The Real Sealed Section

Summary

The Good Sex Project – Episode 7: "The Real Sealed Section"
Date: July 21, 2026
Host: Melody Thomas

---

Overview

In this candid and insightful episode, host Melody Thomas explores the theme of "magnificent sex"—what it truly means, how people unlock its potential, and whether extraordinary sexual intimacy is a matter of luck or something you can build. The story focuses on the New Zealand couple Alex and Jamie, tracing their sexual evolution from a long-term, loving but routine partnership to a deliberate, adventurous journey culminating in a remarkable shared goal: Jamie giving Alex 365 orgasms in a single year. The episode also features expert perspectives from Canadian sex researcher Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz and listener voice memos reflecting on their own transcendent sexual experiences.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Alex and Jamie's Sexual Adventure

• Background: Together for almost 30 years, Alex and Jamie’s story starts at university in the UK and winds its way to New Zealand. Despite a steady, high-frequency sex life, they realized years into their relationship that “quantity” wasn’t synonymous with “quality”.

  • [06:32] Jamie: "Sex makes the world go round."
  • [06:36] Alex: "It's a healthy discussion that more people should be having."

• Missionary for Seven Years:

  • For their first seven years, sex was frequent but predictable—limited to missionary, with little experimentation.
  • [13:21] Jamie: "We only had sex in the missionary position until we'd been together for about seven years."
  • [13:37] Jamie: "It's quite amazing that you're having sex so much, but exactly the same way."

• The 365 Orgasms Challenge:

  • At the AUM music festival in 2023, Jamie proposes the goal of giving Alex 365 orgasms in a year.

  • [04:47] Jamie: "Next year I want to give you 365 orgasms."

  • [14:06] Alex: "What if we could do 365 orgasms in the year for Alex, strictly for Alex, because I want to talk logistics."

  • They log and sometimes schedule sex sessions, sometimes “catching up” on their tally during weekend getaways, but more often sneaking midday “meetings” during the workweek while the kids were at school.

  • [16:35] Jamie: "We'd make daytime meetings... so we started penciling in meetings."

  • [16:51] Alex: "I’d typically come home, have a meeting, and then shoot back into work. Often be sitting around a boardroom table thinking, 'I'm the happiest person in this room by miles.'"

• Transformation Through Deliberate Pleasure:

  • Alex learns to relax into receiving pleasure, while Jamie finds joy in focusing entirely on her experience rather than relying on cultural scripts centered on male enjoyment.
  • [18:48] Alex: "It transformed my thinking... anticipating and being curious about what made Alex tick."
  • [19:51] Jamie: "I actually cried on the last one. It had been such a journey."

• Ongoing Adventure:

  • Even after their “orgasm year”, discovery continues: trying edging, exploring new scenarios, and appreciating the continued evolution of their intimacy.
  • [23:33] Jamie: "We only just discovered edging."
  • [23:54] Alex: "It was a bit sandy as well."
  • [24:13] Alex: "You were like almost boiling all day."

---

2. Magnificent Sex: The Science and Practice

• Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz’s Research:

  • Dr. Kleinplatz challenges the dominant sex research narratives focused on dysfunction, instead studying couples who report “magnificent sex”.
  • Her interviews across ages, identities, and relationship styles reveal eight consistent qualities of extraordinary sex—this episode touches on four:
    1. Being completely present and embodied.
    2. Feeling deeply in sync or aligned with your partner.
    3. Deep erotic intimacy marked by mutual respect and pleasure.
    4. Empathic communication—tuning in and responding to each other’s cues, often nonverbally.
  • [26:53] Dr. Kleinplatz: "Number one, being completely embodied, absorbed or focused in the moment, being so completely alive in the moment that nothing could possibly distract you."
  • [28:28] Dr. Kleinplatz: "Liking, caring for your pleasure was as important to me for my enjoyment as my own."

• Deliberateness Over “Spontaneity”:

  • The idea that “sex should be natural and spontaneous” is debunked; even in early dating, intentionality (preparation, anticipation) sets the stage for desire.
  • [31:27] Dr. Kleinplatz: “When we were first dating, it seemed like every time we were together we would just look at each other and fall into each other's arms. And that's utter dribble... they did a bunch of things all day that said to themselves, 'I'm preparing for this... so that when we finally meet, then we can fake natural and spontaneous.'"

---

3. Listener Reflections: Mental Blocks and Transcendence

• Listeners share their own breakthroughs, many emphasizing shifts in mindset, permission to want pleasure, and transcendent moments rather than specific technqiues.

  • [35:23] Listener: “I started to think, like, oh, it can be fun, and it matters for a woman to have a pleasurable experience.”
  • [36:38] Listener: “What has enabled magnificent sex for me is... spaciousness... a dance where I will want to ask for something and my partner will respond to that and that they will have a want or a need, and I will respond to that... sometimes I come and it's lovely. Like it's transcendent.... one time I turned into a field of grass just like golden and blowing in the wind.”

• Transcendence and Transformation:

  • Reaching a state of sex where you feel “connected to the universe” or similar, what Dr. Kleinplatz calls transcendence, is often the outcome of integrating all eight components.

---

4. Cultural & Individual Unlearning

• Dr. Kleinplatz and Jamie/Alex stress that extraordinary sex often comes after you unlearn cultural scripts centered on performance, predictability, and shame, and dare to ask what you (and your partner) truly want.
  • [30:16] Dr. Kleinplatz: "The first thing I had to do: unlearn everything I'd ever learned about sex growing up."
• Deliberate planning, permission to experiment, and open communication are not the death-knell of desire, but rather, its fuel.
  • [34:20] Dr. Kleinplatz: “There really is a lot of bad sex out there. Maybe low sexual desire is evidence of good judgment.”
  • [41:21] Dr. Kleinplatz: “The best way to kill sexual desire is to do the same things over and over relentlessly.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:25] Jamie: “We didn’t even know we weren’t having great sex before.”
• [14:49] Jamie: "I come multiple times. So I knew that we weren't going into a situation knowing that we were going to have sex every day."
• [19:51] Jamie: "I actually cried on the last one. It had been such a journey."
• [26:53] Dr. Kleinplatz: “Being so completely alive in the moment that nothing could possibly distract you.”
• [30:16] Dr. Kleinplatz: “The first thing I had to do, unlearn everything I'd ever learned about sex growing up.”
• [31:27] Dr. Kleinplatz: “...then we can fake natural and spontaneous.”
• [34:20] Dr. Kleinplatz: “Maybe low sexual desire is evidence of good judgment.”
• [36:38] Listener: “Sometimes I come and it's lovely. Like, it's transcendent. I feel like I am connected to the universe ... one time I turned into a field of grass just like golden and blowing in the wind.”
• [43:35] Dr. Kleinplatz: “Not everything gets illuminated all at once. But if you can just pay attention to what's being illuminated within you, it'll take you to where you need to go.”

---

Important Timestamps

• [03:31] Alex and Jamie recall attending the AUM festival, leading to more openness in their sex life.
• [04:44] Jamie proposes the "365 orgasms" goal.
• [13:21] Realization of how long they stuck to familiar sexual routines
• [16:35] The couple describes scheduling sex and discovering the joys of daytime encounters.
• [18:48] Alex discusses shifting her mindset and the role of receiving pleasure.
• [24:37] Introduction of Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz: scientific perspective on "magnificent sex."
• [26:53] Four key components of magnificent sex outlined.
• [30:16] Need to "unlearn" cultural sexual scripts.
• [31:27] Debunking the myth of natural "spontaneity" in sex.
• [35:23-39:39] Listener voice memos on their own experiences of magnificent or transcendent sex.
• [43:35] Dr. Kleinplatz’s closing reflection on the journey toward extraordinary sexual connection.

---

Recap & Takeaways

• Extraordinary sexual connection isn’t about frequency or novelty alone, but about intentionality, deep presence, mutual pleasure, open communication, and a willingness to continually learn and unlearn.
• The episode illustrates, through Alex and Jamie’s journey, that "magnificent sex" is built, not stumbled upon. Simple tweaks—like scheduling sex, prioritizing one partner's pleasure, or honestly communicating needs—can yield profound transformation.
• Expert findings reinforce the value of presence, empathy, and deliberate effort in sexual connection.
• Listener experiences highlight that sexual transcendence is available to anyone willing to experiment, communicate, and shed shame.

---

Next Episode Teaser
Talking About Sex: Melody previews an upcoming conversation about the transformative power of open sexual communication, featuring personal stories around vaginismus and a sharing circle of queer friends.

---

If you found value in this episode, share it widely! For support and more information, connect on Instagram (@goodsexproject) or email [e-mail].

Transcript

[Melody Thomas]

What makes a leader worth following?

[Aura Advertiser]

What should you really care about in your job?

[Alex]

As technology is changing so quickly, is it just gonna be about machines talking to other machines?

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

I mean, should you quit your job

[Melody Thomas]

and start something on your own, what would that take?

[Alex]

What does success and risk look like when we're all at the starting gate together? These are the questions we answer each week on Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler. Join us each week and subscribe at your favorite podcast platform and YouTube. We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together.

[Pura Advertiser]

Summer Smells like summer road trips, ocean breezes and long evenings under the stars, it's a feeling you want to hold onto. Restore your sense of place with Pura's new summer fragrance collection, we've captured the magic of the season in clean premium scents that transform your home into your favorite destination. Discover the art of sense keeping and bring the summer in. Visit pura.com to explore the collection. Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, Dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or even vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at aura.com safety protect yourself now at aura.com safety

[Jamie]

kia ora koutou this episode contains open

[Melody Thomas]

and frank discussion of sex and pleasure, including listener voice memos about personal sexual experiences. This podcast was made with the support

[Alex]

of New Zealand On Air.

[Melody Thomas]

It's 2017 and somewhere in the middle of a multi day festival called AUM two people are remembering what it feels like to actually be with each other again. Their names are Alex and Jamie. They have two kids together and they've been together for nearly 30 years. They've made it through the trenches of early parenthood. Now, for the first time in a long time, they have space to seek adventure together away from the kids. And boy, are they making the most of it. OM is a low key independent music festival with a focus on art and sustainability as well. Think drumming, circles, yoga and fireboy. That's the vibe. And this is the first festival that these two have been to in a really long time.

[Jamie]

It was about us connecting and remembering what that felt like.

[Melody Thomas]

Now, Alex and Jamie had been warned ahead of time that there might be a bit of nudity at this festival. A touch of free love. None of that's compulsory, of course, but these two had talked about it just in case.

[Alex]

Alex and I had this discussion in the car about, okay, we think we're walking into a shag fest here. How are we gonna.

[Jamie]

We thought we're gonna be turning down threesomes with a shitty stick.

[Alex]

In reality, just absolutely nothing happened.

[Jamie]

We literally saw one person snogging on the dance floor. That was it.

[Alex]

But it did open our eyes a little bit to being more adventurous and sort of growing up about the whole thing being more communicative. And I think that was maybe the catalyst for becoming a little bit more open and experimental and comfortable.

[Melody Thomas]

Fast forward to that same festival six years later. Jamie and Alex letting loose again. But it's new year, so they also have resolutions on their minds. Well, Jamie does.

[Alex]

I was doing lots of goals at the time, personal goals, business, health, friendships. So why not throw a sex one in there?

[Melody Thomas]

Jamie went running up to Alex to share his vision.

[Jamie]

I remember vividly, he said, I've got this really good idea. Next year I want to give you 365 orgasms. And I thought, okay.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Three, two, one.

[Melody Thomas]

Happy. Kia ora, friends. And welcome to episode seven of the Good Sex Project. I'm your host, Melody Thomas, and today we're going from good sex to magnificent sex. We're going to follow Alex and Jamie through what happened when they actually tried to pull off 365 orgasms from for her in a year.

[Jamie]

We didn't even know that we weren't having great sex before.

[Melody Thomas]

We'll also hear from Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz. She's a sex researcher and therapist based in Canada who spent decades exploring what truly extraordinary sex actually looks like.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Being so completely alive in the moment that nothing could possibly distract you.

[Melody Thomas]

And we hear from you, our listeners, about the sexual experiences that stopped you in your tracks.

[Jamie]

We actually were physical with each other. I really let go.

[Melody Thomas]

We'll be asking what is truly Magnificent sex. What does it look, or, more importantly, feel like? Who's having it? And can you build it deliberately or does it just happen to you? All that and more right now in episode seven of the Good Sex Project, the Real sealed section.

[Jamie]

Sex makes the world go round.

[Alex]

And it's healthy. It's a healthy discussion that more people should be having.

[Melody Thomas]

Alex and Jamie might be saying this to me now, but they weren't always super comfortable having these discussions, even with each other, decades into being together. In order to understand how they got here and what obstacles they faced along the way, we're going to have to rewind to hear their origin story.

[Alex]

We met in university in the late 1990s.

[Melody Thomas]

You might have picked up their accents. Alex grew up in the north of England and Jamie grew up in the south. They met when they both went to uni in the middle somewhere. And when they met, they were both with other people. Jamie's flatmate was actually Alex's boyfriend.

[Jamie]

We went for a picnic and Jamie was there and he was talking about making Daisy change the Somerset way. And he just kept making me laugh over and over again. And I walked away and I said to my friend, I think I really like Jamie.

[Melody Thomas]

What's the Somerset way?

[Alex]

I seem to remember making a hole in the stem and then passing the Somerset way.

[Jamie]

I'm not sure there is a Somerset way.

[Alex]

It was just maybe I was making it up.

[Jamie]

And then it wasn't long after that I finished with my ex and promptly started pursuing him.

[Melody Thomas]

That was in November, and they hooked up just after Christmas. They're both Sagittariuses. They're born one day apart. So this was also birthday season.

[Jamie]

Jamie had just turned 21 the day before I was 22.

[Melody Thomas]

And even though they were super into each other, they couldn't jump in right away. They had to be respectful.

[Alex]

It was awkward at the time because I was still living with the ex.

[Melody Thomas]

And keep in mind, this is the late 90s, so no cell phones. We're talking landlines, baby.

[Jamie]

I had to ring up and put on a weird voice to pretend I was someone else in case he answered the phone. I think I was generally Scottish. I'd like to speak with Jamie, please. I bet your ex was like, all right. The Craf X.

[Melody Thomas]

They were also living in separate cities.

[Jamie]

Jamie came up for Valentine's Day and we just really connected and the relationship went on and it was like, when is this honeymoon period going to finish? And I feel like, in a way, it's still going 27 years later.

[Melody Thomas]

Now. I Got to tell you that these two are almost freakishly aligned when it comes to desire.

[Jamie]

We've always had a lot of sex,

[Melody Thomas]

which isn't the case for a lot of couples.

[Jamie]

Then we moved in together and I remember after six weeks, the first night we didn't have sex and I thought, oh God, is something going wrong with our relationship? I remember it really distinctly.

[Melody Thomas]

It's all over.

[Jamie]

Oh God. I would always feel really conscious if we were sat in bed reading, that we were getting grown up and we were just being boring. If we both sat in bed reading. I think I just had this really strong desire not to fall into any of these more grown up patterns like getting married. I just assumed that the marriage was the catalyst to creating these people that were settling down and having kids and dogs.

[Melody Thomas]

They were on the same page. But then about five years into their love story, their plans took a turn when Alex's mum got sick. Her prognosis wasn't good, which was devastating for the family. And Jamie wanted desperately to make Alex feel better, to make her mum feel better, even if just for a moment. He decided to propose. Now, Jamie's an old fashioned lad, so the first person he called was Alex's dad to ask his permission.

[Alex]

He immediately said, that's fine by me, but what makes you think she's going to say yes?

[Melody Thomas]

Jamie was undeterred. He bought a ring and made a date for the proposal. The day didn't start off great and Ronaldinho.

[Alex]

I had to brush aside my disappointment, get on the train and travel all the way through the uk.

[Melody Thomas]

Alex and her family were gathered at her mum's side at the time, across the other side of the country.

[Jamie]

I was playing Scrabble with my dad and he'd just got a seven letter word. And then Jamie walked in, took me down to the bridge, popped the question and I actually said initially, I don't know.

[Melody Thomas]

But Alex knew how happy an engagement would make her mum and she loved Jamie. She totally planned on spending her life with him. So she said yes.

[Jamie]

And then we went and told my mum and she said, let's get married now.

[Alex]

And that is a small regret, actually, that we didn't. If that happened now, I think we probably would have had the confidence to say, actually, let's just get the vicar in and do it right now.

[Melody Thomas]

Alex's mum died a week later.

[Jamie]

We did have the best wedding though, a year later on Midsummer's Day. But yeah, my mum would have loved to have been part of that.

[Melody Thomas]

When Alex and Jamie got married, they were 26 and 27, which to them felt young. Their mates weren't there yet.

[Jamie]

It was like, okay, this is great. How are we going to move forward with our lives and not turn into boring adults? We'll do a year long honeymoon.

[Melody Thomas]

Then Jamie and Alex went backpacking. They spent nine months in Central and South America. Viva Bolivar. Then the plan was to head to New Zealand and on to Australia and Asia. But they got here and never left.

[Jamie]

We're still here on the honeymoon.

[Melody Thomas]

Eventually they did the boring adult thing. They had a kid, got a dog, had another kid. They were in the trenches of parenting for more than a year.

[Alex]

Decade.

[Melody Thomas]

But for all of that, time and again, this is unusual. Their sexual frequency never faltered.

[Jamie]

We never went for more than two weeks without having sex.

[Melody Thomas]

I want to say something quickly about sexual frequency before we go further. Our culture holds this up as one of the main markers of a happy sex life, but the science shows it doesn't matter. Frequency of sex just isn't a predictor of a couple's overall relationship or sexual satisfaction. You can listen to episode four of season two or head straight to our bonus interview with Emily Nagoski if you want to learn more about that. But these guys are actually a really good example themselves. They've just told us about the quantity bit, but what about when it came to quality?

[Alex]

We would have said it was good, but I think levels of communication were very limited. It was more, let's have sex and we are assuming that we're both happy.

[Melody Thomas]

They've actually got a really excellent specific example of where this approach led them.

[Jamie]

We only had sex in the missionary position until we've been together for about seven years.

[Alex]

Yeah, the seven year Ed.

[Jamie]

We're gonna switch this up.

[Melody Thomas]

Try some doggy style.

[Alex]

After seven years, it's quite amazing that

[Jamie]

you're having sex so much, but exactly the same way. Good sex, orgasms, but just, yeah, really unadventurous. How did we go that long without thinking, should we do something different? And I remember the first time we did and I went to the Osteo the next day and he said, God, what have you been up to?

[Melody Thomas]

Let's head back to New Year 2023 at OM Festival when Jamie has his bright idea.

[Alex]

It just came to me. What if we could do 365 orgasms in the year for Alex, Strictly for

[Melody Thomas]

Alex, because I want to talk logistics.

[Listener/Guest]

OK?

[Melody Thomas]

For me to have 365 orgasms in a year, I'd be looking at one sexual interaction per day. Maybe two or three if they were spaced out over the day and I had absolutely nothing else on. Also, the orgasms that these two are talking about aren't from solo sex. He wants to give them to her. So that would mean linking up two calendars. Basically for me. Impossible. Unless someone wants to cover my salary, in which case I'll give it a go. But Alex actually had an advantage here.

[Jamie]

I come multiple times. So I knew that we weren't going into a situation knowing that we were going to have sex every day. That time. I was probably normally coming about three times during sex.

[Melody Thomas]

Nice. For some. Okay, so an average of 3 orgasms per partnered sex session. They could either bank them up daily and be done by May 2nd. Plenty of time to spare. Or aim to connect roughly every third day between New Year's Day and New Year's Eve. And that was the strategy that they went with. Most of the time they stayed roughly on track. But there were times when they fell behind.

[Alex]

We fall out, we're human. And then suddenly it's like we might go through three or four weeks where we're like, I don't want to have sex.

[Jamie]

I don't think it was ever three or four weeks.

[Alex]

No. Maybe a couple of weeks or something. And then we're like, oh, we're behind. We make up. And we'd have a. Have to get back on top of things, quite literally. Queenstown that weekend. That felt like a real like shift up the gears.

[Jamie]

Well, we went away with 12 other

[Melody Thomas]

people and they'd fallen behind in their schedule.

[Jamie]

And then I went to the sex shop and came back with the builder.

[Pura Advertiser]

That's right.

[Melody Thomas]

By the end of the weekend, they were well ahead.

[Jamie]

Walked over 27 under our belt.

[Listener/Guest]

Yeah.

[Jamie]

Because I could just come and come and come.

[Melody Thomas]

Fun.

[Jamie]

And I do have friends who are. Who don't tell their husbands they've got dildos. Which I think is a really, really interesting. Whereas we just. It's definitely part of.

[Alex]

It's an enhancement, not competition.

[Melody Thomas]

But you can only go away with friends and then shut yourself in a bedroom ignoring them completely so many times a year. Most of the progress on their mission. The day to day clocking up of friends. Orgasms for Alex happened during the work week.

[Jamie]

We'd make daytime meetings. I'd be like, okay, so we're about. We're about six behind. What are you doing Thursday morning? He'd look at his. And so we started penciling in meetings.

[Melody Thomas]

Just logistically, were you working from home or did you shoot home for these meetings?

[Alex]

I have a lot of flexibility in My work. So I would typically come home, have a meeting, and then shoot back into work and often be sitting around a boardroom table thinking, I'm the happiest person in this room by miles.

[Melody Thomas]

Somewhere in all the scheduling and spreadsheets, Alex and Jamie stumbled into something they hadn't expected, which was that daytime sex was just better.

[Alex]

We had the house to ourselves. The kids would be off at school, and at night, often you're tired, you have a drink or whatever. And then we realized that that's not necessarily resulting in the best experience for us either. So we learned that setting aside time and actually being a little bit strategic in doing it during the day, but leaving a nice amount of time to do it in was better.

[Melody Thomas]

This couple have a lot of factors on their side for this experiment. His work was super flexible. The kids were both at school during the day. They crave sexual connection about as much as each other, and they could afford to go away together and take time during the day, which isn't going to be an option financially for a lot of people. But even for them, it wasn't without its challenges or confronting moments.

[Jamie]

I kept saying to Jamie, are you actually enjoying this? Are you enjoying this as much as me? And he would reassure me, like, yep, yep. No, don't worry, I'm enjoying this. I would have to come a couple of times before we even had penetrative sex. And that was huge, because I think as a woman, and maybe other women can relate to this, if I'm having something nice done to me, I immediately think, oh, God, what am I gonna be doing nice for them? And I could let that go.

[Melody Thomas]

As time went on and Alex let herself relax into receiving pleasure, some pretty extraordinary changes began to happen for both of them.

[Alex]

I think it transformed my thinking as well, because a lot of the influences you get exposed to, you know, porn, 99% of porn is about male pleasure. And that can lead you into thinking that that's what sex is all about. This process turned that completely on its head for me. It was more anticipating and being curious about what made Alex tick and how did we make it better and better for her. But the effect of that was that my experience went through the roof as well. There is so much enjoyment in giving.

[Melody Thomas]

In September, When Alex hit 265 orgasms, she flipped her tally and began counting down from 100. And then it happened. 3, 2, 1.

[Jamie]

I actually cried on the last one. It had been such a journey.

[Alex]

A bit controversial, the last one, wasn't it? Because it was actually on New Year's Day.

[Jamie]

Yes, don't ruin it. Don't let the real information get way of a good story.

[Melody Thomas]

New Year's Eve lasts until you go to sleep, and I've always said that when I sat down to talk with Alex and Jamie, it was the year after this 365Orgasms project, close enough that they were still feeling the glow, but with enough distance to be able to reflect on the larger picture.

[Jamie]

I think as when we get older, you know, we talk about responsive desire and spontaneous desire.

[Melody Thomas]

You'll know about this by now, but if not, go back and listen to season one of the Good Sex Project.

[Jamie]

I can say to Jamie, I'm not really in the mood, but I know if we take the time I can get in the mood, I can trust Jamie to know exactly what's required to go from A to B. And I'm not going to have sex before I'm ready, but I will reach a point where I really, really want to have sex. And that's huge.

[Alex]

I think age is a factor as well, though for me, I think younger. When I was younger, I was probably a lot more frantic, whereas now, much less in a hurry.

[Jamie]

It's been a catalyst to creating the next level of great sex for us in a way that we didn't even know that we weren't having great sex before. You know, I think often people don't realize that there's room for growth. You think you've already reached quite a good spot.

[Aura Advertiser]

Foreign.

[Alex]

Powers the World's Best Podcasts here's the

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

show that we recommend. If you've ever dreamed of quitting your job to take your side hustle full time, listen up. This is Nikayla Matthews Akome, host of Side Hustle Pro, a podcast that helps you build a and grow from passion project to profitable business. Every week you'll hear from guests just like you who wanted to start a business on the side.

[Jamie]

And if you can't run a side

[Listener/Guest]

hustle, you can't run a business.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

They share real tips and so I started connecting with all these people on LinkedIn and I saw target supplier diversity was having office hours. Real advice.

[Jamie]

Procrastination is the easiest form of resistance

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

and the actual strategies they use to turn their side hustle into their main hustle.

[Listener/Guest]

Getting back in touch with with your tangible cash and sitting down and learning to give your money a job like it changes something.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Check outside Hustle Pro every week on your favorite podcast app and YouTube

[Melody Thomas]

Acast

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

helps creators launch, grow and monetize their

[Alex]

podcasts everywhere acast.com Summer smells like salt

[Pura Advertiser]

in the air and warm sand. Restore your sense of place with Pura's new summer fragrance collection. Discover transportive clean [e-mail] harm.

[Melody Thomas]

As we now know, Jamie's a goals guy. But when You've already clocked 365 orgasms for your wife in a year, what do you aim for next?

[Alex]

That was a bit of a quandary, wasn't it? Where do we go from here? Two per day?

[Melody Thomas]

700 orgasms.

[Alex]

Yeah. 730 orgasms. Two per day. Come on, let's ramp it up.

[Melody Thomas]

In the end, the new goal was simply to keep exploring alongside each other. After all, even this long into their relationship, they're finding there's still so much to learn.

[Jamie]

We only just discovered edging.

[Melody Thomas]

You can Google that or listen to episode five of the last season.

[Jamie]

We went away earlier this year to a yurt for three nights. And then, you know, we did a walk and we were on a very secluded beach. But Jamie had this idea that kids were going to come running onto the beach. So he didn't want to have sex on this secluded beach.

[Alex]

It was a bit sandy as well.

[Jamie]

So instead he just. He just totally edged me on the beach. And then that level of desire remains in place for the rest of the day until we got back to the yurt. And it was quite incredible.

[Alex]

You were like almost boiling all day.

[Melody Thomas]

We're going to come back to Alex and Jamie because we're not quite done with them. But first, it's time to phone up an expert because on the surface, it might look like the main thing that changed for them was frequency upping the amount that they had sex, which was already high to begin with, but that wasn't what actually made the difference.

[Listener/Guest]

So what was. It

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

takes a good amount of intentionality. It shouldn't feel like work if you're doing it right, but it certainly will be deliberate.

[Melody Thomas]

This is Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz. Dr. Kleinplatz is a professor in the Faculty of Medicine and director of the Optimal Sexual Experiences Research team at the University of Ottawa. Along with a former PhD student of hers, Dr. Dana Minnaar, Dr. Kleinplatz wrote the book Magnificent Sex, which is a seminal text in the sex research, sex education, Sex therap is. I've been wanting to interview Dr. Kleinplatz for a really long time, and it's finally happened. I'm playing it pretty cool.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Do you want an hour's worth of leisurely oral sex?

[Jamie]

Yes.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Did I say something wrong?

[Jamie]

No. I said yes. I was making a terrible joke. Not so terrible.

[Melody Thomas]

Yikes. Most sex research focuses on dysfunction. What goes wrong that's low desire, erectile dysfunction, orgasm gaps, sexual problems to be solved. But with her research, Dr. Kleinplatz wanted to ask a different question. What makes some sex truly extraordinary? So she and her team spent years conducting in depth interviews with people who described themselves as having magnificent sex across a huge range of ages, identities and relationship styles. The resulting book is incredibly comprehensive. The whole second chapter is dedicated just to defining magnificent sex in order to make sure the people they were interviewing were actually talking about the same phenomenon. And it appeared they were. Not a single person described sexual positions, techniques or any particularly wild scenarios. But a handful of different components did keep coming up again and again. Eight of them, in fact. We're going to hear about four of them in this episode because they map so well onto Alex and Jamie's story. If you want to hear about the other four, you're going to have to check out our bonus episode with Peggy.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Number one, being completely embodied, absorbed or focused in the moment, Being so completely alive in the moment that nothing could possibly distract you. As one of our participants said, you know, an atom bomb could fall and I wouldn't notice it.

[Melody Thomas]

If you've ever had sex while quietly composing a to do list in your head, and don't stress, a lot of people have, you're going to recognise pretty immediately that this is basically the opposite of that. The people in Dr. Kleinplatz's research weren't just present, they were completely immersed. The second component, being completely in sync

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

with or aligned with your partner. Here we found a lot of people were struggling for language and they borrowed language from physics. They would say, oh, it's like electricity or like conductivity. They also borrowed language from poets, saying, it's when two hearts become one. The third component that people mentioned was what we've come to call deep sexual and erotic intimacy. Our participants almost never mentioned the word love. They talked about deep mutual respect, liking, caring for your pleasure was as important to me for my enjoyment as my own.

[Melody Thomas]

Alex and Jamie are a really good example of this.

[Alex]

How do we focus on Alex's experience and enjoyment? But my experience went through the roof as well.

[Melody Thomas]

And the fourth component of magnificent sex was something called empathic communication, which I'll let Dr. Kleinplatz explain.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

So I think back to some of my patients who walk in their office and say, you know, no matter how my partner touches me, it's always the same it back and forth and back and forth and back. And forth as if my partner were polishing a piece of wood. Not these people. They were very sensitive and tuned in to touching the person so as to really feel under the other person's skin. And correspondingly, when they were being touched, they would let themselves be known through touch.

[Melody Thomas]

One thing that might surprise you about these extraordinary lovers is that more often than not they became extraordinary after life forced them to redefine sexual intimacy. This was something that Dr. Kleinplatz had actually noticed before her research even started in her work as a therapist. Often the people with the most rewarding and out of this world sex lives were older. So the type of people you might picture being marketed at for Viagra and KY jelly or there were people with health issues or disabilities. Also queer folk, kinky and non monogamous folk. People who couldn't rely on hetero scripts when it came to sexuality to start with. As Dr. Kleinplat says in her book, anyone who had had to re envision sexuality en route to full sexual expression stood a pretty good chance of ultimately having an out of this world sex life.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

When we asked them, what did you have to do in order to begin having sex of that caliber, they all said the first thing I had to do, unlearn everything I'd ever learned about sex growing up.

[Melody Thomas]

Oh, just unlearn everything you've ever learned. Easy now. Obviously, journeys like this one are made one step at a time. Jamie and Alex's first steps involved switching things up and focusing entirely on her pleasure. And by doing that, they unlearned a few things. The idea that sex is for him, the script of which act follows which and this pesky myth.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Sex should be natural and spontaneous. That is so dramatically in contrast with what I see in my clinical practice.

[Melody Thomas]

Think about Alex and Jamie's story. One of the things that really stands out to me is how deliberate they became about sex. The calendar invites the daytime meetings. Talking about being six behind on the orgasm count and penciling in a catch up session like it was a project update. The that sounds on the surface like the opposite of romance, like the death of desire. But maybe it isn't.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

People say, you know, when we were first dating, it seemed like every time we were together we would just look at each other and fall into each other's arms. And that's utter dribble. Think about it. When you were first dating, you probably spent the day thinking about each other, calling each other, texting each other, things that prime the pump to say, I'm getting myself in the mood for you and I'M hoping you're getting yourself in the mood for me. And then when they finished their work, they might have gone to the gym to work out, after which they threw away the ugly graying underwear with fraying elastics and put those in that laundry hamper and showered and groomed and maybe shaved. And they did a bunch of things all day that said to themselves, okay, I'm preparing for this so that when we finally meet, then we can fake natural and spontaneous.

[Melody Thomas]

This is so true. The amount of hours that I spent exfoliating, shaving, fake tanning in the early days of my relationship, that's all effort, planning and intention. But we interpret it as spontaneous because it doesn't feel like effort. And then we move in together and we stop doing all of that. We call it losing desire, when really we've just stopped creating it.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Think about the other things that happen when people are dating. They do stuff together that they both enjoy. Maybe they go dancing, maybe they go hiking. And there's something almost inherently erotic about someone who wants to know you better, who's asking about what your childhood was like and what was it like the first time you've had a kiss? And it's as if once we're in a long term relationship, we forget to continue getting to know each other. So I do encourage couples to spend time and if they need to schedule time away from work, away from domestic drudgery, away from the kids, time for just the two of them. But not to schedule sex, to schedule time to do the things they currently enjoy with each other. How on earth are they going to expect to feel sexual desire blossoming if they don't hang out, if they don't date?

[Melody Thomas]

Of course, there are lots of other reasons why you might struggle to feel desire besides a lack of time for dates and connection, antidepressants and other medications, the stress of being alive right now, exhaustion, or this libido killer.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

There really is a lot of bad sex out there. Maybe low sexual desire is evidence of good judgment. And when you think about your partner coming home to you, expecting sex that is underwhelming, the right response is to think, oh, no, how do I get out of this?

[Melody Thomas]

Maybe it's not that you don't want sex, but that you don't want the sex you're currently having. And those are two very different problems. It's time to meet our final guests for this episode. You guys. I asked listeners to share their experiences of magnificent sex. What it felt like, what made it possible. And as with Jamie and Alex and every participant in Dr. Kleinplatz's research, none of you mentioned a specific sex act or position. But a lot of what you said did touch on a few of Peggy's eight components. Let's listen.

[Jamie]

Hello, Melody. My experience is that growing up had a very repressed relationship with anything sexual. In my family, it was not discussed. You don't ask questions.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

You don't talk about it.

[Jamie]

So, yeah, just grow up with a lot of hesitancy around, even, like, thinking that it could be for pleasure. And so actually, when I started listening to your podcast, Bang, that's when I started to think, like, oh, it can be fun, and it matters for a woman to have a pleasurable experience. So, yeah, for me, it was like more of a mental block. And then once that dissipated, I felt confident to ask for what I wanted or give that to myself. Like, the whole thing opened up gorgeous.

[Melody Thomas]

The brain is the biggest sex organ, so if you're looking to improve your sex life, there's no better place to start. We also heard from a listener who recorded their memo from inside their laundry closet. And they also started by talking about mental blocks. For them, anxiety would get them in their head and then make it really hard for them to stay present during sex and to climax. They had to learn to work with a mind that doesn't always want to cooperate.

[Listener/Guest]

What has enabled magnificent sex for me is, like, spaciousness, that having my breaks go on doesn't stop the sexual experience. So there's a lot of play and laughter in scenarios, sometimes just to get me out of my head. It feels a bit like a dance where I will want to ask for something and my partner will respond to that and that they will have a want or a need, and I will respond to that in that what we do, part of it, enabled by queerness, is dance between different activities or scenarios. And sometimes the dance includes stopping and having the space and permission to do that means that the instances of me going up into my head are shorter because I have permission to do that, that it's okay and I can come out of that and back into the sex that we're having a lot easier. Taking the focus off an orgasm has been really beneficial for me and has meant that the sex I have, even if I don't orgasm, feels even more pleasurable than orgasms would have in the past. And sometimes I come and it's lovely. Like, it's transcendent. I feel like I am connected to the universe and connected to my partner in ways that feel really heady and quite addictive. I feel like I'm a marshmallow or a jersey caramel or a fluffy mattress or one time I turned into a field of grass just like golden and blowing in the wind and it just felt incredible. And the other thing that's worked is legal weed. Thank you so much. Legal weed. You have changed my sex life for the better. And thanks to my partner too, and to me for doing the work.

[Melody Thomas]

Yes, that's right. Thank you to you. Now, I know I said that you are only going to get four of Dr. Kleinplatz's eight components of magnificent sex, but just quickly that voice memo made me think of number eight, which is transcendence and transformation. This is a state that many people reach when all other seven components line up and it's sex at its most universe expanding. Kind of sounds like the listener that we just heard from has reached it. I don't know how else you'd describe turning into a field of grass. Another listener described a similar thing to what Jamie did about leaning into the giving of pleasure.

[Alex]

Being able to fully worship my partner and fully give myself over to them and them to me is I praise and revere their body and their personhood.

[Melody Thomas]

And the final voice memo we're going to share comes from a 34 year old female listener who met someone new while they were both in open relationships.

[Jamie]

I felt like I could trust him, like blindly. He never, ever made me feel ashamed of myself, of my body or of my fluids, of my smell, of the way I tasted or like anything, anything. It was never, ever a spark of shame in the way he talked about me when we actually had sex and when we actually were physical with each other. I could actually like really let go and like make my mind blank and just focusing on all of the play we were having and all of the pleasure that the experience was giving me.

[Melody Thomas]

Thank you so much listeners for your voice memos. While I've been making this episode, I've been thinking about the most extraordinary sexual experiences that I've had as well. And while there are positions and ways of touching and being touched that I really love, not even my favourite ways are going to work every time the things we enjoy change as we do. And I don't even just mean in the long term. Just because something worked for you yesterday doesn't mean it'll be the same today. And yeah, that makes it all a little more difficult to figure out, but it also makes it more interesting.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

The best way to kill sexual desire is to do the same things over and over relentlessly. If you think for a couple of seconds about your favorite food. I would bet that that changes over the course of the year. I mean, in the summer, I love raspberries and watermelon and lemonade. Here at this time of the year, when it's been minus 30 Celsius for most of the last three months, I have no desire for watermelon. And the same is true for sexuality. Our bodies have moods, and the idea that somebody would take the time to check in with you and to say, well, what do you feel in the mood for today? Do you want, you know, an hour's worth of leisurely oral sex? I mean, the cure for low sexual

[Melody Thomas]

desire is creating desirable effects, and that takes time. I'm holding the book Magnificent Sex right now. It's filled with notations and sticky notes because there's just so much of value in it. But I'm struck actually by the image on the COVID which shows a grassy plain and distant mountains with glowing rays of sunshine shooting out from the clouds. The journey to extraordinary sexual experiences isn't easy. It requires unlearning everything you've ever learned about sex and committing to learning more and exploring more. It also means that when you hit a roadblock, you've got to have the courage to go around to forge a new path, like the people Dr. Kleinplatz spoke about who had to completely re envision sexuality because of illness, disability, age, and other factors. But for those who commit to the path, those who make it inch by inch up that mountainside, the rewards are pretty extraordinary. And you don't need people like me or Dr. Klein Platz to show you the way. You already know the way. Just follow your gut, follow pleasure, and you'll make it to that mountaintop.

[Dr. Peggy Kleinplatz]

Not everything gets illuminated all at once. But if you can just pay attention to what's being illuminated within you, it'll take you to where you need to go.

[Melody Thomas]

Coming up in the final episode of the Good Sex Project, Season three. We're talking about talking about sex because. Because it turns out just saying the thing out loud can change everything. We'll hear from one incredible young woman about her journey with vaginismus and how communication made her experience that much less lonely.

[Jamie]

I think it's made it less of a mountainous, mysterious thing that I have to deal with in darkness.

[Melody Thomas]

Plus, we get to sit in on a sharing circle where a group of queer friends are transforming their sex lives one honest conversation at a time.

[Jamie]

Not just like, what position? But like, what finger did you use? Or like, where was the bed? What were you feeling like? How did you know to use that thing? I just craved such yes specific details and I feel like we just don't have the space in our life to

[Melody Thomas]

really dig in in that way. If you loved this episode, please do share it with friends, family or even complete strangers. You can tell that person at the sauna or your book club or the cafe or the bathroom line at the gig all about this amazing podcast and we would really appreciate it. The Good Sex Project was made by PopSoc Media. It was written and developed by me, Mallody Thomas. Our producer and audio editor is Kirsten Johnstone. Co producers are Kay Hecke and Alaina Bates. Phil Brownlee recorded me in the studio and our sound mix is by Mark Chesterman. Paddy Fred did the music and some of the sound design. Thank you Team.

[Alex]

Sam.

[Pura Advertiser]

Close your eyes. Summer smells like sunshine, fresh citrus and salty air. What if your living room could feel just like that? With Pura's new Summer collection, it can restore your sense of well being with fragrances designed to move with your day. From bright, energizing mornings to soft, relaxing evenings make the invisible unforgettable this season. Visit pura.com to find your new favorite summer scent.

[Aura Advertiser]

Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the Internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a vpn, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, Dark web monitoring, and even up to $5 million in identity theft insurance. All backed by 24. 7 US based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a vpn. Aura gives you all of it together at the same price. Competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at aura.com safety protect yourself now at aura.com safety

[Alex]

Acast powers the world's best podcasts.

[Melody Thomas]

Here's a show that we recommend.

[Pura Advertiser]

Welcome back to two Judgy Girls. I'm Mary from the Bay. And I'm Courtney from la. TJG is the podcast where we spill all the tea on your favorite reality TV shows, celebrity gossip and everything in between. We're here to bring you our unfiltered opinions, hilarious commentary and plenty of laughs along the way. We're two SDSU Delta Gamma sisters with a microphone and a whole lot of opinions. Each week we dive headfirst into the wild world of reality television. From Bravo to all the trash TV you could want. We break down the drama, dissect the latest scandals and share our thoughts on everything from the jaw dropping moments to the embarrassing antics. But that's not all. We're not here to just gossip. We're here to connect with you, the jurors and share our love of all things pop culture. Whether we're dishing on the latest celebrity breakups, discussing our favorite guilty pleasure movies or sharing embarrassing stories from our own lives, we promise to keep it real, keep it fun and keep you coming back for more. Come judge with us.

[Alex]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcast Everywhere acest. Com.