702 Writing in the World of Jane Austen (with D.G. Rampton) | Disaster at the Book Festival!

Summary

The History of Literature Podcast - Episode 702 Summary

Title: Writing in the World of Jane Austen (with D.G. Rampton) | Disaster at the Book Festival!

Release Date: May 15, 2025
Host: Jacke Wilson
Guest: D.G. Rampton, Australia's Queen of Regency Romance

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1. Disaster at the Book Festival

Timestamp: 01:05 – 15:23

In this segment, host Jack Wilson recounts the unfortunate events surrounding the literary festival, "A Million Lives," held in Baltimore. Initially marketed as a grand event aiming to attract five to six hundred attendees, the festival disastrously failed to meet expectations, drawing only about eighty attendees upon the arrival of the authors.

Key Points:

• Expectation vs. Reality: Authors were promised a thriving event with ample opportunities to connect with readers. However, logistical issues quickly emerged.

• Organizational Failures: The organizer faced several setbacks, including:

  • Venue Problems: The absence of a DJ and the sudden relocation of hotel accommodations from the Hilton to a Day's Inn due to financial constraints.
  • Communication Breakdown: Issues such as shattered badges, lack of signage, and unresponsiveness from venue staff left authors scrambling.
  • Event Staff No-Shows: The organizer failed to appear, leaving guests without support or guidance.

• Author Reactions: Frustration among authors was palpable. One highlighted her dependence on such events to sustain her livelihood, emphasizing the significance of festivals in their careers.

• Community Resilience: Despite the chaos, the literary community showcased resilience. Attendees adapted by creating impromptu solutions, such as:

  • Making Do with Limited Resources: A security guard transformed himself into a makeshift DJ using a portable Bluetooth speaker, bringing a semblance of festivity to the somber gathering ([15:23] Jack Wilson).

Notable Quotes:

• "Everything that can go wrong is going wrong." – Jack Wilson ([15:23])

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2. Interview with D.G. Rampton on Regency Romance

Timestamp: 17:47 – 47:38

D.G. Rampton, hailed as Australia's queen of Regency romance, joins Jack Wilson to delve into the intricacies of writing within the Jane Austen-inspired Regency period. Their conversation traverses the influences of classic literature, the evolution of romantic novels, and the balance between historical accuracy and contemporary storytelling.

Key Topics & Insights:

a. Introduction to Jane Austen and Georgette Heyer

• Jane Austen's Influence: Rampton discusses her initial introduction to Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" during her school years, highlighting the language's elegance and the author's keen observation of human behavior ([17:58]).

• Georgette Heyer's Legacy: Heyer is portrayed as a pivotal figure who meticulously researched the Regency era, effectively establishing the Regency romance genre. Rampton emphasizes Heyer's dedication to authenticity, which paved the way for modern Regency romance enthusiasts ([01:05]).

Notable Quotes:

• "The way she described the language and explained it just really captured my imagination." – D.G. Rampton ([17:58])
• "She was a force of nature. She wrote a ton of books, historical romances, thrillers." – Jack Wilson ([01:05])

b. Evolution of Language and Writing Styles

• Austen vs. Modern Authors: Rampton notes the stark contrast between Austen's eloquent and witty language and today's more straightforward prose. She mentions, "We've lost some of the beauty of the English language," emphasizing the importance of maintaining linguistic charm in her writing ([20:46]).

• Adaptation for Modern Readership: While striving for historical authenticity, Rampton acknowledges the necessity to simplify sentence structures to cater to contemporary readers’ preferences for faster-paced narratives ([28:43]).

Notable Quotes:

• "It's all because it's funny and it's observant and it's sharp and it's shrewd." – Jack Wilson ([19:01])
• "I definitely have to adapt a little bit. And my language isn't as complex as Jane Austen or Georgette Heyer." – D.G. Rampton ([28:43])

c. Romantic Elements of the Regency Era

• Banter and Character Interactions: The witty exchanges between characters, reminiscent of Austen's protagonists, are highlighted as a cornerstone of Regency romance. Rampton integrates this into her narratives to create engaging and relatable dialogues ([21:31]).

• Sensuality Through Subtlety: Clothing and social norms of the Regency period, such as the allure of bare ankles or the removal of gloves, serve as plot devices to heighten romantic tension and maintain a sense of propriety ([22:24]).

Notable Quotes:

• "The showing of an ankle can suddenly become so sensual." – Jack Wilson ([23:06])
• "It's fun, right? It can be really romantic as well." – D.G. Rampton ([22:02])

d. Balancing Historical Accuracy with Modern Expectations

• Strong Female Characters: Rampton expresses her passion for crafting strong female protagonists who, despite societal limitations of the era, exhibit resilience and individuality ([35:47]).

• Modern Adaptations: In her contemporary romance, "Earl Tangled with Star," Rampton blends Regency elements with modern settings, adapting themes to resonate with today's audience while maintaining historical roots ([39:37]).

Notable Quotes:

• "I'm creating a romantic world. So even though I do try to be as historically accurate as I can, at the end of the day, I want to write a good story." – D.G. Rampton ([36:59])
• "It's historical fantasy. It's like the exuberant American. What would you call it? Like an interpretation of English history." – D.G. Rampton ([43:13])

e. Perception of Regency Era in Popular Culture

• Austen and Heyer's Hypothetical Views: Rampton speculates that both Austen and Heyer might disapprove of modern portrayals that deviate from the original essence, particularly the overt sexuality and simplified language in contemporary adaptations like "Bridgerton" ([41:53]).

• Fantasy vs. Historical Accuracy: Acknowledging the fantasy element in modern Regency romances, Rampton believes that while these adaptations are enjoyable, they don't fully capture the prudishness and linguistic sophistication of the original era ([43:13]).

Notable Quotes:

• "They would probably have been appalled at the language and the sexualization that's happened of their period." – D.G. Rampton ([41:53])
• "It's all fantasy. You're watching it thinking, it's a fantasy." – D.G. Rampton ([43:31])

f. Imaginary Lunch with Austen and Heyer

• Creative Visualization: Rampton engages in a lighthearted segment where she imagines having lunch with Jane Austen and Georgette Heyer. This exercise reveals her admiration and the contrasting personalities of the two literary figures ([43:31]).

Notable Quotes:

• "Jane Austen would be more reserved and observing what is going on." – D.G. Rampton ([45:01])
• "She wouldn't be putting herself forward in a big group, but one on one." – D.G. Rampton ([46:38])

g. Series and Works

• Regency Goddesses Series & Taming of the Dukes: Rampton discusses her notable series that blend historical romance with contemporary sensibilities, appealing to a broad range of readers ([47:10]).

• Contemporary Romance: Her contemporary novel, "Earl Tangled with Star," merges modern elements with Regency themes, showcasing her versatility as an author ([39:05]).

Notable Quotes:

• "They have to adapt a little bit to make it more readable and make it more fast paced." – D.G. Rampton ([28:43])
• "It's like, I'm creating a romantic world... make people laugh and feel good." – D.G. Rampton ([37:58])

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Conclusion

Episode 702 of "The History of Literature" offers a deep dive into the challenges of literary events and the intricate world of Regency romance writing. Jack Wilson skillfully navigates between narrating the unfortunate book festival disaster and engaging in a rich discussion with D.G. Rampton, shedding light on the enduring legacy of Jane Austen and Georgette Heyer. Listeners gain valuable insights into the balance between historical fidelity and modern storytelling, the evolution of romantic literature, and the vibrant community that sustains literary passion despite setbacks.

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• Podcast Website: historyofliterature.com
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• Support the Show: patreon.com/literature | historyofliterature.com/donate
• Contact: [e-mail]

Transcript

[Jack Wilson]

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[Jack Wilson]

Hello. Coming up on the podcast, we talk to Australia's queen of Regency romance. What draws her to the world of Jane Austen and what's it like to invent her own characters and put them there? Plus, a literary festival falls apart but shows the indomitable spirit of book lovers. Coming up today on the History of Literature Foreign Here we go. Welcome to the podcast. My name is Jack Wilson and I will be your host today for the 702nd time, I guess. Well, Mike. Well, Mike did a couple of solo episodes on David Foster Wallace, didn't he? But I think I introduced even those. So 702. A lot of episodes, let's put it that way. We start today with some news from Baltimore and this could not be more heartbreaking. Actually, I'm going to interrupt myself because I forgot I need to tell you about Georgette Heyer, or Heyer. You might be familiar with her, but maybe not. I confess I wasn't. But she was a popular author. She's worth knowing about before we talk to our guest today because she was an influence. Georgette Heyer was a 20th century English novelist who wrote books set in the world of Jane Austen, the Regency period. Jane Austen was a great world creator, no question. But her the world she was creating was based on her world, her contemporary world. The people she knew and talked to, the things she saw and did. The time period was the time period in which she lived. Georgette Heyer. I say Heyer in hair. Actually, her family originally pronounced it Heyer, but at some point they switched it to hair. I know when they switched it, they switched it during the First World War because they wanted to sound less German. Let's go with higher Georgette, Higher. We think of she was 100 years after Jane Austen. She was writing, but she traveled back in time to set her books in the time period of Jane Austen. We think of this as a commonplace thing to do now. And maybe it was always obvious and self evident. It's certainly not the first historical novel. We've got Tolstoy for that. He wasn't even the first, but he's an obvious example. But Georgette Heyer was so good and so thorough in her research that she essentially established the Regency romance as a thing. Everybody loves and loved Jane Austen even then. Ever since Jane Austen was published, people have loved that period of time. But to write a new book and set it in the Regency period and to do it so well, that was a Georgette Heyer thing. She kind of started it. She was a force of nature. She wrote a ton of books, historical romances, thrillers. A lot of books set in the Regency period, some in other periods as well. She set books in the world of William the Conqueror. All was meticulously researched. The publishers would go to her if they had a question about the period. She also wrote detective books. She became hugely popular, selling something like 100,000 copies of each book in hardcover and 500,000 copies in paperback. The absence of long or serious reviews never worried her, said her biographer. What mattered was the fact that her stories sold in ever increasing numbers. Authors want to sell their books. A tale as old as time, which returns us to Baltimore and some heartbreaking news coming from there. Last month, authors who were hoping to sell their books at a book festival called A Million Lives. But they weren't hoping to have a million lives in attendance. They were hoping to have five or six hundred people joining them. Readers who would come and meet the author. The organizers had set it up. They pitched it to authors who were going to be to come and be part of the festivities at a convention center. You've maybe been to these or seen them. Authors set up tables to sell their books and there are panel discussions and a ball. Just a marvelous time will be had by all, I'm sure, was the promise. And one popular dark romance author said, I make my whole living on events. This is my lifeblood. And she was. She's a well known person in the field. So she was going to be a featured author, which meant she'd receive $1,000 and a free hotel room. At the Hilton. And so others followed. They said, there's a stamp of approval for this thing. We've never heard of this festival. A million lives. But we've got a couple of authors we've heard of who are going. So a hundred authors signed up, ready to go. You can picture these things, right? The authors who stand by their table a little awkwardly with a nice poster of them and their books flanking on the sides and boxes of books under the table ready to be sold. Authors as merchants. We all got to make a living somehow. And readers get to smile and shake hands and pose for a photo with the authors and hang out with their friends who also love to read books by these authors. That was the plan. That was the hope. That was the. The dream. The reality was more nightmare than dream. A million lives. Cracks in the dream appeared early. The DJ. No DJ. The DJs in the hospital, said the event organizer. And oh, by the way, to my featured authors, we're moving the hotel from the Hilton to A Day's Inn. Huh? Why? Well, because the Hilton's not returning my phone calls, said the organizer. Okay, have you ever heard that? Have you ever heard of that? From a hotel? They just don't call you back. Usually they like to call people who are planning to spend money with them. She said, well, my block of rooms didn't sell out. I owe them six figures. Cracks in the dream, she assured everyone. Don't worry, we've sold a lot of tickets. How many? It's in the high 500s. Low 600s, she said. So the authors turned up a hundred of them. They said, okay, we're looking for the wristbands and the badges. She said, ah, no badges. Actually, the badges arrived, shattered. Writers started to get worried. It didn't seem like a whole lot was going on at this convention center. And there were a lot of excuses. That featured writer I told you about, she got to her hotel. It hadn't been paid for. So she calls the organizer. The organizer says, my credit card was declined. My. My identity's been stolen. Okay, another excuse. They go to the convention center. Nobody's there. There's no event staff or volunteers. The organizer hasn't even shown up. There's no signage. A security guard says, well, there was a sign, but the tables, the way they were laid out, it violated the fire code, so we had to reorganize them. And so we threw out the map, which was no good anymore. Well, what about a welcoming sign? Cough silence. Here's my table, says a tattoo artist. But there's no electrical outlet anywhere nearby. Kind of hard for me to work my equipment. The response well, can you borrow a battery pack maybe? So the tattoo artist makes do. There's a content room which they open up the door. It's just a bare room with a gray carpet. There's nothing inside. This is horrible, bad stuff. Finally, the event organizer shows up and some attendees get there. It's not 600, it's more like 80. 80 readers for a hundred write for 100 authors. The content room is suddenly shut down. The organizer says there's a mechanical failure in there. Everything that can go wrong is going wrong. The organizer, who frankly was kind of brave for even showing up at this thing, but she seems to have an excuse for everything. Out of a panel on LGBTQ diversity, the moderator stood up, said he had to take a phone call, left and never came back. And someone later recognized the moderator as the event organizer's husband. This couple, this couple is really throwing quite a festival. It seems like this was either a scam from the get go or what seems more likely an idea, a little legitimate plan, a hope that was just horribly executed. Maybe things started to go wrong and just snowballed. Maybe the organizers were in over their heads a little bit. She did apologize by video. She claims that she's going to issue refunds to everyone. She still claims she sold five or six hundred tickets, but I don't think anyone is holding their breath that they will be made whole. But here's the ray of hope. Here's the sign that people who love books enough to write them and read them and go stay at a hotel and celebrate them for a weekend. Readers who want to mingle with authors and vice versa. Here's the sign that these are some of the best and heartiest people you'll ever meet. Even when everything falls apart, here's what happens. This is from the Guardian newspaper. Quote despite the fiasco, Alyssa McCoy, who owns a business selling book themed drinkware and apparel, was set on attending the Saturday Night Ball to celebrate her birthday. That weekend, she and her friends got ready together in one of their hotel rooms while watching Twilight. I was always going to the ball. I loved my dress, she said. But when they arrived at the same brightly lit conference room is the event, there was no decor or music, a small cash bar and a plate of macarons, the only signs of a party. End quote. Is there anything more pathetic than someone who brings her dress, who gets ready together with friends while watching Twilight on her birthday no less, and then shows up at the brightly lit Conference room only to find a cash bar and a plate of macarons. Who even brought those macarons? What a sorry attempt at a ball. Was that the organizer? No lighting, no decorations, no music. So what do you do if you're a book lover who finds herself wearing a dress with some friends and waiting for a ball? You break down? Do you cry? Do you run outside and scream at the stars? Maybe try to find the event organizer, pin her up against the wall and demand justice? Well, back to the article. This is what they did as they sat around in chairs at the ball. The security guard went home to retrieve his portable Bluetooth speaker. They named him DJ Steve and took turns playing music from their phones. The security guard went home to retrieve his portable Bluetooth speaker. Imagine what's going through his mind. These people need music. These people in their dresses at the ball are here for a party. Well, damn it, there's no party here. But let me run home and bring a little party back with me. A portable Bluetooth speaker. Security guard Steve ran home to get and he transformed himself into DJ Steve. What a hero. Well, ballrooms and music. Jane Austen knows a thing or two about those, of course, as does our guest. Today, let's travel back in time with a contemporary author who is at home in the world of balls and romance and women of a certain age who had better get married before they're all used up at the. At the ancient age of what, 20, 22? 23. But luckily the officers are going to be stationed in town this season, so there's a bit of hope for these incipient old maids, these 20 year olds who are almost over the hill. I love this world. And in Australia, DG Rampton loves it too.

[Alan Sisto]

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[Sean Marchese]

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[Alan Sisto]

Every week here at the Prancing Pony Podcast, along with Sean or other co hosts, I explore the works of J.R.R. tolkien, author of the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, bringing along lots of pop culture references, plenty of nerd humor, and the occasional bad pun.

[Sean Marchese]

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[Jack Wilson]

Neighborhood Starbucks to enjoy free refills of hot or iced brewed coffee or tea. So stop in and stay a while. Your free refill is ready at Starbucks. Visit Starbucks.com refills for details. This Mailchimp horrific jingle is brought to you by Mailchimp Mailchimp your marketing with AI and more advanced automations to connect to your style store. Mailchimp your marketing and boost your clicks. Multi channel campaigns now with SMS Lights lit mailchimp you're marketing today with the number one AI powered email marketing and automation platform Intuit. Mailchimp number one based on publicly available data on competitors customers. Plans vary. SMS available as add on visit mailchimp.com okay, joining me now is the woman known as Australia's queen of Regency romance, best selling author, DG Rampton. She's here today to discuss the Regency period, the novels of Jane Austen and Georgette Heyer and her own forays into that world. DG Rampton, welcome to the history of literature.

[DG Rampton]

Thank you for having me on, Jack.

[Jack Wilson]

So let's start with Jane Austen. Where were you in life when you started reading her works?

[DG Rampton]

Oh, I was at school in that really interesting early teenage period when we're all very angsty and we're thinking about romance and our emotions are all heightened. And my wonderful English teacher introduced me to Pride and Prejudice in class.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah, the gateway drug.

[DG Rampton]

Exactly. The way she described the language and explained it just really captured my imagination. And I really adored the eloquence of Jane Austen. No one obviously spoke like that anymore. So I just fell in love with the the beauty of the English language at that point. And I was hooked basically. From then on I read everything she'd ever written and from Jane Austen it was a small Georgette Heyer. And I devoured everything she wrote as well. And at the end of it I'm like, oh my God, there's nothing else to read. No one writes like this anymore.

[Jack Wilson]

Well that's interesting that you say that, because the eloquence of Jane Austen, it isn't just. I want to be precise about the type of eloquence, because it strikes me that she is kind of unusual in that her eloquence isn't just for the sake of formality or the sake of tradition or wanting to be. You know, there's nothing pompous about it. There's nothing grandiose about it or grandiloquent. It's all because it's funny and it's observant and it's sharp and it's shrewd, and it is a kind of joy in language. But it is also, at the same time, a joy in pointing out human foibles and setting up scenarios. And it feels like a. A very inviting kind of eloquence.

[DG Rampton]

Oh, completely. It's. You feel like it's part of her language, like she doesn't need to try hard to come up with this eloquence. It's just part of her. And I think a lot of that's got to do with how her brain was trained, you know, or the literature that she herself would have read.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah.

[DG Rampton]

To have got to that point where she could then write it. We don't study that sort of literature anymore. We don't speak with those sentence structures. And I think we've lost some of the beauty of the English language. And there's a poverty to the way that we speak English these days, which they. They were so. In many ways, they were so much better educated than we were. Obviously, you had the different classes, and you had the really, really poor people that didn't go to school, and obviously they didn't have that sort of education. But if you're of the middle classes or above, in some ways, I actually think their education was better than ours is at the moment.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah. Right. And, you know, just as with Romeo and Juliet, and they first start speaking with one another, and they speak in a perfect sonnet, they exchange lines, 14 lines, and it ends up being this sonnet. It's almost like for you to be reading Pride and Prejudice. So much of the fun of that book is when Lizzie and Darcy encounter each other, and they are really going at each other, you know, undermining each other and one upping each other. But they have such a facility with language in this kind of way of. Of giving each other backhanded compliments or veiled insults. And it is just. It's such a fun book to read.

[DG Rampton]

It is. And that banter Just actually hearing you describe it now, I just realized that's what must have sparked my love of banter. And in my own books, I really focus on the banter and very much on the characters and the interactions between them and the dialogue. Because it's fun, right? Like you said, it's fun. It can be really romantic as well. That sort of banter, that sort of love, hate, relationship. Yeah, that's very like. That's a really intuitive comment then. I really like what you said.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay, so was there anything in particular about the Regency era or the particular characters that was appealing to you, or was it the things we've already discussed, that they had this great way of talking and just a kind of reverence for romance that appeals to perhaps a young teenage girl?

[DG Rampton]

Look, that's definitely was part of it. But also the period lends itself to romance. And the clothes, I think, were a lot more flattering on human bodies than they are now. There was still a bit of mystery to the human body. Like just, you know, taking off your glove was seen as very sexy and sensual because women very rarely went barehanded, so there was less skin on display. And so in a way, you can play around with that as an author.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah, it kind of raises the stakes a little bit, right?

[DG Rampton]

It does. The showing of an ankle can suddenly become so sensual.

[Jack Wilson]

And a scandal is always just lurking around the cor. Sort of a misstep. And a scandal is, you know, as a plot device. They're easy, you know, today it might be harder. Well, we can talk about your books when I know you've written some contemporary. Some novels set in the contemporary era, too, but you mentioned Georgette Heyer or Heyer, and I was not as familiar with her. Was that something that was easy for you to find? Was that on your. Your parents bookshelves or anything, or in the library sitting right next to Jane Austen or. How did you discover her?

[DG Rampton]

I think it was not. She wasn't sitting right next to Jane Austen in the library, but I did discover her in the library. Because I was such a voracious reader as a child, I sort of went from shelf to shelf looking for stuff that I could read. And I just came across her one day and I think it was Devil's Cub was my first Georgette Heyer, and I think she wrote that when she was quite young. I think she might have still been in her teens or early twenties, and I was still a teenager, and I. I just loved the romance, the way she. The sort of wittiness of her Romance. And so I just thought, yes, she's actually a worthy successor to Jane Austen. Different, but still wrote about the same period. And still wrote in an intelligent, eloquent way.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah. And she's. In doing a little bit of research on her, she really immersed herself in the era, in the history of it, and in all the customs and the objects and the norms and everything. She did her homework.

[DG Rampton]

Oh, completely. She was very meticulous with her research. And in fact, when I started writing, I didn't need to do a lot of research myself because she had done so much research that you could read her books and. And feel like you lived in the period. And then also around the same time, I don't know if you've heard of Jennifer Kloster, but she came out with a book called Georgette Heyer's Regency World, which is really a reference book that writers can use, or anyone that's interested in that era can use to get a sense of what life was really like. And that informs my stories as well. Like, there's a lot of detail in there that I use. So, yeah, look, I was very lucky. There were women before me that came and did most of the research for me.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah. Right. Now, you said that they were different. How do their novels differ?

[DG Rampton]

Georgette Heyer and Jane Austen. So Jane Austen wrote about her own time, so she wrote in the. Of, like, in the contemporary sense. Like, she. She was writing for people that knew the world that they lived in, so she didn't need to go into a lot of detail about, like, to set the scene. Basically, people knew the norms, they knew, you know, the type of vehicles, the type of houses. When you talked about an area in. In London, like Mayfair, they knew the type of houses that were there. So she didn't have to go into too much explanation to set the scene. Whereas with Georgette Heyer, she wrote 100 years after Jane Austen, and so she really had to set the scene for her readers. And that's where her meticulous detail comes in. And that's why, As a reader 100 years after her, it's just incredible. Like, she really does bring the Regency world to life.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah, well, it seems like for someone like you who wants to write Regency period novels, that would be almost as instructive as reading Jane Austen, that you would sort of see what it's like to have to explain a lot of things to readers who might not be immediately familiar with what it was you were describing.

[DG Rampton]

Exactly. And in fact, in terms of research, like, I've sort of Mentioned Georgette Heyer is actually better than Jane Austen because Jane Austen. Yes.

[Jack Wilson]

Takes it all for granted. Yeah. Right, right.

[DG Rampton]

Yes.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay. So is there a particular work that you might recommend for a listener who wants to see what Georgette Heyer is like?

[DG Rampton]

Oh, my all time favorite Georgette Heyer is called the Grand Sophie. It's. It's really like, it's a masterwork of humor, basically romantic humor. Like, she's done such a. An amazing job with it. The only thing I do have one small gripe. The heroine and hero are cousins, first cousins. And that was acceptable at that time, but now I have to say, okay, they're only cousins by marriage. I can't possibly think of them as cousins by blood because it's just too icky. I just do a little edit in my head as I start reading. Yes. Cousins by marriage.

[Sean Marchese]

Yeah.

[Jack Wilson]

Do you find yourself, as you're writing, making that kind of edit for yourself, knowing that a reader today would react in a certain way? And so even though as much as you might want to be historically faithful and accurate, you can't kind of say something or use a word or something that, you know, readers today would. It would stop them in their tracks.

[DG Rampton]

Yes, there is a little bit of that that goes on because you're writing for your own period.

[Jack Wilson]

Right.

[DG Rampton]

You want your story to get out and you don't want to put readers off. So of course you have to adapt a little bit. And my language isn't. The sentence structure isn't as complex as Jane Austen or Georgette Heyer. It more complex perhaps than what we use normally. But I've had to simplify it a little bit to make it more readable and make it more fast paced, because our brains today are so much more fast paced in how they process information. Like, you can't really slow a book down too much with complex sentence structure.

[Jack Wilson]

Right, Right. Okay. So one last thing I wanted to ask you about Georgette Heyer. I was looking at the Wikipedia entry for her and there was a part of it that really cracked me up. She has an amazing life. I'm going to give a bit of a biography of her before we run the interview. So listeners will have already heard it, but there's a See Also section in Wikipedia where it directs you to three things outside of the Wikipedia page to look up if you want to know more about Georgette Heyer. And one of the three links is a list of works by Georgette Heyer, which makes sense. And then the other two are just words are just single words. And one of them is dandy and the other one is fop. Yeah, fop. So it's dandy, fop and list of works by Georgette Heyer. Is that fair, do you think? Is that doing Georgette Heyer justice?

[DG Rampton]

That's so funny. I didn't know that.

[Jack Wilson]

There are a lot of dandies and fops in there.

[DG Rampton]

She uses, she does use the word dandy. Yes. And fop, you know, like a dandy's don't know if you know who Beau Brummel was.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah.

[DG Rampton]

But he started off this whole fashion for men where it was just black and white and very severe cuts, beautifully tailored jackets, but very simple. Whereas in the 1700s, men wore all sorts of colors and brocades and velvets and it was quite gaudy in some ways. In some ways when Beau Brummel came, I think it was like the Beginning of the 1800s, in the Regency period. He sort of changed all that because he was so beautifully dressed and so classic and understated and ever since men have dressed like that because of him. But he was the original dandy, I guess you could call him, because he really cared about his appearance and he didn't leave the house until he was immaculate. So he would spend hours and hours getting ready. But when he left the house, he knew he was a finished working of art, so he didn't have to fuss or do anything else with his outfit for the rest of the day. So a dandy, I think the term is based off him, but a fop is something a bit more derogatory where it's a man again and he goes to the extremes of fashion where just for the sake of wanting to be different, in shock and draw attention to himself. So it's a slightly more negative term, a fop.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay, let's take a quick break and come back with more from DG Rampton. I know every operating system and have worked with several people from your company. I've been recognized for my past. My team is everything LinkedIn delivers candidates who rise above the rest with an up to date view into shared connections, skills and interests you won't find anywhere else. See why 86% of small businesses who post a job on LinkedIn get a qualified candidate within a day. Post a job for [e-mail] achieve LinkedIn. Your next great hire is here. Listos paraventurarce en la mescla de mayo Ketchup La barbecue que tor del fundo.

[DG Rampton]

De la cajita Hot fudge Sundae Creamy.

[Jack Wilson]

Chili McCrispy Strip Dip Los Nuevos McCrispy strips out in McDonald's. Okay, we're back. So, Diana, when did you start writing novels? And. And when you did, did you immediately know that you wanted to set your work in the Regency period?

[DG Rampton]

Well, I didn't really have a starting date or anything like that. I've been dabbling ever since I left school. I did. I studied engineering and had a sort of call of a serious in inverted commas career. But every so often I just get this overpowering urge to put pen to paper and come up with little phrases and paragraphs and just dabbling, nothing serious. And then when I had my daughter, I thought, well, it's time to do something with all these little snippets that I've been writing. And because I just love the Regency period and I love romance and how much joy it brings to people, it was just a very natural progression in terms of the genre to go into.

[Jack Wilson]

So we've talked a little bit about what it means to try to make sure that you don't lose contemporary readers by. By having a word or something that might have changed its meaning. But I also wanted to ask you, just in general, about how you. What that does for you in terms of character. And I've talked to a lot of writers of historical fiction, especially ones who write about women, and they have to walk this line between how we might want our female protagonist to be in the 21st century and to have viewpoints that might align with ours about the role of women in society. And at the same time, they want to be historically accurate and to not only kind of convey the restrictions and limitations that were placed on women in the historical period, but also the way women themselves might have thought about those things. And how do you walk that line? How do you strike the right balance between historical accuracy and what readers might expect or want from their characters today?

[DG Rampton]

Well, it's definitely a consideration, and I do have to think about it. But having said that, I'm attracted to strong women, strong characters and strong women, even in the Regency, if they had the resources behind them, like a wealthy family or they had wealth themselves, they were allowed to act in different ways compared to the middle class, for example. So I do have some leeway because I do tend to write about the aristocracy. So because they have more resources, more money, in a way, more power, their behavior is more adaptable, let's just say, to our contemporary values.

[Jack Wilson]

Right. Do you ever find yourself with a character and saying that just wouldn't. She wouldn't quite go that far. Or that seems like I'm kind of imposing my own viewpoint on her. Or do you look at characters like the ones in Jane Austen and say they're just as advanced or as progressive or as forward as I am about the role of women and so on?

[DG Rampton]

Yes, and that's true. And there were like, there are always exceptions to the rule, even back then. But I don't worry too much about it, to tell you the truth, because at the end of the day, I'm. I'm not a serious historian trying to get across the exact way it was. I definitely have my rose tinted goggles on and I'm writing in a romantic sense. Right. I'm creating a romantic world. So even though I do try to be as historically accurate as I can, at the end of the day, I want to write a good story. And so if something isn't quite, or it's a little bit over the top, or it's a bit of dramatic license, if you like. For me, if I was more of a serious literary type of author, perhaps I'd be more worried about it. But as a romance author, I'm there to write a good story and make people laugh and feel good. So I'm not too worried about being 100% historically accurate.

[Jack Wilson]

I'm guessing that all of your books are set in England. Does Australia ever come up?

[DG Rampton]

Not in the historical ones. I have written, as you mentioned, a romantic, a rom com, a contemporary rom com, which is set in the beginning in Australia at the Sydney Opera House because my heroine is a classical pianist. But it does end up going back to England because, you know, I lived in England for 14 years. I'm Australian, but I lived in England there a long time. And I just love it. I think I love. I'm such an Anglophile. I love everything to do with their culture and their history. Just the architecture, the manners that. I mean, unfortunately, the manners are being diluted at the moment, so that's going downhill a little bit. But 20, 25 years ago, they still had beautiful manners, and I love all that. So I do tend to set all my books in England.

[Jack Wilson]

Is the novel that you mentioned is that Earl Tangled with Star?

[DG Rampton]

Yes.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay, so I had a question about that. I mean, obviously making a novel set in today's world would change a lot of the details, the clothes, the language, the technology and so on. But I'm wondering if it's also changed the plots and the characterizations. Did you find that there were things that the characters would do in today's world that they might not have done in the Regency period, or did you feel like they were kind of still the same?

[DG Rampton]

A bit of both. I mean, there were. Because I write in that world, in the Regency world, I sort of did adapt it in a way, with Earl Tangled with Star, I adapted the old world with the new world.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah.

[DG Rampton]

However, like, it's still, like, can be jarring for some of my historical romance readers reading my contemporary rom com, because the language is contemporary, there is swearing and there are sexual references. I don't actually write sex scenes, but there are sexual references. So one of my first reviews. Oh, this poor lady, I felt so terrible for her. I got the feeling that she was an elderly lady and she wrote a review that said, filthy language. Filthy. I was actually quite toned down compared to some of the romantic, you know, women's fiction there. And. But because she's so used to reading the historical romances and they're entirely clean. Yeah, well, mine are. Some people write sex scenes, like Julia Quinn would do sex scenes in her, but I don't do that. I just declean historical romance. So it was a bit of a step too far for some of my readers.

[Jack Wilson]

Right, right. Well, I read a description of it and it was intelligent heroines, dashing men and sparkling banter, which seems like that could be any era.

[DG Rampton]

Yes, that's so true. Very adaptable.

[Jack Wilson]

So what do you think? I mean, we kind of live through all of these booms. It seems like there's a Jane Austen boom that started before I was born and it's still continuing now with movies and television series. And it just seems like we have this sort of endless passion for her novels and for this Regency era. What do you think Jane Austen and maybe Georgette Heyer would think of. Of the Regency era as it tends to be portrayed in popular culture? Do you think they'd find it accurate or would they raise their eyebrows or what do you think? Are we getting it right or getting it wrong?

[DG Rampton]

So, yeah, look, that's a really interesting question. So I think both Jane Austen, quite frankly, Jane Austen and George Heyer would be appalled because Jane Austen was quite prudish in some of her letters. We get a sense that she was a bit of a prude. She didn't even like off the shoulder dresses that showed too much skin on women. So this overt sexuality and all the sex scenes in these historical romances, I think she would have been appalled at. And also, like, the language is so dumbed down. And the same with Georgette Heyer. Like, she was very clever and very Witty. And I think we've lost the ability to portray that type of language. So I think both of them would have been appalled. Because of the language and perhaps because of the. Or the sexualization that's happened of their period, women weren't allowed such sexual license as they are now, obviously. So they were a lot more prudish, I guess you could say. So. In that. In that respect, we're not really showing how it was at the time, but at the end of the day, it's all fantasy. Like, when you watch Bridgerton, you don't watch it thinking, oh, this is historically accurate. You're watching it thinking, it's a fantasy.

[Jack Wilson]

Right?

[DG Rampton]

It's historical fantasy. It's like the, you know, the exuberant American. What would you call it? Like a interpretation of English history. It's not real. It's just a fantasy, but it's fun.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay, speaking of something that's not real and that hopefully is a bit of fun, I have a. A question for you here. I want you to close your eyes. Are they closed?

[DG Rampton]

Yes, they are.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay. D.G. rampton, Jane Austen and Georgette Heyer are attending lunch. Okay, open your eyes. Did you have an image that came to mind when I said that? Where could you picture the three of you sitting down and eating lunch?

[DG Rampton]

Oh, my God, yes. I actually did something. An image did pop into my head. It was like a really post traitor with white linen and candlelight.

[Jack Wilson]

What year was it?

[DG Rampton]

So funny. I think it was contemporary, but something like the Ritz in London or something, you know, like a really fancy hotel.

[Jack Wilson]

And were you all wearing. Were you all wearing clothes from your own era or from the Regency period?

[DG Rampton]

From our own era, actually. Jane Austen was wearing a cap. I just realized. I think, because there's like an image of her wearing a cap that's stuck in my head. Whereas Georgette Heyer was in, like, a 1940s type suit.

[Jack Wilson]

Oh, that's wonderful. So what do you think a lunch like that would be like? Who would be doing most of the talking, and what would the three of you be talking about?

[DG Rampton]

That. Well, knowing a little bit about Georgette Hayer, I would say she would be doing much of the talking. She'll be taking control of the conversation. And she would be quite forthright in her opinions.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah.

[DG Rampton]

Jane Austen would be more reserved and observing what is going on and perhaps making her own internal judgments, but judgments, but not speaking them out loud. And I think I'd just be like open mouth, gazing at both of them just adoringly.

[Jack Wilson]

That's so funny. I used to get that. Well, you're the natural heir. You're part of the trio. So it's funny that you mentioned that about Jane Austen, because I used to when I'd get the question of who would you want to be at a dinner party with? And so on, and people would say, well, what about Jane Austen? Wouldn't you want to have her at the table? And I would say, no, I don't want to be at the table with Jane. I want to be at the party where she and I are sitting in the corner and she's kind of whispering to me her observations of everything she's seeing. You know, I want to be the best friend that she's confiding in, but not necessarily the one who is part of the group where she's expected to hold forth.

[DG Rampton]

Oh, gosh, that's exactly how I envisage her as well. Like, she wouldn't be putting herself forward in a big group, but one on one, like, if she trusts you, her observations will be so sharp and witty.

[Jack Wilson]

Or like, we attended the same party. I can't wait to go home. And she's going to text me a lot of the things that she had on her mind.

[DG Rampton]

Well, she wasn't prolific letter writer, so perhaps she would be texting a lot in long form.

[Jack Wilson]

Yeah, well, I would love to get the letter from her, but I wouldn't be able to wait. So I would probably ask her to just go ahead and text me so I could hear her thoughts before my head hit the pillow.

[DG Rampton]

I love that.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay, well, let's leave things there. I didn't mention that your books are in a couple of series. The Regency Goddesses series and the Taming of the Dukes series. And then there is the contemporary book Book Earl Tangled with star Diana. DG Rempton. Thank you so much for joining me on the history of literature.

[DG Rampton]

Thank you, Jack. I've had so much fun.

[Jack Wilson]

Okay, there we go. My thanks to DG Rampton for joining me today. Wasn't that fun? I had fun too. Dg, thank you for joining me. We will be back with some D.H. lawrence next week and the Brownings soon after that and other goodies besides. If you haven't signed up for our newsletter, Emma has really been working hard on those. So please do sign up. We'd love to share some news with you. There's an Emma's note where you hear directly from her and some nice extra interviews with our guests. And hey, let's enjoy being part of the community, shall we? Shall we? We shall. That's at our website historyofliterature.com I'm Jack Wilson. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next.

[Dr. Raewyn Grant]

You've likely heard about touching grass to reconnect with nature, but have you heard about hunting for fossils in conflict zones or saving an endangered species of butterfly while incarcerated? These are just some of the amazing stories we're sharing on Going Wild, the chart topping and award winning podcast produced by Nature on PBS, hosted by me, wildlife ecologist Dr. Ray Winn Grant. In the brand new season of Going Wild, we're talking to some of the most interesting champions of nature ranging from TikTok's black forager Alexis Nicole Nelson and Pulitzer Prize winning science journalist Ed Yong to Nat geo explorer slash stand up comic Ella Al Shamahi to explore what led them to create change within themselves, their community and the natural world. Get inspired, all while exploring our place in the wild. Listen to going wild with Dr. Raewyn Grant wherever you get your podcast.

[Shirley Leung]

I'm Shirley Leung, columnist at the Boston Globe and host of say More, where we go beyond the headlines with bold, intimate conversations about the biggest issues shaping our world. In a new special series, we're going to confront the C word. That's right, cancer. It's a disease that touches us all, but it's hard to talk about. In a new five part series, I open up for the first time about my own battle with breast cancer and explore the science, history and deeply personal stories behind this disease. There is life beyond cancer. Join me for the C Word stories of Cancer. Follow say More from the Boston Globe wherever you get your podcasts.