The History of Literature Podcast - Episode 662: "Monstrous Work and Radical Satisfaction - Black Women Writing Under Segregation"

Release Date: December 19, 2024
Host: Jacke Wilson | Guest: Eve Dunbar | Special Appearance: Denny Kasa

Introduction to the Episode

In this thought-provoking episode of "The History of Literature", host Jacke Wilson delves into the intricate world of Black women writers during the era of segregation. Joined by esteemed literary scholar Eve Dunbar, the discussion centers around Dunbar's latest work, "Monstrous Work and Radical Satisfaction - Black Women Writing Under Segregation." Additionally, the episode features a special segment with Denny Kasa, who shares insights on his literary influences.

Conversation with Eve Dunbar

Exploring "Monstrous Work and Radical Satisfaction"

Eve Dunbar introduces her book by recounting the challenges Black women faced when rejecting the pursuit of "whiteness" as a means of upward mobility. She articulates the concept of "monstrous work", describing the profound efforts Black women undertook to resist societal norms and maintain their cultural identity amidst pervasive segregation.

Eve Dunbar [01:06]:
"What happens to the Black woman who refuses the potential upward mobility, financial, professional, social offered by liberal inclusion? It felt monstrous to imagine..."

Historical Context: 1930s to 1950s

Dunbar provides a comprehensive overview of the literary landscape from the 1930s to the 1950s, highlighting the dual challenges Black writers faced in accessing mainstream publishing while catering to both Black and white audiences.

Eve Dunbar [16:27]:
"The audience is always going to be mixed. It's historically been a dual audience for Black writers."

Monstrous Work: A Reimagined Concept

Dunbar elaborates on "monstrous work", redefining it not as a negative term but as a testament to the resilience and productive endeavors of Black women against systemic oppression.

Eve Dunbar [27:34]:
"Monstrous work is work that is done, that doesn't actually produce the conditions that would promise upward mobility, that would promise integration... it's always monstrousness..."

Integration and Its Discontents

The conversation delves into the nuanced critiques of integration as proposed by Black women writers like Zora Neale Hurston. Dunbar discusses Hurston's skepticism toward integration, emphasizing the need for equal resources rather than mere inclusion.

Zora Neale Hurston's Response [23:09]:
"I do not believe that this particular case is a case that is at all interested in the health and well-being of Black people... if you were to invest in Black schools and in Black students, then these Black students would perform just as well as white students."

Literary Examples of Resistance and Satisfaction

Dunbar highlights works by Gwendolyn Brooks, Alice Childress, and others, showcasing how these authors portrayed Black women's ability to find joy and wholeness despite systemic challenges.

Eve Dunbar [36:54]:
"In 'Maud Martha,' Gwendolyn Brooks explores the protagonist's capacity to find happiness amidst racism and sexism... It's a blueprint for feeling, for being complete."

Modern Reflections: Progress and Skepticism

Addressing contemporary events, including the nomination of a Black woman for the presidency, Dunbar emphasizes a blend of hope and skepticism rooted in the historical struggles faced by Black women.

Eve Dunbar [49:55]:
"I think you have to take a skeptical view... there's a problem of history to attend to. What does progress actually mean in this country?"

Special Segment with Denny Kasa

Transitioning from Dunbar's insightful analysis, Jacke Wilson welcomes Denny Kasa to discuss his literary preferences. Responding to a listener's question about his "last book," Kasa intriguingly selects both the King James Bible and "The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoevsky, highlighting the profound influence of these texts on his literary perspective.

Denny Kasa [54:20]:
"The King James Bible inspired so much of the poetry that I've grown attached to... If I can't have them all, I would have the book that inspired the metaphors that they all use."

Denny Kasa [55:56]:
"A novel that was very important for me personally is 'The Brothers Karamazov.' It was not at all what I've researched and that's probably a big plus for me that I want, if it's going to be my last book, to be something that I am not simply researching, but have that the pleasure of... enjoying something."

Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

Jacke Wilson wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude to Eve Dunbar and Denny Kasa for their contributions. He also thanks listener Lila for her heartfelt message, encouraging perseverance in the study of English literature.

Looking ahead, Wilson teases an exciting lineup for the next episodes, including:

• A two-part exploration of "The Dead"
• Archival insights into Keats
• Discussions with Mike Palindrome on winter dreams
• Upcoming topics such as Herman Melville, Edna Ferber, Zora Neale Hurston, Dylan Thomas, and more.

Jack Wilson [58:28]:
"Come on, we've got a show to do."
"Next week, a two part episode on The Dead provided to you without commercial interruptions."

Notable Quotes

• Eve Dunbar [01:06]:
  "What feels monstrous to imagine... monstrousness in the works I read by Black women authors from the mid 20th century."

• Eve Dunbar [15:51]:
  "Black resilience looks like work in the face of an anti-Black nation."

• Eve Dunbar [29:19]:
  "If you're looking to inclusion, simple inclusion, without the kind of wholesale restructuring, it's always going to be faulty."

• Eve Dunbar [33:54]:
  "Black people can rightfully say, we shouldn't be looking toward white people for examples of morality... you should be looking to us because we've been unencumbered by this past moral stain."

• Eve Dunbar [43:46]:
  "It's like constant squashing. How do you make sense of that?"

Final Thoughts

Episode 662 of "The History of Literature" offers a deep dive into the resilience and creativity of Black women writers during segregation. Through Eve Dunbar's critical lens, listeners gain an appreciation for the nuanced ways these authors navigated and resisted oppressive structures, finding radical satisfaction in their literary pursuits. Denny Kasa's reflections further enrich the episode, bridging historical literary discourse with personal literary influences.

Stay tuned for more engaging literary explorations in upcoming episodes!