The History of Literature, Episode 769: "The European Byron" (with Jonathan Gross) | The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald (#3 GBOAT)

Podcast Host: Jacke Wilson
Guest: Jonathan Gross, Professor of English at DePaul University, author, and President of the International Association of Byron Societies
Date: January 22, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features two major literary explorations. In part one, host Jacke Wilson delves into The Great Gatsby’s classical roots, especially the character Trimalchio from Petronius’s Satyricon and his influence on Gatsby. In part two, Jacke interviews Jonathan Gross about Lord Byron, focusing on Byron’s cosmopolitanism, the concept of “mobility” in his poetry, and his enduring influence across European culture.

Part One: The Great Gatsby and Trimalchio (00:54–23:36)

Main Theme

Jacke Wilson examines how F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby draws on classical literature, particularly the character Trimalchio from Petronius's Satyricon, and the implications of the working titles for Gatsby and its enduring status as an American classic.

Key Discussion Points

• The Many Titles of Gatsby (04:09–05:32)

  • Fitzgerald considered several alternative titles for The Great Gatsby, including "Trimalchio in West Egg."
  • Publishers rejected "Trimalchio" out of concern Americans wouldn't know the reference or how to pronounce it.

• Trimalchio Explained (05:32–10:56)

  • Trimalchio, a freed slave turned wealthy upstart in Satyricon, is ostentatious and vulgar—mirroring Gatsby’s nouveau riche flair.
  • Fitzgerald’s affection for the name is evidenced by its presence on early galley proofs and a fleeting mention in the published novel (“his career as Trimalchio was over” [~05:32]).
  • The publisher’s doubts proved correct: most Americans would not have recognized the classical connotation.

• Parallels Between Trimalchio and Gatsby

  • Both are self-made men, outsiders to the established elite, and embody themes of performative wealth and social exclusion.
  • The Satyricon’s depiction of Trimalchio: satirical, opulent banquets and cruel treatment of underlings. Petronius lampoons the vulgarity and hollowness of mere wealth.
  • Reviewer quote, referenced by Jacke:
    "The worship of the flesh and its lusts alternately disgusted and fascinated the author." (12:53, paraphrasing Judge Oberweger on Satyricon)

• Gatsby’s Classical Knowledge

  • Fitzgerald had referenced Petronius as early as 1919 in his first novel, linking classical satire to modern commentary on excess, aspiration, and social mobility.

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the Trimalchio Reference (06:32):
  “His career as Trimalchio was over. Who was Trimalchio, and why would this be elevated to the title of the book?” —Jacke Wilson
• Connecting Classical Satire to Gatsby (13:19):
  “It’s hard not to imagine Fitzgerald recognizing a kindred spirit, preceding him by 1850 years or so.” —Jacke Wilson

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 04:09—Jacke introduces the focus on Gatsby’s classical inspiration.
• 05:32—Discussion of Trimalchio and the Satyricon character.
• 12:53—Judge Oberweger’s quote on Satyricon’s themes and Gatsby parallels.
• 19:30—Transition from Gatsby to next book topics and Byron.

Part Two: Lord Byron, Mobility, and Cosmopolitanism (25:23–63:31)

Main Theme

A deep-dive interview with Jonathan Gross about Lord Byron's mobility across cultures, his chameleon-like poetry, and his influence throughout Europe.

Key Discussion Points

• First Encounters with Byron (25:48–26:59)

  • Gross discovered Byron in a college course, becoming captivated by his poetry’s irony and wisdom, particularly Don Juan.
  • “He spoke directly to me, even though it was 200 years later. It was a remarkable feeling of freshness.” —Jonathan Gross (26:33)

• Defining ‘Mobility’ in Byron (28:27–30:37)

  • Byron’s idea that “mobility”—an excessive susceptibility to immediate impressions—describes the capacity to adapt, charm, and embody multiple perspectives without losing one's core.
  • Cites Don Juan:
    “It may be defined as an excessive susceptibility to immediate impressions. At the same time, without losing the past...a most painful and unhappy attribute.” (Byron, quoted by Gross, 29:11)

• ‘Chameleon Poetry’ and Literature

  • The notion, via John Keats, that great poets (Shakespeare, Byron) possess a chameleon-like ability to inhabit multiple personalities, settings, and emotional states.
  • Contrasted with Wordsworth’s “egotistical sublime” (always the same self).

• Byron’s Biography and Emotional Complexity (33:55–36:19)

  • Byron’s difficult childhood, complex identity (Scottish/English), his mother’s struggles, and lifelong sense of being an outsider all contributed to his restlessness and cosmopolitan outlook.
  • “He had lived every life: overweight boy with a bad haircut [and] a heartthrob … he had been poor, he’d been a lord. He was half Scott, half English.” —Jonathan Gross (34:10)

• Mobility in Life and Art (39:07–42:34)

  • Byron’s extensive travels through Europe; desire to experience, not just observe, foreign cultures (even learning their languages).
  • Disdain for being “just a writer”—he preferred being “a man of the world.”
  • Champion of underdogs, open-minded toward other religions and cultures—contrasted with the parochialism of many British contemporaries.

• Cosmopolitan Identity in Byron (44:12–49:16)

  • Byron’s self-fashioning: wearing Albanian dress, fluency in Italian, integration into local cultures.
  • Contrasts British travelers who “never leave their country behind” with Byron, who blended into his surroundings.

• Byron and European Literary Traditions (49:51–52:02)

  • Byron was profoundly influenced by the ancient Greeks and Romans, as well as contemporary Irish, Italian, and French writers.
  • Collaborative friendships: financial and personal support for Mary Shelley and Leigh Hunt.

• Byron’s Popularity—Why He Mattered Then and Now (52:02–58:21)

  • Captured the spirit of the post-French Revolution, especially the young and disaffected.
  • Gave poetic voice to disenchantment, but also to empathy and realism:
    “He wasn’t afraid to say uncomfortable truths.” —Jonathan Gross (56:30)
  • Poetry is erudite yet accessible; blends travel writing, memoir, history, and colloquial voice.
  • Example, often-quoted stanza:
    “When a man hath no freedom to fight for at home,
    Let him combat for that of his neighbors…” (57:38)

• Byron’s Irony, Empathy, and Complex Legacy (58:21–63:21)

  • Both cynical and deeply emotional; a critic of hypocrisy in all forms (aristocracy, democracy, poets, governments).
  • Supporter of the Luddites and outspoken in Parliament.
  • Advised on reading Byron: start with the love lyrics, letters, or Don Juan depending on interests.
  • Byron inspired imitation and controversy—some imitated him badly and misunderstood his complexity.

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On Byron’s “Mobility” (30:29)
  “It’s the ability to move from one thing to another … to be different things for different people.” —Jonathan Gross

• On British Travelers vs Byron (46:57):
  “One thing … about the British was that they could never leave their country behind. They wore, as my father used to say, socks at the beach … Whereas Byron would do just the opposite. He dressed as they dressed.” —Jonathan Gross

• On Byron’s Contemporary Relevance (57:03):
  “He appealed to people, as Adam Mickiewicz, the Polish poet said, because he doesn’t lie. He wasn’t a liar. Some people mouthed pieties and he didn’t.” —Jonathan Gross

• Jacke’s closing reflection on Byron’s enduring appeal (63:13):
  “You read Byron, and then you want to see Italy and Spain. And I think if you read Childe Harold, you'll want to see the world just like he did.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 25:48—Gross introduces his first encounter with Byron.
• 29:11—Defining “mobility” using lines from Byron’s Don Juan.
• 34:10—Byron’s unique background and upbringing.
• 44:12—Byron’s cosmopolitanism and self-fashioning.
• 57:38—Gross quotes a classic stanza from Byron.

Memorable Moments

• Literary Anecdotes: Jacke opens with a tale about Karl Barth and a witty retort to the reduction of his field—setting up the episode’s theme of digging deeper beneath the surface.
• Gross on Imitators:
  “A lot of people went down bad paths thinking they were just like Byron. … John Polidori … tried to use Byron’s fame to become famous themselves. I hope I haven’t done that!” (62:29)
• Gross on the Podcast’s Mission:
  “You really, I think, take a nonacademic approach to these writers … Like going to England, you read Jane Austen and then you want to see Bath. The same thing … you read Byron and then you want to see Italy and Spain.” (62:58)

Recommendations & Final Thoughts

• Gatsby: Re-read The Great Gatsby with an eye for its classical references; explore the podcast archives for additional Fitzgerald episodes.
• Byron: For newcomers:
  • Idealists: start with Byron’s short love lyrics.
  • Prose enthusiasts: read his brilliantly honest letters.
  • Cynics: Don Juan is witty, ironic, and emotionally rich.
• Travel & Reading: Both Gatsby and Byron inspire the desire to travel—either through time, cultures, or across physical landscapes.

Episode’s Tone and Style

The conversation is erudite, insightful, and leavened by wit and warmth. Both Jacke and Jonathan Gross balance scholarly literary analysis with humor, personal stories, and accessible explanations.

Additional Resources

• Jonathan Gross’s book: The European Byron: Mobility, Cosmopolitanism, and Chameleon Poetry
• Podcast website for tour details and further episode recommendations.

Top Quotes with Attribution & Timestamps

• "His career as Trimalchio was over. Who was Trimalchio, and why would this be elevated to the title of the book?"
  —Jacke Wilson (06:32)

• "[Don Juan]...it was the cynicism, actually, it was the irony and his insights into life…he spoke directly to me, even though it was 200 years later. It was a remarkable feeling of freshness."
  —Jonathan Gross (26:33)

• "It may be defined as an excessive susceptibility of immediate impressions. At the same time, without losing the past. And is, though sometimes apparently useful to the possessor, a most painful and unhappy attribute."
  —Byron via Gross (29:11)

• "He wasn't afraid to say uncomfortable truths."
  —Jonathan Gross (56:30)

• "You read Byron, and then you want to see Italy and Spain. And I think if you read Childe Harold, you'll want to see the world just like he did."
  —Jacke Wilson (63:13)