Podcast
The Inverted Podcast
Hosted by Inverted Product Management Group on LinkedIn · EN
This podcast series explores topics related to the creation and use of product in the areas of Security, privacy, online safety, infrastructure security etc. We call these people Inverted Product people because the primary goals for these product people are somehow inverted: success is "when nothing happens". There are fundamental differences in metrics, strategies, personas, communication, and road mapping from the ones of “traditional product teams”
10episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Inverted Podcast #23: Recovery- The Most Dangerous Feature You're Ignoring
2w ago00:40:22Tap to summarizeIn this episode of the Inverted Podcast, we dive into one of the most overlooked — and risky — aspects of modern digital systems: account recovery.Joined by security expert Dean H. Saxe, the conversation explores why recovery isn’t just a backup feature, but often the weakest link in your entire authentication system. From real-world examples of compromised accounts to the surprising ways attackers exploit recovery flows, the team breaks down how even the most secure login systems can fail.You’ll hear insights on:➡️ Why account recovery should be treated as a first-class security feature, not an afterthought➡️ How attackers exploit weak recovery processes instead of breaking strong authentication➡️ The trade-offs between security, privacy, and accessibility when designing recovery systems➡️ The real business impact of poor recovery experiences — from lost users to increased costs➡️ Emerging approaches like passkeys, digital credentials, and identity verification➡️ Practical advice for both product teams and everyday users to stay protectedBeyond the technical details, this episode highlights the human side of recovery — from frustrated users locked out of their accounts to the real-life consequences of losing access to your digital identity.If you enjoyed this conversation, don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share for more episodes on security, privacy, cyber abuse, spam, and building better “inverted” products.Connect with the hosts and guests with comments on the video or on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧 Listen, learn, and join the conversation! 🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio or our website, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. Check out our 🌐website: https://invertedpm.com/✅ Like 👍 and Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management! ✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#securitypm #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #hacked #AI #AIsecurity #aigovernance #cybersecurity podcast #tech podcast series #cybersecurity podcasts #cybersecurity podcasts for professionals #technology podcasts #technology podcast #productivity podcasts #startup #cloudsecuritypodcast Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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Inverted Podcast #22: Become Incorruptible with Eric Ries
May 2600:59:33Tap to summarizeWhat makes a company truly incorruptible? In this special episode of the Inverted Podcast, Jeroen, Dana, and Dario sit down with legendary entrepreneur and The Lean Startup author Eric Ries to explore the ideas behind his new book, "Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great" Together, they unpack why some companies stay true to their values while others slowly compromise under pressure from investors, incentives, and short-term thinking. Eric shares powerful stories from companies like Costco, Cloudflare, and Anthropic, explaining how trust, governance, and long-term purpose can become real competitive advantages—not just ideals.The conversation also dives into why security, privacy, and safety are often the first things sacrificed in profit-driven environments, and why building them into a company’s DNA from the beginning matters more than ever. If you care about building products, companies, or systems that people can truly trust, this episode is for you.In this episode, we cover:➡️The deeper meaning behind The Lean Startup➡️Why speed without long-term thinking can be dangerous➡️The core ideas in Eric Ries’s new book, Incorruptible➡️How companies like Costco and Cloudflare turned principles into strength➡️Why security, privacy, and safety are essential to trustworthy businesses➡️How founders, employees, and even job candidates can spot incorruptible organizationsYou can find Eric's new book "Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great" here:https://www.amazon.com/Incorruptible-Shape-Companies-That-Stand/dp/B0FWZZBPZBAnd at the website: https://www.incorruptible.co/If you enjoyed this conversation, don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share for more episodes on security, privacy, cyber abuse, spam, and building better “inverted” products.Connect with the hosts and guests with comments on the video or on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧 Listen, learn, and join the conversation! 🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio or our website, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. Check out our 🌐website: https://invertedpm.com/✅ Like 👍 and Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management! ✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#securitypm #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #hacked #AI #AIsecurity #aigovernance #cybersecurity podcast #tech podcast series #cybersecurity podcasts #cybersecurity podcasts for professionals #technology podcasts #technology podcast #productivity podcasts #startup #cloudsecuritypodcast Spotify: Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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Inverted Podcast #21: AI Regulations & Humans in the Loop
Apr 3000:38:50Tap to summarizeHow Do You Build AI Products That Are Compliant Before It’s Too Late?In this special episode of the Inverted podcast, host Dario Salice sits down with Dexter Awoyemi, an independent AI systems architect working at the intersection of AI, regulation, and product design. Together, they explore what it really means to build AI systems responsibly—before compliance becomes a painful afterthought.Dexter introduces his philosophy of “clarity before code”, arguing that teams should start with intent, risk classification, and human oversight rather than jumping straight into models and frameworks. The conversation dives deep into the EU AI Act, including how turning complex regulations into executable knowledge graphs can help product and engineering teams reason about their obligations without reading hundreds of pages of legal text.You’ll hear a candid discussion about:➡️ Why human-in-the-loop is a non‑negotiable requirement for AI systems—and how it affects UX, auditability, and accountability➡️ Common mistakes teams make when applying AI to complex reasoning and regulatory interpretation➡️ How compliance, security, and product teams can collaborate earlier instead of acting as late-stage gatekeepers➡️ What product teams should focus on first: risk classification, observability, and designing for failure modes➡️ Why AI regulation, much like GDPR, is likely to become the global default—and why early compliance is not wasted workThis episode is especially valuable for product managers, engineers, and founders building AI-powered products in regulated or soon-to-be-regulated environments who want to avoid expensive rewrites, organizational friction, and downstream risk.If you’re interested in real-world security strategies, AI security, zero trust, and the evolving challenges facing media organizations, this episode is a must-listen. Connect with the hosts and guests with comments on the video or on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧 Listen, learn, and join the conversation! 🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio or our website, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. Check out our 🌐website: https://invertedpm.com/✅ Like 👍 and Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management! ✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM Linked In Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#securitypm #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #hacked #AI #AIsecurity #aigovernance #cybersecurity podcast #tech podcast series #cybersecurity podcasts #cybersecurity podcasts for professionals #technology podcasts #technology podcast #productivity podcastsMusic by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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Inverted Podcast #20 — Targeted Attacks: Protecting High‑Risk People and Organizations
Apr 1500:37:10Tap to summarize🎙️ Inverted Podcast #20 — Targeted Attacks: Protecting High‑Risk People and Organizations 🎙️What does it really mean to be a high‑risk user—and how are targeted attacks different from everyday phishing and scams?In this episode of the Inverted Podcast, Jeroen Kemperman is joined by co-hosts Dario Salice and Dana Kaufman, with special guest Mike Sager, to break down the world of targeted cyberattacks. Together, they explore how activists, journalists, political candidates, founders, and other high‑value individuals are targeted by well‑resourced adversaries—and why conventional security advice often falls short for these groups.The conversation dives into how nation‑states, organized crime, and sophisticated attackers operate differently from “drive‑by” attackers, investing time and resources to research their targets, craft personalized lures, and escalate attacks until they succeed. The panel discusses real‑world examples like political campaigns, advocacy organizations, journalists, and small consulting teams that become critical entry points for attackers—often without the resources of large enterprises.The episode also looks at how AI and data leakage are changing the threat landscape, making highly personalized social‑engineering attacks faster, cheaper, and more scalable than ever before. As the panel explains, techniques that once required days or weeks of effort can now be performed in hours—dramatically expanding who can be targeted and how.From a product and platform perspective, the discussion turns to what builders can do to better protect high‑risk users. Drawing on experience with programs like Google’s Advanced Protection Program, panel discusses raising the security baseline, giving users ways to opt into stronger protections, being opinionated about defaults, and balancing security with usability so protections don’t get turned off.The episode wraps with practical advice for individuals who believe they may be targeted—ranging from using hardware security keys, to seeking help from trusted organizations, to developing a mindset of verification and healthy skepticism.If you’re building products for real people—or you worry that you or your users might be a high‑value target—this episode offers clear, grounded insights on how to think about security when failure really matters.If you’re interested in real-world security strategies, zero trust, and the evolving challenges facing media organizations, this episode is a must-listen. Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧 Listen, learn, and join the conversation! 🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio or our website, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. Check out our 🌐website: https://invertedpm.com/✅ Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management! ✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#securitypm #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #hacked #compromised Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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The Inverted Podcast #19: The Experience of Getting Hacked
Mar 3000:41:02Tap to summarizeIn this compelling episode of The Inverted Podcast, host Jeroen Kemperman is joined by co-hosts Dario Salice and Dana Kaufman, along with special guest Olivia, a travel content creator based in Switzerland. Olivia bravely shares her firsthand experience of being hacked—a story that highlights the real-world risks faced by digital creators and the importance of robust online security.Listeners will hear Olivia recount how a targeted phishing email, disguised as a legitimate collaboration request from a well-known brand, led to her Google and YouTube accounts being compromised. Despite having multiple layers of security, including two-factor authentication and backup recovery keys, Olivia describes how the attacker swiftly removed her access and the emotional impact of watching her accounts slip away in real time.The episode explores:The tactics used by hackers to exploit creators’ excitement and trustThe limitations of current recovery methods and security featuresThe critical lessons learned about digital vigilance and account protectionPractical advice for creators and product builders to improve security and user empathyOlivia’s story is a powerful reminder that even well-informed users can fall victim to sophisticated attacks. The hosts discuss how platforms and users alike can adapt to evolving threats, and Olivia offers actionable tips for anyone managing important online accounts.Be sure to check out Olivia's travel content on:📱https://www.instagram.com/olliechinny📱https://www.youtube.com/olliechinnyTune in for an honest, insightful conversation that will help you rethink your own digital security practices and inspire product teams to build safer, more empathetic experiences.If you’re interested in real-world security strategies, zero trust, and the evolving challenges facing media organizations, this episode is a must-listen. Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧Listen, learn, and join the conversation!🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. ✅ Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management!✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#SecurityPM #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #hacked #compromised Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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Inverted Podcast #18: Digital Legacy - Will You Continue to Live as AI, After You Die?
Mar 1100:37:14Tap to summarize🎙️ Inverted Podcast #18: Digital Legacy – Will You Continue to Live as AI After You Die?What happens to your digital life when you’re gone?In this episode of the Inverted Podcast, the hosts explore the emerging and deeply human topic of "digital legacy"—the data, accounts, and digital identities we leave behind when we die or become incapacitated. From locked email accounts and smart homes behaving strangely, to AI systems trained on your data that may continue acting “as you,” the conversation reveals just how unprepared most of us—and most companies—are for this reality.Joining the discussion is Dean H. Saxe, Principal Security Engineer at Remitly and a longtime identity expert, who shares his work with the OpenID Foundation’s "Death in the Digital Estate" community group. Together, the group unpacks what a digital estate really includes, why consent and access matter, and how poor handling of digital legacy can reopen emotional wounds, create security risks, or even lead to unintended impersonation after death.The episode also dives into:Real-world examples of digital legacy gone wrongThe rise of AI and unintentional “digital immortality”Why companies should treat death as a core product scenario—not an edge caseDelegated access vs. impersonation models for account managementThe role governments could play in validating death and incapacity digitallyPractical steps individuals can take today to better manage their digital estateThis is a thoughtful, sometimes unsettling, and often practical conversation about identity, security, and what it means to exist digitally—both during life and after it.👉 Links mentioned in the episode, including the new OpenID Foundation paper and additional resources, can be found below.➡️Why digital estates need standards, and why we need them now: https://openid.net/why-digital-estates-need-standards-and-why-we-need-them-now/➡️The Unfinished Digital Estate paper: https://openid.net/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/The-Unfinished-Digital-Estate-Final.pdf➡️OpenID - Death and the Digital Estate (DADE) Community Group (get involved): https://openid.net/cg/death-and-the-digital-estate/If you’re interested in real-world security strategies, zero trust, and the evolving challenges facing media organizations, this episode is a must-listen.💥Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!💥🎧Listen, learn, and join the conversation!🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. ✅ Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management!✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.➡️Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#SecurityPM #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #hacked #compromised #AIMusic by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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Inverted PM Podcast #17: Bug Bounties - The Inverted Podcast Live!
Mar 500:30:53Tap to summarizeJoin the hosts of The Inverted Podcast for our first ever in-person recording as they dive into the world of bug bounty programs with special guest Marcel Eyer from GoBugFree in Zurich. In this episode, the team discusses the evolution of bug bounty platforms, the importance of external security testing, and the challenges companies face when deciding between public and private bounty programs. You’ll hear real-world insights on triaging bug reports, managing researcher relationships, and the pressures of timely vulnerability disclosure.The conversation explores how bug bounty programs fit into broader security strategies, their role in building developer skills, and the impact of AI and cloud technologies on vulnerability trends. The hosts also tackle the business side—how companies measure return on investment, set expectations for zero-day discoveries, and foster a thriving community of ethical hackers.Whether you’re a security professional, developer, or just curious about how organizations protect their software, this episode offers practical advice, industry anecdotes, and a look at the future of bug hunting. Tune in to learn why bug bounty programs are not just about finding bugs—they’re about building safer products, smarter teams, and stronger communities.Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧Listen, learn, and join the conversation!🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. ✅ Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management!✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#SecurityPM #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #businessmodelcanvas Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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The Inverted Podcast #16: Unorthodox Security
Feb 1700:39:22Tap to summarizeIn this episode, the Inverted Podcast dives deep into the unconventional world of cybersecurity with special guest Olivier Martinet, Chief Information and Security Officer of TX Group—the largest private media group in Switzerland. Hosts Jeroen, Dario Salice, and Dana Kaufman explore how TX Group balances modern security practices with the unique demands of a media organization, from protecting critical infrastructure to embracing digital transformation.Discover why Olivier Martinet aims to make his company “unattractive to hackers,” focusing on detection and rapid response rather than strict prevention. The episode covers TX Group’s journey to passwordless authentication, adaptive MFA, and cloud-first strategies, as well as their approach to training journalists for safe exploration of the dark web.The conversation also tackles controversial decisions, such as investing in defense over cyber insurance, collaborating with competitors for industry-wide security, and managing supply chain vulnerabilities in ad networks. Learn how TX Group turns security incidents into opportunities for transparency and trust, and why the ultimate metric is damage containment rather than incident count.If you’re interested in real-world security strategies, zero trust, and the evolving challenges facing media organizations, this episode is a must-listen. Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn for more insights!Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧Listen, learn, and join the conversation!🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. ✅ Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management!✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#SecurityPM #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #businessmodelcanvas Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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The Inverted Podcast #15: The Business Model Canvas for Security - Part 2
Feb 300:44:18Tap to summarizeIn the second part of this special two-episode series, the hosts of the Inverted podcast continue their deep dive into how the Business Model Canvas applies to security products and companies. Building on the foundation set in part one, this episode explores the practical challenges and strategic decisions that security businesses face as they scale, partner, and evolve. Key topics include:Recap of the Business Model Canvas and its relevance to securityThe importance of trust, transparency, and ongoing customer relationships in security Scaling strategies: cloud marketplaces, reseller networks, and partnershipsManaging costs, pricing models, and the impact of AI on business operationsNavigating regulatory requirements and the elevated security bar for vendorsMonetizing core knowledge and threat intelligence Adapting business models for embedding, acquisition, and changing market needsThe slides referenced in this episode can be found here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vSHZNmpfvpwGORtsTWdn-3ZR-JAISyO1kO-ydqlqWNkswJaDVSaQ9OYBllOQwW23zUgBDuKPbw0v_Nn/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=60000Whether you’re a founder, product manager, or simply interested in the intersection of business strategy and security, this episode offers actionable insights and engaging discussion. Don’t miss the conclusion of this in-depth exploration of the Security Business Model Canvas!Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧Listen, learn, and join the conversation!🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. ✅ Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management!✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#SecurityPM #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #businessmodelcanvas Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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The Inverted Podcast #14: The Business Model Canvas for Security - Part 1
Feb 300:41:10Tap to summarizeThis is part one of a special two-episode series where the hosts of the Inverted podcast explore how the Business Model Canvas—a strategic framework for visualizing and designing business models—applies to both traditional companies and the world of security products. The conversation begins with an overview of the nine building blocks of the canvas, illustrated through real-world examples like LEGO, and then pivots to a deep dive into the unique challenges faced by security businesses.Key topics include:What is the Business Model Canvas and how does it help structure ideas for startups and established companies?How LEGO leverages partnerships, customer segments, and channels for growth and brand loyalty.The importance of trust, transparency, and scaling for security products, including the shift from detection to prevention and remediation.Strategies for building customer relationships, leveraging cloud marketplaces, and demonstrating value to enterprise clients.Lively debates on direct-to-consumer vs. enterprise sales, the evolution of security products, and how to build lasting trust with customers.The slides referenced in this episode can be found here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vSHZNmpfvpwGORtsTWdn-3ZR-JAISyO1kO-ydqlqWNkswJaDVSaQ9OYBllOQwW23zUgBDuKPbw0v_Nn/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=60000Whether you’re a founder, product manager, or simply curious about business frameworks and security, this episode is packed with practical insights and engaging discussion. Stay tuned for part two, where the team continues building out the Security Business Model Canvas for the fictitious security company!Connect with the hosts and guests on LinkedIn to continue the conversation!🎧Listen, learn, and join the conversation!🎧Find us on LinkedIn, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music/Audible, iHeartRadio, and leave a message with your thoughts or questions. ✅ Subscribe for more deep dives into the world of inverted product management!✅ 🔗 Join the conversation in the Inverted Product Management community on LinkedIn.Inverted PM LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12902712/#SecurityPM #ProductManagement #riskmanagement #risk #Cybersecurity #InvertedPM #TrustAndSafety #security #abuseprevention #userexperience #businessmodelcanvas Music by: BensoundLicense code: KQNVJHTWQEBEDSEA
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