← The History of Literature
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- [00:02]
Jack Wilson
The History of Literature Podcast is a member of the podglomerate Network and Lit Hub Radio.
- [00:09]
Mike Palindrome
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Jack Wilson
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Emma
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- [01:09]
Jack Wilson
Hello. Today on the podcast we hear a story from the early 20th century Mrs. Spring Fragrance by Edith Maud Eaton who wrote as Sway Sinfar. Then we'll have Mike Palindrome join us for a discussion and spoiler alert. Mike took this story personally. That's all coming up today on the History of Literature. Hello everyone and welcome to the podcast. I'm A Jack Wilson and B. Glad you're here today. And C All of the above. That's your quiz for the day. We're doing multiple choice tests. I took a multiple choice test once and the teacher introduced new facts in the answers. Can you imagine what a mind mind blowing experience that was? Let's imagine it in the world of literature. Here we go. Leo Tolstoy is best known for A writing War and Peace, B writing Anna Karenina, C if we don't count his novels, his calls for political reform, or D if we don't count his novels and anything that happened in his lifetime never winning the Nobel Prize. Now how would you answer that? You write A writing War and Peace. But then if we set aside his novels, don't count his novels. That's in number, that's in letter C. How would you Students were literally banging their heads on their desks. Maybe in protest, maybe in trying to call attention to this. And somehow, somehow I managed to do well on that test. I think I accepted the crazy and just let it flow through me like Luke Skywalker. If the Force was the crazy Capital C. Okay, one thing that's not crazy, capital C or lowercase C is our talk with Victoria Nam Kung. We had recently about the writer Hsui Sin Far. We ran that episode a few weeks ago. As a reminder, Sway Sin Far was an amazing writer who lived from 1865 to 1914. Victoria has edited a collection of her works, and Victoria also wrote a wonderful introduction to it. Sway Sin Farr was born as Edith Maud Eaton in England. She moved to Canada. She went to the United States. She wrote about Asian immigrant communities then living mostly on the east and West Coasts. The story we're going to hear, Mrs. Spring Fragrance, read by our intrepid producer, Emma, takes place mostly in Seattle and San Francisco. And the more things change, the more they stay the same. I'll talk about immigration and some statistics and historical background when Mike gets here. So let's bring him out. Let's hear from Mike, then we'll hear the story, and then Mike will return for his analysis of the story. Mike had a personal reaction to the story. We learn a lot about Mike and his background, and we get into a lot of interesting areas triggered by this story. Mrs. Spring Fragrance. That's what literature is and can do, inspire conversations like this one. It's a celebration of literature, which will start right now. Okay. Joining me now is our old friend Mike Palindrome, the president of the Literature Supporters Club. Mike, has anyone ever called you Mr. Spring Fragrance?
- [05:03]
Mike Palindrome
No.
- [05:04]
Jack Wilson
Okay, well, maybe this will be the year. So this book that we're going to be talking about today, the book came out in 1912, but the stories were written earlier. Edith Maud Eaton, or Sway Sin Farr, was born in 1865 in England. Her father was English. Her mother was Chinese. She had a childhood in Montreal, and then she set out for America, where she worked as a journalist and a writer. She wrote about the lives of Chinese Americans on the east and west coasts. Had you read anything by Hsui Sin Farr before I asked you to read this story?
- [05:40]
Mike Palindrome
No, I had not. And I had not heard of her other than through your podcast, because I.
- [05:46]
Jack Wilson
Listened to the episode with Victoria Namcoung, which was great. I love talking to Victoria about Sway Sin Far and learning more about her. She had such an interesting background and was kind of a pioneer. Pioneer in the way she approached the lives of the Chinese immigrants who were living in America and Canada at the time. But let's talk about the story. Is there anything we're going to hear it? Emma is going to read it for our listeners. Is there anything we should prepare the listeners for before we listen to the story.
- [06:28]
Mike Palindrome
No, but maybe just remind everybody it was written in 1912, which you've already done.
- [06:33]
Jack Wilson
Right? Right. Right. Yep. This is and we'll talk about that why you felt like that was important to note. Sure. Okay, let's jump right into it. Mrs. Spring Fragrance by Sui Sin Remember.
- [07:01]
Emma
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- [07:28]
Jack Wilson
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- [07:57]
Emma
Now taxes is relaxing. When you file for free I can file for free TurboTax Free Edition Roughly 37% of filers qualify. Simple Form 1040 returns only. See if you qualify@turbotax.com free I can file for free free now this is Taxes. File for free with TurboTax Free Edition and get your maximum refund. No schedules except for earned income tax credit, child tax credit, and student loan interest. See if you qualify@turbotax.com free. Mrs. Spring Fragrance by Suisin Farr Part 1 When Mrs. Spring Fragrance first arrived in Seattle, she was unacquainted with even one word of the American language. Five years later, her husband, speaking of her, said there are no more American words for her learning. And everyone who knew Mrs. Spring Fragrance agreed with Mr. Spring Fragrance. Mr. Spring Fragrance, whose business name was Sing Yuk, was a young curio merchant. Though conservatively Chinese in many respects, he was at the same time what is called by Westerners Americanized. Mrs. Spring Fragrance was even more Americanized. Next door to the Spring Fragrances live the Chenyuans. Mrs. Chenyuan was much older than Mrs. Spring Fragrance, but she had a daughter of 18 with whom Mrs. Spring Fragrance was on terms of great friendship. The daughter was a pretty girl whose Chinese name was Mei Gui, far a rose, and whose American name was Laura. Nearly everyone called her Laura, even her parents and Chinese friends. Laura had a sweetheart, a youth named Kai Su. Kai Su was American born and as ready and stalwart as any young Westerner was noted among baseball players as one of the finest pitchers on the coast. He could also sing Drink Me Only with Thine Eyes to Laura's piano accompaniment. Now the only person who knew that Kai sue loved Laura and that Laura loved kai Susan was Mrs. Spring Fragrance. The reason for this was that although the Chenyuan parents lived in a house furnished in American style and wore American clothes, yet they religiously observed many Chinese customs, and their ideals of life were the ideals of their Chinese forefathers. Therefore they had betrothed their daughter Laura at the age of 15 to the eldest son of the Chinese government school teacher in San Francisco. The time of the consummation of the patrol was approaching. Laura was with Mrs. Spring Fragrance, and Mrs. Spring Fragrance was trying to cheer her. I had such a pretty walk, said she. I crossed the banks above the beach and came back by the long road. In the green grass the daffodils were blowing in the cottage gardens, the currant bushes were flowering, and in the air was a perfume of the wallflower. I wished, Laura, that you were with me. Laura burst into tears. That is the walk, she sobbed. Kai Su and I so love, but never, ah, never can we take it together again. Now, little sister, comforted Mrs. Spring Fragrance, you really must not grieve like that. Is there not a beautiful American poem written by a noble American named Tennyson, which says, tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all? Mrs. Spring Fragrance was unaware that Mr. Spring Fragrance, having returned from the city tired with the day's business, had thrown himself down on the bamboo settee on the veranda, and that although his eyes were were engaged in scanning the pages of the Chinese world, his ears could not help receiving the words which were borne to him through the open window. Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all, repeated Mr. Spring Fragrance. Not wishing to hear more of the secret talk of women, he arose and sauntered around the veranda to the other side of the house. Two pigeons circled around his head. He felt in his pocket for a lychee, which he usually carried for their pecking. His fingers touched a little box. It contained a jade stone pendant which Mrs. Spring Fragrance had particularly admired the last time she was downtown. It was the fifth anniversary of Mr. And Mrs. Spring Fragrance's wedding day. Mr. Spring Fragrance pressed the little box into the depths of his pocket. A young man came out of the back door of the house at Mr. Spring Fragrance's left. The Shen Yuen's house was at his right. Good evening, said the young man. Good evening, returned Mr. Spring Fragrance. He stepped down from his porch and went and leaned over the railing which separated this yard from the yard in which stood the young man. Will you please tell me, said Mr. Spring Fragrance, the meaning of two lines of an American verse which I have heard? Certainly, returned the young man with a genial smile. He was a star student at the University of Washington and had not the slightest doubt that he could explain the meaning of all things in the universe. Well, said Mr. Spring Fragrance, it is this. Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Ah, responded the young man with an air of profound wisdom, that Mr. Spink fragrance means that it is a good thing to love anyway, even if we can't get what we love, or, as a poet tells us, lose what we love. Of course, one needs experience to feel the truth of this teaching. The young man smiled pensively and reminiscently. More than a dozen young maidens, loved and lost, were passing before his mind's eye. The truth of the teaching, echoed Mr. Spring Fragrance a little testily. There is no truth in it whatever. It is disobedient to reason. Is it not better to have what you do not love to than to love what you do not have? That depends, answered the young man, upon temperament. I thank you. Good evening, said Mr. Spring Fragrance. He turned away to muse upon the unwisdom of the American way of looking at things. Meanwhile, inside the house, Laura was refusing to be comforted. Oh, no, no. She cried. If I had not gone to school with Kaisu, nor talked nor walked with him, nor played the accompaniments to his songs, then I might consider with complacency, or at least without horror, my approaching marriage with the son of Man Yu. But as it is, oh, as it is. The girl rocked herself to and fro in heartfelt grief. Mrs. Spring fragrance knelt down beside her, and, clasping her arms around her neck, cried in sympathy. Little sister, oh, little sister, dry your tears, do not despair. A moon has yet to pass before the marriage can take place. Who knows what the stars may have to say to one another during its passing? A little bird has whispered to me for a long time. Mrs. Spring Fragrance talked for a long time. Laura listened. When the girl arose to go, there was a bright light in her eyes. Part 2 Mrs. Spring Fragrance, in San Francisco, on a visit to her cousin, the wife of the herb doctor of Clay street, was having a good time. She was invited everywhere that the wife of an honorable Chinese merchant could go. There is much to see and hear, including more than a dozen babies who had been born in the families of her friends since her last visit to the city of the Golden Gate. Mrs. Spring Fragrance loved babies she had had to herself, but both had been transplanted into the Spirit Land before the completion of even one moon. There were also many dinners and theater parties given in her honor. It was at one of the theater parties that Mrs. Spring Fragrance met Aoi, a young girl who had the reputation of being the prettiest Chinese girl in San Francisco and the naughtiest. In spite of the gossip, however, Mrs. Spring Fragrance took a great fancy to AI Oi and invited her to a tete a tete picnic on the following day. This invitation Aoi joyfully accepted. She was a sort of bird girl and never felt so happy as when out in the park or woods. On the day after the picnic, Mrs. Spring Fragrance wrote to Laura Chin Yuen, my precious Laura, May bamboo ever wave. Next week I accompany Aoi to the Buddhist town of San Jose. There we will be met by the son of the Illustrious Teacher, and in a little mission presided over by a benevolent American priest, the little Ayoi and the son of the illustrious Teacher will be joined together in love and harmony, two pieces of music made to complete one another. The son of the illustrious Teacher, having been through an American hall of learning, is well able to provide for his orphan bride and fears not the displeasure of his parents. Now that he is assured that your grief at his loss will not be inconsolable, he wishes me to waft to you and to Kai Su. And the little Ayoi joins with him 10,000 rainbow wishes for your happiness. My respects to your honorable parents and to yourself, the heart of your loving friend, Jade spring Fragrance. To Mr. Spring Fragrance. Mrs. Spring Fragrance also indited a letter. Great and honored man. Greetings from your plum blossom, who is desirous of hiding herself from the sun of your presence for a week and of seven days more. My honorable cousin is preparing for the fifth Moon Festival and wishes me to compound for the occasion some American fudge for which delectable sweet made by my clumsy hands. You have sometimes shown a slight prejudice. I am enjoying a most agreeable visit, and American friends, as also our own, strive benevolently for the accomplishment of my pleasure. Mrs. Samuel Smith, an American lady known to my cousin, asked for my accompaniment to a magniloquent lecture the other evening. The subject was America, the protector of China. It was most exhilarating, and the effect of so much expression of benevolence leads me to beg of you to forget to remember that the barber charges you $1 for a shave while he humbly submits to the American man a bill of 15 cents and murmur no more because your honored elder brother on a visit to this country is detained under the roof tree of this great government instead of under your own humble roof. Console him with the reflection that he is protected under the wing of the eagle, the emblem of liberty. What is the loss of ten hundred years or ten thousand times ten dollars compared to the happiness of knowing oneself so securely sheltered? All of this I have learned from Mrs. Samuel Smith, who is as brilliant and great of mind as one of your own superior sex. For me it is sufficient to know that the Golden Gate park is most enchanting and the seals on the rock at the Cliff House extremely entertaining and amiable. There is much feasting and merrymaking under the lanterns. In honor of your stupid thorn, I have purchased for your smoking a pipe with an amber mouth. It is said to be very sweet to the lips and to emit a cloud of smoke fit for the gods to inhale. Awaiting by the wonderful wire of the telegram message your gracious permission to remain for the celebration of the fifth Moon Festival and the making of American Fudge. I Continue For a 10,000 times 10,000 years, your ever loving and obedient woman, Jade. P.S. forget not to care for the cat, the birds and the flowers. Do not eat too quickly, nor fan too vigorously now that the weather is warming. Mrs. Spring Fragrance smiled as she folded this last epistle. Even if he were old fashioned, there was never a husband so good and kind as hers. Only on one occasion since their marriage had he slighted her wishes. That was when, on the last anniversary of their wedding, she had signified a desire for a certain jadestone pendant, and he had failed to satisfy that desire. But Mrs. Spring Fragrance, being of a happy nature and disposed to look upon the bright side of things, did not allow her mind to dwell upon the jadestone pendant. Instead, she gazed complacently down upon her bejeweled fingers and folded in with her letter to Mr. Spring Fragrance, a bright little sheaf of condensed love. Part 3 Mr. Spring Fragrance sat on his doorstep. He had been reading two letters, one for Mrs. Spring Fragrance and the other from an elderly bachelor Cousin in San Francisco. The one from the elderly bachelor cousin was a business letter, but contained the following Sen Heng, the son of the government schoolmaster, seems to be much in the company of your young wife. He is a good looking youth, and pardon me, my dear cousin, but if women are allowed to stray at will from under their husband's mulberry roofs, what is to prevent them from becoming butterflies? Sing Foon is old and cynical, said Mr. Spring Fragrance to himself. Why should I pay any attention to him? This is America, where a man may speak to a woman and a woman listen without any thought of evil. He destroyed his cousin's letter and re read his wives. Then he became very thoughtful. Was the making of American Fudge sufficient reason for a wife to wish to remain a week longer in a city where her husband was not? The young man who lived in the next house came out to water the lawn. Good evening, said he. Any news from Mrs. Spring Fragrance? She is having a very good time, returned Mr. Spring Fragrance. Glad to hear it. I think you told me she was to return the end of this week. I have changed my mind about her, said Mr. Spring Fragrance. I am bidding her remain a week longer as I wish to give a smoking party during her absence. I hope I may have the pleasure of your company. I shall be delighted, returned the young fellow. But Mr. Spring Fragrance, don't invite any other white fellows. If you do not, I shall be able to get in a scoop. You know I'm a sort of honorary reporter for the Gleaner. Very well, absently answered Mr. Spring Fragrance. Of course, your friend the Council will be present. I shall call it a high class Chinese stag party. In spite of his melancholy mood, Mr. Spring Fragrance smiled. Everything is high class in America, he observed. Sure, cheerfully assented the young man. Haven't you ever heard that all Americans are princes and princesses? And just as soon as a foreigner puts his foot upon our shores, he also becomes of the nobility. I mean the royal family. What about my brother in the detention pen? Dryly inquired Mr. Spring Fragrance. Now you've got me, said the young man, rubbing his head. Well, that is a shame. A beastly shame, as the Englishman says. But understand, old fellow, we that are real Americans are up against that even more than you. It is against our principles. I offer the real Americans my consolation that they should be compelled to do that which is against their principles. Oh, well, it will all come right some day. We're not a bad sort, you know. Think of the indemnity money returned to the Dragon by Uncle Sam. Mr. Spring Fragrance Puffed his pipe in silence. For some moments more than politics was troubling his mind. At last he spoke. Love, said he slowly and distinctly, comes before the wedding in this country, does it not? Yes, certainly. Young Carmen knew Mr. Spring Fragrance well enough to receive with calmness his most astounding queries. Presuming, continued Mr. Spring Fragrance, presuming that some friend of your father's living, presuming in England has a daughter, that he arranges with your father to be your wife, presuming that you have never seen that daughter, but that you marry her knowing her not, presuming that she marries you knowing you not after she marries you and knows you, will that woman love you emphatically? No, answered the young man. That is the way it would be in America, that the woman who marries the man like that would not love him. Yes, that is the way it would be in America. Love in this country must be free, or it is not love at all. In China it is different, mused Mistress Spring Fragrance. Ah, yes, I have no doubt that in China it is different. But the love is in the heart all the same, went on Mr. Fragrance. Yes, all the same. Everybody falls in love sometime or another. Some pensively, many times. Mr. Spring Fragrance arose. I must go downtown, said he. As he walked down the streets, he recalled the remark of a business acquaintance who had met his wife and had had some conversation with her. She is just like an American woman. He had felt somewhat flattered when this remark had been made. He looked upon it as a compliment to his wife's cleverness. But it rankled in his mind as he entered the telegraph office. If his wife was becoming an American woman, would it not be possible for her to love as an American woman a man to whom she was not married? There also floated in his memory the verse which his wife had quoted to the daughter of Chin. When the telegraph clerk handed him a blank, he wrote this. Remain as you wish, but remember that tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. When Mrs. Spring Fragrance received this message, her laughter tinkled like falling water. How droll. How delightful. Here was her husband quoting American poetry in a telegram. Perhaps he had been reading her American poetry books since she had left him. She hoped so they would lead him to understand her sympathy for her dear Laura and Kaisu. She need no longer keep him from their secret. How joyful. It had been such a hardship to refrain from confiding in him before. But discreetness had been most necessary, seeing that Mr. Spring Fragrance entertained as old fashioned notions concerning marriage, as did the Shen Yuan parents. Strange that that should be so, since he had fallen in love with her picture before ever he had seen her, just as she had fallen in love with his. And when the marriage veil was lifted and each beheld the other for the first time in the flesh, there had been no disillusion, no lessening of the respect and affection which those who had brought about the marriage had inspired in each young heart. Mrs. Spring fragrance began to wish she could fall asleep and wake to find the week flown, and she in her own little home, pouring tea for Mr. Spring Fragrance. Part four Mr. Spring Fragrance was walking to business with Mr. Chin Yuan. As they walked, they talked. Yes, said Mr. Chenyuan, the old order is passing away, and the new order is taking its place, even with us who are Chinese. I have finally consented to give my daughter in marriage to young kai su. Mr. Spring Fragrance expressed surprise. He had understood that the marriage between the neighbor's daughter and the San Francisco schoolteacher's son was all arranged. So twas answered Mr. Chen Yuan. But it seems the young renegade, without consultation or advice, has placed his affections upon some untrustworthy female and is so under her influence that he refuses to fulfill his parents promise to me for him. So, said Mr. Spring Fragrance. The shadow on his brow deepened. But, said Mr. Chenyuan, with affable resignation, it is all ordained by heaven. Our daughter, as the wife of Kai Su, for whom she has long had a loving feeling, will not now be compelled to dwell with a mother in law and where her own mother is not. For that we are thankful that as she is our only one, and the conditions of life in this western country are not as in China. Moreover, Kai Su, though not so much of a scholar as a teacher's son, has a keen eye for business, and that in America is certainly much more desirable than scholarship. What do you think? Ah, what? Exclaimed Mr. Spring Fragrance. The latter part of his companion's remarks had been lost upon him that day. The shadow which had been following Mr. Spring Fragrance ever since he had heard his wife's quote, tis better to have loved, etc. Became so heavy and deep that he quite lost himself within it. At home in the evening, he fed the cat, the bird, and the flowers. Then, seating himself in a curved black chair, a present from his wife on his last birthday, he took out his pipe and smoked. The cat jumped into his lap. He stroked it softly and tenderly. It had been much fondled by Mrs. Spring Fragrance, and Mr. Spring Fragrance was under the impression that it missed her Poor thing, said he, I suppose you want her back. When he arose to go to bed, he placed the animal carefully on the floor and thus apostrophized it. O wise and Silent one, your mistress returns to you, but her heart she leaves behind her with the tommies in San Francisco. The Wise and Silent One made no reply. He was not a jealous cat. Mr. Spring Fragrance slept not that night. The next morning he ate not three days and three nights without sleep, and food went by. There was a spring like freshness in the air on the day that Mrs. Spring Fragrance came home. The skies overhead were as blue as Puget Sound, stretching its gleaming length toward the mighty Pacific, and all the beautiful green world seemed to be throbbing with spring like life. Mrs. Spring fragrance was never so radiant. Oh. She cried light heartedly. Is it not so lovely to see the sun shining so clear and everything so bright to welcome me? Mr. Spring fragrance made no response. It was the morning after the fourth sleepless night. Mrs. Spring Fragrance noticed his silence, also his grave face. Everything, everyone is glad to see me but you, she declared, half seriously, half jestingly. Mr. Spring Fragrance Set down her valise. They had just entered the house. If my wife is glad to see me, he quietly replied, I am glad to see her. Summoning their servant boy, he bade him look after Mrs. Spring Fragrance's comfort. I must be at the store in half an hour, said he, looking at his watch. There are some very important business requiring attention. What is the business? Inquired Mrs. Spring Fragrance, her lip quivering with disappointment. I cannot just explain to you, answered her husband. Mrs. Spring Fragrance looked up into his face with honest and earnest eyes. There's something in his manner, in the tone of her husband's voice, which touched her. Yen, said she, you do not look well. You are not well. What is it? Something arose in Mr. Spring Fragrance's throat which prevented him from replying. Oh, darling one, oh sweetest one. Cried a girl's joyous voice. Laura Cheny ran into the room and threw her arms around Mrs. Spring Fragrance's neck. I spied you from the window, said Laura, and I couldn't rest until I told you. We are married next week, Kai sue and I. And all through you, all through you, the sweetest jade jewel in the world. Mr. Spring fragrance passed out of the room. So the son of the government teacher and little happy love are already married, Laura went on, relieving Mrs. Spring Fragrance of her cloak, her hat, and her folding fan. Mr. Spring fragrance paused upon the doorstep. Sit down, little sister, and I will tell you all about it, said Mrs. Spring Fragrance, forgetting her husband for a moment. When Large Chen Yuen had danced away, Mr. Spring fragrance came in and hung up his hat. You got back very soon, said Mrs. Spring Fragrance, covertly wiping away the tears which had begun to fall as soon as she thought herself alone. I did not go, answered Mr. Spring Fragrance. I have been listening to you and Laura, but if the business is very important, do you not think you should attend to it? Anxiously queried Mrs. Spring Fragrance. It is not important to me now, returned Mr. Spring Fragrance. I would prefer to hear again about Ayoi and Manyu and Laura and Kaisu. How lovely of you to say that. Exclaimed Mrs. Spring Fragrance, who was easily made happy, and she began to chat away to her husband in the friendliest and wifeliest fashion possible. When she had finished, she asked him if he were not glad to hear that those who loved, as did the young lovers whose secrets she had been keeping, were to be united, and he replied that indeed he was, that he would like every man to be as happy with a wife as he himself had ever been and ever would be. You did not always talk like that, said Mrs. Spring Fragrance, slyly. You must have been reading my American poetry books. American poetry? Ejaculated Mr. Spring fragrance almost fiercely. American poetry is detestable, abhorrible. Why? Why? Exclaimed Mrs. Spring Fragrance, more and more surprised. But the only explanation, which Mr. Spring Fragrance vouchsafed was a jade stone pendant. Shopify is a global commerce platform that.
- [37:37]
Jack Wilson
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- [38:14]
Jack Wilson
Okay, we're back. So Mike, I want to walk through the story, but I don't know if we should talk about things generally first or if you want to save that. As we were getting ready for this, I'm going to share this text that you sent me. You said, is it okay if I'm really critical of the story? And then the next text was tastefully so do you want to talk about your overall take or should we walk through the story a little bit and you can deliver your opinions as we go?
- [38:46]
Mike Palindrome
Why don't we walk through the story? But I just want to say one thing that I admire the life she had as someone writing in the late 19th century, early 20th century, being half Chinese, half white, being a woman. I think we all like to think of ourselves. A lot of us like to think of ourselves as determined. But I think it's this next level of being determined, being strong and independent to be able to accomplish what she did. And I think she, you know, some people are called pioneer. She really was a pioneer. And I don't want to discount with what I say in the discussion of this story with her influence, her really positive influence on Asian American and Asian literature.
- [39:39]
Jack Wilson
Right, right. And it is part of this, and especially for women, it is something that I've come to appreciate more as I've been working on this podcast, is just how important the role of newspapers and journalism and magazines. And just that moment, from maybe 1890 or so through the 1920s, it gave so many women the opportunity to pursue a life outside the home, to be a professional and to say the things that they wanted to say. You know, before that, we have all these examples of women who were writing in the home and maybe sometimes even kind of hiding it from their families. And here's a chance where just the economics of newspapers and the advent of that whole genre of investigative journalism and features and all of that, it really gave a lot of people their start. I want to kind of give credit to that era, especially the way that women had a space where they were welcomed.
- [40:59]
Mike Palindrome
I just think there's so much fiction and poetry that's published by men that I started actually about five years ago, keeping track of my breakdown every year of men and women. And before I started consciously looking and thinking about what next book I reach for, the breakdown was almost five times more men, and now it's more 50. 50. So there's. I think it's just the marketplace that drives this, but also the wider society and the way you think of what is established, what is good.
- [41:38]
Jack Wilson
So, okay, so let's jump in. I really kind of admired the setup that Mr. Spring. I'll just repeat it for everybody. Mr. Spring fragrance is Chinese born, but what the Westerners call Americanized. And Mrs. Spring Fragrance is even more Americanized. And they have her friend, the neighbor Laura is also Americanized. This is all in Seattle, by the way. And Kai Tzu is as American as it gets. He's American born. He's as ruddy and stalwart as any young Westerner. He's a baseball star. And Laura's parents, the Chin Yuans, have adopted American trappings like the decor in the house and the clothes they wear. But they religiously Observe the ideals of their Chinese forefathers. And they have arranged a marriage for Laura with the Chinese government school teacher in San Francisco. And the only one who knows that Laura actually loves Kaizu is Mrs. Spring Fragrance. So we have this kind of matchmaker. It's all laid out very efficiently and we have a sort of. All the themes of the story are efficiently presented as this is going to be about tradition versus the new. It's about immigration. It's about what happens when you adopt the customs and culture of the new place. But yet family members are still clinging to the past and how that works when it comes to something like love and marriage.
- [43:15]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah, I mean, it's a very efficient, quick setup. And I think it's almost a little bit like a chessboard. It's set up very clearly and all writing teaches the reader how to read it. And the beginning of this makes it puts directly in your mind this idea that they're going to be more twists because in two or three paragraphs there's plot stuff that often would take maybe five pages, four pages.
- [43:49]
Jack Wilson
Right. You'd meet people sort of slowly and as you meet them you would see, oh, this person is a slightly different. This is a neighbor who has these. Instead, it's just all laid out like you said. It's like setting up the pieces on a chessboard.
- [44:05]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah, I was fine with all the.
- [44:09]
Jack Wilson
Yeah, yeah, me too. I kind of liked. And also I've got some stats here. This is the last big chunk of things I wanted to say is about immigration and just in general, how prevalent this was and how Asian immigration fit into it during this era. So the story of the 19th century in America really is a story of immigration. Between 1845 and 1855, the years of the potato famine, 1.5 million people fled Ireland for the US just in those 10 years, which is kind of incredible. And then 5 million immigrants came between 1850 and 1860, mostly from European countries. And between the 1850s and 1882, 175,000 Chinese immigrants and 150,000 Japanese immigrants arrived in America. There were 9 million people who arrived in the last two decades of the 19th century. But at that point, almost none of them were Chinese because in 1882, the Chinese exclusion act had almost eliminated immigration coming from China and had barred Chinese born citizens from becoming naturalized Americans. That's one of the, the most explicitly racist laws that America has ever seen, the Chinese Exclusion Act. So it's immigration, as is a big pattern in America, but it's immigration with a twist. We've got the same familiar story of families who arrive in a new country and they're trying to maintain the old ways. I mean, you could read that about the Irish or Norwegians or Germans or Italians. But it feels especially acute here for Asians at this time because there was this prejudice as well. There was state sponsored prejudice to say, we don't want you to take jobs from the quote, unquote, real Americans, which meant European descended Americans and immigrants. So even though on the one hand you could say this is kind of a story that any immigrant family could go through and that 9 million immigrants and their progeny were going through, it does have this special circumstance that's important to remember, which is it's in the context of a kind of deeply held racism and xenophobia that was present at the time. So there's the background. How much have things changed in the past 125 years or so? Did you read this as being really rooted in the past or did you view it as. Well, this is a story of immigration. It's. It's still basically relevant for people who are reading it today.
- [47:01]
Mike Palindrome
I think in many or in a good number of Asian community. Asian American communities, this is exactly how it works. Yes. And maybe there are some things in this story that I took a visceral, I had a visceral reaction to because, you know, being Korean American, it's like a sore reminder, some of this stuff. So.
- [47:32]
Jack Wilson
A sore reminder of things within the community or the way that the community is treated by the. Outside of the community?
- [47:39]
Mike Palindrome
Oh, no, within the community.
- [47:41]
Jack Wilson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:42]
Mike Palindrome
With Laura, basically the way Laura is treated. I was identifying with Laura as a, as a Korean American.
- [47:49]
Jack Wilson
Hmm. And the way that they're basically signing her up to marry somebody who would be a good, A good match for her. And good being sort of defined as someone who will. Who hasn't adopted the new ways, but would be a sort of an anchor to the past and to the home country of China.
- [48:14]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah, I mean, it's. It. I. I keep, as I was reading this, I kept telling myself it was written in 1912, because I'm reading this as almost like some parchment you'd find in Pompeii. You know, it's like. Well, it's interesting to, to see the way they thought, but to jump in. Like, the style of it seems to me very dated. And the style of it also seems to be very. I struggle with whether it's very Asian American or very Asian, catered to wider America, to appeal to wider America. Like the Tennyson quoting. I really disliked it, the repetition of the Tennyson. And I can't help thinking that it. The message that I get from the Tennyson, other than the actual message itself, which is, you know, the sadness and regret. But, you know, advice is, we Asian, this Asian couple, they're moved by Tennyson, and they think of Tennyson as this real piece of wisdom. And I felt like it's catered to a white audience, that move.
- [49:57]
Jack Wilson
So it bothered me, and it feels maybe a little too neat that basically you get the idea that the author probably thought, oh, here's a really interesting line. And people come down on different sides of this, Right. So the lines are, tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. And the point of the story is, is that true? Is it better? Or, you know, is that just setting yourself up for heartbreak? And different people can have different versions of it. And here the writer is kind of saying, well, instead of this just being the theme, I will literally put the poem into the story and have people discussing it and debating it. And that way, it'll be kind of an easy way to have to get this theme on the table to show how different people believe in these lines or take them in different ways.
- [51:15]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah. And like, a lot of what happens when you read fiction, that things start to link up, some of them intended by the author and some of them not. Like the bird imagery and reference to spirit lands and even the names themselves, Mr. Spring Fragrance and Mrs. Spring Fragrance. It started to kind of coalesce in my mind as very sentimental. And again, I reminded myself, it was written in 1912 and it was published, so the audience had to be bigger than Asian Americans because there just wasn't enough, I would guess, readership, people able to buy books. And that started to irk me a little bit. You know, I have a problem with sentimentality. Yeah, right.
- [52:11]
Jack Wilson
And kind of some of the criticism that's been levied against Amy Tan, for example, in the Joy Luck Club, that it's. It kind of deals with tropes, that it's what white people want to think that Asian people are about or that Asian culture is about, that there'd be kind of a spirituality, a mysticism, an exoticism, mahjong drinking, oolong tea, things like all the kind of the trappings and the. You know, it feels like it's almost paint by numbers, but for a white audience.
- [52:55]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah. I mean, I, like many authors that I know, her intentions are good. Like, you know, part of my Calculus is, should she get a free pass? Because given her life, her influence, should I overlook her literary style? And I just couldn't. When Mrs. Spring Fragrance writes the letter to her husband.
- [53:26]
Jack Wilson
After she's. While she's visiting, and she kind of deceives him a little bit in the letter.
- [53:33]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah. This reminded me of a conversation I had with my sister. I have an older sister growing up, when I would criticize the dynamic between, well, not only my father and mother, but my father and my sister and me and my sister would have all these excuses, defending him and saying that, you know, he's a good guy and he works hard, and me thinking, like, it's just not enough. And maybe my standards have been westernized and at 15, that they were too high. Maybe I wanted, like, a different kind of father. But this letter is so. I mean, she just is on her knees, her forehead is on the floor in deference. I mean, this letter. And then I know that she's also scheming. So you have this letter, and there's scheming going on. So you get the sense that ultimately he gets to decide. And I think, jumping ahead, we, as the reader get to see him change, and he decides the same way as Mrs. Spring Fragrance. But this letter just kind of drove me crazy.
- [55:01]
Jack Wilson
Even though, like you said, she's scheming. And the idea is she's catering to his expectations and the way he would demand a kind of fealty and obedience and that he needs to be the one who's calling the shots, that it's not up to her to say that she's going to delay her return. And, in fact, she should be close by his side and fetching his slippers and making his dinner and that kind of thing, unless he has explicitly approved it. And we know that she's dodging all of this, but yet she doesn't want him to lose face or for some reason, that's why she's writing this letter that is extraordinarily deferential to him and as if he's the one who gets to make the decision. But she's already made it.
- [55:56]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah. I mean, could this story be published today? I think there'd be some real confusion as to how. What the message was.
- [56:10]
Jack Wilson
Yeah, right.
- [56:11]
Mike Palindrome
Because there's a lot of stuff here that some people would think is a little bit exoticizing. Asia.
- [56:21]
Jack Wilson
Mm. Well, like, an example is Mrs. Spring Fragrance, we learn, has lost two children, but she loves babies anyway. But the phrase is transplant into the spirit land before the completion of even one moon. Now, is that the way that the people in question? Is this Sui Sin Farr basically reporting that this is the way people thought and talked and. Or, you know, so. So that's why it's fair to kind of use that as the language that conveys what she's trying to convey about the character. Or is that Sui Sin Far saying, well, this would be a kind of Asianized way of talking about this. And so I'll put this in to make these characters to kind of capture the flavor of who they were without. But actually, I could just say she had lost two babies, but nevertheless loves babies.
- [57:26]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah. Is she writing in two modes, the Asian mode and the white, the Western mode? I think she wasn't really thinking too much about the way it would be received. I think she was. I think she's a good storyteller, and I think that was one of her colorful touches.
- [57:50]
Jack Wilson
Yeah.
- [57:51]
Mike Palindrome
I think the Tennyson she thought really worked.
- [57:56]
Jack Wilson
Well. And I agree in a lot of ways that it does. I like how she. I get the feeling that Soi Sinfar is very observant and very shrewd and very astute. And she talks about when he asked the student to help him understand the lines of verse. And she says he was a star student at the University of Washington and had not the slightest doubt that he could explain the meaning of all things in the universe. And I get that she's tweaking him. There's a great exchange later where she talks about how this is where the Americans are claiming that they're the protector of Chinese. And then she has the social commentary which is basically saying, don't gaslight us with that. We know what you're doing, and your actions speak louder than any of these slogans. You have that exchange where the neighbor says, I shall call it a high class Chinese stag party. That one. And in spite of his melancholy mood, Mr. Spring Fragrance smiled. Everything is high class in America, he observed. Sure, cheerfully assented the young man. Haven't you ever heard that all Americans are princes and princesses? And just as soon as a foreigner puts his foot upon our shores, he also becomes of the nobility. I mean the royal family. What about my brother in the detention pen? Dryly inquired Mr. Spring Fragrance. So this is, you know. And then the young man is like, nah, you've got me. Well, that's a shame. But understand that we are real Americans. We're up against that even more than you. It's against our principles. Eddie says, I offer the real Americans my consolations that they should be compelled to do that which is against their principles. I like that Sui Sin Farah was able to get this in there and take this on and point the hypocrisy out. If she's writing in a way that caters to white audiences, as we've talked about, and making the characters seem a little bit overly exotic or overly Asianized, so to speak, she's also delivering some hard truths in here.
- [60:10]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah, I mean, I did like this scene where his friend is sort of questioning whether Mrs. Spring Fragrance is up to no good. I think that, and I agree with you, talking about level, the level of assimilation, the level of Americanization. It must have been just groundbreaking in 1912, trying to write about that. There is, though, at the same time, a part of me that makes Asians in this story seem very knowable. And that bothered me. I feel like there's something innocent even when Mrs. Spring Fragrance is scheming. There's something very mythic about her behavior that makes me. Again, this could be my visceral reaction, given my background, but it bothered me that a reader could walk away from this and be like, I understand Chinese Americans now. I didn't before. I've read this, and now I do. Like, great.
- [61:19]
Emma
Mm.
- [61:20]
Mike Palindrome
So I guess when she is scheming, after she writes that letter again, it's 1912. It's date, you know, it's a different time, historical moment. But when she. If she's scheming, if she's writing this letter, I would have liked to see her say, you know, I'm so glad to get away from my husband, to have this moment, to, like, think like a human being. Or maybe I mean, not think like a human being, but to think for myself. Or says something, because she's not as angry as I would like, and he's not as jealous as I would like.
- [61:59]
Jack Wilson
Yeah.
- [61:59]
Mike Palindrome
And I think that that speaks to me, to her far spoon feeding for the audience, the knowability of Asians, which is something that I sort of look for a little bit because I've had encounters in my life where people will be like, oh, you gotta read pachinko. You'll really understand Koreans. What they're like. And I'm like, is that the way you would talk about, like, Crime and Punishment? Like, read Dostoevsky? You really want to understand Russians like that? That's just such a strange way to approach literature that, like, this is the. This is the key to the city, and you want to understand them so that, you know, again, that I think I read probably Asian American literature with an incredibly high standard. Like, I was thinking, like, what would I recommend if someone said to me, like, I want to read some Asian American literature? And I think A Pale View of the Hills by Ishiguro, dealing with World War II. And I think it's because that story is told as a story. It's like a story within a story. It's like a relationship in the present, and it's told about the past. And there are these complex levels of interpretation and remove that I think, is very respectful of just how hard it is to talk about substance so directly. Like, this story is about assimilation and arranged marriage. I mean, it is. It's like an essay topic, right? She turned it into a story, which, again, like I was saying, she's a good storyteller. But, yeah, it's.
- [63:52]
Jack Wilson
Well, there's. There. We haven't really talked about the pivot at the end of section three and into section four. So in addition to this being about the arranged marriage between Laura and Kaitsu, or the marriage between Laura and Kaitsu that is being thwarted by the arranged marriage, there is a pivot here where it then becomes about Mr. And Mrs. Spring fragrance and their marriage. And so there's a moment where it begins to look like Mrs. Spring Fragrance, in trying to help Laura find a marriage filled with love, might screw up her own marriage. You know, it reminded me. I don't know if you're familiar with Fiddler on the Roof. Have you watched that? Or watched that lately? So you know Tevye. You probably know the general story, but basically it's. Tevye is. He's holding to old ways in this Jewish village in Russia where he lives. And he's got these five daughters. And the oldest one marries for love, not with the match. She marries a tailor or an assistant tailor. And the second daughter then also doesn't marry according to the match. She marries a student who has kind of wild ideas, and she's not going to stay at home. And each of these daughters is marrying someone who is increasingly a departure from Tevye's expectations. The third daughter then marries a Russian who's not even Jewish. And so he's watching all of this happen. And the musical starts out with tradition as the big song. And then he's gradually seeing that. That the traditions are not holding. And he has to kind of let them go and let his daughters marry for love. And in the middle of all of that, he and his wife Golda have this duet about. He sings, do you love me? And she's astonished by the question. And she says, do I what? And it's such a beautiful little duet. And it always kind of stuck with me that even though all of the energy in the musical and in life really is about young people getting married, but looking at the relationship that older people have, people who have been married for 10 years and 20 years and 30 years and 50 years, there's something that gets overlooked about that. And it's also this beautiful side of humanity, of people looking at and saying, well, what have we done with our lives? We've raised these kids, we've been very busy, we've worked. We've shared all of these experiences together. But we got started out and we were just thrown together, and do we really love each other? And that's the part of the story that I kind of liked in this story, Mrs. Spring Fragrance. And I don't know if it's too sentimental or if I like that it was comforting. It kind of reminded me of Maghre books, where, you know, I love when Maghre and Mrs. Margre are at home and it's quiet and they're kind of gently reminding each other of things, and you see the real affection there, and everything is kind of calmed down. And you see this. This wonderful little domestic scene with the two of them. And it made me feel like that I enjoyed that part of it. And I guess I felt like when Mrs. Spring fragrance was going off on her own and doing her own things and deferring to him, I felt like Sway Sin Far was kind of saying, look, even in comfortable relationships, even in relationships where there's a lot of love and respect and affection, the women here are still struggling with the patriarchy. Even when they're independent, even if they're working, even if they're outside the home, they still have these ties of these expectations. And that's part of the culture. And that's worth noting and conveying to you as well. But it sounds like you saw it more as maybe not doing enough to make that distinction clear between what actually was and what should be.
- [68:40]
Mike Palindrome
I admit I want more agency out of these characters, and that's me sitting in 2025 and probably being angrier and jealous and wanting to see that from the characters. There are lines I focused in this that I don't know why they bothered me so much, but they did. Like Mr. Spring Fragrance slept not that night. This is in Sector 4. The next morning, he ate. Not three days and three nights without sleep and food went by. And again, that's just one. It's not possible.
- [69:19]
Jack Wilson
It's a long time.
- [69:21]
Mike Palindrome
Two to what am I supposed to take from that other than he is such a stoic, repressed, quiet leader. And these are tropes, Asian tropes, that I think white colleagues in offices really believe today that, you know, they don't want to. They don't want to speak up. They want to work in their cubicle three days, three nights without sleep and food, and they're capable of it. And that line, these lines really bothered me because it made me feel like there's something guileless about him and like the complexity that's in him. And again, you know, I think I'm asking almost novel type demands on a short story, but I think it would have been even. There are parts of the lines from this story that bothered me so much if they had been deleted, it would have been better.
- [70:38]
Jack Wilson
Well, it also sounds like you're responding to that in a way. Roger Ebert used to say this about movie plots where it would drive him crazy, where the whole movie is hinging on something where if two characters would just say one thing to each other, the whole plot would explode. You know, the reason is, is just because two people can't just ask one question or, or explain one thing, and instead the, you know, the story kind of spins out of this failure to communicate something very basic to each other.
- [71:18]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah, I mean, that lack of what's the environment that keeps people from speaking. That's a really good thing to point out because when Mrs. Spring Fragrance writes that letter, that's a communication that's permitted in their marriage. Saying something like, well, I'm exploring a way for Laura to get the person she loves, you know, that would subvert Mr. Spring Fragrance's role in the family as leader. Mrs. Spring Fragrance is not allowed to say it out loud, but she can put in a letter that she's running around that she really honors him. And it's a plot point on one level, but on another level, it speaks to the incredible power of patriarchy in Asian society and Asian American society where. And I think a lot of white readers probably will not know this. In my household and in many of my friends households who are Asian American, the wife, your mother does not speak. You only your voice is subsumed. But you know, how the way Trump voters say like, you know, the wives say like they vote the way their husbands tell them to, and Democrats are shocked. That's par for the course with many Asian American households where not only voting, but speaking at the table. So when I this story that kind of subterfuge by Mrs. Spring Fragrance, which is admirable as a plot point. The flip side to that is the powerful patriarchy and repression that is not commented on. Like, they don't say, like, Mr. Spring fragrance is actually pretty indifferent in his own way until his friend prompts him.
- [73:21]
Jack Wilson
Yeah, right. Hey, by the way, that sounds like her excuse is kind of flimsy. And then he feels. It's not like he cares. It's that he feels like, well, should I be offended by this? Should I view this as something that is a transgression against my honor?
- [73:41]
Mike Palindrome
I would love Mr. Spring Fragrance to stare in the mirror and say, like, do I fucking care? Do I care about this? Like, that would have been a great moment, because I think a lot of patriarchs in that era and today really don't care. Like, they want to know, are you married? Are you divorced? Like, this is the way. Sometimes I would hear conversations with Asian Americans, my friends, parents. It would literally be like, anybody die? Anybody get married? It's like, that's what I care about. Like, I don't care about. Someone's in love, someone is happy, is engaged. Like, is there going to be some movement, maneuvering?
- [74:22]
Jack Wilson
They've been frustrated for the last 20 years.
- [74:26]
Mike Palindrome
Someone went away for a week like that. You would never get that kind of detail. I remember asking once, my father, like, oh, why did you go back to Korea in the 70s? And he was like, why do you want to know? I'd be like, it's kind of an interesting detail. Like, you went. You went back to Korea for a month from New York. And he was like, yeah, we didn't like America, so I explored moving back to Korea. So I went there for a month, and I was like, this is pretty interesting. And he was like, what? Why do you care about that? We live here now. I thought that was his triage of anecdotes was fascinating. And what bored me versus what interested me. And what interested me were weddings, funerals, who was rich, whether someone had a medical degree. And what he thought bored me were everything else. Like, the good stuff.
- [75:28]
Jack Wilson
Right? It's like you're saying there is this feeling that the happy ending we get here. I mean, aside from the jade stone pendant, which struck me as being. That was. To me, that was the real kind of outdated clunker in the story that the jade stone pendant is kind of to wrap everything up in a neat bow. It felt to me a little bit O. Henryish rather than James Joyce. And an epiphany where an epiphany can be enough. You don't need to have this plot device of the jade stone pendant and symbolizing kind of where they are in their relationship. But aside from that, the happy ending is kind of like the. Mr. Spring Fragrance respects and admires Mrs. Spring Fragrance. He'll tolerate and understand her machinations in order to try to promote love among young people. And he's willing to overlook any. Any little slights or anything along the way because he's big enough and generous enough to be able to do that. And he sort of admires her moxie. And yet all of this is in the framework of that patriarchy, that they're all playing by those rules. They're playing within that system and according to that game. And he's maybe a more tolerating version of it, but he's still a version of it. The patriarchy is still very firmly in place.
- [77:01]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah. I mean, I wonder if there's going to be some critical readership of her because there's so much to unpack. And even if I didn't like this story, I do think that it is. Yeah. This preserved historical record.
- [77:22]
Jack Wilson
Right, Right. And she's smart enough and good enough as a writer and observant enough. And there's enough in here that you don't feel like she's, you know, like. Like stumbling into, like a white per. Like a white actor who's wearing blackface or something, where you. You just think this is. This is. So all we have to say here is that this was just wrong. There's enough here where the themes and the ideas. It's rich for analysis.
- [77:58]
Mike Palindrome
Yeah. I mean, it's. To her credit. I just started reading the second story.
- [78:06]
Jack Wilson
What did you think?
- [78:08]
Mike Palindrome
I was definitely enjoying it more because my outdated the screen I had and my visceral reaction, it being too Asian or for a white audience. That screen was lowered slightly. So maybe I should read more of her.
- [78:27]
Jack Wilson
So she was winning you over a little bit.
- [78:30]
Mike Palindrome
I mean, she weaves good stories.
- [78:34]
Jack Wilson
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So where do we turn to these days for stories of young people in love? Is it Netflix or TikTok? Where do you think. Where do you think people can get a story like this today?
- [78:53]
Mike Palindrome
Well, I've been rereading Norwegian Wood by Murakami, which is, you know, a really good love story. I've been rereading Lolita, which is a different kind of love story. We did watch Challengers, that tennis love triangle story.
- [79:19]
Jack Wilson
Right.
- [79:20]
Mike Palindrome
So I'm always on the lookout for good love stories. I think this was a novel, actually. But they turned it into a movie called One Day. And the novel, I never read the novel, but it was about two people at Oxford who are there together, don't fall in love, but then become good friends on the night of graduation. And so they agree to basically meet no matter what happens one day a year. And they do it for, I think, 20 years. It's a bit of a contrived setup, but I think it really works.
- [79:58]
Emma
Okay.
- [79:58]
Jack Wilson
And I will put in a plug for Crash Landing on youn, which is a K drama I have now watched twice all the way through.
- [80:07]
Mike Palindrome
Oh, wow.
- [80:08]
Jack Wilson
And I would watch it a third time.
- [80:11]
Mike Palindrome
Okay. I had recommended at least once crash landing.
- [80:17]
Jack Wilson
Crash landing on you. Okay. And I would also recommend that people check out some more Sui Sin Far. I think there's some richness there. And like you said, her life story and just who she was at the time that she was writing probably makes it worth exploring her in a little more detail, even if one's initial response is as negative as yours was.
- [80:44]
Mike Palindrome
Agreed.
- [80:45]
Jack Wilson
Okay, Mike, thanks as always, for joining me on the history of literature.
- [80:49]
Mike Palindrome
Thanks, Jack.
- [80:56]
Jack Wilson
Okay, There we go. Mrs. Spring Fragrance, Spice, Waste and Fire and Reaction to Mrs. Spring Fragrance by Mike Palindrome. My thanks to Mike, as always, for joining me. I think our next two are going to be Hawthorne and Fitzgerald. We play the hits, don't we? Speaking of which, don't miss next week when we dive into the lives and works of Dylan Thomas and Fernando Pessoa with a couple of fabulous guests. And then start your engines. We're going to be your Henry James engines. We're going to be exploring, Exploring the Jolly Corner by Henry James. We'll do an annotated reading of that. We have Marianne Moore, George Simenone, Russian poetry, Gatsby turns 100, apocalyptic literature. Many more good things on the horizon. So please do subscribe and stay tuned for those. I'm Jack Wilson. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time.
- [81:54]
Mike Palindrome
Sa.