The History of Literature Podcast
Episode 694: Apocalyptic Literature (with Dorian Linsky) | My Last Book with Charles Baxter
Host: Jacke Wilson
Release Date: April 10, 2025

Introduction: The Legacy of George Orwell

In the opening segment of Episode 694, host Jack Wilson delves into the personal legacy of George Orwell through the eyes of his 80-year-old son, Richard Blair. Orwell, born Eric Blair, remains a towering figure in literature, known for his incisive critiques of totalitarianism and his seminal works like 1984 and Animal Farm. Richard shares poignant memories and reflections on his father's life and enduring influence.

Key Highlights:

• Orwell's Human Side: Richard reminisces about a cherished photograph of Orwell with him as a child, highlighting the personal joys Orwell experienced despite his struggles. (04:35)

  "Orwell is looking down, proud papa, delighted by this happy-looking little one, big grin on his face."

• Family Struggles and Legacy: Richard discusses the challenges of inheriting Orwell's literary legacy and the family's financial hardships, despite the success of Orwell's works. (06:45)

  "Richard says, 'I was just the keeper. The ordinary son of an extraordinary father.'"

• Orwell's Personal Battles: The episode touches upon Orwell's battle with tuberculosis, his commitment to the working class, and his active participation in the Spanish Civil War, which profoundly influenced his writings. (08:50)

  "He crawled down coal mines and wrote about that."

Interview with Dorian Linsky: Exploring Apocalyptic Literature

The core of the episode features an in-depth conversation with Dorian Linsky, author of Everything Must Go. The Stories We Tell about the End of the World. Linsky examines the prevalence and evolution of apocalyptic themes in literature, uncovering the psychological and societal factors driving authors and readers toward these narratives.

Key Discussions:

The Human Fascination with Apocalypse

Linsky explores why apocalyptic stories are a perennial favorite, suggesting that they reflect deep-seated human anxieties about mortality and societal collapse.

"Anticipating the end of the world is humanity's oldest pastime." (15:12)

Chronocentrism and Perceived Decline

The conversation delves into chronocentrism—the belief that one's own era is uniquely pivotal or deteriorating. Linsky posits that this mindset fuels the endless cycle of apocalyptic storytelling.

"People tend to think that the time they live in is untenable and that somehow it must all come crashing down." (19:20)

Shift from Divine to Human Responsibility

A significant shift in apocalyptic literature is the move from divine retribution to human-induced catastrophe. Linsky attributes this transition to advancements in understanding science and technology, making humanity the primary agent of potential doom.

"The atom bomb particularly introduces this sense that if the world was to end, it would be our fault." (46:25)

Varieties of Apocalyptic Narratives

Linsky categorizes apocalyptic literature into several themes:

• Collapse of Civilization: The most recurring theme, offering rich storytelling opportunities about societal breakdown and human resilience. (29:31)
• Total Demolition: Less common in fiction due to its definitive ending but prevalent in films. (30:19)
• Christian Apocalypse: Focused on spiritual and eternal consequences post-apocalypse. (32:39)

Humor in Apocalyptic Fiction

Contrary to the bleakness often associated with apocalypse stories, Linsky highlights the presence of satire and comedy, which provide relief and critical commentary on human behavior during crises.

"There's definitely room for satire and there's definitely room for humor even in novels that seem quite heavy." (48:30)

Personal Reflections and Hope

Linsky concludes by emphasizing the importance of maintaining hope and appreciation for life despite apocalyptic narratives. He underscores that recognizing our mortality can lead to a more profound appreciation of existence.

"If you say that we're all doomed, that makes you a very serious, clear-eyed person. Whereas I think it might make you complicit in the worst happening." (53:11)

Interview with Charles Baxter: Choosing the Last Book

In the latter part of the episode, Charles Baxter, an acclaimed author known for his award-winning novels and short stories, shares his heartfelt perspective on selecting his final book to read before death. This segment provides a contrasting, more personal take on literature's role in confronting mortality.

Key Insights:

The Desire to Die Laughing

Baxter articulates his wish to have a comedy as his last read, inspired by the character Stubb from Moby Dick who embraces the unknown with laughter.

"I would like to die laughing. And I would like to have a comedy of some kind on my bedside." (56:22)

Enduring Nature of Comedy

Baxter discusses the timelessness of certain comedic works and their ability to resonate across different ages, emphasizing joyous laughter over mean-spirited humor.

"The laughter of delight, kind of the laughter of recognition... It's a kind of happy laughter that's a sort of comedy I really love." (59:38)

Philosophical Reflections on Death

He reflects on the notion that approaching death with laughter can create a serene and positive transition, contrasting societal expectations of solemnity.

"The idea of arriving on the other side and finding that people are laughing, that seems like paradise to me." (60:52)

Concluding Thoughts and Future Episodes

Jack Wilson wraps up the episode by thanking guests Dorian Linsky and Charles Baxter. He teases upcoming topics and guests, including discussions on Mark Twain, Jane Austen, and Emily Dickinson, promising a diverse exploration of literary history.

"We have some great topics and guests and everything else coming up. What's on our calendar? Let's see. How about Mark Twain and Folk Tales from Iceland..." (62:25)

Notable Quotes:

• Dorian Linsky: "Anticipating the end of the world is humanity's oldest pastime." (15:12)
• Dorian Linsky: "People tend to think that the time they live in is untenable and that somehow it must all come crashing down." (19:20)
• Dorian Linsky: "The atom bomb particularly introduces this sense that if the world was to end, it would be our fault." (46:25)
• Charles Baxter: "I would like to die laughing. And I would like to have a comedy of some kind on my bedside." (56:22)
• Charles Baxter: "The idea of arriving on the other side and finding that people are laughing, that seems like paradise to me." (60:52)

Listen to Episode 694 on The History of Literature Podcast to delve deeper into the intricate world of apocalyptic narratives and the personal reflections on literature's role in our understanding of the world's end.