zipper in it. Took me three weeks to stuff it with. You know, I tried beanbag beads but couldn't possibly buy enough of them at Michael's. So old packing peanuts, old blankets. Finally, our camping mattresses. You know the piece of yellow foam with a bungee cord around it? Chopped those up on a paper cutter and Stuffed that thing. And everywhere I took it. Everyone loved it. Fill the back of a truck and drive in movies, camping events, whatever. People were like, where did you get that? And it would be three years before I finally made one for a friend and then their friend wanted one. And LoveSac as a company was born in 1990. 98. Opened our first store in 2001 in Salt Lake City, Utah. And now we operate 300 stores, have 2000 employees, and do about, you know, almost three quarters of a billion in sales every year.
- [02:45]
B
This is amazing. I keep hearing the song from the B52s the Love Shack. It would be funny one day. Or maybe you have, I don't know, done a collab with them instead of the love sack. It would be. It sounds almost the same, you know.
- [02:55]
C
Oh, trust me, if I had a dollar for every time someone thought of that, I. I wouldn't have had to raise money. But it's a great idea. We someday must do it, but we still have not.
- [03:05]
B
Yeah, that's really cool though. Wow. So what's your main focus today? Is it the podcast or, you know, what else have you do? What else are you doing to keep. Keep yourself going? Because I'm sure it may sound ridiculous to other people, but I bet you're probably like a serial entrepreneur and you're bored after a while.
- [03:19]
C
You know, I have gone through every stage. We startup mode, raised venture capital, raised private equity, grew. The company had to go through complete turnaround at some point, know, been through it all. Now we're a public company traded on nasdaq and it's. It's a lot of fun and it's become. It's just evolved over time. And my ambition now eventually. Look, I've thought about leaving a thousand times. I thought about doing other things, investing in other things, whatever. But LoveSac has kept growing and evolving. We sell mostly couches now. You might have seen them on tv. You can add to them, grow them, rearrange them. Forever is the couch you could have the rest of your life if you want to. And the sactionals business has become most of our sales and it's led us to other couch designs and other designs for the home. And basically we're at this place where we think we can turn Lovesack into, you know, a Nike, an Apple, a Lulu, like a big brand, an international brand, a legendary brand that will make all kinds of different things that we'll be proud of and, and that our. Our customers love us for lots of reasons that I can explain. But, you know, we have you have
- [04:24]
B
like a love sack where, let's say it's a two seater and you can pull out, you know, a holder in the middle. And then the two of you, you can. Where we're sitting there, you know, like, you go from dating to more possibilities. You know, the same piece of furniture.
- [04:35]
C
That's kind of what sectionals are. You could buy a bunch of seats, buy a bunch of sides, build 10,000 different couches out of them, and it's a really cool. Become the best selling sectional sofa in the United States of America for these reasons. And more importantly, it's true sustainability. Right? This is the kind of thing you can invest in, continue to grow. Like, I, I have pieces that are 18 years old, made with brand new pieces, now wearing their 10th set of covers. And they can change with the season, change with years, and, and you can keep it fresh and new. So that's the path to true sustainability. We call it diet and for life. And it's the reason that I, we have a shot at building a brand that we'll really love because most products as you know, die the day after you bring them home and decompose slowly in your life, making you replace them every year sometimes. And we're anti that. And I think that's a brand that I think people have grown to love, will continue to love, and we can build on that.
- [05:29]
B
Well, what happens over time, though? I mean, I can't imagine, like, you know, if I have a love sat couch or something, I was thinking the material would get squished over time and I'd have to maybe put more in and make it more dense to have the same level of like springiness or sport. What happens to love socks after a while?
- [05:44]
C
Well, so our cap, they're made more similarly to like a traditional couch in the sense solid wood frame, steel springs, you know, so the, the core pieces can last a lifetime. Because the way we build them, the cushions, as in pull like right now. We just met. I bet you have a couch in your life. And I bet if I challenge you to, hey, just go get a new cushion for it because it's getting tired. It's been six years or something. Could you. Where did you buy it? What model is it? Do they still make it?
- [06:10]
B
Oh, no.
- [06:11]
C
Okay, so there you go.
- [06:12]
B
Through a lot of catches because my dogs used to eat holes in them. There you go.
- [06:15]
C
Ours are a click away. And if your dog chewed a hole in any piece of ours, you could buy one cup for that one piece and you'd have a brand New looking couch. We never drop our fabrics. We allow you to, you know, buy these standard built covers forever. Just the whole business is built around this idea of forever and pieces and parts and add ons and, and new covers and all these things are available to you. So it really is a couch you could have the rest of your life if you want to. And that, that's the backbone of our brand.
- [06:43]
B
That's cool. You've gone through a lot of couches with kids and dogs and all that over the years. Like we probably had to get a couch like every two years at least because they keep getting destroyed, you know, Totally. But it was, there was a book I read many years ago called Cradle to Cradle and these engineers, it was an engineering book, but their, their intent was how do you design a product that can be completely recycled and turned back into that product again? You know, you, maybe a manufacturer would have a buyback or whatever where the person at their home could reconstitute it completely. And it sounds like that's the way you're going.
- [07:14]
C
That's exactly right. In fact, pretty soon we'll be the only furniture dealer that has used furniture. We are working on taking trade ins. We already have a sale program, but the key is mass standardization and that's achieved with sectionals. And that's again the backbone of the brand. And the reason I think this brand can become something much larger than, than even what we have grown it into today.
- [07:36]
B
Yeah. Well, you have different kinds of fills or what did you, what have you settled on as the best fill, as you could say? It's up to you.
- [07:42]
C
Yeah, I mean, many options. So the sacks, the original giant beanbags are still shredded polyurethane foam, like what you'd find in your couch cushions, but shredded up like popcorn. And they, they last forever. I still meet people that have the ones I sold them in college because they're not beanbag beads. They don't compress over time. They really last a long time. The sectionals, again, built like traditional sofas, but better built because it's the only thing we build. So we do a really good job of building them to last. And, and yeah, we do have different fill options. And, and the key is quality. You know, like our stuff is not cheap, it's quite expensive. But again, you're investing something you could have the rest of your life if you choose to.
- [08:24]
B
And I noticed on couches, you know, I like to sit up very straight. A lot of the couches, they like, you're reclining really heavily. I don't like that. And then, I mean it was like average height. But I've seen people that are really tall. 6, 4, 6, 5. And the pan of the couch you sit on, I guess that's what I'll call the seat or the pan. It's. They let you know their, their legs can't go down at a 90 degree angle and still sit against the back of it. And then you have short people that they could probably put their whole leg up straight on it. Is there any need to customize the dimensions so that again, according to your height and weight or at least heightened, you know, the length of your legs and all that, that you can have like a semi custom couch for you?
- [09:00]
C
Yeah, believe it or not, sectionals are again, you buy a bunch of seats, buy a bu of sides, build anything you want. But these rectangle seats can be arranged deep way or long ways. And this, it's very different, you know how you sit. But what's neat is that the sides that can, that they're interchangeable. They can be an arm or a back and you just have to look at. It's difficult for me to explain like this. You'd have to look at the videos to understand because they're very different than typical sectionals that you've seen. But it allows that kind of customization. In fact, seat by seat you could be deep and long and deep and long and have all kinds of different configurations depending on how you sit. And, and now we offer arm styles and back styles as well that will allow you to change that pitch. So there really are just a lot of really cool ways to customize it. Even though again, it's the same standard product, which is where you get all the benefits from of being able to add to it, grow it, change it, upgrade it over because the core pieces ever change. Like I said, I have 18 year old ones mated with brand new ones mated with our stealth techs or sound system that you can also add over time, all kinds of stuff. So we've done this platform and that's the reason LoveSac has grown. Like it's grown.
- [10:06]
B
That's really cool now that I think about it. I think a lot of tech just opened up the mall near me. I'm in Austin. I'll have to go in there and check it out, you know.
- [10:13]
C
Please.
- [10:13]
B
Yeah, that's great. I can see like if you have to move, you don't need to. You can disassemble the couch and just essentially, you know, throw cushions in a box or something if you need to Clean it. You could take it apart and clean stuff individually. Like, one part gets stained or whatever. What happens if you spill something on, I don't know, one of the. One of the pieces? Like, can you. Can you open it up and wash the insides? Or is there no need for that? Or can you order just insides to stuff a particular piece if you need.
- [10:38]
C
Yeah, the insides stay pretty clean because our covers are all changeable. They're heavy duty, but they're all changeable. Removable washable to begin with. So, you know, there really are. There's really a lot of durability and washability that way. But yeah, the insides can also at least be scrubbed out. They're really durable. So, you know, you can. You can. You could take them outside and house them down if you really needed to. I don't think it's ever come to that. You know, for the most part, that covers or most of the abuse, since
- [11:05]
B
you have the modularity now, is there. I don't know, do you have like any online software or anything that gives you ideas? Maybe you didn't, you know, how do I accommodate my living room? It's really narrow or, you know, I want to have like an extra guest or two over. How can I modify my stuff so that they can sit, you know, comfortably?
- [11:21]
C
Yeah, we have this really cool online conveyor for sectionals where you can make any adjustment you want. Deep, long, wide. You know, you can just by rotating a piece, you can add or subtract 6 inches to the length or depth of a couch. And we also have our stores, the same thing. And the stores have these cool magnetic blocks that you play with. They're kind of like a little bit like Legos, but magnetic, magnetic Legos that you can arrange and rearrange that represent the sactionals and just customize it to anything you want. But the best part is you're never stuck with it. Even if you customize it, you still rearrange it the next moment. And that's really what. Where sactionals just dominate. And that's the reason, again, they've become so popular and so prolific.
- [11:58]
B
Yeah, no, that's really cool. Have you. Have you seen any users make any really strange or cool configurations you haven't thought of?
- [12:05]
C
Oh, yeah. I mean, if you were to plug, you know, sactionals, I don't know, clever sactionals configurations into Google, you would see hundreds and thousands of pictures that are just amazing.
- [12:16]
B
Yeah, very, very cool. So, I mean, yeah, it seems like you've covered a lot of different angles where where's the project going from here, you think? What can you say?
- [12:23]
C
Yeah, look, SAC is vibrant growing company, one of the fastest growing companies in home or furniture, has been for years. And we're investing into new rooms of the home, new realms where we'll solve similar problems that you didn't know you had with product that's built to last a lifetime and designed to evolve as your life changes. And that's our secret sauce, and we're really proud of it. And keep an eye on Lovesac. Definitely. If you're any, anywhere near a store, pop in there. It will surprise you what, what we do. And we'll grow and change and, and evolve.
- [12:57]
B
Okay. Yeah. Would it be okay to talk about your podcast just briefly, you know, let me say in 25 years. So, yeah, tell me about that. What's the idea there?
- [13:03]
C
Look, I wrote a book a couple years ago at our 25th year anniversary called let me save you 25 years. So it's mistakes, miracles and lessons from the Lovesack story. And it's a great story. Lovesac has a crazy saga, like I gave you the very short version, but winning Richard Branson's reality TV show. I won a million dollars on TV early on to, you know, complete bankruptcy, start over in the middle to everything in between. And now on NASDAQ, having 10x the company since going public, you know, Lovesack's been a crazy crate ride and it's, it's a great story. But the lessons and the mistakes I made along the way and the lessons from those have been very poignant. So I continue that discussion on my podcast every week. I'm very proud of it. We, I bring you the, the smartest people on earth, I mean, in business, from Mark Cubitt, Gary Vaynerchuk, Sarah Blakely. On down the list, sports. I've had Gronk on, you know, just successful people a little bit different than interview style. I, I get, I choose a topic with them. One of my shaunisms since, you know, just yesterday recorded a podcast, honest Seanism, you know, stay cool and be kind and so on on down the list. These lessons that I've learned and you can learn from some of the most successful people in the world on the podcast. Let me save you 25 years. So really proud of it.
- [14:25]
B
Okay. Yeah, that's really cool. And I'm glad. Even though I don't have a billion dollar company, I'm glad you're okay to come on my podcast too. That's really great.
- [14:32]
C
Hey, man, we're all just trying to put out good, good vibes and good content for the world and. And I'm proud of you for doing it, and I'm doing the same.
- [14:40]
B
Do you have your book on sale at the Lovesack stores or just online?
- [14:44]
C
Yeah, yeah, you can find it at Lovesack stores and find it at Amazon. Find it everywhere. And the podcast, of course, everywhere you listen to podcasts.
- [14:53]
B
Okay. And the best way for people to find out more sounds like, is go experience it. So I guess I'd recommend I do it myself. I will. But yeah, now I'm a lot more excited to go into the Lovesack store and check stuff out, so I encourage listeners to do so, too. Sounds really so cool what you've done with it. It's great. Yeah. Okay. Any. Any other things that you. You'd want to cover or you think that's a good brief overview of what you've been doing for now?
- [15:15]
C
No, I think you know that. Thank you.
- [15:17]
B
Okay. Well, very good. Sean, thanks so much for coming on the podcast. I appreciate it very much.
- [15:20]
C
Nice to meet you. Appreciate it.
- [15:22]
B
If you like this podcast, please click the link in the description to subscribe and review us on itunes.
- [15:30]
A
Thank you for listening to the Good Question Podcast. Please email support at the Good Question Podcast. If you have any referrals to great guests for us to interview, visit thegoodquestionpodcast.com to hear more interviews. And please help us spread the word by rating and reviewing us on Apple podcasts, iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen to this podcast.