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You Might Also Like: Math & Magic: Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing with Bob Pittman
Introducing Tarang Amin: “Embrace what you think is risky.” from Math & Magic: Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing with Bob Pittman. Follow the show: Math & Magic: Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing with Bob Pittman When he was 14, Tarang Amin’s family sold their home and bought a motel. They fixed it up and expanded their business, buying one motel after another. Since those days, Tarang’s gotten an MBA, built an impressive resume at Procter & Gamble, Clorox, and Schiff Nutrition, and currently serves as the Chairman of the Board and CEO of e.l.f. Beauty. Tarang still credits his days at the family motels for his achievements in the business world. Tarang shares stories about the incredible growth he’s built for brands across the board, even after hitting walls or stepping into unexpected roles. Underlying his success are core values and strategies like incentivizing employees with ownership opportunities, constantly learning from mistakes, and creat...
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- [00:00]
T-Mobile Representative
Breaking News T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device, credit service support in 90 days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption Required card has no cash access and expires in six months.
- [00:30]
Oracle Representative
AI is rewriting the business playbook with productivity boosts and faster decision making coming to every industry. If you're not thinking about AI, you can bet your competition is. This is not where you want to drop the ball, but AI requires a lot of compute power and with most cloud platforms, the cost for your AI workloads can spiral. That is, unless you're running on OCI Oracle Cloud Infrastructure this was the cloud built for AI, a blazing, fast, enterprise grade platform for your infrastructure, database, apps and all your AI workloads. OCI costs 50% less than other major hyperscalers for compute, 70% less for storage and 80% less for networking. Thousands of businesses have already scored with oci, including Vodafone, Thomson Reuters and Suno AI. Now the ball's in your court.
- [01:15]
Bob Pittman
Right now, Oracle can cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to OCI. Minimum financial commitment and other terms apply. Offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this Special offer@oracle.com strategic that's oracle.com strategic My.
- [01:30]
Tarang Amin
Dad works in B2B marketing, but I never really knew what that meant. Then one day my dad came by my school for Career day and told everyone in my class he was a big Roaz man. Then he just kept saying things like the bigger the Roaz the better. Over and over. My friends still laugh at me to this day. I think it means calculating a return on ad spend. One thing's for sure, I'll be known as the Roazman's kid for the rest of my days. Why couldn't you just be a fireman or a lawyer? Why? You ruined my life. Dad.
- [02:05]
T-Mobile Representative
Not everyone gets B2B, but LinkedIn has the people who do. And with ads on LinkedIn you'll be able to reach people based on job title, industry, likelihood to buy, and more. Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com customer to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com customer. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn the place to be, to be.
- [02:30]
Bob Pittman
Introducing Instagram Teen accounts.
- [02:32]
Instagram Representative
A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they've got the right gear for writing.
- [02:37]
Bob Pittman
Knee pads, shack and helmet.
- [02:39]
Tarang Amin
Done. See you, dad. New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your.
- [02:44]
Instagram Representative
Teen and the content they can see.
- [02:47]
iHeartRadio Host
You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio.
- [02:53]
Instagram Representative
I'm constantly making mistakes. You're constantly learning, learning on these small failures so it avoids the big, big, big miss. And so for me, the way I approach risk is encourage an organization to embrace innovation, to embrace change, constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail. Actually celebrate those failures, actually talk about those things of what we learned and what we're going to go do about it.
- [03:26]
Bob Pittman
Hi, I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and Magic. Stories from the frontiers of marketing. On this episode, we're going deep with someone who has the Midas touch. He's transformed brands one after the other and company after company. Moving from marketer to CEO. He's created enormous shareholder returns. And we're going to dig into the hows today with Tarang Amin, Chairman of the board and CEO at Elf Beauty. Tarang was born in Kenya, moved to the US As a child. Growing up, he helped his dad run the family owned motel in Alexandria, Virginia and went on to Duke University for undergrad and his mba. Like many great execs, his training ground was PNG and he spent time running brands for P and G and others before rising to his first CEO job in 2011. He's a purpose driven, passionate leader who has been driving performance for over 30 years. He's committed to diversity and also to disruption and credits both for his remarkable success and to put that in perspective, he has grown the Elf Beauty business 5X since arriving as CEO. Tarang, welcome.
- [04:32]
Instagram Representative
Well, thank you for having me.
- [04:34]
Bob Pittman
I want to dig into your story and it's fascinating story. But first I want to do you in 60 seconds. You ready?
- [04:40]
Instagram Representative
Sounds great.
- [04:42]
Bob Pittman
Do you prefer cats or dogs?
- [04:44]
Instagram Representative
Dogs.
- [04:45]
Bob Pittman
Early riser or night owl?
- [04:47]
Instagram Representative
Early riser.
- [04:48]
Bob Pittman
West coast or east coast?
- [04:49]
Instagram Representative
West coast.
- [04:50]
Bob Pittman
City or country?
- [04:52]
Instagram Representative
City.
- [04:53]
Bob Pittman
Beach or mountains?
- [04:54]
Instagram Representative
Beach.
- [04:55]
Bob Pittman
Coffee or tea?
- [04:56]
Instagram Representative
Tea.
- [04:57]
Bob Pittman
Books or movies?
- [04:59]
Instagram Representative
Movies.
- [04:59]
Bob Pittman
Cook or eat? Out.
- [05:01]
Instagram Representative
Cook.
- [05:02]
Bob Pittman
Call or text?
- [05:04]
Instagram Representative
Call.
- [05:05]
Bob Pittman
Work life balance or work life integration?
- [05:08]
Instagram Representative
Integration.
- [05:09]
Bob Pittman
Okay, it's about to get harder. All time. Favorite music artist, YouTube. Favorite TV show?
- [05:16]
Instagram Representative
Seinfeld.
- [05:17]
Bob Pittman
Smartest person you know.
- [05:18]
Instagram Representative
Fred Cohen.
- [05:20]
Bob Pittman
Childhood hero.
- [05:21]
Instagram Representative
Mahatma Gandhi.
- [05:23]
Bob Pittman
Favorite sport to watch.
- [05:25]
Instagram Representative
Basketball. Favorite movie, Shawshank Redemption.
- [05:29]
Bob Pittman
Most important piece of advice you ever got.
- [05:32]
Instagram Representative
Lean in. Favorite city, San Francisco.
- [05:36]
Bob Pittman
Favorite place to visit?
- [05:37]
Instagram Representative
Africa.
- [05:38]
Bob Pittman
And the final one, secret talent Gardening. Okay, great. Let's jump in. Now, I know this is going to be a surprise, but you're actually not the first guest who grew up in their family motel. Shazi Vishram, the founder of Happy Baby, the organic baby food company, grew up in the family motel in Alabama. Rooms 121 and 123. And like you, she said it taught her so much about life and business. So I am fascinated by this story. So can you paint the picture of that experience for you? Growing up in a motel, working all the time with your family?
- [06:16]
Instagram Representative
That was a pretty formative experience for me. So when I was 14, we sold our house, took every penny we had, and we bought our first motel on Route 1 in Alexandria, Virginia. We moved right into the manager's apartment, and our business model as a family was we'd find these distressed properties, we'd fix them up, we're good operators, and we kept building from there. You did everything. If the maids didn't show up, you made the rooms you rented, the rooms you renovated. It was such an important experience for me. Probably the most important is how you treat people. Because there are smaller motels or more on the budget side, we didn't have like high wages or other things. So it really came down to how did you motivate people who were oftentimes hourly and how did you incent kind of our managers over time in terms of, you know, we had a model that if they hit certain criteria, we'd help finance their own property. So it was a great leg up in a way for them to really change their family's lives as well. I had a pretty classical career after that in large consumer goods, but I tell people everything I know about cash flow, economic profit. How you treat people really came from building our motel business up from with my dad, and I did that from 14 to about my mid-20s. Many, many years later, I still pull from those experiences. Oh, my gosh. We could probably go on the entire podcast for everything I heard in the motels.
- [07:34]
Bob Pittman
In the 1990s, I was on the board of a company called HFS, which had a number of brands for motels, and I was always struck with the overrepresentation in the ownership by immigrant families. Why is that?
- [07:47]
Instagram Representative
You know, as you mentioned in your opening, we were immigrants from East Africa. And there were a number of immigrants, particularly when IDI Amin came to power in Uganda and kicked all the Indians out. Kenya, other countries that immigrated to the US And a lot of times they kind of left behind whatever their original profession was or their business people. The motels were actually a really good model because with a limited amount of capital, you could get a loan, you could then actually not only live there, but earn a living and be able to go from there. So we're in India, our ethnicity is Gujaratis. And a lot of Gujaratis got into the motel business. I think it's still a huge proportion of the motels in the US Are owned by Gujaratis. And like any immigrant family, immigrant community, when someone gets into it, others learn that there's something there. And so I'm not unique in having that experience. There are a number of Gujaratis in the US that also had their start in these motels.
- [08:45]
Bob Pittman
Did you ever think about staying in the business?
- [08:48]
Instagram Representative
You know, I didn't, and my parents didn't want me to either. There was a real focus, particularly in the Gujarati community, on education. And so my parents were very set and I was very set on going to university, going to grad school, figuring out what I really wanted to do. And so I would say it never was. And aspiration, as much as I learned from it, I was definitely interested in wanting to explore the world and do different things.
- [09:15]
Bob Pittman
You were obviously a good student. You went off to Duke for undergrad and grad school too. And you have an interesting story. When you applied to the Graduate School of Business when you were still an undergrad, and they told you you had no business experience, how did you use that motel experience to overcome that objection?
- [09:32]
Instagram Representative
The Dean of Admissions, since I was an undergrad and done a lot of leadership things at Duke, you know, he told me, like, no, we don't accept people straight out of undergrad. You need to go work. I basically, I think in about 20 minutes described what my work experience was in the motels. And it must have been persuasive enough for him to let me in.
- [09:51]
Bob Pittman
Great story. A stunning number of marketing focused CEOs got their start at P and G. Actually, a surprising number of people that don't know math and magic got their start at P and G. Why is that such a fertile ground?
- [10:04]
Instagram Representative
I actually went to P and G almost by accident. I did my undergraduate major in International Policy. I thought I was going to go do my MBA to go work at the World bank. And then my name showed up on some Closed lists for Procter and Gamble. To be honest with you, I didn't even know what it was. But what intrigued me about it was this notion that in your mid-20s, you could go run a brand. And that really appealed to me of the ability to be able to really get into every aspect of the business, the whole aspect of consumers, and understanding them, being able to translate insights into action. And so I thought it was a really great experience for getting a great overview of almost every functional area, moving a business forward, what the brand stood for. And so I really loved my time at P and G. It definitely was a great training ground, as many others have experienced.
- [10:55]
Bob Pittman
One of your first big successes, I guess, was a P and G, when you were part of the team that relaunched Pantene, taking it from a. I think the numbers are right, a $50 million hair care brand to a $2 billion global market leader. How did that happen?
- [11:10]
Instagram Representative
That was a really formative experience because I spent eight years on Pantene. It was my beauty. I did almost every possible role in that business. Pantene had existed for 50 years. It was almost on its last legs. P and G had gotten it through the Richardson Vicks acquisition in the mid-80s, and by the time I got on in 1991, it still only had $50 million of sales. And there was one failed relaunch after another. But the core of the brand was this intersection between health and beauty. And I remember we had a line, we came up of hair so healthy it shines. And like, I think many great businesses, it was the timing of a lot of things coming together at the same time. These incredible flowing hair shots. We put our two in one technology, put a conditioner on. It did a lot of fundamentals, and it just took off. In the early 90s, long, straight hair was in fashion. But the best part of the Pantene story, I tell people all the time, is we probably hit a wall at least four times on that business, where you grow really fast and then kind of plateau out. And grow really fast and plateau out is that ability of discovering what was aspirational yet achievable for consumers and how we continue to pivot that brand. But it was a great experience, including helping take it global.
- [12:29]
Bob Pittman
You know, it's an interesting point. You mean about hitting sort of the plateau. And I think all of us have built products. You know, you go grow, grow, grow, and then it slows down. How did you hit those? It's interesting to me because very few people get over those. That sort of is now the new high. Can you give me an example of a couple and just tell us how you got over it?
- [12:49]
Instagram Representative
I mean, heck, I'll even give you an example. In my current role at Elf Beauty, very fast growing brand in 2018, we hit a wall and we couldn't figure out at first we're like, is that our value equation is something wrong with the product? And what we realized is a bunch of mega influencer brands came into our space. The Kylie Jenner is the Fenty's, the Huda Beauties. And at first I thought our value proposition would insulate us, but we found that no, they were taking all the attention from consumers and we weren't spending enough on the brand. So I think the most important thing is to step back and really get into where did we go wrong. And it starts first and foremost with myself. I remember getting in front of our leadership team and saying these are my beliefs. And let me tell you where we went wrong on each of these areas. We used to brag that our value was so great we didn't have to spend money on marketing. And I was dead wrong on that. We were getting lost in all the noise. We'd gone into retail stores, yet many of those retail stores were in malls that would never see a better day. And then we basically got distracted. And so I think the first thing was really, I always tell people we can face any reality. You just got to know what the reality is. So I think the first step is really getting a better understanding of what are the drivers or what's not working and then making bold moves. I remember it was painful. But back in 2019, on the same day we shut down all of our retail stores, we sent I, we had 26 stores, 26 liters to every store to let people know what was going on and why. We paid more than market for severance. But it was still painful letting 200 associates go. But then we took the $16 million we're spending on those stores and we doubled down on our digital business and we saw almost immediate results. So I would say two things. One, understand what the reality is and then make sure you're taking decisive action and not just wishing that things will get better.
- [14:45]
Bob Pittman
Do you think it's hard? Because I see this in business and I'm seeing it watching others certainly seen it with myself. Hard for people to sort of own up to. It's not working. We've got a problem.
- [14:57]
Instagram Representative
Yeah, I think there's a natural human tendency to wish for that. It's going to get better. I Feel like that's an important role for a leader because others see it. People in your organization will know when something's not working, and they want leaders who own up to it that basically say, hey, guys, this isn't great. Let me tell you where I believe I went wrong. Let me tell you what I'm doing about it. And it then role models others to be able to step up and say, okay, there's nothing wrong with saying, where have we failed? And what do we have to do about it? And I think it brings the team together.
- [15:29]
Bob Pittman
I'm going to go back a little bit. You went on to some big successes at Clorox after P and G, and you got your first CEO shot. How did you make the job to CEO? You were obviously doing great with the brands, great marketer, et cetera. But that's a big jump to CEO.
- [15:46]
Instagram Representative
I think one of the things that really helped me throughout my career is I started in marketing and then I went over to more of a general manager role. Then I went back deeper into marketing. Then before my first CEO role, I was a general manager with three of the divisions at Clorox. So I had a good combination of going deep in a particular area and then going broad and learning the other functional areas. And so I felt by the time I was GM of Clorox businesses, Kingsford Charcoal, Hidden Valley Ranch Dressings, Fresh Step and Litter, they were pretty autonomous. They had their own supply chain, they had own way of kind of distribution. And so I felt like it was a good training ground for me to really make sure I was adept at the different functional areas, but more importantly, continue to hone my leadership skills. And so when my first CEO opportunity came up, it was a small company called Shift Nutrition. It was a publicly traded company, private equity backed. I felt well prepared. I knew the areas that I could go. And particularly in terms of, like, how we build the team. My professional background is I'm absolutely passionate about building brands. The best way I know how you build brands is you lead the innovation, the category. But what I love doing the most is assembling these high performance teams. I always brag that in 34 years of being in the consumer space, I've never had a business we haven't grown multiples of the category. And I always attributed that back to the team and the culture that we create. And so that gave me a lot of confidence to jump in and take my first CEO role.
- [17:17]
Bob Pittman
I'll brag on you for a second here. You grew that enterprise value from 190 million to 1.5 billion in just a couple of years. So obviously you got a big success there, but you moved into, as you said, a public company. You know, part of the CEO job is running the business. The other part's dealing with shareholders. I doubt in your background you've had a lot of training on dealing with the investors. How did you learn that side of the business?
- [17:41]
Instagram Representative
Well, it definitely was a pretty steep learning curve. I remember my first earnings call at Shift Nutrition. I said something. I had gotten a stat from one of our team members and it was wrong. And I had to issue, I think, an 8K on what I said wrong. But there's no hesitancy in terms of being transparent of like, yeah, no, that was the wrong numbers. I just told you, here's what it is. So I would say, you know, from that rough start, the thing that's helped me the most is I love being a CEO of a public company. A lot of people don't, but I love it because there's 100% transparency. The internal story and the external story have to be the same one. And I think that interaction with investors and others makes you sharper in terms of what are people getting, what are people not getting, what is that narrative? I'd say the second thing that's been most important is some people spend too much time on the public company thing and managing investor relations. I have always had the discipline of I will never let a quarter get in the way of our long term focus and strategy and then also constrain the time where, you know, it can take a life of its own. I give investor relations two days, a quarter, one day in prepping for what the earnings release and the narrative and talking with investors and then maybe a second day to do a conference or some investor relations. I feel some of my peers as CEOs spend an inordinate amount of time on that part of the business. And I think if you're spending too much time on that part, it's getting in the way of where you really need to focus on, which is the team and your strategy.
- [19:23]
Bob Pittman
More on math and magic right after this quick break.
- [19:29]
T-Mobile Representative
Introducing Instagram teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow. Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
- [19:37]
Instagram Representative
All right, sweetie pie, buckle up.
- [19:39]
Nissan Representative
Good job.
- [19:40]
T-Mobile Representative
Or ring the bell.
- [19:41]
Instagram Representative
Bell.
- [19:41]
T-Mobile Representative
On their bike.
- [19:42]
Nissan Representative
Okay, kid, give it a try.
- [19:44]
Instagram Representative
Nice.
- [19:45]
T-Mobile Representative
Or remember their elbow pads.
- [19:47]
Instagram Representative
Knees too. Okay. Yep, There you go.
- [19:51]
T-Mobile Representative
New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your teen and the content they can see.
- [19:58]
iHeartRadio Host
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- [20:58]
Tarang Amin
My dad works in B2B marketing, but I never really knew what that meant. Then one day my dad came by my school for career day and told everyone in my class he was a big roaz man.
- [21:09]
Instagram Representative
Then.
- [21:10]
Tarang Amin
He just kept saying things like the bigger the roas, the better, over and over. My friends still laugh at me to this day. I think it means calculating a return on ad spent. One thing's for sure. I'll be known as the Roazman's kid for the rest of my days. Why couldn't you just be a fireman or a lawyer? Why? You ruined my life, dad.
- [21:33]
T-Mobile Representative
Not everyone gets B2B. But LinkedIn has the people who do. And with ads on LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people based on job title, industry likelihood to buy and more. Start converting your B2B audience into high quality leads today. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com customer to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com customer terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn. The place to be. To be.
- [21:59]
Nissan Representative
You know, when the world gets a little crazy and everything is moving too fast, don't you just wish you could get away from all of it for a while? Well, that's exactly what the all new 2025 Nissan Murano can do for you. And to be clear, you don't even have to go anywhere. The Murano is the getaway. It was designed from the ground up to be a refuge from the daily grind. I mean, it has a Bose premium sound system which can play your favorite, most relaxing music. And there's nothing like a world class audio system to just transport you to a better headspace. Then there's the Murano's massaging leather appointed seats. Yeah, massaging seats. Talk about melting away your stress. So could getting stuck in traffic become your happy place? I don't know. It sounds like it could in the all new Murano. You should probably check one out for yourself. You gotta drive the all new 2025 Nissan Murano today. Bose and massaging leather appointed seats are optional. Features foreign.
- [22:58]
Bob Pittman
Welcome back to math and magic. Let's hear more from my conversations with Tarang Amin. We had a real success and then you made the move to Elf. Why did you make the move?
- [23:10]
Instagram Representative
We had a great run at Schiff. We ended up selling the company to reckitt Ben Keiser. I then took a few months off and I looked at a lot of different businesses. And I'll tell you, my path to Elf was a series of fortunate accidents. I was asked to take a meeting to see this private company that was going to be for sale. And at first I said, no, I'm not interested in color cosmetics. There are too many brands, too low barriers of entry. I really wasn't interested in the category. But I also have an adage that says, never hurts to have a conversation. So under that rule, I said, all right, I'll take the meeting. And instantly fell in love with the business. Actually, today's my 11th anniversary of being CEO of LCD.
- [23:53]
Bob Pittman
Congratulations.
- [23:54]
Instagram Representative
Thank you. So a little bit over 11 years ago, I took that first meeting and at that time, the company was already about 10 years old. And what I loved about the story was the company was founded by a father and son entrepreneur. So I tend to be attracted to other entrepreneurs and founders. And I love their story. Alan Shama, the father, wanted to go into business with his son Joey. They started studying what categories could they disrupt. And they couldn't figure out why did people charge so much money in cosmetics. They had a lot of friends that were doing business with the Dollar Channel, Dollar General, Family Dollar. And so they said, what could we do that we could sell for a dollar? And Alan will tell me many times, trang, I don't know as many things as you do, but I know how to buy a shirt for $2 and sell it for four. And that novice approach, they completely turn cosmetics upside down. Because the original business model was if the Dollar channel wants to retail it for a dollar, they're going to want to buy it for me. Each piece for 50 cents. I'm going to have to figure out how to make it for 35 cents. And they figured it out. Everyone thought they were crazy at the time, like you couldn't sell cosmetics for a dollar. And of course, what I love about many entrepreneur stories is you always have to pivot. They then went to the Dollar Channel. The Dollar channel said, no, we're not interested. And they're like, what? Wait, we put all this effort in. What do you mean you're not interested? And Joey, meanwhile, had gotten one of their eyeliner pencils to an editor at Glamour. And she said, oh my gosh, I can't believe this is a dollar. I would love to write about it, but you have to be in distribution. She's like, you know, even if you had a website. And so in 2004, predating the iPhone, they started a website called isobsface.com selling cosmetics over the Internet for $1. Like I said, everyone thought they were crazy. You couldn't sell cosmetics for a dollar, and you certainly could the Internet at a buck each. But they figured it out. So that initial story of how disruptive they were really appealed to me. I love the digitally native roots. I love the value orientation. But then what I saw was real potential in terms of what we could do. They had just gotten into Target. They were highly productive in Target, but they weren't in distribution anywhere else. And so I love the story so much, I decided to jump in and co invest with the private equity company. And we bought the company back in 2014.
- [26:14]
Bob Pittman
Wow. Well, just. I'm just going to put some context for everyone listening today is you have taken ELF from 200 million in revenue to over a billion, and your stock has gone from $17 to $200.5x revenue growth, 10x stock growth. Pretty remarkable performance coming out of that. And I want to dig a little more into it. I'll come to it. But I want to sort of ask you a little bit because it keeps coming up. Here is your career is filled with risky decisions. How do you think about risk?
- [26:44]
Instagram Representative
It was funny. My first CEO role, the PE firm that hired me, I remember it was the last dinner whether I was going to get the job or not. They basically were like, oh, we looked at your background and we don't like that you haven't had any big public failures. And at first I was a little confused. I was like, what? And they're like, yeah, no, you've had a lot of success. And we'd like our CEOs, to have some big stumble, we feel like makes them hungrier for what we do. And so I asked him, I said, okay, do you mean to give you the flippant answer or the real answer? They said, well, now that you say that, do both. And I said, all right. The flippant answer is don't make me apologize for not being a loser. And they loved it. I feel like I had the job right then. And I said, but if you want the real answer, if you ask me what mistakes I've made, I would respond, since this morning, I'm constantly making mistakes. You're constantly learning. So what ends up happening is you're learning on these small failures, so it avoids the big, big, big miss. And so for me, the way I approach risk is encourage an organization to embrace innovation, to embrace change, constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail, actually celebrate those failures, actually talk about those things of what we learned and what we're going to go do about it. And so I think some people, when it comes to risk, are trying to mitigate every possible thing that can go wrong. And like I said, I think that's a fallacy. I think really paying attention and focusing on what could really send us sideways, let's focus on those few things, but otherwise, let's encourage people to keep moving forward, keep trying things, and learn from them so we can continue to innovate.
- [28:27]
Bob Pittman
That's great advice and great perspective. I've always loved the folks who say success and failure are the same thing. They're just stepping stones, one you learn more from, which is the failure. It seems like a very big part of who you are as CEO is your commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion. And it begins at the top. Can you talk a little bit about that commitment to diversity and how it helps your company and your business and how purpose driven separates you from others?
- [28:58]
Instagram Representative
It starts first with when we bought the company, this intention of we want to reflect the community we serve. So I'm really proud. From our employee base, our employee base is 74% women. I think almost 75% Gen Z and millennial, 44% diverse. We are very intentional of, like, let's make sure we're reflecting the people that we're serving. There was no DEI program or quotas. There was just this intention of, let's be crystal clear of who are we serving, who's our community, and how do we have people that reflect it. It's one of our biggest competitive advantages because we don't have to do focus Groups, we don't have to go do a bunch of research. Our employees are the people that we're serving. They have incredible insights and incredible knowledge and ability to move forward. But we didn't want it to stop with our employees. I remember when we went, we decided to go public. You know, I want to have a board that also reflects the people that we're serving and more importantly has real diversity of thought that can really push our thinking. My view of the board is not only do they have responsibility shareholders, but it's a total waste of time if you're not getting the smartest people, you know, with very different backgrounds helping push management teams on things that we're not seeing. And so our stats on our board standpoint is I think we're one of only two companies now, now out of 4,100 that has a board that's 78% women and over 44% diverse. And it's more than the stats. It's the different experience that they bring, the different thought processes that really just help me and the team.
- [30:35]
Bob Pittman
You know, another big part of what you do is as a disruptor. Clearly it's part of your culture. How have you built that into the culture and how have you harnessed it for growth?
- [30:46]
Instagram Representative
I think the spirit of disruption for us has been there from the very beginning. And I think like many digitally native businesses, there's definitely a culture of testing and learning. Let's go try things, let's put it online, see what happens, and let's get those signals from our community and consumers, what they respond to. But I think the other thing is the team. And importantly, it's not just the team composition but the culture you put them in, where a culture of high performance teamwork, where you building passionate relationships, you're giving each other feedback, you have a lot of mutual accountability, makes it a safe place to disrupt and try things. And then I think once you start disrupting, you continue to disrupt because one leads to the other and that becomes the norm. You know, one of the things we do to be able to encourage that as well is all the way to our compensation system. Like, it was very important to me. Almost going back to my motel days, I saw the power of owning something. So I insisted both that Schiff and Elf. Every employee has to be a shareholder. It was a big fight when I first got to shift. They were like, you know, the private equity was like, no, that's not our model. We only give equity to the top team. And I'm like, well, will them give me Performance incentives for my equity so we can give equity to everyone. And I saw the power of that at shift. So it wasn't even a debate at elf. I think we're one of the few companies in our space that gives meaningful equity to every single employee every year. So it gets to that ownership, that level that I talk about, where we're in it together. I think since our IPO, we've given, if you exclude the exec team, $180 million of equity in a stock that's gone up at least sevenfold. And so meaningful wealth creation for our team. And I'm very explicit about that because if people are owners, they just have much more skin in the game, like we're all owners. Let's keep moving forward, let's keep trying things. I think then builds upon itself in that culture.
- [32:41]
Bob Pittman
On a personal level, how do you think about work and your family and personal life? I can imagine growing up running the motel, it was sort of one and the same. How do you think about it now?
- [32:53]
Instagram Representative
That's been very much part of my whole life. It has been one and the same. When you're running a motel business, it's a 247 business. You're with your family, it's all together. And I think for me, a lot of people talk about work life balance. For me, they're one and the same. My personal life, my work life, they are so intertwined. So it's very much a family affair. One of the things my wife and I love doing is we do this series called Afternoon with the Means where we'll invite our key leaders and their spouses or partners to our house for an afternoon as a way of thanking them for what they're doing, as a way of getting to know them better. I love what I do at work. I love my personal life and I love that they're both together.
- [33:39]
Bob Pittman
Let's jump to some quick topics. Brand building. How do you think about brands? How do you build them?
- [33:46]
Instagram Representative
I feel brands are living, breathing things and that constantly evolve and need to be nurtured. And so I think of a brand of what is something represent in a consumer's mind and what does it stand for? Well beyond any functionality, attributes or benefits. And so, and I love over my career being able to see kind of how brands grow, how they evolve, what they stand for.
- [34:12]
Bob Pittman
Let's go to some advice. If someone wants to succeed running a company, what's the most important advice you could give them?
- [34:21]
Instagram Representative
I would say the most important advice is work on your peer to peer relationships. A lot of people spend too little time understanding other functional areas, understanding what makes people tick, how you work together, and most importantly, giving that feedback. Because I think where people often fail is they never knew what hit them or detracted from them. And so being able to really make sure that you develop that way of listening really well and providing feedback, I think are probably two of the most important skills in running anything.
- [34:57]
Bob Pittman
You've had a spectacular career and you've made some great choices. How do you know it's time to change jobs? Any advice there?
- [35:06]
Instagram Representative
I would say you gotta love what you're doing. I have One of my 80, 20 rules is 80% of what you work on. You gotta love 20%'s you know, the nonsense we all have to deal with. Whenever that gets out of whack, then you gotta, you almost gotta do a timeout and say, okay, we gotta renegotiate what's going on here. I've gotta change something. And so for me, unless you have true passion of what you're doing, you're probably not doing the right thing. And so I would say making sure you're taking those moments of introspection of am I truly happy? Am I loving what I'm doing, Am I actually good at what I'm doing and how do I get better? And if you don't have that fundamental passion and curiosity, then I'd say it's probably time to do something different.
- [35:49]
Bob Pittman
College. Does everybody need to go to college?
- [35:52]
Instagram Representative
No. I don't even know where, what schools most of the people I work with went to. It's about curiosity, learning and wanting to get better. I never bought into yet to be credentialed in a certain way to be effective in life. I love my college experience. It was just a great platform to continue to learn. But I'd say one of the other secrets of being successful is never feeling like you know anything, always being curious, always asking questions, always wanting to get better, always surrounding yourself with great people. That is so much more important than any particular credential or environment.
- [36:28]
Bob Pittman
You know, it's interesting, we hear the word curiosity a lot and talking to other leaders, it's actually part of our company's values. Is curiosity probably one of the most important things? It's interesting to hear you define that as sort of this important thing just for life and career. Final advice. If you could go back in time and give some Advice to your 21 year old self, what would that advice be?
- [36:52]
Instagram Representative
That advice would be embrace what you think is risky or what you're worried about. I mean, I got married at a pretty young age, was the only kind of breadwinner, and I was very happy at P and G. But there's an entire revolution happening on the Internet and I was a little risk averse or reluctant to kind of say, hey, I should just take the leap when things are going well to go pursue something that I thought was really interesting. And I'd say so. My biggest advice is the advice somebody once gave me, which is lean in, say yes, try something different, and don't be so worried about what if it doesn't work.
- [37:30]
Bob Pittman
We end each episode of Math and Magic with a shout out to those who've influenced us the most from two sides. The analytical side. Some people call them quants, some people call them data people, some people say them, pattern recognition people, et cetera. But the math side and the other person we want to give a shout out to is that sort of creative genius. The promotional, the art, the magic. Who are your two?
- [37:54]
Instagram Representative
So on the math side I would say Jensen Huang. Just love his story and his vision. But more importantly than vision and perseverance, his ability to get that done and the progress Nvidia has made, it's just been incredible. I'm very in awe of that.
- [38:09]
Bob Pittman
On the magic side.
- [38:11]
Instagram Representative
On the magic side, I would say Mike Cesario, the founder and CEO of Liquid Death, I just love that he made a can of water an object of desire, turned it into the art of entertainment. I think that's magic. I also love the fact that they start with a very simple question, which is what's the dumbest thing we can do? You know, dumbest thing you can do is take a can of water and make it something that's cool. And then they're constantly I feel like this ability of normalizing the bizarre. I just feel like it's quite magical what he and his team are doing.
- [38:44]
Bob Pittman
Tarang, what an unusual and inspiring story you have, both personally and professionally, and what unique and wildly successful company you've had. Huge congrats. Thanks for sharing your insights. Here are a few things I picked up from my conversation with one. Transparency is a superpower. One of the reasons Tarang loves running a public company is because it requires him to be open and honest. His commitment to transparency extends to every part of his work. From admitting when he's wrong and embracing failure as an opportunity to pivot and grow. Transparency can be the key to unfettered creativity, innovation, and disruption.
- [39:25]
Instagram Representative
2.
- [39:25]
Bob Pittman
Incentivizing employees can be so much more than a pep talk. Terrang takes accountability and ownership seriously, and not only at the executive level. From compensation to collaboration, there can be concrete offerings and opportunities for growth regardless of someone's role or seniority. Depending on the goals you set, this can have far reaching effects on sales and innovation in addition to culture and teamwork. 3. Diversity can be woven into the fabric of success. The advantages of employing people with a multitude of perspectives and experiences can't be boiled down into a single goal, quota or initiative. Diversity can serve a company in countless ways, especially when it's built into every level of operation, from day to day discussions to product testing and marketing to board level strategizing. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it for today's episode.
- [40:21]
iHeartRadio Host
Thanks so much for listening to Math.
- [40:23]
Bob Pittman
And Magic, a production of Iheart Podcasts. The show is created and hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sydney Rosenblum for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat. The Math and Magic team is Jessica Krein, Chich and Behead Fraser. Our Our executive producers are Ally Perry and Nikki Itor. Until next time.
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