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The Improvement Season Podcast
The Truth About Bodybuilding Progress and Stage Success - Steve & Mike
01:33:07
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- [00:01]
A
Hey guys, welcome back to the Improvement Season podcast with your hopefully favorite natty BB boys, Magic Mike and Steve. And Steve. It was. We've just come back from the wnbf. We haven't just come back, but obviously this past weekend was the WNBF first timers. We're both feeling a little bit more tired than normal, but it was a great weekend in experience regardless. But apart from that, how are you doing? Apart from feeling a bit tired?
- [00:30]
B
Yeah, it's like I've just got a little bit of a hangover of fatigue from it and I think there's multiple reasons for that. I don't know if you're the same but I normally do some work over the weekend, especially on a Sunday and it kind of gets me ahead for the week. And then because I didn't have that opportunity to, it was like, oh, Monday was full on in terms of client work. But then also I maybe gave feedback to 20 competitors and I open myself up to it. Like I said on my story, like if people wanted feedback, I'd give it. But you're probably the same as me, Mike. Like I was. I wanted their kind of number division and everything because actually we had the live stream so I could go, I like find them in the live stream and like, because that just helped with like my memory of them and how they're performing on stage and everything. Which is really helpful actually for anyone who wants to check out like WnBF UK first time as novice show, definitely check out the live stream. They've got all three sections there. It's in like high definition, it's high quality. So yeah, anyway I was like, like revisiting that like rejigging my memory, trying to give them solid feedback. So that was quite a lot. And it's probably also is my bad I feel pressured to give feedback relatively quickly. So I don't want to kind of. Yeah. Keep people hanging on. But yeah, apart from all of that, life is good. Just hit a PR on my like stiff leg, my hip hinge this week. So I was actually just looking back because the last time I finished, I just think this is interesting for people to think about. It was interesting to me to reflect on. I was looking back through my videos and I actually had an rdl like basically this hip hinge that I was doing before and I rotated it out. This was back in August last year and I did 200 for nine. So I just did 211. So it's like it just gives people an idea of how slow progress is. Yeah, Imagine if I. People thought I could add a rep every week. Man, if I could have a rep every month, that would be good. Like, progress is slow on these things and I'm going to be able to do 200 for more than 11 going forward. I definitely wasn't at my max, but still, like, that's a long, like almost a year to have added three reps. Right, you think about that. But like, as someone who's been training basically two decades, that's not really surprising. So I think sometimes people, yeah, it's just a good reminder for myself. But also people like, who are viewing, maybe even me training, they're like, oh, Steve seems to be making all this, like, really fast progress. It's like, no, it comes real slow. I'm just grinding away at those slow gains. But anyway, rambling aside, how are you?
- [03:02]
A
No, no, no, it's good rambles. I mean, it's also just. I was thinking a credit to you as well for probably being just consistent with your technique as well. Because I think a lot of other people might be fooled because maybe they. They've been changing the chopping and changing their technique or maybe kind of the quality is dropped off or whatnot. But that is just a really good reality check for that and your level of advancement, I think.
- [03:27]
B
Yeah, if anything, my technique's better now, actually, which I would hope so. It's a little bit. Yeah, it's. But still, it's not like I've added 10% to my lift even. Like, I wish. So, yeah, we'll see where it goes. And I'm glad that that lift is feeling good, but I know you've. You've also felt. How's training gone this week? You said you had a surprising session on Monday considering what time did you end up getting in on the weekend? Sorry, yeah. Home after Sunday because the Supernatural. Supernaturals. The waf first time was on the Sunday.
- [03:59]
A
I think it might have been similar to you, actually. I think I got back about midnight. Did you say.
- [04:03]
B
Oh, wow, okay. So you weren't too bad. I was thinking you were going to be horrendous.
- [04:07]
A
Yeah, no, no, fortunately it wasn't that bad at all. Although I was definitely really tired when I got home. It kind of like it could have felt later to me for sure. I was really feeling the effects of that and I was quite lucky as well because I booked the afternoon off, so I went the clinic in the morning, but it just meant that I could train in the afternoon and I didn't have to get up at like 5am to go to the gym. So I think. And that weirdly, I had a great session on Monday, my performance on all my lifts improved and I was like, I don't know what's happening, but I'll take it. So. And I felt fine in, in terms of how I performed in the gym, there haven't been any because I did a part of me in the back of my head thought, am I going to pay for later in the week? Because I kind of wasn't sure. But so far so good and things have been going well. So I'm just hoping that as I again can recoup some of this. Not that you can recover sleep, but again, you just kind of get back into your normal rhythm and hopefully just start sleeping well again for the normal amount of time that, yeah, things will just feel, you know, solid again.
- [05:23]
B
Did you manage to sleep in then or did you wake up at five?
- [05:26]
A
Oh no, I slept in. So I got up at 7 o',
- [05:31]
B
clock, which is like, yeah, that's so interesting. The reason I say that is because I try to sleep in and I can't. My body just wakes me up at like 7. I'm gonna be awake. Typically it's slightly before that. If I try and sleep in, I'm just like, it's just not gonna happen to me. So, yeah, you are a sleeping machine though. Cause I know you've slept through arms and things before and obviously we've, we've stayed together and you're just, you're made for sleep somehow I think.
- [06:01]
A
But I think it's genetic because my dad is ridiculous. He'll. He'll sleep in until like 11 or he's like a, he's like a teenager. He's. He honestly sleeps in till like 11, 12 o' clock sometimes and he'll go to bed at like 10. I'm like, how do you do this?
- [06:17]
B
On that note, just a random side tangent. Side tangent. Flipping heck, I've got into that habit again. Tangent. It's just a tangent on the side. Anyway, I just bought a new sleep mask because I was complaining about getting woken up and I was having a bit of a back and forth with chat GPT. Like, if money is not an issue, what's the best sleep mask? Because I'm like, hey, sleep masks can only cost so much, right? I just want the best one. And it was recommending like this manta sleep one. And then I did look at some Reviews like on YouTube and everything looked really good, to be honest. So I've just invested in Their like, pro whatever. It costs like 70 pounds or something for a flipping sleep mask, but it's meant to be good. So if it can help my sleep by like even 5% over the long run, the cumulative kind of gains from that is going to be worth it. And I have a sleep mask, but like I said to you, it kind of falls off. And this one's specially made for side sleepers, which I am. And then it also lets light in, whereas this one is like full on, stuck to your face type of deal where. So I'll be sure to review it or something. So if people are interested in whether it's worth that amount of money. But I think it's one of those things you buy once and it's like, yeah, it. Over the years of sleeping, it's going to be like less than pennies per sleep.
- [07:31]
A
Yeah, I'm. Well, I'm fascinated to see it because I'm envisioning there's some sort of like, oh, it's pretty sleek.
- [07:38]
B
It's just like a. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to describe it, but it's pretty small. I don't. I can't do big things on my face.
- [07:46]
A
No. But I'm. I'm looking forward to the review for sure.
- [07:50]
B
Yeah, you don't need it though, Mike. But what I was gonna say for you is it's a good reminder. It's similar to, like, when people go into diets, they're like, oh, no, my performance is gonna be terrible. It's like, no, no, don't go in with expectations of that. It's kind of similar to what we've said before about, like having beliefs in general. Like, always just have this kind of general optimistic belief. It's like, okay, don't go in and be like, go train silly and think you're gonna perform, like, amazingly because it's unlikely. But equally, don't go in and catastrophize and think everything's gonna be terrible. Go in and performers like, be like, yeah, I'm going to be good. It's going to be progressive. And then if it isn't, accept it, don't try and fight it type of deal. That's kind of how I entered in the beginning of this week was like, hey, don't expect the best training, but go in and perform as well as you can. I'd find training, it just felt a little bit more challenging, like more mentally than anything else than physically I could perform. So, yeah, I'm glad that you're Doing well there. And you had Aaron on stage, of course. So let's give the listeners an update on Aaron and how that all went and his, his kind of feedback to you because I'm sure you've spoken since as well.
- [08:56]
A
Absolutely. So we checked in today, which was great, but no, Aaron competed in, I believe the first timers open lightweight class bodybuilding. And I think if I remember rightly, there was maybe seven competitors in his class, I think roughly six or seven or there are thereabouts, I can't remember exactly, but I think it was, it was a, it was a tough class as all of the classes at. And I, I said this to Aaron actually it's funny because I think the first timers competition is a bit of, it can be misleading because genuinely the standard of the competition is so high you've got literally, I think there was people from outside of the UK competing in the competition as well. So it's a genuine, there was 242, 243 competitors or somewhere 240 something competitors. So when you think about that, you think about how many competitors were an international field of competitors. This is genuinely an international championship. You know, this isn't some sort of small local show that you're going to. And so, and ultimately what I'm getting to is Aaron didn't place in the top five in his class. But that is no reflection on, you know, I guess the caliber or the quality of, you know, he was, he was up against, you know, a high caliber class. So I think it's, I was trying to convey that so that he, so that he wasn't disappointed because the standard was just so high. But I think, yeah, ultimately the thing that I cared the most about was that Aaron enjoyed the experience and I could see it on his face where when he was on the, on the stage he genuinely looked like he was having fun. The smile looked genuine, his smile was beaming and it didn't look fake or put on. And you know, again he came off and he said he loved it. And I think as a coach and as someone who is helping someone get to the stage for the very first time, I think that should be the primary goal. You want them to have a good experience and to kind of almost leave that, what's the word? That kind of motivation or desire to want to do it again, almost. And I think if you've done that then you've succeeded as a coach potentially. There's always, you know, it doesn't matter what stage in your bodybuilding career you are you know, there's always areas that you can get better and there's always mistakes and things that you can learn to get better which you know we'll, we definitely learned a ton from this past weekend. So yeah so I think it's really exciting for Aaron. There's definitely stuff that we can improve upon. Move. He's got one more competition in two weeks, two to three weeks time. The PCA Naturals on 28 June so we've got a couple of weeks to make some improve some small tweaks and improvements and then go into an improvement season where again we've got really valuable feedback on where we need to work. So. So overall really successful weekend. So yeah, it was great.
- [11:59]
B
I think you're complete and also yeah there was a huge number of competitors and I actually think quite a number of the first timer category sorry first timer classes were competitive than the novice classes which is just. That's just how it sometimes falls like it and it does lull you into a full sense of security sometimes the no I've seen novice class winners win the overall and actually on that note the overall bodybuilding winner was the winner of Aaron's class like he was the I believe first timer lightweight winner was then he. He won the overall I believe it was the same class I'm almost certain. So yeah it was, it was a really good class that he was in. He some like in that class though he had some of the best lower body is just his upper body is unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you want to look at it. I think it's easier to bring up the upper body somehow than the lower body because lower body training is just brutal. But he had some of the best quads like glutes, hamstrings in that class for sure just a little bit undersized on the upper body I think generally but that's sometimes what happens also in or what you might expect more of in first time as a novice is not a complete physique and like posy and presentation is often not quite as good because you just haven't had the years of practice specifically like posy and presentation is something that you only get to really unless you're like I don't know really into it in your off seasons or like they're not even an off season for you are they? They're just you're like training because you're not a competitor at that point but most people aren't. You only really like my posing has just improved a lot over the years To a point where now it's like autonomous to some extent for bodybuilding at least. But it's taken a long time to find the things that work for me and so on and so forth. But anyway, all that being said, yeah, I think he presented really, really well and I know he asked me like, did I do revive, stronger, proud. And I want to say live. He absolutely did the team proud. And yeah, he came in really good nick for a first timer. And it's like you said, I think the ultimate goal as a first timer and coaching a first timer to stage is for them to want to like be chompy at the bit, to come back and enjoy the process and learn from it and then apply in future. And it's better to be that way than, oh, you won, but you drove them into the ground and they hated the experience, they're never going to come back. It's like, yeah, you won a first timer show, it's better that you came sick than came back in future years and you won overalls for open classes, got your pro card, so on and so forth. So definitely the long game. But at the same time, I know this is true, especially for Aaron because he came in great condition. That's not to handicap that person. Similar to you don't go into a week and think, oh, it's going to be crap because I had poor sleep. It's like it might not be the best because of that. Similar to a first timer, it might be that you don't get quite the glutes all the way through in the rear or so on and so forth, but it doesn't mean it can't happen. Which is similar to actually my update, not from the wnbf, but William, my client over in the States, he did an OCB show and took his pro card and this was his first season. Now, it wasn't his first show because he had already had one a couple of weeks prior, but we took what we got from that, learned, applied and took it into this. And again, my ultimate goal for William was like, enjoy the process, like so on and so forth. But he wasn't like your what people would think of a first timer. Like, he's been training for a decade plus. He took this process incredibly seriously. Not to say other people wouldn't, but it just he was already at a level above what I'd expect most first timers to be. So anyway, I wanted to give William a shout out so I didn't forget. But yeah, he got his OCB Pro card, which was immense. Yeah, I don't for you guys then for your next. Williams now finished his season so ended nicely on higher there I guess and entering the recovery phase and then into gaining basically for Aaron and with these weeks that you've got left what are your main things that you're focusing on?
- [15:53]
A
So really what we're trying to do now is obviously hold his conditioning because he's got lines in his butt still, you know, but can we start to drip feed his calories back up whilst maintaining his lower body conditioning but just trying to fill out his upper body a little bit more, just trying to give him a bit more fullness and I think if we can do that, I think that's going to do two things. One, hopefully it will help him in terms of his look making his upper body look a little bit more prominent and you know, kind of, yeah improve that side of things but then also ideally giving him a little bit more energy as Aaron's been incredible in the sense that he's handled the whole process like he's just someone who I think tolerates being lean very well. So. But one thing that we have noticed is that the last couple of maybe the last week or so leading into the wmbf there has definitely been some signs of maybe feeling a little bit more tired than he'd normally expect, a little bit more lethargy and so hopefully that's going to give him a. By having more calories, that's going to give him a bit more energy. It's going to just, just help the process make. Be a little bit more bearable kind of leading into. Yeah, leading into the pca.
- [17:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think that's smart. It's one of those things when you're on the cusp of that like gnarly condition sometimes to get more condition it is a case of extra fullness that can have been lost through the process or even maybe a little bit of muscle can be lost through the process. You can regain that as you kind of start like reversing almost at this point and doing it like that, that kind of. I forgot what it's called. I know it's progressive linear load is like the week out or a couple of weeks out. But I think there's another word for like this reverse metabolic building phase I think is what Joe Clem Gesky, I always pronounce his name wrong. Sorry, Dr. Joe. I should just say Dr. Joe. People know him by that. But yeah, he kind of called it metabolic building and so I'm very excited for you guys to be through that, because I think that's what. Based off what I saw, I'd recommend, because I think there could be a bit more pop and fullness to his physique to be gained as well, because he's already got, like, that gnarly condition, just like. Like to be able to show it even more. And that'll also make the weeks that are left a little bit more kind of comfortable, in a sense. It's still uncomfortable, but it's also interesting because I think some people deal with being lean really well. I'm not saying this is necessarily Aaron, but I certainly think there are times people deal with it really well psychologically, like, environment wise. But that doesn't always reflect in the physique. Like, sometimes their physique can be flagging and showing red flags, but their psychology is fine. And so you just have to be careful as a coach to be like, ah. And it's the same the other way. Sometimes people look their best, but they feel terrible. And you're just like, yeah, but you look so good. Please just don't, don't like, not adhere because, oh, you look really good. So it's just. Yeah, it's that balancing act at this point for you guys and.
- [18:46]
A
And that it reminds exactly what you just said. Reminds me of me where, you know, psychologically, in the last prep, you know, I was kind of like, yeah, fine, Steve, good to go. You know, it's all right. But the physique was showing, like, you know, there were some red flags there, obviously, but. No, you're absolutely right. And. But I think that's part of experience, right? And I think you've got to be. You've got to look back and be honest with yourself and go, okay, you know, maybe I. I don't know, these were the signs, but that you don't notice in the moment, but you can only see when you look back on it. So. Yeah, totally agree.
- [19:21]
B
Yeah. And everyone's so different and unique in that sense. Like, not everyone responds like a textbook would expect, I think. I don't know if we spoke about this last time, but when I peaked William for his first OCB show, he just did. He was. I think I said on. He was a little bit spilled potentially when he was on stage, and then he kind of hardened up. Whereas this time round, we kind of took all that on board. We were like, right, William, his physique just takes a bit more time to get these carbohydrates to find a home, for lack of a better word. And maybe we need a Little bit of a lighter day in terms of carbohydrate load the day before the show. And that's exactly what we did. And he was like, full, hard, crisp, everything you would want. So we. Sometimes that's not how everyone responds. Like, quite often I find, hey, I can just progressively load someone higher and higher and higher. And often people just, if they're lean enough, they don't spill. But not everyone will respond that way. And so I think it's good to have multiple shows one, so you can kind of apply those lessons. But also that's why it's good sticking, I think, with a coach that has learned your body, because then you don't want another coach having to relearn that lesson. And it's just like, oh, God. Like every coach is just having to relearn it. They make that mistake and then that client is looking for another coach. It's like, no, no, let that coach, like, apply the lessons they learned. Because I know William was pretty nervous about coming in, like, the same mistake happening again. And I was just. I just, I. I was fairly confident you wouldn't, but I just gave him full, like, there's no chance, like, you're going to come in hard. Full, amazing. And I was just like, please do. Because, like, there's always a chance something goes off. But you absolutely did. So, yeah, it's, it's. Though it makes you better as a coach having that pressure as well.
- [21:05]
A
Definitely. And again, like, I think similar to what we were saying last week about nerves, I think nerves are a sign that you care. And I think as a coach, if you're a little bit nervous for your client, I think that's a good sign because it shows that you. You care and that you've built a relationship with that client. So I, Yeah, I would only try to frame it as a bit of a positive, but just don't let it overwhelm you.
- [21:27]
B
It's funny, I was nervous seeing Aaron on stage because I cared. And then I was, oh, yeah, I bet you were nervous. And I was also nervous when Michael Kenny was on stage. I think he did the novice. I can't remember specifically the category, but Michael was a past client of mine, so I was just like, oh, it's just because I care about him and how he's feeling. And I don't know, that kind of, I guess that empathy starts kicking in. But I know we said we'd keep this to about. About, yeah, 30 minutes. So over. Should we. Do you have any kind of, like, general words around The. The show day. Anything regarding the WNBF show or could I just review the.
- [22:06]
A
I think we could just get into the pictures, I think, because, you know, we mentioned about how it was all time highest number of competitors ever, so. No, I think. Yeah, no, it was a good day. So I think we can get stuck in. I think what would be really helpful, because I was giving out the medals, I couldn't fully see the competitors, so it's really. It's a bit annoying because I can't gauge how good people are or compare them. So I have to go solely off you in the live stream. Yes.
- [22:36]
B
Yeah, I can imagine that just being a bit. How did you like, actually? Because you were giving out the rewards and last time you were kind of off the stage and you were selling like. Like being ready on a stool to sell clothing. Which did you. Which do you prefer?
- [22:50]
A
Oh, they're just so different, to be honest with you. They. You're part of the experience on stage when you're giving out the medals, but you still can't. When I was on the merchandise stand, you can't see anything really, because you're so involved talking to people, you don't get any idea for what's going on. You don't see anything. Basically. You might as well not be there. But. But at the same time, when you're giving out the merch, you're kind of connecting with family, friends, and the competitors when they're not on stage. So you're still connecting with people. Yeah, so they're just different. Sorry, I'm kind of rambling. It's just a different experience. You just. You still don't get to analyze the physiques. Whatever role you're in when you're at that point.
- [23:36]
B
If you had to pick one right now for the supernaturals, which are you picking?
- [23:41]
A
Oh, good. I'm. I'm still gonna go with medals, actually.
- [23:46]
B
Okay, cool.
- [23:47]
A
I'm still gonna go with medals.
- [23:48]
B
So if anyone watches the live stream, you will see Mike, I imagine, because you were giving out a lot of medals. Right, I'll share my screen. Where is screen share? Oh, yeah, here it is. Screen share. Here we go. Yeah, so I just wanted to give the listeners, or rather the watchers, an idea. If you're listening, then you. Yeah, sorry. But I thought I'd just overview some of the. Where are they, the overall winners, just to give people a bit of perspective on that. So which is the first here? I think this is all of them pretty much here. Because the bikini. No. Yeah, she. She left I. She leave for the overall photo. Yeah. Okay. Here's the overall winners. Anyway, so this is classic. Don't know if you saw him at all. So it's Tommy.
- [24:37]
A
I saw him from this. I obviously saw him from the side. But I have. I was just. As you brought up the. You. The YouTube. Sorry, the Instagram. Just then I was like, wow, I did not get an impression of any of these physiques whatsoever.
- [24:52]
B
Oh, that's funny. He was. I said it several times. I. I take him as a bodybuilder.
- [25:03]
A
Yeah.
- [25:04]
B
Not, not, not supremely classic. Just not that he like basically if you're a good classic bodybuilder, as we've said before, you're going to be good in bodybuilding and I think classic in first time as a novice. I don't know how I feel about it completely Mike, because as I said, posing is so like. It's something you learn after lots of competitions. So then to go in and try and do classic or like for the first time, man, you really have to have done your posing homework. But yeah, you just get. He was absolutely shredded. One of the leanest guys at the whole show, if not the leanest. Yeah. I'm just flagging through. His worst shot was his like incredible everywhere. It's just his back double bicep. I noticed just because obviously I was judging. So I was like, if there's something he's losing on, it's that back double bicep. Because I don't know if he's had an injury or something there. I'm trying to try and find a shot where. Oh, he. You go see. I see. It's just not. Everywhere else is like very complete. It just doesn't match up everywhere. And I think he struggled to pose it a little bit and I just noticed he had this scar. So I was like, oh, did he have. Is there something there? But definitely like a little bit of imbalance left to right. Almost looks like a little bit more lack development would just go a long, long way for him.
- [26:24]
A
Yeah.
- [26:24]
B
Otherwise like very, very good. I wonder how he would have fared in bodybuilding.
- [26:32]
A
Yeah, I know he dominating physique.
- [26:37]
B
Yeah, I think he. His physique won him classic more than his posing. His posing was passable. So just as some feedback generally like he could work on just because posing so important for the classic class. Anyway. So then we had Harley May lynch who took this is figure cool. So you get a bit of a. Well, she took the overall. Sorry, women's. She was the overall women's Champion, but she was in figure, so I think she actually did the UK FBA and won over there as well not long ago. And she's well clearly done a PCA class here, I don't believe. I didn't judge her class but I came back and I just like clocked her as the winner of figure. She just has the appropriate amount of leanness, I would say. Good amount of muscle on her frame for figure. So, yeah, well deserved.
- [27:41]
A
Absolutely.
- [27:42]
B
A little bit of apples and oranges in that novice figure class, it looks like. And please say anything you want to say because otherwise I'll just. I'll keep rambling through.
- [27:56]
A
Again. It was kind of hard for me to. Again, because I couldn't really see. Get a good perspective from where I was standing from the stage. It was. Yeah, it was hard, but again, you could see that. You could see that she did well and she looked good.
- [28:09]
B
So, yeah, this guy's back was wild. Daniel Williams, the overall men's physique champion. So I'm going to show you it. He was very good. He is of a standard where if he just got his posing really solid, he could be shout for like pro card. So if he does the supernaturals, he could probably come a bit tighter and wouldn't be terrible for him. But let's see if I have any. I don't know, they're just the same shots. I want to see if I can show you a back shot of his because as you can see, like V taper, tiny waist. But look at his back. Man, this doesn't even showcase it the best. Let's see if I can actually get you. Yeah, but you could just look how broad he is across. Yeah, the top, such a tiny waist, thick abs. He's not even posing, he's just standing there. I actually don't know if this video even. I want to get something that shows his back. See, maybe he'll pose in this one. The fullness to his physique as well. Yeah, I think he's just standing there. Again, he needs to show off his back. It's like absolutely wild. You tell he does his deadlifts. I imagine he's very strong on a deadlift because he just has this turtle shell of a back.
- [29:32]
A
It was funny you mentioned about the deadlifts because in one of those pictures I was like, oh, his arms are quite long. Like, I can imagine, like you can just see him being good at deadlifting.
- [29:42]
B
We need Daniel, some back shots. What is going on?
- [29:47]
A
I'm so upset.
- [29:48]
B
There you go. Oh, there you go, oh, is this actually going to be the back? Is he going to open up? Oh no, but you kind of get a bit of a gauge, just absolute wham. Back, like total shallow back. Anyway, let me get some of the other overall winners then we have where am I? This is. Move me along. So the bikini overall, this Martina Lorenzoni, she was definitely someone not from the UK because I've seen some of her posts were coming up for me. But yeah, she'd already done really well in a previous show here but she came in like she's just quintessential bikini really. Right level of condition, really good load body development, nice wide back, capped off shoulders, nice level of kind of condition through the abdominals but no striations. Not that level of condition. That is more kind of for the heavier muscled classes and more conditioned classes. So yeah, she was very good.
- [31:02]
A
She was definitely one that. Even from the side I was like, I can see her winning.
- [31:06]
B
Yeah, just has that nice like quintessential like long limbs and like up and down just. Yeah, presented really, really well. So well deserved winner there then. We have. Yeah, here we go. I'm pretty sure this guy Rohan was in Haron's class.
- [31:31]
A
I don't think he was actually. I feel like he wasn't because he did two classes.
- [31:37]
B
He did classic and bodybuilding. He got second in classic and then he won one. Bodybuilding. He talks about it somewhere. I can't remember specifics right now but just very heavily muscled, tiny waist.
- [31:54]
A
Yeah, his chest like I remember like his, his most muscular and some of his other shots. I was like, wow, his, his chest is full.
- [32:02]
B
Yeah, really, really full chest. I think he was really challenging. Oh no, obviously it was just. I was like, he's really challenging for the overall, you know. Of course he flipping was. He was in the overall. He won it. Yeah, just very good bodybuilder, huge potential going forward as well. But it was a good example of someone not winning classic but winning bodybuilding. Right, yeah. Which was unfortunately for him or fortunately depending on how you want to see it because actually I don't think he would have taken the classic overall was his posing just wasn't quite as there as the, the other individual. But it was very tight work. We pulled them out for a side by side comparison on their own. I think that was the only class that happened actually, so it was really, really tight between them. I think that's it from the overalls, right?
- [32:59]
A
Yeah. One question I did have actually was, was there any body who's posing? You did Think like, yeah, spot on. He's got great posing. Is there anyone immediately that stands out or not really?
- [33:14]
B
No, no one stands out as immediately. I actually think the. The bikini was very, very good overall, actually. The shout out to the only female bodybuilder. Yeah, K that came or K lifts here. Her posing was actually very good for bodybuilding. This was the guy that took the classic class off Rohan Roy. But his posing was very good. But I still think there's. I don't know if he was posy in a particular way because he was like. It was this heel, lots of this. And I was like, oh, it's throwing me a little bit. But he had very classic lines and just needs a little bit more condition, I think to be challenging for those top, top, top spots. But yeah, I didn't know if he was on the heel. I gave him that feedback. I don't know if he was on his heel to like show detail or try and get it there. But yeah, it was kind of throwing it a little bit. But his posing was very good, to be honest. One of the best in classic. Absolutely. Anyway, I think that's probably enough me sharing my screen. Do you think?
- [34:20]
A
Yeah, but. But again, interesting. So as a first timer competition, the fact that there wasn't loads of people whose posing was stand out again, Creed.
- [34:31]
B
We'd expect that. Really.
- [34:32]
A
Yeah. You'd expect that with it being a first timer competition. So it makes sense. I wonder if we're going to see any of the people that competed at the first time as this past weekend at the Supernaturals. I wonder if anyone. If it's given anyone the bug to try and hold on a little bit.
- [34:47]
B
I expect so. It's tough though, because when is the Supernaturals is it. I don't want to say, you know,
- [34:53]
A
probably it's the 3rd and 4th of October.
- [34:55]
B
Yeah. I was thinking October, so. Man. June, July, August. That's a long time to. That's like a. Almost a contest prep for some people. Length of time. It's not actually. That's a bit short for a comp prep. Half a comp prep for sure. If not three fourths of one. So yeah, there might be some that might. Especially those who are like on the cusp of like conditioned but not like all the way. There could be a really nice. They might take a bit of a break now for like a couple of weeks and then decide to really slowly take it off. Yeah, I think there's people there that could be competitive in the open. Supernaturals for sure. But for example like that the classic winner, he to try and hold on to come into Supernaturals, like he's already so peeled, like that's just not going to. Whereas the men's physique guy possibly come in like again, take a bit of a break, come in. I think he could be real competitive and work on that posing a little bit more, go a long, long way. But I'd expect that general feedback for like first timers is like posing and presentation. Little things like, hey, pull your trunks up if you're a bodybuilder, make sure that they're complementing the physique, like stage presence. Something that a lot of like, like you don't have initially. You kind of like in the bright light you're like, oh, like I need to hit this pose. You look a bit lost. That doesn't always help you there. And just those little like transitions and things, especially for classic where that, that those like little details matter quite a lot. I noticed. And this happens every single time. But like guys not staying on their quads and that's something I remember struggling with as well because it is quite fatiguing. So yeah, just I think everyone who stood on that stage should be really proud and I'm proud to be part of what the WF UK are doing. That live stream was a real level up and also with the scorecards, which is why I sent you. I don't know if you checked it already, but yeah, I basically sent you Aaron's class and the scorecards there. So yeah, it's nice to be able to have that as a competitor like immediately too.
- [37:05]
A
This is just like an extra thing and correct me if I'm wrong, next year if they could almost break down the score even more in terms of condition, muscularity, etc, I'd love to see that because I think the scorecard was just. It just had the points and so you didn't know where those points were coming from. Is that because you know they won it on muscularity, symmetry, conditioning, etc? I'd love to get that breakdown a little bit more potentially just because of you, like the nitty gritty, like getting into the details a little bit more.
- [37:39]
B
Yeah, I think that would be useful if not having that available during a live stream, at least maybe on the back end, maybe if the scorecards are made available or if, when. Because I think the WMBF will send like a general feedback to each competitor. I think they do that. Am I right? I have a feeling they do that. And so then there's the opportunity to be like hey, this is where like you scored higher or lower or whatever. Or if someone comes to me, I'll break that down for them. Why they placed in the class where they placed because sometimes it just helps. As an example, there were some classes where I remember in bikini, the top three were all quite tall and then the people who placed outside of that were substantially shorter. And it just makes it harder to compare. Well, pose to pose when the best in the class are taller. I think it can happen in bodybuilding talent talk too as well. If you're like very tall and everyone else is like short, kings have been like, oh man, I just look like this lanky giant compared to these other individuals. So it's just nice as a competitor to have competitor to understand that level of context. And that's why like it's good to do several shows and like get yourself out there, get experience, so on and so forth. But yeah, I don't think I have anything else to talk about it again.
- [38:58]
A
It's really cool, it's really cool just to hear your thoughts as a judge because this is stuff where when you don't have that context and you don't have, have the reasoning behind what judges are thinking you. I think that's why people throw tantrums or they get upset because they don't understand. But when you hear the types of things that you're saying, then you're like, ah, okay, now that you've explained it, I can see now it makes sense. And so yeah, I just, the more communication I think that people can get from the judges, not, not that the judges aren't doing enough, but just I think when people can understand a little bit more clearer, it takes out that, that sort of like conflict, if you know what I mean.
- [39:37]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because people like to say obviously bodybuilding is subjective, which to some extent it is, but there's objective criteria and we are working to an objective criteria as a judge and we have a panel that kind of it by having different like slight subjectivities across there, I guess you're kind of coming together to be as objective as possible towards like that objective criteria. And yeah, there's some things you just, you only pick up by sat, being sat in the judge's chair that other people might not necessarily pick up on. One other thing I do want to say is also men's physique. Just because there's so many guys who do men's physique now wearing appropriate bottom half attire.
- [40:17]
A
I could see that from my end. I was like, his shorts are Too baggy. They're wearing it wrong. I'm like, come on. But again, first time is. It's that for a reason.
- [40:28]
B
Yeah. And it's just hard because presentation is such a big part of men's physique. So if you come, you don't quite hit the poses, like, properly and you have like the wrong board shorts on, like, it can start costing you placings where it's just like, hey, there were people who came in and they were polished on and on it with their posing, they were doing the whatever, the snake noise.
- [40:50]
A
Yeah.
- [40:51]
B
They were revving up their arm and what have you and that. They were on it and you could see how much they wanted it. And then there are others who. Yeah, I mean, comparable or better physique sometimes, but not able to just represent that as best as possible on stage, which, again, you kind of expect that to happen a bit as a first timer or novice and just everyone's getting so good. You have people who, again, they're first timers, but honestly, they could stand up in an open class and be competitive. So it's tough.
- [41:18]
A
It's tough out there, definitely. But, hey, that's what we want. We want the standard to be high, we want this kind of. That's what it's all about. And I think that's what the WMBF's renowned for now. Well, it's renowned for being the best of the best. That's why people come to the wmbf. So, yeah, that's what it's all about.
- [41:37]
B
I will say final thing is people should definitely check the live stream because we obviously, we've shown the creme de la creme, We've shown the overall winners who, in their own right, all of them could go into open classes and be very competitive. So if you're thinking, oh, my God, these are first timers or novice, and there's no way I can stand up against them. Watch the live stream, look at everyone who was on stage and you'll get a better picture because those are real mix. Right. So, yeah, I think I just want to say that as well, because I think sometimes people are like, oh, there's no chance I could compete. It's like, no, no, you definitely could. Yeah. So there's a range of competition. Should we get to questions?
- [42:13]
A
Let's get to questions. We've probably gone over the limit we've set for ourselves.
- [42:17]
B
Yeah, I knew we would. It's my fault. I'm a rambler. I'll ask you the first question. Mike. Aurora Matteson. Asks, does too many steps stunt leg growth? I see a lot of coaches recommending under 10k a day during gaining phases.
- [42:35]
A
I personally, I can't see any reason why too many steps would stunt leg growth. Because ultimately if you are in a sufficient calorie surplus, if you are getting in sufficient stimulus to your leg training, there shouldn't be any reason. The only reason where I could see that happening is if your physical activity levels is so high it's causing you not to either be at maintenance or in a calorie deficit. That would be the only reason for me personally. I don't know if you have any different thoughts there, Steve.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah, I think it would just show itself. I'm just surprised that I've never seen a coach Recommend less than 10 steps a 10k steps a day because it's more than that would stunt leg growth. If you're progressively overloading your training like your legs are growing really, really well, you could always try pulling it back and seeing if they progressed even faster. But 10k is really not that many steps. I think most people should be shooting for that or a little bit less. And going a bit over that I don't think is a problem. It's only when extremes occur and people aren't accommodated to it and it may be flares up hips or knees or something like that, but then that's like once you're accommodated to a relatively high step count, I don't think it's a problem. Like you said, so long as other things, the rest of the context is in place.
- [43:59]
A
Definitely. Again what came out through there is again, let's avoid extremes here guys. But so well this, so this is new. So James Johnson, Dr. James underscore ATP asked a question. I think this is the first time you've ever asked a question in here, James. So hi there. Thanks for asking a question. So he asks, top three bodybuilding shows on each of your bucket lists for the next season and why do you have three? Do I have three? I would not really know basically. So obviously as we've discussed before, Supernaturals is top of the list for me. Why? Just because again everything that we've talked about so far in terms of the WNBF just got a very big love for the wnbf. It's. It's part of my goals to want to. It's always been a goal of mine to compete at Worlds and to. To turn pro. So the Supernaturals is just obviously high up on my list there. I think interestingly the other one would be the NBW I think that second, just because I'm so curious, it's a, it's a new federation, it's new. So I'm just, I'd love to have a look at it and I've heard such, such good things. So I'd love to go in there, open minded to experience something. And then the third one would be an international show of some kind and I'm really open to what that international show is. I think I'd love it to just be something similar to yourself like we discussed last week.
- [45:34]
B
Yeah, no, I was just gonna say we discussed this, didn't we? Because I mean I was actually gonna say for me it's the Supernaturals just because it's home turf. Right, yeah, it's just. And the WNBF UK is such a high standard, such a well run show and it'll just be nice to, to have so many people around you as well who are all like to know you know them. It's just like a, yeah, home, home turf advantage in a sense, like take advantage of that. That'd be fun. I'd be quite nervous though to, to do it as well, kind of like Josh Croggan did it last year with men's physique. But I definitely want to do that. And then, yeah, as we discussed the Wahala is, is it the weekend after? I think it is, yeah. The Germany show, just a high caliber of athlete, really well run show. So that would be quite cool to do and if we could do that together. And I kind of just had it in my head that I would try my hat at like a gambit of as many European pro shows that were somewhat available. I actually don't know which European affiliates with WNBF have pro shows available, so I'd have to research that a little bit. James and as I've said before, the nbw, I've only heard fantastic things from AJ show there that I think. I don't know if they're a federation. I think it's affiliated. The NBW is Natural Bodybuilding Worldwide and it's a show run by that company, which is AJ's company but they're affiliated through the UK FBA. So it's like that's the federation, I believe, but not that that really matters. Just in case people are kind of thinking is that a new federation? I would like to do that show again. We'd be there together to be able to do that. And yeah, I'm not set on doing worlds if I can do sufficiently like great pro European WMBF shows just. It depends kind of where Worlds is as well. And also depends if I want to be a coach and. Or a competitor, like at Worlds, because sometimes it can be nice just to have to be coaching. So, yeah, they're probably three, but I haven't thought about it sufficient. I haven't thought about it the amount that I feel like I should have for James to have asked, if you know what I mean.
- [47:49]
A
Yeah. But I. I think we've talked about it a lot in previous episodes as well and yeah. That everything that you said sounds. Makes sense.
- [47:58]
B
Maybe a PCA show, if we can find a PCA show to go and do, that might be quite fun. I've just heard good things. I just like to experience different stages. So they always do a really good job with their, like, individual, like highlighting athletes, their presentation on stage. And I always think their lighting looks really good and I've heard good things about. They're apparently very efficient with their show running. So at least it wouldn't be like a, you know, you're going to be kind of in and out type of deal. So that might be quite nice. I've never competed there, so I would be interested. So I'll be interested to hear your experience or Aaron's experience at the pca. He does.
- [48:33]
A
Yeah, we'll let you know. And I think we talked about this before, where they're kind of like the ocb where they've got so many shows now. You're. We're. We're bound to find at least one that is, you know, both local and, you know, fit. You know, fits everything that we kind of want it to be. So. Which is great.
- [48:50]
B
And now you've mentioned the ocv, maybe the OCV as well, because Rob's doing that this year, so I'm going to be there. You're obviously not available, so I'll. Our report on how that went and yeah. Whether or not that will also be a stage in future. So lots of different shows.
- [49:07]
A
Yeah, I mean that would be perfect for you because if it remains where it is right now, which is in Houston Square, it would literally be just get the train waltz in. Yeah, it'd be so convenient for you.
- [49:19]
B
Yeah, it'd be super easy. So feels like I might as well just do it.
- [49:24]
A
Yeah, definitely. Cool.
- [49:26]
B
And so the next question is from Felucio. How often, slash when, where do you look to make volume bumps within your programs for clients when you're working with them remotely?
- [49:40]
A
So I think our general philosophy sort of at the Moment now is we want to kind of find a volume which the, the client can, can consistently sustainably manage. So we don't necessarily increase volume over the course of a mesocycle. It's more a case of kind of like finding that sweet spot and then holding it. If I guess the main things that I would look for if we needed to increase it would be a couple of things. One, are they recovering on time? Do they feel like the stimulus is maybe lacking Somewhat. You know, they feel like. Actually I just, I feel that I need a little bit more. There's kind of that there. That. And then thirdly, do they have the time? I think that's crucial. Do they have the mental capacity, time capacity, like I said so. And also that we can really. That we know confidently that the quality is there. So again that's. And in fact that's probably the most important thing that, that we can confidently say like right, the training quality is of the highest possible standard first. And like I said all those other things that I just mentioned, recovery capacity for time, et cetera, all of those other blocks are in place right now. We can consider increasing volume.
- [51:02]
B
Very well said. The only minor things I would add is if I am looking to add it somewhat depends a little bit person to person. But sometimes I think just a good, good idea is to add to things where it's not a significant. And what I mean by that is like more isolation work as opposed to compound work if that's appropriate. And then also potentially within towards the end of a session versus at the start of a session. I tend to get clients to a point where we talk through all of this and I will auto regulate it with them. And where we're at Mike, is you just take the reins on that completely and then if you ever are unsure, we can talk through things. And I tend to get clients to that point where they can actually do it better than I can, but only once. Like you said, quality is there and they understand. Right. It needs to be that this set here is going to benefit me not just here today and it's not going to hurt any of this workout here today. And also I'm going to be able to recover from it within the week and sustain it over time time and with the understanding that it's diminishing. So like hey, if I add a set here, it's not like it adds just as much as those previous sets. It's diminishing return. So for some people it's just not. It depends on their goals and what they're trying to achieve. I'll be more pushy with people that are like, you know, they have ambitions, like yourself to turn pro. I'm like, well, you better be for working freaking hard in the gym, then, like, at your, like, really pushing your limits. Whereas for others, it's just not necessary. And. And it could lead them to burnout. So, yeah, no.
- [52:37]
A
Cool. Love those extra points. Right? So the last bow asks, what are exercises other people love but you guys personally dislike or never vibed with and
- [52:49]
B
why I'm laughing because I'm like, mike's gonna say nothing. I love everything. And that's fine. If that is truly how you feel, that's brilliant. And I'm happy for you. I'm trying to think. Think for me. Do any come to, like, off the
- [53:05]
A
top of your head to you machine adduction?
- [53:09]
B
To be honest, I actually. That's one exercise, like, I don't like. I haven't got a strong affiliation for it, but it's so easy. I'm just like, cool. I just get to sit here and do this. But I'm trying. What are some really popular exercises? I can't really even think of anything that's like, oh, I've got one maybe on just thinking, like, rack pulls.
- [53:30]
A
Yeah.
- [53:30]
B
I just don't really understand them as being a sensible application, especially, like, above the knee. Rack pulls. Yeah.
- [53:39]
A
I saw someone doing that a couple of weeks ago, actually, and it was just looked all fatigue, no stimulus. Like, it was just the smallest range of movement. Loads of weight on the bar. And I was like, hmm, interesting kind of thing. So I was like, like, yeah, but another one. I've personally never tried it, so I probably can't say, but I always. I see a lot of people doing, like, a lateral. A cuffed lateral raise where they're lying on a bench and they're kind of going, like, doing that y raise. I've never done it myself personally, but I. I see people doing a lot, and I'm like, okay, it's just quite a setup.
- [54:18]
B
Like, I think it's probably a really good movement, and I've done it it but lying on the ground, and I just don't love doing it lying on the ground because, yeah, it's not a spotless gym. I'm just like, I could just stand and do this, but if I could, like, if it was an easy setup, I think I would like. I think it could be a very good. There's so many lateral raise variations if you want. Very similar. Many of them. Oh, the one I can Think of one that doesn't work well for me is. I know you like this one. It's the, like, side leaning dumbbell, but behind the body. Body. For me, when I go behind the body, my shoulder does not like it either side. It just all instability all in the joints, connective tissue. Ooh. Doesn't like it at all. So that's one I can think of. But, yeah, I can't really think of any that I've, like, tried and not vibed with particularly that others seem to really enjoy.
- [55:08]
A
Yeah, I think I've kind of. Yeah, I've mentioned all the other ones that like. Yeah, no, I can't think of any others.
- [55:17]
B
Yeah, I can't. No, I. Most things I jive with pretty well, to be honest. Cool. Okay, let's go. Right, next question is from G. Campson. Do you ever consider having health professionals on the podcast to talk about the health promotion side of lifting? I guess that's more for me.
- [55:38]
A
Yeah.
- [55:40]
B
Not really. Just because I feel like the health benefits of lifting are great and they're a bonus for a lot of the listeners and us, but they're not like, why we do it. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't get into the gym because it was the health benefits. I got into the gym because I wanted to look jacked. And it's just like the health benefits come alongside that. And to be honest, I think myself and you and probably a number of the listeners might even. We certainly, certainly invest more than is necessary for the health benefits. We could do way less. So I just. The podcast isn't really like, my niche is natural competitive or people that aspire to potentially compete or in a physique that's above average. It's not really aimed for such individuals. So, no, I haven't really considered it. I'm not sure the vast majority of listeners would be. I don't know, maybe they'd enjoy it. But when you hear that. When I hear about a podcast that talks about the health promotion side of lifting, I'm like, well, I, I don't. I, I just, I. I don't need to know it. Like, I'm not interested in that.
- [56:47]
A
I also just think there's so many podcasts now that do do that. Like you. Yeah, I, I can. I don't know. My head just goes to lots of podcasts that, yeah, already do that sort of thing that just look at general health more than anything. So, yeah, I think you're right. Sticking to what you love to do. And also, you can't Fake passion as well. Like you're passionate about getting jacked. And if you had someone on that you weren't passionate about it, you wouldn't bring out your best self. It's kind of like what you were saying a couple of episodes ago about having Wesley this is on. Or someone. It's like you don't want to just get someone on and ask them rubbish questions. You want to get them on and be genuinely interested and have something that you genuinely want to ask them. Otherwise, it's just.
- [57:31]
B
Just.
- [57:31]
A
Yeah, it's not going to be great.
- [57:33]
B
Yeah, it's like if someone wanted me to go into, like, powerlifting, I just. That's when. Whenever I bring, like, people on who have done research on hypertrophy and strength, I'm like, just focus on the hypertrophy stuff. I don't care about the stunt. Uh, Mike, I'm gonna ask you the next question. Cause that was all to me. Uz Uzi B 10316. Do you recommend 4 to 5 liters of water per day? I find I'm constantly peeing, even up to two liters. I'm up three to five times a night. Is food H2O included? I feel like we answered something similar not that long ago.
- [58:07]
A
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure we did last week. But I don't give people a specific amount of fluid to drink because ultimately I think it's good to go by your. Your urinations. Like having two to three clear urinations per day, at least roughly. And going by that, I think there is. I always think back to you and your prep where when you were doing that water load on the water manipulation, that really messed up with your bladder. And I think that when people start to do extreme things again when it comes to water, I think it can really mess with their bladder. And I think that that can last a little while. So I would just always say just try to find. And I would recommend to UC here that just try to find a water level that feels sustainable for you. Where you're having kind of that maybe two, three, clear. You least clear urinations a day. It feels sustainable. Just give yourself time. Let the body habituate to that intake and hopefully, you know, that would, you know, it will kind of stabilize and again, try to also tape your fluids. I think we've also spoken about this in previous episodes. You, you know, try to have the majority of it towards the beginning of the day and then kind of taper on towards the end of the day and hopefully that will really minimize peeing. At night, it probably still may happen. That's a very individual thing. Again, you always get up, you know, one to two times a night to pee. I never get up during the night to pee. So it's just a genetic thing. So yeah, it just might be you like that. The individual Joel, very well said.
- [59:50]
B
The only thing I will include here is it's not just water, it's all fluids. Just because he. They specifically asked about water and so recognize diet sodas, teas, coffees, like it all adds up. Same with food. So if you are consuming a lot of fruit, like water, like watery veg, cucumbers, this sort of thing, soups, what have you, that all counts as well. And it's exactly as you said. There is no need to give it a precise prescription here because fluid is very individual and it can even vary on like a day to day basis. Or when we go to Bali in about a month's time, like we're going to be excreting far more sweat, sweating a lot more. And so we probably need to hydrate more but also probably need to get in more electrolytes. But like think about that a little bit more too because yeah, if you're peeing a ton and the issue with peeing a ton and all clear is like you are peeing out electrolytes and so that can and not be ideal for you either. So. Yeah, anyway, I think you answered the question well.
- [60:53]
A
Nice. So our guy Remy Saka asks if you could have any three IFBB pros on the podcast, who would they be? I do remember, Steve, you were saying that C Bum could be on the list. Any others?
- [61:14]
B
I'm not as into like I follow the IFBB and I follow the Mr. Olympia, but I'm not like a fanboy of any of the the guys there as such.
- [61:25]
A
Yeah.
- [61:26]
B
So I've had Wesley on who I wanted to have on. I enjoy his content. I think he's a great guy. Obviously had Rough Diesel on.
- [61:35]
A
Yeah.
- [61:35]
B
Terrence again, I think he's a great guy. Have interacted with him. So I, I care more about like hey, I had relationships with them. They listen to the podcast anyway. So yeah, I don't have like, I would like to have Jared back on the podcast. That'll be cool as an IFBB pro, but he is always challenging to get on the podcast. So Jared Feather from Renaissance Periodization. Outside of that, yeah, C Bum would be interesting to chat to. So I wouldn't mind that Ryan Terry has been requested. So it would be nice to be able to accommodate that and I think Ryan comes across quite well from the content that I've seen from him. But I'd have to do some research into some people that I think are quite interesting to bring them on as, like, individuals. People that spring to mind would be. And I mean, are they IFBB pros now because, like, C. Bum is no longer competitive, like, competing, but, like, J. Cutler would be interesting. Phil Heath, I think would be interesting to talk to. So, yeah, they're kind of some of the. The names that come to mind. There's no one current that, like, springs to mind that I'd love to talk to.
- [62:45]
A
What about is his name Ramon, who won the classic?
- [62:49]
B
Ramondino.
- [62:50]
A
Ramondino. His English isn't very good, granted, but if his English was maybe better and do you think there was. Might be anything.
- [62:57]
B
Know anything about him?
- [62:59]
A
I. Yeah, I mean, he is essentially, I would say he's almost the equivalent of a Jay Cutler for classic because he's always come second to Seabum. And I guess what I don't. The. What I might be curious is about is, like, how did he manage that? And yeah, how did. He kind of was able to manage that but stay in the game and not quit. And what was really nice is I think it was the. At the Olympia last year when he won, when they were backstage, you know, C. Bum came up to Dino and he, like, congratulated them and they hugged and stuff like that. So. So that was quite cool. But, yeah, again, it's hard.
- [63:34]
B
I'll say. If there's anyone. And I agree with you that that would be interesting. Mike Summerfeld.
- [63:39]
A
Yeah.
- [63:41]
B
Because I do follow him and, yeah, he just comes across as a really genuine guy. And I love his physique. I think he's got an awesome physique. So he would be interesting. I think particularly what I'd be interested to ask him is about, like, how he dealt with the height and weight situation, because clearly when he came second to Seabum, he was quite a bit heavier than what he's competing at now. And how did he manage to keep his physique so classic whilst having to lose that weight? Because, yeah, he looks. I love his physique. It flows so nicely, man.
- [64:13]
A
I know. Yeah, it's so good.
- [64:16]
B
Right, next question for you from Patrick Morris. Mike had sore elbows. They're okay now. Now my shoulder and bicep are very sore. Hurts to curl. Bicep tendonitis. Treatment stank. Thanks.
- [64:29]
A
So thank you so much for this, Patrick. And so bicep tendonitis, it Depends where you get it. So you can get two places where you can get bicep problems. So one is what they call distal bicep tendonitis, where it's obviously more towards the elbow. And then you can get what's called more proximal bicep tendinopathy, where it's more in at the shoulder. So. So you mentioned, obviously, Patrick, that it's shoulder and bicep. So I'm going to assume that it's more proximal bicep tendinopathy. So there's a couple of things that to consider here.
- [65:05]
B
So
- [65:07]
A
in a lot of patient populations that I see, bicep tendonitis can sometimes be secondary to the shoulder not functioning correctly. So when things like the rotate, when there's issues around, maybe the rotator cuff or just maybe general shoulder issues, the bicep will do more work, work to compensate for the rotator cuff. So often we will say, like, right, let's try to do maybe some shoulder activation work, some shoulder rotator cuff work, to make sure that everything around the shoulder is functioning optimally so that the bicep can then just calm down. However, given that in our population, bodybuilders, et cetera, because sometimes we can be doing a lot of volume for the biceps, we can just literally overload the tendon and there can be that inflammation of the tendon. So there's a couple of things. I often say this. If. If the tendon has. Is really acute and it's kind of flared up really dramatically, one of the best things that you can do is what I call aggressively resting or aggressively offloading. So just for maybe a week or so, you might just deload your biceps completely back off arm work, and as frustrating that is. But if you really aggressively rest, sometimes it can calm down super duper quickly. Um, however, if that's not the case, and it's something that's maybe just gradually built up, and it's just built up and it's gotten to the point now where it's not great at all. What we then might have to consider is regressing volume a little bit to the stage where it's manageable, it's not making the pain worse, and then maybe incorporating some isometrics or eccentrics. So something that I've sometimes found has worked actually really well for a proximal bicep tendinopathy is something like an eccentric polymer up where you're starting at the top, so you could do it with a lap pull down as well. You're doing something like an underhand lat pull down or pull up, but you're just doing the eccentric portion up. And sometimes that can work really well. But what I would say first is start off with some, maybe isometric, start off with an aggressive, bit of an aggressive offload and then work your way into those eccentrics. So bit of a whistle stop tour there, but hopefully that made sense.
- [67:25]
B
Sense. We're gonna have to start charging people.
- [67:29]
A
I know that was like a whole physio consultation.
- [67:31]
B
It was like a whole consultation. And I imagine it's quite hard when it's as broad as this. You need to have like a back and forth a lot of the time to like dive into things. We have just over 20 minutes and quite a number of questions, so we might have to somewhat go quick fire on these last ones.
- [67:47]
A
Mike, let's go back and forth. Let's do like you, me, you, me, me.
- [67:52]
B
Okay. Oh, I'm going to struggle with that. I bet.
- [67:54]
A
All right. Well, your guy, Jared. Hey, Jared. So Jared asks, is there a limit to how many shows a competitor can do within a season from a stress or physical standpoint?
- [68:08]
B
This is nice. I think we can probably answer this relatively quickly. Clearly there's not. There have been people who have done a stupid number of shows and seem to deal with it just fine. But what I can say is from my personal experience, because to be competitive on stage, you need a certain level of condition. That level of condition is not sustainable generally. And you might be able to come. You might still be digging down into it, but basically I kind of frame this as you're on fire, you're below your intervention point of body fat, so you can only hang out here so long and still be at your kind of best. That might be a four to six week period for a lot of individuals. Some people might be able to stretch out further, but I think most people's sweet spot is probably four to six weeks. And then in that time, I think about four shows is a. A good number of shows. I think two to four for most competitors is a good range to think about landing in. The more experienced you are, definitely you could potentially push four, maybe even more, but especially the less experienced, probably towards the lower end of that. But it does depend person to person.
- [69:11]
A
I won't add anything there.
- [69:13]
B
Okay, cool. If you do have anything you can. But Tudor, what are the downsides of online coaching as a coach and as a client perspective too? Oh, you're the perfect person to ask, Mike, because you've been online coaching a little bit less time than I have. And you also do it not full time, so I think that'll be interesting. And then obviously you're, well, you're a client as well. But I've also had a coach.
- [69:39]
A
So I would say from a coaching perspective, it's not really a downside, but it's something that you've got to learn to do very well is having a structure, structure and being very disciplined with your boundaries. So this is something that I'm trying to work on right now because there is probably you always want to do your best for your clients and in some senses you could potentially always be on. There's always maybe an email that drops in through your inbox and you want to respond to it and you want to respond to get to people, you want to get back to people really quickly. And it's very easy for life to become work and to not have that kind of switch off. And so, but whereas when you're, when you're employed, you kind of have that natural structure, for a lot of cases, I would say you've got that structure and built. You kind of, you start work, you have your lunch break and then you go home or whatever, but you don't have that when you're self employed. You've got to enforce that on yourself a little bit more. So like I said, that's not really a downside, but it's something that you've just got to learn to do a little bit more. We also discussed this maybe two episodes ago ago, where it can be very lonely. So if you're someone who likes to be around other people, likes to be in a team, I wouldn't say online coaching's for you because you're very much on your own to a certain extent. Obviously, like you and me, we chat, but there is a large extent to where we're kind of operating a bit on own. And like we said with you, Steve, you don't have those immediate mentors always that you can call upon. So again, that's probably a, a, a downside, if you will, of that. And then just from a client perspective, again, I think a, a possible drawback is when you're with someone in person, there is that little bit more again, maybe motivation. Like maybe if you're kind of like, oh, you're a bit lackluster going to the gym and then you see your trainer in person, you're like, okay. Whereas you need to have a little bit more maybe self autonomy in the moment. You know that coach can't be with you holding your hand. So if you need a little bit of handholding, again, online coaching might not be quite for you and there is a little bit of a maybe delay where you maybe make a mistake. But you wait until you check in potentially. But you can still contact us. But yeah, those be kind of some immediate thoughts that come to my mind there. Yeah.
- [72:02]
B
All right, well said. Nothing to add.
- [72:04]
A
Love. Love it. Okay, so tuly underscore melody underscore fit asks. Hi, guys. Do you have any advice on how to build up hammies and glutes? If I lift, run and bike, I struggle to get that fuller look for the bottom half.
- [72:21]
B
Hi, Julie. I think this is the first question we've had from you, so, yeah, absolutely. Probably your bread and butt arm is going to be hip injection. So think about Romanian deadlifts, good mornings. Those patterns where you're pushing the hips back, keeping them high, keeping a neutral spine and lowering the load. That's going to stretch your hamstrings, glutes really, really well. It's going to grow them nicely and then including some knee flexion. So seated lying, leg curl, and then I would also probably include some abduction. So seated abduction, that machine, and then potentially some isolated glute work as well. So you might do some hip thrust thrusts or some kickbacks. And I think there's some of the things you're going to want to focus on, to be quite honest, and progress those over time with good technique, train them hard and make sure you're not always trying to lose weight. Definitely go through periods of time where your weight is at maintenance. Even. Even a time at a slight surplus is going to help as well. And I would train the glutes and hamstrings twice per week and look to progress your lifts over time. I think that's the biggest fundamental feedback I can give. Don't know if you have anything.
- [73:33]
A
Not really. Yeah, no. That hits all the boxes.
- [73:37]
B
Frtort asks, is strong anterior pelvic tilt a risk for people? Sorry? A risk for possible injury by improper bracing. Do you think it can be impacting growth of certain muscle groups?
- [73:53]
A
Short answer. No, as far as I'm aware, and I'm really happy for some people to maybe send me some literature on this, but as far as I'm aware, there's no strong evidence to suggest that anterior pelvic tilt is strongly related to injury risk. The strongest risk factors for injury are if you've had an injury before and potential strength of that tissue. Those are the biggest risk factors. I think other risk factors might be things like maybe age, etc. But apart from that, everything else is very, very small. So I would not get too caught in the weeds about these sorts of things. And also that also pertains to certain muscle groups as well. So what I would focus more on FRA is just your maybe mind muscle connection. Do you connect well with. With muscle groups and if there is a certain muscle group where maybe the mind muscle connection isn't quite as good, just play around with different exercises, play around with techniques and executions that feel that give you the best stimulus and that would be great. I would not focus on any of the other stuff.
- [75:01]
B
Well said. Nothing to add. The back and forth is working. We can keep this. We can go.
- [75:08]
A
You might actually, because I think that. Oh, no, sorry, it's me. So Amon Ruik asks, hi, Magic Mike and Steve Reeves. Oh, not had that name before.
- [75:20]
B
So you know Steve Reeves?
- [75:23]
A
Yeah, I do, but I've not heard someone call you Steve.
- [75:25]
B
Okay, yeah, I was gonna. It's because you said, I've not heard that name before. I was like, oh, you will know Steve Reeves.
- [75:29]
A
Anyway, so as experienced lifters, what have been the biggest changes to your training in recent years?
- [75:38]
B
Very briefly, I would just say not assuming anything about my body body and pushing it harder and taking the feedback I'm getting for me as an individual. And so that's one which is a bit convoluted way of saying it, but that's how I'm putting it. And then the other one would be thinking more about the range of motion of particular muscles within exercises versus thinking about the range of motion of that exercise in for itself. So, for example, for me on squat patterns, thinking about, okay, when have I hit Max ROM for my quads versus Max ROM for the squat pattern? Which isn't the same thing always. They're probably two of the biggest.
- [76:25]
A
I would say I'm pretty similar. I think the only slight extension I would add to that is not being too caught up in how an exercise looks externally. Because sometimes if you were to look at my lateral raises or chest work, you might think, oh, my God, that looks awful. But from a stimulative perspective, like, oh, it feels great. It feels natural in a way. Like, it just feels natural to me. So that's something that I would say is also a change for me as well.
- [76:54]
B
I'll ask the next one and answer it quickly if that's okay. And if you have anything else. Aaron has asked, any plans for a team meet up this year? Yes. Mike has actually put a date to me, which I Need to. I was actually going to come back to you on. On during today to discuss but it's likely to be end of August, early September time and then probably one around Christmas as well. It's just that because of. I don't know, it just got. Time just went by and because we're going to be in Bali it means summer is going to be a bit of a challenge in terms of merch. I actually would like to do some merch for those meetups and I think I can get some done by Christmas for sure. It'd be nice to have those available. Some hoodies or sweatshirt, something like that I think would be really good. Great. So yeah, I would like to do that. I just need to pull a finger out. So thank you for, for prompting Aaron and being interested. I'll ask you the next one Mike from Geraldine Harder. Oh, okay. Yeah, you ask I guess.
- [77:54]
A
So Gerald asks Steve, how and why did you become a WMBF judge? Can you explain the process to becoming a judge?
- [78:03]
B
Yeah, so I was. Was approached by the president of the WMBF UK to see if I would be interested and so I was because I think it sounds interesting and I wanted to get that judging experience and perspective and in terms of the, the process then I went through like a training session which they presented some like of the judging criteria, how it works. There are kind of expectations of the judge, so on and so forth and then I actually don't believe I shadow judged first. I think I was put right in the deep end and was judging but this time and every time the judges are always, their scores are always assessed to see if they're in line with what would be expected and if there's any red flags or outliers then you can be like basically fired as a judge. Thankfully that's never happened to me. And then every year we have like a a re education basically run through all the judging criteria again if there's been any updates and then you learn by doing basically. So yeah, that's the process. Anything you got nothing to add I
- [79:15]
A
think is maybe there's going to be sometime in the future or maybe different countries they might have like a nomination process where judge has to be like nominated and then whatever. But essentially yes, exactly as as you said, I think where you know you, you get selected or you get nominated, get a training process, go through a shadowing judge period and then go from there. So yeah, no, nothing.
- [79:40]
B
Didn't know about the, the nomination. Yeah that'd be interesting if they do that here because then I can nominate you.
- [79:46]
A
Yeah, I'd love that. But hopefully one day.
- [79:49]
B
JordanCooper_ PT asks, what's something you believed made a great coach when you started coaching that you now realize matters far less than you thought?
- [80:01]
A
Oh, that's a good question. Oh, I'm struggling to be honest. I. Because can I answer this the opposite way? I know this is not what you asked Jordan, but. But I would say that empathy matters the most. Like, I think having empathy and having good emotional intelligence and caring about the client matters probably one of the most. I think that's one of the best foundations that you can have. I then also think after that, you know, the knowing some of the. Again, knowing that, having that underlying knowledge about, you know, training, nutrition, etc. I think that probably comes second. So, yeah, I don't know. Actually, I think probably some of those harder skills maybe, I think they can kind of be learned along the way potentially. So. Yeah. So I think maybe the hardest skills are kind of maybe potential. As long as you have a certain baseline level to begin with. I think that as long as you've got that, you know, baseline level, I think everything else probably matters a lot less. And as long as you've got that caring empathy side, that emotional intelligence creating your systems along the way probably comes. So, yeah, sorry, that was probably a really poor answer.
- [81:35]
B
I have a quick one.
- [81:36]
A
Yeah.
- [81:37]
B
Fancy spreadsheets are an app. Oh, no, I'm saying as in, I'm saying that's my answer. I used to think fancy spreadsheets or like a really in depth app was important. But as long as you have a system in place and you're a good coach with lots of experience and empathy, that's what matters. So.
- [81:56]
A
Yeah, just.
- [81:57]
B
That's my answer.
- [81:58]
A
Yeah, no, and that is funny because I was actually thinking that like I'm terrible, like my, like I'm not great with a spreadsheet but you know, I've gotten better, so. No, I totally agree.
- [82:09]
B
Cool.
- [82:10]
A
All right. So Alex the funk asks for sleep.
- [82:15]
B
Sleep.
- [82:15]
A
Does it matter if I drink, say 55M Monster caffeine servings, even if they are all early to mid morning.
- [82:24]
B
I'm com. I don't know how much caffeine he's suggesting he's having there. Do you 50. I don't know what that. Exactly.
- [82:32]
A
No idea.
- [82:32]
B
Yeah, but what I will say is it's not just timing of caffeine, it is quantity of caffeine. Similar to if someone was like, it's not just quantity of caffeine, it's also the timing of caffeine. So you just want to for most individuals trying to stay below 2 to 3 milligrams per kilo and getting that done like 8 to 10 hours before bedtime. If you're doing that then you're probably okay, but then you can assess it in real time, right?
- [82:58]
A
Yeah, totally.
- [82:59]
B
So not a big deal. Should I ask you the next one from my man Jake? Fit as hell. You can eat anything you want on a bulk and not gain any unnecessary fat or eat anything while cutting and still lose fat. Which are you choosing?
- [83:14]
A
I would say yeah, I think I might go with the latter where you can eat anything while cutting and still lose fat. I think yeah, I think that's quite an easy one. Jake, thanks for that
- [83:27]
B
final question. Shall I ask you this one as well? I'm just gonna ask you.
- [83:30]
A
Yeah.
- [83:31]
B
Aaron Henriksen Baxter asked nutrient timing how to fuel for a 5:30 training session. 35 sets during cut and maintenance. Struggling with hunger. But it's a good question for you because you might end up going through something similar.
- [83:44]
A
Indeed. So I think probably the biggest thing here, Erin is thinking of something like an intra workout shake. I, I would personally say it might be the biggest thing again when we think about it is training is probably one of the most important things here even during a cut or maintenance. And so making sure that, that, that peri workout nutrition is as good as you can make it both in terms of number one, making sure you're not hungry whilst you're training and to making sure that you're sufficiently fueled. So if you are cutting and you're slightly glycogen depleted, that's when maybe you know, performance might be affected. So I would personally say, you know, depending on the proximity of when you wake up to getting to training, I would probably start to experiment with either. Can, can you afford any liquid carbohydrates potentially with creatine and having that as a drink that you can then sip on whilst you're training. You could then experiment with like a carb mouthwash if not or even just having something flavored or again potentially if your digestion system tolerates it, maybe some sort of like a light like half a banana or a light piece of fruit even though that's going to be a little bit more, more potentially liver glycogen maybe. I think that's still going to tick the boxes of starting to hydrate you a little bit, having something to eat that just satisfies a little bit of hunger and then also kind of having a Bit of easy digestive carbohydrate, I think. So that would be kind of my initial thoughts. I don't know if I've missed anything or if you've got anything you'd add there.
- [85:26]
B
Yeah. The only thing is I'm wondering when they're struggling with their hunger. Hunger?
- [85:31]
A
Yeah.
- [85:31]
B
Because if they're struggling with hunger during the workout, that's a little bit different. Struggling with it later in the day. Because if it's later in the day, then liquid calories then might not be ideal for them. But if it's during the session, then having some sugary, like, beverage during the session can actually keep blood sugar higher. It can actually help kind of crush hunger a little bit there, I think. Think some fruit. That recommendation's great because you get the fiber there that. Yeah, there's going to be some. What's it called? Fructose, but there's also plenty of available kind of muscle glycogen potentially. And also you're not really. You're mostly having that as like blood sugar to help concentration during the session and then also just fiber. That's going to be something in your stomach slowing down digestion. So as long as it doesn't bloat you, which I doubt it would if you're dieting and don't know. You're just so empty all the time. So it does some. I think your main question also is like, yeah, you're training at 5:30, but how. When do you wake up then? How much can you have a full meal before you go train? Sometimes what I do, if I'm training early and I want to have something just light before, I'll do something just like some yogurt and some like berries, something along those lines. Like, it's light but it's still slower digesting a bit thicker and also like this fiber there. So. So, yeah, that's just some of my thoughts. I guess it's. Yeah. Tricky without knowing when the hunger's kicking in and how then to battle that.
- [87:04]
A
Yeah. I think again, the key thing I. I would lean on is as long as you're not hungry during the training session itself, that's probably the most important thing. And then you can kind of troubleshoot the other stuff as and when you need to. So. Yeah.
- [87:20]
B
Yeah. And I think, yeah, because if hunger isn't an issue during the session, you could theoretically go in fasted and just eat quite soon afterwards. But that is, there's not a problem so long as you can perform like that or like you said, just have that intra workout and that's all you've had and then you have a post workout at some point afterwards and it doesn't have to be anything outrageous. It could be 10 as 10 grams of like dextrose. Just something.
- [87:44]
A
Exactly.
- [87:45]
B
Or just an apple. Like just something in your system might be better than. Is likely better than nothing.
- [87:50]
A
Yeah, I, I, sometimes I've, I've done that once or twice before where I've literally just had half a banana and that's all I've needed just for that last half or last three quarters of the session. It's just quelled that little bit of hunger or quelled that little bit of a sort of like drop and then I'm just good to go and finish then, you know, that's nothing in the grand scheme of things. Yeah.
- [88:12]
B
Awesome. We made it through all the questions. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you for, for indulging us with the WNBF UK and running through all the kind of overall winners there. Hopefully that was interesting. If you did manage to only listen. I imagine it was a bit boring, but it couldn't be the end of the world anyway without me rambling on and on and on. As a reminder, we're online coaches, so if you are interested in help to the stage, whether it be your first time or you're looking to earn that pro card, as mentioned, we've just done both in this episode and, and we're happy to help with that. If you just want to get fitter, stronger, healthier again, we're here to be able to help. You can check out Coaching linked in the description that will have an overview of what you can expect from the coaching, how it's set up, the communication, all of that. And then you can apply for a consultation or you can apply for a kind of consult overview where we'll just do a video recording, going over your application and talking about how we might be able to help. That'd be great.
- [89:11]
A
Great.
- [89:11]
B
Otherwise, all that good stuff. Comment, subscribe and we appreciate you and we'll catch you in the next episode.
- [89:18]
A
Yeah, thank you so much, guys. See you later.