Dragnet: The Big Crime (EP4688)

Summary

The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio

Episode Summary: Dragnet: The Big Crime (EP4688)

Release Date: April 26, 2025
Host: Adam Graham
Podcast: The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio
Host Platform: Adam Graham Radio Detective Podcasts
Website: greatdetectives.net

---

1. Introduction

In this episode of The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio, host Adam Graham presents "Dragnet: The Big Crime," a compelling audio drama from the Golden Age of Radio. This summary delves into the intricate plot of the episode, Adam’s insightful commentary, and the thoughtful feedback from listeners.

---

2. Plot Summary: Dragnet - The Big Crime

[05:07]
The episode opens on a sweltering Saturday evening in Los Angeles, August 7th, when Sergeant Joe Friday (voiced by Jack Webb) and his partner Ben Romero respond to a distressing call from Mrs. Helen Carson. She reports the disappearance of her four-year-old twin daughters, Joan and Tilly, after they wandered off during a picnic in the nearby eucalyptus grove.

[05:55]
As Friday and Romero canvass the neighborhood, searching for leads, they encounter skepticism and frustration. Mrs. Carson anxiously recounts the events:

[08:22] Helen Carson: "Just like I told the other officers."

Despite their thorough investigation, initial efforts yield no fruitful leads, prompting the detectives to intensify their search. A breakthrough occurs when an ice cream vendor, Mr. George Comanches, reports seeing the girls with an unidentified man around 3 PM near the park.

[10:08]
Following this lead, Friday and Romero identify the suspect as GHL Gramberg, an organist from a local bar on 7th Avenue. They confront Gramberg, who initially appears cooperative but soon becomes defensive and aggressive:

[25:10] Ben Romero: "You wanting nothing to do with it."

The tension escalates as Gramberg's alibi starts to crumble, revealing inconsistencies in his story. The detectives persist, eventually linking Gramberg to both the abduction and inappropriate behavior around children—a pivotal discovery that leads to his arrest.

[29:02]
The episode concludes with Gramberg’s guilty plea to kidnapping and child molestation, resulting in his imprisonment. The resolution underscores the meticulous nature of law enforcement work and the challenges faced in protecting vulnerable populations.

---

3. Host Commentary: Adam Graham’s Insights

[30:24]
Adam Graham reflects on the episode's delicate handling of sensitive topics like child abduction and molestation. He praises the balance Dragnet maintains by addressing these issues without being overly explicit, highlighting the societal concerns of the era.

Adam Graham: "This episode... shows how Dragnet balanced the need to show sensitivity while also shining light on difficult issues."

Graham compares the radio drama to its television counterpart, noting differences in performance and production techniques. He emphasizes the dedication of the sound effects team in enhancing the realism of the story.

[31:35]
He also touches on the emotional impact of certain episodes, especially those dealing with crimes against children, acknowledging the profound effect these stories have on listeners.

Adam Graham: "Thinking about it, there are a number of episodes that really do hit hard and hit differently for me now that I'm a parent."

---

4. Listener Feedback and Discussions

Instagram Comments:

• Benton: "That was a creepy criminal. Great job by Stacy Harris and Melanie. Fun fight scene. The sound effects team rocked. Thanks."

  Adam Graham: Appreciates the dedication to realism and professionalism, highlighting the effort of the five sound effects men in making the story come alive.

• History Chaser: "Thank you for keeping these pieces of history alive."

• Fosty Boo Boo (Spotify): "One year for manslaughter of a child."

  Graham’s Response: He scrutinizes the sentencing in the episode, comparing it to current California laws and expressing concern over potential leniency in real-life cases.

• Mike (YouTube): "12 men dropped completely from sight. Serial killer much?"

  Graham’s Response: Agrees with the characterization of the criminal fitting the modern definition of a serial killer, noting the absence of such terminology during the 1950s.

• Harrison: "This episode is one of my favorites. The last line you told me which way to lean is why Ben Romero is my favorite partner of Joe's. I enjoy their small talk and the way they express their friendship."

  Graham’s Response: Praises Ben Romero’s authentic portrayal, emphasizing his deadpan humor and genuine camaraderie with Joe Friday.

YouTube and Spotify Comments:

Listeners express a mix of admiration and critical analysis regarding the episode's portrayal of crime, law enforcement, and sentencing. Some find the criminal justice outcomes questionable, while others appreciate the character dynamics and narrative depth.

---

5. Conclusion

This episode of Dragnet: The Big Crime serves as a quintessential example of old-time radio's ability to tackle serious societal issues through engaging storytelling and authentic character portrayals. Adam Graham’s analysis enriches the listening experience, offering historical context and fostering a deeper appreciation for the narrative intricacies of Dragnet. Listener interactions further underscore the show's enduring impact and its relevance to contemporary discussions on law enforcement and justice.

---

6. Additional Highlights

• Notable Quote:

  Jack Webb (Sergeant Joe Friday): "Ladies and gentlemen, this program is for you, not your children."
  [03:51]

  This parental advisory sets the tone for the episode's mature themes, preparing listeners for the gravity of the unfolding crime.

• Character Dynamics:

  The interplay between Joe Friday and Ben Romero is highlighted as a key element that adds depth and relatability to the narrative, portraying the bond and professional synergy between the detectives.

---

7. Upcoming Episodes and Content

Adam Graham teases future content, including comparisons between radio and television versions of Dragnet, and encourages listeners to engage via social media platforms for more insightful discussions and content updates.

---

Subscribe and Follow:

• Podcast Apps: Available on all major podcast platforms.
• YouTube: Great Detectives on YouTube
• Instagram: @greatdetectives
• Twitter: @radiodetectives

---

The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio continues to bring classic detective stories to modern audiences, preserving the rich legacy of old-time radio dramas with insightful commentary and engaging discussions.

Transcript

[Adam Graham]

People do all their shopping online these days. You could say e commerce businesses fuel our economy. And while many customers think their orders magically appear, it's not magic. Chances are their packages arrived thanks to Shib Station. Last year alone, over 700 million orders were fulfilled with ShipStation. ShipStation syncs orders from everywhere you sell into one dashboard. You can replace manual tasks with custom automations to reduce shipping errors and and Shipstation gets you the best rates across global carriers. You'll save up to 88% off UPS, USPS and DHL rates and up to 90% off FedEx rates. During the time you've been listening to this ad. Another 1,400 packages were shipped with the help of Shipstation. Upgrade to a smoother shipping experience. Go to shipstation.com program to sign up for your free trial. No credit card or contract required and you can cancel anytime. That's shipstation.com program too fast, Trevor.

[Ben Romero]

Too fast.

[Adam Graham]

Here at the Zebra, research shows people would rather teach their kids to drive than search for auto and home insurance.

[Ben Romero]

I know what I'm doing, Mom.

[Adam Graham]

Or attend a corporate team building workshop. Go team. Feel that synergy. Or be regaled by Uncle Frank's conspiracy theories.

[Ben Romero]

They're listening to us right now.

[Adam Graham]

That's why the Zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can Compare. Today at thezebra.com, we do the searching, you do the saving.

[Ben Romero]

Sh. They're here.

[Adam Graham]

Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham. In a moment, we're going to bring you this week's episode of Dragnet, but I do want to encourage you. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your favorite podcast software. And today's episode is brought to you in part by the financial support of our listeners. You can support the show on a one time basis at support.greatdetectives.net and I want to thank Christopher for supporting the podcast that way. You can also send a Super thanks on YouTube by clicking the dollar sign when watching the video. And I want to thank CK for sending along a donation that way. Thank you so much for the super thanks. In addition, you can become one of our ongoing Patreon supporters for as little as $2 per month at patreon.greatdetactives.net and I want to welcome Diane and Jennifer as new Patreon supporters at the Detective Sergeant level of $7.14 or more per month and Sam at the shamus level of $4 or more per month and stave at the rookie level of $2 or more per month. Again, thank you so much for your support. It is truly appreciated. Now, I do want to say that there is actually a parental advisory that Jack Webb recorded before today's episode. And I'd say that is something you may want to keep in mind if you've got particularly young listeners who are co listening with you. But now, from February 15, 1951, here is the big crime.

[Jack Webb]

Ladies and gentlemen, this program is for you, not your children.

[Ben Romero]

The story you are about to hear is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent. You're a detective sergeant. You're assigned a juvenile bureau. A worried mother calls your office and reports that her four year old twin girls are missing. Hours pass the children fail to turn up. Your job. Find them. Dragnet. The documented drama of an actual crime. For the next 30 minutes, in cooperation with the Los Angeles Police Department, you will travel step by step on the side of the law through an actual case. Transcribed from official police files. From beginning to end, from crime to punishment. Dragnet is the story of your police force in action.

[Jack Webb]

It was Saturday. August 7th. Was hot in Los Angeles. We were working the day watch out of juvenile bureau. My partner's Ben Romero. The boss is Inspector Bowling. My name's Friday. It was 7:35pm when we got to where we parked our car. 80k.

[Ben Romero]

There. I didn't see. Now your house is back that way, huh?

[Jack Webb]

Yeah. Why don't you swing around here, huh?

[Ben Romero]

All right. How am I on that side?

[Jack Webb]

Okay. Plenty of room here. No, you better wait a minute. Okay, it's all clear now.

[Ben Romero]

I don't know about you, I think there's something sour about the whole thing.

[Jack Webb]

Wait till we check at the house. The kids might have turned up while we were gone.

[Ben Romero]

I hope so. Sure hate to go back there empty handed. Not one lousy lead.

[Jack Webb]

Yeah, Hard to figure. If the little girl's just wandered off, somebody should have spotted them by this time.

[Ben Romero]

Unless there was some kind of an accident.

[Jack Webb]

Yeah. What time you got?

[Ben Romero]

20 minutes to 8.5hours.

[Jack Webb]

That's a long time for a pair of four year olds to be out of sight in it.

[Ben Romero]

Parents are gonna be worried sick when we tell them. That's it.

[Jack Webb]

Up the next block in it.

[Ben Romero]

Oh, yeah.

[Jack Webb]

Might as well pull up right here, huh?

[Ben Romero]

Yeah, that's good.

[Jack Webb]

Let's go. Lousy job.

[Ben Romero]

I'll put in with you. Oh, yeah. Officers, come in.

[Jack Webb]

Thank you.

[Ben Romero]

Have you heard anything?

[Jack Webb]

No, sir. Not too much. Mr. Carson, we just finished checking the neighborhood.

[Ben Romero]

Somebody around must have seen the kids. Did you talk to everybody? We checked out all the names you gave us, sir. Everyone who knows your little girls. The kids they play with, their friends, parents, storekeepers in the area. But somebody had to see them. They gotta be around someplace. If Joan and Tilly got lost in that park, I know they would have headed up toward home.

[Helen Carson]

Sergeant. What is it? Did you find?

[Jack Webb]

No, we're still checking, Ms. Carsten. There's nothing much to tell you right now.

[Helen Carson]

Dear God. Somebody's got to have seen Tilly. And Joan couldn't have wandered off that far.

[Ben Romero]

I don't think it's as bad as it might seem to you, ma'am. Children have been missing a lot longer than your two little girls and turned up. All right.

[Jack Webb]

Just try to relax, Ms. Carson.

[Helen Carson]

Why hasn't somebody seen them? They wandered off from us in the park. But it's only three blocks from the house. Why isn't somebody seen? It's dark out. God knows what could have happened to them. Wouldn't I?

[Ben Romero]

Now, take it easy, honey. Don't start imagining things. I think it's just a matter of time, ma'am. We've got three teams of men working on it with us. Gotten out of broadcast on your little girl.

[Helen Carson]

Did you talk to the Stanleys down the street in the Petersons?

[Jack Webb]

Yes, ma'am, we did. We checked out all the names that you gave us. There is one thing we wanted to ask you about.

[Ben Romero]

What's that, Sergeant?

[Jack Webb]

What about the spot in the park where you had your picnic this afternoon? Where the little girls wandered off from?

[Helen Carson]

That's exactly what I pointed it out to the other officers. By the eucalyptus Grove, right off 7th Avenue. Just about 2:30 this afternoon. We finished lunch. Frank was taking a nap and I was reading. I saw the girls playing tag over by the trees. I looked up in a few minutes and they were gone. Just like I told the other officers.

[Jack Webb]

Then you're sure about that location, huh?

[Helen Carson]

Of course I'm sure. Why should I lie to you? I want to find the girls. Please find them, Sergeant. Find them.

[Jack Webb]

Yes, ma'am.

[Ben Romero]

Come on, honey. Take it easy, huh? It. It's just never happened to us before, Sergeant. Joan and Tilly have never gone off like this. It's not like them, that's all. Only babies, really.

[Jack Webb]

Would you like me to get that for you, Mr. Carson?

[Ben Romero]

Yes, sir. Would you, please?

[Jack Webb]

Sure. Oh, hi, Wilkie.

[Ben Romero]

Joe. Anything?

[Jack Webb]

No, not yet.

[Ben Romero]

You want to step outside?

[Jack Webb]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Romero]

Ralph and I checked with a Guy who runs an ice cream wagon. He works the area in the park where the kids disappeared.

[Jack Webb]

What'd he tell you?

[Ben Romero]

He saw a couple of little girls about a half a mile from that eucalyptus Grove about 3 o'clock this afternoon. They were with a man.

[Jack Webb]

Yeah.

[Ben Romero]

Says he saw the man put the kids in a truck, drove off with him.

[Jack Webb]

8:00Pm Together with Tom Wilkie, Ben and I left the home of Mr. And Mrs. Frank Carsten, the parents of the missing girls, without telling them about the latest report until it was positively confirmed. We felt that telling them would serve no purpose other than to worry them needlessly. The ice cream vendor, a Mr. George Comanches, who had reported seeing the four year old girls, consented to drive out with us to the park area where he'd spotted the children in the company of an unidentified man.

[Ben Romero]

I was right over there, officers. This big guy, mustache. He had the little girls, one on each hand. He was walking them out of that clump of trees over there. Think you can describe the man for us, Mr. Comanches? I didn't look that close. I thought he was the father. The kids were sniffling, you know, maybe like they'd been crying.

[Jack Webb]

Better check the ground over there by the trees, huh? We'll get him.

[Ben Romero]

Yeah, sure. Stan. Ralph, want to give a look over here? Didn't you notice anything at all about this man, Mr. Comanches? I mean, other than his mustache? Well, a big man, big shoulders, regular truck driver. You know, work shoes, blue shirt, blue pants, jeans, I guess.

[Jack Webb]

How about the color of his hair? Some kind of distinguishing marks maybe?

[Ben Romero]

No, I don't know. I thought he was the father. The kids were sniffling the little girls. Was anything wrong? It didn't look like it.

[Jack Webb]

How about this man's truck? Did you notice that?

[Ben Romero]

No, I didn't. I was busy with the freezer motor. Dent gives me lots of trouble all the time. What about the license number? Do you happen to look at that? Maybe I should have looked. I didn't. Bag of peanuts, officers. Warm, nice and fresh. Yeah, thanks. Here you are. Why don't you eat them while they're warm? Good. No, I save them for my boy. He's crazy for peanuts. So, Ben.

[Jack Webb]

Excuse us, Mr. Comanche.

[Ben Romero]

Sure, sure, go ahead. Yeah, welcome, Stan. Found these over in the bushes by the trees there.

[Jack Webb]

Let me see.

[Ben Romero]

Little girl's petticoat. Little girl's dress ripped to pieces.

[Jack Webb]

8:24Pm the area where the torn clothing was found was roped off and checked for footprints and other physical evidence. None was found. Homicide detail was notified and joined in the investigation. The torn petticoat and dress were taken down to Lee Jones at the crime lab for examination. Then they were shown to the father of the missing children, Frank Carsten. He definitely identified them. The search for the four year old twins, Joan and Tilly, was intensified. An emergency spot check was made of all known and registered sexual psychopaths. From the hundreds of names, the stats office came up with one that might possibly tie in. He was listed as GHL Gramberg. His address was at the end of 7th Avenue, close by the park area where the Carson twins had disappeared. On his mama sheet, Gramberg was described as tall, well built, dark hair with a mustache. We found him at his work, a small bar out in the Wilshire District. He was the organist there.

[Ben Romero]

Yeah, that's right. I live on 7th Avenue, right across from the park. What's the matter this time? Missing juveniles. Can you account for your time between noon and six o'clock tonight, Granberg? I don't know if I can or not. I don't keep a daily log, you know. They didn't tell me how to do that.

[Jack Webb]

Well, tell us where you were between noon and six tonight. That's all we want to know.

[Ben Romero]

That's quite a bit, don't you think? Suppose I told you I was playing canasta with a mate in that. Would that shock you?

[Jack Webb]

Look, we're not in the mood for smart answers. You just give us an alibi we can check, that's all.

[Ben Romero]

I don't know why you always have to bother me when something happens. You made your own reputation. We didn't. Now what about it? I left my apartment about 11:30 this morning. I went down the union hall and paid my dues. Had lunch with some friends with the Blue Pigeon out on Wilcox. Then we went on a tour of one of the studios. All right.

[Jack Webb]

Will your friends confirm that story for you?

[Ben Romero]

Oh, no, they won't. They left town tonight. The 8:15 train for San Francisco. Oh, yes, Mrs. Selden, a special friend.

[Jack Webb]

Of mine from up north. Graham wants to hear Indian Love call, okay?

[Ben Romero]

Certainly, Mr. Seldon. Right away. What about it, Granburg? Who's dodging for your alibi? Already told you my friend's left town. You can check with a guard at the movie studio if you want. We had a pass. Time punched in, time punched out. It should be all there.

[Jack Webb]

You want to call and check that studio?

[Ben Romero]

Yeah. I don't mean to be rude, Sergeant. I always did feel that registration business is unfair.

[Jack Webb]

Oh, that's all.

[Ben Romero]

Course Grossly unfair. How do you suggest we keep track of you? Why do I have to be kept track of anyway?

[Jack Webb]

You know as well as I do, your record.

[Ben Romero]

It's all a lie. I hardly even touched the kid. I paid my time anyway. Why can't you give me a break? Every time something happens to a kid, I have a cop on my neck.

[Jack Webb]

Were you in the 7th Avenue park at any time today? Granberg?

[Ben Romero]

What?

[Jack Webb]

Were you in the 7th Avenue park today?

[Ben Romero]

Matter of fact, I was. Yeah. I took a walk there.

[Jack Webb]

What time was that?

[Ben Romero]

I don't know. I left my friends after lunch. Came home to freshen up about 1:30, I guess. I was in the park about 1:45, 2:00. Only stayed a few minutes.

[Jack Webb]

When did you leave?

[Ben Romero]

About 2:15.

[Jack Webb]

You went from the park to meet your friends at the studio?

[Ben Romero]

Exactly right. Chance, did you see two dark haired.

[Jack Webb]

Little girls while you were in the park?

[Ben Romero]

No, I didn't see anybody. I was by myself. Mm.

[Jack Webb]

You sure of that?

[Ben Romero]

Well, of course I'm sure. If I did see him, it wouldn't mean anything. I don't molest kids. I don't get along with them, that's all. Another one.

[Jack Webb]

Graham, I wonder if you'd mind playing Diane. Anniversary party, you know.

[Ben Romero]

All right. Thanks, Graham. What I was saying, Sergeant, it's the truth. I couldn't hurt a little kid. I never could.

[Jack Webb]

No one says you have.

[Ben Romero]

I know, but I just want you to know how I feel. Maybe I don't get along with kids, but I couldn't hurt them. Little girls especially. I like kids. Really? I just don't understand how I like them. It's a real strange thing, isn't it?

[Jack Webb]

Yeah, it is.

[Ben Romero]

Joe, can I see?

[Jack Webb]

Did you talk to Studio?

[Ben Romero]

Yeah, I checked with the guard.

[Jack Webb]

What'd he say?

[Ben Romero]

Bamberg was there from 2:30 to 4:30.

[Jack Webb]

You double checked the times?

[Ben Romero]

Yeah. His alibi is good.

[Jack Webb]

10:55Pm The 4 year old Carsten girls were still missing. A special detail of men from Homicide were assigned to a general canvas of stores and homes in the park area. All the residents were questioned. No one had seen the children. 11:20pm we headed back for the Karsten home.

[Ben Romero]

I'm all out of smoke, Joe. You got some?

[Jack Webb]

No, I'm out too. There's a drugstore up ahead. I guess we can get some there, huh?

[Ben Romero]

A car in front of us. That's Wilkie and Bates car, isn't it? Let's see.

[Jack Webb]

Yeah. Oh, here's Wilkie coming out of the drugstore.

[Ben Romero]

Hey, Will Romero. Joe just talked to the office.

[Jack Webb]

Anything new?

[Ben Romero]

They got a call from the Valley Station a few minutes ago.

[Jack Webb]

Yeah?

[Ben Romero]

Little girls, they've been found. You are listening to Dragnet for the step by step solution to tonight's authentic case.

[Jack Webb]

11:25Pm as soon as we got the word that the 4 year old Karsten twins had been found, Ben and I drove back to the office where Inspector Bowling filled us in. A few minutes past 11pm A motorist out in the valley spotted the two small girls walking hand in hand along a deserted side road off Ventura Boulevard. Their clothing was dirty and torn. They were alone. The motorist picked them up, took them to the Valley Division station where the girls were identified. We sent out a partial cancellation on the apb. The twin girls were taken to the Georgia Street Receiving Hospital where they were treated for cuts and bruises. Then they were returned to their home. The doctor reported that both girls had been criminally molested. The search for the abductor went on. Late the next day, Ben and I drove out to the Carsten home to talk to the twins, Joan and Tilly. We had no luck at all. They were still shaken up from the excitement and shock of their experience. We went back to the living room with her mother, Helen Carsten.

[Helen Carson]

It was the same thing this morning when I tried to question them. They just don't want to talk about it. Must have been horrible for them.

[Ben Romero]

Did they tell you anything at all, Mrs. Carson?

[Helen Carson]

Well, Joan just refuses to talk about it. She says the man was big. That's all I could get out of her. Tilly seems a little more willing to talk, though. She's always been a little more forward than Joan. Ever since they were babies.

[Jack Webb]

That's right. I see. Well, could she add anything at all to what your other little girl told you about the man?

[Helen Carson]

She told her father the man had a mustache. Probably impressed her because my husband wears one, too. Pretty certain she's right about that. I can usually tell when she's making up things.

[Jack Webb]

Well, how about the way the man was dressed? His clothes?

[Helen Carson]

No, they didn't mention anything particular. Tilly told me the man was dirty. She said it two or three times. Dirty, dirty clothes. She might have meant the man had work clothes on. She has so many expressions. I don't know.

[Ben Romero]

How did the man get your little girls into the truck? Did he offer them candy or something like that?

[Helen Carson]

Well, Tilly said something about a kitten. The man had a little kitten and he was gonna give it to them. I told him about that once. I told them a Thousand times. Stay away from strangers. Don't go with them.

[Jack Webb]

Yes, ma'am. Did they tell you anything else at all about the man's description?

[Helen Carson]

Tilly said the man was big. I don't know if you could count on that because everybody looks big to her. I talked to her an hour, but she just kept repeating the same story. Man made them cry, tore their dresses, hurt them. Just horrible for them.

[Ben Romero]

Yes, ma'am. Did they tell you anything at all about the truck the man was driving? Maybe the color or something like that?

[Helen Carson]

Well, Tilly called it a big car. Funny big car. She said it was red with red pictures all over it. You can't put much faith in that, though.

[Ben Romero]

Why not, ma'am?

[Helen Carson]

Everything's red to Tilly now. Everything has red pictures on it. Just the phase she's going through. A few weeks ago it was blue. Everything was blue to her. Now it's red. Everything's red.

[Jack Webb]

I see. Well, you think they might be able to tell you a little more in a day or so after they've quieted down?

[Helen Carson]

Well, I don't know. I certainly hope so. Thank God it's all over. Their home's safe. That's all that counts.

[Jack Webb]

Oh, ma'am, I'm afraid there's more to it than that.

[Helen Carson]

What?

[Jack Webb]

The man that did it. Still free. Monday, August 9th. The search for the suspect went on. All of us, the men from juvenile and homicide detail were pretty much feeling our way in the dark. Repeated questioning of residents living in the area where the abduction took place netted us nothing. Our two star witnesses, the four year old twins, were able to contribute little. We stayed on it. Another three days of pounding the pavement, knocking on doors and asking stock questions led nowhere. As in most cases like this one, the criminal enjoyed the distinct advantage of having victims who were unable because of their age, to clearly identify him. Tuesday, August 10th. In the late afternoon, we got a call from Bernice Hopper, a real estate agent in the West Hollywood area. 4:15pm Ben and I drove out to interview her.

[Helen Carson]

Excuse me, Officer. I just gotta find that listing book first.

[Ben Romero]

Go right ahead, Ms. Harper.

[Helen Carson]

I just know it's gotta be here someplace. Yesterday morning I remembered a stink. Oh, here it is. There. Now I can start to do business again. Well, I don't know if this is gonna help you and in your case, officers, but I certainly think something should be done about it. Flagrant. That's the only word I can think of. Just flagrant.

[Jack Webb]

You like to tell us about it, ma'am?

[Helen Carson]

Well, I saw him yesterday for One thing. See, I was coming back from lunch about 2:30 in the afternoon. Mondays I always have late lunch.

[Jack Webb]

Yes, I see.

[Helen Carson]

I was just passing the corner a few blocks from the grammar school right up above on Prospect Avenue, and I saw this truck parked and this truck driver leaning out of the window talking to some children. Just tops they were. Just tops.

[Ben Romero]

Yes, ma'am. What happened?

[Helen Carson]

Well, what happened is not so much that. It's just the way this truck driver was talking to these children. I must have been at least 20ft from them and even I could hear.

[Jack Webb]

What was that, ma'am?

[Helen Carson]

His language. Just filthy. I couldn't understand a grown man talking to little tots like that. Every kind of filth, every obscene word you think of. Flagrant. Just flagrant.

[Ben Romero]

Was there any point in the way he was talking to the children, Ms. Harper? I mean, was he mad at them? Did he seem sober? What was it?

[Helen Carson]

It was filth. That's all I know of, sir. Just dirt and filthy. Some of the children didn't like it and they told him that only made him do it all the more. I really think you ought to check up on him.

[Jack Webb]

Yes, ma'am. Well, can you tell us anything else about it?

[Helen Carson]

Oh, would you excuse me, ma'am.

[Jack Webb]

Yes, ma'am.

[Ben Romero]

Go.

[Jack Webb]

Ready?

[Helen Carson]

How do you do? My name's Bernice Hopper. May I help you?

[Ben Romero]

How do you do?

[Jack Webb]

I'm Arthur Tomilson. You showed me in the wife place last weekend.

[Helen Carson]

Oh, yes, of course, Mr. Thomason. The cottage out on Norwich, wasn't it?

[Ben Romero]

Yeah, that's right.

[Jack Webb]

Well, the wife and I certainly didn't like it. She wants me to put a deposit on it. It's still for sale, I guess.

[Helen Carson]

Well, no. As a matter of fact, I stole it Monday. It's just like I told you. Things go fast. Of course, you had a substantial down payment to make at the time.

[Ben Romero]

Oh, yeah, it did take me a.

[Jack Webb]

Few days to get some money together.

[Ben Romero]

It's too bad. Lorraine certainly loved the place. That's too bad, I guess.

[Helen Carson]

I'm very sorry, Mr. Thomason. There wasn't anything I can do.

[Ben Romero]

Oh, yeah, I know that.

[Jack Webb]

Well, thanks anyway, ma'am.

[Ben Romero]

I guess we'll keep looking.

[Jack Webb]

Something may turn up.

[Helen Carson]

I'm sure it will. Thanks for stopping by again, Mr. Thomason.

[Ben Romero]

Yeah. Bye.

[Helen Carson]

Oh, my. Everybody wants something for nothing. They want houses, but they don't show the money. Now, what was it the truck driver.

[Jack Webb]

That you saw, ma'am?

[Helen Carson]

Oh, yeah. Well, after hearing that talk of his, I just copied down the license number of the truck I've got it right here in my desk.

[Ben Romero]

How about the truck driver, ma'am? Did you get a good look at him?

[Helen Carson]

I certainly did. The way he acted with those children.

[Jack Webb]

Anything unusual about his appearance?

[Helen Carson]

No, nothing besides his foul mouth. He was tall, dark, had a mustache, ties in. One more thing. Truck he was driving.

[Jack Webb]

Yes, ma'am.

[Helen Carson]

There were pictures painted on the side. Circus animals, I think.

[Jack Webb]

Did you notice the color?

[Helen Carson]

Oh, yes, it was red. Even the pictures were red.

[Jack Webb]

4:45Pm we took the license number of the truck which Bernice Hopper had given us and drove back to the office and checked it through dmv. We found the truck was registered to a commercial baking firm in the south end of town. Through their personnel department and their dispatcher's office, we got the name and address of the employee who was driving the truck the same day Bernice Hopper had spotted the driver talking to the school children. His name was Lester Wylie. We checked a little further, found that he was driving the same truck the day the Karsten twins were abducted. We called into RNI Wiley had no criminal record. 6:30pm we located the suspect at his home, an old style green and white bungalow on the edge of the Highland park district. He sat in the dining room and drank some kind of sweet wine from a large water glass while we questioned him.

[Ben Romero]

That's sure stupid of me, huh? I didn't even ask if you wanted some of this. No, thank you, Wally. Like to have you explain about your language in front of those school kids. Nothing to explain. Bunch of those kids are hanging around the truck. Thought maybe they wanted to get in and grab some of the cakes and stuff. I read them off, that's all.

[Jack Webb]

Well, that still doesn't explain the filthy language, Wally.

[Ben Romero]

I don't know. Maybe I wasn't feeling good that day. Might let a few cuss words slip. I haven't made anything by it. I like kids.

[Jack Webb]

Do you usually make deliveries up around that school area, Wally?

[Ben Romero]

Once in a while, yeah. I get around quite a bit. That's not what they tell us down where you work, huh? You had no business in the neighborhood of that school. You delivery routes on the other end of town. So I can't drive where I want, huh? I get the deliveries made. What are they squawking about?

[Jack Webb]

Like to know what you were doing up in that neighborhood?

[Ben Romero]

I was on my lunch hour. Drove up to see a friend. I got a friend living near the school. What's the matter anyway? Don't you think you've had enough of that? Look, you're not telling me what I have to do in my house. This is my house. I want a glass of wine. I have it. You're not telling me what to do.

[Jack Webb]

All right, Wiley, just take it easy.

[Ben Romero]

Take it easy Nothing. I talked to you too. Long enough. There's the door. You're not coming in here telling me what to do.

[Jack Webb]

You better get your coat. We'll talk downtown.

[Ben Romero]

We're not talking any place. Now get out. Get out of this house right now. Afraid your alibi's not gonna hold up, Wylie? Is that it? I don't know what you're talking about. You're trying to frame me. Don't you think I know that?

[Jack Webb]

That doesn't make much sense. Why should we want to frame you?

[Ben Romero]

I know what you're getting at. Just what you're getting at. Those two little girls last week. You're gonna say I took em. You're gonna say I did things to em. Well, I didn't anything to do with it.

[Jack Webb]

Didn't you?

[Ben Romero]

Well, no. No, I didn't. Oh, look, I'm sorry. Why don't you sit down? I didn't mean what I said. Cause I just got nervous.

[Jack Webb]

Sure, Wiley, we understand.

[Ben Romero]

Why don't you let me get a couple of glasses, huh? Have some of this wine. Warms you up good. No, thank you. Just like to have you straighten us out on a couple of things and we'll let you alone. Yeah. Like to know if you can account for your time between 12 noon and 11pm last Saturday. That's the day somebody picked up those two little girls, isn't it?

[Jack Webb]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ben Romero]

Wiley. I don't know. I was making deliveries like I always.

[Jack Webb]

Do up to 11 o'clock at night.

[Ben Romero]

I was a little late. Yeah. Nothing unusual though.

[Jack Webb]

That so?

[Ben Romero]

Another working day. It's all. It's good wine. I might have been near the park where those kids were. Doesn't mean anything though. I get around quite a bit. A lot of deliveries to make.

[Jack Webb]

All right, come on. How about it, Wiley? Did you grab those two little girls?

[Ben Romero]

Watch a joke.

[Jack Webb]

All right, mister, that's enough.

[Ben Romero]

Get out of my house. Get out of my house.

[Jack Webb]

All right, Ben. Get him on himself.

[Ben Romero]

You never prove it, you know that?

[Jack Webb]

What about it, Wiley?

[Ben Romero]

It's a use. It's no good at all.

[Jack Webb]

You want to tell us about it?

[Ben Romero]

I didn't mean it at so I didn't mean it. Just once in a while something goes wrong with me. I like kids. Like them too much, I guess. I didn't mean to hurt them. You ready to go now? Anything you say? Thought I had it with me when I grabbed the kids.

[Jack Webb]

What?

[Ben Romero]

Thought it was in my coat pocket. Glad I lost it.

[Jack Webb]

Glad you lost what?

[Ben Romero]

A pocket knife. I was gonna kill him. The story you have just heard was true. Only the names were changed to protect the innocent. On December 10, trial was held in Superior Court Department 87, City and County of Los Angeles, State of California. In a moment, the results of that trial. Now here is our star, Jack Webb.

[Jack Webb]

Thank you, friends. As you might have heard me say before, on Dragnet, we try to present the kind of entertainment that you want. You're the boss.

[Ben Romero]

Lester Wy waved his his rights to a preliminary hearing. And at his arraignment in Superior Court, he entered a plea of guilty to one count of kidnapping and one count of child molesting. He received the sentence as prescribed by law and is now serving his term in the state penitentiary. You have just heard Dragnet a series of authentic cases from official files. Technical advice for Dragnet comes from the office of Chief of Police W.H. parker, Los Angeles Police Department.

[Jack Webb]

Now there's more exciting listening with CounterSpy on NBC.

[Adam Graham]

Welcome back. This is a great episode. It shows how Dragnet balanced the need to show sensitivity while also shining light on difficult issues. In this case, it dealt with the very real issue of child abductions and molestation without getting too explicit, and it highlighted the problems out there. Certainly the police can question registered offenders, but so many are not caught or have not been caught and fly under the radar. The only way they found out in this case was because of the language he was using around kids. I questioned in the past and still question whether he'd even be reported today. I think so many people feel free to talk however they like around kids that no one would take notice of it. The TV version of this is also very good and it's a little different for the performance of Jack Krushen, who played the criminal. The TV episode actually ends after Friday and his partner leave with the suspect the camera panning down to show the knife on the floor and dwell on it, showing how something that was this horrible really could have actually been much, much worse. Well, now we turn to listener comments and feedback and we start on Instagram with a comment regarding the radio version of the big cast Brains. Benton writes, that was a creepy criminal. Great job by Stacy Harris and Melanie Comments. Fun fight scene. The sound effects team rocked. Thanks. Melanie Webb actually had five sound effects men work on Dragnet and there was just a great dedication to realism and professionalism in the way they did everything, and they did a great job making that story come alive. I will go ahead and tease and I'll tease a bit at the end of the episode. Our video theater this week will actually be the TV version of the big cast, so you can compare it to the radio version. I actually think that while Stacy Harris did a good job, the actor in the TV version does even better. And there were also some interesting things that they did with the TV version of the fight. So I encourage you to check that out on video theater. And the History Chaser writes, thank you for keeping these pieces of history alive. And another listener comment specifically regarding the episode Add insult to injury. The mom only gets a year on a manslaughter charge. Children didn't rate too highly even back then. And in a similar vein on Spotify, Fosty Boo Boo writes one year for manslaughter of a child. I would agree that based on everything we heard in that episode, one year seemed radical lenient. I checked and under current California law, involuntary manslaughter can carry a sentence of up to four years in prison and voluntary manslaughter up to 11. I don't know if the statutes have been changed over the years to make the sentence for manslaughter harsher, but again, we didn't get anything in that episode that would make us think that that there were mitigating circumstances that would indicate a lesser sentence. It does always seem that there are some judges who just don't take these sort of things as seriously as they ought. Every few years there'll be a situation where there's a crime against a child and their person is found guilty and the sentence just doesn't seem just at all. Another comment from YouTube regarding this, a listener writes, as a parent, I think this might have been the single hardest episode to listen to of any show on your channel. Thanks for the comment and sorry about that. Of course that was posted before today's episode, which for many listeners might be much more difficult. But on this one anyway, I warned you and so did Jack Webb. Thinking about it, there are a number of episodes that really do hit hard and hit differently for me now that I'm a parent. This one and the big children to a certain extent, and then something like 22 rifle for Christmas. Now keep in mind that they replayed 22 rifle for Christmas in December of 19. So parents got all three of those episodes within about a two and a half month period. I will say that while there are some episodes that can be emotionally challenging to a degree. I don't think you really get something quite on that level throughout the rest of the radio series. So I don't know, maybe they got a few letters from parents asking them to maybe tone it down a tad. Back to Spotify. And another comment regarding the big cast, Mike writes, 12 men dropped completely from sight. Serial killer much? Yeah, I think that the killer in the big cast would fit the modern definition of a serial killer. It just wasn't a term in use back in the 1950s, at least not on Dragnet. But he definitely fits. And there were serial killers like that. You might think of some of the ones who were more sensationally perverse, but there were quite a few serial killers in more modern times who very much fit the profile of the man in that episode. And then we have some comments from Harrison regarding few episodes. And we start with the big jump where he begins with a quote from the this Harrison is a mental case. Well, that's a fine how do you do, Ben? I've had a few episodes I've listened to where the villain killer bad guy lowlife was named Graham, and it is a little weird listening to, so I empathize. He goes on to write, this episode is one of my favorites. The last line you told me which way to lean is why Ben Romero is my favorite partner of Joe's. I enjoy their small talk and the way they express their friendship through lines like that. Well, thanks so much, Harrison. And I think that there is something about Ben Romero when you get into Ben Alexander and later Harry Morgan. They do bring a certain added entertainment value to the episodes, if at all possible. Writers give them two or three minutes for a comedy sketch in which they show how odd and quirky they are, and I quite enjoy that. But with Ben Romero, I think you do have someone who feels more authentically like an actual police officer. An actual typical police officer with deadpan humor and ways of trying to make light of situations that really could have been quite, quite deadly. My favorite example of that is in that episode, the City hall bombing or the Human Bomb, where Friday gets the bomb and trips and falls down the steps. The bomb goes flying but doesn't go off, and it turns out that it needed a hard pull. So they're safe, though they easily could have got blown up and Romero just comes over to Friday and says, clumsy. That is such a real moment and it really does work quite well in the context of the show. And I don't think any other Joe Friday partner would pull that off. And regarding the big family, he writes, maybe I missed something. But isn't the crime at the. Isn't it a crime to, at the very least, the wasted man hours of the police department? I figure if anyone would be irked at that, it'd be Joe Friday. Well, to be fair, I think Joe Friday showed he was irked in a professional way. He's not going to go off on the gentleman, but he did tell him, you know, aren't we kind of entitled to an explanation? We were put to a lot of trouble because of this or words to that effect. Obviously, he was annoyed and he felt like, come on, you gotta explain what happened here. But it's not something you can prosecute for. Now, you or I, at any time we'd like, can go down to the bus station, buy a ticket to Oklahoma City, not tell anyone where we're going or why we're going, and just wander around Oklahoma City, hitchhike around Oklahoma. And that's not a crime, you know, unless hitchhiking in Oklahoma is. Then don't hitchhike in Oklahoma. I'm not an expert on Oklahoma law, but regardless, you know, if you just want to wander around Oklahoma, that's not a crime. Of course, you know, if you get in the wrong place, there are vagrancy laws and things like that. But if I disappear from Boise without giving any notice, I don't have any responsibility to the city of Boise to tell them, hey, I need to let you know where I'm going so that you don't worry, because I'm not accountable to them. Now, there are people I am accountable to, and I'm not going to do that. But the city is not owed an explanation. And the best defense, if they try to drag him under court for some pretense and say, you caused us to spend a lot of man hours and his responsib. Who asked you to? I didn't ask you to. I didn't ask you to go and spend your time searching for me. So, yes, the police were irked, but no, that is not a crime. And then we go back a bit where Harrison writes regarding Ben's quest for graham bread. You mentioned a place in Illinois that supposedly still makes their version of the bread. Well, it just so happens I live in Illinois. Maybe this could be a podcast special assignment. I do want to be careful here because actually, as a state, Illinois has some of the highest concentration of listeners in the entire country. I could say the entire world, which would be true, but 80% of our listeners are in the US. So that is just being overly dramatic. Illinois has the sixth highest population in the United States, but produced the third most downloads to our podcast. A bit more than Florida which has double the population. All that to say want to swamp this poor bakery, but they do actually ship their bread, which is good because our Illinois listeners are centered around the Chicago area. And of course according to Google Maps, this bakery is about a 40 minute drive. Which you think about it, you know, both ways, you're looking at an hour and 20 minutes to try out some bread and even further if you're in other parts of the state. And let me just say I do not have any experience with this bakery. They aren't paying and I can't vouch for the quality. But if you want to try it out, it is The Ideal Bakery. Idealbakery.net and they are in Elk Grove Village. If you have to drive any distance there, I would go on the website, get their phone number and call ahead. But if you want to just have Ambred shipped to you and find out what it is that so excited the Romero's about this then yeah, just go to idealbakery.net and you can order it shipped and probably from outside of Illinois as well. Alright, well now it's time to thank our Patreon supporter of the day and I want to go ahead and thank Eliza. Eliza's been one of our patreon supporters since July 2021, currently supporting the podcast at the shamus level of $4 or more per month. Thanks so much for your support, Eliza. That'll actually do it for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your favorite podcast software. And if you're enjoying the podcast on YouTube, be sure to like the video, subscribe to the channel and mark the notification bell. All those great things that help YouTube channels to grow. We'll be back next Saturday with another episode of Dragnet for Public Domain Video Theater. This weekend we are bringing you the big Cast television version with Lee Marvin. You can find that on our YouTube channel. You can also find it at videotheater.greatdetives.net and wherever you get video podcasts such as the Apple Podcast Store or Podmain and now on Spotify. And then join us back here on Monday for the Adventures of the Falcon.

[Ben Romero]

Where I wonder if you could help me out. Well, if it entails making like a bird dog, I'm afraid not. I've quit the racket. This would be a cinch. I'm looking for a girl named Florida Florette. Duval? That's like looking for John Smith in New York. So I learned the hard way. I ran into one of them this afternoon. Almost got myself in a jam. What happened? It's a long, dull story. Well, I don't mind, as long as your brandy holds out. Well, during the war, my brother wound up in the hands of the Gestapo, thanks to a Florette Duval. I got a tip she was in Paris and living in the Palouse de Vrain. Lucky she was the wrong girl. Lucky for whom, huh? I see you're packing a gun. Yeah. If she hadn't done some fast talking, the John Darms might be hunting a killer tonight. Obviously, she was the wrong girl.

[Jack Webb]

Yeah.

[Ben Romero]

She couldn't possibly have known Paul. She was brought up. Wait a minute. She knew his name was Paul? You probably told her. No, I just referred to him as my brother. She was the one who came up with the name. What do you know? She was the right Florette Duval after all. Sorry, Waring. I gotta run. Where do you think you're going? Correct a mistake I made. You're out of your mind. Be a good kid and stay out of this. Look, if you think I'm gonna let you walk out of here and commit murder. That's exactly what I think. Now get out of my way. Don't be a fool, Collier. You're gonna get out of my way. Give me that gun. Okay.

[Adam Graham]

I hope you'll be with us then. In the meantime, send your comments to Box [e-mail] follow us on Twitter at radiodetectives and check us out on Instagram. Instagram.com greatdetectives from Boise, Idaho, this is your host, Adam Graham, signing off.