Podcast Summary: The History of Literature — Ep. 767

“A Black Woman in the Romantic Archive” (with Mathalinda Nabugodi) | “My Last Book” with Richard Kopley Release Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Jacke Wilson
Guests: Mathalinda Nabugodi (comparative literature scholar), Richard Kopley (Edgar Allan Poe expert)

Overview

This episode explores Mathalinda Nabugodi’s experience as a Black woman investigating the archives of Romantic-era writers, bringing new attention to whose histories are preserved and who is left out. Jacke Wilson and Nabugodi discuss race, material culture, literary history, and the joys and challenges of close archival research. The episode closes with Poe expert Richard Kopley’s reflection on the one book he’d choose to read at the end of his life.

Main Theme

Re-examining Romanticism:

The episode examines the legacies of Romantic poets like Wordsworth, Coleridge, Keats, Byron, and the Shelleys through the lens of race and archive, considering what is preserved, forgotten, silenced, or subverted—both in materials and memory. Nabugodi discusses her book, The Trembling Reflections of a Black Woman in the Romantic Archive, and interrogates how Black lives intersected with the material and social worlds of canonical literature.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mathalinda Nabugodi’s Archival "Sleuthing"

• She describes the “sleuth” label (thanks to her editor) as capturing her mission to find “traces that are often quite small, quite marginal, and yet to bring them center stage.” ([06:16])
• Early discovery: A letter from Byron referencing a “little black boy” (a servant delivering secret notes), spurring questions about Black presences and absences in significant literary archives. ([06:03])

2. Conventional Wisdom About Romantic Poets

• Romantic poets are popularly seen as “mad, bad, and dangerous to know” (Lady Caroline Lamb), focused on sublime feeling and subjectivity ([06:58]).
• Wilson references Wordsworth’s “emotion recollected in tranquility,” and Nabugodi reframes this as an effort to find “universal knowledge” through personal emotions ([07:27]).
• Romanticism is positioned as reaction to Enlightenment rationality, prioritizing subjective truths over quantifiable knowledge ([07:55]).

3. Ties Between Romantic Poetry and Slavery

• Nabugodi highlights the financial underpinnings of Romantic writers’ lifestyles: “where does the money come from to finance that?” For Wordsworth, family income and patronage derived from the profits of slavery ([09:29]).
• She argues “their world is infiltrated and infused with the slave economy” even if the poets did not write about it directly ([10:57]).
• Romantics’ silence on slavery is not innocence: “To choose not to engage with it is a political choice.” ([11:09])
• The complexity of indirect complicity: "Even if they don't come in touch with enslaved people directly, they would no doubt consume sugar or coffee produced by enslaved people." ([09:44])

4. Material Culture: Objects in the Archive

• Nabugodi details unusual items she found: “a bracelet made of Mary Shelley’s hair, Byron’s silk-lined boots, Percy Shelley’s gilded baby rattle.” ([01:06])
• Objects physically tether the poets to the global economy of their era—traveling cutlery, plates, and the ways their everyday lives were tied to colonialism ([12:00]).
• She explores how “material objects anchor them in the world and let us tie political issues to poems” ([12:00]).

5. Omission and Erasure in Literary History

• Coleridge’s engagement with early “racial science” is largely “erased” from literary canons—he sought to taxonomize races with Europeans on top, yet modern scholarship avoids this aspect ([14:00]).
• “We ourselves feel uncomfortable with a thought like, ‘Oh, my favorite poet is a racist.’” Nabugodi addresses the tension in loving works by flawed people ([14:27]).

6. Shame, Justification, and Self-Contortion

• Nabugodi compares British poets to Thomas Jefferson (US) who “contorted” his logic to justify racist positions ([14:34]).
• Wordsworth argued against abolition, fearing chaos, while clinging to a self-image of being “against slavery”—a painful contradiction ([15:48]).

7. “Paper Sleuthing” and Intimate Details

• Paper-making details (watermarks, linen rags) allow dating of manuscripts and reveal connections: Percy and Mary Shelley shared supplies, highlighting collaborative and domestic realities ([17:05], [18:05]).

8. Hair, DNA, and Resonance of Materiality

• Hair as a love token or mourning symbol (like Mary Shelley's hair bracelet) links the Romantic fascination with embodiment to Nabugodi’s own experience as a woman with Afro hair. Hair, for racial theorists, was often more significant than skin color in drawing racial lines ([22:01]-[22:37]).

9. The “Dark Interloper”: Race and Presence in the Archive

• Nabugodi felt the “transgression” of being an archivist not only as a Black woman but as someone with a political agenda, aware that her presence might seem “iconoclastic” when probing well-loved national figures ([26:22]-[27:35]).

Notable Quote:
“I was also aware that my work might seem sacrilegious to some... It’s not appropriate to bring a contemporary agenda to these icons of literature.” — Mathalinda Nabugodi ([26:48])

• She stresses that her work is about enhancing knowledge, not “taking people down a peg,” and that flawed creators can still produce powerful work ([29:32]).
• Importance of seeking resistance, beauty, and joy in the Black archive, not just pain and dehumanization:
  “By only repeating those kind of dehumanizing materials, I would be repeating the dehumanization of those persons.” ([30:55])

10. Hidden Resistance and Cultural Survival

• Black carnival costumes and cultural practices retained African roots unintelligible to white British observers, highlighting resistance through opacity, creativity, and enduring culture ([32:44]-[34:41]).

11. The Trembling Hand: Layered Meanings

• The title alludes to the literal trembling of hands in manuscripts but also Nabugodi’s own “tentativeness” amidst fragmentary and uncertain historical evidence ([34:53]-[36:39]).
• “Maybe my own uncertainty in the face of these materials...” ([35:39])

Memorable Anecdotes:

• Poignant observation about Shelley writing poems “for Jane only to see” on shared household paper, yet Mary Shelley omitting these from publication after his death ([36:58]-[38:34]).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Sleuthing:
  “Sleuthing is trying to find those traces that are often quite small, quite marginal, and yet to bring them center stage.” — Mathalinda Nabugodi ([06:16])
• On Wealth and Slavery:
  “It’s money made on enslavement that are enabling Wordsworth to have his education and to have the free time to pursue literature, as opposed to a job that would actually pay him.” — Nabugodi ([09:29])
• On Racial Erasure:
  “Not just a question of what they did or did not say, but also a question of what people afterwards have chosen to emphasize or look away from.” — Nabugodi ([14:09])
• On the Poet’s Flaws:
  “People feel uncomfortable with notion that someone whose work they love might have had opinions that they find distasteful.” — Nabugodi ([28:21])
• On Joy in the Archive:
  “There’s a joy in reading. There’s an interest and passion and commitment in reading poetry, which is in very sharp contrast with a history of enslavement.” — Nabugodi ([30:55])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to Mathalinda Nabugodi and the Book: [01:06] – [04:55]
• Sleuthing & the "Little Black Boy" in Byron’s Letters: [05:13] – [06:16]
• Conventional View of Romantic Poets: [06:24] – [07:27]
• Romanticism vs. Enlightenment: [07:55] – [08:27]
• Connecting Romanticism to Slavery: [09:18] – [11:09]
• Material Objects in the Archive: [12:00] – [13:20]
• Erasure of Racial Science from Coleridge’s Legacy: [14:09] – [14:27]
• Shame and Intellectual Contortions (Jefferson Parallels): [14:34] – [15:48]
• Paper Sleuthing & Domestic Intimacy: [17:05] – [18:36]
• Hair as Material & Symbol: [19:13] – [22:37]
• Resonance and Presence in Archives: [26:22] – [29:32]
• Seeking Joy & Black Cultural Agency: [30:55] – [32:44]
• Carnival, Cultural Continuity, and Resistance: [32:44] – [34:41]
• Meaning of “The Trembling Hand”: [34:53] – [36:39]
• Personal Reflections on Finding Poetry Manuscripts: [36:39] – [38:34]

Final Segment: Richard Kopley — “My Last Book” ([41:02]–[45:54])

Segment Overview

Expert Richard Kopley shares what he would want as his last book: the poetry of William Wordsworth, especially for its evocation of nature and childhood.

• He would want to hear “My heart leaps up when I behold…” ([42:14]), and the “Ode: Intimations of Immortality.”
• Kopley relates Wordsworth’s “backyard nature” to his own childhood experiences, reinforcing literature’s capacity to universalize the wonder of childhood, regardless of physical environment.

Notable Quote:
“It's as if I had meadows and mountains. That little green space was enough for my imagination.” — Richard Kopley ([43:44])

Tone and Language

Throughout, Jacke Wilson’s tone is enthusiastic, self-deprecating, and seeking connection (“I feel like a fat-glutted king...except I’m the peasant and these guests are the royalty...” [03:30]). Nabugodi is thoughtful, candid, and open, weaving scholarly analysis with personal insight. The episode maintains an inviting, passionate, and reflective mood, with an emphasis on curiosity, discovery, and wrestling with complexities.

Conclusion

This episode presents a nuanced, deeply personal investigation into the material traces of Romantic poets, challenging listeners to reconsider whose histories are present and whose are absent in literary legacy. By integrating objects, paper, letters, and even hair, Mathalinda Nabugodi foregrounds the intertwined stories of race, resistance, and literary creation. The episode closes on a meditative note about the enduring power of poetry to evoke wonder and memory, no matter one’s background.