Mr. and Mrs. North: Don't Cry Wolf (EP4668)

Summary

Summary of “Mr. and Mrs. North: Don't Cry Wolf” (EP4668)

---

Podcast Information

• Title: The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio
• Host/Author: Adam Graham, Radio Detective Podcasts
• Episode: Mr. and Mrs. North: Don't Cry Wolf (EP4668)
• Release Date: April 3, 2025

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio, host Adam Graham presents "Mr. and Mrs. North: Don't Cry Wolf." This installment delves into a gripping mystery involving friendship, betrayal, and suspense, set against the backdrop of the Golden Age of Radio. Throughout the episode, Adam Graham provides insightful commentary and engages with listener feedback, enhancing the listening experience for both new and longtime fans.

---

Episode Plot

Setting the Scene

The episode opens with Pam and Jerry North, the titular detective couple, encountering a distressed Mrs. Vance who urgently seeks their help ([01:32] Mrs. Vance: "Help me, Mr. Mrs. North. Help me. If you don't, he'll kill me too."). This initial plea sets off a chain of events that unravel deep-seated tensions and hidden motives.

Confrontation Between Friends

Harold Vance and Carl Lederer, once close friends, find themselves at odds. Their heated exchange reveals underlying jealousy and mistrust:

• Harold Vance: "I don't want you ever to set foot in my home again." ([02:16])
• Carl Lederer: "Our friendship means too much to me. Friendship?" ([02:35])

Harold accuses Carl of improper relations with his wife, Louise, igniting a confrontation that hints at deeper personal conflicts and possible motives for sinister actions.

Introduction of Suspicion

As tensions escalate, Harold mentions financial discrepancies, suggesting potential embezzlement by Carl:

• Harold Vance: "What have you done with my money?" ([04:40])
• Carl Lederer: "You don't like what she's doing to you. You've been different ever since you met her." ([04:33])

These accusations lay the groundwork for suspicions surrounding both personal and financial betrayals.

Arrival of Mrs. Vance and Rising Tensions

Mrs. Vance's erratic behavior introduces further complexity. She exhibits signs of a persecution complex, believing that her husband is out to harm her and others:

• Mrs. Vance: "I saw him kill Harold. Don’t let him." ([16:37])

Her sudden outbursts and conflicting testimonies complicate the investigation, making it challenging for Mr. and Mrs. North to discern the truth.

Climactic Revelations

The episode reaches its climax when Mrs. Vance claims to have witnessed Stephen Winters killing her husband, Harold:

• Mrs. Vance: "I saw Mr. Winters arguing with Harold. I saw him grab a paper knife from the desk and stab Harold with it." ([20:22])

Pam North skillfully dissects these claims, leveraging observable inconsistencies and logical deductions to uncover the real culprit. The revelation hinges on a critical mathematical fact that exposes Winters' deceit, ultimately solving the mystery.

---

Key Insights and Conclusions

"Don't Cry Wolf" masterfully intertwines personal relationships with financial intrigue, creating a multifaceted mystery that keeps listeners engaged. The episode highlights themes such as:

• Betrayal and Trust: The breakdown of friendship between Harold and Carl underscores how trust can be easily eroded by jealousy and misunderstandings.

• Perception vs. Reality: Mrs. Vance's distorted perception of events illustrates how personal biases and emotional turmoil can cloud judgment and lead to false accusations.

• Logical Deduction: Pam North’s analytical approach exemplifies the classic detective method of using logic and evidence to unravel complex situations.

The resolution emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and questioning assumptions, showcasing how even amidst chaos and conflicting narratives, truth can be unearthed through careful investigation.

---

Host’s Commentary and Listener Feedback

Adam Graham’s Analysis ([27:18] - [23:43])

After the episode, Adam Graham provides thoughtful commentary, reflecting on the narrative’s strengths and areas for improvement:

• Character Dynamics: Graham appreciates how Pam and Jerry’s professional relationship is portrayed through Jerry's role as a publisher, adding a believable layer to their investigative partnership. He notes, "a modern Jerry north would probably just drop the whole thing in the lap of the attorneys" ([27:23]).

• Persecution Complex Revelation: The host praises the introduction of Mrs. Vance's persecution complex, stating it creates a compelling premise that keeps listeners guessing about the true murderer: "the key clue may have been one of the strongest ones we've heard" ([27:45]).

• Listener Feedback: Graham engages with listener comments, acknowledging critiques and providing clarifications. For instance, he responds to Mechanic6682's observation about Pam's character, agreeing that "there is far too much doubting Pam after all of the cases that she has solved" ([28:10]).

Community Engagement

Listeners contribute diverse perspectives, enhancing the discussion:

• Mechanic6682: Praises Pam’s character for maintaining integrity amidst chaos, suggesting that the episode effectively portrays realistic challenges faced by publishers regarding plagiarism claims.

• Dr. Kamal: Highlights the clever use of dual personalities within the storyline, appreciating the complexity added to character motivations.

• Carlotta: Corrects a minor factual error about actress Virginia Payne, demonstrating the community’s active role in ensuring accuracy and enriching the podcast's historical context.

Graham’s receptive and appreciative responses foster a sense of community, encouraging continued listener participation and engagement.

---

Conclusion

“Don’t Cry Wolf” is a standout episode that intricately weaves personal vendettas with financial deception, all while maintaining the suspense and charm of old-time radio detective stories. Through adept storytelling and insightful commentary, Adam Graham not only entertains but also invites listeners to engage critically with the narrative. This episode exemplifies why The Great Detectives of Old Time Radio remains a beloved series for mystery enthusiasts and aficionados of classic radio dramas.

---

Notable Quotes

• Mrs. Vance's Plea: "Help me, Mr. Mrs. North. Help me. If you don't, he'll kill me too." ([01:32])

• Harold Vance's Accusation: "I don't want you ever to set foot in my home again." ([02:16])

• Carl Lederer's Plea: "Our friendship means too much to me. Friendship?" ([02:35])

• Mrs. Vance's Revelation: "I saw him kill Harold. Don’t let him." ([16:37])

• Pam North’s Deduction: "You're sure?" ([20:08])

---

Additional Resources

• Podcast Website: www.greatdetectives.net
• Subscribe: Available on all major podcast platforms.
• Follow on Twitter: @RadioDetectives
• Instagram: instagram.com/GreatDetectives

---

This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the "Don't Cry Wolf" episode, capturing essential plot points, thematic elements, and community interactions that enhance the storytelling experience.

Transcript

[Adam Graham]

Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham. In a moment, we're going to bring you this week's episode of Mr. And Mrs. North. But first, I do want to encourage you, if you're enjoying the podcast, to please follow us using your favorite podcast software. Also, if you've not already, I do encourage you to check out my ebooks. All I Needed to Know, I Learned from Dragnet, and All I Needed to Know I Learned Learned from Columbo. Each examines the careers and history of seven great fictional detectives and policemen and life lessons that can be learned from them. You can find these as ebooks wherever fine ebooks are sold, or also as audiobooks through audible.com or the Apple Store. Now, from March 11, 1952, here is Don't Cry Wolf.

[Jerry North]

Jerry.

[Pam North]

I heard it. Ben.

[Jerry North]

Somebody's coming out of the vance's apartment.

[Pam North]

It's Mrs. Vance. Mrs. Vance.

[Mrs. Vance]

Help me, Mr. Mrs. North. Help me. If you don't, he'll kill me too.

[Pam North]

Mr. And Mrs. North, starring Joseph Curtin and Alice Frost. Listen as Pam and Jerry solve the mystery. Don't Cry wolf. There are few bonds stronger than those.

[Stephen Winters]

Made of the memories of men who.

[Pam North]

Went to school together and went to.

[Stephen Winters]

War together and returned to peace together.

[Pam North]

Those are the bonds that held Harold Vance to Carl Lederer. Strong bonds of many strands. Yet suddenly the bonds have snapped.

[Stephen Winters]

For there is hatred in Vance's eyes.

[Pam North]

As he glares at the man who was his friend.

[Harold Vance]

You heard me, Carl. I don't want you ever to set foot in my home again.

[Carl Lederer]

Yeah, and you seem to mean it. But I can't believe it.

[Harold Vance]

But I mean it.

[Carl Lederer]

Now look, old man, I. I don't know what it is that's eating you, but whatever it is, I don't want to discuss it.

[Pam North]

I do.

[Carl Lederer]

Our friendship means too much to me. Friendship?

[Harold Vance]

You're a fine one to talk about friendship. Are you going to get out of here or do I have to throw you out?

[Carl Lederer]

I think at least I have a right to know the reason.

[Harold Vance]

You know the reason.

[Carl Lederer]

Tell me anyway.

[Stephen Winters]

Louise.

[Carl Lederer]

What?

[Pam North]

What about Louise?

[Harold Vance]

Oh, don't act so innocent. She told me all about it.

[Carl Lederer]

All about what? There's nothing to tell. Nothing to tell?

[Harold Vance]

I should have known. Without a telling. I saw things. Lots of things. But you were my friend. I never imagined.

[Carl Lederer]

Are you trying to say I made love to your wife?

[Harold Vance]

You wanted to.

[Pam North]

Tried to.

[Harold Vance]

Would have if she'd let you.

[Carl Lederer]

Your craze.

[Harold Vance]

I tell you, she told me.

[Carl Lederer]

Then she's crazy.

[Harold Vance]

I've seen enough myself for always hanging around here.

[Carl Lederer]

Why, naturally, you and I appear.

[Harold Vance]

And when I'm not here. You've taken her out a number of.

[Carl Lederer]

Times when you were busy. She was lonely. I thought you'd want me to.

[Pam North]

Oh, sure.

[Harold Vance]

Just exactly what I'd want. My pal playing around with my wife.

[Carl Lederer]

Oh, really, Harold. This whole thing is ridiculous. As a matter of fact, if you want the truth, I. Well, I really don't even like Louise.

[Harold Vance]

Sure, when you see she won't give you a tumble.

[Carl Lederer]

No, no, no, no. I don't like what she's doing to you. You've been different ever since you met her. The trouble with her.

[Harold Vance]

I don't need you to tell me about Louise. You don't like her, that's fine. She certainly doesn't like you. And she doesn't want you around here bothering her.

[Mrs. Vance]

So.

[Harold Vance]

Are you going to. Must be Winters. I asked him over on business. And since you and I haven't anything more to say to each other.

[Carl Lederer]

Oh, it's no use now. I can see that. Maybe some other time when you've come to your senses.

[Harold Vance]

That's just it.

[Carl Lederer]

I have.

[Harold Vance]

All right, all right, I'm coming. Hello, Winters. Come in.

[Pam North]

Yes?

[Stephen Winters]

Oh, good evening, Mr. Letter. Hope I'm not interrupting.

[Carl Lederer]

No, I'm leaving anyway. Good night, Harold.

[Stephen Winters]

Now, what goes on with you two? You practically slammed the door in his face.

[Harold Vance]

Never mind about us. What about you?

[Stephen Winters]

How bite. What about me?

[Harold Vance]

What have you done with my money?

[Stephen Winters]

Done with it? You know, paid your bills, invested some.

[Harold Vance]

Of it in my name or yours. I have an idea you're gambling on my money.

[Stephen Winters]

Are you kidding?

[Harold Vance]

You'll find out if I'm kidding when my lawyer gets through with you.

[Stephen Winters]

Lawyer? You. You're really serious about this?

[Harold Vance]

You bet I am. And if you don't make good every penny, you'll wind up in jail, you rotten crook.

[Carl Lederer]

You're going to take that.

[Harold Vance]

Did you say? I'm going to take something back. I'll take it back if I'm wrong.

[Stephen Winters]

You are wrong, Vance.

[Harold Vance]

I hope so, but I doubt it. Anyway, we're going to have an accounting. You're going to tell me exactly what you've done with the money. Anything I don't like or I don't understand. I'm setting up an appointment with a lawyer, and you can tell him. But first, go on upstairs and do something about that nose. They're getting blood on my carpet.

[Pam North]

Yes?

[Jerry North]

There's a Mr. Vance out here to see you.

[Pam North]

Jerry, what's it about?

[Jerry North]

He says he's considering suing you.

[Pam North]

Oh, well, as long as he isn't trying to sell me something. All right, Pam, tell him to come in.

[Mrs. Vance]

Yes, dear.

[Pam North]

Sue me. Shoot bullets through me. Hello, Mr. Vance. Yes, come in.

[Harold Vance]

That's a cute secretary you have out there, Mr. North.

[Pam North]

That's no secretary. That's my wife.

[Harold Vance]

Oh.

[Pam North]

She comes down to help out once in a while. Well, now, what's this about your suing me?

[Harold Vance]

Mr. North, recently some of my closest associates have, well, betrayed me. That's the only word for it.

[Pam North]

Well, sue them. But why me?

[Harold Vance]

That's just it. I may very well do that. And after all, if I stand up to my friends, you can't expect me to take something from a total stranger lying down, can you?

[Pam North]

Suppose you come to the point, Mr. North.

[Harold Vance]

My wife writes mystery stories.

[Pam North]

You have my sympathy.

[Harold Vance]

She sent one of them to you. The Mystery of the Missing Mink.

[Pam North]

Missing mink? Oh, yes, I vaguely remember it.

[Harold Vance]

You exactly remember it. You published it.

[Pam North]

I did?

[Harold Vance]

Only you called it, how dead can you get?

[Pam North]

I do remember that. But you don't mean to tell me that's your wife's story.

[Harold Vance]

It was stolen from her. You told me the plot of both stories. They're almost identical.

[Pam North]

She told you after she read the one I published.

[Harold Vance]

Are you suggesting my wife's lying?

[Pam North]

Take it easy. You're suggesting I'm a plagiarist. So this isn't exactly a tea party. Just what is it you want?

[Harold Vance]

A settlement.

[Pam North]

And if I refuse?

[Harold Vance]

You can talk to my lawyer.

[Pam North]

We might both be spared some unpleasantness if we talk to your wife first. I assume she still has a manuscript.

[Harold Vance]

Naturally.

[Pam North]

Where do you live?

[Harold Vance]

418 Whitten Avenue.

[Pam North]

That's on our way. Mrs. North. And I'll stop off on our way home.

[Harold Vance]

Just what do you hope to prove?

[Pam North]

I'll leave the proving to you. If you can show me that those two stories are too much alike for coincidence, you'll get your settlement.

[Jerry North]

I don't think he was very observing. He should have been able to tell by your eyes that you wouldn't.

[Pam North]

Who should have been able to tell by my eyes that I wouldn't what, dear Mr. Vance?

[Jerry North]

That you wouldn't do anything dishonest. You have very honest eyes, Jerry.

[Pam North]

Oh, well, thank you, darling. Apartment 9G. This is it. I'll ring. As a matter of fact, dear, I don't think Mr. Vance noticed my eyes. He was more interested in yours.

[Mrs. Vance]

Your.

[Pam North]

He thinks you're cute.

[Jerry North]

Oh, really?

[Pam North]

So he said, do you still think he's not observant?

[Jerry North]

Well, I just thought.

[Mrs. Vance]

Yes?

[Pam North]

Mrs. Vance?

[Mrs. Vance]

Yes?

[Pam North]

We're Mr. And Mrs. North.

[Mrs. Vance]

Oh, yes. Harold said you were coming. Come in, won't you?

[Carl Lederer]

Thank you.

[Mrs. Vance]

He's in his study. I'll call him. But I. I would like to talk to you first. Won't you sit down?

[Pam North]

Thank you.

[Mrs. Vance]

I'm terribly sorry about this misunderstanding.

[Pam North]

Misunderstanding?

[Mrs. Vance]

Why, yes. About the story I told Harold. There were a few things in the two stories that were similar, but I never meant to suggest that. Well, if there was any question of plagiarism, I'm glad to hear it. When Harold came home tonight and told me he'd been to see you, why, I felt like a fool. You see, he. I don't know just how to put this.

[Jerry North]

He's.

[Mrs. Vance]

Well, he's terribly suspicious. He doesn't trust anyone.

[Pam North]

Yes, he told me his friends are betraying him.

[Mrs. Vance]

Awful. He's accused his business manager of cheating him. And he's ordered car letterer, his oldest friend, never to come here again.

[Jerry North]

Did he give you any reason, Mrs. Van?

[Mrs. Vance]

Why, he thinks too ridiculous. I'd rather not discuss it.

[Pam North]

That's all right. It's really none of our business. And as long as the matter of the story is cleared up.

[Mrs. Vance]

Yes, I think it is.

[Jerry North]

Out.

[Mrs. Vance]

I'll try to convince him. The trouble is, though, he doesn't even trust me. He keeps on spying on me as though I.

[Jerry North]

What is the matter?

[Mrs. Vance]

I don't know. It's a pain under my heart.

[Pam North]

Can we do anything?

[Mrs. Vance]

No, no, no. It'll go. I've had this before. It happens sometimes when I drink. Harold brought me a cocktail a little while ago, and I guess it's.

[Jerry North]

Yes, Mrs. Vance, what is it?

[Mrs. Vance]

I just happened to think it only happens when he mixes the drinks.

[Pam North]

Good Lord. Are you trying to save.

[Carl Lederer]

What's the matter?

[Mrs. Vance]

Told you. Harold spies on me. I heard a sound out in the hall. He must be out there listening.

[Pam North]

I'll go see. Hello, Mr. Vance. Oh, Mr. North.

[Harold Vance]

So you did come.

[Pam North]

Yes. How long have you been out here in the hall? What?

[Harold Vance]

I just came down from the study. I heard the doorbell a little while ago and thought it must be you.

[Pam North]

But you haven't been waiting out here. You didn't hear our conversation with your wife? No.

[Stephen Winters]

Why?

[Harold Vance]

Is it a secret?

[Pam North]

No, it's just we thought we heard someone. Well, it doesn't matter. The important thing right now is your wife. She's not feeling well. What?

[Harold Vance]

Louise, what is it? What's wrong?

[Mrs. Vance]

I'll be all Right.

[Jerry North]

If there's anything we can do.

[Harold Vance]

No, no, I'll take care of her. Well, you'd better run along so she can rest.

[Pam North]

We'd like to help.

[Harold Vance]

I said I'll take care of it. Thanks just the same.

[Pam North]

She may need a doctor.

[Harold Vance]

Then I'll call one. Now, will you please go?

[Pam North]

All right. Come on, Pam. There's nothing we can do. Good night, Mrs. Vance. Mr. Vance. Good night. Pam.

[Jerry North]

Yes, Jerry? Jerry North. We can't just leave her like that. You heard what she implied.

[Pam North]

Yes, but there was no use making a scene. We don't have any proof.

[Jerry North]

Well, then we'll have to get proof. And we better hurry before it's too late. What are we gonna do, Jerry?

[Pam North]

First, let's see if there's a drugstore anywhere. Yes, there's one down the block. Come on.

[Jerry North]

What are you gonna get?

[Pam North]

Nothing. I just want to look in a phone book.

[Jerry North]

For what? Or who?

[Pam North]

Call Lederer. Mrs. Vance said he's Vance's oldest friend.

[Jerry North]

That's right, Jerry. But she said Mr. Vance had a fight with him. Ordered him out of the house.

[Pam North]

Yes, and he ordered us out.

[Jerry North]

But you think Mr. Lederer may disobey the order?

[Pam North]

I think he's likely to be in a better position to than we are. After all, dear old friends can rush in where strangers may not tread. I only hope he's in the phone book. Pam and I thought we'd better come right over here and talk to you.

[Carl Lederer]

I'm glad you did. In spite of our misunderstanding. Harold's been my friend too long for me to turn my back. I want to see him do anything he'll regret.

[Jerry North]

Do you really think he'd harm his wife?

[Pam North]

What?

[Carl Lederer]

Oh, no, no, of course not. But I can see how she'd think so. Very unwholesome things going on in that house. Very.

[Pam North]

Mr. Van seems to think everyone's turned against him and he's fighting back.

[Carl Lederer]

I know. Going to have to make him realize how foolish. It won't be easy, but perhaps if we all work on him together. Show him how it adds up.

[Jerry North]

What do you mean?

[Carl Lederer]

You say he accused Steven Winters too?

[Pam North]

Yes, of cheating him. Also, Mrs. Vansett.

[Carl Lederer]

Case of everybody out of step but Harold. Maybe he'll see it if we all show him at once. I'm gonna call Winters, see if he can meet us over there.

[Pam North]

You want us to go back with you?

[Carl Lederer]

No, not right away. I'd like to talk to Harold alone first. Prepare the ground if he'll listen. I want to see how Louise Is too.

[Jerry North]

Yes. You better get started.

[Carl Lederer]

As soon as I call Winters. You folks say you didn't have dinner yet.

[Pam North]

That's right. We stopped advances right from the office.

[Carl Lederer]

Well, why don't you go ahead and eat and meet me there in an hour or so?

[Pam North]

All right.

[Jerry North]

I hope we'll get this straightened out.

[Carl Lederer]

So do I. Persecution complex can be pretty serious. What if we can just make Harold see. Well, no use speculating. I got to get on it. Let's see. Winter's number. Oh, yes.

[Stephen Winters]

Oh, it's you, Carl.

[Carl Lederer]

Yes, Harold. I want to talk to you.

[Harold Vance]

I thought I told you to stay away from here.

[Carl Lederer]

I want to show you how silly you're being.

[Harold Vance]

We've been all through that.

[Carl Lederer]

Not quite. Where's Louise?

[Harold Vance]

In her room. She doesn't feel well.

[Carl Lederer]

May I see her?

[Harold Vance]

I thought that's why you came.

[Carl Lederer]

It's not the way you think. I want to get you and her and Winters in the north.

[Harold Vance]

What?

[Carl Lederer]

Is Louise up to it?

[Pam North]

No.

[Harold Vance]

Neither am I. I don't know what I have to do to convince you that I'm not going to listen to anything more you have to say.

[Carl Lederer]

I'm afraid there's nothing you can do. I'm going to talk to you.

[Harold Vance]

There's one thing.

[Carl Lederer]

What's that?

[Pam North]

This.

[Carl Lederer]

Harold, are you out of your mind?

[Harold Vance]

I'm fed up, that's all. Fed up. Everything happening at once, and you won't lay off. Well, here's where I.

[Mrs. Vance]

What's going on in here? Stop it. Stop it, both of you. Please stop it.

[Stephen Winters]

Stop it. Louise.

[Harold Vance]

Stop it.

[Mrs. Vance]

Carl, are you all right?

[Harold Vance]

Is he all right? So that's what concerns you, Louise.

[Pam North]

Carl.

[Mrs. Vance]

Oh, no, no, Harold. It's just that you're stronger.

[Harold Vance]

You told me to try to make love to you, but you didn't want it.

[Mrs. Vance]

Of course I didn't.

[Harold Vance]

I wonder. Looks like there's nobody I can trust anymore.

[Carl Lederer]

Harold, can't you see?

[Harold Vance]

I think maybe I can't see. At last. Now, go on, get out of here.

[Carl Lederer]

But, Harold, I'm out.

[Harold Vance]

And then I'm going to have a talk with Lou.

[Jerry North]

You know, Jerry, sometimes friends aren't the best judges.

[Pam North]

Aren't the best judges of what, darling?

[Jerry North]

Friends. Of course. After all, Jerry, what else could friends be of?

[Pam North]

I don't know. You have me a little confused. So friends aren't the best judges of friends? Oh, here we are, dear. Ninth floor.

[Jerry North]

Like Mr. Lederer, for instance. He can't believe that Mr. Vance would try to poison Mrs. Vance because he likes Mrs. Vance. Mr. Vance oh, whereas I can very well believe it.

[Pam North]

Because you don't like Mr. Vance.

[Jerry North]

Well, he accused you. I don't like that.

[Pam North]

Which doesn't make him a wife.

[Jerry North]

Jerry.

[Pam North]

I heard it.

[Jerry North]

Somebody's coming out of the Vance's apartment.

[Pam North]

Mrs. Vance. Mrs. Vance, help me.

[Mrs. Vance]

He tried to kill me too. Don't let him.

[Pam North]

What?

[Jerry North]

She's pointing back to the apartment. Jerry. You better go and see what's wrong. I'll try to.

[Mrs. Vance]

Quiet.

[Pam North]

Oh, hello. Who are you?

[Stephen Winters]

Stephen Winters. And you must be Mr. North.

[Pam North]

Yes.

[Stephen Winters]

Letter or phone asked me to come here. Mr. North said you'd be here too.

[Pam North]

Is Lederer here?

[Stephen Winters]

I haven't seen him. I just got here. The door was open, so I walked in. And then I saw that.

[Pam North]

What? Good Lord. Expanse Shits.

[Stephen Winters]

And he's dead.

[Pam North]

Yes, Bill, that's right. Apart from 9G. Yeah. We'll wait so long. The police will be right over, Mr. Winters.

[Stephen Winters]

Good.

[Harold Vance]

Hey, Pam.

[Pam North]

Where's Mrs. Vance? I thought you were going to stay with her.

[Jerry North]

She broke away, Jerry, so I came in.

[Pam North]

Broke away?

[Jerry North]

Yes, she seemed terrified. She said that Mr. Withers killed her husband and he'd kill her too.

[Stephen Winters]

I. She must be crazy.

[Pam North]

Just what did happen with us?

[Stephen Winters]

I don't know. I told you. The door was open, so I walked in and found Vance lying there.

[Pam North]

Did you touch anything?

[Stephen Winters]

I didn't have time. Just took a quick look at him. And when I heard a sound, turned and there was Mrs. Vance staring at me. And when I turned, she screamed and ran out. You know the rest.

[Pam North]

Yeah. Where'd she go, Pam?

[Jerry North]

She ran to the elevator. Before I realized what was happening, the door was closing. And there's only one elevator, so I couldn't catch her.

[Pam North]

Oh, we better try to find her.

[Stephen Winters]

Well, you're not taking her fantastic story that I killed Vance seriously, are you?

[Pam North]

Not necessarily. But I'd like to talk to her as soon as possible. And I know the police will want to, so Pam and I'll go see if we can find her. You wait here, Winters.

[Stephen Winters]

All right. But you can't believe. Now, look, she must have come into the room and saw her husband lying dead and me standing over him. So naturally she assumed that I'd killed him.

[Pam North]

But that doesn't mean I know windows. It doesn't mean you actually did kill him. So stop worrying, will you? All right, Pam, let's go.

[Jerry North]

You see her, Jerry?

[Pam North]

No.

[Jerry North]

Maybe she just went for a policeman.

[Pam North]

Well, in that case, you should be coming back with him pretty soon. Hey, wait a minute. There she is.

[Jerry North]

Where?

[Pam North]

Down at the corner. She just signaled for a taxi, but it didn't stop.

[Jerry North]

Oh, yes.

[Pam North]

I hope she's calmed down a little so she'll answer questions.

[Jerry North]

She seemed pretty positive that Mr. Winters is the murderer.

[Pam North]

Well, uh. Oh, she sees us, Jerry.

[Jerry North]

She's running across the street.

[Pam North]

Yeah. Mrs. Vance, wait.

[Jerry North]

She won't stop. She must think that we're going to take her to Mr. Winters.

[Pam North]

She goes into an alley.

[Carl Lederer]

I'll try to catch her.

[Pam North]

Mrs. Vance. Mrs. Vance, wait. I just want to talk to you.

[Mrs. Vance]

Don't come near me.

[Pam North]

I'm not going to hurt you.

[Mrs. Vance]

No, no, you. You stay away.

[Pam North]

All right. I don't want to frighten you, but why don't you come to me? I won't hurt you. No, you can't get away. The alley's a dead end. All I want to do is.

[Mrs. Vance]

Can't you leave me alone?

[Pam North]

I want to talk to you. So I won't take you back to Winters, if that's what you're afraid of. Not until the police get here.

[Mrs. Vance]

You promise?

[Pam North]

I promise.

[Mrs. Vance]

Well, all right. But you can see why I'm so afraid. I saw him kill Harold.

[Pam North]

Did you see the actual killing?

[Mrs. Vance]

Yes. Yes.

[Pam North]

You're sure?

[Mrs. Vance]

Yes. Yes, I'm sure.

[Pam North]

Didn't you just see your husband on the floor and Winters standing over him? And so you just assumed from that?

[Mrs. Vance]

No, no, I didn't just assume. I saw. I tell you, I saw. Really?

[Pam North]

Just exactly what did you see?

[Mrs. Vance]

I saw Mr. Winters arguing with Harold. I saw him grab a paper knife from the desk and stab Harold with it. I saw Harold fall.

[Pam North]

Winters did that with you looking off.

[Jerry North]

I know.

[Mrs. Vance]

He didn't know I was there. I'd been out. I just came in. He didn't see me until I screamed.

[Pam North]

I see. Well, you don't have to worry about Winters. When the police come, just tell them what happened and they'll arrest him.

[Mrs. Vance]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess you're right.

[Pam North]

Now, come on, we'll go out to the store.

[Mrs. Vance]

No, no. No.

[Jerry North]

No. Stop.

[Harold Vance]

What's the matter?

[Jerry North]

Now, you let go of me.

[Pam North]

I only took your arm.

[Mrs. Vance]

Oh, stop.

[Pam North]

Mrs. Vance, what on earth is wrong?

[Jerry North]

Jerry, what's happening?

[Mrs. Vance]

I don't know.

[Pam North]

Pam. Oh, hello, Mr. Letterer.

[Mrs. Vance]

Hello, North. Louise.

[Carl Lederer]

Louise, what's wrong?

[Mrs. Vance]

Oh, Carl. Carl. He drove just awful car.

[Jerry North]

What's the matter with the chair?

[Pam North]

I wish I knew. Where did Mr. Lederer come from?

[Jerry North]

Well, he drove up just after you ran in here. I was talking to him. That's why I didn't follow right away.

[Carl Lederer]

Louise, stop crying. Tell me what's the matter.

[Mrs. Vance]

Mr. North tried to. Tried to kill me.

[Pam North]

I hardly touched you, Mrs. Vance.

[Mrs. Vance]

You tried to kill me. Carl, look. Look at my arm. There must be bruises on it where he grabbed me.

[Carl Lederer]

I don't see anything.

[Mrs. Vance]

Don't believe me, do you?

[Carl Lederer]

I know you like to imagine things, Louise.

[Mrs. Vance]

Why? You're on his side. I should have known. I know that, Jerry. Well, you're all on his side. You're all against me. Everybody. Everybody's against. Against me. Mrs. North, you're a woman. Won't you please help me? What do you want? Well, I. I've got to get to the street. They've got me cornered in here. You don't know. You don't know. They want to kill me. I. I know they do you. I've got to get out of here. I've got to get away.

[Carl Lederer]

Louise, where do you put the door?

[Mrs. Vance]

Stop.

[Carl Lederer]

I got to get off. I have to. Come to your senses.

[Pam North]

Maybe you better let her go.

[Carl Lederer]

She's out. Let me go. And let her run the streets like this? Now, Louise, stop it.

[Jerry North]

What did you do to her?

[Pam North]

Nothing.

[Carl Lederer]

She fainted. Come on, Mr. North, help me carry her back to the apartment.

[Stephen Winters]

Oh, what happened to her?

[Carl Lederer]

Fade it. Come on, off over to the sofa.

[Pam North]

Right. Police didn't get here yet. Winners.

[Stephen Winters]

No, not yet.

[Carl Lederer]

There we are. Let her.

[Pam North]

She'll be all right there. But you better call the doctor. Yeah.

[Carl Lederer]

I knew she was unbalanced, but I had no idea it would go this far.

[Pam North]

At least a few things begin to make sense at last. When you mentioned persecution complex, you were talking about Mrs. Vance, not her husband.

[Carl Lederer]

That's right. She told him I was trying to make love to her. That you had stolen her story and that Winters had cheated him in business.

[Stephen Winters]

And he was so in love with her that he believed her.

[Carl Lederer]

That's it. Winters. She drove him frantic till he hardly knew what he was doing. I tried to make him see the truth, but he didn't want to.

[Jerry North]

She was even suspicious of him. She accused him of spying and of trying to poison her.

[Carl Lederer]

I know. That's why I wanted to talk to him tonight. Thought maybe with that I could open his eyes. But he wouldn't listen. Started to fight. Ordered me out of the house again. I was coming back for one more try when I met you. Well, I'd better get that doctor.

[Stephen Winters]

What happened outside, Mr. North?

[Pam North]

She went completely berserk. Claimed you killed her husband and tried to kill her. Then she claimed I tried to kill her. Then everyone was Trying to kill her.

[Stephen Winters]

Poor Louise.

[Jerry North]

Yes, pretty awful. Still, it is not too surprising.

[Pam North]

What do you mean not too surprising, Pam?

[Jerry North]

That some of it's true.

[Pam North]

Some of what's true, darling?

[Jerry North]

What she said, of course.

[Pam North]

Oh, is it?

[Jerry North]

Is it what, Jerry?

[Pam North]

I don't know. What are we talking about all of a sudden?

[Jerry North]

About Mrs. Vance and that she made so many accusations it's not too surprising that some of them turned out to be true. Law of averages.

[Pam North]

Oh.

[Stephen Winters]

Just what part of her accusations do you think were true, Mrs. Moore?

[Jerry North]

The part where she accused you of the murder, Mr. Winters.

[Stephen Winters]

What? Oh, you're joking, of course.

[Jerry North]

No, I'm not. And since she was right about that, she was probably also right when she said that you were misusing her husband's money. That's probably why you killed him, because he demanded an accounting.

[Stephen Winters]

You're as crazy as she is.

[Jerry North]

Oh, no, Mr. Winters. You told us that the door was open when you arrived and that you just walked in, looked at the body and before you could do a thing, Mrs. Vance screamed and ran out.

[Stephen Winters]

That's right.

[Jerry North]

But that whole thing wouldn't take 30 seconds from the time you got out of the elevator.

[Stephen Winters]

Well, what of it?

[Jerry North]

Jerry and I had already gotten off the elevator when Mrs. Vance screamed. And there's only one elevator in the building, so it had to go all the way down. Stop, doors open and close and bring us all the way up. And this is the ninth floor.

[Pam North]

She's right, Mr. Winters. You were up here a lot longer than you said you were. And there's no use looking for a way out of here now. The only way is the front door. And it sounds like the police are there right now.

[Jerry North]

I just finished reading your new book.

[Pam North]

Oh, like it, darling?

[Jerry North]

Oh, yes, very much. Just one thing about it, though.

[Pam North]

Oh, what's that?

[Jerry North]

I can't help thinking I read something very much like it before.

[Pam North]

Pam, don't you start that.

[Jerry North]

Good night, Jerry.

[Carl Lederer]

This is the United States Armed Forces Radio Service.

[Adam Graham]

Welcome back. I really enjoyed this one. I like the way that Pam and Jerry became involved through Jerry's work as a publisher. And in a really believable way. Because this is something that publishers have to deal with in terms of people thinking an idea was ripped off from their manuscript. And as people become more litigious, it's something they have to be more careful about. So a modern Jerry north would probably just drop the whole thing in the lap of the attorneys. The revelation that Mrs. Vance had a persecution complex and her husband was acting on it made for a Good premise. And of course it really left it open as to who committed the murder. And I like how Pam revealed that she knew it was the financial advisor who did it. And the key clue may have been one of the strongest ones we've heard, as while it relied on something the murderer said, there was a key observable and mathematical fact that proved he was lying. All right, well, listener comments and feedback now. And we start on YouTube. And regarding the episode Dead Giveaway, Mechanic6682 writes, Pam was pretty much the only one in this story who came off looking good. The brother was crazy, even if he hadn't been when he was originally put in the asylum. The husband was greedy and unfaithful. The mistress was greedy and a homewrecker and was ready to dump Philip as soon as he didn't have his wife's money. Jerry and Bill didn't believe Pam when they had no reason to doubt her and every reason to believe her her even. So, it was an enjoyable episode. Well, thanks so much. I appreciate the comments and I think that that is a fair critique. There is far too much doubting Pam after all of the cases that she has solved. And in these episodes, while Jerry does play a role, I think it's safe to say she ends up solving 90% of the cases. Moving on, we had some comments regarding our 4650th special crank letter. Mechanic 6682 writes, well, I definitely didn't expect that. I actually suspected the lieutenant, which would have been better than a schizophrenic. Dr. Kamal writes, I figured out the dual personality about halfway through. And Betsy says, that was pretty good. Thanks. And then we also had a comment on the hot copy episode Death Studies the Angles. And this comes from mechanic 6682. I'm used to every episode of Old Time Radio Detectives ending in either a confession or death by shootout, but I'm pretty sure this is the first time the guy confessed and then died by gunshot. Well, I think we have encountered that a time or two before now. Carlotta actually had a really helpful comment on Facebook. When I was researching the actresses who played Sprightly Poole, I found out the actress playing her was Virginia Payne. And the newspaper article I found that in spelled Payne P A I N E. However, Carlotta said that if I meant Virginia Payne P A Y N E that there was some information to share. And I went back and did some more research after reading Carlotta's comment on Facebook and found that the newspaper I'D read had actually misspelled Ms. Payne's name. To be fair to that paper, there was actually a paper in another state that spelled the name P E I N E. But it was Virginia Payne, P A Y N E. And Carlotta writes that she played the famous soap opera character Ma Perkins. She was at Houston's Alley Theater in the early 70s. Only very much later did this then teenage playgoer learn of her radio fame. I hadn't been aware of classic radio growing up. She played older female roles in numerous plays there. Well, thank you so much for responding, Carlotta. I've actually gone back and edited the show notes for those episodes, which, because I've got to do it on the website and there were also three different archive feeds, was a bit of a pain. Okay, sorry for the horrible pun, but worth it to set the record straight. Now. Virginia Payne was responsible for creating one of the most beloved daytime soap characters, Ma Perkins. She began playing the matriarchal character when she was just 25 years old in 1933 and played her all the way until the end of soap operas on Radio in 1960. We actually played the Ma Perkins segment on an amazing World of Radio special we did a couple years back when we played Christmas in America 1946, when you had four big soap operas come together and share an hour with a Christmas special. They weren't crossing over or anything, but it was told as an hour program. The series is one that many collectors are really interested in. I've never gotten into soap operas much myself, and there are actually 240 plus episodes in circulation, which sounds great until you realize that there were more than 7,000 episodes of Ma Perkins broadcast. There are very few pre1948 episodes in circulation. But there is a period from late July 1949 to late March 1951, a period of 20 months where while not every episode is in circulation, most are. And then from March 29, 1951, the next 2,463 episodes are missing until the last two episodes from November 24th and 25th, 1960. So again, a lot of lost episodes of Ma Perkins. Now it might be tempting to wonder why Payne would take on the role of Spratley Poole, given the fact that she had at this point been on Ma Perkins, which was very popular for 11 years. And that goes back to something that I've talked about in the past where radio was not really a full time job starring in a radio program. Certainly it was good work, and for her work she received good compensation but just from a practical standpoint, it didn't take up that much of her week. She also had worked in other soap operas at the time, so taking on a primetime gig was far from unheard of. Bob Bailey also worked in daytime radio in Chicago, would do prime time work. But thank you so much. I appreciate the comment, Carlotta, and always love to have my understanding clarified and learn something I didn't know before. Well, now it's time to thank our Patreon supporter of the day and I want to go ahead and thank Rachel. Rachel's been one of our patreon supporters since June 2022, currently supporting the podcast at the Psalmist level of $4 or more per month. Thanks so much for your support, Rachel, and that will actually do it for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your favorite podcast software and be sure to rate and review the podcast wherever you download it from. We'll be back next Thursday with another episode of Mr. And Mrs. North, but join us back here tomorrow for yours truly, Johnny Doll. Or where?

[Lieutenant]

Hey, we've got work to do here. Well, I. After all. Now, look, Bart, this man whoops it.

[Pam North]

His reputation in the back.

[Lieutenant]

I know exactly what you're going to say. I might have thought the same thing, Johnny, if I hadn't seen exactly what happened. Tell me, what did happen?

[Jerry North]

Lieutenant, you look very tired.

[Lieutenant]

Yes, Mr. Branson, I am. After all, having been up all night.

[Harold Vance]

On this thing, suppose I bring Mr.

[Pam North]

Dollar up to date?

[Lieutenant]

Well, sure.

[Pam North]

Oh, no, you don't.

[Lieutenant]

I want to find out now. Not next week, John.

[Pam North]

Go ahead, Bart.

[Lieutenant]

Well, Whipsitt and his secretary, Perry Winkle. Isn't that a name? Yeah, sure is. Where is she, by the way? Jefferson Hospital. Anyhow, they were here very late last night working on the books. Came a knock on the door. Whips had opened it. This man barged in with a gun and demanded the Beaufort collection.

[Harold Vance]

And?

[Lieutenant]

Well, Whips had argued with him, finally gave in when the guy threatened to shoot him. But Ms. Winkle made a dash for the door. The intruder let her have it, held the gun on Whipsit, tore out the telephone line, then locked him in and disappeared. And that's it. Wait a minute. How could he lock Whipsit in his own.

[Adam Graham]

I hope you'll be with us then. In the meantime, send your comments to box Thirteenreatetectives.net Follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives and check us out on Instagram if instagram. Com Great. Detectives from Boise, Idaho, this is your host, Adam Graham, signing off.