The History of Literature – Ep. 727: Earthly Paradise in Old French Verse (with Jacob Abell) | My Last Book with Victorian Literature Expert Allen MacDuffie | A Dueling Neapolitan Passionate for Poetry

Podcast Host: Jacke Wilson
Guests: Jacob Abell (Old French literature scholar), Allen MacDuffie (Victorian literature scholar)
Air Date: August 21, 2025

Overview

This episode is a rich exploration of how medieval French literature conceived of "earthly paradise," focusing on the material and spiritual boundaries described in old French verse. Host Jacke Wilson interviews Jacob Abell about his new book on the subject, tracing the motif through canonical works and drawing connections to issues of community, wealth, and even colonialism. The episode also features Victorian literature expert Allen MacDuffie sharing his “last book” choice, with a personal meditation on the experience of reading Proust. Along the way, Jacke delivers an amusing literary anecdote involving a poetry-obsessed Neapolitan duelist.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Neapolitan Duelist Anecdote & Literary Passions (07:56–10:38)

• Jacke Wilson begins the proper episode musing on the intensity with which people used to approach poetry, referencing a historical anecdote about a Neapolitan nobleman who fought 14 duels to argue that Dante was superior to Ariosto—only to admit on his deathbed he’d never read either poet.
  • "Father, to tell you the truth, I never read either Dante or Ariosto." – (09:48, quoting anecdote)
• Takeaway: While we may not duel over poets anymore, literature can still spark deep passions and questions about how we live and treat one another.

2. Interview with Jacob Abell: Earthly Paradise in Medieval French Literature

Setting the Stage: What is Medieval French Literature? (14:10–18:09)

• Jacob Abell explains “medieval French literature” is a catchall for a vast array of genres and dialects spanning from the 9th to 15th centuries and beyond.
  • Key explainer: The explosion of imaginative literature in vernacular French really takes off in the 12th century, with figures like Chrétien de Troyes and Marie de France.
  • "We’re really talking about this kind of explosion of writing across genres that picks up in earnest in the 12th century." – Abell (17:21)

Why the Explosion? Patronage, Politics, and Vernacular (18:09–21:28)

• Jacke and Jacob discuss how courtly patronage—rather than a drive for mass literacy—drove many translations and adaptations from Latin into French. These works were often intended for an elite, not for the general populace.

The Research Genesis: Why Study the Walls of Earthly Paradise? (23:12–25:51)

• The project’s roots: Jacob Abell was struck by the recurrence of gemstone-encrusted walls of the earthly paradise in different quest narratives, linking them both to biblical imagery (esp. the Book of Revelation) and to larger questions of community and property.
  • "It started as a kind of philological question...and a couple years later, that led to a book about questions of economic solidarity and Christian ideals." – Abell (24:37)

Paradise Lost—and Walled Off (25:51–30:35)

• Eden as ancestral home: Medieval writers, taking Genesis literally, envisioned Eden as still existing somewhere in the world, perhaps accessible to those pure enough to find it.
  • "It’s kind of a loose thread from the book of Genesis...it’s kind of presented to the medieval mind as, well, that’s still around. That must exist somewhere." – Wilson (28:12)
• The walls as a recurring symbol, blending Genesis’ lost garden with Revelation’s New Jerusalem.

The Key Texts: Brendan’s Voyage, Purgatory of St. Patrick, and The Romance of the Rose (31:49–49:18)

• Brendan’s Voyage (The Voyage of St. Brendan the Abbot, 12th c.): Monks’ journey toward earthly paradise is an allegory for renunciation of private property, communal living, and ethical conduct.
  • "Along the way, it becomes a journey about how [the monks] learn how to dispossess themselves of goods in order to make sure they’re living in harmony with others." – Abell (37:29)
  • Gems as building material: "If you’re putting rubies and gems and sapphires in your walls, you can’t spend them, you can’t hoard them, you can’t possess them as private property..." – Abell (37:12)
• Purgatory of St. Patrick (Marie de France): Focuses on spiritual, rather than material, community; visions of an idealized collective religious experience powered by the Holy Spirit.
• Romance of the Rose: Shifts the meaning of “earthly paradise” toward a secular, erotic realm—away from solidarity/community to allegorical pursuit of romantic love.
  • "By the time we get to the Romance of the Rose, it’s just all about love. And by love, I mean romantic love...Gone is any of this emphasis on community." – Abell (46:54)

From Medieval to Modern: Economic Solidarity, Colonialism, and Relevance Today (49:18–54:35)

• Abell connects the symbolic “earthly paradise” to later colonial justifications: explorers like Columbus invoked the search for paradise as a moral cover for conquest.
  • "Part of my argument is if we key in, particularly on the Brendan story, we see an earlier tradition that has not yet been pressed into the service of these really terrifying...colonial projects." – Abell (50:30)
• The parable of the monks is urgent for today's world—how do we behave toward refugees, strangers, and non-humans? Can wealth be reimagined as collective abundance rather than private property?
  • "I think that poem also expands our awareness of animal, plant, elemental communities that we share the planet with and how our effort to harvest resources for our survival and thriving also impact the otters, the sheep, the water, the various other-than-human subjects..." – Abell (53:59)

Marie de France: A Last Note (54:35–56:34)

• Abell expresses admiration for Marie de France's literary theory and advocacy for interpretive reading:
  • "She describes it...as the job of the reader to put the finishing touches to their meaning...the meaning of the text isn’t just sort of fixed...It has to be completed and evolved through the interpretation of the reader." – Abell (55:34)

3. My Last Book: Victorian Scholar Allen MacDuffie Chooses Proust (57:49–64:24)

• Jacke asks Allen MacDuffie: "What do you want your last book to be?" (58:02)
  • MacDuffie chooses Marcel Proust’s In Search of Lost Time as his final book, citing both its length and inexhaustible depths, but also his personal connection and repeated, never-completed attempts to finish the series.
    • "It is a kind of goal of mine in my life at some point to read all of it...I think it’d be fitting as the last book." – MacDuffie (59:54)
  • Jacke adds: "All the early books, they made me want to live...But [the last book] gives you a new sense of looking back at your life and looking back at memories and the passage of time..." (61:01)
  • The discussion is warm, personal, and funny—both reflect on the incompatibility of small children and enormous, complex novels.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses." — Dorothy Parker, discussed by Jacke Wilson (08:50)
• "You see how hard it is to rank these...Let’s just read Dante and see what’s there...There’s no need to rank them, let alone fight 14 duels over them." — Jacke Wilson (10:12)
• "When we talk about medieval French literature, we’re really talking about this kind of explosion of writing across genres that picks up in earnest in the 12th century." — Jacob Abell (17:21)
• "If you look at business documents...you see evidence of a lot more diffuse sort of knowledge of French throughout social classes." — Jacob Abell (18:31)
• "If you’re putting rubies and gems and sapphires in your walls, you can’t spend them, you can’t hoard them, you can’t possess them as private property." — Jacob Abell (37:12)
• "Gone is any of this emphasis on community...He’s willing to do this in a way that seems kind of precarious and violent at times." — Jacob Abell on The Romance of the Rose (46:54)
• "Recovering a story like the voyage of St. Brendan can...help us in our own time to think about our own social location. What is our response to people who wash up on our shores and need hospitality?" — Jacob Abell (52:24)
• "She [Marie de France] describes it...as the job of the reader to put the finishing touches to their meaning." — Jacob Abell (55:34)
• "It is a kind of goal of mine in my life at some point to read all of it and just...as the last book, totally lose myself in this kind of epic magisterial work." — Allen MacDuffie (59:54)
• "Sometimes it seems like he [Proust] doesn’t even have a skin. He’s just nerve endings." — Jacke Wilson (61:16)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Anecdote & Opening Monologue: 02:27–10:38
• Interview with Jacob Abell: 13:19–56:50
  • What is Medieval French Literature? 14:10–18:09
  • Patronage & Vernacular 18:09–21:28
  • Origins of the Research 23:12–25:51
  • Walls and Paradise: Eden & Jerusalem 25:51–30:35
  • Three Major Texts: Brendan, Patrick, Rose 31:49–49:07
  • Wealth, Colonialism, Modern Parallels 49:18–54:35
  • Marie de France 54:35–56:34
• Allen MacDuffie’s “Last Book” (Proust): 57:49–64:24

Tone and Style

Conversational, enthusiastic, and insightful—the host and guests discuss ideas with warmth, a sense of humor, and a deep appreciation for both the oddities of literary history and its enduring contemporary relevance.

For Listeners New to the Episode

This episode is a deep dive into the evolution and significance of “earthly paradise” in medieval French literature, with engaging detours through strange literary history and personal reflections on the pleasures (and pitfalls) of reading life-defining masterpieces. It’s ideal listening for those interested in not just what great literature says, but how it shapes—and is shaped by—communities, values, and the ways we see both history and our own lives.