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The US Constitution is a brilliant political document, but it’s far from perfect. This week’s guest, Erwin Chemerinsky, argues that many of today’s threats to democracy are a direct result of compromises made by the Founding Fathers centuries ago. Those mistakes have come back to haunt us, and they might destroy our democracy.Erwin Chemerinsky’s latest book is No Democracy Lasts Forever.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Erwin ChemerinskyEnjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Illing talks with political science professor Matt McManus about the political thought of Friedrich Nietzsche, the 19th-century German philosopher with a complicated legacy, despite his crossover into popular culture. They discuss how Nietzsche's work has been interpreted — and misinterpreted — since his death in 1900, how his radical political views emerge from his body of work, and how we can use Nietzsche's philosophy in order to interpret some key features of our contemporary politics.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Matt McManus.Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nathalie Etoke joins The Gray Area to talk about existentialism, the Black experience, and the legacy of dehumanization. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Nathalie Etoke. Her book is Black Existential Freedom.Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Religious studies professor Diana Pasulka was a total nonbeliever in alien life, but she began to question this after speaking with many people who claim to have had otherworldly encounters. She also noticed how these accounts parallel the foundational texts of many religions. She has since written two books on the topic, the most recent of which is Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences. She joins Sean to talk about extraterrestrial life, God, angels, and the renewed interest in UFOs. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Diana Pasulka (@dwpasulka). Her new book is Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligences.Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Please take a second to help us learn more about you! vox.com/podcastsurvey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is it possible that we are living through one of the most revolutionary periods in human history? CNN’s Fareed Zakaria believes that we are and argues that the convergence of AI and the global backlash against liberal democracy are upending political orders around the world. He joins Sean to talk about how this period relates to history’s most impactful revolutions, both political and technological. Click here to take the Vox podcast surveyHost: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Fareed Zakaria (@fareedzakaria). His new book is Age of Revolutions.Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsPlease take a second to help us learn more about you! vox.com/podcastsurveyThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jane Marie is an expert in American bullshit. Her podcast The Dream explores life coaching, wellness, marketing, and other fraudulent industries and exposes their exploitative practices. Her book, Selling the Dream, takes an even closer look at multilevel marketing schemes like Amway and Herbalife and gives historical context to this multibillion-dollar — and distinctly American — enterprise. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Jane Marie. Her podcast is The Dream and her book is Selling the Dream.Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As a non-believer, Devin Moss never thought he would become a chaplain or a spiritual adviser, much less one who counsels hospital patients with terminal illnesses and inmates on death row. Devin joins Sean to talk about his improbable journey, the death penalty, and the role of religion in an increasingly secular society.Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Devin Moss. His podcast is The Adventures of Memento Mori. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Journalist Rhaina Cohen believes that modern culture undervalues friendships and discusses the ways in which deep friendships are distinct from but no less meaningful than romantic partnerships. Guest host: Sigal Samuel (@sigalsamuel)Guest: Rhaina Cohen (@rhainacohen). Her book is The Other Significant Others. Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stephen Markley’s novel, “The Deluge,” is an ambitious and terrifyingly realistic look at our collective future on a warming planet. He joins Sean to talk about the 10-year process of writing the book, the current political struggle over climate action, and how we can confront and mitigate the worst effects of climate change. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Stephen Markley. His book is “The Deluge.”Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Musician Laraaji joins Sean to talk about improvisation as meditation, the transcendent nature of laughter, and lessons from a long life in sound and spirit. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray AreaGuest: Laraaji. His music can be found at https://laraajimusic.bandcamp.com/Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to hear new episodes of The Gray Area by following us in your favorite podcast app. Links here: https://www.vox.com/the-gray-areaSupport The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcastsThis episode was made by: Producer: Jon Ehrens Engineer: Patrick Boyd Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices